1516 or 1517… Charles has refuted to marry Isabella of Portugal as he do NOT wanted marry her. An English/French princess of the right age would be a totally different thing
List of Alternate Monarchs and Aristocratic Lineage II
- Thread starter FalconHonour
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I do wonder why though. She had a big dowry, good lineage, and was quite pretty
It’s because Charles was primarily focused on his Burgundian lands, and the most beneficial match for Burgundy would be with an English or French princess.
She was a quite useless match from a Burgundian prospective as only a French or English match would bring an alliance useful to Burgundy AND worse was a match who the Spanish Cortes AND the King of Portugal tried to force upon him.
Francis I, King of France (b. 1494, d. 1547) m. Claude, Duchess of Brittany (b. 1499, d. 1524) [ @HortenseMancini @Kellan Sullivan @isabella ]
1) Louise, Princess of France (b. 1515, d. 1555) m. Charles V, Holy Roman Emperor (b. 1500, d. 1558)
2) Charlotte, Princess of France (b. 1516, d. 1558) m. James V, King of Scotland (b. 1512, d. 1542)
3) Francis III, Duke of Brittany (b. 1518, d. 1536) m. Maria, Duchess of Viseu (b. 1521, d. 1577)
4) Henry, Duke of Orléans (b. 1519, d. 1569) m. Catherine de' Medici, Countess of Auvergne (b. 1519, d. 1589)
5) Madeleine, Princess of France (b. 1520, d. 1537) m. Sigismund II Augustus, King of Poland (b. 1520, d. 1572)
6) Charles, Duke of Angoulême (b. 1522, d. 1575) m. Jeanne III, Queen of Navarre (b. 1528, d. 1572)
7) Margaret, Princess of France (b. 1523, d. 1574) m. Emmanuel Philibert, Duke of Savoy (b. 1528, d. 1580)
1) Louise, Princess of France (b. 1515, d. 1555) m. Charles V, Holy Roman Emperor (b. 1500, d. 1558)
2) Charlotte, Princess of France (b. 1516, d. 1558) m. James V, King of Scotland (b. 1512, d. 1542)
3) Francis III, Duke of Brittany (b. 1518, d. 1536) m. Maria, Duchess of Viseu (b. 1521, d. 1577)
4) Henry, Duke of Orléans (b. 1519, d. 1569) m. Catherine de' Medici, Countess of Auvergne (b. 1519, d. 1589)
5) Madeleine, Princess of France (b. 1520, d. 1537) m. Sigismund II Augustus, King of Poland (b. 1520, d. 1572)
6) Charles, Duke of Angoulême (b. 1522, d. 1575) m. Jeanne III, Queen of Navarre (b. 1528, d. 1572)
7) Margaret, Princess of France (b. 1523, d. 1574) m. Emmanuel Philibert, Duke of Savoy (b. 1528, d. 1580)
François III to Isabella Jagiellonika is more likely than Madeleine to @Zygmunt Stary 's son. Madeleine married to Emanuele Filiberto' s older brother, Ludovico, and potentially living longer thanks to a warmer climate in the south makes more sense. Marguerite could potentially wind up as either a second wife for João III of Portugal (if Catalina of Austria dies in childbed), Sigismund Augustus (not sure why Bona was more interested in Anna d'Este OTL, her Italian lands had already been willed to Isabella IIRC).
Charles d'Angoulême could easily wind up remaining as Zápolya's heir in Hungary (particularly if his brother marries Isabella) and wind up wed to a princess who'd help him in such ambitions. Like the margrave of Ansbach's daughter (if Georg the Pious has no son, a daughter by his Munsterberg wife will bring not only the Corvinus lands in Hungary and Habsburg descent from her dad but also open a potential avenue to the Bohemian crown as well)
Because I have to do one too:
Henry dies in 1528
Mary I of England (1516-1562) m. 1531 Duarte of Portugal (1515-1551)
1) Henry, Prince of Wales (b.1533) m. Joanna of Spain (b.1535)
2) Miscarriage (1534)
3) Edward, Duke of York (b.1536) m. Lady Jane Grey (b.1537)
4) Stillborn daughter (1538)
5) Katherine, Queen of Scotland (b.1541) m. Arthur, King of Scots (b.1541) [1]
6) John, Duke of Pembroke (1544-1547) [2]
7) Miscarriage (1546)
8) Mary, Queen of France (b. 1547) m. Francis II of France (b.1544)
9) Eleanor (1549-1554)
[1] Surviving son of James V and Marie de Guise
[2] Butterflies give Hal Fitzroy a son with Mary Howard - I can't see that Norfolk wouldn't want to tie his family to that of a quasi-royal double Duke , regardless of who sits the throne, meaning Mary can't name her son Duke of either Richmond or Somerset...
