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On the door in blood PIG
I cannot fathom finding loved ones dead with horrible messages written in their own fucking blood.
He didn't give a flying fuck about her. He left her alone those days because he was too busy cheating on her and he couldn't " bear to see her that bloated" and "hated what pregnancy did to her" although she kept asking him to come back sooner. He programmed the return the day of her due date.
He didn't want a kid so she hit the pregnancy from him out of fear that he will make her terminate it.
He was too busy being a child predator. Not cheating.
Yeah there's a reason why it's difficult for him to travel to the US
He also cheated with women around his own age. Specifically, friends of his and Sharon’s. Including Michelle Phillips. I can’t imagine how humiliating that had to have been for Sharon.
She did many photo shoots pregnant, he knew. And as big of a dirt bag as he may be he didn’t deserve to have his kid cut out of his wife.
They didn’t cut the baby out of her, that was a rumor. All of the victims were stabbed
He knew of course but not until it was not possible to terminate it anymore.
I didn't say he deserved it, he said " finding loved ones" , I was challenging the idea that he loved her or the kid.
I heard that also. The man had no love in his heart for anyone.
Where are you getting this info?
Most of it came out during the trial. They also found sex tapes in the attic of Tate having sex with other men and Polanski’s voice in the background. He did a lot of weird shit
I think the housekeeper found them
This would fuck up anyone
And Trent Reznor moved into that house for a while. When he left for the place that he would turn into the next recording studio he took the door with him. It's still there but the building is now a lawyers or real estate or something
This house is also where Reznor recorded the album “the downward spiral”.
I didn't know that. Holy Fuck.
Look up who re-wrote pig on the door and you will learn more fun facts while you simultaneously try and bleach out the memory of what you just read. Fucked up
...which I am listening to now.
The house was demolished in 1994. I understand that there is a new building on the property, but it is not the original.
There's no building at all any more. A house was built a little further down into the canyon and given the address 10070 Cielo Drive.
Maybe I didn't write correctly. When I said 'it's still there' I meant the door after it had been taken to New Orleans, not the house which I know was demolished and rebuilt upon.
Anyway, I was wrong. During hurricane Katrina a lot of buildings were destroyed including the one housing the door. That door was recovered and is now in the hands of a collector. At some point it was painted grey and I don't think you can see any of the 'pig' blood writing.
Wow, that's a heavy conversation piece.
Nether that house nor that address, 10050 Cielo Drive, exists anymore. Slightly further down the canyon is its replacement, 10070 Cielo Drive. The only thing remaining on the original plot of land is a telephone pole.
Google Maps is showing a hit for 10050...
https://maps.app.goo.gl/9V6gnotyvfMkC28d8
Although according to Wikipedia, that is actually 10066 (yours for $50M, lol) but that's not what Google Maps says. Also, apparently the only remaining thing from the time it was 10050 is a single pine tree.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/10050_Cielo_Drive
Just to be clear, I wasn't talking about 10050, I was talking about the place in New Orleans that Trent moved to after living at 10050.
Oh ok. Thank you for the clarification. I forgot if it eas a tree or a telephone pole, but you're right, it's an empty spot apart from that.
The video for Gave Up was recorded in that house: https://youtu.be/yVpw1SwJRBI?feature=shared
The Gave Up video was recorded in the guest house.
Why did they kill her? And why PIG?
I think it's popularly believed now that it may have actually been a mistake. They went to the house intending to murder the previous occupant, a record producer that Manson thought had screwed him over, but Melcher had moved out, and Polanski/Tate were living there. Being a bunch of tripped-out cultists living in the desert, the Manson Family hadn't gotten the memo. They showed up at the house with orders from Manson to "totally destroy everyone in there," or something to that effect, and to be as gruesome about it as possible. Tate and her friends were who were there, so that's who they murdered. That being said, Manson approached the house prior to the murders and had been told that Melcher didn't live there anymore, but he was also high at the time, so....
There were five people killed: Sharon Tate, her friend/ex Jay Sebring, Wojciech Frykowski (a friend of Polanski's), Abigail Folger (Frykowski's girlfriend), and Steven Parent (a friend of the caretaker who had happened to have the bad luck to be leaving the property when Manson's followers showed up). Sharon Tate, famously, was pregnant with Polanski's child. Quincy Jones had apparently also been invited that evening, but didn't go, lucky for him.
