2020-10-24 — Panscepticon


Last updated2020-10-24T09:52:03


203906 TJN, replying to TJN, 14, #1 of 1673 🔗

While one who sings with his tongue on fire
Gargles in the rat race choir
Bent out of shape from society’s pliers
Cares not to come up any higher
But rather get you down in the hole
That he’s in.
But I mean no harm nor put fault
On anyone that lives in a vault
But it’s alright, Ma, if I can’t please him.

204087 ▶▶ TJN, replying to TJN, 12, #2 of 1673 🔗

Courtesy of Mr Dylan, having got the first post I’ll use it as a handle for a couple of technical questions:

I’ve read on here and heard elsewhere (Dr Yeadon I think) that the current PCR tests can pick up the protein spikes on all coronaviruses. Does anyone know if this correct?? Are many of these +ves actually merely picking up colds?

Also, might it be possible that a previously infected individual who now has T-cell immunity can get ‘reinfected’* when coming into contact with the virus again, but that it never actually appears as an infection – rather the immune system recognises and zaps it before it can do anything? Maybe that (part) accounts for the number of +ve tests we are now seeing.

*When I say ‘reinfection’, I mean the virus enters the body and maybe even starts to replicate, but doesn’t get anywhere (because the T-cells or whatever quickly get it).

As an aside, I fail entirely to understand how we can calculate an IFR without having defined an infection – I don’t know if there is any such definition, but I haven’t seen one.

204134 ▶▶▶ Pancho the Grey, replying to TJN, 15, #3 of 1673 🔗

Mike Yeadon is quite clear that the the T-cells are the first line of defence against infection and in his inteview with James Delingpole explains it in a clear and logical manner. He also explains that T-cells are far less specific and will attack viruses which are only a partial match, hence the fact that even though CV-19 was novel, it was sufficiently like other Corona viruses for the process to work. It is only in the case of a massive infection that they become overwhelmed and then anti-bodies are generated to combat it. The difference between the two is that T-cells replicate at a far faster rate than antibodies, hence the need for longer hospitalisation for the seriously infected who need additional support whilst the antibodies build up to the required level. Sadly, sometimes the process fails and the patient dies.
This process is true for all viral infections.

204401 ▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Pancho the Grey, 13, #4 of 1673 🔗

Thanks Pancho – I’m actually listening to Delingpole-Yeadon now. It’s astonishing – and telling, I think – how hard it is for non-specialists like me to pick up even the basics of what is going on in the immune response. It’s as if we are not supposed to know.

As the good doctor says, SAGE must know about the T-cell process, yet why do they spout nonsense about 94% of us still waiting to be infected?

204552 ▶▶▶▶▶ Binra, replying to TJN, 5, #5 of 1673 🔗

The study of pathology is not seeking to understand health any more than current ‘climatologists’ seek to understand climate. The framing of pathogenesis operates a negative set.
Biologists can and do uncover a more symbiotic realm of Communication and synergy, but the new wine does not fit into the old wine bottle of fear and leverage – except as can be marketised and weaponised to serve the established funding channels and agencies.

That ‘immunity’ or simply ‘health’ or life is equipped and able to meet challenges has an extension into our conscious acceptance of responsibility.

The wish to evade responsibility and ‘get away with it’ for as long as possible is part of fear of life and healing as loss of right to persist in an ‘abnormal’ or unnatural pattern of behaviour, taken as if it is life, freedom or control, and imposed upon the body, and the body corporate (world), through the mutually aligning of negative self definition and masking narrative identity.

Why do they lie?
Because they have been doing so with impunity for so long that they belive theirs is the right to tell you what you are to think and do.
And for the most part the Many have willingly gone along with what they believe to be power of protection – that absolves them from a core responsibility for their own consciousness, their own life and their own consequences.

204539 ▶▶▶▶ Binra, replying to Pancho the Grey, 2, #6 of 1673 🔗

Look up Dr Tom Cowan’s recent vid talk. (If you are interested).

I appreciate everyone’s willingness on behalf of a truly human future as distinct from systemic subjection to bio-tech control.

After a science 101 and a breakdown of studies that do not show substance for their claims, he offers a short simple overview of the body’s defences or detoxification strategies. He puts T-cells as the third line of defence.

If you are only concerned with a compromised or undermined health, then you might be forgiven for thinking they are the first.

There are known treatments for ‘massive infection’ that are effectively walled out and not used. High dose Intravenous Vit C being but one of them.

Listening to Yeadon (Good man) retelling the virus story last night made me aware that homeopathy is denied as an option because it cant be accounted for – which is not altogether true, but exactly HOW a packet of non-living genetic code fragments has a capacity to ‘hijack’ a living cell, reproduce itself and mutate so as to evade antibodies – is frankly, a fairy story – albeit with tragic consequences.

That new toxic exposures initiate new challenges to adaptive survival drives the pattern of disease, along with lack of support (nutrition and morale).
That we generally aggravate this immune response by trying to suppress or eradicate it is why if the full account were known, the developed countries would likely be found to suffer iatrogenic disease as the main cause of death rather than as the third most recorded. (US and UK).

The idea that we suffer more from our defences or reactions than the event itself – as a result of fear and control agenda COULD BE an Awakening to the Life we forgot and discarded as a result of invoking and masking under a ‘god’ of control.

Any toxic fear or triggering of fear as attack, brings up old trauma patterns. This is below the threshold of a rational mind. When Cowan says we can become sick as a result of delusional perception and reaction he might recognise that all of us have deeper fear of a nature that is hidden until triggered and which our thinking mind has no relationship with but was made to mask over.

204967 ▶▶▶▶ NorthumbrianNomad, replying to Pancho the Grey, 4, #7 of 1673 🔗

People who get covid, are asymptomatic and then get rid of the virus – must be doing something right even if the state says they aren’t developing immunity. I suggest nature knows better than the blasted state. The T cell explanation is persuasive. The terror headlines of “people are developing no immunity” are not. If people didn’t develop defence against the virus they would all die of it

204160 ▶▶▶ Silke David, replying to TJN, 6, #8 of 1673 🔗

TJN, I am not a medical person, but having watched a lot of experts on YT, primarily Sucharit Bhakdi, a micro biologist, who explains things very well, I say yes to your first 2 points:
A PCR tests will pick up DNA of every, or most, Corona viruses.
It also picks up dead cells and DNA/RNA which is till hanging around in our body. So, yes, after our T cells have killed any virus, the rubbish is around and will be picked up by a PCR test.

204413 ▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Silke David, 3, #9 of 1673 🔗

A PCR tests will pick up DNA of every, or most, Corona viruses.

If that’s true, it’s surely massive – all those thousands of students imprisoned because there’s a cold going around the campus. Whole sections of UK society effectively locked down to save them from a common cold.

Really?? Even with my cynicism and contempt for the perpetrators of this shitshow I struggle to come to terms with that.

Are common colds being presented to the public and politicians as covid-19 cases? It’s an astonishing question to have to ask, yet I really don’t know where we stand on this.

205169 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to TJN, 1, #10 of 1673 🔗

Don’t forget, they cycle the test excessively so it almost inevitably picks up some viral remnants.

205254 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #11 of 1673 🔗

Of course, that’s another problem – although in terms of perception and presentation there’s a big difference between covid-19 remnants and ordinary common coronavirus cold fragments.

205539 ▶▶▶▶▶ Jon G, replying to TJN, #12 of 1673 🔗

There are many problems with the PCR test and the wider approach of mass testing healthy people, but the test picking up other coronaviruses isn’t one of them. It doesn’t.

205651 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Jon G, #13 of 1673 🔗

Ok, thanks for being specific on that. I’d be surprised if it did, as it would be effectively useless – but the contrary has been stated, which left me wondering.

204554 ▶▶▶▶ djaustin, replying to Silke David, 3, #14 of 1673 🔗

PCR 101: First you have to know the DNA code of the part of the virus DNA you want to detect and use a primer of complimentary DNA that will lock onto the virus part. This is then amplified through multiple thermal cycles using an enzyme called polymerase. Then detected at the end of the process. It does not distinguish “live” or intact virus from parts of the virus, but provided the primer is unique to the virus, it will only detect the presence of that virus alone. Primers are chosen to detect sequences unique to the virus of interest.

Of course if the virus has stopped replicating, there won’t be a lot of DNA around to amplify, so amplification will not be detected as easily (needs more cycles and hence noise) because the starting level is so low. If virus is replicating there may be 1000, 10000, 100000 times as much and detection is more reliable.

204838 ▶▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to djaustin, 1, #15 of 1673 🔗

So we need to know what primer the PCR is aimed at, and which coronaviruses carry that primer?

That should be defined somewhere, so we can answer the question about whether the current tests are detecting common colds?

Sorry to ask such basic questions, but it’s very hard to get to firm ground here (and indeed for any data produced by official sources).

I would suppose the current covid PCR tests are all aimed at the same primer, but that may well be very naive of me …

204852 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ chris c, replying to TJN, 1, #16 of 1673 🔗

According to Guy153 who knows whereof he writes (he can come by and correct me if I’m wrong) the test targets specific RNA fragnments most of which are found only in SARS-2 except for one which is also found in SARS 1 which you are unlikely to have. Not in other coronaviruses, yet – how much do they exchange DNA?

205076 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to chris c, #17 of 1673 🔗

That was my understanding of it, until recently when I started reading on here that the test picks up fragments of all coronaviruses. Hence my question.

Maybe we need a technical section on the forums pages, or perhaps the ‘medicine’ one will do, and I should put up this (and other questions I have) there. I don’t know how well frequented those forums are.

206711 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Binra, replying to chris c, #18 of 1673 🔗

When they found various code fragments in 4 Wuhanese patient’s lung fluid, they recognised patterns also in other coronvirus (I don’t know if they looked for part matches with other viruses). They took these parts as pieces of Humpty Dumpty and used existing coronvirus sequences to fill in the gaps and defined this computer stitched composite as Sars-cov2 – then without any real science to assume so, declared covid-19 to be the disease caused by sars-cov2.

So while the PCR can discover even a tiny or molecular sample of a target IF the test is sensitively and rigorously undertaken (the result of which has NOTHING to do with diagnosis or contagion), it will only find what it is primed to detect.

However because almost all of you HAVE emotionally invested in the reaction to a covid19 nightmare, the settling to ‘normal’ with statistical data and its various shenanigans can keep you IN the Virus, instead of looking to see what it is all based on.

If global media lockstep Inc had not blitzkrieged the ‘discovery’ as a WHO telling us we were naked – defenceless – and doomed to lose our loved ones – perhaps by infecting them with deadly contagion! No one would have noticed anything unusual. But they DID and it IS, and as a result loved one will die and almost everyone’s financial status is being degraded – along with the denial of most basic human rights.

205456 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ djaustin, replying to TJN, #19 of 1673 🔗

Yes. The CDC have published a standard set of primers – which are chains of nucleosides designed to lock onto parts of the SARS-COV2 (and only that) genome. You will see on the link that some are general and some are FDA approved for the purposes of testing for infection. Don’t apologise for basic questions. Scientists should, as a matter of duty, be able to explain matters clearly. If they can’t then they fail in that duty. It’s not my field btw, but the approval process for a diagnostic test is rigorous. They won’t be detecting rhinovirus (most common cold) or the other four endemic coronaviruses (two of which give 1/6 colds).They would fail to gain approval for such use if they did.

205463 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ djaustin, replying to djaustin, 1, #20 of 1673 🔗

One other nice point – the FDA have actually approved a three-in-one PCR test to detect SARS-COV2, influenza A and influenza B. So yes, with the right primer mix, one COULD detect all five coronaviruses.

205652 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to djaustin, #21 of 1673 🔗

Thanks – as per my reply to Jon G above.

Scientists should, as a matter of duty, be able to explain matters clearly.

Yes, and in my experience good scientists always can explain complicated matters clearly – it’s a byproduct of clarity of thought.

Trouble is, not much on covid-19 seems to be clear – the product of deliberate obfuscation I think.

I have a technical background, but not in biology/medicine, and when it comes to reading covid research I find it very hard to get to any reliable bedrock.

204590 ▶▶▶▶ Binra, replying to Silke David, 3, #22 of 1673 🔗

Yes but also the true or precise provenance of the original from which the primer sequences are selected is unclear and I would claim unreproducible. (Different versions of the RT-PCR test use different primers or short code sequences supposed to be unique to the original ‘novel’ virus).

Some commentary on this lack of clarity is given by Dr Tom Cowen

So without an actual whole virus, identified and cultured, so as to sequence its genetic makeup – we could be reading the goats entrails – or rather the re-consitution of fragments found in a Wuhan patient’s vial matters via computer assisted program (weaving with selected coronaviral genomes for continuity) – is NOT a proven discovery of a whole virus. Nor was it ever claimed to be proven as cause of any disease (legal foresight there), and so what we are priming with and seeking for – even with all the known issues of artefacts and false positives – is … WHO knows what.

I understand that in ancient times only a priest could read the goat’s entrails.
The ability to define and declare disease vectors, along with diagnostic and testing parameters and mutate thee at will – sounds more like the virus in mind to be vigilant against.

Only what ‘Simon Says’ must be obeyed. Install your obedience chip by playing along, for a ‘normal’ is anything to which we become conditioned. Killing other people can be made ‘normal’. there IS no love in the mask of virtue, and this is revealing itself as fear set in control seeking to remain hidden.

And WHO told you you were naked? – sayeth the Lord.

205275 ▶▶▶▶▶ Alethea, replying to Binra, #23 of 1673 🔗

Your thinking is lovely, Binra. Expansive and wise.

204460 ▶▶▶ David, replying to TJN, 3, #24 of 1673 🔗

Yesterday, I replied to the comment about a builder who allegedly received mixed responses to 15 tests carried out on himself:

…: if the government are confident that the tests are accurate, they could destroy the “false positive” argument by sending 100 samples from a single individual to each of their labs and publishing the results.

Does anyone know if anything like this basic level of quality check has been carried out?

204839 ▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to David, #25 of 1673 🔗

A good idea, and to me very logical one.

Presumably they’ve already carried out such quality checks …

Not sure where the results can be found though.

205173 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to TJN, #26 of 1673 🔗

Surely, those youngsters quarantined abroad for weeks while getting repeat positives would answer that question.

205252 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Cheezilla, #27 of 1673 🔗

Presumably they were just picking up viral debris, after a true +ve at the start.

I read David’s comment as presuming the builder was actually -ve, although he still got a range of results.

204546 ▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to TJN, 1, #28 of 1673 🔗

As people are receiving positive test results for tests they’ve not even had, it’s a moot point….

204570 ▶▶ Sir Patrick Vaccine, replying to TJN, 3, #29 of 1673 🔗

Mahyar Live From Anti-Lockdown March


203907 DRW, replying to DRW, #30 of 1673 🔗

Guess who’s first?

204043 ▶▶ CGL, replying to DRW, 4, #31 of 1673 🔗


203911 arfurmo, replying to arfurmo, #32 of 1673 🔗

Bronze again

204008 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to arfurmo, #33 of 1673 🔗

The Irish third?