Henry dies in 1528
Mary I of England (1516-1562) m. 1531 Duarte of Portugal (1515-1551)
1) Henry, Prince of Wales (b.1533) m. Joanna of Spain (b.1535)
2) Miscarriage (1534)
3) Edward, Duke of York (b.1536) m. Lady Jane Grey (b.1537)
4) Stillborn daughter (1538)
5) Katherine, Queen of Scotland (b.1541) m. Arthur, King of Scots (b.1541) [1]
6) John, Duke of Pembroke (1544-1547) [2]
7) Miscarriage (1546)
8) Mary, Queen of France (b. 1547) m. Francis II of France (b.1544)
9) Eleanor (1549-1554)
[1] Surviving son of James V and Marie de Guise
[2] Butterflies give Hal Fitzroy a son with Mary Howard - I can't see that Norfolk wouldn't want to tie his family to that of a quasi-royal double Duke , regardless of who sits the throne, meaning Mary can't name her son Duke of either Richmond or Somerset...
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May I ask why? It's still a Franco-Polish marriage either way
I mean, if his sister-in-law here is instead Maria of Viseu....I also do not see how he'd be Zapolya's heir with two brothers ahead of him. Please explain to me - I don't know
And because it hasn't been done yet:
Henry and Mary both die before May 1536.
Elizabeth I of England, Queen of Navarre (1533-1603) m. Jean, King of Navarre (1530-1588) [1]
1) George I of England and Navarre (b.1551)
2) Anne, Queen of Denmark (b.1552) m. Frederick II of Denmark (b.1534)
3) Miscarriage (1553)
4) Elizabeth, Queen of France (b.1554) m. Charles IX of France (b.1550)
5) John, Prince of Viana (1556-1562)
6) Margaret, Electress Palatine (b.1558) m. Ludwig Phillip, Elector Palatine (b.1561) [2]
7) Stillborn daughter (1560)
8) Miscarriage (1562)
[1] Butterflies pre 1533 keep Marguerite of Navarre's son alive TTL
[2] Anna Maria of the Palatine born male.
Henry and Mary both die before May 1536.
Elizabeth I of England, Queen of Navarre (1533-1603) m. Jean, King of Navarre (1530-1588) [1]
1) George I of England and Navarre (b.1551)
2) Anne, Queen of Denmark (b.1552) m. Frederick II of Denmark (b.1534)
3) Miscarriage (1553)
4) Elizabeth, Queen of France (b.1554) m. Charles IX of France (b.1550)
5) John, Prince of Viana (1556-1562)
6) Margaret, Electress Palatine (b.1558) m. Ludwig Phillip, Elector Palatine (b.1561) [2]
7) Stillborn daughter (1560)
8) Miscarriage (1562)
[1] Butterflies pre 1533 keep Marguerite of Navarre's son alive TTL
[2] Anna Maria of the Palatine born male.
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Francis wanted to bolster his line’s claim to Milan, so he would want his son to Bona’s daughter. His daughter to Bona’s son does nothing for his Italian ambitions.
because Sigismund the Old wanted his great-niece (any of Anna of Hungary's kids) as daughter-in-law. Bona wanted her eldest (and by her metric, only) daughter to be queen.
that was the terms of the treaty that François signed with Zapolya in 1527/28. Zapolya agreed to nominate one of François' younger sons as his heir. The choices would be thus between Henri (already married) and Charles (unmarried and who can make a decent match to a Hungarian heiress like one of the Ansbach girls)
Surely it would be more useful for everyone here if Elizabeth married an ATL son of Frances grey or James V…though I also wouldn’t discount the Duke of Norfolk trying to get her hitched with his grandson
As far as foreign candidates, I think a second son of Charles V would make more sense (pu with Low Countries versus pu with Navarre, the former is definitely more favorable for England)
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James V is too old for her, and I'd think the Boleyns would push for her to marry another monarch, if only to highlight her rank as the rightful monarch. However, the only one I could see being both of the right age bracket and willing to marry her, given the religious issues was a surviving Jean of Navarre. But I see your point. If Frederick II's brothers hadn't been so much younger than her, I might have gone for one of them... But then the idea of Anne's daughter marrying her old mentor's son was too adorable to pass up...
