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The most phenotypically diverse country in Africa

Discussion in 'Africa Forum' started by Lifeisreal, Apr 18, 2020 at 6:26 PM.

  1. ababda

    ababda Well-Known Member

    May 21, 2013
    Ratings:
    +1,783 / 134 / -107
    What culture does modern Nubians and Dinka share please inform us as Sudanese?

    Nubian culture




    Dinka Culture.



    South Egypt



    Uganda
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2020 at 6:06 AM
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  2. ababda

    ababda Well-Known Member

    May 21, 2013
    Ratings:
    +1,783 / 134 / -107
    Traditional Dinka Religion

    The Dinka, or Jieng/Muonyjang, are a Nilotic ethnic group in South Sudan.

    In Dinka mythology the supreme, creator god is Nhialic (also known as Jaak, Juong and Dyokin by other Nilotic groups such as the Nuer and Shilluk). He is believed to be present in all of creation, and to control the destiny of every human, plant and animal on Earth. Nhialic is the god of the sky and rain, and the ruler of all the spirits.

    Dengdit or Deng, is the sky god of rain and fertility, empowered by Nhialic. Deng's mother is Abuk, the patron goddess of gardening and all women, represented by a snake. Garang is believed or assumed by some Dinka to be a god suppressed by Deng whose spirits can cause most Dinka women, and some men, to scream.

    The term "Jok" refers to a group of ancestral spirits.

    Dinka people respect African puff adders because of divinities believed to be found in the snakes. The most commonly respected snakes are Atemyath, Biar keroor, and Maluang. These snakes are given local made molten cheese to appease them, after which they are released into the forest. Killing these snakes is believed to be a bad omen for the community or the individual, with the assumption that the spirits may strike the killer.

    Dinka mythology
    Dinka religion - Wikipedia
     
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  3. ababda

    ababda Well-Known Member

    May 21, 2013
    Ratings:
    +1,783 / 134 / -107
    Before the area known as Sudan became majority Muslims, then Christian, however the ancient religion was this.


    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    The Dinka did not worship Gods or Goddesses such as Isis, Amun Ra, Horus, or apedemak .Since religion is part of culture, why there religious believes are different.

    [​IMG]

    If they had Dinka shared our past belief system, then you statement would be valid.

    Nile Valley creation myths.

    According to the beliefs of the Kushites, before creation, the world was all covered with water.1 Then a mound of earth rose out of the water. On top of this mound, Atum the first god on earth, was born

    Atum then gave birth to Shu, the first man on earth, and Tefnut, the first woman goddess. Shu and Tefnu married and gave birth to Geb (the god of Earth) and Nut (god of the Skies). Geb and Nut then were responsible for giving birth to the most important gods in Kush; Osiris (god of the pharaohs), Seth (god of devastation), Isis (god of motherhood), and Nephthys (protector of the dead). Atum signified the concept of creation.

    Atum was also believed to have created the heavens and earth. He was portrayed as an old man and sometimes with a ram head in connection to Amon. Re was the most publicly worshiped form of Atum, though the cult emerged as a universal god. The symbol of Re is a sun disk, which is found drawn on chapels of pyramids as well as on temples.

    [​IMG]

    Ancient Sudan~ Nubia: Religion: Anubis
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2020 at 5:15 AM
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  4. Visio Dei

    Visio Dei ابن وادي النيل

    Jun 5, 2019
    Ratings:
    +518 / 73 / -76
    I’m seeing NONE. Because they do not have the accurate dna dataset for North Sudanese people. South Sudanese and north has distinct histories and it reflects on our genetics. Some Sudanese in north may have their dna but it’s common sense that it’s their because of proximity.
    LOL! How do they cluster culturally and genetically if Darfurians migrated to Sudan area hundreds of years ago. They do not speak the same language or practice the same customs. What are you talking about? They even pushed for independence in 2011 because the cultures were very different. Nubians have always inhabited northern Sudan and we for sure do not have the same customs either. Each part of the country is different.
    Are you even Sudanese? You act like you know so much about us but you know so little. Sudan used to be comprised of Christian kingdoms all the way down to Khartoum and as far north as Thebes. The frescoes depicting Sudanese/Egyptian people before our Islamic period/Arabic influence shows the way we look has always been our natural phenotype.
    [​IMG]
    upload_2020-4-22_4-5-38.jpeg
    upload_2020-4-22_4-6-11.jpeg
    [​IMG]

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    upload_2020-4-22_4-9-47.jpeg
    There’s some history for you. These are frescoes from makuria dating from 1100 A.D. the Arabs tried relentlessly to infiltrate and take control and even then they were fought off for 700 years! Now you can stop speaking on my people about what you think we should be.
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2020 at 5:18 AM
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  5. Justnotyou

    Justnotyou New Member

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    This is what culture means. the ideas, customs, and social behaviour of a particular people or society.

