2022 Sentinel air shock vs coil? - Pinkbike Forum

2022 Sentinel air shock vs coil?

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2022 Sentinel air shock vs coil?
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flag JoeBristol
Posted: Jan 1, 2022 at 11:09 Quote
So I’m about 3 rides in on my 2022 Sentinel alloy. 1st 29er and I’m really impressed with the extra speed downhill. Broadly the air shock seems quite good most of the time - although I’d say it goes into the mid range a bit easier than ideal.

My last bike was 150mm front / 130mm rear travel - but it had a Fox DHX2 Factory coil on it. That sat up better in its travel I’d say - and had every adjustment going on it - hsc / hsr / lsc / lsr / climb switch.

I’ve just ordered the token tuning kit for the air shock I’ve got - it’s a Float X Performance Elite so has lsr / lsc adjustments, plus a climb switch and the ability to add tokens.

I’m wondering about a coil - but the bike already weighs 34lbs give or take and I don’t want to add too much more weight.

Has anyone used the same air shock as me and then gone onto coil instead on the v2 sentinel (alloy or carbon) - if so was it a good swap / does it avoid bottom out ok?

Wondering about the Cane Creek db coil il as that’s pretty light for a coil shock with the Valt spring. Not sure if I’d miss a piggyback or not - I don’t do anything longer downhill than the stuff at Bike Park Wales.
flag Kidklayko
O+
Posted: Jan 5, 2022 at 14:49 Quote
JoeBristol wrote:
So I’m about 3 rides in on my 2022 Sentinel alloy. 1st 29er and I’m really impressed with the extra speed downhill. Broadly the air shock seems quite good most of the time - although I’d say it goes into the mid range a bit easier than ideal.

My last bike was 150mm front / 130mm rear travel - but it had a Fox DHX2 Factory coil on it. That sat up better in its travel I’d say - and had every adjustment going on it - hsc / hsr / lsc / lsr / climb switch.

I’ve just ordered the token tuning kit for the air shock I’ve got - it’s a Float X Performance Elite so has lsr / lsc adjustments, plus a climb switch and the ability to add tokens.

I’m wondering about a coil - but the bike already weighs 34lbs give or take and I don’t want to add too much more weight.

Has anyone used the same air shock as me and then gone onto coil instead on the v2 sentinel (alloy or carbon) - if so was it a good swap / does it avoid bottom out ok?

Wondering about the Cane Creek db coil il as that’s pretty light for a coil shock with the Valt spring. Not sure if I’d miss a piggyback or not - I don’t do anything longer downhill than the stuff at Bike Park Wales.

If you want a little more coil feel with the bike without going to coil, I would look at the Cascade Components Linkages for the Sentinel. I have one on my bike, and the suppleness has improved, similar to a coil.
flag JoeBristol
Posted: Jan 5, 2022 at 22:35 Quote
Will do - I think the main thing is the mid range support I’m missing at the moment. The bike feels nice and plush with the air - just perhaps it feels like the mid range is a bit soft. I’ve found this with air on both my last 2 bikes too. It’s not awful - just a feeling I have sometimes. It’s particularly on big compressions and on some steepish climbs. The DHX2 factory on my last bike just felt like it had a nice bit of support to lean against.

I’m going to play around with pressures and tokens for the next few months and see where I get to.
flag ThermalAttorney
O+
Posted: Jan 25, 2022 at 8:10 Quote
As someone who went though this on a Scout, a Super Deluxe fitted with a MegNeg will give you a linear coil-like mid-stroke, with the added bonus of more pop. It's not going to match a coil (or even an X2) for small-bump compliance, but you still get a progressive end-stroke.

The thing is, that progressive end-stroke is not necessary on a bike like the Sentinel. If you're already looking at buying a new shock, it's hard to beat the overall performance of a coil. If weight is a concern, however, I thoroughly recommend picking up a used Super Deluxe and throwing a MegNeg on it.
flag JoeBristol
Posted: Jan 25, 2022 at 12:35 Quote
I’ve had a few more rides on it since I originally posted - I think it was just getting used to going from the extra support of the coil to an air shock. Actually it’s working pretty well - it’s plush over small stuff - it resists bottom out and I don’t think it’s giving up too much mid stroke too easily.

Still would prefer a coil I think - if they make a trunnion Cane Creek DB Coil iL in the right size that would be perfect as barely any heavier than the float x even with the weight of a vault spring.
flag ThermalAttorney
O+
Posted: Jan 26, 2022 at 9:52 Quote
That's good to hear that a bit of time and tinkering has made you appreciate what you've got. Since it's PB, you could always troll the BuySell for a good deal on a coil.

I was super excited to see Cane Creek announce trunnion versions of their DB Coil iL... only to find it's 185mm only. Mad
flag JoeBristol
Posted: Jan 27, 2022 at 7:02 Quote
Yeah that’s annoying it’s only 185mm eye to eye options. Guess I’ll just ride the float x for now rather than add a chunk more weight with a piggyback coil.
flag gbcarmona
Posted: Feb 13, 2022 at 1:11 Quote
I rode a coil for years on my previous bike so when I got the Sentinel (carbon) with the X2, I thought it was good but never as good as before. So I have just installed a Push…haven’t tested it yet but just around the block you can feel the differences on how much more plush and supportive it is, with much more difference between modes as well! But it was around 300gr of weight penalty and even worse on the wallet!
flag gbcarmona
Posted: Mar 8, 2022 at 5:32 Quote
Ive now had 2 good rides on the Sentinel on the Push (also new 38's)...the bike is much better...so much more traction, much more composed and settled and I can keep much tighter lines than before. Took it around my usual loop where its a good testing ground and I could straight away feel the differences. Its also more quiet. A little bit harder on the climbs (also had a new front Assegai and rear Big Betty). For me it was an improvement.
flag JoeBristol
Posted: Apr 11, 2022 at 2:20 Quote
Cool to hear the shock experiences. I’ve also been chatting with W guy who has the alloy sentinel and swapped out the Float X for an EXT coil and loves it.