@HortenseMancini was talking about an ATL son of James V, NOT impossible if he had married a surviving Charlotte of France around 1531
Ah, misread. Apologies. Still, I just like the idea of Anne and Marguerite's children marrying..
Saxe-Lauenburg
Duke Magnus I of Saxe-Lauenburg (1470-1543) >< Catherine of Brunswick-Wolfenbüttel (1488-1563)
Duke Heinrich III of Brunswick-Lüneburg (1468-1532) >< Margaret of Saxony (1469-1528)
Duke Heinrich V of Brunswick-Wolfenbüttel (1489-1568) >< Maria of Montbéliard (1496-1541)
Duke Magnus I of Saxe-Lauenburg (1470-1543) >< Catherine of Brunswick-Wolfenbüttel (1488-1563)
A1. Duke Franz I of Saxe-Lauenburg (1510-1581) >< Sybille of Lusatia (1515-1592)
B1. Albert of Saxe-Lauenburg (1542-1544)
B2. Dorothea of Saxe-Lauenburg (1543-1586) >< Duke Wolfgang of Brunswick-Grubenhagen (1531-1595)
B3. Duke Magnus II of Saxe-Lauenburg (1543-1603) >< Sophia of Sweden (1547-1611)
C1. Birger of Saxe-Lauenburg (1570-1597)
B4. Ursula of Saxe-Lauenburg (1545-1620) >< Duke Heinrich I of Brunswick-Dannenberg (1533-1598)
B5. Duke Franz II of Saxe-Lauenburg (1547-1619) >< a. Margaret of Pomerania (1553-1581) b. Maria of Brunswick-Wolfenbüttel (1566-1626)
C1a. Maria of Saxe-Lauenburg (1576-1625) >< Duke Magnus I of Brunswick-Harburg (1577-1632)
C2a. Duke Magnus III of Saxe-Lauenburg (1577-1656)
C3a. Philipp of Saxe-Lauenburg (1578-1605)
C4a. Catherine of Saxe-Lauenburg (1580-1611) >< King Magnus VI of Sweden (1542-1614)
C5b. Duke Franz III of Saxe-Lauenburg (1584-1634)
C6b. Duke Julius of Saxe-Lauenburg (1586-1665)
C7b. Ernst of Saxe-Lauenburg (1587-1620)
C8b. Hedwig of Saxe-Lauenburg (1588-1635)
C9b. Sibylle of Saxe-Lauenburg (1589-1630)
B6. Bishop Heinrich IV of Paderborn (1550-1585)
B7. Duke Maurice of Saxe-Lauenburg (1551-1612)
B8. Sidonie of Saxe-Lauenburg (1552-1594) >< Duke Waclaw III of Cieszyn (1524-1579)
B9. Bishop Friedrich of Osnabrück (1554-1586)
A2. Dorothea of Saxe-Lauenburg (1511-1571) >< King Erik VII of Denmark (1503-1559)
A3. Catherine of Saxe-Lauenburg (1513-1535)
A4. Clara of Saxe-Lauenburg (1518-1576) >< Duke Franz of Brunswick-Gifhorn (1508-1549)
A5. Sophia of Saxe-Lauenburg (1521-1571) >< Count Anton of Oldenburg (1505-1548)
A6. Ursula of Saxe-Lauenburg (1523-1577) >< Duke Heinrich VI of Mecklenburg (1479-1552)
Brunswick-LüneburgDuke Heinrich III of Brunswick-Lüneburg (1468-1532) >< Margaret of Saxony (1469-1528)
A1. Elisabeth of Brunswick-Lüneburg (1494-1572) >< Count Arnold III of Egmond (1467-1538)
A2. Duke Otto VI of Brunswick-Lüneburg (1495-1549) >< Meta von Campe (1510-1580)
B1. Duke Otto VII of Brunswick-Lüneburg (1528-1603) >< a. Adelaide of Falkenstein (1533-1569) b. Anna of Oldenburg (1555-1603)
C1a. Otto of Brunswick-Lüneburg (1555-1591)
C2a. Archbishop Philipp III of Köln (1557-1619)
C3a. Sophia of Brunswick-Lüneburg (1563-1639) >< Count Friedrich of Hohenlohe-Langenburg (1553-1590)