203920 John Stone, replying to John Stone, 2, #34 of 1673 🔗

BMJ RR answering global bureaucrats in DC (Bollyky and Kickbusch):

Re: Preparing democracies for pandemics Re: Preparing democracies for pandemics Thomas J Bollyky, Ilona Kickbusch. 371:doi 10.1136/bmj.m4088
Dear Editor
I find the basis of this article [1] disturbing. The authors assume a common ground of what is information and what is “disinformation” – disinformation is a problematic concept since if it was simply untrue it would be false information instead perhaps of information which is disapproved of in certain quarters.
The foundations of liberal democracy lie in public accountability and open discussions of policy, whereas what we have here is an appeal to authority: there are apparently superior beings to whom democracies should defer. Are they government or corporate bureaucracies (or perhaps non-profit foundations), and where do they gain legitimacy? If we arrive at the point where corporate entities censor what people may read and write we have a problem. In the end being able to ask even the most difficult questions is not only an essential component of freedom but also of safety. Thomas Bollyky and Ilona Kickbusch cite the article by Wilson and Wisongye ‘Social media and vaccine hesitancy’ [2], but we have reached the point where the most reasoned contributions posing important questions about vaccine programmes to be rolled cannot be shared on social media (as I was pointing out here just yesterday) [3].
I do not believe there are any issues in the current geo-political episode which should be off the table.
[1] Thomas Bollyky and Ilona Kickbusch ‘Preparing democracies for pandemics’, BMJ 2020; 371 doi: https://doi.org/10.1136/bmj.m4088 (Published 23 October 2020)
[2] Wilson SL, Wisongye CS. ‘Social media and vaccine hesitancy’, BMJ Glob Health 2020. doi:10.1136/bmjgh-2020-004222
[3] John Stone, ‘Freedom of speech and the generic ban of vaccine criticism on social media’, 22 October 2020, https://www.bmj.com/content/371/bmj.m4037/rr

206724 ▶▶ Binra, replying to John Stone, #35 of 1673 🔗

It could be proposed that the covid psyop is a necessary redefining and reiteration of a controlled narrative amidst a world in which a consciousness is growing as to a lack of substance – not just with regard the the vaccine and pharmaceutical model, but across the spectrum of a corporately invested scientific model – which includes awareness of fundamental and systemic corruptions.
Too big to fail means – everyone and everything else has to ‘fail’ to support the ‘model’.

The choice of the term ‘vaccine hesitancy’ is itself propaganda – as is the death stats use of the term ‘vaccine preventable diseases’. I have it that UK and US and perhaps other developed nations have iatrogenic disease as our third leading cause of death. But you don’t easily find such information.

203924 HawkAnalyst, replying to HawkAnalyst, 103, #36 of 1673 🔗

Hang in there guys
Things are changing. People are no longer listening to the government(s)

Even pro lockdown people are ignoring it

I speak to loads of people privately and they tell they are breaking lockdown. Seeing friends and family

Stay strong guys please

203928 ▶▶ annie, replying to HawkAnalyst, 31, #37 of 1673 🔗

We will. I’m out there.

203963 ▶▶ HelenaHancart, replying to HawkAnalyst, 23, #38 of 1673 🔗

Me too. I’m through with this s##t and so is my family!

204018 ▶▶ HawkAnalyst, replying to HawkAnalyst, 13, #39 of 1673 🔗

I know of so many examples of people ignoring it

204524 ▶▶ SweetBabyCheeses, replying to HawkAnalyst, 20, #40 of 1673 🔗

I do see that the tide is turning. However I think that many covidians have always been hypocrites – seeing their own friends & family but always ready to point the finger at others. Even our own politicians who’ve invented these ridiculous “rules” don’t even stick to them.

204555 ▶▶▶ Victoria, replying to SweetBabyCheeses, 8, #41 of 1673 🔗

Great post

204961 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to SweetBabyCheeses, 8, #42 of 1673 🔗

Well said. Its pretty much one rule for me, another one for thee….

205153 ▶▶▶ HawkAnalyst, replying to SweetBabyCheeses, 5, #43 of 1673 🔗

Even before 4th July, people started breaking the rules
Friends arranging to meet at the supermarket car
Bumping “into” each other in the park

At the start in March, people accepted (and believed) the rules the government set.
Now they don’t. It has not helped the government that they have kept changing the rules!
A lot of people have been writing to their MPs as well.
Most people are sensible with lockdown breaking rules.
The government needs to trust them and us.

204670 ▶▶ Adam, replying to HawkAnalyst, 5, #44 of 1673 🔗

While we still need to protect the vulnerable it’s wonderful that people are starting to wake up

204738 ▶▶ Moomin, replying to HawkAnalyst, 10, #45 of 1673 🔗

Sadly not my experience, just had a bad one and I’m the one accused of being mad because I simply can’t understand why all my friends and family are following the rules. It’s very lonely.

205182 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Moomin, 4, #46 of 1673 🔗

Must be very hard for you. Make the best of this group to save your sanity!

205282 ▶▶▶ Alethea, replying to Moomin, 4, #47 of 1673 🔗

Moomin, you are not alone. I watch everyone around me complying with rotten, destructive and mad laws and wonder what on earth is motivating them.

204931 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to HawkAnalyst, 6, #48 of 1673 🔗

Hear, hear!!!

203926 Albie, 35, #49 of 1673 🔗

Anyone in Tier 3 who thinks it’s just for 28 days is in for a shock. Until March earliest. Ditto the 17 day for break for Wales.

203933 ▶▶ annie, replying to Tenchy, 18, #51 of 1673 🔗

“But while the report stresses the importance of ventilation, it says other factors must also be considered such as “thermal comfort”, exposure to pollution and energy use.”

So you can maybe stop short of freezing to death.

203940 ▶▶ Ewan Duffy, replying to Tenchy, 14, #52 of 1673 🔗

Has anyone told Greta? The effect on CO2 emissions would be enormous.

203951 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Tenchy, 4, #53 of 1673 🔗

😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 . Annnd don’t forget to wear your masks

203967 ▶▶ Jakehadlee, replying to Tenchy, 16, #54 of 1673 🔗

Nice – do they mention anywhere the research from Yale that showed lower temperatures negatively impact the ability of the immune system to fight off viral infection?

Or maybe that’s the point of the advice?

204162 ▶▶▶ Voz 0db, replying to Jakehadlee, 7, #55 of 1673 🔗

Yep… That’s the point of the “advice”! THEY are going for the “Great Rest”!

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204204 ▶▶▶▶ T. Prince, replying to Voz 0db, 4, #56 of 1673 🔗

Gates looks so…….natural

204855 ▶▶▶▶▶ chris c, replying to T. Prince, -2, #57 of 1673 🔗

Not enough medals

205056 ▶▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to T. Prince, 1, #58 of 1673 🔗

When there’s a job to be done, just do it well.

204683 ▶▶▶▶ Adam, replying to Voz 0db, #59 of 1673 🔗

Is that gates old school uniform it looks like the SS mindset of eugenics is still with Bill the ripper

204386 ▶▶▶ stephenreid, replying to Jakehadlee, 3, #60 of 1673 🔗

Not that it matters to me but I heard something on BBC R4 some months back about open windows being helpful to viruses as humidity actually stops the spread – and opening the window dehumidifies the room . My kids’ school opens windows and doors throughout the day , which will be interesting in January.

205187 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Jakehadlee, #61 of 1673 🔗

It used to be called “catching a chill.”

203973 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Tenchy, 15, #62 of 1673 🔗

I thought elderly people died of fuel poverty and cold in quite large numbers every winter?!

203988 ▶▶▶ Steve Martindale, replying to A. Contrarian, 12, #63 of 1673 🔗

Indeed that is probably the plan, when this Government came in it said it would have a final solution to the problem of elderly people’s care costs, it is just that nobody thought it would be that kind of ‘final solution’!

204050 ▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Steve Martindale, 6, #64 of 1673 🔗

It’s not just the elderly. There’s just too many of us, ask Bill Gates.

204168 ▶▶▶▶▶ Voz 0db, replying to Rowan, 1, #65 of 1673 🔗


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204551 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to Voz 0db, 2, #66 of 1673 🔗

I thought it was the advent of vaccines, better hygiene, medicines, etc, that Gates is pushing for that’s been the driving factor in population growth, especially in developing countries. Or am I missing something??

204831 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Voz 0db, replying to Lms23, #67 of 1673 🔗

Yes… you’re missing something!

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206739 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Binra, replying to Lms23, #68 of 1673 🔗

Sanitation, nutrition and morale show as the features that reduced the diseases that mostly focused on the poor. Not vaccines.
It is not hard to find the data on such diseases and the curves being almost flat before the vaccination was introduced.Dissolving Illusions by Dr Suzanne Humphries goes into a lot of detail.

205060 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Voz 0db, #69 of 1673 🔗

Yes, Gates has been consistent for many years with his loathing for the general populace and sometimes I can almost agree with him.

205194 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Rowan, #70 of 1673 🔗

I get the impression that anyone over 50 is on the shortlist.

205552 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Cheezilla, #71 of 1673 🔗

The old, the not so old and of course the frail. Bill will spread his net as wide as possible.

205555 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Voz 0db, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #72 of 1673 🔗

Yes… They will just let the younger slaves alive because these are the ones already formatted to accept (in some cases demand) smartphones and apps and robots. and “free” stuff!

They are also the ones more prone to build the machines and write code for the next phase… and feel accomplished by this! After all they “think” they are working to build a “BETTER and GREENER and SUSTAINABLE FUTURE”!

Old and obsolete uman animals are just going to the recycling factory…

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And if by 2030 the number of slave heads is still above 4 billion, more “pandemics” will be deployed!

203977 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Tenchy, 10, #73 of 1673 🔗

Good ventilation has been obvious from the start and applies to any virus or respiratory problem.
Try that though in our 6 rebuilt high schools. Greenery/ fuel economy paramount so only 2 sides have windows, not opposite so no through draft. No wonder the kids started keeling over when the sun came out.

204177 ▶▶▶ Silke David, replying to karenovirus, 2, #74 of 1673 🔗

Our local housing association has an award winning eco office building. In the summer people sit under large umbrellas and with fans on as the roof lights heat the room up, in the winter they all have portable heaters.

203996 ▶▶ Caroline Watson, replying to Tenchy, 26, #75 of 1673 🔗

Most public buildings are far too hot. I can’t believe that many people heat their bedrooms, including at night, and sleep with the windows closed. I’ve been known to close mine (in Northumberland) if snow is actually coming inside!
This is actually a sensible suggestion and what most older people, particularly in the countryside, know anyway. Diseases spread between housed cattle if their buildings are not properly ventilated and people are no different.

204030 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Caroline Watson, 6, #76 of 1673 🔗

People no different from housed cattle?
Right on!

204051 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Caroline Watson, 1, #77 of 1673 🔗

Then turn the heat down.

204532 ▶▶▶▶ SweetBabyCheeses, replying to Rowan, 5, #78 of 1673 🔗

In a public building? There’s normally some little Hitler in charge of the thermostat. It’s often behind locked doors!

205336 ▶▶▶ Cheshirecatslave, replying to Caroline Watson, 2, #79 of 1673 🔗

As long as it’s not freezing I open the back door in the house if I’ve visitors and car windows if I’m in a friend’s car. I’m vulnerable and as a child, my Mum said fresh air was a protection against germs and I follow her advice.I have no wish to go crazy not seeing people or going anywhere.

204007 ▶▶ HelenaHancart, replying to Tenchy, 16, #80 of 1673 🔗

Ventilating a house is vital to keep mould at bay and air moving around but…nothing kills the poor, ill or vulnerable elderly off quicker than cold temperature. Maybe that’s the point. People won’t use heat energy if it’s going to be wasted out through the window. Then they’ll really get ill. Two birds with one stone – increased deaths, decrease in energy use and carbon emissions! See where this is going?!

204183 ▶▶▶ Silke David, replying to HelenaHancart, 6, #81 of 1673 🔗

In Germany it is common knowledge to air your accommodation several times a day for up to 10 minutes.
We have a very different heating system, with usually individually controlled radiators, so just turn the radiator down while you open the window in that room. It is called Stosslueften.
The room does not cool down noticeably and the fresh air is wonderful.

205418 ▶▶▶▶ Jane, replying to Silke David, #82 of 1673 🔗

Yes, and lueften the Bettwaesche. Hang it out the window to air and let the sun kill any germs and generally freshen things up.I do this every day weather permitting. Of course this is easier if you sleep under a Daunendecke and not a tucked-in blanket wrap.

Air-dry your laundry outdoors if at all possible.

BTW, Has Greta said anything about the huge energy waste of electric clothes dryers . . . ?

204010 ▶▶ Hoppy Uniatz, replying to Tenchy, 15, #83 of 1673 🔗

“The Coroner, a medical man of precise habits and unimaginative aspect, arrived punctually, and looking peevishly round at the crowded assembly, directed all the windows to be opened, thus letting in a stream of drizzling fog upon the heads of the unfortunates on that side of the room. This caused a commotion and some expressions of disapproval, checked sternly by the Coroner, who said that with the influenza about again an unventilated room was a death-trap..”

Dorothy L Sayers, Whose Body , 1923

204013 ▶▶ Fiat, replying to Tenchy, 2, #84 of 1673 🔗

So we are caught between the Scylla of Covid 19 and the Charybdis of climate change.

204038 ▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Fiat, 1, #85 of 1673 🔗

And possibly the BLM of Damocles if government failure to subsidise central heating is deemed racist by the BBC.

204040 ▶▶▶ Rosie, replying to Fiat, 3, #86 of 1673 🔗

Anyone needing info about climate change (as false a this pandemic) can look here for a summary of the arguments and issues plus many links

204045 ▶▶▶▶ CGL, replying to Rosie, 10, #87 of 1673 🔗

I have always believed in climate change, but not man-made climate change. I would like someone to show at what point this planet’s climate stopped changing? All for conservation and efficient use of finite resources though – that’s just common sense.

204639 ▶▶▶▶▶ TT, replying to CGL, 5, #88 of 1673 🔗

In any event, as most wine amateurs will know, wine grapes were cultivated as far north as Norway in medieval times – that hasn’t been possible for a long while as things have cooled off since, but it’s obviously quite unlikely that the warming of the 1st millenium AD was man-made…

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204909 ▶▶▶▶▶ Graham, replying to CGL, #89 of 1673 🔗

A very fair point, but what on earth has that to do with the lockdown?

205205 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Graham, #90 of 1673 🔗

Same movers and shakers.

205554 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Graham, 1, #91 of 1673 🔗

That’s a fair point as well.

206755 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Binra, replying to Graham, #92 of 1673 🔗

The man-made bit of both works a guilt and fear leverage on the minds of the people. Environmentalism is trained to self-hate the human virus.The AGW has the same fundamental objectives as are being tolled out as progressive and repeated lockdowns – to recondition people to guilt for existence, to be paid for by sacrifices by which to ‘save’ the system, but which can never be paid off.

205339 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheshirecatslave, replying to CGL, #93 of 1673 🔗

I agree with you.

206745 ▶▶▶ Binra, replying to Fiat, #94 of 1673 🔗

Don’t forget the cancel culture!

204484 ▶▶ fosterc, replying to Tenchy, 6, #95 of 1673 🔗

The April 1st spoof news story is going to be hard to spot next year.

204674 ▶▶ Adam, replying to Tenchy, #96 of 1673 🔗

It will make no difference whatsoever

204903 ▶▶ OpenWindowsOpenPubsOpenShopsOpenBorders, replying to Tenchy, 3, #97 of 1673 🔗

Actually we should have done that in the first place, open windows and fresh air (even the polluted air of an inenr city) are better for your health than stfufiness and dust. We shouldn’t have locked down, at all, should have just opened the f***ing windows. As several of us were saying back in March.

You can offset pollution to some degree with vit B and C – I have seen studies that support this.
You may NEED to have respiratory ‘disease’ to detox.
Vit D is very active in immune support. T-cells are not even activated if D levels are too low.
Go figure, your ‘health care’ system pharms you for sickness. OR thse facts would not just be published and ignored but part of a collective education.
Protecting the fear does not do more than mask and suppress the symptoms. This can be great as a temporary intervention in which to centre or regroup.

205185 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Tenchy, #99 of 1673 🔗

There were reports last month of kids shivering in classrooms with windows and doors wide open. That will be fun in January – not!

