Talk:Chamorro language

Phonemes

does anyone know the phonemes of the language so we can construct a chart with the IPA symbols?? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.104.195.115 (talk) 16:43, 11 March 2011 (UTC)

Early discussion

-I changed a couple things around in the "Common Phrases" section. I'm going to get rid of the "oga'an maolek" nonsense and the like... It's a literal translation, but doesn't actually make sense in Chamorro. We use the Spanish phrases, if we must, but not "oga'an maolek." --Gadao01 (talk) 04:50, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

- Never heard: oga'an maolek, pupuenge maolek...? Who has invented these new expressions? Why is somebody trying to change the language, artificially? All Chamorros, old and young Chamorros, say, always buenas días, buenas tatdes, buenas noches. Please, don't kill Chamorro language!!!!!

—"Oga'an Maolek"? Personally, I've never heard anyone say this phrase, or the like. True, it is a litteral translation of "Good Morning," but I do not believe anyone actually says it. That being said, I don't know if there is an actual Chamorro equivalent to "Good Morning" or like phrases. Gadao01 21:32, 31 March 2007 (UTC)Gadao01

Just added a few notes - basic phrases. Also noticed that a link to Spanish creole was on the page. Have kept the link, but noted definitely in the text that Chamorro is not a Spanish creole.

firstfox 15:06, 28 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Agree with firstfox. When it comes to the creole, it should be further investigated if chamorro had suffered a de-creolization process such us the filipino chavacanos creole. There are many changes that it was creole on 1898. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.49.189.1 (talk) 10:32, 5 June 2013 (UTC)

Â, Ñ, Ü

' (glottal stop), A, Å, B, Ch, D, E, F, G, H, I, K, L, M, N, Ñ, Ng, O, P, R, S, T, U, Y

According to [1] Â, Ñ, Ü are the special letters of Chamorro. Is the Wikipedia article correct and should therefore a suggestion for correction be sent to kiisu@eki.ee? Christoph Päper 22:06, 13 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Yes, I would say a suggestion for correction be sent to that site, because it is the only place I've EVER seen  and Ü cited or used as supposedly Chamoru letters.Adrigon 06:19, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

No, no correction needs to be made for the letters. Â and Ü were used at one point by some people. However, with the modern Chamorro orthography, there does not need to be a correction, the letters listed above are the ones required for Chamorro. --Gadao01 (talk) 02:16, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

Entymology of the word "Chamorro" and a pronunciation guide (tsa-mōr-roo???) for the word should be included.Onionhound 00:08, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

The "Chamoru Vs. Chamorro" section of the "Chamorro people" page addresses the etymology, although I'm not sure whether it would be appropriate for me to simply copy and paste it in this article...Adrigon 06:19, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

Alphabets are all well and good on language pages, but not much use to a non-speaker unless IPA equivalents are given. In particular, what sound is å intended to represent?N. Pharris 23:15, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

Putang-ina-mu? What is your name? is that seriously the true meaning? or is someone screwin around with the page.

If you use that phrase when speaking to a Filipino, you'd be insulting his mother and him. It's literal meaning is "your mother's vagina". It's the Tagalog equivalent of the English curse word "mother fucker".Jlujan69 05:00, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

Just to further clarify, the aforementioned phrase IS NOT Chamoru.Adrigon 06:19, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

The article should include the Chamorro alphabet, listing all of its letters. Equinox ◑ 21:23, 30 June 2023 (UTC)

Minor editing

I removed Japanese, Spanish, and Tagalog as languages whose usage threatens to replace Chamorro. English is the only language that "threatens" the continued usage of Chamorro. The only people that are inclined to speak Tagalog and Japanese are the Filipinos and Japanese respectively, not the Chamorro people. Spanish certainly hasn't been a threat to the Chamorro language in over a hundred years. However, Chamorros are increasingly more inclined to speak English than Chamorro. Other languages are not a factor for the Chamorro people in this context.Jlujan69 21:54, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Chamorro Scouting

Can someone render "Be Prepared", the Scout Motto, into Chamorro? Thanks! Chris 15:02, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

-"Be prepared" can be said something like "Arekla hao" or "Na'listu hao." Meaning "Fix yourself" or "Make yourself ready" respectively. Of course you can also say "Prepara hao" :-) --Gadao01 (talk) 04:51, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Spanish Creole¡

Please, be serious..all numbers in Chamorro language are "phonetical" Spanish¡¡ One thing is a loan from another language, and other a lot words coming from Spanish..even the pronunciation seems as Latin American Spanish... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.158.53.15 (talk) 00:43, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

Buen Probecho?

