TODAY: The Nationals aren’t planning to increase their offer beyond $440MM, The Washington Post’s Jesse Dougherty writes. Soto is reportedly looking for a deal that is at least a decade long, gives him the most guaranteed money in baseball history, and gives him an AAV at least close to the highest average annual values. In a Twitter thread, Dougherty suggests that the Nats could come closer to Soto’s demands by offering $440MM over 12 or 13 years rather than 15, though that scenario might not be palatable to the Nationals for luxury tax reasons.
JULY 16, 3:04PM: While the Nationals’ offer didn’t have any deferred money, the $440MM was “heavily backloaded” into the offer’s last six seasons, USA Today’s Bob Nightengale reports. The offer’s backloaded nature played a part in Soto’s decision, according to Jon Heyman of The New York Post, and other factors included the relatively low AAV and the uncertainty surrounding the Nats’ ownership situation.
11:21AM: In a somewhat shocking development, the Washington Nationals will now listen to trade offers for transcendent superstar Juan Soto, per the Athletic’s Ken Rosenthal. Soto reportedly rejected a $440MM extension offer, prompting the change of heart on the Nationals’ part.
The Nationals have long held the position that they would not be open to trading Soto, their 23-year-old superstar, who is already firmly listed among the best hitters in baseball. The Nationals have some time to make a decision, as Soto is under team control for another two seasons beyond this one. As of right now, however, the team is among the worst in baseball, and their farm system continues to be understocked.
All that said, the Nats have made consistent efforts to come to a contract extension with Soto’s agent Scott Boras, with no success. According to Rosenthal, the latest such offer – the third offer from the Nationals’ side – was for 15 years and a total of $440MM. Perhaps more shocking than the number itself is that the Nats did not include any deferred money in the deal. The Nationals are well known for deferring money in most of their long-term deals. That they were willing to avoid that practice shows some bend on the Nats’ part, but it was not enough to consummate a deal.
If those numbers are correct, the Nats’ offer would have given Soto an AAV of $29.33MM over that 15-year span, which falls a little shy of some of the game’s top contracts. While that’s nothing to scoff at, it would not be a record-setting number. The total dollar amount would, however, top MLB’s largest contracts.
The deal would have carried Soto through to his 38th birthday, effectively locking him in as a National for the entirety of his career. It’s certainly a large chunk of money to offer, but Soto might not be so ready to put a cap on his career earnings – even such a lofty one. Soto is currently making $17.1MM this season, with another two arbitration raises yet to come in his final two seasons. If he stays healthy, he’ll easily make more than $29.33MM AAV by his final season before free agency.
With their latest offer rejected, the Nats will now spend the next couple of weeks listening to trade offers for Soto ahead of the August 2nd trade deadline. Certainly, given the team control remaining, the Nationals would have to be floored by an offer in order to move him. The likelihood of a deal at this juncture still feels slim. An offseason deal is more likely. Still, interested parties now have a couple of weeks to begin making headway.
It’s difficult to fathom what exactly it would take to pry Soto loose from the Nationals. No matter what the return package, it’s sure to seem light in the eyes of local fans. Soto is the lone superstar and fan attraction at this point. The club has seen the departure of organizational mainstays like Max Scherzer, Trea Turner, and Ryan Zimmerman in the past calendar year alone. Without Soto, the club would be starting from scratch, especially given the state of the farm system. A player of Soto’s stature does not come along frequently, and it’s unlikely they could recoup anywhere close to equal value for Soto.
For the Nationals to deal him, they have to really believe they have no chance of signing him to a long-term contract extension. Perhaps this latest rejection makes that point for them. From the outside, there are certainly ways in which the Nats could improve their offer, namely with a larger AAV, which does seem to be something that matters to players. They have, as is often pointed out, crossed this bridge with Boras before, both in signing Stephen Strasburg to a long-term deal, and in not coming to terms with players like Bryce Harper and Anthony Rendon.
Complicating matters on both sides is the uncertain future of the Nats’ ownership situation. If the Lerners do, in fact, plan on selling the club, keeping Soto on the roster would seem to be positive, almost necessary. A new ownership group would likely rather have Soto than whatever handful of prospects would come back in a deal. And yet, Soto might be disinclined to commit to a new ownership group. How much can the team be sold for if part of the deal necessitates giving Soto more than $440MM? And yet, the franchise has to be far less attractive to potential buyers without Soto as a marketing centerpiece. How intent the Lerners are in selling the Nats might be the crux of this entire situation.
In many ways, it’s reasonable to expect an end to this saga – one way or the other – by the beginning of next season. Unlike a situation like, say, the Cubs had with Kris Bryant, the Nats have no hope of contending at this present moment, which might make them less inclined to suffer the constant trade rumors. When the Cubs held onto Bryant through years of rumors, they were, at least, competitive year-by-year, giving them cause to hold onto Bryant, even if it meant seeing him walk as a free agent. For the Nationals, Soto’s future is the only story in DC until it gets resolved.
For now, it’s going to be a tense couple of weeks for Nats’ fans as they await the trade deadline. Even if Soto stays beyond August 2nd, the trade rumors are going to continue to swirl. The Nationals have to be wondering if Soto’s uncertain future is a tenable situation. If they can’t find the right deal, however, they need to be willing to wait.
Steve Cohen on line 1…….
Rather Soto than Judge, who will be injured for 40% of his next contract. Get it done Uncle Stevie. Baty, Mauricio, Butto, Ziegler should get the convo started…
As a Mets fan I’m telling you you better add more
The one team who could have the parts could be the Jays
I agree 100% but no way Jays can afford, Vlad, Bo and Soto in a couple years. By trading for Soto you would have to let Bichette walk or trade him
You would have to trade vlad or Bo as part of a Soto trade
Jays likely wouldn’t be able to keep Vlad and Bo, with the prospects that are near MLB ready, Bo seems the most likely to get traded anyway. I know this will sound hypocritical of myself but maybe ownership will be willing to spend on Soto and Vlad instead, while having Martinez play short
You have highly overrated Bo.
Did the author of the article have to copy the headline verbatim from The Athletic?
It’s not really a big deal since for the most part all this site does is accumulate other sites’ stories.
Padres could afford the prospects, and with myers coming in off the books, hosmer drops to 13m, several other veterans coming off. They may be able to handle it
I’d say the other San team in the NL West would be a more likely pick as a trade partner. Luciano, Matus and Ramus would be a good starting point.
Or the Yankees: they have the 9th most valuable farm, and the teams ahead of them are already calling up their prospects.
I agree. I’d trade Bo.
hundreds of jays fans just unloaded with those comments. let alone the news that Soto is available….lol
Left power bat. oh boy cue the comments…
Baseball is a team game and other than for a front line starter like Scherzer or Verlander in their prime, these megabuck long term deals never work out. Take any team and evaluate not just the player and the players needed going the other way but what about what Soto type money can do to fill out the roster?
To get Soto I’d trade Vlad. He’s fat and plays first. His body will begin to breakdown because of the weight by age 30. Trade Vlad at his apex which is now, he won’t get better unless he gets smaller. Outfielders with the whole package are really tough to get you can always find a serviceable first baseman though. Vlad and a couple top tier prospects. Blue Jay’s payroll wouldn’t go drastically higher either and they would still be able to look for pitching.
He’ll be a rental in Toronto.
More than half for position players work out. If they didn’t, teams would not make them.
Rodgers sports network wouldn’t be able to??
Betts is the only mega player to win a world series as a position player, these big contracts just don’t work out for most teams!
Glad you and the other 3 Jays fans who agreed with you by giving a thumbs up think so……whats you pipeline into Rizzo’s house that tells you exactly who and what he. would only want in the Jays organization say about this in more detail please!
@king – so was Babe Ruth.
Lars, you’re here reading and commenting, so you must find value in the site.
@Al Hirschen- and why not the Yankees? Dominguez, Peraza, Schmidt, Pereira, Waldichuk, Wesneski, and Aaron Hicks, seems like an excellent trade for both teams.
Cap, the Nats’ have no use for Hicks.
@gbs42- sure they do. He can play the outfield until Dominguez is ready. They can take on the few years on his contract. Then the Yankees sign Mr. Soto for 12 years, $540 million. ($45 million annually) and a club option for a 13th season.
@Al Hirschen- no way the Nationals are trading Soto to a team in the NL East. It’s definitely not happening sir.
Not sure I’d trade Vlad straight up for him considering what you’ll have tp pay Soto. Swapping out one mega star for another doesn’t make them that much improved.
Vlad is far from a mega-star…have you looked at his stats lately? Did you see he had a ball TWICE go thru the webbing of his glove because he doesn’t know how to take care of it??? That’s something only seen in Little League. And he needs to lay off the tacos.
Vlad is better than Soto
It’s impossible to say which one will have the better career. Still, Soto has been the better player so far.
@Padam Remember Prince Fielder….That is whom Vlad reminds me of…was awesome like his dad for a few years then got injury problems because he was fat, got fatter with time off and lost the ability to hit and became an albatross contract. Vlad is still too damn big, Babe wasn’t as big as these boys and the pitchers also did not throw 97+ consistently with movement in Babe’s day. So in Babe’s day very few people were working out training you can’t get away with that now.
ARod did also..
Lars, you must be such a research whiz.
bucs… You must’ve skimmed their headlines cause if you’re subscribing to the Athletic and not this site, you’re over paying.
This whole site is a copy and paste. It has no real journalism but that is pretty much every site besides the athletic
marte, in what way is Vlad better than Soto?