    Nubian culture
    Nubians in modern Sudan include the Danagla around Dongola Reach, the Mahas from the Third Cataract to Wadi Halfa, and the Sikurta around Aswan. These Nubians write using their own script. They also practice scarification: Mahas men and women have three scars on each cheek, while the Danaqla wear these scars on their temples. Younger generations appear to be abandoning this custom.

    Nubia's ancient cultural development was influenced by its geography. It is sometimes divided into Upper Nubia and Lower Nubia. Upper Nubia was where the ancient Kingdom of Napata (the Kush) was located. Lower Nubia has been called "the corridor to Africa", where there was contact and cultural exchange between Nubians, Egyptians, Greeks, Assyrians, Romans, and Arabs. Lower Nubia was also where the Kingdom of Meroe flourished. The languages spoken by modern Nubians are based on ancient Sudanic dialects. From north to south, they are: Kenuz, Fadicha (Matoki), Sukkot, Mahas, Danagla.

    Nilotic culture.
    Most Nilotes continue to practice pastoralism, migrating on a seasonal basis with their herds of livestock.Some tribes are also known for a tradition of cattle raiding.

    Through lengthy interaction with neighbouring peoples, the Nilotes in East Africa have adopted many customs and practices from Southern Cushitic groups. The latter include the age set system of social organization, circumcision, and vocabulary terms.


    Both nilotes & Nubians share language affinities, scarification, circumcision practices, pastoralism & other cultural exchanges.
     
  6. Justnotyou

    Justnotyou New Member

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    You're confusing dinka with Nilo-saharan, dinka is a tribe that falls within the nilotic group, both Nilotic & Nubian languages fall under the larger eastern Sudanic languages which again belong to the Nilo-saharan linguistic group.

    I didn't specifically write, the Dinka are similar to Nubians I provided evidence proving the two aren't as alien as you'd like people to believe.
     
  7. Justnotyou

    Justnotyou New Member

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    Traditional Religious practices are different from one tribe/ethnicity to the next & Nilo-saharans aren't the exception. Dinka traditional religious practices are not only different to Nubian but also to shilluk, nuer, Pari, Luo, Maasai, Turkana, kalenjin, Acholi, Lango & even Anuak but guess what they all still have some cultural affinities. To be culturally similar it doesn't imply the two ethnicities are a copy paste version of each other...
     
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  8. Justnotyou

    Justnotyou New Member

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    But there is accurate dna dataset for north Sudanese. & they're an extremely mixed bunch of people, the beja are closer genetically to Nubians & Southern Egyptians while darfurians are closer to south Sudanese except more mixed with West Eurasians. Central Sudanese Arabs are more in line with Egyptian copts & Arabs but still have South Sudanese in them.

    The English & Germans don't speak the same language but they're still connected culturally get it now?

    In this day & age with the internet at my fingertips I don't have to be Caribbean to have facts about them neither Sudanic so your attempts of making whatever I write here questionable are futile try & humor me with data instead.

    Thank you but please Nubians have the same look as other typical horn Africans so it's not unique to you guys alone in fact the Maasai & Samburu nilotes all the way down in Kenya & Tanzania have that natural phenotype you're so proud of. I also know enough about Sudanese history to have my own informed opinions on when I should speak about them. Just because ignorant plebs here allow you to keep on lying doesn't mean I have to also. So let's maintain civility in our discussions going forward, correct me when I'm wrong & I'll do the same to you when you're off.
     
  9. Visio Dei

    Visio Dei ابن وادي النيل

    Jun 5, 2019
    Ratings:
    +518 / 73 / -76
    A certain type of person uses this lingo and from now on I have no interest in debating with you about my peoples genetic history. You can argue amongst yourself.
     
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  10. ababda

    ababda Well-Known Member

    May 21, 2013
    Ratings:
    +1,783 / 134 / -107
    Culture fall under religion as well, dear.

    Although Dinka and Nuer are different tribes, they have very similar beliefs in comparison to Nubians further north. Also Nubians are not pateralist, Also our values and convention is very different, and there is nothing wrong with that.