C4a. Duke Wilhelm IV of Brunswick-Lüneburg (1564-1642) >< Elisabeth of Brunswick-Wolfenbüttel (1567-1618)
D1. Otto of Brunswick-Lüneburg (1590-1600)
C5a. Werner of Brunswick-Lüneburg (1565-1600)
C6a. Abbess Anna IV of Quedlinburg (1567-1643)
C7a. Heinrich of Brunswick-Lüneburg (1568-1569)
C8a. Hedwig of Brunswick-Lüneburg (1569-1620) >< Count Wilhelm I of Schwarzburg-Frankenhausen (1534-1597)
C9b. Duke Friedrich II of Brunswick-Lüneburg (1574-1608) >< Hedwig of Brunswick-Wolfenbüttel (1580-1657)
D1. Duke Otto VIII of Brunswick-Lüneburg (1602-1663) >< Anna of Falkenstein (1601-1659)
E1. Duke Friedrich III of Brunswick-Lüneburg (1628-1666)
C10b. Maria of Brunswick-Lüneburg (1575-1610)
C11b. Duke Eric III of Brunswick-Calenberg (1577-1641) >< Agnes of Falkenstein (1604-1665)
D1. Duke Eric IV of Brunswick-Calenberg (1622-1665)
D2. Duke Wilhelm V of Brunswick-Lüneburg (1624-1705)
D3. Duke Johann of Brunswick-Calenberg (1625-1679)
D4. Sophia of Brunswick-Calenberg (1628-1685)
D5. Duke Otto I of Brunswick-Calenberg (1629-1698)
B2. Margaret of Brunswick-Lüneburg (1532-1559) >< King Eystein VIII of England (1532-1598)
B3. Susanna of Brunswick-Lüneburg (1536-1581) >< Duke Albert X of Mecklenburg-Schwerin (1525-1576)
A3. Duke Ernst of Brunswick-Lüneburg (1497-1546) >< Sophia of Mecklenburg (1508-1541)
B1. Duke Franz of Brunswick-Lüneburg (1530-1559)
B2. Friedrich of Brunswick-Lüneburg (1532-1533)
B3. Duke Heinrich I of Brunswick-Dannenberg (1533-1598) >< Ursula of Saxe-Lauenburg (1545-1620)
C1. Dukes of Brunswick-Dannenberg
B4. Margaret of Brunswick-Lüneburg (1534-1596) >< Count Johann of Mansfeld-Hinterort (1526-1567)
B5. Duke Wilhelm I of Brunswick-Harburg (1535-1592) >< Dorothea of Denmark (1546-1617)
C1. Duke Ernst I of Brunswick-Harburg (1564-1611)
C2. Elisabeth of Brunswick-Harburg (1565)
C3. Duke Christian of Brunswick-Harburg (1566-1633)
C4. Duke Augustus of Brunswick-Harburg (1568-1636)
C5. Dorothea of Brunswick-Harburg (1570-1649)
C6. Clara of Brunswick-Harburg (1571-1658)
C7. Ursula of Brunswick-Harburg (1572-1601)
C8. Margaret of Brunswick-Harburg (1573-1643) >< Margrave Johann Casimir of Saxe-Zwickau (1564-1633)
C9. Duke Magnus I of Brunswick-Harburg (1577-1632) >< Maria of Saxe-Lauenburg (1576-1625)
C10. Sybille of Brunswick-Harburg (1580-1651)
B6. Ursula of Brunswick-Lüneburg (1536)
B7. Catherine of Brunswick-Lüneburg (1537-1538)
B8. Elisabeth of Brunswick-Lüneburg (1539-1586) >< Count Otto IV of Holstein-Schaumburg (1517-1576)
B9. Magdalena of Brunswick-Lüneburg (1540-1586) >< Count Arnold of Bentheim-Steinfurt (1538-1566)
B10. Sophia of Brunswick-Lüneburg (1541-1631) >< Count Poppo XII of Henneberg-Schleusingen (1513-1574)
A4. Apollonia of Brunswick-Lüneburg (1499-1571)
A5. Anna of Brunswick-Lüneburg (1502-1568) >< Count Adolf XIV of Holstein-Pinneberg (1488-1533)
A6. Duke Franz of Brunswick-Gifhorn (1508-1549) >< Clara of Saxe-Lauenburg (1518-1576)
B1. Catherine of Brunswick-Gifhorn (1548-1565)