206778 ▶▶▶ Binra, replying to Cheezilla, #100 of 1673 🔗

Reconditioning our physical is possible. I have an encyclopedia from the 50s with photos of scarcely clad Swiss boys getting fresh air and sun outside in the snow – they carried their desks outside.

203931 Marialta, replying to Marialta, 14, #101 of 1673 🔗

Just read Dr Simon Clarke’s article ‘What lockdown sceptics get wrong’ in the Spectator. It’s terrible! Apparently there is no serious debate about herd immunity as ‘no precedent for natural infections providing lasting herd immunity’

203947 ▶▶ Jakehadlee, replying to Marialta, 11, #102 of 1673 🔗

That’s because when they talk about immunity what they think it means is eradication. The zero Covid fantasy permeates their thinking.

203966 ▶▶ Caroline Watson, replying to Marialta, 16, #103 of 1673 🔗

Just the fact that there have been numerous viral pandemics and we weren’t wiped out as a species centuries ago.

204009 ▶▶▶ p02099003, replying to Caroline Watson, 3, #104 of 1673 🔗

Especially the pandemics that are thought to have killed 50% of the total human population.

204044 ▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to p02099003, 5, #105 of 1673 🔗

Which is why crying wolf over the equivalent of a bad dose of flu is so dangerous.

206810 ▶▶▶▶▶ Binra, replying to OKUK, #106 of 1673 🔗

But every time they do it they get richer and gain always ore control. Why not have it ALL?

204022 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Caroline Watson, 1, #107 of 1673 🔗

Humans 2 million years, virus every 10 years or so = 200,000 Terrible Global Pandemics.

204095 ▶▶ Bill h, replying to Marialta, 9, #108 of 1673 🔗

Yes indeed.

When Europeans first went to the Americas, the plagues of infections they brought wiped out most of the locals. However, immunity developed, and the native populations stopped dying in numbers from Yellow Jack, smallpox etc.

The author is either ignorant, a charlatan or a knave. Perhaps all three..

206821 ▶▶▶ Binra, replying to Bill h, #109 of 1673 🔗

Such plague preceded the Europeans.
Read Lies my Teacher told me by James W. Loewen
It isn’t about that but includes that fact as well as a lot more of a nuanced history. Also an fun and good read in my opinion.

204128 ▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to Marialta, 11, #110 of 1673 🔗

You may have seen my comments on that article. I expressed scepticism about that proposition, since I’m old enough to remember getting measles. Here’s what I think was going on back then.

Measles is highly infectious (R0 around 15, say 5 times Covid) and recovery confers lifetime immunity . Between say 1900 and 1960 the number of cases was in decline, probably due to improved living conditions, clear water, sanitation and so on. The serious statistical study of measles started very early: I found a paper dated 1906. By 1960 it was well-known that the disease was largely a disease of children; that it ran in roughly two-year cycles; the number of cases varied from 100,000 to 500,000 a year, with a pretty stable case fatality rate of 1 in 2,000. There was a high rate of serious non-fatal injuries: brain damage, blindness and deafness for example.

This is characteristic of, and described in the scientific literature as, the behaviour of an endemic infection in which the majority of the population is immune, but there is a steady influx of susceptible individuals (births). What happens is that when the number of susceptible individuals reaches the “epidemic threshold” there is an serious outbreak, infections spread rapidly, and the number of susceptible individuals falls to well below the threshold. In this case, because mixing of children happens largely at school, the outbreaks aligned with the new school year.

It is simply a verbal quibble to deny that this was herd immunity. The adult population at any given time had herd immunity, and must have done since cases were observable almost entirely among children. It is reasonable to presume that herd immunity among adults was based on natural immunity after exposure to the disease as children.

It is true, of course, that young children as a group did not have herd immunity. They formed a distinct “compartment” with a different dynamic. But it’s at best a verbal trick, and at worst simply wrong, to say that herd immunity was not achieved for measles.

Whatever you want to call it, the “measles situation” represented a tolerable way of life in the 1950s. We did not put children under severe restrictions to try and eradicate this disease, although the serious consequences were sufficiently bad to give impetus for development of a vaccine for that purpose.

204652 ▶▶▶ The Filthy Engineer, replying to Richard Pinch, 4, #111 of 1673 🔗

“ There was a high rate of serious non-fatal injuries: brain damage, blindness and deafness for example.”

But they don’t go around calling it “long-Measles”.

204928 ▶▶▶ OpenWindowsOpenPubsOpenShopsOpenBorders, replying to Richard Pinch, 5, #112 of 1673 🔗

Standard medical practice is to give the measles vaccine once 1 year old, not at birth. This reflects confidence that the existing mix of natural and vaccine induced immunity gives enough herd immunity to make even an extremely contagious disease (R0 around 15 as vs 2 to 3 for flu or covid) unlikely to hit someone in a year of posible exposure time. Measles, from what I can tell, is actually a much more serious disease than covid as well as much more transmisible, and we never locked down for it.

205451 ▶▶▶ Jane, replying to Richard Pinch, 1, #113 of 1673 🔗

“It is true, of course, that young children as a group did not have herd immunity. They formed a distinct “compartment” with a different dynamic. But it’s at best a verbal trick, and at worst simply wrong, to say that herd immunity was not achieved for measles.”

Not sure what you mean by this.
Perhaps it hinges on how you define “young children.”

I too had measles, chicken pox, and mumps, along with virtually all of the other children in my school. We were grades 1 to 4 in one school room, so, ages 6 to 10. My mother was German and I have no idea whether she had had these childhood diseases. If not one would think that she and other grown-ups who had not had the diseases would be vulnerable when the children caught them. But I think there were a few children who did NOT catch the diseases.

When I myself lived in Germany as an adult in the seventies I had a boyfriend who did get mumps, and of course mumps is very dangerous for adult males. I was very surprised that he had not had it as a child. But back in those days we didn’t obsess about these diseases.

Another interesting topic is herpes simplex I (cold sores). My mother was always prone to these. I may have picked up the virus from her. I recall quite suddenly having a terrible outbreak that covered most of my mouth and the whole area below my mouth, almost down to my chin. One of my classmates also had a similarly bad outbreak so quite possibly I gave it to her—or she to me? But I htink we were the only two in the school room to get that. Also infectious, so why didn’t more get it?

I do not know the status of HSV from an immunity point of view. I do know that once you get it the virus “hides” in the nervous system and will come out again and cause outbreaks if triggered in various ways. So that is a virus that we have to live with. Cannot “eradicate” it. I suppose I would have to kill myself to eradicate it once and for all . . . Shingles is also caused by a herpes virus. One simply has to live with it and avoid the triggers (too much sun; stress; poor nutrition; ya da ya da). . .Same for corona viruses, including SARS-CoV-2.

204557 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to Marialta, 1, #114 of 1673 🔗

Because we still have polio and smallpox rampant in the UK….

204618 ▶▶▶ Sylvie, replying to Lms23, 3, #115 of 1673 🔗

Without a vaccinaction programme, we would presumably have periodic outbreaks of polio and smallpox in the same way as we used to do for measles, as Richard describes above.
The difference with CV19 seems to be that the newborns and young can be infected and recover without grave detrimental effect. So herd immunity can be achieved in the long term without the help of vaccination.
Our transitional problem, which to an extent decreases with each death of an infirm infectee, is the low immunity in the infirm cohort.

205221 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Sylvie, 1, #116 of 1673 🔗

Their immunity is low to every infectious disease, full stop.

205397 ▶▶▶▶▶ Sylvie, replying to Cheezilla, #117 of 1673 🔗

Not so. I don’t think I’m likely to get measles again, even after 67 years. Or whooping cough. Or mumps. Or scarlet fever.

204854 ▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to Lms23, #118 of 1673 🔗

Smallpox was eliminated in the UK by a highly coercive vaccination programme, and ultimately eradicated, as far as we know, throughout the world. Polio similarly was eliminated in the the UK in the 1980s. Before polio vaccination, the UK did show the characteristic two or three year cycle between about 2,000 to 7,000 cases a year.

205458 ▶▶▶▶ Jane, replying to Richard Pinch, 2, #119 of 1673 🔗

We had the polio vaccines (first the jab, and later the oral) in the fifities, but no vaccines for measles-pox-mumps. We all knew a few people who had had polio and had a withered limb. My cousin had it and consequently has a withered arm.

Polio is a far more serious disease than covid-19. In large part because it strikes the young and turns them into cripples.

206841 ▶▶▶▶ Binra, replying to Richard Pinch, #120 of 1673 🔗

These are not true statements.
Smallpox was increased by vaccinations, but disappeared worldwide or so diminished as to no longer merit diagnosis, regardless whether vaccine programs were run or not. Polio was very similar in some respects to covid as an umbrella diagnosis that covered heavy metal toxic damage – firstly for herbicides in the sugar cane industry – with the big ‘wave’ associated primarily with DDT – which is not banned in the ‘third’ world. The changing of diagnostic parameters assigned what had been coined polio to other medical definitions.

You may be invested in your beliefs but if you research honestly you will be disturbed, but in time better off with a more truly aligned appreciation of what really makes us ill. No one will see what they are unwilling to accept. I am not seeking to deny your right to your beliefs.

204918 ▶▶ OpenWindowsOpenPubsOpenShopsOpenBorders, replying to Marialta, 1, #121 of 1673 🔗

There is every precedent for natural infections giving lasting immunity, maybe those zealots could try the weak argument the covid might be different from almost every preceding disease (one or two viruses can do multiple infections, or worse one second time), but when they start saying that lasting immunity is a rarity they haven’t a leg left to stand upon. Colds and flu infect people time and again only because they have mutated to a substantially different new strain second time round, but covid is proving itself very stable, almost no mutation since 2019 despite having infected >10% of the world.

Is there proof of that?

The four other endemic coronaviruses typically reinfect about once every two years. Lifelong immunity to any pathogen is not a given and some viruses are never cleared, for example Chickenpox, HIV. Different viruses evade immunity in many different ways. Severity of infection may, however, wane with passing years of exposure.

206917 ▶▶▶▶ Binra, replying to djaustin, #124 of 1673 🔗

HIV is now recognised to not cause AIDS. There is deep controversy as to whether such a retrovirus exists, quite apart from whether it is ‘a’ cause of AIDS. Again asymptomatic (healthy) people triggering PCR positives are ‘infected’ (by voodoo?).

However AIDS is an umbrella term for a dysfunctional and weak immune function – such that diseases that normally don’t have any severer clinical significance for the 99% can be fatal.

Researching the AIDS controversy would offer a lot of perspective on current events. There is a lot online but ‘Fear of the Invisible’ By Janine Roberts is a good read.

The pathogenic assignment to notional entities is one narrative approach to a set of symptoms. But once in the mind as official or ‘settled science’, the testing can generate ‘hidden or latent infections threatening to wipe us all out – and thus generating otherwise unimaginable funding and control under a War set against evils. Not a few HIV test positives committed suicide on being told they had an incurable and fatal disease which deadly drugs could delay but they had to act Now!

The Media version of history is not usually challenging the established channels of wealth and power

Once the Virus has been set as the new Ideal – every kind of opinion can bask in its glory.
I have seen studies where different variants are classified. However, I also see a virus that tells us in advance what it is going to do….

205213 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Marialta, #126 of 1673 🔗

It was absolutely dreadful. If the DT continues to print such rubbish, I’ll be cancelling my subscription – which I only took out so I could follow Toby’s links!

206805 ▶▶ Binra, replying to Marialta, #127 of 1673 🔗

The focus on pathology discards actual immunity and substitutes it ongoing and repeated ‘boosting’ as the meaning for immunity. Likewise with a collective adaptation.

They ignore health as irrelevant – and something to bring INTO the parameters of medical oversight – often from Day 1 in many countries with vaccinations. (Vacca = cow).
But also with the shift from clinical cionditions to risk factors uncovered by blood tests and biomarkers, that trigger medications that in many bring on toxic effects called ‘side effects’ when recognised but treated with further medications for the most part as development of disease, aging and a body that is inadequate, weak and full of faulty genes.
The fear that you are weak and unsupported feed you to the fear that doesn’t rest through and heal in a good or cleansed heart, but freaks out and runs for the magic pills – that MUST be powerful because they have all these ‘side’ effects.

If you are on such a regimen it may be wise to educate and find support in weaning from them. I am not suggesting anything but a process of re-education – led by you and guided by such advisors and support as you discern or discriminate to truly serve your well being.

203934 Neil Hartley, replying to Neil Hartley, 54, #128 of 1673 🔗

So the Lancet will publish a pro-lockdown study from Dr You Li but not an anti-mask study from Denmark. Really! Of course, if we all crawl under our respective beds and never come out again then no viruses will ever get spread. My God do people need to wake up. The article from Dr Franklin was especially moving in describing all we used to love about life. We are left with an impoverished existence. Rise up folks.

204288 ▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Neil Hartley, 13, #129 of 1673 🔗

The Lancet lost all credibility when it published that bogus anti-HCQ article a few months ago then had to retract it. It has obviously been bought off so it’s no surprise that they won’t touch the Danish article. MW

204565 ▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 11, #130 of 1673 🔗

“The Lancet blasts Trump, says voters should not reelect him

The Lancet, a prestigious medical journal, on Friday ripped President Trump’s “inconsistent and incoherent national response” to the coronavirus pandemic, saying in an unsigned editorial that voters should ensure he does not get a second term.

“Americans must put a president in the White House come January, 2021, who will understand that public health should not be guided by partisan politics,” wrote the peer-reviewed journal founded in 1823. ”

I think this tells us a lot.

205082 ▶▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Lms23, 7, #131 of 1673 🔗

Bought-off doesn’t begin to cover it, does it? Shocking. MW

205466 ▶▶▶▶ Jane, replying to Lms23, 3, #132 of 1673 🔗

““Americans must put a president in the White House come January, 2021, who will understand that public health should not be guided by partisan politics,” wrote the peer-reviewed journal founded in 1823. ”’

Erm, and hey, what about medical journals not getting involved in partisan politics . . .
Gosh, none of the Lancet editors noticed this own-penalty?

205461 ▶▶ Jane, replying to Neil Hartley, 1, #133 of 1673 🔗

Post today on my university email list:
As soon as Biden becomes president his first action will be to mandate masks nationally.” This and similar drivel from graduates of our most prestigious uni. I doubt that one of these highly educated proselytizers has read a single actual study of mask effectivenes.

203936 Ewan Duffy, 22, #134 of 1673 🔗

Got challenged about my maskless status for the first time in months this morning (in fact, only the second time since all this madness started). Also in my local Iceland store 🙁

Was allowed to continue shopping when I advised that I was exempt.

203937 PastImperfect, 13, #135 of 1673 🔗

Hyde Park at noon.

203942 Saved To Death, replying to Saved To Death, 20, #136 of 1673 🔗

Begging to be ‘permitted’ to open your gym is not going to help at all in the long term. We need to restore our freedom – not join in with our oppression by engaging in campaigns to modify the list of so called essential services.

203971 ▶▶ Caroline Watson, replying to Saved To Death, 26, #137 of 1673 🔗

And the idea of people exercising in masks must not be normalised. That cannot be safe, particularly when the air conditioning in gyms is functioning at very low capacity.

203981 ▶▶ Albie, replying to Saved To Death, 26, #138 of 1673 🔗

I take your point but it’s good that 100 gym owners have united. If they weren’t in contact with each other and had just defied the rule by opening up then the authorities would’ve picked them off one by one until they all closed. I hope they all stick and fight together.

204025 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Albie, 21, #139 of 1673 🔗

If the effing spineless grovelling Welsh supermarkets refused to implement Dripfeed’s insane rules, what the ffff. could he do about it? Close them all down? Have armed guards over the kettles 24/7?