The "PIG" on the door was an attempt to copycat the murder scene of Gary Hinman and get the Manson follower held for that murder out of jail. There are also ties to the Beatles White album and such, but that's the gist.
I read about the Folger (coffee heiress) murder recently, when her killer was up for parole. So gruesome. It was not quick.
No, they definitely followed Manson's instructions to make the whole thing horrifying right down to the letter. Poor Steven Parent might have gotten away (or at least scared the others away by removing the ringleader) if he'd responded to Tex Watson stepping out by gunning his engine and just driving over him, but he had no way of knowing exactly what they had planned. Like most reasonable people would, he probably assumed initially that it was a burglary.
Every aspect of the murders is chilling.
The actor Steve McQueen was suppose to be there also. But he didn’t go because he was banging one of his groupies. That night at a hotel.
Why was the friend of the caretaker there in the first place? Stop to see his friend?
Yep, exactly. He had stopped by to see the caretaker, and from what I read, he happened to be in his car, pulling up to the estate's gate just as the Mansion Family people were climbing around the gate through some shrubs or something. They told him to stop, he did, and they shot him a bunch of times. I assume he figured it was a burglary, but Jesus, talk about bad timing.
In Steve McQueen's case, no better time to be getting laid than when it means not getting violently murdered, I guess. Though you wonder what they would have done if they'd gone in there and found someone as famous and recognizable as Steve McQueen. Probably nothing good.
Melcher hung out with the Family after the murders and nothing happened to him. It is unlikely he was a truly intended victim.
Melcher hung out with the Family after the murders. It is highly unlikely he was ever a truly intended target.
Why did they target his family? Or was it a coincidence?
Manson was targeting someone else who used to live there; Manson wasn’t aware that person had moved out.
Yikes
He was. He was circling the area after they moved there, he was spotted by a friend in the garden watching them. but it wasn't usual and didn't raise any suspicions because people were going in and out of their house often. The friend even came out and talked with Manson, asked him who was looking for. They threw many parties at that time so it wasn't unusual for strangers to be around.
He knew who lived there, but still wanted to send a message to the previous owner. Also he/they changed the reason a few times if I am not mistaken.
This is also untrue, the theory that he wanted to scare Melcher was made up by Vincent Bugliosi. Melcher was seen with Manson after the murders.
Also Quincy Jones was supposed to be at that party, but canceled last minute.
Steve McQueen was also invited as well.
What about Lightning?
Wow, didn't know about Quincy Jones but did know about Steve McQueen.
Rick James also
So was Louis Gossett JR and some of the Mamas and the Papas.
Who did he think lived there? Who was the intended target?
Terry Melcher who was a record producer. I think Terry worked with The Beatles. Manson tried to get a record deal and was rejected.
Terry worked with The Beach Boys and had let the family stay in his house for a hot minute.
Terry Melcher was Doris Day’s son.
Terry and Candice Begen were the targets.
Background info on Terry Melcher.
He was targeting Terry Melcher, the famous record producer who worked with the Beach Boys. Manson (who'd befriended Dennis Wilson) had hoped Melcher would get him a record deal, but it never happened, so Manson was POd at him. Melcher was also Doris Day's son. He'd lived in the house with his then-girlfriend Candace Bergen, but they'd moved out the previous year.
I know this. I was too lazy to write it all.
It's all good. There's always a lot of name dropping re: this case.
Who was he targeting
He was aware of who lived there and had been to the residence prior to the murders. He knew of the previous owners and the new owners. Read “Chaos” by Tom O’Neill
Something to do with Manson's entire Helter Skelter agenda. A bunch of hippies set to mass murder whoever lived in Terry Melcher's house (who he found out had already moved out).
Unfortunately it was Polanski and Sharon Tate's current residence but Roman was all the way in Europe when it occurred. Sharon was home with friends.
Sorry, I should look it up, but we're the Manson groupies high when they committed their crimes? Or had he broken them in stone other way?
It’s worth noting that it’s far less of “Manson was manipulating these people to be part of his murder cult” and more of “Manson was trying to keep together his drug/sex cult that was losing steam due to his music career never taking off, and his frantic attempts at maintaining control, using a race war doomsday narrative, coupled with the cult members being unstable and absolutely filled with drugs for months and months, led to murder”
Tex Watson for example was a fucking psychopath and that had fuck all to do with Charlie Manson’s “influence” on him.