B2. Clara of Brunswick-Gifhorn (1550-1598) >< Duke Bogislaw XI of Pomerania (1544-1606)
Brunswick-WolfenbüttelDuke Heinrich V of Brunswick-Wolfenbüttel (1489-1568) >< Maria of Montbéliard (1496-1541)
A1. Margaret of Brunswick-Wolfenbüttel (1516-1580) >< Johann, Duke of Munsterberg-Oels (1509-1565)
A2. Catherine of Brunswick-Wolfenbüttel (1518-1574) >< Burgrave Johann V of Nuremberg (1513-1571)
A3. Maria of Brunswick-Wolfenbüttel (1521-1559) >< King Konrad III of Sweden (1516-1558)
A4. Karl of Brunswick-Wolfenbüttel (1525-1553)
A5. Philipp of Brunswick-Wolfenbüttel (1527-1553)
A6. Duke Julius of Brunswick-Wolfenbüttel (1528-1589) >< Hedwig of Nuremberg (1540-1602)
B1. Sophia of Brunswick-Wolfenbüttel (1561-1631) >< Duke Eric II of Pomerania-Stargard (1545-1592)
B2. Duke Heinrich VI of Brunswick-Wolfenbüttel (1564-1613) >< a. Dorothea of Saxony (1563-1587) b. Elisabeth of Denmark (1573-1626)
C1a. Dorothea of Brunswick-Wolfenbüttel (1587-1609)
C2b. Duke Friedrich II of Brunswick-Wolfenbüttel (1591-1634)
C3b. Sophia of Brunswick-Wolfenbüttel (1592-1642)
C4b. Elisabeth of Brunswick-Wolfenbüttel (1593-1650)
C5b. Hedwig of Brunswick-Wolfenbüttel (1595-1650) >< Duke Ulrich of Pomerania-Demmin (1589-1622)
C6b. Dorothea of Brunswick-Wolfenbüttel (1596-1643)
C7b. Heinrich of Brunswick-Wolfenbüttel (1597-1606)
C8b. Duke Eric I of Brunswick-Wolfenbüttel (1599-1626)
C9b. Duke Rudolf of Brunswick-Wolfenbüttel (1602-1616)
C10b. Karl of Brunswick-Wolfenbüttel (1609)
C11b. Anna of Brunswick-Wolfenbüttel (1612-1673)
B3. Maria of Brunswick-Wolfenbüttel (1566-1626) >< Duke Franz II of Saxe-Lauenburg (1547-1619)
B4. Elisabeth of Brunswick-Wolfenbüttel (1567-1618) >< Duke Wilhelm IV of Brunswick-Lüneburg (1564-1642)
B5. Philipp of Brunswick-Wolfenbüttel (1568-1623)
B6. Joachim of Brunswick-Wolfenbüttel (1573-1615)
B7. Dorothea of Brunswick-Wolfenbüttel (1577-1625)
B8. Julius of Brunswick-Wolfenbüttel (1578-1617)
B9. Hedwig of Brunswick-Wolfenbüttel (1580-1657) >< Duke Friedrich II of Brunswick-Lüneburg (1574-1608)
A7. Clara of Brunswick-Wolfenbüttel (1532-1595) >< Duke Philipp II of Brunswick-Grubenhagen (1533-1596)
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I get that…maybe a better solution here would be to give Elizabeth a full brother who lives long enough that she marries Jean as the heiress presumptive and not the Queen regnant
Need I remind you the Habsburgs were fully willing to countenance a match between Elizabeth and otl Philip ii at multiple points. Now I can’t see that being proposed if Elizabeth is already queen but if philip’s brother John (b. 1534) survives or Infanta joanna (b. 1535) is born a male then I’m sure all parties involved would happy to see a marriage between John, king of the Netherlands and Elizabeth, queen of England, regardless of religious issues (and remember Henry viii’s church was very high church, pretty much exactly Catholicism without the pope, and the Howards were very catholic)