Talk:Isabella of Aragon, Duchess of Milan

This article is of interest to the following WikiProjects:

	Biography portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography articles
B	This article has been rated as B-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale.
	This article is supported by WikiProject Royalty and Nobility.

Middle Ages: Crusades B‑class Low‑importance

	Middle Ages portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Middle Ages, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the Middle Ages on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Middle AgesWikipedia:WikiProject Middle AgesTemplate:WikiProject Middle AgesMiddle Ages articles
B	This article has been rated as B-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale.
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.
	This article is supported by the Crusades task force.

Women's History B‑class Mid‑importance

	History portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Women's History, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Women's history and related articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Women's HistoryWikipedia:WikiProject Women's HistoryTemplate:WikiProject Women's HistoryWomen's History articles
B	This article has been rated as B-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale.
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

First image[edit]

I've put this on the discussion page instead of removing the link completely. I don't see any evidence *at all* given *anywhere* that this is Isabella of Aragon/Naples, or at least not *this* Isabella . The "source" given on the Commons page is this article! Until there's some actual proof from a reliable third party that this is a picture of this Isabella, it should not be on the article.

Extensive searches online have not found evidence either. Does it exist outside of the assertion of someone who uploaded it to Commons? --NellieBly (talk) 21:02, 23 September 2008 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I found the source of the image, and I have restored it. I could not find any source for the second image - allegedly by Raphael - and since no reference was given , I removed it. I also refurbished that whole paragraph. HollyML14 (talk) 09:13, 26 January 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

May be the science the winner[edit]

Who is responsible for this page and who is responsible for this commentary "First image"? I never get used to the fact that the people on Wikipedia are afraid to put their real names on the website. My name is Maike Vogt-Lüerssen. I am a Historian and not an art historian. The art historians are responsible for the mess we have regarding the famous lady at the Louvre and Leonardo da Vinci (for the last hundreds years). It is a great pity that we have also so many people who are repeating their nonsense. Did the writers above ever had a closer look into the very important contemporary source of the 16th century, written by Agostino Vespucci? Did they ever read the source? Agostino Vespucci wrote in October 1503: Leonardo da Vinci was working on the head of Lisa del Giocondo (not Lisa Gherardini). Do you really think that this source once and for all confirms that the famous lady at the Louvre can only be the merchant's wife? There is only the mentioning of the head without the description of the facial features of this woman. There is only the mentioning of a head, not a figure, no description of her dress, the chair and the interesting background! Leonardo da Vinci made a lot of portraits of women. Don't forget, he was the court painter of the Visconti-Sforza for at least 16 years, and this dynasty had a lot of women. By the way no woman in the 16th century gave up her birth name, when she got married. Lisa Gherardini was born as Lisa Gherardini, she was still Lisa Gherardini when she married Francesco del Giocondo, and she was still Lisa Gherardini when she died. Not one woman had to give up her name. Not even the wives of the famous reformators! Therefore is the question who is Lisa del Giocondo. If you have like me a family tree the problem can be easily solved. The picture on this page is not showing Isabella of Aragon. The depicted is one of her granddaughters. Please, correct these mistakes. Maike Vogt-Lüerssen —Preceding unsigned comment added by Maike24 (talk • contribs) 22:31, 16 November 2008 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Proposal to move this page[edit]

The title of this page is Isabella of Naples. That is an incorrect name for the person it is about. Her official name is Isabella of Aragon. The Neapolitan rulers of her time were the Aragonese and none of them was referred to as "of Naples". The page should be renamed/moved to Isabella of Aragon. Since there is more than one Isabella of Aragon, it would be appropriate to call the new page "Isabella of Aragon (Duchess of Milan)". That page does already exist and contains only a redirect to this page. If there are no objections I am going to move this page after a week. HollyML14 (talk) 04:59, 1 February 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I have moved the page now. HollyML14 (talk) 00:54, 10 February 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Move request[edit]

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: page moved. Vegaswikian (talk) 22:48, 4 October 2011 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Isabella of Aragon, Duchess of Milan → Isabella of Naples

There was nothing incorrect about the former title. She was the daughter of a king of Naples, not of a king of Aragon. She doesn't have an "official name", being a princess who lived five centuries ago. The "Neapolotan rulers of her time" belonged to the House of Aragon, just like Catherine of Aragon, a daughter of a king of Aragon, belonged to the House of Trastamara. Yet we don't call her Catherine of Trastamara, do we? Margaret of Austria is not called Margaret of Habsburg here and Maria Carolina of Austria is not called Maria Carolina of Lorraine. Besides, the old (and newly proposed) title was much more concise. Surtsicna (talk) 21:07, 27 September 2011 (UTC)Reply[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Requested move (2013)[edit]

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the proposal was moved. --BDD (talk) 22:11, 30 September 2013 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Isabella of Naples → Isabella of Aragon, Duchess of Milan – She is more commonly referred to as Isabella of Aragon, especially in the context of being a candidate for the woman behind the Mona Lisa . We do have instances where we use house names over native country name for royal women like the Spanish Anne of Austria or the Austrian Elisabeth of Habsburg (1436–1505). Also is Isabella of Aragon, Queen of France really the primary topic for the name Isabella of Aragon? --The Emperor's New Spy (talk) 18:15, 20 September 2013 (UTC)Reply[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Move to Isabella of Aragon, Duchess of Bari[edit]

From the research I have done, her name does vary so it is understandable that this is the third requested move! However, I do believe that this title is more fitting because it was suo jure, representing a period of Isabella's life when she was able to exercise authority. As mentioned in the article, she was Duchess of Milan in name only, Beatrice d'Este held whatever political significance that came with the position David (talk) 22:50, 27 December 2017 (UTC)Reply[reply]

OPPOSE. What matters most, for an article title, is the name that she was best known as, not necessarily what was most accurate. I have never run into her as Duchess of Bari, though she was indeed duchess (though, as the article points out, a usurper) for quite a time; her real prominence was when she was in Milan. I don't think that a third move is desirable. --Vicedomino (talk) 00:22, 28 December 2017 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Okay, political significance does outweigh biographical accuracy - shame, though I do accept your point David (talk) 11:57, 28 December 2017 (UTC)Reply[reply]

David's suggestion is sensible but I have to agree with Vicedomino. She is much better known as Duchess of Milan than as Duchess of Bari. Surtsicna (talk) 15:21, 29 December 2017 (UTC)Reply[reply]