Zaidi will never agree to take on a Soto contract ($$$$ and years) nor give up Luciano, Matos and Ramos.
Zaidi doesn’t want a superstar player. He would rather have platoon players and continue dumpster diving.
Jordan, you must just read the headlines or maybe the first paragraph. The writers here dig into many transactions in a lot more detail than just copy and paste.
No, but they do work out in making 100s of millions for the team in profit. And that’s why they keep making them
@dewey This is common belief amongst fans, and you have a point, but when doing deep dives, I think these mega contracts actually work out about 50% of the time. Of course you’re going to get underperforming stars at the end of these contracts, but was the front end worth it? That’s really the debate.
So why pay for underperformance? Why not just sign contracts that aren’t overpays? Why fall into the myth that every team needs one such contract in order to win? Sure, if you convince yourself that overpaying for performance is ok, then you’ll think these deals work out.
Cosmo, teams underpay for overperformance the first 6-7 years of a player’s MLB career. Why not just pay them appropriately during those years? And the first few years of mega contracts tend to be underpays even at $30M+ per season. Why would anyone expect teams to “win” on every contract every season for every player?
Anyone but dodgers please im huge fan of t turner I’m hoping we can sign him long term which is gonna be very hard how can we think about signing him and giving Soto a deal like that I think he will go to one of the new york teams unless turners doesn’t resign and they know 100 percent he won’t them maybe dodger will be in if not they step out of trading for him
I don’t agree with the premise that they are underpaying in the first few years. Sounds like some sales pitch an agent is tossing about. I don’t buy it in the least, these players are payed PLENTY in the early years of these deals.
If you replace Hicks with Torres, then it may be a fair trade for both sides.
hi
Soto has been the better player? I don’t know about that.
Hard for me to believe that if Nationals offered $36 million per year (with a $3 million payment every month) that Soto would turn down a 12 years deal for $432 million with a player option for a 13 year at $8 million = $440 million.
Dodgers could offer Cartaya, Vargas, Busch, and Miller. That would get it done. But if Busch and Vargas replace Muncy and Justin Turner, and Cartaya is a backup catcher and DH in two years, I have to think Soto is not worth it, Sign Judge as a free agent to replace Trea Turner. Accept that fact that Judge will be a DH toward the end of the contract and may age poorly. Reap the benefits for the next half dozen years.
C Smith
1B Muncy/Busch
2B Lux/Taylor
SS Taylor/Lux
3B J. Turner/Rios/Vargas
OF Betts
OF Soto/Judge
OF Bellinger/Vargas/Free agent
P Urias
P Gonsolin
P Buehler if not injured
P May if not injured
P Kershaw if not retired
P Try to resign Anderson
Manny,
I think Bellinger is going to be non-tendered this winter. I can’t see the Dodgers being willing to pay him another $17M+ to hit this poorly again next year.
Congrats. Have never seen a 75 word sentence before. You should be proud.
So you are saying Alonso who literally made more in 2 days of the homerun derby than 5 years as a baseball player isnt underpaid? The MLB union has probably made more off his jersey sales last year than he had made in his career up to that point.
While they are taking steps to fund minor league players and pre arbitration players better and make the conditions better for them they are still not paying the better players the amount they are bringing back to the league.
Dodgers don’t need Soto. They need reinforcements in their rotation and bullpen.
That would be the first non-intentional walk for Bo
To be fair, I did say it would “get the convo started”. Definitely would require more, no doubt.
All I’m saying is, now that his contract demands are out there, there are very few teams that would be willing to give up assets AND pay for that contract. NYY, LAD, SF, NYM… maybe a few others?
Trade him, please trade him. That paycheck will drain many teams from improving. Folks, we’re talking $1/2 billion Someone please draw a line in the sand or BB will surely see it’s demise. It’s the Roman Empire all over again
Agreed. These ever increasing salaries are unsustainable. (And the low level workers are still underpaid).
The small market Padres have two $300 million deals and its not keeping them from improving. Every team in MLB can afford Soto. 14 teams have enough revenue to consistently field a $230 million per year payroll without effecting profitability .
Books is right…. Bargaining power is diminished when the player comes with Boras an a half a billion dollar bill… at this point he’s worth 2.5 years of expensive arbitration with no guarantee that he’ll sign…. 2/3 of the league has no interest paying players that make his arbitration
I recall well when some of the first players were paid one million per year, many said it was unsustainable. It seemed outrageous and a little preposterous at the time. I’m not sure there’s a ceiling. As long as the mega TV money is there, who knows how huge salaries will get.
He certainly isn’t worth 29 million a year
It’d be more like Alvarez, Baty, Mauricio, Ramirez…
It won’t be Boston, if anything they want to shorten contracts to have more flexibility you can check them off. I think a trade is made in the off season….Yankees will let Judge walk and they try to get Soto…Mets will get Aaron Judge this off-season. Yankees will replace Judge with Soto….
martevious, I agree. He’s worth a lot more than that.
Nonsense
It is keeping them from improving when one of them gets into a motorcycle accident, breaks a wrist and waits several months before getting it looked at.
You have to put guys around Soto too. The Angels prove that having 2 really good players and then 50 feet of crap isn’t a winning formula.
believe, Tatis didn’t “wait several months before getting it looked at.” Padres physicians couldn’t examine his wrist because of the lockout.
harambe, you mean like in 2019, when the Nationals won the World Series?
The 2019 Nationals had a pretty great team all around.
He said started!
Yeah, Alvarez would have to be in there too, but unless Soto can play multiple positions at the same time, I can’t see them completely depleting their farm while they already have some big contracts and will have to try to re-sign their own stats in the next couple years. Cohen may give the impression that he doesn’t care about the luxury tax but I can’t see him pushing closer and closer to a billion dollar payroll (at least over 2 or 3 seasons).
I’d be asking for Alvarez, Batty Vientos Peterson and you take Corbin
I don’t think Mets would do it
You going to have 2 young top prospect catchers on the same team? What do you do with Ruiz? Mauricio is more valuable to the nationals as they do not have a ss for the team as i believe they moved a 2nd baseman to cover ss.
Im curious to see if Soto / Boras may make a stink if Soto goes to a team that Soto name may not shine as bright like the angels with trout and ohtani, phillies with harper, judge with yankees, alonso lindor and scherzer with mets.
Ruiz has been a disappointment. Luis Garcia is a second baseman so you are right.
believe, Ruiz is a young catcher. It’s far too early to declare him a disappointment.
Can’t give up 5 prospects or more plus Soto wants $30-$40 mil a year, with big money players already and Alonso will soon make bigger money and they need to fix up the bullpen they can’t or shouldn’t sign another $30+ mil player
Whether the Mets should sign Soto (and Alonso) is a reasonable question, but they certain can afford to.
Maybe, but most of these proposals are ridiculous: 3, 4, 5 of the team’s best prospects for a 5-6 win DH who is already painfully slow, and for the privilege presumably of signing him until he’s nearly 40 to the most expensive contract in history?
Even that contract without all the talent leaving the team would be a ‘heads we lose, tails we break even’ sort of deal. Factor in the talent departing and it’s absurd.
Oh yeah 100% I’d take 1 Soto over 2 Judges.
Judge is the better player. So you’d take one worse player over two better players smh.
@zonedeads
Lol Soto is the consensus 2nd or 3rd best player in mlb. But sure go ahead and take your 30 year old injury prone outfielder over a 23 year old on base god who is a once in a lifetime player. You have to be trolling right?
Is he really though? I’d say he’s way overhyped
Judge, right now? Yes.
Judge, for the next 10-15 years? Not likely.
He’s only the 3rd best right fielder in his division how could he be the 2ndbest player in the league?
Lets look at the numbers.
30 yrs old and about to start declining in performance with a career 153 OPS+ and asking for 10/360
or
23 yrs old with a career 160 OPS+ and asking for 12-14 years with an AAV above $30 million
Both will be a DH within 3-4 years.
This is kind of a no brainer. Soto hits better and is 7 years younger.
And the person who actually brings the stats to prove their point wins!
Soto quite clearly wants Rendon AAV+
So you can’t really put 10/360 for Judge like it’s an insane number without mentioning Soto’s price tag is like likely 14/504
Both are equally gross…
I don’t have a dog in this fight, but looking at the numbers, I see a far more complex picture than you do. Judge’s number are more consistent whereas Soto’s number are not. Soto hit a really high peak in 2020, the short season, and has declined significantly in the last two seasons. From 2020 to 2022, his average is down .104, OBP down .085, SLG down .205, OPS down .290 and OPS+ down 57 points. Any GM has to wonder which Soto are they getting, 2020 or 2022, is it 2022 a blip or a downward trend, how much is his 2022 performance worth?
3rd best in his division? How high are you? Last full season he had a .465 OBP. You know how hard that is? And a 177 OPS+and he’s “overhyped”? Soto plays for a rival team and I still give him the respect he deserve. But yeah give me the “overhyped” “third best RF in his division” with the .465obp please. Jesus christ, he hasn’t even hit his prime years yet. Oh, and guess what? The “overhyped” Soto is improving on defense too. Last year Soto was in the 90th percenti
Soto, this year, isn’t a top-10 player in the league, and even at his best, he’s only a bat. He’s not great defensively. He’s not a great baserunner. His value lies in his ability to hit, and what’s he hitting right now–.240?
By fWar, Soto is the 52nd best player in the league this year.
