[img_assist|nid=9211|title=|desc=|link=none|align=middle|width=400|height=203]

As if ABC's drama Brothers & Sisters’ wasn’t groundbreaking enough in giving viewers Kevin Walker (Matthew Rhys), a complicated gay character with an actual love life, during the show’s first season finale we learned that his Uncle Saul had a secret gay past of his own. Saul, played by Ron Rifkin, may well be the first mature gay man to come out on a network television drama. It's sure to be a fascinating and — if the first season is any indication — well-told story.

We recently spoke to Rifkin about his thoughts on playing such a challenging character, homophobia, and whether Kevin should get back together with Scotty. Oh, and he even compares Saul with Arvin Sloane, the villain he played for five seasons on Alias.

AfterElton: Thanks so much for talking to us, Ron.

Ron Rifkin: My pleasure.

AE: We get the sense that maybe Uncle Saul wasn't originally envisioned as a closeted gay character. At what point last season were you approached with this new twist in Saul's back story?

RR: How do you get the sense that he wasn't thought of initially as a closeted character?

AE: It just seemed to a lot of us that it was something that developed as the show went on. Some have thought maybe he was meant to be gay from the beginning, but many of us were caught by surprise. Was he always intended to be gay?

RR: You mean there were people who thought Saul might be gay? I'll tell you what's interesting about doing a series. On Alias, the first two years, there was a whole website devoted to the idea that Sloane might be Sydney's father. That took me totally by surprise. Whatever we think about our characters, there are people out there who think totally different things.

When Brothers & Sisters first started, I think the series was sort of an unformed child, and as time goes on, each child begins to find itself. I don't know that Saul really was defined that explicitly after the first ten or twelve episodes, and I think the writers were looking for something to make him more textured and more real and interesting and challenging — for the viewers and for me.

At some point, Robbie and David approached me about it. They had been thinking about it. I was very excited about the possibility of playing an older guy whose life had been a certain way and had lived in a certain time, and even though his family was obviously very close, and very intense, and very passionate, and loved and supported each other, he just had a secret.

AF: Given the Walker's acceptance of Kevin, why did Saul stay in the closet for so long? Is there a back-story there?

RR: I don't know enough about that yet, but I think there was a generation that just found that very difficult. We met their mother Ida very briefly, and I think that's going to be explored. We really haven't dealt with it yet, but we're about to in episode 7. What do you think? Why would somebody in their middle 60s keep that a secret?

AF: I think, as you said, that it's a generational thing. This is a very unique role, especially for network television. You rarely see mature gay men, and it's even rarer to get a coming out story for men that age, yet it's something that does happen.

RR: And I think, not to sound cocky about it, but it's an important thing to talk about. I don't think we've seen that in this kind of show and that's what excited the network and Robbie and David and Greg and I. I think they really wanted to talk about it.

AE: Have you done any research for the role at all?

RR: I have a tendency not to do much research. I don't think I need to do research. I live in a world that's very open and very filled with all different kinds of people. I think actors and artists in general live in a different kind of world. Well, you understand that.

AE: B&S certainly hasn't shied away from giving Kevin (played by Matthew Rhys) an active love life. Will there be any romance for Saul?

RR: I certainly hope so.

AE: If you could cast a male love interest for Saul, who would it be?

RR: Oh God, that's a hard one. I hadn't thought about that. I just hope it's not going to be conventional and have some young, pretty guy. I think Saul is more than that. Saul actually according to the last episode of last season, he did have somebody.

AE: That would be Milo Peterman, played by Michael Nouri.

RR: Right. He does come back, by the way.

AE: At this point into Season 2, do you know exactly what happened between your character and Milo Peterman all those years ago?

RR: [laughs] I wish I did! There's a scene in the third or fourth episode where we meet again and we do have some communication with each other, but I think it's a struggle for Saul. He's a very loving guy. All he has is his family. He loves those kids. I think he's confronting issues that have plagued him and, hopefully, he'll handle it with grace. And hopefully the world around him, that is to say his family, will embrace him for it.

AE: Do you think Saul will turn to Kevin for advice?

