Talk:Bethlehem, Pennsylvania

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Moravian Star[edit]

There should be a image of a moravian star on this page since it is nearly a icon of the community, not to mention a article on the star its self. The large Star of Bethlehem in Bethlehem, PA is mentioned in the article on that city with little mention of moravians and their star. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.20.127.229 (talk • contribs) 17:18, 28 November 2005

Scope of "Notable people"[edit]

Stephen Vincent Benet was not born in Bethlehem, nor did he ever live in Bethlehem (as far as I know). You can make an argument that his name shouldn't even appear on the Bethlehem page; however, I'd argue that including his name helps to clarify the common misconception that he's from Bethlehem and helps point people in the right direction. Search the web and you'll see that his birthplace is commonly listed as Bethlehem. As I recollect, his parents were staying at the Eagle Hotel (site of the current Hotel Bethlehem) just prior to his birth, but headed to Fountain Hill for the actually delivery. If I'm wrong about any of this, please, by all means correct. Nyutko 01:32, 16 October 2006 (UTC)Reply[reply]

If he has no affiliation with Bethlehem, then he should come off the page; he is on the Fountain Hill and Lehigh Valley ones, which are appropriate. PAWiki 02:40, 16 October 2006 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Someone in the last 8½ years must have contravened that decision (that Fountain Hill wasn't close enough), because now it contains a Main link to "List of people from the Lehigh Valley", and includes Amanda Seyfried, who was born in Allentown. We need to decide whether we're going to be precise or loose with the definition. I think this is inappropriate; Lehigh Valley is not Bethlehem.

As for Benet, I would have said Fountain Hill was "close enough", because as a child I frequently visited my grandmother, whom I've always assumed lived in Bethlehem, because that's how my mother and I always addressed our letters (which were always properly delivered). There was a factory outlet store "in Fountain Hill" that we sometimes went to (about 2 or 3 blocks from her house), but now when I Google her street, it lists the address as Fountain Hill. JustinTime55 (talk) 13:20, 23 March 2015 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Funny--Benet's article page has always said he was from Bethlehem. As I say, Fountain Hill is close enough that that's splitting hairs. And personal recollection isn't good enough to revert. But there were a few people here which I just removed, who were a lot farther off (Allentown, Easton, and Kutztown!) JustinTime55 (talk) 21:14, 23 March 2015 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Another example: Dwayne Johnson was not born in Bethlehem. He did live there during senior year of high school. Does that count? 45.62.176.85 (talk) 20:43, 2 March 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Unless notable for some reason, one year's residence doesn't count. Spelled out, "DJ lived in Bethlehem during his senior year of high school" comes off as trivial, that is, not notable. That's IMHO, but to that I'll add this opinion: cheap entries cheapen other entries on a list. Allreet (talk) 05:41, 4 March 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
The distinction should be if he *graduated* from HS in Bethlehem, that would be notable. Just living there for a short period, not so much?? 2603:8001:2A00:7428:D5CA:6522:502D:B5B (talk) 20:42, 9 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Please see WP:USCITIES#Notable people for details. Magnolia677 (talk) 21:00, 9 September 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Oktoberfest, The Chicken Dance, Pennsylvania Dutch Dialect[edit]

I moved to Bethlehem as a child and Oktoberfest, The Chicken Dance, Pennsylvania Dutch Dialect, the Christmas Putz were all very distinctly Bethlehem events that caught our attention. I think they warrant mention. —Preceding unsigned comment added by SleepyElephant (talk • contribs) 21:00, 8 November 2006

Media[edit]

I noticed the article says the Globe-Times stopped publishing in 1991. But, didn't it actually merge with the Easton Express to form the Express-Times? Or, did they just tack on part of the name after the Globe died? --Free-world 00:28, 29 January 2007 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Most likely, given the massive illegal immigration, there's a Spanish-language newspaper. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.97.69.229 (talk) 16:09, 12 May 2013 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Yes, there are Spanish-language newspapers in the Lehigh Valley but not because of illegal immigration but primarily because of the influx of Latinos from New Jersey and New York over the past few decades. Allreet (talk) 05:49, 4 March 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Musikfest[edit]