Agreed. Siri is good but overrated.
His on base percentage is high because he walks a lot. He isn’t supposed to walk, he’s supposed to drive in runs.
His best year was 2019 when everyone was having career years. He hasn’t proven that he can be consistently good
SaintChris, an argument based on batting average – especially half a season of BA – is a weak argument. fWAR is better, but again, it half a season. He’s a 23-year-old stud hitter.
“He isn’t supposed to walk, he’s supposed to drive in runs.”
Is this Mary Brennaman? He said the same thing about Joey Votto, future Hall of Famer Joey Votto.
Soto walks a lot because he refuses to swing at bad pitches. When he gets a good pitch, he frequently crushes it. Seems like a pretty sound strategy.
“His best year was 2019.” Actually, that probably was his worst year, when he finished 9th in MVP voting. He’s been better than that, easily surpassing “consistently good” ever since.
Judge also has a stacked lineup in front and behind him. I don’t know who’s protecting Soto
He has no help around him. Put him on the Yankees, Dodgers, Mets, Padres…etc and his offensive numbers drastically improve.
Has anyone ever done a study to prove this theory that players generally get better according to the talent (lineup protection) around them? I think it’s way overblown.
Oh ok because his batting average is low? Like that matters when your getting on base over 40 percent of the time. This isn’t even a hot take on my part. Go to anyone’s channel on YouTube and look at top 50 players lists. Hell go watch a thousand different lists and come back here and tell me how many people have him out of there top 3. (If there is even one.) If you don’t take my word for it there is a million people telling you how wrong you are. Oh and let’s try to back your argument up with more than a half seasons sample size while complaining about BA, you silly man. And if we are playing the fwar game Soto had a higher fwar last season then the guy who won NL MVP.
You are not a very good judge of talent. Soto is 6.5 years younger and doesn’t have the injury history.
A “once in a lifetime player” who hasn’t even been as valuable, since he reached MLB, as Marcus Semien?
People don’t actually understand statistics, do they.
I’d take a jury of 12 over 2 Judges any day!
Guilty by over payment!
But yanks have judge and won’t have to trade 4 to 6 top prospects for him its tough to say that
That is a generous contract that if I was an owner I would never give it. With that being said, the Nationals should trade him and acquire some really good prospects in return.
Nats gave more to Strasburg.
No, Strasburg got 7/$245.
Did they really?
More AAV, not more $$$ overall in one deal.
Terrible idea. He’s 23, he has control left, he wants to stay, and he’s the centerpiece.
Man if 440 million dollars can’t convince him to stay, then let’s be real here: it was just the typical, predictable PR move to say “I want to stay here.”
It not the money. There is talk of the Nats being sold.
He wants to stay? Where did you get that idea? He has turned down two extension offers. That does not scream, I WANT TO STAY.
Google is your friend
Not that the Cardinals need him? But wouldn’t it be cool if they were able to swing a trade for Soto then deal from there Outfield depth for Brad Keller as well Francys01?
Hippyripper- Lol. Actually, we don’t need Soto. Why would we want Soto only to play in St Louis for a couple of seasons and then he will be a free agent. He is a looking for a mega contract and the Cards will not be fool giving that kind of contract. If we are to going to win a World Series in the next few seasons it will be without him. I don’t have no problem that Soto plays for the super team / Dodgers, Mets or even Yankees. Soto is a good hitter, but when it comes as a defender he is not as good. Hopefully, he doesn’t regret turning down a contract of 450 million.
440 million.
Yeah it would be cool for 1 or 2 years then it wouldn’t. Like ozuna for Alcantara and Gallen was cool but wasn’t now it lame as all get out
I do still like the idea of the Cardinals trading for Brad Keller
Yes, we gave a lot to acquire Ozuna from the Marlins. However, Ozuna played well for the Cards, but the hard part is now realizing that we needed to keep him and not trade him. Also, Gallen is very good too. Acquiring Keller From the Royals is not be a bad idea, but the Cards will probably focus on a rental like Chad Kuhl, Martin Perez, Jose Quintana, among others. Let’s see what they will do at the trade deadline.
Francys01: “Why would we want Soto only to play in St Louis for a couple of seasons?”
How about because it would significantly increase the Cardinals’ chances of winning the World Series? Seems like a pretty good reason to me.
I understand, but having superstars/ really great players don’t guarantee a World Series just look a few years ago when Detroit had Justin Verlander, Max Sherzer, Prince Fielder and of course Miguel Cabrera that he still plays for Detroit and that group didn’t win a World Series together. So, actually we don’t need Soto we have a farm of outfielders. No need to deplete the farm system to acquire Soto. For Soto getting a mega contract is more important than actually playing the sport which is not bad. Good luck for him, he can go and play for the super team.
Yeah they should offer him 1 billion maybe he will sign 440 million isn’t enough
That deal would to be astonishing for the Nats to want to see Soto 18 times a year in a Mets uni.
There changing that next year we will be playing the whole league
They probably going to ask for Vientos and Francisco Alvarez also.
That’s fine. I selfishly want to hang onto Alvarez and Allan because they are an immediate need for next year. I think the Mets view Vientos as an option later this year to DH and play some outfield, but for Soto you give him up.
I don’t think the Mets will pull it off, but it would be interesting.
That’s all they’re offering?
Welcome to the Yankees, Juan Soto!
No not really. I made a suggestion as a starting point up above. I was just responding to Dutch that I would hate to give up Alvarez or Allan, but everyone else would be available.
Baty or Mauricio, Butto, Ziegler and Vientos or Allan.
All that for a rental no way
Twins offer starting at Larnach and the entire AA team
@Ohyeadam You may not get Victor Robles with that offer let alone Soto.
@SMan. How about I throw in High A and Sano for Corbin, Bell and Harris
Even if the Twins could pull off a Soto trade, do they think they can sign Soto to an extension? If not, would they still be willing to part with the necessary young talent to acquire 2 1/2 years of Soto?
For once books has this right. Mets look like the top team to break the bank and deal top prospects. I could see the Yankees swooping in but Cashman loves to hug his top prospects. How does a guy reject $440 million?
Yeah, I really think it’s the Yankees or SF to be honest. Both have the money and haven’t made a big move in a while. Yankees should be going for it, and Soto certainly makes them the team to beat.
M’s have the MOST cap space and prospects to get this done yesterday. Will Trader Jerry get it done? Julio/Soto would be LETHAL!!
The Giants have too many holes to fill on an aging team. It makes no sense for them to decimate their farm for one player.
Judge has played in 82% of the games since 2017.
Soto has played in 86% of the games since 2018
Get the facts straight before making assumptions. Things happen to players. Soto could rupture his Achillies or rip his ACL tomorrow. Nobody knows the future.
@Y4L
There are numerous Mets fans that ‘know the future’, like ‘books’, ‘Metsfan’, Cosmo2 etc. They’ve already told anyone that cares to listen to them on MLBTR that the Mets have the NL East ‘won’.
Judge has played in 79.3% of the games since 2017. Juan Soto did not start the 2018 season in Washington. You either forgot this or did not know. I figure he has played in 93% of possible games. There is a big difference here. You are guilty of Trumpspeak. You get your facts straight, Trumpspeaker.
Stevie Cohen’s beautiful money.
…has nothing to do with it in the here and now. If the Yankees throw Volpe, Florial, Zeigler, Jasson, both Oswaldos, Peraza and Weineski. Perhaps another pitcher or two. I doubt any team can come up with that good a package.
I agree i would take Soto over judge just on age alone but 400 million for a guy hitting .247 is completely insane.
Not to mention it’s not just the money you have to pay him. He’s gonna cost probably 5 of your top prospects just to get him from Washington as well. I’m not sure even deep pocket teams can weather that double hit. It’s like the Vikings trading for Herschel Walker.
It is what he does with that .247. Is he a singles hitter? Clearly, he is not. He will also probably lead all of baseball in walks this year.
Man turning down a guaranteed $440 million. Hopefully he doesn’t get into a car accident or has a serious injury that prevents him getting offered another contract in the future.
I can’t wait to watch Julio/Soto hitting back to back in the same lineup!
#DYNASTY!
Hard pass if that’s what it’s going to take. For longevity of the franchise Cohen can’t just spend on every single player, part of winning is developing the younger talent and bringing them up. I’d obviously kick the tires on Soto and be willing to part with some of those guys but no way I’d lose Baty and Mauricio. Maybe Mauricio (since Lindor is there) and Ramirez; still leaves Baty (OF/3B) and Vientos.
Anyone but dodgers please im huge fan of t turner I’m hoping we can sign him long term which is gonna be very hard how can we think about signing him and giving Soto a deal like that I think he will go to one of the new york teams unless turners doesn’t resign and they know 100 percent he won’t them maybe dodger will be in if not they step out of trading for him
Ladies and Gentlemen, Meet the next Juan Gonzalez! Atta Boy
What a chump… Used to like Soto, not anymore.
Probably looks at Trout and doesn’t want yo waste away on a middle of the pack team for the next decade. Can’t blame him for wanting to win.
He won a World Series already and the Nats have already proven they can be consistent playoff contender over a long period with the last decade. Angels and Nats are no where close to comparable.
They have? Last place 2020. Last place 2021. Last place 2022. The farm is bare. 12 FA at the end of this season. They are top heavy in unmovable contracts for Strasburg and Corbin. New ownership will be coming soon. Too little winning. Too little in talent coming through the pipeline. Too much uncertainty. I just don’t see a reason any player would want to stay there.