Are you sure that's the way to say you're welcome? In Spanish (Puerto Rican) the phrase "Buen Provecho" translates roughly to "Bon Apetit" in the context of a meal, but more generally, "que aprobeches" can mean "take advantage of the opportunity offered you." In that sense, a "buen probecho" sounds amusingly cocky, sort of on line with "enjoy". Can someone verify that your welcome is not "de nada"? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jamiltonio (talk • contribs) 21:15, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

"Buen probecho" is indeed used as "You're welcome" in Chamorro. I believe the term was taken from the older meaning of "Enjoy of what is proffered you," but not necessarily as a "cocky" sort of reply. I'm not entirely sure, but then again, I wasn't around 200 years ago to hear it used in daily conversation. The level of formality (nowadays) for "buen probecho" is on par with "no hay de que" in Spanish, and "de nada" would be closer to us saying "maolek ha'" or "ha'a"(not something you say to your grandmother, show respect!). The phrase "de nada" is not used by Chamorro speakers, unless they're being "cute" and saying it in Spanish. --Gadao01 (talk) 07:25, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

If you researched the original use of the Spanish phrase "buen provecho" you will find that it wasn't originally used to mean the equivalent of "bon apetit", but instead it was said upon excusing one's self from the dining table. As the person excused his or herself, "buen provecho" would be offered to everyone still eating. "Buen provecho" or "good benefit", in essence telling everyone "may it (the meal) do you good". Of course, after centuries of usage, the phrase has now become in many Spanish-speaking countries an idiomatic expression equivalent to "bon apetit". In Chamorro the phrase still retains its original meaning. Although we translate the phrase as "you're welcome", what it really is saying is "may it have done you good", in reference to whatever gift or service was offered to someone.--Magalahi (talk) 02:56, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

Chamorro Basic Phrases

Ok, I have a couple of things to talk about:

1. Has anyone actually ever heard someone say "åte adeng-mu" for "Greetings" or "fanatåtte" even??? Cause I know that I've never heard those before. If no one has, I'm going to get rid of those phrases... They sound rather contrived to me, rather than actual phrases.
2. If you don't know the language, please don't make changes to the page like, "These Spanish phrases are innacurate. Chamorros don't actually have any phrases for goodbye or whatever. They use substitutes." Nonsense! As a Chamorro speaker, I'll vouch that we use "buenas dihas" "adios" etc. While the Chamorro from the pre-Spanish era might have had indigenous terms for such phrases, in modern Chamorro we use the Spanish loanwords/ phrases.

--Gadao01 (talk) 08:16, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

1. Up until about a month ago, I had never heard the word "fanatatte" used in the manner described, but then I was speaking Chamorro with a guy from Luta and when we parted ways, he said something to the effect of "pues, hagu pon tatte" (I may be wrong as to his exact words). Although I understood what he meant literally, I didn't know what it meant contextually. He went on to explain that "fanatatte" generally is used when a person is leaving and they are saying goodbye to someone or a group of people who will remain behind in the place the speaker is leaving. He was surprised that I had never heard "fanatatte" used in that manner before. We have to remain cognizant of the fact that although Chamorro is one language, Chamorro has evolved, changed and adapted differently, over time, in the different geographic regions it is spoken--this is true even on the same island (from north to central to south on Guahan). thanks. Cbobak (talk) 00:37, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

Just a question

I am not any linguist but I believe "memorias" is either Spanish or Portuguese introduction —Preceding unsigned comment added by 189.58.125.176 (talk) 01:35, 10 January 2010 (UTC)

Vague text discussing voicing

The following text in the section "Alphabet" has been marked "vague":

"B, D, and G are not distinguished from P, T, and K in that position."

Clearly, we are talking here about the voiced consonants B, D and G versus their unvoiced equivalents at the same POA (point of articulation) and with the same MOA (manner of articulation), namely P, T, and K.

The given text occurs at the end of a complex paragraph that begins by discussing geminate (doubled) consonants. Note that in the article on Gemination, we find this comment:

"Among stops and fricatives, in most languages only voiceless consonants occur geminated."

This suggests to me that in an earlier version, the paragraph may have only discussed geminate consonants. If this were so, we could understand "in that position" to mean "when geminated". In practice, this would mean that whether one writes BB or PP, one would pronounce it as PP, and similarly for the pairs DD/TT and GG/KK. Could a fluent Chamorro-speaker confirm that this is indeed so? If it is so, please also amend the vague text to say "when geminated" rather than "in that position".

yoyo (talk) 16:54, 19 February 2010 (UTC)

I'm not entirely certain on the meaning of "B, D, and G are not distinguished from P, T, and K in that position." However, it is not true that BB would always be pronounced as PP, take the word yabbao (to whack at, to hack at), it is definitely not pronounced with PP. For counterexamples for the DD/TT and GG/KK cases, consider the words chaddek (fast) and daggao (to throw).