RR: Oh, I think there will be something between them. I think if I were a young man having come out to my family then find out I have an uncle who might be gay, I'd have issues with that. I'd either be excited about the possibility, if I were Kevin, or angry that he hadn't [come out]. As far as Saul is concerned, it feels like it might be problematic because he kept it a secret for so long.

[img_assist|nid=9213|title=|desc=|link=none|align=middle|width=400|height=221]

AE: The show has received criticism from some quarters that it was already too gay. Saul's coming out might only fuel more of that. Any thoughts?

RR: You know what I say to that? F**k that. I don't really care about that. I don't understand that kind of attitude. When you ask me a question like that, when somebody says "too gay," I don't understand what "too gay" means.

AE: There's still homophobia out there. Some folks don't want to see gay people on screen.

RR: Right. I can't give credence to that. I can't pay attention to that. I can't honor that kind of attitude. All I can really do is play a character who has integrity, who has the strength to be honest, the strength to be human, trying to figure out their life, and make it as good and filled with integrity as I possibly can.

AE: Are there any particular episodes coming up where Saul's coming out process will be front and center?

RR: I don't know about front and center. It's going to be more side and center, or side and front. This is going to be very challenging for Saul, and for the audience... and the network. I think it's challenging for the networks to bring this character out, to have two out characters on a prime time show that may be a hit and could go on for a while.

We know what the middle of this country is like. It needs to be done with care. I have to be patient with it if it's not front and center. Sometimes actors get impatient or a little itchy when their character isn't developing as fully and as quickly as they want it to. So I have to tell myself, just be patient. It's a thrilling possibility, but it has to be done right. You know what I mean?

AE: Yes, and as viewers, we need to be patient too.

RR: I have friends who are gay and lesbian who say, "Come on! We want more Saul! More Saul!" And I just say, please be patient. This is a brave character and a brave point of view, so let's just see how it turns out. It may not turn out well, but we have to wait for that.

AE: A popular topic of conversation on our site is whether Kevin should get back together with Scotty (Luke McFarlane). What do you think?

RR: As his uncle, as somebody who has become a surrogate father to the kids, I just want Kevin to be happy whoever he’s with. They're all such complicated kids. Do people really want him to get back with Scotty?

AE: Some do. It's kind of split.

RR: What about you?

AE: I'm like you. I'd just like to see him happy.

RR: Kevin is a complicated character.

AE: Especially for network television.

RR: Yeah! I think it's fantastic. I'm so thrilled that he's played with such intelligence. He's so articulate. And Matt is such a fantastic actor.

AE: Has it been different with Greg Berlanti not being around as much?

RR: No, I think he's around as much this season as he was last season. He's in touch with the writers. Robin Baitz, his voice is a profound voice on the show. He created the characters. You know, I've done all his plays. As a matter of fact, I did a play of his last year in LA and New York called "A Paris Letter" in which I played a character who had a secret also. Fantastic play. It's specifically about that kind of character.

AE: There's also been some criticism of the show's portrayal of Republicans, that Kitty and Senator McAllister aren't terribly representative of the sorts of Republicans that actually wield power in this country. What are your thoughts on that?

RR: Well, I mean, the writers are really trying to present all points of view. There are liberal Republicans. We know who they are. I think if the show takes a stand with a certain kind of Republican, then that's what the show is talking about. There are plenty of other shows, and plenty of other channels — and we know what those channels are — that have conservative Republicans. That's not what this show wants to talk about.

The fact that this family is divided politically is fascinating to me, and interesting to me, and appropriate to me. I don't think a family like this would have a very conservative Republican, but the fact that Kitty is a Republican and has fallen in love with a Republican who has that kind of political view — Bravo!

AE: What was the mood on the set after Sally Field won the Emmy?

RR: You know it's got to be exciting. I wasn't there that day, I was there the day after, but we were thrilled. Any attention the show gets we're all excited about.

AE: How did she feel about being censored? What was the cast's reaction?

RR: I can't answer that. I really don't know. I think she was just trying to make a statement about how she felt about the war. Saying “Goddamn”, again, we're talking about what does that mean? Some people found that offensive.

AE: Are you at all surprised that the show not only survived its turbulent first season, but Sally won an Emmy and the show appears to be strong going into its second season?