@natsgm
That was when Strasburg was in his prime, Scherzer was there, Anibal Sanchez pitched really well, Corbin got 14 wins, Suzuki caught really well and called good games as he has done his whole career, hence why Scherzer loved pitching with him as catcher, and Suzuki also hit 17hr and 63 rbi’s, Soto hit 34 hr 110rbi, Rendon had a career year(34hr 126 rbi) and has never played like that again, Trea Turner was still there, and there was a guy called Howie Kendrick who hit .344 and outslugged Soto by a few points. You aren’t just going to unearth talent like that again.
What about this is about winning?! Its entirely about getting paid!!
I agreed he has a ring already its all about the money period.
The Nationals are not going to be bad for long. They have the nucleus of a good club in place, thanks to the rebuild, and more young talent on the way.
They are further away than you may think.
They do? Who is that? Nearly half the team will be gone at the end of the year to free agency. The remaining players other than Ruiz are scrubs.
What young talent coming up?
They have some in the pipeline, but other than Cavalli and Henry it is years away(House, Vacquero, whoever they draft on Sunday).
If they lose Soto, that pushes a return to contention to 2028-2030.
Josh Bell will be traded. Ruiz is a disappointment. Garcia has to hit around .300 to be productive because he doesn’t hit many homers or walk much. He is also out of position.They have fourth outfielders in Thomas, Hernandez and Soto. They have one good starting pitcher. Another two have bad contracts. One gets hit a lot. The other gets hurt a lot. Cavalli may turn out to be good. They have hope for the bullpen with Irvin,Henry and Ruttledge. I don’t think even one of them makes it as a starter. Brady House may be good or may not. Hard to tell. They have two outfield prospects who may pan out. De LaRosa and the Cuban guy. The Cuban is probably at least four years away.
wants to choose where he works…..the nerve!
You people who think his decision was based on anything other than pure greed crack me up. He will not accept less to play elsewhere. He would accept playing in Pittsburgh or Kansas City for $480M+
Yea, me too.
So, when you try to make as much salary at your profession as you are able, is that decision based on anything other than greed? Or is it greed only when others do it?
@RemoveManagerWinsFromTheRecordBooks Who you callin “you people?”
well Nat’s decision to not pay him market value is ‘pure greed’ to0 then.
Us people. You gotta love when someone accuses others of being greedy for trying to maximize their salary, when they’d behave in exactly the same way in this situation.
I don’t have a greedy agent negotiating for me,do you? If Boras had said take it, he would have taken it.
$500 Million, it’s Scott’s chance to be the first agent to net a $500M contract. AAV goes from $29.3M on the $440M rejected to $33.3M. What’s an extra $4M per year…Scott already makes a ridiculous amount in commissions, this one could be about his ego, to be the first.
Greed, Boras, greed, Boras, etc…. but no answer to the question.
I made myself quite clear, you people who think the offer was rejected because he doesn’t want to play in DC.
Im guessing he referred to those who have commented as “you people”. That trigger you? LOL
Yes you did make yourself quite clear, but not in the way you think you did.
Speak for yourself. His market has now been drastically reduced to the few teams able to afford a half billion dollar contract. And if he sustains a serious injury before signing that half billion contract he’s screwed. I wouldn’t take the risk but that’s because I’m not dumb. Nats can wait until the end of 2023 to trade him which means plenty of opportunity for injury.
I don’t speak for anyone else, but I do recognize hypocrisy when I see it.
Actually, he’s drastically reduced his market to teams that can afford to pay him $30m a year, which is probably at least half of them. The others couldn’t afford him at deep discount on that price tag. Every fan should know if Soto was on the player market now, he’d get at least $30m per on a shorter contract. Offering him that much now for a longer term with predictable inflation in player salaries is pricing in risk.
Everything you can’t predict ahead of time is a risk.
It really hasn’t.. a team like the Pads t
Can trade the farm for 2 1/2 yrs of control.. get 3 shots at a WS .. and let him walk…or try to work it out…15/440 is an insult… 12/400 probably gets it done.. just saying
You have inside info on what was said between them?
It cracks me up that people don’t think players know what they’re doing.
Boras is the good guy here, the owners are the greedy ones – if you think otherwise, then you merely have been fooled by ownership propaganda, who have always framed player salaries as “in relation to office worker”. Meanwhile those same owners make $800M a year off their team and where are you then? Crying about some player making $18M being “dead weight” and “the worst thing ever”. when the tickets are still high?
You don’t even know up is down in this argument. You are framing it all wrong if Boras is the bad guy. You are choosing to take the side of MUCH MUCH MUCH worse bad guys! Why????
Touche, can’t really argue that logic.
It’s greed when $440 M is not enough
@BlueSkies when you reject a 440 Million dollar offer because you want more, then yes, it is about greed. But you can’t blame the guy, hope he gets it and cripples whatever team for which he signs and plays meaningless games for the rest.of his career
Of course it is, but that’s true in every business; the U.S. has set the standard for capitalism run amok. But why should Juan Soto—perhaps the No.1 greatest offensive talent in the game—short-change his earning power in this environment?
I’m a Giants fan, and if ownership has the cojones to make an offer for Soto, I for one will applaud. “Generational talent” gets kicked around a bit. Juan Soto IS it.
Part of it is Jealousy & envy how many times l seen people say oh I wouldn’t ask for so much to play a game (Yet if they actually had the talent to get paid to play they would be asking for the same amount of money)
People thinking player salaries are the reason why prices are so high should look at the NHL where the hard cap there has players making less then they were in the 90’s yet tickets aren’t cheap at all.
It’s all supply and demand how many doctors teachers office workers are there in the world and how many people can play baseball like Juan Soto can?? Don’t know where it is at but the man is going to make his money and good for him.
I am not aware of any other offer at this time. The Nats just set the market. Correa thought he had a much higher market value, and found out he was wrong! 25 teams were just removed from Soto’s market by this announcement. The market is never what they are worth. Its always what teams are willing and able to pay.
Who on this site would take less money to do the same job because you are loyal to your current employee??? That isn’t greed. It’s called maximizing your earning power. It sucks for Nats fans, but he should make every dollar that he can while he can…and so should you!
Don’t forget that this team will not be any good until 2024 or later. There are two many holes. He won in his second year but he doesn’t want to wait three or four more years before they have the chance to win again. They were hoping he would take what really is a hometown discount. If I were in his position, I would not have taken it either. I think the team is so bad right now, I would want to leave as soon as possible. He hit a homer in each game of a doubleheader a few days ago and they still lost both games. I still doubt he gets traded in the next two weeks. The front office has made so many mistakes the last ten years. Strasburg’s innings limit was badly handled. They could have gotten a starting pitcher and put Strasburg in the bullpen for the second half of the season. He was a closer at San Diego State. They hired Davey Johnson as their manager. He ruined Dwight Gooden’s career by making him pitch so many innings in lopsided games. Don’t give me the baloney about coke ruining it. Coke actually prolonged his career because he went into rehab and got a break from pitching. Davey had Drew Storen come in a lopsided game against the Cardinals when they needed to win the next two games which were on consecutive days. Did Davey not know that there were games on back to back to back days? Did he not think he might need his closer both of those games? As far as I know, these questions have not been answered. So Davey had Drew Storen pitch three days in a row. It is no wonder he couldn’t get the final out against the Cardinals. What is one more pitcher to abuse? Bud Black was hired to manage but was only offered one year. He backed out. Johnnie Baker, who had a bad October record was hired. He was given two years. So your first choice is offered one year but your second choice is offered two. Does that make sense? Of course, they went home both of his two years after their first playoff series. Sammy Solis gets bombed against the Cubs so what did Johnnie do? Put him in again a couple days later. The Strasburg contract will go down as one of the worst in history. Maybe the worst. The only thing preventing that from happening would be his retirement. Do people actually expect him to pitch more than 100 innings in any one of the next four seasons. He’s most likely done this season after not even five innings. The man in charge of all this nonsense has been Mike Rizzo and he was just extended about a week ago. Just do a crappy job and you stay employed and make millions. Oh. I almost forgot the Patrick Corbin contract. That is another one that is garbage. He was very good his first season and has sucked ever since. It is so sad that Bryce Harper never even played in a World Series while he was here. The talent was there but there were also crappy managers along with a GM that screws up so much. That is more important.
Please read the article before commenting. He’s under team control for two and a half more years therefore he has no market value. Nats have the next two years baked into the offer.If you think $75 million more than the biggest contract in baseball history isn’t enough then what do you expect Ohtani to get $600 million?
He wants to win. It is not about greed.
So you rather go full socialism in baseball? Tell us how that would work and how you will sell that to the players union?
They’re all greedy. The mistake is thinking that greed is bad in this context.
You can’t be serious. When a person has the opportunity to go from $30/hr to $50/hr that’s a change in lifestyle. But if a professional athlete won’t accept 30m/yr but 35-40m/year is acceptable, that is greed. Lifestyle isn’t changing. At that point it’s about status of saying “I got the first $500m contract” which is all ego. Ego is me first and not about team or winning.
Socialism? You are creating a false dichotomy. It’s not either half a billion dollar contracts OR socialism.
We aren’t talking about wanting a pay raise from $50,000 to $75,000 ace.
Boras works for him, not the other way around.
Please learn the difference between revenue and profit. Owners make nowhere remotely close to the $500M or $800M figures you throw out. When the Dodgers’ revenue was over $500M, they still had an operating income of around -$8M.