The article fails to mention Musikfest at all. Considering it draws over one million people to Bethlehem per year, shouldn't it be mentioned? --Cory Kohn 00:16, 19 February 2007 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Michael Behe[edit]

I am deleting Behe from the notable people from Bethlehem section. He was Not born in Bethlehem. He moved here in 1985. --Cory Kohn 00:22, 19 February 2007 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I put him back in. I think that anyone who has lived in a town for 22 years counts as a resident and can say he's 'from' Bethlehem. Vickihaller (talk) 03:19, 16 December 2007 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Correct Municipalities[edit]

It is my understanding that Freedom High School and Northampton Community College are both in Bethlehem Township, not Bethlehem City. They are two completely separate municipalities. Does anyone agree these citations should be deleted from Bethlehem City? Jschnalzer 23:07, 23 May 2007 (UTC)Reply[reply]

NCC is definitely in Bethlehem Township (see http://www.northampton.edu/Welcome/locations.htm), and I believe you're correct about Freedom as well (and I think also the Green Pond campus of Moravian Academy). I think both schools are worth mentioning in the context of Bethlehem, however; just add verbiage indicating their location. Perhaps you could beef up the boilerplate Bethlehem Township article, also. --Free-world 03:29, 24 May 2007 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I like the idea of leaving references in Bethlehem City. I updated the information for both Freedom and NCC. I don't know enough about Bethlehem Township to add anything significant. Not to mention I'm not quite familiar enough with editing in Wikipedia to take on such a task at this point. Jschnalzer 17:19, 27 May 2007 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Where did the county info come from? According to the USGS, Bethlehem, as a populated place in PA, is listed under Northampton and Clearfield counties. Obviously, Clearfield is a wholly different Bethlehem. But, the USGS does NOT recognize Bethlehem as being in Lehigh county. Only the regional Allentown-Bethlehem-Easton Airport is located in Lehigh county. Please use the Search Page, http://geonames.usgs.gov/pls/gnispublic/f?p=116:1:375890476266708, to cross-check my info. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 137.237.29.117 (talk) 18:15, 4 March 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Pronunciation[edit]

Does the city have an official pronunciation? I've heard plenty of people outside of the area call it Beth-La-Hem, but I've heard it called Beth-Lum by people in the Lehigh Valley and NEPA. Can anyone clarify? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.115.132.109 (talk) 02:37, 23 July 2008 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I've heard this too, that it's more like two syllables. Does anyone know? --Golbez (talk) 03:33, 14 December 2008 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Three syllables, as with the place of Christ's birth. The two-syllable variation is a local mispronunciation rooted in poor diction. Do I have source on that? No. Allreet (talk) 05:38, 11 September 2019 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@24.115.132.109 I heard people say Beth-lum but beth-le-hem and Beth-la-hem are much more popular. all are correct so no worries. source? I live here. 64.121.147.197 (talk) 03:14, 14 April 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Just Born and Peeps[edit]

I'm wondering why the Just Born factory, the only one in the world, is not mentioned in the article. Peeps are known nation-wide and perhaps even world-wide. Former President Ronald Reagan was an avid lover of Just Born jelly beans. Other than Bethlehem Steel, Just Born is the most well known part of Bethlehem, PA.PokeHomsar (talk) 15:24, 30 May 2008 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Michael Guman Michael Guman, born in Bethlehem, is a former professional football player with the Los Angeles Rams (1980-1988) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.172.39.229 (talk) 16:58, 9 August 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Relevance and structure -- History -- Moravians[edit]

I believe the paragraph that begins "Associated Moravians founded missions with Algonguian Mahican in the New York colony as well, ..." needs to be moved outside. It's fascinating; but what does it have to do with Bethlehem's history? It belongs in the Moravian article.