At the end of a syllable, however, B/P, D/T, and G/K are almost indistinguishable. Could that possibly be the meaning of the statement "B, D, and G are not distinguished from P, T, and K in that position."? Gadao01 (talk) 06:01, 3 June 2010 (UTC)

Adding Sources to "Speakers" and "Language Revitalization"

Just so people know what I'm doing (and can hopefully contribute), I've begun by reordering existing text and adding additional citations/resources. I haven't deleted anything (yet) unless I'm replacing it with similar language covering the same point. There's good stuff already here... but given the extensive history we're trying to cover, there's also definitely more work to do on these sections. If anyone's interested, Guampedia is a great source for information (particularly Kumision I Fino’ Chamorro and US Naval Era Education). Does anybody have sources for the historical Chamorro language experience on other islands (particularly as related to fluency decline, or US and Japanese governmental policies)? Kokobird (talk) 09:45, 12 March 2013 (UTC)

Guam-centric references

It seems like a lot of the history and background assumes that the focus is on Guam only. Admittedly, as a person living on Guam, I often make this mistake. What does everyone think about working at making this a little less Guam-centric? I'll do my best to get this done, but it may end up reading oddly... so feel free to call me out if the wording comes across as too stilted. Kokobird (talk) 09:45, 12 March 2013 (UTC)

Materials on Chamorro language

Dictionary and grammar of the Chamorro language of the island of Guam (1918)

https://archive.org/details/cu31924026914501

https://archive.org/details/aff7166.0001.001.umich.edu

https://archive.org/details/dictionarygramma00preirich

https://archive.org/details/dictionaryandgr00deptgoog

https://archive.org/details/dictionaryandgr01deptgoog

https://archive.org/details/dictionaryandgr03deptgoog

Chamorro Testament

https://archive.org/details/ChamorroTestament

New Testament in Chamorro (Chamoro) Guam - Polynesian - Chamorro Islands

https://archive.org/details/NewTestamentInChamorrochamoroGuam-Polynesian-ChamorroIslands

Gospel Book of John in Chamorro (Chamoro) Language of the Island of Guam - 1908

https://archive.org/details/GospelBookOfJohnInChamorrochamoroLanguageOfTheIslandOfGuam-1908

This is actually in Spanish and has been mislabelled as Chamorro

https://archive.org/details/ajf9929.0001.001.umich.edu

Rajmaan (talk) 15:10, 9 March 2014 (UTC)

Capitalization of digraphs

The article indicates uppercase versions of several digraphs in which both letters are capitalized. For example, <CH> as uppercase version of <ch>, rather than <Ch> as one would find in English and most other languages. I have seen people write <CHamoru> using this convention. However, I have not managed to find a reference to this convention. It is not mentioned in the official spelling rules adopted by the Guam government. Does anyone know a source for this? Gholton (talk) 06:07, 20 February 2015 (UTC)

Hi, Gholton. Maybe a bit late, but there are some references that indicate the full capitalization of the digraphs ch and ng in the official orthography of Guam (CH, NG), not for the orthography of the CNMI (Ch, Ng) though. First, the official orthography rules of the Commission on CHamoru language: Guam CHamoru Orthography, PDF. Second, there is a very useful free grammar by Sandra Chung that also covers the topic of the different Chamorro orthographies, especially pages 671pp. Sandra Chung: Chamorro Grammar, 2020. I hope this helps. With best regards, --Hanzlan (talk) 09:25, 25 April 2021 (UTC)

How to read phrases?

The phrases formatted like this are confusing:

   Buenas dihas [Spanish introduced] påt Manana si Yu'os

Are there two equivalent phrases here,

  “Buenas dihas” [formal? from Spanish, obviously]

and

  “påt Manana si Yu'os” [informal? From Austronesian]

Or is it a signle phrase:

   Buenas dihas påt Manana si Yu'os

babbage (talk) 19:28, 1 June 2016 (UTC)

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alphabet table error?

In the alphabet table, the final column says that the letter Y/y is used for the phonemes /dz/, /z/ and /dʒ/. I assume those phonemes are actually written as Z/z instead? Libcub (talk) 09:27, 18 August 2021 (UTC)

@Libcub: The data in the table is correct. The paragraph below the table gives some further explanations about the use of the grapheme <y>. The standard pronunciation is [dz]. –Austronesier (talk) 10:59, 18 August 2021 (UTC)