I would assume they were. They were almost always on LSD. Manson pumped his hippies with all sorts of substances and at some point had them believing he was Jesus resurrected—still no excuse for the horrific shit they'd done though. Honestly wish they suffered more than they did after the trials.
There was one member who didn't kill anyone and ran his website, never repented for what she did. Sandra Good. When I was 10 years old, she moved in down the road from us. I was so scared, it was a big deal in the 1980s. I think she moved further out into the country, not sure.
They were famously not on LSD that night, because Manson wanted them sober and in control of their faculties.
As for how he "broke" them, he found people with violence in their hearts and fed into it with "us versus them" rhetoric, among other manipulation tactics, until they would do anything for them. And the reason I say people with violence in their hearts is that Manson tried to get other family members (specifically Linda Kasabian and TJ, among others) to kill for him and they wouldn't.
Manson was familiar with the house as Terry Melcher had once lived there. He wasn’t targeting Melcher since he knew that he had already moved out. They were going to kill whoever was there that night, and they did.
Yeah according to Susan Watkins, the choice of that house was meant as a message to Terry, but he himself was not the target.
Manson visited the property five months before the murders asking for Terry Melcher, according to sharon’s photographer/friend Sharhokh hatami’s testimony. Hatami informed him the former resident had moved out in January. Manson knew it was no longer occupied by Melcher but still chose the house. Whether or not he knew who exactly lived there, he knew it was someone rich and famous and he wanted his followers to kill everyone there as brutally as they could. And seeing as Susan Atkins bragged in prison about killing sharon, somehow it makes it feel even more sickening knowing they were so thrilled to kill total strangers to them. Such incomprehensible evil it’s almost unbelievable
There are already some answers here, but the truth is: we don’t know, and we likely never will. Manson & the members of the Manson family all give different reasons for it. Manson was the leader, so he’s likely the only one who actually knows, but he’s also a massive liar so we can’t really trust him.
His version of things is that it was initially some sort of drug deal gone bad resulting in the death of Gary Hinman, causing one of his group members to get arrested. A lot of other things supposedly happened, but the short version is that someone else in their group hatched up a plan to create a copycat murder at the Tate house. They supposedly chose the Tate house because Tex Watson (Mansons second) had been to a party there once.
Obviously this is pretty unbelievable, because it takes away almost all of Mansons culpability. Also, we do know that Manson was also familiar with the tate house, as he used to work with its former owner, and he had a serious grudge against him. With that said, there is a lot of reason to believe that he knew the former owner had moved out.
Thanks, its the kind of situation that frustrates me to read about. I know there's often little closure in cases of pointless crime like this so sometimes it's better to leave the rock they are under as it is.
The former resident was Teddy Melcher, who worked in the music business. He rejected Manson, who at the time looking to get signed by a label. Melcher and Candice Bergen were living in the house before Tate and Polanski and would have been their intended targets.
They were after Doris Day’s son, Terry Melcher.
Obviously didn't care about getting Melcher too much as he went out to the ranch after the murders.
Not sure if he squared it with Manson. The mad twat was adamant he’d been cheated over some song rights or something, I vaguely remember.
He's still alive and living in France.
In 1977, Polanski was arrested and charged with drugging and raping a 13-year-old girl. As a result of a plea bargain, he pleaded guilty to the lesser offence of unlawful sex with a minor. In 1978, after learning that the judge planned to reject his plea deal and impose a prison term instead of probation, he fled to Paris. A number of other women have later accused Polanski of raping them when they were teenagers.
An Interpol red notice was issued for his arrest, and he rarely leaves France
Never forget the Hollywood Elite giving him a standing ovation at the 2003 Academy Awards.
Harrison Ford personally delivered an Oscar to him.
My favorite Indiana Jones film is the one where Indy saves the millionaire child rapist by helping him skip out on his sentencing hearing and flee the United States to his mansion in France.
Indiana Jones would knee him in the nards
Well, considering Indy's track record with Marion, I'm not so sure...
Man it’s so sad that he’s the one that directed The Pianist. It is such a powerful film.
Rosemary's Baby is absolutely superb too.
The fact that the French government refuses to turn him over even when French citizens have held protests because they hate him shows how disgusting and corrupt they are.
Their Constitution does not permit extradition of their own citizens. The US could have requested that he be tried in France under French law but never did so.
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Not only that, but IIRC he’s remained pretty adamant that he didn’t do anything that wrong
He said something along the lines that every man wants to do what he did, so he would never be convicted