But when I go there, I find something odd: it doesn't seem to mention that Moravians settled in North America, founded Bethlehem (!), or ministered to indiginous peoples in NA. I think both articles would be improved by first expanding the Moravian article (including a link to Bethlehem,) then moving this paragraph there. JustinTime55 (talk) 14:23, 4 March 2010 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Good suggestions - often more than one article has to be edited to be sure they have complete information.--Parkwells (talk) 19:03, 4 March 2010 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Crime rate[edit]

I believe that the article should state that the crime rate in Bethlehem is less than half of Allentown's crime rate. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Brideye (talk • contribs) 14:09, 23 February 2011 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Unless someone can direct to evidence for the Pembroke Village claim, I will delete. A quick glimpse at crimemapping suggests Pembroke has had fewer crimes over the past twelve years than, for example, South Bethlehem.--Beahiver (talk) 11:19, 16 October 2012 (UTC)Reply[reply]

The Christmas star[edit]

I remember quite clearly that the pre-1967 star had a cross superimposed on it, which was lit at night around Easter time (instead of the star, which was only lit at Christmas), though that isn't mentioned here. Was the cross continued on the third-generation star, and is it still lit at Easter since the year-round lighting?

This section is nice, but to be strictly "kosher" (sorry for the mixed metaphor) it needs source citation(s). Also, are the 81 feet wide by 53 feet high dimensions correct, or is it the other way around? I believe it was always taller than it is wide. JustinTime55 (talk) 18:33, 23 March 2011 (UTC)Reply[reply]

External links modified[edit]

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Article paints too rosy a picture[edit]

This page SERIOUSLY whitewashes the history of Bethlehem. It reads like a Chamber of Commerce tourism brochure. What about the violent steel workers' strikes during the first half of the 20th century? What about the high rates of unemployment during parts of the 20th century? What about Bethlehem Steel closing its Bethlehem plant in 1995 and going bankrupt in 2001...and thereby decimating the town's economy? Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, a source of unbiased information, not the tourism bureau website. Niccast (talk) 21:53, 6 July 2017 (UTC)NiccastReply[reply]