204090 ▶▶▶▶ Sarigan, replying to annie, 5, #140 of 1673 🔗

Cups of tea matter

204695 ▶▶▶▶▶ Julian S, replying to Sarigan, 3, #141 of 1673 🔗

Black coffee matters

204937 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ OpenWindowsOpenPubsOpenShopsOpenBorders, replying to Julian S, 3, #142 of 1673 🔗

Blocked aisLes Matter

204690 ▶▶▶▶ Adam, replying to annie, 1, #143 of 1673 🔗

Food rationing is a cause of rioting ?

204934 ▶▶▶ OpenWindowsOpenPubsOpenShopsOpenBorders, replying to Albie, 2, #144 of 1673 🔗

Good to see them united, now they need to be forceful together. 100 of them together in open defiance, rather than mere futile attempts to work through a legal system utterly biased against them, can win.

205114 ▶▶▶ Country Mumkin, replying to Albie, 2, #145 of 1673 🔗

It will give confidence to other industries to join together.

204298 ▶▶ Cranmer, replying to Saved To Death, 11, #146 of 1673 🔗

Point taken, but the Liverpool gym rebellion was still an incredibly brave action, at a time when almost everyone seems on board with the madness.

203944 annie, replying to annie, 22, #147 of 1673 🔗

Dripfeed is insane. Clearly.
Criminally insane.

204057 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to annie, 5, #148 of 1673 🔗

Attenborough voice: “But for some turtles, the journey will end only in disaster…rather than heading towards the open sea some turtles inexplicably go further inland, their slow, agonising progress taking them towards their final date: starvation and dessication.”

204294 ▶▶▶ Cranmer, replying to OKUK, 3, #149 of 1673 🔗

Attenborough voice: ‘here we see the devastation of the Arctic caused by climate change brought on by carbon emissions, particularly from air travel. We wanted to film more, but my private jet was due to leave.’

204094 ▶▶ Tony Prince, replying to annie, 4, #150 of 1673 🔗

Same league as Sturgeon

203946 Arnie, replying to Arnie, 14, #151 of 1673 🔗

Found on the BBC of all places!


Welcome to The Great Reset.

This is year 1 of 10. Do you think DecadeOfHealth is going to be good for us? Or good for them? Total enslavement or death? When death is likely to be the easier or better option…

Ironically we are not in the front line for the ongoing cull, at least not yet. The poor countries have to bear the brunt of death. And yes it has already begun. These things take time hence why ten years. If this is the first year have you any idea what things will be like after ten?

Of course we are already undergoing our own cull, the elderly, suicides, cancer, heart disease, etc. All tended to by the useful idiots who think that feeding others to the crocodile will save them. It won’t.

Only the top 1% of society will get out of this, in fact are driving this.

Our enemy is very clever. Yes even Boris! They are extremely determined. They have tried this before (MERS, SARS, etc.) and each time they have failed they have learned from their mistakes. They are relentless.

The oncoming cull, for that is what it is, is is going to dwarf The Holocaust, it probably does already but the devious sods have divided & conquered so well that everything is compartmentalised so we can’t see the total deaths or the total costs. And we won’t until either it’s too late or it doesn’t matter because they can no longer be stopped.

There are only two ways this is going to stop. Either with a mass uprising. Sorry that ain’t gonna happen, as a race we are lemmings. The other way is the law of sod or unintended consequences. When an unintended consequence happens there will be a very limited opportunity to break the cycle of what is happening.

That’s it. The Great Reset or Holocaust 2.0. It’s all a matter of perspective, which side of the fence you are sat on.

Six billion people need to die, we are a civilised society so this can be managed in a ‘civilised’ way and the herd mustn’t be spooked or they’ll never get to the abattoir. It will be a terrible waste of resources if the military needs to be used to resolve this problem. Far better if the population(s) self manage this population deflation themselves with the minimum of fuss.

The virus? They had to use a mild virus, Ebola Zaire has a 90% death rate but leaves the area uninhabitable. If you’re going to ‘inherit the earth’ you don’t want it contaminated do you?

203958 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Arnie, 4, #152 of 1673 🔗

Holocaust 2020.

204097 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Bella Donna, #153 of 1673 🔗

Probably more like 2021, as the various vaccines (all backed by BMGF) will then be ready and they are very clearly intended to be the main culling tool.

203960 ▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to Arnie, #154 of 1673 🔗

Cant seem to find that article at that link. Has it been removed?

203983 ▶▶▶ Old Normal, replying to Saved To Death, #155 of 1673 🔗

Works fine for me.

204006 ▶▶▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to Old Normal, #156 of 1673 🔗

The link works – just cant seem to find an article containing that text.

204586 ▶▶▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to Saved To Death, #157 of 1673 🔗

It doesn’t. Those are ON’s thoughts on the subject.

203984 ▶▶ Caroline Watson, replying to Arnie, 6, #158 of 1673 🔗

So, if the idea of this is depopulation, why not just ‘let the virus rip’? After all, it is doing as Nature intends and taking out the non productive and reproductive members of society who, in a modern capitalist economy, are the least productive and useful.

Why all this hysteria and cost when the virus could be left to get on with the job on its own?

That’s where the conspiracy theories fall down.

203994 ▶▶▶ KBuchanan, replying to Caroline Watson, 6, #159 of 1673 🔗

I’ve thought about that and it may be as simple as Boris et al do not want to appear too callous. All the political class will want their gravy train to continue.

205244 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to KBuchanan, 1, #160 of 1673 🔗

Can they possibly appear any more callous than to date?

204016 ▶▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to Caroline Watson, 25, #161 of 1673 🔗

If we just ‘let the virus rip’ and got on with our lives we would not even notice it. This is not the deadly virus it is made out to be. It is the hysteria and lockdown that is doing the killing not the virus.

This is primarily about total control of the population. The depopulation is an inevitable side effect.

204165 ▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Saved To Death, 4, #162 of 1673 🔗

Agreed mostly, but they really do want to depopulate and massively at that, so full control is essential. The reality is that the globalists no longer need the great masses to sustain them and they want the planet for themselves as a clean green game reserve.

It was all written down on the Georgia Guidestones back in 1980 and this is what the Great Reset is really all about. Nearly all of us will have no place in this clean green world.


204209 ▶▶▶▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to Rowan, 6, #163 of 1673 🔗

I do actually agree with what your saying. They do wish to kill us off. While I describe it as a side effect I do think its an intentional side effect and they are responsible for the death they are causing but just that primarily they need to maintain control. As long as they have control they can continue to pretend to save us while implementing policies that will certainly kill us.

205079 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Saved To Death, 3, #164 of 1673 🔗

We are on the same wavelength. It’s a big step to accept that those at the very top regard us as highly undesirable and eminently disposable. However, it’s a vital step, that has to be taken, if we are to have any chance of surviving the Covid scam. Those vaccinated for Covid-19 will be dead people still walking, at least for a brief while.

204956 ▶▶▶▶ OpenWindowsOpenPubsOpenShopsOpenBorders, replying to Saved To Death, 4, #165 of 1673 🔗

If this virus came out a few decades ago before widespread PCR testing was available we’d never have noticed it, just seen a minor excess death count (minor because most excesd deaths are from lockdown not covid) which would be written off as “winter-flu-arriving-late”.

204058 ▶▶▶ CGL, replying to Caroline Watson, 7, #166 of 1673 🔗

Because they already know that the genocidal results of the restrictions will kill more than the virus?

204088 ▶▶▶ dickyboy, replying to Caroline Watson, 2, #167 of 1673 🔗

As savedtodeath says, this virus is too pathetic to do much widespread harm. But thats a good feature, as mentioned in the article Ebola could kill 90pc but would leave the planet uninhabitable for the elite.

204591 ▶▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to dickyboy, 2, #168 of 1673 🔗

But are there enough of the elite to sustain themselves? Too many are childless, and frankly couldn’t change a lightbulb on their own if they had to.
They might well get their vision, then wish they hadn’t.

204778 ▶▶▶▶▶ Rosie, replying to Lms23, 2, #169 of 1673 🔗

That’s why the Roman elite used to adopt healthy children.

205248 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Rosie, 1, #170 of 1673 🔗

The Romans had a lot of slaves …..

204111 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Caroline Watson, 10, #171 of 1673 🔗

Rather than falling down I think the conspiracy theories are becoming less like theories everyday.
The fact that countries all over the world are using the same virus repression measures that look a lot like the sort of actions an occupying force would take,should be the clincher.

204137 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 2, #172 of 1673 🔗

Yep. We’ll fight the bollox a lot more effectively if we acknowledge the worldwide attempts to reduce our numbers, destroy small/medium businesses, and implement 2030.

204117 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Caroline Watson, 3, #173 of 1673 🔗

A virus is far too indiscriminate and unreliable. Vaccines can be tailored for the end user, as is already being tried out for the flu vaccine.

204275 ▶▶▶ Cranmer, replying to Caroline Watson, 1, #174 of 1673 🔗

If ‘they’ really want to control population, why not just instigate a mass sterilisation programme in developing countries? It would be expensive – massive bribes to dictators and large grants to those undergoing the procedure – but in the long run would be cheaper than their current destruction of the global economy.

204304 ▶▶▶▶ RichardJames, replying to Cranmer, 3, #175 of 1673 🔗

You haven’t been keeping up with the Alt-News. Bill Gates has already done this in India, to the extent that there is alleged to be an arrest warrant out for him in some areas.

Huge numbers of people are alleged to have been made sterile by his vaccination programme.

204696 ▶▶▶▶▶ Adam, replying to RichardJames, 1, #176 of 1673 🔗

Well done to the Indians now for Soros Clinton’s Blair etc

205559 ▶▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to RichardJames, 2, #177 of 1673 🔗

Also rather ironically, 496,000 left with some form of paralysis as a result of one of Bill’s polio vaccine campaigns in India. Bill was just practicing then, but Covid-19 will be the real opportunity for him.

205249 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Cranmer, 1, #178 of 1673 🔗

HPV vaccine?

204315 ▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Caroline Watson, 5, #179 of 1673 🔗

If they ‘let the virus rip’ (pure propaganda of course) it wouldn’t actually kill many people would it? That’s the whole point. This has never been about a virus.

We ‘conspiracy theorists’ are looking at the cover it gives for total control: cashless society, mandatory vaccines, constant testing, collapse of the NHS, immunity passports, total surveillance, UBI and the whole works.

Some people believe that Bill Gates meant what he said when he cackled, ‘You’ll notice the next one’ in an interview i.e. a much worse and really deadly virus could be released at any time. What do you think Fauci et al’s documented ‘Gain of Function’ research on weaponising viruses is for?

Failing that, dodgy vaccines, suicides, lack of health care, extreme poverty and disease, widespread despair, lack of opportunity/enthusiasm to form relationships etc will result in the desired controlled cull. There’s no big hurry, ‘they’ can just sit back in their gilded palaces and enjoy the show. MW

204593 ▶▶▶▶ ianric, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 3, #180 of 1673 🔗

The theory the purpose of lockdowns is population control makes sense because when you look into it the effects of lockdown. Since March the NHS has been shut down to non covid patients which results in people dying due to lack of medical care.

An effective method of population control is to discourage people having children. There are numerous ways lockdowns does this. If you don’t live with your partner, you may not be able to meet them in your home due to lockdown restrictions such as you can’t have anyone from outside your household in your home. The venues where people meet new partners such as pubs, nightclubs, concerts, festivals and gyms are forced to close or operate under restrictions. Lockdown  prevents people forming and maintaining relationships which means people who would otherwise have children won’t do so.

If couples live together, lockdowns discourage them from having children. If people loose their livelihoods either through loosing jobs or their businesses going bust, they will not want children. A dystopian world where everyone wears masks, the economy has collapsed and there are petty, stupid and pointless regulations is not a world people want to bring children into.

204650 ▶▶▶▶ TT, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, #181 of 1673 🔗

A deadly virus against which they themselves can be efficiently vaccinated in advance would be their wet dream I assume… but you’d have to test that out thoroughly in real-life situations before going ahead with the big one, wouldn’t you?

205075 ▶▶▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to TT, 2, #182 of 1673 🔗

Hard to say how this could be being planned but Gates did say to camera what he said. Maybe he has a twisted sense of humour! A lot of people seem to believe that another, more serious, virus is in the pipeline but I’m not sure. As I said above, they can achieve population reduction without going that far and the current Cult of Covid is keeping most of the world’s populations passive and accepting of the ever-increasing tyranny. MW

204949 ▶▶▶ OpenWindowsOpenPubsOpenShopsOpenBorders, replying to Caroline Watson, 1, #183 of 1673 🔗

The virus clearly isn’t capable of depopulation, however, whether a deliberate conspiracy or a sickening cockup, lockdowns certainly do a pretty effective job of culling people.

205472 ▶▶▶ Jane, replying to Caroline Watson, 3, #184 of 1673 🔗

“Why all this hysteria and cost when the virus could be left to get on with the job on its own?
That’s where the conspiracy theories fall down.”

No, they don’t (I’ll ignore the use of the detestable distraction “conspiracy theory” for now).

The disease isn’t enough to cull enough. The true goal is to get everyone in a panic so that they ACCEPT the draconian measures that make up the Great Reset. The plandemic is a pretext and also, remember, an exercise.

Please do watch Reiner Fuehlmann’s video. it is very clear. Should be linked on the right at the LD site homepage.

207194 ▶▶▶ Binra, replying to Caroline Watson, 1, #185 of 1673 🔗

Because ‘the reaction’ is the killer – not the ‘virus’.

204053 ▶▶ CGL, replying to Arnie, #186 of 1673 🔗

If I shared this, I’d just get – “Oh that sounds good – what’s your problem with it?”

204596 ▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to CGL, 1, #187 of 1673 🔗

The people you’d share it with are keen to commit suicide, or watch millions die of starvation are they? I bet not.

204583 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to Arnie, 4, #188 of 1673 🔗

“If a malevolent group or government suddenly gained world-dominating power through technology, and there was nothing to stand in its way, it could lead to an extended period of abject suffering and subjugation. A 2017 report on existential risks from the Global Priorities Project, in conjunction with FHI and the Ministry for Foreign Affairs of Finland, warned that “a long future under a particularly brutal global totalitarian state could arguably be worse than complete extinction”.”

China. Worldwide Social credit system. Big Tech monitoring everyone, censoring and destroying dissent.
I can see it happening all too easily. It’s already started, with certain people deciding what can and what can’t be questioned, discussed, or seen.

204641 ▶▶ Sylvie, replying to Arnie, 1, #189 of 1673 🔗

This riff on planned depopulation via virus/sterilising vaccine is totally loony.
Even before the pill arrived in the early 1960s people were campaigning for population reduction as a response to poverty and the subjugation of women, but then it was a pro contraception movement. I remember something called the International Planned Parenthood Foundation, and ‘family planning’ was the PC phrase for contraception.
It has slowly become clear over the last 50 years that availability of contraception is fervently desired by women, and population naturally stabilises or even falls when it is both available and women get the opportunity for education and satisfactory health care for themselves and their children. This outlandish nonsense only makes the sceptic case look ridiculous.

204760 ▶▶▶ Rosie, replying to Sylvie, 1, #190 of 1673 🔗

There’s a serious problem, Sylvie. On the one hand the outlandish ideas do sound absurd and for a great many people, as you say, make the sceptic case look ridiculous…on the other hand it’s true that there has for a long time been plans to radically reduce the global population. It’s fully documented and embedded within the global warming scam.
It’s a tight schedule because they want it down to one billion by 2030. ‘They’ of course are not monolithic and so different global players have different details to their plans.

204833 ▶▶▶ LS99, replying to Sylvie, 2, #191 of 1673 🔗

Not so fast Sylvie, wasn’t the lady who founded planned parenthood a feminist and heavily into eugenics – search it, Margaret Sanger.