Owners make bank selling the teams…not on a yearly basis. While it is a business, a good number of owners have teams as little hobbies, not as prime income streams.
85GoCards: good luck trying to explain that basic business concept to baseball fans. (By the way, I follow my local team now, but as a kid I was die hard Cardinals fan. Tom Herr and Joaquin Andujar were my favorites. If I get the reference in your handle correctly.)
You’re looking at that 35-40m through the lense of one person’s needs, billybilly. If you have a unique skillet that few do, and you can get an extra 100m or whatever over a decade, wouldn’t you want to set up your great, great grandkids? I guarantee those “poor” billionaire owners are doing the same. People are just upset because they see the numbers and/or they’re Nats fans.
You know that how? When did agents suddenly start controlling the people they are hired by to represent them in negotiations? Boras advises his clients, not tells them what to do.
Based on past history I can see the two NY teams, the two LA teams, Washington. Boston. Maybe the Cubs and Giants. Phillies if Midddleton wants to spend “stupid” money, again. Am I missing any other likely suitor?
Cards.
Billionaires either stole it or inherited it from someone who stole it.
Soto could’ve also agreed to take it.
If Pittsburgh paid him $480 million, he’d have to pitch, play all three outfield positions, manage and sell beer when he’s not playing.
@BlueSkiesLA
That’s a presumption, not a fact. Maybe ‘most people’ do attempt to maximize their salary, however, sometimes some people take less money to stay in a position and locality they love. However, as this is about a baseball player and we’re talking about millions, is it all about the money? There have been other players that have taken less money to stick with certain teams. I won’t name names because it’s a fact.
I suppose it depends on what your motivating factor is, is it to try and win World Series or is it just about money?
BlueSkies_LA – Greed refuses to be satisfied. More often than not, the more we get, the more we want. Material possessions will not protect us—in this life or eternally. Jesus’ parable of the rich fool in Luke 12:13–21 illustrates this point well. Again, money or wealth is not a problem. The problem is our attitude toward it. When we place our confidence in wealth or are consumed by an insatiable desire for more, we are failing to give God the glory and worship He deserves. We are to serve God, not waste our time trying to become rich (Proverbs 23:4). Our heart’s desire should be to store up riches in heaven and not worry about what we will eat or drink or wear. “But seek first [God’s] kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well” (see Matthew 6:25-34).
Isn’t it possibile that both location AND money played into the decision? Lets face it, he knows he can get PAID in the FA market. So, money is top of the list but I think winning is a close second. Washington is going to be a dumpster fire for a while, especially with the status of the NL, in general. Atlanta and NY are positioned to run the East for a while. Cards are gonna Card. Dodgers and SD will be atop the West. Maybe Soto wants to take his pick of $450M contracts from the likes of larger market teams who are in a a position to win. All things being equal, if he had the same exact contract on the table and it was a choice between PIT, WAS, NYY, NYM, LAD, KC, MIA, OAK. You know the likes of WAS, PIT, OAK, MIA would be at the bottom of his list. So, yea, money played a big part but I’d be willing to bet he’s well aware of how bad WAS will be and doesn’t wanna be stuck on a bad team for the next 10 yrs. Just my opinion though.
@Fred McGriff HR. How many times have you heard someone say, “no thanks boss, I don’t deserve that raise.” Exactly never? And those are individuals looking out for themselves. Ballplayers hire professional negotiators to look out for them, and not for no reason.
The “home town discount” or whatever you might call it is the unicorn of baseball. It’s talked about a lot more often than it’s seen. So you say you won’t name names, but I think not because it’s obvious but in fact because it’s really difficult. Like the example above, nobody ever says that they turned down a better offer to play somewhere. It’s just an assumption fans sometimes like to make because it’s a feel-good thing to believe it. The reality is players who make choices to sign or remain with a certain team are getting market rate for their services. They have fielded other offers and are not deliberately leaving money on the table.
In Soto’s case the headline number is huge, obviously, but I think we all know the Nat’s offer is a lowball. Based on his age and talent we know he’ll get a better offer from another team. Also in his case it’s some of both, the money and the prospect of being stuck for the rest of his career on a team that might not be competitive for the better part of it. He knows he can have both, and he isn’t going to say “no thanks” to either one. The only surprise to me is that any baseball fan is surprised.
@NickyNoodles. Yup, pretty much what I think too. More money, better franchise. What’s the downside, other than being called “greedy” by fans who still haven’t wrapped their heads around how much teams will pay for top talent? I mean, if we hang out here, we know. Right?
Braves fans have examples, but they aren’t recent examples: Maddux, Chipper Jones, Andruw Jones. I can’t think of any others off-hand.
Soto has time to see if the Nats are serious about contending next year and beyond. If they are still second-division coming out of 2024, then he can use that as part of his decision-making. If they trade him before then, it simplifies things for him.
@BlueSkiesLA
Ozzie Albies, Ronald Acuna, Collin McHugh, to name a few.
And you get a great deal less for him if you wait until the end of 2023 to trade him.
How do you envision the Nats “contending next year?” Pass the pipe.
@larkraxm Yeah, because money’s all that matters.
Sigh. How sad.
But it’s his Bobblehead day! With a stars wars crossover! JUAN SOLO!
If the 750 MLB players don’t get the money, all the extra is just going to the 30 owners.
I don’t get people like you.
I understand them completely. They are just mad that they don’t have a skillset that has as high of earning power, so they have to find some way of coping with the fact that they are less.
No fans like I are mad at both owners and players. Why would I spend $120 plus on 2 tickets and parking to watch a baseball game? The regular people are getting out priced to go to a game. Family of four cant go to games anymore. MLB and most sports is now over priced for the working class to attend games.
Yes they can. You can get tickets for $10-15 at any stadium right now for a game in 2 weeks. That’s the same price as a movie.
@ARC 2 Owners can set ticket prices at $10 but don’t because they need to make $500M profit, not “merely” $400M. They “need” that 7th house. It’s disgusting greed and helps no one and destroys society.
Baseball players careers are over at 35 and few of them have other options, because MLB requires them to dedicate 100% of their time to them. It is never, I repeat, NEVER their fault. They need to get paid and be able to retire at 35 for participating in this industry, period.
That is not true. i don’t call a seat with restricted views as going to a game. the rich call those peasant seats while they use tax loop holes to write off seats as a business expense. Most of the best seats are corporate seats. Now add in parking, food, transportation and you just drove up the price. Hard to believe you feel sorry for players and owners.
Sure. But what he is saying (I think) is that if they cut player salaries to $8.00/hour, the owners wouldn’t suddenly reduce ticket prices and hand out free beer and parking to the fans. They would just keep more of it. It isn’t a choice of is it going to you or the players. Some goes to the players or the owners keep it all.. We don’t get any of it!
And things like putting games on streaming services — different ones. How much money do these bozoids think we have?
Actually, they do have $10 tickets.
I don’t know what part of the US you live in, but where I do, you can take public transport to two blocks from the stadium.
Yes, food and drink is grossly overpriced, but if you get hot dogs and non alcoholic drinks for four, you’re still under $100.
You are completely mistaken. If the players get more money, then the owners don’t lose any, the prices for fans go UP. The owners will never lose money. They wouldn’t continue having games or even having a team if they were losing money. It is a business, not a charity after all.
That a seriously bizarre take on economics, hiflew.
This isn’t about economics. This is about history. Sports leagues and teams have failed a LOT in the past 100 years in America. MLB is not immune to it. If teams lose money, they will not operate indefinitely. No one in their right mind would. And without the owners, let’s see how many Dominican or Venezuelan, or even American kids with just a high school education that will ever see $440 thousand dollars in 15 years, let alone $440 million.
@hiflew you are mistaken in that players salaries do not make ticket prices go up. Ticket prices are set by market value. Demand and Supply. A better product in the field will make tickers more desirable, for sure. But there isn’t a direct correlation between salaries and ticket prices
Good grief! If an owner runs a team into the ground, then the next person will be there to purchase the team. Which owner sold a team for less than they purchased it for in the history of sports?? Did you see the Broncos recent sale? As for the bigoted comment about the intelligence of the highly skilled athletes from non-white countries, they are making fat trust fund babies that contribute nothing to society a lot of money…even without a Master’s degree.
All of the money in sports is in the TV contracts.
@ SoCalBrave. Thank you for getting it. You must have paid attention in Econ 101. As we can see, lots dozed through that course.
How exactly was it a bigoted comment to point out that not many kids from Venezuela, the Dominican Republic, or the United States that barely have a high school education make millions of dollars in any field other than baseball? Just because someone uses the word Dominican or Venezuelan doesn’t mean they are bigoted.
Please take your time to explain how I am bigoted for pointing that out. I said nothing about their intelligence, only their education level. Since most Dominicans and Venezuelans get signed at 16, I naturally assumed they didn’t have their Master’s degree yet.
Absolutely false. Supply and demand have surprisingly little to do with ticket prices. If that were the case, the prices for Marlins tickets would be near zero. There are lots of empty seats in stadiums and ticket prices are not falling.
You said nothing bigoted at all. Some folks just enjoy being triggered and making baseless accusations on the subject.