Niccast, what you sat may very well be true. But this page is for specific discussion of proposed changes to the article. If there are things missing, by all means feel free to add neutrally worded content paraphrased from reliable sources, which you will need to cite. This page is not for general complaints about the article, nor is it for general discussion of the subject of the article. John from Idegon (talk) 22:38, 6 July 2017 (UTC)Reply[reply]
John from Idegon, Okay, well, Wikipedia's guidelines for talk pages include: "The purpose of an article's talk page...is to provide space for editors to discuss changes to its associated article." "There is a reasonable allowance for speculation, suggestion, and personal knowledge on talk pages, with a view to prompting further investigation" and "Make proposals: New proposals for the article can be put forward for discussion by other editors". It doesn't seem to me that I have violated these guidelines. And to your assertion that my complaints were 'general' - I was specifically suggesting adding information about steel workers' strikes, unemployment rates, and the effect of the closure of the Bethlehem plant. And, on this talk page, under "Moravian Star" it says 'there should be a image of a moravian star on this page'. Under "Oktoberfest, The Chicken Dance, Pennsylvania Dutch Dialect" it says 'I moved to Bethlehem as a child and Oktoberfest, The Chicken Dance, Pennsylvania Dutch Dialect, the Christmas Putz were all very distinctly Bethlehem events that caught our attention. I think they warrant mention.' Under "Musikfest" it says 'The article fails to mention Musikfest at all. Considering it draws over one million people to Bethlehem per year, shouldn't it be mentioned?' ...My point being that others have posted comments on this talk page without any citations (unless you count the hyperlink in Musikfest). I guess if you want a specific proposed change that is neutrally-worded, then here it is: I recommend adding under either the 'history' or the 'economy' section that at its peak during WWII, the Bethlehem-based plant (of the Bethlehem Steel Corporation) employed almost 33,000 people. The Corporation closed the Bethlehem Plant in 1995 and filed for bankrupcy in 2001. [I got this info from www.bethlehempa.org/visit_about.html#industrial]. A strike by Bethlehem Steel workers took place in Bethlehem over a period of 5 days from March 24th-28th, 1941. While it started peacefully, it quickly escalated with the strikers throwing bricks and bottles at police, and overturning vehicles. The police responded with teargas. On the first day of the protest, March 24th, the strikers and their allies, who numbered at least 2500 (I think the final count of protesters is actually significantly higher than that, but that's the only # provided on the website I was reading), initially faced off against local police only. But at midnight the city mayor and county sheriff called in 30-40 state police to assist. And the following day the Pennsylvania governor ordered an additional 125 state police to Bethlehem. [I got this info from articles.mcall.com/1991-09-02/features/2810498_1_bethlehem-steel-labor-disputes-older-workers] Niccast (talk) 6 July 2017 (UTC)
Without a doubt the full history of The Steel (that's how locals speak of it) should be included, the good and bad. I have a comprehensive history put together by the Morning Call which addresses the labor struggles and other warts Niccast is referring to. And the additional cites he provides should help. More serious scholars would dig even deeper. One prominent source that I don't have is the history of BSC by John Strohmeyer, the Pulitzer-prize winning editor of the former Globe-Times. I also must say that there is often a tendency on the part of editors who are close to a subject to lean toward the positive. Everyone wants to root for the home team. But in fairness to Wikipedia editors in general, we also dig putting together a good story no matter where the chips fall. Allreet (talk) 01:59, 1 December 2017 (UTC)Reply[reply]
And again I will say that discussion such as this is a waste of time. See, and follow WP:BRD. If you think something is deficient in the article, add content sourced to WP:RS. If anyone has a problem with it, they will revert and then we actually have something specific to discuss. Niccast, Allreet, please know I have no opinion on the current content of the article nor am I opining on the vague suggestions that have been made here. It's just so much simpler to argue for or against concrete changes rather than theories. I'll not make any changes to the article, but will just help to guide a discussion to consensus if the promo position you both are asserting exists actually materializes. I'm familiar with the background, as I grew up in a steel town (Gary) and am quite experienced in editing settlement articles. Good luck. I look forward to your revisions. John from Idegon (talk) 03:03, 1 December 2017 (UTC)Reply[reply]

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Bethlehem Plaza Mall - what does this refer to?[edit]

In the Shopping section, the Bethlehem Plaza Mall is identified as being adjacent to W. Broad Street. An internet search for this term turns up nothing other than references to a suburban shopping center:

https://mapcarta.com/22706152

Is this actually a reference to the Marketplace, the former enclosed mall (which closed before Wikipedia existed)? Or does this refer to the pedestrian block, which I believe was called Bethlehem Plaza:

http://digital.lib.lehigh.edu/cdm4/beyond_viewer.php?CISOPTR=21471&ptr=21511&searchworks=search_0__621&DMTHUMB=1

In any case, very words in the Shopping section's opening paragraph hold up, and the absence of citations would help explain this. Furthermore, Main Street, a retail jewel if ever there was one, is only mentioned in passing with no details on its shops or significance as one of the city's key features and most famous attractions. Allreet (talk) 23:33, 30 November 2017 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Searching further, I found that Bethlehem Plaza is the tower building at Broad & New, an office building and not an enclosed mall. I'd fix the description but since this is the Shopping section, the material should be removed, which I'll do. I'll also take a stab at re-doing this section. Both Main Street and the South Side deserve better. Allreet (talk) 23:33, 30 November 2017 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Bethlehem[edit]

Zulilly is mentioned as a logistics location is in Bethlehem but is closing and should be taken out — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:387:0:80D:0:0:0:BF (talk) 20:21, 1 April 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

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