205260 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to LS99, 2, #192 of 1673 🔗

Wasn’t she Kellogg’s mentor?
He was a serious nutjob!

205479 ▶▶▶▶▶ Jane, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #193 of 1673 🔗

I think Kellogg was her mentor or at least funded her.

But, there is a big difference between voluntary control of one’s own reproduction and forced contro by the state. Surely that is pretty obvious? Whatever happened to the hidden hand, where everyone’s individual decisions lead to the most efficient use of resources?

Oh, I guess that doesn’t apply to fertility (snark).

It’s free market for economic decisions but centralized state for fertility decisions . . . Hmmm …

203950 Ewan Duffy, replying to Ewan Duffy, 4, #194 of 1673 🔗


Confirms that the West of Ireland has been worst hit by the impact of lockdown measures relative to the rest of the country, primarily due to relying more on tourism/hospitality for employment.

In other news, the Irish Independent is reporting that the first vaccine will be available in Ireland before Christmas (paywall article so I haven’t linked to it). I won’t be in the queue to get it.

203964 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Ewan Duffy, 17, #195 of 1673 🔗

Someone suggested all the pro Lockdowners, particularly all civil servants and government bodies should be injected first. I agree.

203992 ▶▶▶ GiftWrappedKittyCat, replying to Bella Donna, 21, #196 of 1673 🔗

I’m a civil servant. Please don’t lump me in with the lockdown zealots. I’m as fed up with this crap as the rest of you.

204001 ▶▶▶▶ Caroline Watson, replying to GiftWrappedKittyCat, 12, #197 of 1673 🔗

And me!

205467 ▶▶▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to Caroline Watson, 1, #198 of 1673 🔗

And me!

204014 ▶▶▶▶ captainbeefheart, replying to GiftWrappedKittyCat, 6, #199 of 1673 🔗

Nice to know that not all civil servants “are just following orders”

204028 ▶▶▶▶ thinkaboutit, replying to GiftWrappedKittyCat, 8, #200 of 1673 🔗

Civil servants, like other people ,should be given a choice over vaccination. Lockdown zealots should be given first dibs on the vaccine, after all, “if it saves one life”.

204120 ▶▶▶▶▶ Tony Prince, replying to thinkaboutit, 6, #201 of 1673 🔗

Don’t think you’ll have to give them first dibs, they’ll be queuing up around the block with their sleeves rolled up (and their masks on of course!)

203976 ▶▶ Marialta, replying to Ewan Duffy, 27, #202 of 1673 🔗

Mike Yeadon says as there is a recovery rate of 99.9 % there is no need for a vaccine, also the very people who it is intended to protect – the elderly – do not respond well to flu vaccines. Also it is designed to only limit symptoms, it does not prevent infection.

203990 ▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to Marialta, 9, #203 of 1673 🔗

Of course it doesn’t, makes sir Patrick very rich though!!!

204969 ▶▶ OpenWindowsOpenPubsOpenShopsOpenBorders, replying to Ewan Duffy, 3, #204 of 1673 🔗

I’m usually pro-vaccine (anti-lockdown, anti-restrictions, but know that for viruses worth worrying about, of which covid is not one, vaccines work), but I actually hope the covid vaccine has bad side effects immediately visible. Anything enough to get it withdrawn. It will serve the fools in government right for pursuing an insane course of waiting for a vaccine when a herd immunity strategy could have been more efective and less harmful.

205267 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to OpenWindowsOpenPubsOpenShopsOpenBorders, 1, #205 of 1673 🔗

I don’t think this is about a vaccine. The short-term goal is the “health passport”

207211 ▶▶▶▶ Binra, replying to Cheezilla, #206 of 1673 🔗

All narrative leverages cover for regulatory stricture. Once the law and its enforcement is established – along with a mindcapture of support, any number of parameters can be set to degrade and diminish the capacity or consciousness of any potential opposition.

There was a very adverse reaction to the Swine flu vaccine. I don’t see that much happened as a result to stop the same scams being perpetuated over and again.

203952 Bill Hickling, replying to Bill Hickling, 42, #208 of 1673 🔗

Is there anyone more patronising than Dr Sarah Jarvis who is inflicted upon us with her “mummy knows best” rictus grin every flaming day on Jeremy Vine?

203959 ▶▶ Tim, replying to Bill Hickling, 15, #209 of 1673 🔗

The simple answer is …. no. Always have a sick bag at the ready.

204046 ▶▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to Tim, 15, #210 of 1673 🔗

Sick bag may help with the mess but the off button is the cure.

204005 ▶▶ thinkaboutit, replying to Bill Hickling, 20, #211 of 1673 🔗

I can’t stand any of the tv doctors and I think Dr Scary Jarvis is a twerp. As I don’t have a t v licence the only time I’m exposed to her drivel is in the dentist’s waiting room. A rare occurrence, thankfully.

204092 ▶▶ Tee Ell, replying to Bill Hickling, 13, #212 of 1673 🔗

That was my first thought. The presenters too – trying to baby people who have a far firmer grasp on what’s going on than them.

204161 ▶▶ Pancho the Grey, replying to Bill Hickling, 16, #213 of 1673 🔗

The presenter said – “Now let us hear from a scientist”. I imagine my shock when Jarvis appeared.

204163 ▶▶ Nicky, replying to Bill Hickling, 16, #214 of 1673 🔗

Agree. Have just watched that clip and been shouting at the video at how patronising both she and the presenters were towards the couple. Let them stay inside with full masks and hasmat suits on if they want, but, as Maureen and her husband say, let people get on with their lives. So what if the NHS hospitals become full – why can’t GP’s treat people at home like they used to???? Would be safer than going into hospital.

204574 ▶▶▶ rose, replying to Nicky, 14, #215 of 1673 🔗

Yes Dr Sarah Jarvis and also the two presenters were doing their best to make Maureen and her husband look stupid. I can only say that it backfired. Jarvis shaking her head and telling Maureen’s husband that he’s never lived through an epidemic like this!! Yes he has!!The only difference this time is the media propaganda forced down our throats, scaremongering with their exaggerated figures of ‘case’s deaths and wild predictions. When told by the slimey Jarvis that it was all to do with keeping the NHS from being overwhelmed, I wish Maureen had chance to repeat what she said in her first interview on the street, which was….there won’t be any money to pay for an NHS if we keep these silly measure.

204169 ▶▶ Pancho the Grey, replying to Bill Hickling, 15, #216 of 1673 🔗

I loved the bit when the husband contradicted the presenters when they asked about the character of his wife, and I must admit his reply brought a tear to my eye.

204597 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to Bill Hickling, 1, #217 of 1673 🔗


203954 Tim, replying to Tim, 15, #218 of 1673 🔗

What can we do?

I’m as frustrated and angry as anyone over the continued restrictions, but I feel powerless to do anything about it. I have written to my (Phillip Davies) MP twice, but he’s one of the rebels anyway, so I’m pushing at an open door.

Is there an anti-lockdown movement that is actively promoting our cause, persuading the public to rebel and getting in the face of our politicians and so-called journalists?

Lockdown Sceptics has been an oasis of sanity, but I’m looking for an organisation with a more pro-active agenda.

Any suggestions?

203989 ▶▶ Marialta, replying to Tim, 9, #219 of 1673 🔗

Join your local Keep Britain Free group. Im in the Sussex one and we have an activity planned for next Saturday, walking through Eastbourne centre unmasked with music it was done in Berlin recently. The last activity went well too handing out leaflets and chatting to shoppers in a big group

203998 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Tim, 17, #220 of 1673 🔗

Try to persuade family, friends, neighbours and colleagues

Go maskless

Boycott anywhere that is overzealous in enforcing the nonsense, and tell them why you are doing it

Push back and question nonsense rules from schools, work, or whatever organisations you are involved with

Post information and comments on social media

Sign petitions

Crowdfund good causes

Attend demos

Support political parties and other groups that are sceptical (SDP, Heritage, Reclaim, UKIP, KBF)

Stay sane and healthy

204144 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Julian, 7, #221 of 1673 🔗

Use cash ! Only cash !

Boycott places that don’t accept cash (if possible).

204237 ▶▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to JohnB, 7, #222 of 1673 🔗

In Ludlow there is a bakery and cake shop that only accepts cash and refuses card payments

204975 ▶▶▶▶▶ OpenWindowsOpenPubsOpenShopsOpenBorders, replying to Fingerache Philip., 1, #223 of 1673 🔗

I love it when a whingeing coronaphobe with a card walks in to this kind of shop and gets told his only way to pay is with those wonderful notes and coins he fears so much. Have seen it several times, even more fun when the shop normally takes both shitty card and civilised cash, but today the card machine has failed.

204978 ▶▶▶▶ OpenWindowsOpenPubsOpenShopsOpenBorders, replying to JohnB, 2, #224 of 1673 🔗

Boycott them full stop, never mind if possible. If they won’t take cash and you’ve no choice but to use them, force exact change in to their hand and walk out with your rightfully purchased goods. Coins and notes are legal tender.

204167 ▶▶ Nicky, replying to Tim, 2, #225 of 1673 🔗

I’m with you on this one. Really need to find a way of actively taking power and control back to the people.

204178 ▶▶ Pancho the Grey, replying to Tim, 6, #226 of 1673 🔗

I regularly thank my local MP for her stance voting against the worst from this government, and on occasion have had personal response from her, including a phone call one night just before the last election.
I know Esther is on the same side as me.

204252 ▶▶ Cranmer, replying to Tim, 5, #227 of 1673 🔗
  • Sign the Great Barrington Declaration.
  • Sign the petition to repeal the Coronavirus Act 2020.
  • Support Simon Dolan’s legal challenge against HM Government.
  • Support Mark Devlin’s treason case against MPs.
  • Write to your MP – summarise your argument in one line in the subject line so that even if your email is deleted without being read, somebody will see your opinion.
  • Write to any establishments you normally patronise (pubs, restaurants, churches, etc) telling that you will not attend or support them because of the government’s restrictions (obviously be polite and sympathetic that it is not their fault)
  • Join the anti-Lockdown protests in London or locally.
204725 ▶▶ wat tyler, replying to Tim, 1, #228 of 1673 🔗

Make posters ,stickers ,there’s some templates in the forum under posters /tee shirts . As someone said find a local group ,think there’s also contacts for different areas in the forum or just get a couple of mates to work with i’m sure you can come up with ideas .Good luck

205280 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Tim, #229 of 1673 🔗

Save Our Rights UK does some good pro-active work.

StandupX has regular local meetings in some areas, though their agenda can be mixed.

206343 ▶▶ H K, replying to Tim, #230 of 1673 🔗

There tends to be anti-lockdown rallies every weekend.
There was a large one in central london yesterday.
Another big one is planned on the 28th Nov.
Check out:
‘save our rights’

203955 A. Contrarian, replying to A. Contrarian, 15, #231 of 1673 🔗

FFS the Guardian offices need to be burned to the ground! The vaccine will be next to useless, so we’ll have to stay locked up forever guys. There’s literally no alternative, so don’t argue. Have a great Saturday!

Other than that, however, I do feel strangely positive today. Some fight back in Wales, the focus groups reflecting my experience when speaking to most people, and even the murmurings of govt scientists about herd immunity in London “despite” only 13% antibodies.

Although Sturgeon sounds as psychotic as ever, unfortunately.

204065 ▶▶ Jakehadlee, replying to A. Contrarian, 4, #232 of 1673 🔗

They will shortly be bankrupt so no need for the petrol and matches just yet

204077 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Jakehadlee, 5, #233 of 1673 🔗

I’m sure Bill Gates can find some spare change for them after all their good work

204380 ▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 4, #234 of 1673 🔗

Gates is rich, but he is not a state. He has no authority, only influence. He has no power, he cannot raise an army.

I’m not a fan of Gates, but this obsession you have with him deflects attention away from the people who are truly in control. Sovereign governments.

204986 ▶▶▶▶▶ OpenWindowsOpenPubsOpenShopsOpenBorders, replying to John P, 1, #235 of 1673 🔗

Agreed, shit as his operating systems are even windows 10 and the GWX.exe virus haven’t done as much harm to the world as government intrusion against liberties.

207241 ▶▶▶▶▶ Binra, replying to John P, #236 of 1673 🔗

Gates is a part of a much larger network of influence but his organisation is in a PPP with facets of the British Government – as with BBC as with so much else.

Gates is used as a person of influence or key opinion leader and so becomes a personal focus for faceless networks of fronted organisations.
Melinda seems like his handler?

The overall effect is in the disproportionate distribution of wealth being used as a similarly overwhelming leverage or corruption.

If Mark Carney can openly state that business not complying in Green New deal with go bankrupt (lose access to credit), then lockstepped corporates may be under threats or privy to sweeteners that are protected by non disclosure ‘agreements’.

‘Why buy tank divisions, weapons and fighter aircraft, when you can buy congressmen?

Where IS authority in our times?
Is it in our politicians, their handlers? The lobbies that they are representing? The World banking system – open and hidden?

The ability to choke back life support is a means of control. Who is upstream? And what or who can you not openly challenge without losing reputation and career.

Is there power IN the world?
or is it all fear driven control seeking power?

204256 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Jakehadlee, #237 of 1673 🔗

Not just the Welsh.

205283 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Jakehadlee, #238 of 1673 🔗

Happy thought!

204215 ▶▶ Rowan, replying to A. Contrarian, #239 of 1673 🔗

The vaccines will do what they are intended to do. That’s the problem which is hurtling towards us.

204376 ▶▶▶ John P, replying to Rowan, #240 of 1673 🔗

“The vaccines will do what they are intended to do.”

And what is that Rowan, in your opinion? (Serious question).

207260 ▶▶▶▶ Binra, replying to John P, #241 of 1673 🔗

Establish medical dependency for sickness management at ever tighter controls. Degrade immunity while fight the war against ‘whatever’. Degrade consciousness, and continue the experimental hacking of the human (and other) genetic coding for innovative advances that can be weaponised and marketised. Degrade ability to procreate.

The use of stealth can let fear work what the weapons do not need to actually effect. Covid is such an example. Using our minds against us such that we effectively destroy ourselves, and set up the imperatives for protection and control.

Vaccines keep virus fear fed and funded, while seeming to protect. But consider the actual ‘threat’ of covid (from the perspective of anyone who has researched outside the BBC & Guardian et al), and the stated admissions that the new cov vaccines are not expected to stop infection but only minimise or mitigate symptoms (?). If you are not hypnotised you will not follow the directives. Yet if you are they will seem to make sense.

Vaccines offer a trojan means to insert materials or agents that would otherwise not gain access, and this is necessarily true of incidental contaminants, and innately true of toxic adjuvants, preservatives, and possibly unexpected or unintended consequences.
If the vaccine drive is FOR public health and wants public trust – bring ALL OF IT into the open as transparent and accountable science. Take away immunity for adverse reactions, and make risks and benefits freely available.
What chance of that?
Note vaccines are not just a specific drive for a specific outcome, and need to be properly evaluated in terms of all outcomes of disease and death. Blocking one statistic to spill over into other datasets can be sold as progress, but it is another form of concealed toxic debt – within an uncorrected and corrupt system.

204993 ▶▶▶ OpenWindowsOpenPubsOpenShopsOpenBorders, replying to Rowan, #242 of 1673 🔗

This is more right than most will realise, the intended condition to call the vacine a success is “prevents cold like symptoms in majority of those given it”, nothing about stopping transmission, nothing about reducing chance of serious symptoms (not common enough for a medical trial to reliably find enough in the control group to say a vacine has stopped them), nothing about reducing hospitalisations. The vaccine, if it meets the required conditions, will simply prevent mild symptoms in people who don’t need protecting. This vaccine isn’t a cure because covid has long been not a medical problem but a societal one the cure is to stop fearing the slly cough and seize back individual rights.