The point stands, or not, without commenting about their countries of origin? Entertainment (sports, movies, music, etc.) is the only field in which children who have not completed their formal educational training can earn millions of dollars regardless of their countries of origin. There isn’t really Doogie Howser. That was just a TV show. I’m not really sure why you are making this point? But I will concede it. It is hard for children to earn millions of dollars outside of entertainment. Your real point, I think, is an old one that credits capital instead of workers for production. The way your comment is written implies that because players originate from the countries you mentioned, and have no formal education, they should not complain or ask to be paid a fair amount of MLB revenue. If that was not your intention, I am sorry for calling your comment bigoted. It is the limitation of a comment section, I guess. It is hard to tell intent.
@riverrat12 – finally some common sense in here, love to see it.
@riverrat
No, if the one player doesn’t get the money, 749 other MLB players will be able to get it. Payroll is a fixed amount, a percentage of revenue. If you don’t spend it on Soto, it gets spent on other players.
riverrat: you are WAY oversimplifying things. There are MANY other places for that money to go. So much more involved in revenue than just players and owner profit. Soooooo much more. You need to really look into this, you’ve no clue how business works.
Got forbid a business owner make a profit. Workers of the world, unite! Eat the rich! The profit motive is bad! (Except for the players desire for millions of dollars, that’s not bad because they are the workers)
Why? You don’t like it when players want to exercise their option to choose where they want to play? You have a problem with him wanting to gauge his value on the open market?
No I don’t. That is the complete antithesis of a competitive league. Look at what it has done to the NBA.
The NBA is growing popularity every year. The MLB is not.
I’ve often wondered about players free will to play where they want vs any pressure from agents or the MLBPA to take the highest offer. Mike Trout grew up a Phillies fan. Why sign that extension with the Angels instead of taking the FA route and getting to wear the uniform you dreamed of as a kid? If Soto grew up dreaming of being a Yankee, go for it, If Judge loved the Giants, go for it. Why not?
@wampum
Maybe he also dreamed of playing his whole career with one team.
@stymeedone very true, players do speak of wanting to spend their entire career with one team.
I wouldn’t stay in DC … The Nats are a disaster with no chance of win anytime soon … The talk there is that the team will be sold in the next 2-3 years and they won’t do much in the meantime … Soto would flourish if he was on a decent team !
The Nats have a good young nucleus in place. They will be contending within the next couple of years.
They do? Who would that be? Other than Ruiz and Soto there are no good young players I can see. Their farm system is relatively bare. Just the two decent prospects and they are both just doing MEH this season. They have $60 million a season tied up in Strasburg and Corbin. They have 12 players leaving in free agency at the end of the season. The Nats are not going to contend any time soon.
I don’t know what team you’re watching. The nucleus is Soto, Bell Garcia and that is pretty much it. Bell will be gone in the next 16 days.. Garcia should be at second base. Soto should be traded for three guys that will be in the everyday lineup in the next two years and a starting pitcher. That is what they should get at minimum. I wish Mike Rizzo was not in charge of this. He has screwed up so much. The only starting pitcher with potential is Cade Cavalli. Cole Henry gets hurt too often, Jackson Ruttledge can’t put it together in the low minors and Jake Irvin has been getting bombed in AA. Put these three in the bullpen and they should have a great bullpen in two years. The only promising outfielders are Jeremy de La Rosa.and the Cuban guy they just signed. Brady House might be good or not. Keibert Ruiz has been a disappointment. Maybe that is why they might draft a catcher tomorrow.
Harper, Scherzer, Turner, Rendon…I can go on. Why would Soto want to stay?
Dumbest owners in MLB. They should have never been allowed to win a title while being this incompetent.
Sometimes a team just gets hot. There were certainly worse WS winners than the Nats.
True. Atlanta
They shouldn’t have been allowed? 29 other teams had the chance to stop them but couldn’t. What a crazy notion.
@Drew Ford
Yeah sure, beat the Dodgers, beat the Astros, pure luck it wasn’t. Dream on.
It’s the uncertainty with ownership not the $$$$$. Rumors they may sell the team.
Wow.
I don’t blame him, though. That team is going nowhere with their current roster and farm system.
He’s not even worth 440 million ☠️
Oh he is on the right team, but whats the point of paying him that much money to be an MVP contender on a disaster of a franchise?
Apparently the Nats think there’s a point, since they offered it to him.
Hmm. Best record in the 2010s. Took a new franchise and made the playoffs within a decade. Won the World Series three years ago. Yep total disaster. Not.
New franchise???? Sorry Montreal Expos. Baseball Babe just erased you from history!
Last place in 2020. Last place in 2021. Last place in 2022. No chance to get out of last place in 2023.
Soto is the best hitter since Gwinn, no doubt. But his defense is declining into unplayable and he’s never been a fast runner.
Is he really worth 500M if he’s a DH only player?
Juan Soto is obviously a great hitter but he’ll have to dominate hitting more than just in a pandemic-shortened season to come close to dethroning Mike Trout — maybe a few other hitters too. Don’t see how Soto compares to Gwynn. Gwynn hit over .300 19 years in a row. Soto has done it only twice. And Soto hits for power, which Gwynn never really did. They only compare in a high OBP, but a lot of great hitters have had high OBPs. The hitter today that compares to Tony Gwynn is Minnesota’s Luis Arraez — even if it’s only one season so far.
Tony Gwynn had high OBPs only because he hit well over .300 so many times. He hit .338 for his career and his obp was only .388. That tells you he didn’t walk much.
Gwynn maybe didn’t walk as much probably because pitchers pitched to him rather than walk him. The guys who pitchers pitch around tend to be mashers — which Gwynn was not.
Give me a break! He’s nothing like Gwynn! What sport have you been watching? Lol!
@SoCalBrave
Best hitter since Tony Gwynn? Not even close.
It might not be about the money for Soto. Maybe he just wants to be able to test free agency in a few years or find another ball club. Give him the benefit of the doubt.
Exactly, the Nats have been very bad building a long term projection for themselves, the farm is awful. Why be the only good player on a non-serious team?
Nope. They have an excellent young nucleus in place.
Who? Other than Ruiz and Soto, who is the “excellent young nucleus”? The farm sucks so no help coming there.
Ruiz has been a disappointment. He has not even been an average hitter this season.
It’s about the money. The AAV of that offer was under $30mil. I’d reject it too. I’d want more than what Harper’s making.
Nationals dodged a bullet. Soto is pretty great but not that great.
Incoming lowball offers in the comments.
Andujar, Chapman, and Gallo should get it done.
It’s too bad Clint Frazier isn’t a Yankee still. He would be a perfect addition to that offer.
Don’t forget to add Sanchez.
What’s Refsnyder, Adams, Fowler, Mateo, Sheffield up to these days?
@MC Tim C- *Jackson Frazier
@stymeedone- the Sanchise is now a member of the Twinkies. Pay attention.
how many years?
I think he understands that the Nationals are going nowhere fast.
Wants to compete for championships not 4th or 5th place in the division
He understands that the Nats will be back in contention soon.
2025 or 2026 at the earliest is not very soon. I don’t know why Mike Rizzo said he was not going to trade Soto but build around him. Does he know how long it will take to make this team a winner even if Soto is still around? There is no way it would be by 2024. There are just too many weaknesses to address. When he says something stupid like that, it makes me wonder about his ability. I know he has screwed up many times in the last ten years.
That left-handed bat between Springer and Guerrero in Toronto would be sick.
Oh man. I’m drooling at the thought of Soto in the Jays lineup. He’s exactly what they need.
I can’t see them pulling the trigger on this though.
With a farm system ranked in the 20s, holes to fill in the pitching staff and Atkins preaching sustainability I just can’t see them emptying the farm for Soto.
I mean what would it cost them? Moreno, Orelvis, Tiedemann, Espinal, Gurriel + a lotto ticket or two maybe?
I mean the system is crap and the time to win is literally right now. There is no point in sustainability if the current team teeters out. So I would trade any number of prospects.
I mean… if they emptied the farm… and I mean completely emptied the farm for Soto, Castillo and a couple bullpen arms… I’d have a hard time arguing that move. But it would mean literally almost every prospect of value being shipped out.
That would be crazy risky… but would set them up as likely the top team in the AL for probably the next 3 years. And they did turn around pretty quickly after Anthopoulous gutted the farm in 2016…. So maybe they feel it would be worth a shot.
Can’t see them going big after Soto to reinforce a strength unless they are going to attack the pitching weaknesses too though.
Pitching weakness is overblown. Starters have been good outside of Kikuchi and 35% of Berrios and I am not too worried about Berrios. Pen is a weakness yes but the disappointing season is mainly on the bats so far. Vlad, Teoscar, Bo all having “down” years. Did not replace Semien’s MVP bat. Last year the Jays had MVP 2,3, 12. This year, zero so far in the top 12…unless Manoah gets some votes.
What? Alejandro Kirk probably finishes top 5 in MVP voting if the season ended today. He’s the replacement for Simien we just didn’t see coming.
You’re right about the pitching though. Stripling has been solid and Berrios should work himself out. Just the 5 spot is a mess. Hopefully Max Castillo can fill that spot. If not you can probably get someone like Quintana for very little.
It’s more the bullpen I worry about. In the playoffs those relievers are so much more valuable. Not a lot of swing and miss in that bullpen and that makes it harder in the post season.
Yankees lol – imagine that OF
Exactly.
Peraza Waldichuk;pretty much any prospect not named Volpe or the Martian,contingent on a 10/$310M.
Wave 10/$400M under Jusge’s nose as well.
Judge*
And I’d keep Gallo as a 4th outfielder. Move Hicks.
You seriously think he’s gonna accept a $10 year/310 million contract when he just rejected a 15 year/440? Plus to get him it’s gonna take Volpe, Peraza, and whatever else of value we have.
