You learn something new every day; what did you learn today? Submit interesting and specific facts about something that you just found out here.
Til about “King” Jadwiga of Poland. She was named king of Poland because there were no ruling queens allowed but the rules didnt specify the king had to be a male.
She’s a pretty great neighbor with the exception of her constant denunciations about my lack of faith. It’s like, damn Vader, get off my case- I’m running science shit here damnit.
[removed]
They definitely try their best, but there’s a few things that almost universally end up in the players favor. Militarily the AI will avoid building up a large navy and airforce like the plague, which is obviously easy to take advantage of.
They also can make some pretty stupid trade agreements, but generally economically they’re actually decently savvy.
Part of the perception of them being “dumb” is that every Civ has agendas, certain Civs are more likely to favor certain agendas than others, like Jadwiga and her love of religion.
The problem arises when a Civ receives a conflicting “hidden agenda”. If your neighbor is a pacifist, but also secretly happens to like it when you capture enemy cities through war, you’re going to be receiving some conflicting messages.
Still super fun though! It can be so complex, I can hardly blame the AI for their shortcomings.
I remember the first game of Civ 6 I played when it was released. Teddy Roosevelt asked me to take part in a joint war with him. After I agreed, he denounced me for being a warmonger. Not very bully, Teddy.
I've never made use of fighter aircraft in Civ VI because the AI has never once fought me with a bomber.
I've defended against legions of Giant Death Robots and Modern Armor Armies but never seen so much as a biplane.
They also pretty universally can't handle artillery or things that shoot more than 3 tile range. Which means that if you have decent science and just rush artillery, you can do a lot of damage before the AI figures you out.
Yeah, recently had Alexander constantly bitching at me for not being super aggressive. But he seemed to love me anyway. Probably all my fancy art.
[removed]
Playing England in Civ 5 it was always a ton of fun to just roll up with an armada of ships of the line and start wrecking house.
Then whoever you're decimating starts trying to crank out a navy waaaay too late.
generally economically they're actually decently savvy.
That's a lot of adverbs.
Me: Builds a single world wonder.
China: Why? Why do you do this? Middle Kingdom is all you need!
Later...
Russia: Your lack of religion is uncultured you filth!
Me: starts spreading religion, including removing some of Peters religious influence
Russia: Stop spreading your religion buddy!
Id say the fact that the civ AI is terrible at both science and warfare makes them completely useless.
When playing at Diety you just have to make sure to survive their initial agression (which will definitely come since they have so many starting benefits).
If you can survive that then you just focus heavily on science and become unstoppable.
It's fun, but I hate that I can't get the sort of challenge I'd want. You can either play on something below Immortal and roflstomp the AI in every way, or play Immortal or Deity, in which case you can roflstomp, too, but you have to survive a few centuries onslaught of wars because difficulty in Civ is a function of a unit and development (economic, science, cultural, religious) handicap. It isn't that the AI gets closer to optimal play, they just get more stuff to throw at you.
I'd like to play games where it actually matters where you put your cities (I mean, really matters), and wider isn't always better; where the order of research is important, and perhaps you can't research all techs in all games always or doing so is a waste of resources; and so on. And you can do that to an extent, by for example severely limiting luxury resources, but that just means that the AI plays like always and loses because it can't adapt to the rules until most of its cities are in constant rebellion.
France declared war on me I've never seen their troops since they were so far away, and after 10 turns they asked for peace and gave me a disgusting amount of money and luxuries.
The AI is super dull
Let us always remember Nuclear Ghandi was due to underflow from 1 to 255.
They can't fight offensive wars and automatically treat defensive wars as if they are offensive and so you can bait the AI into a meat grinder.
They can't abuse adjacency bonuses and can't plan cities well. They massively overvalue diplomatic favour because they think it's a win con so you can just sell it and pick popular options in WC to get Diplo points + tonnes of gpt. You can also get perma world peace early in most games by maintaining mutual open borders + embassy + a small army.
Alexander: "Why don't you declare war to expand your territory?"
Also Alexander: "I denounce you for inflicting Grievances on others."
Combat Civ AI is deeply idiotic since V. They haven't been able to process the shift to one unit per tile. In any level below Deity, any player with even the most basic understanding of combined arms (infantry at the front/cavalry ready to flank and exploit gaps/archers and catapults protected in the back) will run circles around them because the AI can no longer build a balanced army or is able to coordinate it and exploit tactical possibilities.
The AI in IV did not have to deal with this and was able to build terrifyingly well balanced doomstacks that could fuck your shit up if you weren't careful. I still remember a TSL game with Spain in Civ 4 where I controlled all of Western and Central Europe and Stalin went all Fulda Gap on me sending several doomstacks across our border, crossing the Rhine in the first turn and reaching the Atlantic in the second. I was barely able to hold him back in the Pyrenees and push him back. The few times the AI in 6 has done something similar they have politely trickled a few units in the general direction of one of my border cities, then completely failed to recognize that the city could be put under siege, randomly moved some units around it and then got slaughtered by my armies half their size picking their units one by one with archers and then using cavalry to rush their long range units.