204241 ▶▶ Cranmer, replying to A. Contrarian, 4, #243 of 1673 🔗

I think Wales is going to be a bit of a game changer. Johnson might regret trying to delegate responsibility for this mess to a bunch of glorified parish councillors.

204253 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Cranmer, 8, #244 of 1673 🔗

You actually think Johnson is any better than than those “glorified parish councillors”? Johnson is totally responsible for the huge hole in which all of the UK now finds itself.

204369 ▶▶▶▶ Cranmer, replying to Rowan, 1, #245 of 1673 🔗

No, I actually think Johnson is more culpable, because of his academic background he should understand the importance of liberal governance and the common law. And I believe he is trying to escape responsibility by delegating lockdown rulings to the Principality and regions.

204373 ▶▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to Cranmer, 5, #246 of 1673 🔗

Johnson is Prime Minister. He is 100% culpable.

204714 ▶▶▶▶ Adam, replying to Rowan, 4, #247 of 1673 🔗

Johnson is a idiot joke chancer a liar utterly unfit for office and must be removed ASAP

207264 ▶▶▶▶▶ Binra, replying to Adam, #248 of 1673 🔗

I see him more as a crisis actor who has been long groomed for his role in the script.

205003 ▶▶▶ OpenWindowsOpenPubsOpenShopsOpenBorders, replying to Adam, 2, #250 of 1673 🔗

Dead link. Trouble is half the anti-Boris campaigns and votes of no-confidence are from the lockdown zealots’ side. Much as we all hate this government, we have to hate the ultra-zealots even more. I support anyone who is against this government AND intends to replace them with a herd immunity and civil lberties respecting administration.

203956 Caroline Watson, replying to Caroline Watson, 89, #251 of 1673 🔗

I can’t believe that a young woman television interviews is asking a man in his 80s whether he finds his wife ‘difficult to bring under control’. Where are we; Gilead?!
His emotional, loyal reply made me quite tearful and I love their no nonsense, Yorkshire faces. The Yorkshire face arranges itself in a certain way because the muscles that display extreme reactions are never used. Have no doubt, though; those two people are very, very angry!

203979 ▶▶ KBuchanan, replying to Caroline Watson, 42, #252 of 1673 🔗

Love the look on the presenters face though when he had the temerity to call her out on it.

204184 ▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to KBuchanan, 12, #253 of 1673 🔗

Yes, They don’t like it up em” do they?

203985 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Caroline Watson, 71, #254 of 1673 🔗

My dad was told off by a bus driver for sitting next to my mum, his reply.

‘I have been sleeping in the same bed as this woman for over 50 years, I think I’ll know if she is sick! Nobody tells me where to sit, now drive the bus!’

203997 ▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to stefarm, 15, #255 of 1673 🔗

I swear if anyone tried to separate us theyd be trouble. 😠

204150 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to stefarm, 9, #256 of 1673 🔗


(Had it been me, the F-word might have made an appearance too.).

204029 ▶▶ David Grimbleby, replying to Caroline Watson, 30, #257 of 1673 🔗

They are so bloody patronising, and that Jarvis.. aaargh!

204929 ▶▶▶ Riffman, replying to David Grimbleby, 8, #258 of 1673 🔗

Jarvis is a condescending bitch. So disrespectful to a proud and honest member of the public.

207267 ▶▶▶ Binra, replying to David Grimbleby, #259 of 1673 🔗

Virtue signalling parodies itself.

204032 ▶▶ Stop paying your TV licence, replying to Caroline Watson, 38, #260 of 1673 🔗

The tone of how the presenters introduce and then conduct that interview is infuriating. The presenters happy smiles and jovial mood, like this is a funny, amusing puff piece. Christ I despise them all. Well done to Maureen and her husband for portraying how people actually feel.

204236 ▶▶▶ Cranmer, replying to Stop paying your TV licence, 11, #261 of 1673 🔗

Yes. Just imagine how they would have treated someone like Rosa Parks 70 years ago.

204148 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Caroline Watson, 3, #262 of 1673 🔗

I find it quite impossible to bring my wife under control. 🙂

204860 ▶▶▶ Chris John, replying to JohnB, 1, #263 of 1673 🔗

But it’s so fun trying! I mean my wife btw!

205400 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Chris John, #264 of 1673 🔗

“Take my wife …”.

204180 ▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to Caroline Watson, 5, #265 of 1673 🔗

Yes, as my teenage granddaughters would say: Inappropriate!

203957 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 9, #266 of 1673 🔗

Interesting to compare Belgium and US. They are both mass testing like mad. Today on BBC 80000 new cases in the US got the headlines. But what about Belgium? Today 18000 cases. With a population of 11 million and US 30 times more population the Belgian figures would be equivalent to more than half million cases in the US today.
It is clear that the seasonal wave in Europe is much worse than in the US. Belgium had a much stricter spring lockdown than UK. After that the usual mask mandate and in the new wave, the phoney ridiculous almost puritanical  restrictions of bars, restaurant and curfews but not an April type of lockdown. The test and track system has of course collapsed.
 Even with a low estimate that the true infections are 5 times more than detected cases,85000 infected today. That is almost 1 % of the population infected in one day. MSM will shout about a raging infection and the government must act. To do what? Everything they have tried so far has dismally failed in all aspects incl.masks. Why? Because this is a new respiratory virus which by definition cannot be controlled. Start propping up your hospitals, tell symptomatic to stay home pay sick leave and end all SD, quarantine, travel restrictions. They are even more meaningless now.

203995 ▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to swedenborg, 4, #267 of 1673 🔗

I don’t think it is clear. How many cycles are being used? How are those to be tested being selected? How are the procedures being used to perform these tests being regulated and how is the accuracy of the labs being monitored?

204101 ▶▶▶ swedenborg, replying to Saved To Death, 2, #268 of 1673 🔗

Yes,of course an overestimation but there are true cases and they have 14times more C-19 in their ICUs than Sweden. There is an increase in true cases but the mass testing distort the picture and increase hysteria.

204311 ▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to swedenborg, 4, #269 of 1673 🔗

Exactly. I think Yeadon has explained it best. The pandemic in London is virtually over already.

204312 ▶▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to OKUK, 3, #270 of 1673 🔗

No just in London.

204787 ▶▶▶▶▶ wat tyler, replying to OKUK, 3, #271 of 1673 🔗

The strangest think about it all is Cornwall has had over 2 million visitors since this started and it has the lowest cases and deaths . Not only that but people have come from every part of Britain and abroad so how do we account for it ? .One theory could be that the south west in fact had it first and then it spread to the south east.Maybe a flight from spain to newquay or a plane into exeter airport . The other option is there is only one main hospital in Truro and if it don’t for some reason get in there then it doesn’t really spread ,it would be interesting to find out if any patients were decanted from there to care homes . I believe it could be combination of the two as i know many people in the south west of cornwall and they all claim to have had bad flu in November ,December time .I’m surprised more medical people haven’t looked into it .

204878 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ chris c, replying to wat tyler, 2, #272 of 1673 🔗

Same In Suffolk. It may be there was a different virus with identical symptoms doing the rounds prior to covid but Mr Occam may have something to say about that.

Spain and I think other countries claim to have identified Covid in sewage samples, in one case March 2019 but of course they may have been false positives. Nevertheless something that could be investgated but probably won’t be

204267 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Saved To Death, 2, #273 of 1673 🔗

The tests are meaningless, no matter the number of cycles used.

204271 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to swedenborg, 6, #274 of 1673 🔗

Our media have been very schtum about Belgium all along. At the heart of the EU, being led by a female PM (back in the Spring), early and strict lockdown – and yet had the worst death rate in the world, until overtaken by Peru. Didn’t fit the narrative!

204705 ▶▶▶ TT, replying to OKUK, 2, #275 of 1673 🔗

And since October 1st we are led by a new government headed by the enttled son of one of the most long-serving ministers in several previous governments (De Croo), and a Minister of Health and Social Services (Mr Vandenbroucke) who was recycled from the refuse of former 90s-era governments. The MSM always praised him as being ‘highly intelligent’ because he studied at Cambridge and Oxford (economy/social sciences). As chairman of the socialist democrats back when the party was racked by corruption scandals in the early 90s (mainly payments by the Italian arms manufacturer Agusta in return for being awarded a large contract for the sale of helicopters to the Belgian state); Vandenbroucke’s main claim to fame is that he allegedly discovered this dirty money in a special safe at party HQ and set fire to it, as he ‘didn’t know what else to do’… the subsequent discussion in the press centered mainly on the issue that burning money is illegal under criminal law, and whether or not he should face trial for that (no mention of criminal stupidity, which in my opinion is far worse for someone who was set to become minister of FA…) !
So now he’s back, wearing a white underwear-style face nappy at every possible occasion and putting in alarmist, grave-faced (as far as you can tell under the circumstances) public appearances to argue for ‘stricter measures’ and all the kind of hypocritical, smarmy bs one can expect from a relic whose due date was long past already at the end of the previous century…

203961 Catherine Kenny, replying to Catherine Kenny, 69, #276 of 1673 🔗

How patronising was that Sarah Jarvis?! So rude. What a poisonous, wooden faced witch she is. Mr and Mrs Eames should have been given more air time, and more respect during that interview.

203982 ▶▶ Emily Tock, replying to Catherine Kenny, 47, #277 of 1673 🔗

I am not a violent person, but I wanted to slap that doctor for her condescension. The epitome of a Karen, she is. And she was lying about the severity of the disease, to boot.

204003 ▶▶▶ KBuchanan, replying to Emily Tock, 9, #278 of 1673 🔗

No from a Karen who is sceptic with knobs on. Just stop this meme ( imported from the US where Karen is the soccer mom) to here to denigrate usually white working class woman as an insult. Dear middle class Emily! See tedious is it not?

204156 ▶▶▶▶ Emily Tock, replying to KBuchanan, 4, #279 of 1673 🔗

It’s not working class women that it is denigrating; it’s rich and/or upper middle class women.

204164 ▶▶▶▶ Emily Tock, replying to KBuchanan, 5, #280 of 1673 🔗

And I don’t care about names being expanded into memes – I’ve lived with being linked to close-minded ‘Auntie Em’ all my life. Water off a duck’s back.

204020 ▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to Catherine Kenny, 50, #281 of 1673 🔗

Absolutely, what a patronising cow,
I am a fair bit younger than Mr Eames (71) but I remember the Asian flu of the mid and late 1950’s and the Hong
kong flu of 1968 plus Measles,Diphtheria and Typhoid outbreaks and as Mr Eames said: this virus will end the same as the previous ones and the ones that will come in the future with herd immunity.
How dare this patronising woman along with her many cohorts speak down to people like that.

204274 ▶▶ leggy, replying to Catherine Kenny, 25, #282 of 1673 🔗

The “you’d have to be 101 to remember something like this…” was just a bare faced lie. I’m glad he called her out on it.

207270 ▶▶▶ Binra, replying to leggy, #283 of 1673 🔗

Do you think the covid cultists believe their own spin?
I wonder if they have to act it out as IF they really believed it, because otherwise their face would break and the masking fall away.

203962 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 3, #284 of 1673 🔗

Scott Gottlieb,the former FDA director is one of the worst in Project Fear. Now the “golden” article has been published behind Fauci/CDC Director’s enthusiasm for masks and solution to the pandemic. This is not a published RCT trial but a modelling based upon assumptions. I think we have heard of such models before.
“When people wear masks, it reduces likelihood of spreading Covid if they’re an asymptomatic or pre-symptomatic carrier. A new Nature study finds if 85% of Americans wore masks, we would save 95,000 people. Greater adherence to masking will reduce spread.”
The published article is the typical modelling and observational study. I haven’t read it but I think this twitter thread from someone in the know taking down the article,is enough.

204349 ▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to swedenborg, 4, #285 of 1673 🔗

‘Mask up our seniors’ (one of the comments). Not this senior, pal!! MW

204685 ▶▶ Rowan, replying to swedenborg, 2, #286 of 1673 🔗

Masks in general settings don’t limit the transmission of influenza and neither does hand washing. Why are we now supposed to believe that these same measures will work for the flu like Covid-19.

The link below takes you to a scientific policy review in the CDC journal, Emerging Infectious Diseases from May 2020. The abstract says it all, but scrolling down to the “Discussion” section is also worthwhile. Note also that the review is based on the results of 14 randomised control trials. I’m still surprised that this document has not been taken down, so I have saved a copy.


203965 A. Contrarian, replying to A. Contrarian, 4, #287 of 1673 🔗

That Lancet study… I thought R, modelled as it is, automatically increases as each section of society reopens regardless of what’s actually happening in the real world, because it’s programmed into the model. So how is that proof?

203993 ▶▶ Old Normal, replying to A. Contrarian, 6, #288 of 1673 🔗

A lot of scientists I’ve heard talking about the R number say it’s a completely useless measurement. That’s why governments are obsessed with it.

204042 ▶▶ peyrole, replying to A. Contrarian, 1, #289 of 1673 🔗

Computer models again. Correlation is not causation.
The similarities of how models are used to create fear with covid and climate change are not accidental.
By the way the latest junk modelling ‘explains’ how the genetic make up explains why populations in different countries have reacted to SARS2. The more neathanderthal genes the worse the reaction, supposed to explain why far eastern nations have generally done better, because they have hardly any of these genes. Load of crap of course.

204306 ▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to peyrole, 1, #290 of 1673 🔗

Studying the relationship between genetics and Covid has nothing to do with “modelling”, at least, not the sort under discussion here. The paper The major genetic risk factor for severe COVID-19 is inherited from Neanderthals says

the risk is conferred by a genomic segment of around 50 kilobases in size that is inherited from Neanderthals and is carried by around 50% of people in south Asia and around 16% of people in Europe.

207273 ▶▶▶▶ Binra, replying to Richard Pinch, #291 of 1673 🔗

Oh – along with compromised or dysfunctional immune system, severe co morbidities, and being over 80.

Genetic control is the basis of the 4th reich Industrial revolution.

204054 ▶▶ Achilles, replying to A. Contrarian, 4, #292 of 1673 🔗

Why do you think they used the R rate and not deaths? One is a mathematical construct and the other is a measurable fact (although the atrribution of the death to Covid is not).

203968 Steve Hayes, replying to Steve Hayes, 16, #293 of 1673 🔗

Lack of exercise is the biggest public health problem. The coronavirus is insignificant in comparison. The decision to close gyms is just another example of the irrational, irresponsible, incompetent approach to policy-making that has been adopted since March. It simply is not credible that policy-makers and their scientific and medical advisors are this incompetent. Since March they have consistently adopted measures to allegedly combat a virus that they must know are more harmful than the virus ever could be.

204217 ▶▶ Cranmer, replying to Steve Hayes, 10, #294 of 1673 🔗

The numbers of fat or even obese nurses seems to be increasing on a higher exponential curve than the Covid ever did. Quite how they have the nerve to lecture anyone on healthy living is beyond me.

205299 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to chris c, #296 of 1673 🔗

Yes. Doctors such as Tim Noakes, Gary Fettke, Shawn Baker and Ken Berry who prescribe healthy diets (ie the opposite of government prescribed ones) to their patients end up facing lengthy court cases for daring to go against establishment dogma.

205022 ▶▶▶ OpenWindowsOpenPubsOpenShopsOpenBorders, replying to Cranmer, 1, #297 of 1673 🔗

The likes of the WHO go on about hippocratic oaths forbidding them from pursuing herd immunity, that is nonesense. However hippocratic oaths definitely have something to say about docotrs needing to take good care of their own health before they can preach to others, obese medics are a violation of the oath.