Exactly – that defense is going to be worst in the league by 1000 miles. You need defense to win. Yankees stay chipless as long as you keep ignoring this, which you ALWAYS do!
The Yankees are not getting Soto while still keeping Volpe and Dominguez IMO.
@beyou02215- that’s not happening one or the other is going. It would be in the Nats best interest to get Dominguez and Peraza instead of Volpe. The Martian is about 2 years away. Hicks can play centerfield or leftfield till he’s ready.
Highly doubt they’re trading Soto to NY without one of Volpe or Dominguez being included. They should be in no rush to move him since he’s not a free agent for multiple years so why settle? It’s going to take a team’s number 1 prospect.
Dodgers could offer something like Cartaya, Miller, Pepiot, Pages which is a much better package than Peraza and Waldichuk (even if you included the 5 best prospects immediately after those two) and still have a farm that includes Amaya, Busch, Leonard, Vargas, etc.
Zero chance the Yankees get Soto without offering Volpe and Dominguez
@Bjoe- that’s nonsense, the Yankees definitely don’t have to trade both of them to acquire Soto. The Nationals would be better off getting both Dominguez and Peraza instead of Volpe. Peraza is major league ready, and is better shortstop defensively then Volpe.
Lol…Nats aren’t trading Soto without getting Volpe and Dominguez.
Any offer from the Yankees would have to start with Volpe and then include 3 of the next 4 on the list of their top prospects. They don’t have any young, controllable MLB talent to include in a trade for Soto.
@outinleftfield- Volpe will not be included in any Soto trade. Peraza is a shortstop that’s ready to perform on the major league level now. Hicks can play the outfield for now until Dominguez is ready. He’s about 2 years away. Everson Pereira is a year away. Schmidt and Waldichuk are 2 starters that are ready for the majors.
What about Austin Wells being included?
Let the sweepstakes begin! Abrams, Gore, Campusano, Mears, and Myers. Initial offer
I doubt Abrams does a ton to add value to the deal while his value is so low. Switch him out with one other blue chip and I could see something like this coming together
Abrams is 21 and should have not been in he majors this year. At his age he should be in high A and he was raking in AAA. Thinking his underwhelming cup of coffee lowers his value is completely asinine.
Abrams has hit .315 in his last 20 games. .364 his last 10 games. There is a reason he was a higher rated prospect than Volpe or any other SS prospect. His value has not dropped at all just because he is hitting .233 overall in 116 AB at age 21. Abrams, Hassell, Woods, and the Ruiz kid they just called up that was hitting lights out in AA and AAA this season (.333 with 1.027 OPS) would probably get the deal done for Soto. Probably see another prospect attached from both direction in the trade. Then the Padres would have to figure out a way to pay Soto who will make $25+MM in 2023 and $30+MM in 2024 before he hits FA.
Why on earth do you think consensus top 10 prospect CJ Abrams trade value is currently low? Know ball before posting next time?
GB-What? He’s 21, and is holding his own..he adds tons of value to the deal.
I think if Padrss want Soto they get Soto..
Myers (matches the $$ factor to stay under the CBT tax)
The package would be CJ + Hassell + Campusano + Rosario + Victor Acosta + Wethers + Kerr + Myers
Only OF control beyond 22 are Ruiz and Grishman so they will be shopping for OF anyway.. Ruiz CF/Soto in LF and Grishman 4th is a good start…
Henry-That’d be a hard no
The Nats are not going to take Myers (or Hosmer).
SoCal-They’d have to if they want the rest of the package to make the salary match work for the Padres. Myers is a free agent after this season, so he’d be a throw in to make the rest work.
He’s not a free agent at seasons end. What’s the 2023 club option buyout?
1 million buyout if 2023 isn’t picked up.
sandiegouniontribune.com/sports/padres/story/2022-…
Ah, not bad then!
Wow. A 9 for 1 trade? LMFAO. Just no.
Nats could get a comparable return for Soto without taking the overpaid clubhouse cancer Myers.
So give up the foundational building blocks of the Padres next 6-10 years of contention for 1 corner OF and a rental player at that?!
If Padres are smart, then that is a “hard pass” on that deal.
How has that worked out for the Angels with Rondone, Trout and Otani
all making big bucks and the team is still not a playoffs team?!
@sportsfanoooo Soto is not a rental player
Insert Jo Adell trade meme
WOW! Highly doubtful he gets a better offer than that from anybody.
Prepare to be surprised.
The doubters always do this, and always get owned. Every time. Unbelievable how out of touch so many people are when it comes to stuff like this.
You remember when Harper and Machado were getting $400 million?
Great point
Just like corre…oh wait
Only difference is neither Harper nor Machado got Offered $440 mil.. Soto just did
It’s under (albeit a shade) $30MM per year. 8 years in on the 15 yr deal, may be a bargain.
Over 15 years that’s only $29.33 million a year. He’ll easily top that AAV without question.
But I doubt that the money is the problem. Who would want to be stuck on the Nats for 15 years? Look what they have around him in that lineup.
Keeping in mind, the first two years of any extension at this point are arbitration years buyouts. I was surprised the writer of this article didn’t pick up on that, and it seems most readers didn’t either.
He’s already making $17.1 mil this year after making $8.5 last year. Factoring in the raises for the next two years as well as the new bonus pool he could potentially lose money by taking a $29.33 mil buyout for those years.
Maybe I’ve missed something but I’ve never heard of a player who earned $30m in arbitration. I think he bumps up into the mid-20s. Something less than the AAV for the entire offer, is the point.
Soto is making $17 million this season and will make $25+ and $30+ the next two seasons in arbitration. Typically free agents make more AAV than they do in their final year of arbitration eligibility. Why the Nats thought that he would accept $29 million AAV is beyond me.
You never heard of one with Soto’s service time make $17 million either. He will get record money in his final two years of arbitration also. Using this website’s formula that would be over $25 million next season and over $30 million in 2024.
Everyone let’s just stop for a second. This human being just uttered the phrase “only $29.33 million a year.” Only. It’s just mind boggling that the word only gets used with a number that is probably 5 times more than most people will earn in a lifetime. I have absolutely no sympathy for these guys.
Strangely enough, nobody asked for your sympathy, so no need to offer any.
Strangely enough, I never asked for your reply either. So need to offer any. Have a nice day.
Sweet.
It’s closer to fifteen times what the median income earner wold make in forty years. (Calculated with a median income increasing every year for inflation)
I have sympathy neither for the owners nor for the “stars”. My only sympathy is for the minor leaguers who never make the big league and the MLB players who bounce in and out on a marginal career. Without those players, there would be no baseball.
@ Skeptical. Well okay, but sympathy has nothing to do with anything happening here. I was responding to the question of whether Soto would fetch more or less than $30m per if he was a free agent now. Anyone who believes it would be less couldn’t be paying a lot of attention to what premium players are getting. Corey Seager (just for one example) is playing on a ten-year contract worth over $30m per every year to age 37. So we should understand why Soto turned down the Nat’s offer. His agent knows it’s under market (and so should we).
There are 720 people at any one time that even play in MLB. Soto is one of the top 5 hitters in the game. What do people that are the top 5 at any highly skilled activity get paid? Top 5 actors? statista.com/statistics/451516/best-paid-actors/ The film director Peter Jackson made $580 million in 2021 and Bruce Springsteen made $435 million. Top 5 NBA players? All make over $42 million AAV. Top 5 Soccer Players? Ronaldo is set to earn $125 million before taxes in the 2021-22 season, with $70 million coming from salary. Top 5 doctors? All billionaires. Top 5 salespeople. All billionaires. You name any field of highly skilled people and tell me what their income is. Its more than what Soto will get.
You have to ask yourself what percentage of the baseball playing population can play baseball at such a high level. It is very small. That is why we are talking about such big numbers. So many prospects don’t make it. They get hurt or they just are not good enough for MLB.
A good young nucleus in place with more young talent coming in. They’ll be contending in a couple of years.
If they are contending in a couple of years, it will be because they have overpaid several free agents just like they did for Jayson Werth. I just don’t see it happening.
He will. From the Nats.
Rejection of your $440 million offer seems to take the sting out of decision making. Going public with it (if F.O. Is the source) seals the divorce. Might lighten the return too.
It went public so that no one can say they didn’t attempt to sign him. He will be gone before any sale, so it won’t be on the new owners. They will want to be looked at as saviors, not the ones who traded the future of the team. Plus it will provide a clean slate for building a team the way the new owners wish. Best likely scenario would be to trade for an already signed long term contract, one that is not yet underwater. A Tatus Jr, or Betts, for Soto, after a window to sign him. Of course there would have to be no trade clauses waived. But between financial incentives, and the realization that your team wants to move you, these things can happen.
When Boras retires, MLB will rise from the ashes!
I’m not going anywhere sir
He better take Manfred with him.
Ashes? MLB has record revenue this season and its climbing. Team values are skyrocketing.
Looks like MLB revenue peaked in 2019. Cord cutting is endangering baseball’s future economics. Young people watch far less cable than they used to and in parallel less baseball. MLB won’t feel it for awhile but it’s likely they will big time eventually.
pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2021/03/17/cable-and-sat…
Yankees have what it takes, volpe, Peraza, Dominguez, wells
But the Yankees prospects are too precious! Why would they trade unproven prospects for a superstar?
Clint Frazier and a PTBNL should get it done.