I actually don't mind their diplomatic AI in 6 since the rules are arbitrary but consistent in their arbitrariness: Each ruler will like you or dislike you based on these arbitrary factors Firaxis decided, but at least will do so consistently.
The AI sucks, but getting rid of the old style doomstacks was necessary. The AI hasn't adapted well but it makes for a much better game imo
Late to this conversation but the AI being ‘dumb’ is actually a design philosophy for Civ games (and probably extends to other strategy games) where I believe Sid Meier himself is quoted explaining that you want the AI to be smart but not too smart. There are two main reasons for this, the first is obviously from a resource management perspective in that the smarter the AI is the more memory and complexity the code would take up again impacting game performance (and let me tell you even on a good computer Civ still runs pretty slow). The second from a gameplay perspective is simply that if the AI gets too smart then it begins to exploit mechanics and strategies that are really difficult for a human to replicate and become impossible to beat which is actually bad because it’s just not fun or engaging (and despite what it may seem even at the hardest difficulties Civ games are still beatable). Getting the right balance for the ‘smartness’ of the AI is tough but if you really wanted the challenge you can always play against other people! I personally think Civ has done a great job with their AI.
and despite what it may seem even at the hardest difficulties Civ games are still beatable
Correct me if I am wrong but even in CIV, just like most games, harder difficulty does not mean that AI is better, but that AI has more bonuses than player, so it can do similar things to player while still being less efficient.
Civ running slowly is nothing to do with the AI though, it's just badly programmed - if I can run EU4 lategame at speed 4 easily, but Civ V has a heart attack on a standard sized map once each Civ has more than 10 units, there are bigger problems than just the complexity of the AI.
And don't even get me started on the netcode
Pretty much all strategy game AI are dumb.
Paradox ai is pretty good, safe some choices that are hard to explain
AlphaGo raises a virtual eyebrow.
There's always mods to fix the lack of AI skill, at least for Civ 5 there are some really good ones. I don't think the developers put a whole lot of effort into good AI programming to begin with.
I always think it's worth distinguishing between the leader personalities and the actual gameplay AI when discussing what's dumb. The personality quirks are a fair representation, imo. Most leaders have a particular agenda and focus. For example, US president GW Bush would covet oil and want revenge for past failed wars.
It is universally agreed that the Civ gameplay AI is bad. It is particularly noticeable on the strategic layer in the hex-tile games, and they've always only had difficulty settings via head starts and increased yields for the AI, to cover for its weakness.
For me it’s Harald Hadraada denouncing you for not having a strong navy. Immediately compliments you once you move your newly-built nuclear sub into firing range
No access to coast? All good mate. First city by the coast just settled? Omg get some boats or war.
Harald for me is that retarded kid who's a bit too aggressive. He tends to focus so much on navy and army early that every time he gets reduced to 1-2 cities of not eliminated because he falls of in science by the medieval era.
Never make the mistake of converting one of her cities religion...boy I had to restart the game she was that bad
I mean, she is a Catholic Saint after all...
That's pretty rich for someone who married a pagan...
You mean converted him and all his subjects
Ooh ooh I know about this! So there's actually quite a few Lithuanian pagans around today, and not even in the way that Slavic pagans exist where they're trying to reconstruct the pre-Christian belief system. Lithuanian just kinda never stopped being pagans, lol. It's pretty cool, they collaborate with Hindus a lot.
[removed]
Sad Habsburg Noises
Or denunciations for lack of gossip. I don't even know how that works
Send them a delegation. Even if they hate you they still accept because of the agenda.
I tried but she rejected my delegation even though she only disliked me
Yeah lol... I was watching someone play civ who mentioned this.
She is also the mother of Casimir 3rd (correct me if I'm wrong), the Poland leader of Civ 5
While Casimir's mother IS called Jadwiga she was only a consort, King Jadwiga is the daughter of Louis the Great of Hungary, making Casimir her great uncle, as Casimir was Louis' uncle.
Ah, my mistake thank you for sharing! :) Such a rich history!
Only reason I knew her... And a few other historical figures tbh.
Honestly I have probably learned more about world history since I started playing civ, than I ever did in school...
She launched three (3!) failed religious invasions on me as my neighbour. Total loser.
Poland very stronk. Can even into space.
She thicc
[removed]
And she declared a surprise war on me last night.
Where are your Winged Hussars now?!
Coming down the Mountainside I presume.
I used a single Winged Hussar unit to hold off three knights from France when they tried to attack one of my city states.
It wasn't quite the siege of Vienna, but the battle of Zanzibar does have a nice ring to it.
Queen Tamar of Georgia was also referred to as king ("mepe") Wikipedia
She’s also pretty
goodthicc in Civ
Dem hips
"There's no rule in the book that says a giraffe can't play football."
We got ourselves an airbud situation.
[removed]
Funny enough, there are plenty of rules made because there wasn't a specific rule not allowing it.
Hey, those guys are great! They actually made me care about hockey for 5 mins.
Paddle size in ping pong is not regulated and probably never will be.