205122 ▶▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to OpenWindowsOpenPubsOpenShopsOpenBorders, 1, #298 of 1673 🔗

So Tedros, a biologist, took the Hippocratic Oath? I doubt it! When I get a mo’ I’ll look up how many of that shower are doctors. SAGE has got very few ‘proper’ doctors on it. MW

203970 stefarm, replying to stefarm, 19, #299 of 1673 🔗

Sorry, that picture on the home page. Surely people aren’t exercising in a gym wearing a gimp mask. Insane x 100. Personal trainers must know it’s dangerous.

204080 ▶▶ mhcp, replying to stefarm, 2, #300 of 1673 🔗

There was a recent trend in wearing Bane masks for oxygen deprivation training. A bit like altitude training. Short bursts to increase blood flow.

Most people thought it was bad bro science.

204179 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to mhcp, 1, #301 of 1673 🔗

Anaerobic rather than aerobic, yes ? I’ve heard of that re muscle groups, not the entire breathing system though

204418 ▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to stefarm, 7, #302 of 1673 🔗

Our daughter who is struggling, having been put into Stalagluft 3 from today, says she’s keeping away from news and information because it’s so depressing. She has a tough job working in housing and she seems to be getting more demoralised and demotivated by the day, mostly working from home. Apparently food banks in Sheffield are closing because they can’t operate under the restrictions. God help them.

A couple of months ago she said she didn’t want to live in an echo chamber but that’s exactly where she is, unfortunately (FB, Instagram and MSM – it emerged she does watch the TV a bit). When we spoke to her last night, the first thing she told us was ‘so-and-so has got coronavirus’. When we challenged her, she admitted that it meant that they had got a positive test with no symptoms. None of our grandson’s friends are available to play with him over half term because their parents are keeping them away from other children – they are in the same class, ffs.

We urged her to keep herself informed. She doesn’t believe it can be about money and control: ‘how can they be making money out of this?’ (yikes!) so, yet again, we had to take her through what the Great Reset could mean, the great wealth transfer, this is not about a virus, etc. A week or so ago we sent her some short funnies and a link to the South Park video. She hasn’t watched them, presumably scared that even lightweight scepticism might burst her bubble.

Someone she knows got contacted via the T&T app. When we expressed less than sympathy she got defensive ‘They can’t work now why aren’t you sympathetic?’ and we had to explain that anyone who gets the app is asking for this to happen. She then agreed and told us that she wouldn’t be downloading it. Phew!

Meanwhile in other, better news: her ‘dandelion’ of a partner has managed to keep his yoga classes going, even in ‘Tier 3’ and has somehow wangled from the management an exemption for all of them not to wear masks during the class.

So not hopeless, but my God she was hard work. We think it’s much more about demoralisation than Covhysteria. We’re going to meet up with her and grandson in the country next week for a walk so we may be able to bolster up her courage a bit. MW

204737 ▶▶▶ Rosie, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 2, #303 of 1673 🔗

Suggestion, rather than the reset talk about the personal protection kit, and who is making money out of that. If she can absorb that then the next step up would be vaccinations and who makes money out of that.
When we learn, new stuff has to have a connection to existing stuff, a physical connection in the nervous system, represented by factual or emotional connection to pre-existing world view.

205037 ▶▶▶▶ OpenWindowsOpenPubsOpenShopsOpenBorders, replying to Rosie, 3, #304 of 1673 🔗

I wouldn’t bother discussing PPE profits either, I’d just focus on the harmlessness of the virus and how Sweden have done so well, plus point her towards some of Sunetra Gupta’s articles about what an idiot Hancock has been. Independently of educating her about the virus situation, make sure she is aware of the horrors the Chinese government is perpetrating against the Uighurs, and their social credit system, and absue of HongKong. Then at a later time she won’t be so suprised when you point to the risk that if we don’t properly defy coronapanic measures that Chinese system could be installed over here, even if accidentally*.

*why let her discount you as a conspiracy theorist when you can point to the same key facts and remedial individual actions by pointing out chaos and cockups as a cause

205117 ▶▶▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to OpenWindowsOpenPubsOpenShopsOpenBorders, 2, #305 of 1673 🔗

Honestly, we’ve done all that and she’s reasonably politically astute. She doesn’t think we’re conspiracy theorists either. It’s just that she wants to put her fingers in her ears and go ‘la-la-la’ until it all goes away. We’re just trying to get her to be a bit more clear-sighted about what’s at stake. She has a son and a step-daughter after all. MW

205069 ▶▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Rosie, 2, #306 of 1673 🔗

Thanks, Rosie. In fact we explained in some detail how the money is being made including PPE vaccines, testing, fire-sale of businesses,etc. The problem is that whenever we talk to her, she gets stronger and seems to get it but then she retreats to her echo-chamber and next time we talk it’s like starting from scratch. We’ll keep trying! MW

203974 Lucan Grey, replying to Lucan Grey, 10, #307 of 1673 🔗

Why is Doomer-in-chief Ferguson being given air time again?

Has he been waving his magic juju stick at somebody?

204059 ▶▶ Achilles, replying to Lucan Grey, 6, #308 of 1673 🔗

Has he come on to say that his models are projections based on a number of estimates and assumptions and should therefore be treated with extreme caution when forming the basis of harmful social policy? No didn’t think so.

204066 ▶▶ DRW, replying to Lucan Grey, 2, #309 of 1673 🔗

Sponsorship requirement probably.

204659 ▶▶▶ Sylvie, replying to DRW, 1, #310 of 1673 🔗

Reportedly saying it will all become clearer in two weeks time. Where have I heard that before.

205393 ▶▶▶▶ fosterc, replying to Sylvie, #311 of 1673 🔗

It’s because ‘two weeks’ is close enough to appear attainable but long enough away for you to forget the predication. It’s one of the oldest political tricks in the book. If you need to make it slighly more urgent you use ‘ten days’ instead.

204720 ▶▶ Adam, replying to Lucan Grey, 1, #312 of 1673 🔗

Ferguson, Witty and vallance need to be barred from practicing and Johnson and Hancock need throwing out of office

207277 ▶▶ Binra, replying to Lucan Grey, #313 of 1673 🔗

Mouth of Sauron?

203978 James Leary #KBF, replying to James Leary #KBF, 35, #314 of 1673 🔗

Report from Khanistan during Stage 2 (or something). Out to dinner at Ivy, Tower Bridge last night. Just as busy as last time with single-household tables containing strange single-household personnel. Masks on movement (except the JL two). However – all along the riverside were a whole series of ad hoc ‘parties’ & drinking picnics with twenty-somethings – mostly maskless sticking two fingers up to the mad Mufti and his plodforce, none of whom were in attendance. The young have just nudged up a notch in my estimation.

204011 ▶▶ KBuchanan, replying to James Leary #KBF, 18, #315 of 1673 🔗

The young are having the best times of their life stolen from them by our government.

204181 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to KBuchanan, 8, #316 of 1673 🔗

Only if they obey it. As always.

204214 ▶▶ Cranmer, replying to James Leary #KBF, 13, #317 of 1673 🔗

Excellent news. I have not been to the Emirate of London for some time, since my club announced masks would now have to be worn throughout the premises. They don’t even allow newpapers in the club library now, as they could, apparently, spread the dreaded Covids. I’m tempted next time I’m up to just hang out with some youngsters (though at nearly 50 that might result in me appearing a bit like Joe Biden).

203991 Simon Dutton, replying to Simon Dutton, 20, #318 of 1673 🔗

I’m told by Tobias Ellwood MP that I will need to be vaccinated before I can return to normal life

I’m told by Lieutenant-Colonel Tobias Ellwood of the 77th Brigade (the propaganda arm of the British Army that is waging psychological warfare against the British people) that I will need to be vaccinated before I can return to normal life

Fixed it for him.

204890 ▶▶ chris c, replying to Simon Dutton, 1, #319 of 1673 🔗

Originally The Vaccine was supposedly going to be the end of this but actually I suspect it will be the beginning of something else worse.

204004 calchas, replying to calchas, 11, #320 of 1673 🔗

Anybody who uses any establishment that implements anti-social distancing or masking rules is implicitly validating those rules (even if you say you are exempt from masks) and helping to cement them in place, whether that place be a cafe or gym or public transport or whatever.

204118 ▶▶ Tee Ell, replying to calchas, #321 of 1673 🔗

How do you get food?

204325 ▶▶▶ HelzBelz, replying to Tee Ell, 2, #322 of 1673 🔗

Refuse to wear a mask or shop on line

204439 ▶▶▶▶ Tee Ell, replying to HelzBelz, 4, #323 of 1673 🔗

I refuse to wear a mask, but calchas said “ even if you say you are exempt from masks”.

Shopping online doesn’t feel like the ideal solution if my concern is for local independent businesses. When the distancing or mask diktats are lifted, there’ll hardly be any point if online shopping is the only remaining option and all the restaurants/clubs/pubs have gone under.

204544 ▶▶▶▶▶ HelzBelz, replying to Tee Ell, 2, #324 of 1673 🔗

LOL good point – I was thinking more optional venues, pubs and restaurants, the hairdressers etc.

205307 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to HelzBelz, 1, #325 of 1673 🔗

Online shopping plays straight into their hands – especially as you can’t use cash.

Best to go maskless in defiance – while there’s somewhere to go!

204324 ▶▶ HelzBelz, replying to calchas, 1, #326 of 1673 🔗

100% agree. Never go out any more!

204630 ▶▶ stewart, replying to calchas, #327 of 1673 🔗

Agree for the simple reason that the only way out of this madness is total economic collapse. So I’ve reduced my consumption to the bear minimum – not a problem given how horrible it is to a restaurant, pub or shop.

If everyone did the same, the whole thing would end quite quickly.

204015 Mr Dee, 21, #328 of 1673 🔗

I was in Liverpool the other day, walking along the Mersey, and I spotted a small card attached to a lifebuoy by the water’s edge.

The message on it was simple:

“Ask, and it will be given you. Seek, and you will
find. Knock, and it will be opened for you.
For everyone who asks receives. He who seeks
finds. To him who knocks it will be opened.”

Whether you’re religious, spiritual or not, I hope that this can be a message of hope and determination for all of you.

As my little daughter has started saying recently:

“When there’s a will, there’s a way.”

204017 Mr Dee, replying to Mr Dee, 7, #329 of 1673 🔗

Breaking news from Gulag Wales – My wife’s found some bubble wrap. Celebrations!

204026 ▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Mr Dee, 10, #330 of 1673 🔗

Try not to pop it all, it is too satisfying

204348 ▶▶ Girl down Under, replying to Mr Dee, 1, #331 of 1673 🔗

Well done!!

204021 Cecil B, replying to Cecil B, 22, #332 of 1673 🔗

‘Choose your lucky number
That much money could drag you under’

I’ve chosen my lucky number and its number 9

The mass detention without trial in Wales ends on 9th November

Meanwhile at the eastern end of the Mediterranean Cyprus has introduced new draconian rules. A curfew and masks to be worn outside. These rules also end on 9th November

How could two governments that are so far apart geographically come up with the same date for the end of the virus?

Perhaps for the first time they are actually following science

For those of you who have not listened I recommend the Delingpole/Yeadon podcast. It runs for two hours. Take the time to listen. Yeadon demolishes the covid bollocks with scientific fact. If you do nothing else this weekend listen to it

For example. There has never been a second wave of this type of virus. I’ll repeat that, the second wave is a myth. There could never be a second wave. Vallance knows that. The dictator knows that. It’s not a guess, it’s not a prediction. It is a scientific fact

Yeadon describes in detail the Gompertz curve of the first wave. He also describes how a virus like this sometimes has a secondary ripple, which is what we are seeing now

He describes the trajectory of the second ripple like a Tiger Moth trundling down the runway and barely missing the treetops at the end of the runway

The dictator and his scientists know all of this. This second ripple comprises mainly of false positive PCR tests and will soon peter out

Expect an announcement in 3 to 5 days that the numbers are declining as a result of the new measures,

So what are they up to?

They are constructing a fraudulent narrative and it runs like this

We acted quickly during the first wave and saved many lives
Because of reckless stupid people not obeying our rules the second wave arrived
We predicted the arrival of the second wave if people didn’t behave
We acted decisively to prevent the second wave and it worked
Through our actions we beat the virus
We saved you and we saved your Christmas

It is little more than a criminal conspiracy that has needlessly wasted countless lives, and destroyed the wealth of a nation

In their rush to lie and lie again they have sown the seeds of their own destruction

The adherents of the cult may swallow it, but one day if there is such a thing as justice they will stand in the dock and have to answer for their crimes

204076 ▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Cecil B, 4, #333 of 1673 🔗

9th November happens to be my birthday and also the date the Berlin Wall came down.

Other significant 9th November events in German history:

1918, f ollowing the collapse of Germany in World War I, the Weimar Republic of Germany is proclaimed.

1925, German NSDAP (Nazi party) forms Schutzstaffel (SS)

1938, Kristallnacht begins: pogrom against Jews in Germany and Austria – first large-scale physical act of anti-Jewish violence, begins

Quite a date.

204377 ▶▶▶ Edward, replying to Sarigan, 2, #334 of 1673 🔗

In British English rather than American, the 9th of November is 9/11. How significant is that? – not a lot.

204819 ▶▶ wat tyler, replying to Cecil B, 3, #335 of 1673 🔗

You missed out the best bit .He called Vallance a liar and at the end called on him to sue him .

204023 OKUK, replying to OKUK, 24, #336 of 1673 🔗

My optimism is rising. If Yeadon is right, the pandemic is already over on London and much of the South and soon will be elsewhere. While the government can produce a casedemic through mega-testing and can lie about pressure on ICUs, they can’t magically produce deaths to fit the pandemic narrative in the absence of excess respiratory deaths.

Sceptical pressure will grow. Eventually the dam will burst.

204035 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to OKUK, 9, #337 of 1673 🔗

Agree 100%

they can’t magically produce deaths to fit the pandemic narrative – they have been and can put covid on death certificates to keep it going

204147 ▶▶▶ Marialta, replying to stefarm, 8, #338 of 1673 🔗

Sage is the fundamental problem according to Yeadon. It won’t end until Sage says it has. He breaks down Vallance whom he knows well into shreds

204192 ▶▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to Marialta, 3, #339 of 1673 🔗

Yes, chilling isn’t it, it’s over when we say it is!

204632 ▶▶▶ stewart, replying to stefarm, 3, #340 of 1673 🔗

Oh but they can. That’s the beauty of PCR testing. We have traces of all sorts of viruses in our bodies. There will always be positive tests on which to pin deaths.

204039 ▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to OKUK, 6, #341 of 1673 🔗

They don’t need an excess of respiratory deaths as we saw at the beginning of the year any deaths can be labled covid. Young person dies of sudden heart attack, covid, hospital consultant dies of aortic dissection, covid, etc etc.

The withdraw of medical care, the media induced mental illness and the ever tightening lockdown may have caused many of the excess deaths we saw earlier in the year. I would not be surprised to see excess deaths spiral again this time.

204063 ▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Saved To Death, 3, #342 of 1673 🔗

But if deaths do remain around average for the time of year, and all anyone is ever dying of is covid, even the zombies will start to become suspicious surely?

204125 ▶▶▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to A. Contrarian, 12, #343 of 1673 🔗

So far as the reality and the narrative have diverged the zombies seem to have only become more committed. When I take my son to school I see more people wearing masks outside even in the rain then ever before. People I know who were almost on the edge of reason a few months ago now think I am an evil killer for not wearing a mask. I am selfish for preventing the school from forcing my child to wear a mask.

I am not religious, I am an engineer, essentially a man of science but I cant help feel that the best way to describe these people is that they are under some sort of daemonic possession. Zombies are less dangerous.

Still I guess we can hope so.