    Dinka and others was pastoralist Nubians never were. We lived always along the Nile Valley and set up shop. Nubians were never pastoralist, in fact people general looked down on pastoralist or nomads.


    Yoruba(Niger-Congo) language groups

    [​IMG]


    Afar Tribe(Afroasiatic) language group

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    You can find facial scarification in groups throughout Africa, but that does not mean they are related. However, i do admit we all share a common humanity or ancestors, but that cut across the whole entire planet. So there is no argument there.

    Lastly Dinka and many South Sudanese groups never practiced FGM nor do they practice male circumcision. I will give them respect for that, and it pretty much died down in the North. We called it pharaonic circumcision. I know other groups for example Kenyans nilotic besides Luo and Somalis practice circumcision, but does that make them related nope!
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2020 at 1:14 PM
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  11. Justnotyou

    Justnotyou New Member

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    Ok.

    In comparison fair enough. But I hope we both agree the belief system that you quoted earlier was undoubtedly adopted from interactions with Egyptians as its documented to be in use for the past 3000 years only but Nubians had even more ancient, 1000 Years worth of tradition beliefs system that are indeed more in line with nilotic beliefs, in comparison of course. Nubians practiced pastoralism to a point that's why they looked down on nomads. If you don't believe me then ask yourself why Nubians today are lactose tolerant, can eat chocolate, ice cream & other dairy products if they never domesticated animals or came across them?

    It's a form of cultural practice that these communities share & I didn't use this to imply Nubians are related to nilotes oh my God. Lol

    You dont understand, circumcision, scarification, pastoralism, are all cultural affinities yes but alone I agree it does not & should not mean communities that practice them are related instead when used together with language & genetic affinities.
     
  12. ababda

    ababda Well-Known Member

    May 21, 2013
    Ratings:
    +1,783 / 134 / -107

    That right here is debatable, since it all started with a group called Ta Seti.

    "Most surprising, evidence that early pharaohs ruled in A-Group Nubia was discovered by the Oriental Institute at Qustul, almost at the modern Sudanese border. A cemetery of large tombs contained evidence of wealth and representations of the rulers and their victories. Other representations and monuments could then be identified, and in the process, a lost kingdom, called Ta-Seti or Land of the Bow, was discovered. In fact, the cemetery at Qustul leads directly to the first great royal monuments of Egypt in a progression. Qustul in Nubia could well have been the seat of Egypt's founding dynasty
    ."

    The Nubia Salvage Project | The Oriental Institute of the University of Chicago

    It is not because of that they were former pastoralist. I seriously doubt that.

    Language is very interesting, for example the Hausa (chadic), and Omotic people speak an Afroasiatic language, however genetically and physically they don't match with Afroasiatic groups. For example, there is a debate among Archaeologist of the ancient culture of Kerma whether the population spoke an Afroasiatic language or NiloSahran language.

     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2020 at 2:21 PM
  13. Justnotyou

    Justnotyou New Member

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    Genetically About 40% of the Hausa men belong to the R1b haplogroup which is mostly found in Europe. Hence their heritage is easily traceable to non Africans similarly 45% of the male nilotes today belong to the oldest human haplogroup A meaning they were literally the aboriginal population of the sahel, north Africa & the entire world 200,000 years ago but that isn't as important to this discussion as the E1B1B & B haplogroups nilotes share with 50% of the male Nubians today indicating a similar heritage, when you compare the female mtdna the bulk, 60% is similar to nilotic mtdna which implies the female Nubians & female nilotes are actually sisters enforcing the notion the two groups aren't alien to one another. main-qimg-3ffcb0d29cf5841f8090f6b698cfc0fc.png

    Also your article doesn't disapprove Nubians to be Eastern Sudanic speakers it merely tried to suggest the kerma could've had loan words from neighbouring afroasiatic groups from researchers back in 1981 but quickly during 2010 to 2017 with evidence researchers Claude Rilly & Julien Cooper turned back on that entry & still support its eastern Sudanic elements.

    Get this, Barack Obama is a nilote but his genetic makeup isn't entirely nilotic only his ydna lineage is. Does this help you understand that Nubians aren't as different to other Nilo-saharans as you'd wish them to be?
     
  14. ababda

    ababda Well-Known Member

    May 21, 2013
    Ratings:
    +1,783 / 134 / -107
    Also your article doesn't disapprove Nubians to be Eastern Sudanic speakers it merely tried to suggest the kerma could've had loan words from neighbouring afroasiatic groups from researchers back in 1981 but quickly during 2010 to 2017 with evidence researchers Claude Rilly & Julien Cooper turned back on that entry & still support its eastern Sudanic elements.