I ended up leaving the tokens as they are and upped the pressure to 200 psi (I’m 75kgs) - this is the best compromise so far. It sits up much better when pedalling and doesn’t blow through the mid range so quickly / so easily. I think token wise it’s just about right - I’m not seeing any hard bottom outs but the rubber band is getting right near to the bottom of the stroke / has occasionally fallen off the bottom on big trails.

But it has lost some small bump plushness - on the steeper / loose / tech stuff it isn’t finding the grip it had before when I was running it softer.

I’ve got a Cane Creek Kitsuma coil arriving today with a 400lb Valt spring. I don’t think the lower hardware will arrive until later in the week though so a trial fit will have to wait. I’m hoping I’ve ordered the correct weight spring - online calculators suggested 380lbs and I think I’m heavier on my rear shock than the fork with my riding style.

I measured up the existing Float X and compared to the measurements of the Kitsuma and I think it should be fine for clearance to the downtube on full compression but I will check. I wonder if it’ll hit the water bottle though due to the big (ugly) dials - I might have to try and slide that further up in the frame with a di2 external battery mount.
flag jer2
O+ FL
Posted: Aug 27, 2022 at 21:02 Quote
I had an x2 on my v2 sentinel and like it much better with my new rockshox super deluxe coil.

The x2, even with no spacers, had lots of stiction over small bumps, used the mid travel easily and then hit a wall at the end of the travel. It felt good on single large hits but not so good at high speeds.

I’m running a very firm coil, firmer than recommended for my body weight, and about 24% sag. This provides good bottom out resistance and lots of mid travel support, at the expense of some small bump compliance high in the travel, which is mitigated since the coil is already better than the air with small bumps.

Overall the bike feels like it’s using all of the travel more efficiently.

I also tried it with the “recommended” coil spring rate for my weight and 30% sag. It felt amazing over small and medium bumps but bottomed out too easily over larger compressions.
flag JoeBristol
Posted: Aug 28, 2022 at 4:03 Quote
Cool - I switched the float X out for a cane creek Kitsuma coil but I’m struggling to stop it bottoming out.

I’m about 75kgs and currently running it with a 450-550 progressive Valt spring. 400lb and 450lb just blew through too much on drops.

I’m now at the point it feel superb on everything but bigger drops - I bought a reverse components travel gauge to workout what is happening - with the progressive spring I’m getting about 10mm of shock stroke unused - I think this stroke would only be used as you compress the bottom out bumper. I’m getting to this point too easily on trails with only 1-2 foot high drops - so when I’m doing park sort of days I’m switching the Float X back in.

So I’ve got a few thoughts that I’ve emailed cane creek with:

* is there a problem with the compression damping on my shock?

* is 24% progression not enough to run a coil - my other option here is getting a Cascade link to take this up to 30%?

* am I not running a heavy enough spring for my weight - seems a bit unlikely - I’m running about 22-24% sag?

* Would I be better off with a better air shock - in which case can a Kitsuma coil be converted to Kitsuma air or is it a case of selling what I’ve got and buying a new one?
flag ThermalAttorney
O+
Posted: Aug 30, 2022 at 9:11 Quote
When you say "stop it bottoming out" is there a particular harsh feeling or noise that you're getting on larger drops that you're trying to avoid? I ask, because on my Super Deluxe w/ a Sprindex I hit the bottom-out bumper routinely on any drop larger than 4ft, but it's never harsh feeling or makes undue noises. To be fair, my local trails don't have anything larger than 6ft, but I'm hitting each of those at least a half-dozen times.

If you're sending larger bike park drops it's possible that for your weight that the stock 24% progression isn't enough and you're right that adding more spring rate isn't the answer.

If you want to stay with a coil, the cascade link is a good option. They've got good resale value, so if you end up not liking the feel you wouldn't be out more than $75 for having tried.

A more extreme option would be to sell the Kitsuma and try a MY23 Super Deluxe with the adjustable hydraulic bottom-out control.
flag JoeBristol
Posted: Aug 30, 2022 at 11:35 Quote
ThermalAttorney wrote:
When you say "stop it bottoming out" is there a particular harsh feeling or noise that you're getting on larger drops that you're trying to avoid? I ask, because on my Super Deluxe w/ a Sprindex I hit the bottom-out bumper routinely on any drop larger than 4ft, but it's never harsh feeling or makes undue noises. To be fair, my local trails don't have anything larger than 6ft, but I'm hitting each of those at least a half-dozen times.

If you're sending larger bike park drops it's possible that for your weight that the stock 24% progression isn't enough and you're right that adding more spring rate isn't the answer.

If you want to stay with a coil, the cascade link is a good option. They've got good resale value, so if you end up not liking the feel you wouldn't be out more than $75 for having tried.

A more extreme option would be to sell the Kitsuma and try a MY23 Super Deluxe with the adjustable hydraulic bottom-out control.

It’s harsh enough off a 3 foot drop to blow a foot off a flat pedal - that was on the 450lb Valt standard spring. Haven’t tried the same drop yet on the progressive spring but I reckon it might get close to doing the same thing.

I reckon the biggest drops I’m doing are probably 4 feet five or take - I’m not doing enormous things - I don’t have the bottle for it

I’m thinking the cascade link might be the way to go - I really like the coil feel on steep tech and roots etc. I’ve got a few bits and bobs to sell which should pretty much find the link.
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