Actually Clint Frazier and Andujar should get the job done.
His name is actually Jackson Frazier now, btw. Check his baseball-reference page.
Not accepting this unless they pull the Twins in and include Gary Sanchez
@Chris G.- *Jackson Frazier
Doubt that gets it done if it’s gonna happen this season. 2 and 1/2 years of control for a kid who’s worst season was 44% better than league average. Plus Dominguez is having a down year and Pereza, while good, isn’t the same blue chip that someone like the Padres could offer
Highly disagree. Padres have two guys in top 100 currently, before the season three. Volpe is by far much better then any prospect Padres have
Hassell Jr + Campusano + Wood = 3, not 2 Top 100 prospects. Before season they had 4, Gore, Abrams, Campusano and Hassell
@joemoes- it doesn’t really matter if won’t be Volpe going to the Nationals it will be Dominguez and Peraza+
I hate myself saying this, but I think he’s an Astro before next season. They seem to be the team that would most willing may part with the talent it requires to get Soto, and they can spend the money on a 15/500 or something
The Astros will spend money, but, the kind it would take to keep Soto around would dwarf the kind of money they (reluctantly) offered Correa when he hit the open market…Don’t see them doing that..
The Astros don’t have enough to get a deal done, even if it included Tucker and Javier.
Stros will not trade Tucker. He’s a 30/30 guy, a gold glove and All-Star and young / controllable for several years, so you can forget that. Also Jim Crane will not dole out crazy contracts and thus Springer, Correa and Cole are bye bye replaced by cheaper just as good options ( Tucker, Peña and Valdez). I do think they make a play for the Reds pitcher.
If the Astros traded for Soto, he would only get his arbitration years and a few more FA years purchased at best… More likely they would just let him go through arbitration each year and let him walk in free agency.
*pukes
Enormous contracts make it more difficult to build a winning team around the player. Just look at the Angels. He is absolutely crazy for rejecting that.
Angels not competing has had more to do with Arte refusing to sign pitchers to multi-year deals, not enormous contracts for position players. The team can afford to spend $230 million. Arte just won’t.
He already has his World Series ring. Now he just wants to get paid.
Somebody thought he was going to be recruiting Trea Turner back to DC at ASG…. Seems rather unlikely eh.
More like turner trying to lure him to LA
Turner doesn’t want to be in LA, genius.
So the dodgers will get him for David price. If he’s rejecting 15/440 then he’s pricing himself out of most the league. Unless he wants opt out years or something else the Nats aren’t offering
The Nats would trade their superstar for an old pitching rental? Huh?
antone — Clearly, TJECK109 was being facetious.
Why should he accept 15/440
He could easily command 10/350
And the next two
Years of arbitration he probably Makes 20 a year soooo
He’s looking at 12/400 basically he can’t easily get 3/40 after that maybe better still
@Joe Because it’s a guaranteed 440M. One fastball to the face and his career could be over. It’s a risk to turn down that much guaranteed money.
@ joemoes You have it right.
Probably he’s looking at mid-2os in arbitration. In fact if you go 13 * 30 the remainder is 50, or 25 * 2. The things we can learn with the terrible power of arithmetic!
In the next two years of arbitration he probably makes $25 million and $30 million after making $17.1 million this season. He is looking at 12/420 as a starting point for negotiations if he goes to FA after earning $55 the next 2 years in arbitration and he gets to choose what team he plays for. He gets to go to a winning team, not one mired in losing for the foreseeable future. .
Farhan Zaidi’s first big signing? The Giants desperately need a young superstar. 10/440, they have plenty of $ to spend.
Supposedly Farhan/ownership really wanted Harper, Soto would be a even better signing. Get it done!
That would be a good bit of business in this guy’s opinion. That said, I expect more years somewhere with a slightly lower aav but more dollars.
Marco Luciano, Kyle Harrison plus some more lower level prospects with 2025-26 estimates for MLB time
I think the Giants would let Luciano, Matos and others go, but I don’t think Harrison.
Giants don’t have the high end prospects close to the majors that Soto would require. There’s a few teams that can out bid them
I can’t imagine turning down a guaranteed 440M dollars regardless of the circumstances. He’s just one shredded knee away….
Logical thought process except.
Just this year alone he’s making 17 million….. thats lottery winning money.
If you won the lottery tomorrow, and you had a skill you thought was worth 500 million, but someone offered you 12.5% less than what you thought you’re worth AND you already have 10s of millions. I think its a gamble worth taking.
If he doesn’t earn another dime there’s no reason he and his family abd future generations can’t be set up for sustainable success
And I think once you make $17M (plus whatever he’s made the past few years), you don’t really need money. It’s about you and your family for generations never having to worry ever again about money.
I don’t know where you guys live, but 17M (pre tax) for a lifetime isn’t exactly set up for generations to come. And I live in Ohio….
If you had 17 million in your hand, you could live off the interest and proceeds from your secure investments and never touch the 17 million.
There’s absolutely no reason for anyone fiscally responsible to ever need more than a few million. 17 is overkill
@Jays – a few million (we’ll call it 3) / 60 years comes out to 50k a year. For a family, I wouldn’t say that’s comfortable. Doable sure, depending on where you want to live.
You don’t spend the capital. At 3% interest $3 mil earns you $90k a year.
I couldn’t imagine signing with a garbage franchise like ANA or WAS when you could get more on the market.
Players get to the majors by believing and betting on themselves.
I’m not shocked he turned the nats down
How is Washington a garbage franchise? They won a WS recently. What else do you want?
Last place in 2020. Last place in 2021. Last place in 2022. 12 players leaving at the end of the season in FA. No great prospects in the minors and few that are even good. Only one good young player other than Soto on the MLB roster. Strasburg and Corbin are making $60 million combined this season and more next two so 40% of rotation is set with guys that are either hurt or terrible. No chance of climbing out of last place in 2023. The team will be sold this year so no telling what will happen down the road. Can you name one reason for any player to want to sign there?
Money
Sounds like the relationship soiled fast. Wow.
I’m sure trading away half the team and surrounding him with AAA bats helped out.
This only equates to around 29 Mil a year. There are teams that would definitely give him a higher AAV over the same time frame
Big risk to take. One 98 mph to the head/neck and things can change real fast.
A knee injury, a back injury, foot problems, eye sight problems and overall regression can happen to anyone and make those long contracts turn into an albatross.
LOL. Says a fan of the team who can’t afford him… you already have the oft-injured Acuna and So-broke-a to deal with. I wouldn’t recommend dropping 50% of your future payroll on one guy anyway.
I was referring to the big risk Soto was taking by turning down almost half a billion.
Which is what insurance is for. Do you really think teams make an investment like that without it?
Contract could
Be ruined but teams have insurance
But how much? Even with good insurance that’s still probably at least $200 million paid.
I was referring to the risk Soto was taking by turning it down.
That’s a ton of money. Life altering money. However, spread over 15 years that’s an AAV of just north of $29 million. Not even close to the top AAV in MLB so no one should be surprised that it was rejected. As one of the premier talents and biggest stars in the game he has a valid argument to be at or near the top of the charts in both total $$$$ and AAV. Had they made that offer for 10 years rather than 15 he may well have taken it. Now, let the bidding begin to see who makes the best trade offer.
So basically the Dodgers, Yankees and Mets are the only ones gonna pay a $500 million dollar contract.
The assumption is that this is just about money, it could be more about winning. I’m not saying he’s going to pull a Jram, but have a feeling his extension won’t be much more than 440 no matter where he ends up
Hes already won. No is about the money.
You win 1 championship and you all of a sudden enjoy losing, is that really the opinion you’re going with ?
The Nats are in last place this season. They were in last place the previous 2 seasons. They will be in last place next season with or without Soto. There are few prospects in the pipeline that can help the next 2 or 3 years. They have 12 players that will be FA at the end of this season. So they are going to continue to lose for the foreseeable future. If you want to win, you are not signing a deal with the Nats right now.
Yankees aren’t even going to make an offer for Soto
@Braves as of right now I don’t see any team give $500 million.
Not a team… a man… Steve mufuggin’ Cohen.
@skip- I can definitely see the Yankees offering Soto $540 million for 12 years. At $45 mill a pop he definitely seems worth it. Let’s face it Mr. Soto is a total game changer or needle mover for any organization.
Teams would only be getting control through 2024. Don’t necessarily need to think about the $500 million. Could make sense for a small market team in a competitive window – Twins, Brewers, Guardians etc. Would essentially be renting Soto at his arb salary. Then get a competitive balance pick at the end after he rejects the QO. Or even flip him in 2024.
BB-Head – – I could see the Dodgers trading equity for 2+ years of Soto. But, i highly doubt they will sign him long term because he is a Scott Boras client.
But, to your point, I could also see the Braves Cardinals, and Giants shelling out big money for him.
The Braves are a mid-market team. They weren’t willing to pay Freddie. I seriously doubt they’d be willing to pay Soto market value. I could see AA trading prospects for him to be on the team for two years, but Atlanta doesn’t have the prospects.
Maybe they just thought letting him go was a better baseball decision. It’s not necessarily that they couldn’t afford Freddie.
I never said they couldn’t afford him, I said they were unwilling to pay him. It seems you agree with me.
Sorry, you are correct. Yes we agree. I should have read more carefully.
Just like Soto. Technically, they could afford him, but wouldn’t want to commit that much to one player. Anthopolous is a strong believer in efficiency, and there’s nothing less efficient than the winning bid on a free agent contract.