    Get this, Barack Obama is a nilote but his genetic makeup isn't entirely nilotic only his ydna lineage is. Does this help you understand that Nubians aren't as different to other Nilo-saharans as you'd wish them to be?[/QUOTE]

    As i mentioned before it was pretty much a combination of both, and that is what that article indicated from a 2017 study from Julien Cooper. Also historically the nubians groups did not all speak NiloSaharn language, some like the Medjay who the Beja claims to descent actually speak an Afroasiatic language.

    Sai island a ruins in Northern Sudan
    Saï (island) - Wikipedia

    In other words, both language families Nilosharan and Afroasiatic were spoken in the region. Including ancient Egypt which is Afroasiatic.

    However the reality does not stop who were are obviously closely related to.

    Sudan


    Upper Egypt


    That is just facts. I admire South Sudanese culture, but in reality they are more related to Nilotic groups further south. There is nothing wrong with that. The Obama analogy was horrible and does not help your cause, sis! Nice try! We are not going to agree on this sis, so let agree to disagree!


    Here is what i found, it is 2015 maybe a little outdated.

    Although i don't agree with the entire results.

    Also

    The Arab part i don't necessarily agree with, but whatever!
     
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2020 at 5:08 AM
  15. Visio Dei

    Visio Dei ابن وادي النيل

    Jun 5, 2019
    Ratings:
    +518 / 73 / -76
    You are terribly misinformed, it’s laughable. Why continue to argue points when you aren’t even a part of said ethnicities. What are you trying to prove? Are you just bored or what. You are like that font that desperately wants everyone to think they are some special hotep. You are annoying, emshii!
     
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  16. Kenny cash

    Kenny cash Well-Known Member

    Aug 17, 2019
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    +9,958 / 919 / -943
    Nice thanks for Sharing OP
     
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  17. Justnotyou

    Justnotyou New Member

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    As i mentioned before it was pretty much a combination of both, and that is what that article indicated from a 2017 study from Julien Cooper. Also historically the nubians groups did not all speak NiloSaharn language, some like the Medjay who the Beja claims to descent actually speak an Afroasiatic language.



    Sai island a ruins in Northern Sudan
    Saï (island) - Wikipedia

    In other words, both language families Nilosharan and Afroasiatic were spoken in the region. Including ancient Egypt which is Afroasiatic[/QUOTE]

    Ok I don't disagree with this, it's actually pretty true both Afroasiatic & Nilo-saharans contributed to Ancient Nubian culture.

    Look I think you're mixing me up with some other person you were earlier discussing with, I'm not here debating whether South Sudanese are less related to nilotes further south or whether Nubians are less related to upper Egyptians in comparison to South Sudanese I was only referring to the similarities between both Sudanese groups so maybe you didn't comprehend it, please go ahead & reread all my replies if you do get one saying Nubians didn't have anything to do with Egyptians or Nubians are 100% nilotic then mention me & I'll delete it right away & apologize for presenting misleading information, until then I'm still standing with whatever I've been writing here.

    It's neither here or there since the maasai are also just as cut off from other Nilo-saharans interms of genetics as they shift more towards south cushitic afroasiatic speakers not to speak of the Mbuti central Sudanic speakers who are pure pygmies.


     
  18. Lifeisreal

    Lifeisreal Well-Known Member

    Jan 14, 2012
    Ratings:
    +6,406 / 1,156 / -583
    Pure bliss to the ears

    @Justnotyou @Visio Dei @ababda .This discussion is really interesting. It makes me wanna explore Sudan even more
     
  19. Justnotyou

    Justnotyou New Member

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    ad hominem
    /ad ˈhɒmɪnɛm/

    adjective
    1. (of an argument or reaction) directed against a person rather than the position they are maintaining.
      "an ad hominem response"
    adverb
    1. 1.
      in a way that is directed against a person rather than the position they are maintaining.
    Look I'm not trying to be like you here. This is the internet, not the house for the privileged few, I found this forum a few weeks ago & I'm treating it like any other forum by trying to contribute meaningfully to whatever interests me just like I do through quora, Twitter, LinkedIn, WordPress, wiki, & many other great sites I'm currently in.

    If I'm misinformed then correct me, if I annoy you then ignore me just don't waste my time by mentioning me anyhow.
     

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