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Official Discussion - Challengers [SPOILERS]
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Summary:
Tashi, a former tennis prodigy turned coach is married to a champion on a losing streak. Her strategy for her husband's redemption takes a surprising turn when he must face off against his former best friend and Tashi's former boyfriend.
Director:
Luca Guadagnino
Writers:
Justin Kuritzkes
Cast:
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Zendaya as Tashi Donaldson
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Mike Faist as Art Donaldson
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Josh O'Connor as Patrick Zweig
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Darnell Appling as New Rochelle Umpire
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Nada Despotovitch as Tashi's Mother
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A.J. Lister as Lily
Rotten Tomatoes: 92%
Metacritic: 85
VOD: Theaters
The pay off when Patrick placed the tennis ball mid racket in the final match was INCREDIBLE.
Such great non verbal storytelling.
It’s also so so funny just how long it’s drawn out for. You’re waiting for it, but then Patrick doesn’t do it and has a bad serve, then that happens again, and then the third time he takes so long that he gets a time violation for it, and it’s all in slow motion. Guadagnino over here edging the audience for the payoff
I knew it was coming but it was devious as fuck.
Yeah you wait for it and then eventually give up on it happening until finally you see the smile and you're treated with the payoff.
That scene will be studied in film schools around the world one day.
All that sweat dripping was just 🥵
Yep. You are expecting it during the rest of the match, and it doesn’t come.
And then Patrick does it, you understand, and then he smirks. The gag of the century.
And that shit is the thing that gets Art to finally play good tennis. As Tashi described it earlier in the film, that moment about was their relationship.
That payoff honestly was incredible
...that's exactly what they just said. Like, you didn't even mix it up and use a synonym for payoff or incredible.
I KNEW that was going to come up again as soon as I saw it. But I liked how they set it up anyways.
I was on the edge of my seat waiting for it. Great scene.
Man, everyone in New Rochelle must’ve been so confused by that match.
Or turned on. Choose your fancy
Definitely both…for me anyways.
The entire movie was so sexually charged. Like... Damn! Who needs porn?
It was riveting, I'm so sad it's over 😂
Any tennis match that leaves you confused and hard is a good game
That final scene where the camera follows the POV of the tennis ball bouncing rapidly between 2 players, then seamlessly transitions into an aerial view of the court - chef's kiss
I absolutely love that Luca is not afraid to explore some crazy shots like that. I don’t think the stylized shots work 100% of the time, but when they do work, boy do they work.
yup, towards the end the stylistic choices started to get a little repetitive and then that last match editing pulled me right back in. That shot was beautiful
"Why is this movie in IMA- oh that's why"
How else could the audience fully appreciate the erotic tension oozing from churros sugar dust on Patrick's face
The final match point was just insane. So many different camera angles and points of view.
I love how the camera occasionally looked at them from
abovebelow, like the court was made of glass.I loved the churros scene. The way Patrick pulled Art’s seat in closer with his foot before he sat down, the symbolism of the churros. It was so homoerotic haha.
It’s so insane they only kissed once when we all know they wanted each other the whole time
I think Patrick REALLY wanted Art but I don't think Art was all that into Patrick. Maybe some attraction but in terms of feelings, Patrick seemed to me like he was more into Art than he was into Tashi even. But Art was completely devoted and smitten by Tashi that it left no room for anyone else
I kinda agree. I think Tashi was into Patrick and Art in different ways, Art into Tashi and Patrick into Tashi but if Art came out to him and said 'I been in love with you all of this time' then Patrick would have flown into the sun.
Having said that I think they all needed each other in some way even if not all in equal meaaure romantically.
Like I want to note that when Patrick and Tashi were making out back in college or whatever. Tashi kept talking abt Art and altho the topic was Patrick saying sorry for not caring Art like Tashi, it feels like some of his interest in Tashi was fuelled by the fact Art wanted her and Tashi knew that.
Because not once did I ever feel that Patrick was jealous of Art but I did feel that that the sauna convo was Patrick wanting Art to be sorry for walking away from their friendship/relationship because he loved Tashi, he very much wanted Art to say 'You matter to me and I missed you' and it hurt him deeply that he didn't say it.
100% agree on the sauna conversation. He was needling because he was hurt
I also love the subtle nod to Pat being bi when he was on Tinder. He slightly hesitates when a guy comes up and swipes away
or with the guys in the hotel, or how he was much more open about the jacking off story, or showing off his dick at the sauna lmao Pat was for sure bi, not even subtly
Didn’t he swipe right? Besides the fact that he’s seeing men at all must mean he checked them as a preference
Yeah and that scene, just like most where it's just two characters talking, was filmed very intimately where there was no sense of personal space.
You know a movie’s really good when you’re amazed by it and it’s mostly just people talking
Was the churro supposed to be a penis?
There’s a lot of phallic symbolism in the movie, so it’s definitely implied.
Did the penises in the locker room also symbolize a penis?
Nope. They were there to represent churros.
I knew I wasn’t just seeing things. I noticed how Patrick ate the churro straight up but Art ate it in pieces
when Art took a big bite of the churro when Patrick offered it to him 👀 love the symbolism
Ah so instead of a peach that was jizzed into and fed to a kid; they use a churro?
Luca things baby
Oh my god that was such a good piece of acting.
Finally, a movie whose answer to love triangles is “you know, polyamory could’ve saved everyone a lot of trouble”
I don't really think that's the case lol. They needed to cut zendaya out of the picture and just be together or find a woman that wasn't going to pit them against each other. (But also yes this movie is about competition and they all three fuel that fire somehow through their toxicity)
They wouldn't be shit without Tashi.