RR: I believe in the show, so I guess I'm not surprised. I'm thrilled. I think basically, this business is so odd, there's always an element of surprise if something finds popularity. It's so difficult, and so few shows become popular. You know, Alias was not such a big, huge hit. It was sort of an underground hit. I don't think I was surprised, just thrilled.

[img_assist|nid=9214|title=|desc=|link=none|align=middle|width=400|height=260]

AE: Speaking of Alias, how would you compare Saul Holden with Arvin Sloane?

RR: Arvin Sloane became, through the years, an iconic villain. I didn't know until the fourth season how evil he was. I certainly didn't play him as evil. I played him as a man who had a passion, who was interested in saving the world. Saul is a totally different character. He's filled with love, filled with humor, filled with a robust energy for life. He loves wine, loves food, loves his family. He's just thrilled with everything going on around him. He's highly intelligent, highly interested in things of the flesh and the spirit. He's just an open, loving guy. Arvin was closed and secretive and hidden. The only thing that's closed about Saul was his closet door.

AE: My editor wants to know what was up with Arvin's constantly drinking water.

RR: [laughs] So do I want to know that! That also started from the blogs. People came up with the idea that every time Arvin Sloane drank water, something bad was going to happen. So we put it in every script, and every time we went to block a scene, I'd be like, "Can I have some water?" They even made an action figure of Arvin Sloane, and he's holding a glass of water.

The people who produce and write the shows read those things. I never read them because I'm afraid they'll say something bad about me. One time I did. I went on Television Without Pity and they said something like, "I love my Arvin Sloane, but I wish he wouldn't take his shirt off." So I never read it again. I was always teasing Victor [Garber] because he'd never take his shirt off and I had to take my shirt off many times.

AE: How was it going from a high-action, fantastical show like Alias to a drama like B&S? Do you have a preference?

RR: No, I don't have a preference. I was very challenged with Sloane because I'm so different from Sloane. There are so many elements of myself in Saul that I can bring to it. I'm looking forward to the complexity of Saul's secret life and my relationships with all my family. I'm looking forward to playing that. I'm looking forward to speaking for a character who has a complicated side to his life and what that will mean for people out there who have similar kinds of issues to deal with.

I think that's important. Because I live in New York and I'm basically of the theater, I really don't have a sense of how we affect people's lives, we in film or whatever. In theater, you really do get a sense every night after the show how you affect people because they tell you. We see it. We hear it during curtain call or as we leave the theater.

On television, it's quite different. Picking up on last year's Chanukah/Christmas episode where I lit Chanukah candles during a scene, people came up to me and thanked me. They said they appreciated that being on the air and stuff like that. One starts to get an idea of how valuable and how important television can be.

What a responsibility it is — on every level — Matthew playing that character, me beginning to play this character, and what that represents. I think it's an enormous responsibility, and I feel it should be taken seriously and should be honored. And I guess that's what AfterElton.com is about in some ways. That's why you have that. That's why it's so important to you all, to all of us.

AE: We interviewed Greg Berlanti and Matthew Rhys last season and asked both of them to name some of their favorite Brothers & Sisters scenes. Can you tell us some of yours?

RR: I think the scene I filmed with Sally when I told her there was a daughter with Holly, I think that was a highly emotional scene for both of us. Then there was another scene with Sally and I on a staircase, where she was having a date in a restaurant and I was having a date with Holly, and she was a little tipsy, and I couldn't control myself from laughing.

Both scenes were really a tremendous indication of how much this brother and sister love each other. The scenes that show that kind of love and that kind of emotion for me are really important. Like that scene with Matthew that I had in my office when he gets really pissed off with me for telling his mother — it may have been the same episode — and he comes to my office and challenges me. Matthew and I had never had a chance to play a scene together, and I got really, really pissed off. Matthew, at one point, looked at me and said, "Ron, wow! I didn't know you had that side of you." I think that's always something, when you're working with somebody who you really enjoy working with and all the stuff that just happens.

AE: Ron, thank you so much for taking the time to do this interview. I've really enjoyed talking to you and I think our readers will enjoy reading it as well.

RR: Good! Just know that I am treating this character with as much respect, and as much dignity, and as much humanity, and as much love as I possibly can, because I feel it's to be paid attention to.