That is what I find fascinating about this dynamic. Tashi is not from privilege. Everything she does is calculated. She has sponsors, a foundation, is the next big thing but still decides to go to college. And she chooses Art because he is pliable.
She is more sexually attracted to Patrick but he is someone who has skated by off of talent alone. He doesn't want to be coached, he doesn't have that passion. Where would she be if she had stayed with him? Divorced? Trying to get back into coaching?
Patrick was always more talented that Art but Art became a champion. She pushed him and coached him to be one of the best players in the world. He had that drive she recognized. He understood tennis.
Obviously she is not without her faults but to them she was a trophy, to her it was always a business decision. And without Tashi they would both be could have beens. And she didn't really pit them against each other. They did that themselves.
I have to disagree with one thing. I don’t think Patrick DIDNT have the passion, if anything I felt he was more serious about tennis and actually loved the game, but Tashi chose Art because he was safer and more malleable. she liked that Patrick was a challenge/threat to her knowledge, and maybe she did only like him sexually but he was the only one who saw through her facade.
I disagree. Patrick was willing to throw a match to Art. And you could say he was doing that for a friend but even he says it doesn't matter. The moment they met Tashi she talks about "what tennis means" Art gets it, Patrick doesn't. You see this when he asks her to coach him because "he can make a run at the open". Even she knows, he could have done that every year if really put in the work.
I think Patrick has a personality that would stand up to Tashi. If they had stayed together she would hate him because she wants to build an empire and he's happy living out his car even though he has rich parents.
I don't think Tashi has a facade. I think she told them both exactly what she was about when they met.
That's how most Polyamorous/ENM relationships end up anyways lmao.
Only slightly joking.
Yeah, I admittedly oversimplified for the joke.
But also, I wouldn’t put all the onus on Zendaya. She may’ve started things by offering her number to whoever won that first match, but they all played a hand in it by the end. Art tried and arguably succeeded in breaking them up in college, and then Patrick hammered in what might be the final nail in Tashi and Art’s marriage by asking her to be his trainer and insinuating (rightly so, but still) that Art was yesterday’s news.
But also, yeah, cheating on your husband isn’t good, hope that goes without saying
I don’t really think that anything Art said broke them up. He just made sure he was right there when it ended.
I agree he didn’t break them up, but he was definitely poking at the cracks in their relationship. Which is a shitty thing to do as a friend. Also, him yelling at Zweig in the medical room was SUPER shitty. He was taking advantage of her emotions in that moment.
I don’t think their relationship was gonna last, but he certainly added fuel to the fire. He told Patrick that Tashi wasn’t serious about the relationship, which made Patrick self-conscious when she was still trying to talk about tennis as they were making out. And his comments to Tashi about Patrick not loving her were certainly bouncing around her head in that same argument, as Patrick is diminishing her one passion and wouldn’t be, as he puts it, ‘a cheerleader for her’. Patrick even calls Art out on his comments to him when they’re eating the churros, and Art doesn’t really deny it.
Whether Art was instrumental in their breakup is debatable, for sure, but the dude tried.
When your bro teaches you how to stroke the racket you don’t let him go
Funny how there's very little sex present here and it's still perhaps the most horn dog movie I've ever seen. Those tennis matches in IMAX, man...
Loved this.
Ha zendayas character explicitly said it early on, when you’re playing good tennis its like making love
and all she wants is to see some good fucking/tennis!
And the boys' grunts sounded a lot like moaning. Lol
There is a great moment with the camera focused on Tashi and the boys are grunting / moaning
The hottest churro scene in all of film history
I think this is my favourite part, incredible acting and some wonderful cinematography aside it's so erotic but without being overtly sexual? It's like a constant tease in the best way
It's actually insane how much chemistry the three leads had? All of their relationship dynamics were so believable and I couldn't get enough of it. I know everyone is saying how much of a powerhouse Zendaya is (which, obviously, she is) but wow the three of them together works so well.
never did i not think Patrick or Art were not in love with her. The whole first part of the movie where they watch her play, meet her at the party, and hangout in the hotel room is one of the most authentic series of scenes that's been put to screen. Everything just clicked and felt like three 18 year olds having the hots for each other. Not once did i think "these are actors playing a roll"
The scene where Art and Patrick are moving around the party in unison like they're sharing a brain is amazing.
Also "He's asking for your number. And so am I."
Call me by your name was surpassed by this movie with the speed of light in terms of my desire to see 2 dudes getting together.
They’re all great but Josh O’Connor absolutely shines
He was very believable playing the young promising star to a washed up has-been.
I thought he played smarmy pretty well too.
yeah, he has a great hateable smirk.
So troublesome and sexy
Such strong sleazy rockstar rizz. I fucking loved it.
It's truly insane, and I loved it. Who are they marketing this tennis, love triangle, homoerotic tale staring Zendaya to? Lol. It's deep camp, but sort of takes itself seriously. I honestly don't know how to describe it. From the Billy Porter chair umpire, to the club music slow-mos when drama is about to go down, to the hail storm of tennis-as-life philosophizing, to the sweaty bare skin and asses and dicks (well not that many actual dicks, but still lots of symbolic dick), to that wonderfully absurd ending sequence. Plus, Mary Jo, Patrick McEnroe, Chris Fowler commentary cameos. I wasn't doing a ton of cackling, just consistently grinning and asking "what the fuck is this?" - in a good way. Hot, funny, sexy, unique.
Luca keeps giving the gays such great queer/homoerotic cinema. The fact that he snuck such a queer film about tennis into an IMAX event film is wild.
I appreciate all the different ways he did it - blatantly obvious, subtle undertones, throw away suggestive shots that mean something if you're looking close enough, symbolism (the churros, the banana at changeover). That he threw all of this into a tennis foundation sold me since I'm a life long tennis player.