204195 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cranmer, replying to Saved To Death, 7, #344 of 1673 🔗

In my opinion it’s mass hysteria on a global scale. We haven’t seen anything like this in our lifetimes. The reaction to Princess Diana’s death was probably the nearest equivalent, but that was thousands of times smaller in comparison.

204394 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Edward, replying to Cranmer, 1, #345 of 1673 🔗

It’s certainly mass delusion, shading into mass hysteria. Because masks are the most visible reminders of the current situation, some people are developing a monomania which leads them to believe that covid would disappear if everyone wore masks, and conversely every case which appears is the fault of the non-wearers.

207283 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Binra, replying to Cranmer, #346 of 1673 🔗

It isn’t enough to invoke the label hysteria as if that answers anything.

Triggering deeper aspects of our collective psyche uncovers archetypal patterning or structuring within our consciousness. While what we took to be our world or ‘consciousness’ disintegrates.
With Diana – normality or continuity resumed after a few days or weeks.

The phrase, ‘the Beast rises from the Deep’, suggests to me the revealing of what lies beneath, the exposing and undoing of an unconsciousness to which we have been subconsciously identified in.

The rationalisations are NOT Reason as sanity, but the ingenious use of the mind in cover story seeking ‘narrative continuity’.

205054 ▶▶▶▶▶ OpenWindowsOpenPubsOpenShopsOpenBorders, replying to Saved To Death, 2, #347 of 1673 🔗

They are a medieval flagellant cult:
The Return of the Flagellants – AIER

204187 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to A. Contrarian, #348 of 1673 🔗

You’d think.

205050 ▶▶▶▶ OpenWindowsOpenPubsOpenShopsOpenBorders, replying to A. Contrarian, 1, #349 of 1673 🔗

The zombies are presently trying to argue that:
“yes I know hospitals are below the usual ICU usage, but they’re doing less surgery. ”
Would like to see some good stats to properly demolish their suggestions here

204121 ▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Saved To Death, 1, #350 of 1673 🔗

Not true. Yeadon fully accepts there was a pandemic in Spring. The vast majority of the huge number of excess deaths were from Covid19. But the pandemic is now largely over. There is not much happening on the respiratory disease front, so there is little scope for mislabelling deaths.

204172 ▶▶▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to OKUK, 5, #351 of 1673 🔗

Half of europe saw no excess deaths in spring. What are you looking at that conveniences you that “The vast majority of the huge number of excess deaths were from Covid19.” ?

204189 ▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Saved To Death, 2, #352 of 1673 🔗

Quite. ‘Huge number of excess deaths’ compared to what, exactly ?

204047 ▶▶ Basics, replying to OKUK, 7, #353 of 1673 🔗

It will grow it is inevitable.

The sewage story from yesterday looks set to replace the failed PCR narrative. Regional lockdowns based on what theu find at the sewage works.

Keep in mind why they are doing this random lockdown arbitrary theatre, to drag on until vaccines and ids. Be ready for their narrative to shift and catch the fight back off guard, to undermine people’s realisations of what has happened. It would be folly for the government side to let the matter rest at one stage they must keep heads spinning.

On our sude with that as it has been from the very start, ever mearsure they bring in produces newer better reasins to see their lies.

204900 ▶▶▶ chris c, replying to Basics, 1, #354 of 1673 🔗

“Regional lockdowns based on what they find at the sewage works.”

One place I lived had a sewage works down the lane. What you mostly found there was massive crops of tomatos and cannabis

204186 ▶▶ djaustin, replying to OKUK, -10, #355 of 1673 🔗

Hospital admissions are doubling in London , the South East and the South West at the same rate as every other region. All consistently with a doubling of 14 days. I am struggling to see any evidence of the immunity Yeadon is so fond of.

204198 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to djaustin, 10, #356 of 1673 🔗

Are they admitted to hospital with Covid or just being tested when they get there with a dodgy test.

204313 ▶▶▶▶ djaustin, replying to Jonathan Palmer, -4, #357 of 1673 🔗

The data is the total count of those admitted with a positive test and those who test positive within 24 hours of admission. In Wales the data is the count of those who test positive and those suspected of being positive based on clinical signs.

204250 ▶▶▶ Commander Jameson, replying to djaustin, 6, #358 of 1673 🔗

Is it inane comments like this that earned your OBE, for “services to the corona”?


Immunity exists to almost every virus known to medicine. Shame it isn’t understood by mathematical modellers at Imperial.

204262 ▶▶▶▶ djaustin, replying to Commander Jameson, -3, #359 of 1673 🔗

Why is an observation “inane -lacking sense or meaning; silly”. It is simply the data. One can debate the reasons for the doubling of patients with a positive COVID19 test across the NHS regions, and whether immunity may blunt this doubling. But I can’t see why the data is inane. I would LIKE there to be huge cross-reactive immunity too, but I am not seeing the evidence in the data.

204283 ▶▶▶▶▶ Commander Jameson, replying to djaustin, 6, #360 of 1673 🔗

So what do you suppose a much longer doubling time of [insert scary metric of choice] compared to March (~3 days) suggests?

Could it possibly be that thing – immunity – indicating that the remaining susceptible population is rather smaller than in March? It does rather speak against the bizarre hypothesis that this particular virus, unlike all other coronaviruses, and indeed unlike almost every virus known to man, lacks the capacity to induce immunity?

204300 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Commander Jameson, replying to Commander Jameson, 7, #361 of 1673 🔗

I mean, c’mon, you work in clinical research. While you clearly have a very limited understanding of medicine I don’t doubt your ability to understand data. That being the case, you will know that it’s far more robust to look at an “all cause” event rather than one further categorised by some other variable, be it the opinion of an investigator or cherry picking the one (possibly false) positive out of multiple PCR tests performed on the same patient.

So what is happening to all-cause hospital admissions? You know, the reason we agreed to “flatten the curve” for three weeks. Are they doubling? Of course not. If they were I would expect to see every hospital in full-on panic mode (depending on the duration of the admission, of course).

204310 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ djaustin, replying to Commander Jameson, -3, #362 of 1673 🔗

Deaths will follow admissions and All-cause mortality will follow deaths. Deaths in a week’s time are very predictable from admissions with positive COVID19 test.

The longer doubling time than seen previously is due to continued contact restrictions in the general population other than schools.

Immunity would manifest in regions that had high previous exposure (London) growing slower (or not at all) compared with regions that did not (e.g., South West). That is not seen in the data. All-cause admissions data, like testing is confounded by policy decisions. Hospital seeking behaviour based on symptoms such as hypoxia is much less confounded, which is why I follow them.

204333 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Commander Jameson, replying to djaustin, 6, #363 of 1673 🔗

Hospital-seeking behaviour based on symptoms is less confounded? I suppose that is why the saw a huge increase in people dying at home of cardiovascular causes, I suppose. No confounding at all.

There really are people so invested in this that they have to keep saying 2+2=5, in the face of all the evidence that this is of low lethality, the absence of evidence for the ridiculous assertion that exposure does not generate immunity, and the lack of a “second wave” that currently threatens to overwhelm the health system.

It’d be hilarious if it weren’t so tragic. You aren’t doing science, because you can’t bear to admit to yourself that you were wrong.

204422 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ djaustin, replying to Commander Jameson, -3, #364 of 1673 🔗

Ventilations are following admissions and deaths will follow too. As I said, there is evidence of an epidemic of hypoxia with a current doubling time consistent across regions. If immunity was strong in London (and lasting) then one would surely predict that London would be an outlier given the severity in the first wave? One can test that assertion in multiple data streams.

The increase in total numbers dying at home was met by a corresponding decrease in the numbers dying in hospitals.

As for the science – I have not asserted anything. But cross-reactive immunity should have testable hypotheses. As should the notion of contact restriction. The data shows an impressive change in direction of hospital admissions and subsequent deaths when schools returned, with little separation across the regions. Immunity will flatten the rate of change eventually (if sufficiently long-lasting), but the effects are of course confounded by continuous policy changes.

204469 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Commander Jameson, replying to djaustin, 5, #365 of 1673 🔗

Again you show your theoretician’s lamentable ignorance of the medical science: cross-reactive immunity is what is there prior to covid-19 coming on the scene. We don’t know, but it would be a reasonable guess that this is roughly similar across regions and thus should not much affect the doubling time of [scary metric of choice] during an epidemic.

Acquired immunity on the other hand, what you actually meant to say, is due to covid exposure. This might well vary from one region to another simply because it has been around in the human population for a far shorter time than the other endemic coronaviruses, and the proportion of people exposed (and thus developing immunity) in different regions will still be very different. But you could still, given that we are climbing up the “second ripple” curve from extremely low summer numbers see doubling times that are initially very similar. Any small and limited outbreak still has a relatively large number of susceptible people compared to infectious people at the early stage, whether the absolute proportion of susceptible people is 70% or 30%. The outbreaks become self-limiting because as the number of infectious persons grows, that ratio of susceptible to infectious persons dominates the transmission dynamics. The low doubling time compared to March tells us that there is already widespread immunity, regardless of its source, and across regions. But I don’t think the noisy data (inevitable since we are talking about low numbers of events right now) lets us draw much conclusion about the variability of immunity across regions. It might do were the numbers larger.

204513 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ djaustin, replying to Commander Jameson, -2, #366 of 1673 🔗

Give me one testable hypothesis for implications of widespread cross-immunity. Be it pre-existing or otherwise. If a large fraction of the population do not experience the infection at all, so be it. They would not figure in any estimation of the epidemic, nor feature in hospital admissions, and can carry on their lives as per normal – assuming they never transmit the virus. There is no evidence so far of self-limiting behaviour. A prospective T cell cross reactivity trial would help resolve such a hypothesis. I’m surprised it hasn’t happened yet. Sadly in a population of 66M, even 30% wholly susceptible is still a large number.

And I agree we are climbing from low levels, but the rate of climb depressingly shows no regional variation, despite the noise. It also coincides with a return to school, despite early assertions that children either do not become infected or do not spread the infection. ONS data suggests they do become infected, but do not show symptoms and certainly do not head for hospital (unlike influenza, where they are a disproportionate burden on healthcare).

204538 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Commander Jameson, replying to djaustin, 2, #367 of 1673 🔗

“There is no evidence so far of self-limiting behaviour.”

There is, and you have provided it, in the form of the far lower doubling time for hospital admissions compared to March! This is direct evidence of the slower growth in N of new infections which is predicted by a higher prevalence of immunity, regardless of whether this arises from exposure to covid-19 or other endemic cornoaviruses. It also indirectly shows that there is either more widespread cross-immunity than the 0% that SAGE purports, or there has been far more widespread asymptomatic/mildly symptomatic infection than we know.

At this point, we might well concede that we want to reduce the pressure on the NHS over the winter. As a long-term detractor of your Imperial buddy Professor “we’re all doomed, again”, Ferguson, I will grant that even his infamous “Report 9” never said to do what we are currently doing indefinitely, but to switch the lockdown on and off in response to the likely pressure on hospitals (which I think the model was of some use for).

Here are some testable predictions for you. Feel free to come back next year and compare to the doomsday scenario:

1) There will be further “positives”, symptomatic infections, and deaths this winter, but the deaths will be nothing on the scale of March/April 2020.
2) All-cause mortality between now and April 2021 will be no more than 5% higher than the same period during the last 5 years.
3) Estimates of the IFR will continue to fall and will nadir at below 0.2%.
4) The CFR based on hospital admission will fall to below 3%
5) There will be no third wave, the epidemic will be entirely over by next summer, but we will still continue to see infections and deaths from/with covid because we are specifically looking for them.
6) Community immunity will relegate covid to just another of the dozens of background respiratory infections, essentially it will be a competing risk for proximal cause of death in end-of-lifers (in which endemic coronaviruses already have a known IFR of around 6%), and a kiddies’ sniffle.

204637 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ djaustin, replying to Commander Jameson, #368 of 1673 🔗

Slope of the curve is the product of number of contacts and proportion who can catch it. Slowing that rate can be achieved by changing either. Only a slowing when contacts remain constant would indicate evidence of immunity. We’ve never had a period of constant contacts, but we did have a BIG change at the beginning of September, which was accompanied by a universal increase in hospital admissions and following deaths.

I think the best one can hope for, is that when schools are closed for holidays, any additional restrictions may have a disproportionate effect on transmission. Because I can’t see them having a huge effect at the moment, and certainly not enough to contain the rise in hospital admissions and likely pressure on resources.

As for the testable hypotheses
1) Completely agree
2) I’ll come back with those – I monitor All cause mortality weekly. Up to 10 days ago we have been running 5% higher than the past 10 year mean and just above the 10-year maximum (ONS only report 5 years but have more data on their website). I expect a gradual rise above this, but nothing like as bad as April. I predicted 30k excess deaths.
3) I don’t honestly believe we’ll ever really know the IFR – I’ve always maintained that we don’t know the denominator and still subscribe to that view. I am sure that asymptomatic infections play a role. I don’t automatically jump to the view that they play a huge role (yet).
4) The CFR is falling already thanks to better management. ICNARC have some very positive data. When antivirals become widespread I expect even greater falls. Remdesivir is not that drug, but others will follow.
5) We shall see – I would prefer to see a policy with clear communication of the likely consequences of any decision (good and bad). I don’t really see any good choices and I see a lot of cloudy but strongly held presumptions either way – hence my skepticism and presence here.
6) One day, I completely agree. It will be the fifth endemic seasonal coronavirus. We will establish some degree of protection (vaccine or past-infection experience), with protection/treatment for those most at risk, and this will lower the severity of infection and reduce the burden on healthcare. I expect immunity to wane and vaccination to be annual and rolled out with influenza.

How we get there is the debate. And I like scientific debate.

204722 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Sylvie, replying to djaustin, #369 of 1673 🔗

Given the lack of dangerous consequences in the newborn and young, I am unclear why you think vaccination will need to be annual? Eventually won’t the immunity conferred by successive bouts of infection protect an ever aging majority of the population, until most will have immunity? Granted this might take some time and boosting by vaccination of the elderly and infirm might help over the next 25 years or so (if such a vaccine weren’t worse than the disease) ; but if it’s not a maimer like measles or polio, what’s the problem with allowing reactive immunity to be the primary and favoured solution? And let’s not pray in aid ‘long covid’ . Much more attention needs to be paid to the proper treatment of post viral auto immune conditions, but covid is only one trigger among many of these, it’s not a unique problem.

205200 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ djaustin, replying to Sylvie, #370 of 1673 🔗

Annual for the elderly is my expectation due to waning levels of natural and probably Vaccine-induced antibodies. This has been noted with other coronaviruses where reinfection occurs about every two years. More frequent in children. This means children will maintain some level of immunity from a young age, which they do not have for influenza.

How long any vaccine protection lasts (if any) is not yet known. We have the highest flu vaccine take up of anywhere. Adding another annual vaccine would make sense. If there is no vaccine, we will have antibodies, two have shown promise in treatment already, they’ll almost certainly be protective too.

Don’t start me on long Covid. I’m still suffering since April. The morbidity of this infection is poorly studied so far.

205454 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Sylvie, replying to djaustin, #371 of 1673 🔗

Thank you for confirming my supposition that repeated CV19 infection from a young age will become the norm and prevent serious consequences later in life. I still do not follow the argument for annual CV19 vaccination, unless you are talking solely for an annually reducing cohort of those above 60-65 now until they die around 85. Hence my example of a period of say 25 years. And if the vaccine, as I imagine, turns out to be only marginally better than the disease for that elderly group, why vaccinate, why not rely on better treatment regimens, including, as you suggest, Iv antibody plasma ? Or is mass vaccination of that age group cheaper than Iv plasma for a smaller number of actual cases? (And, let’s face it, we need to face up to allowing a peaceful death to the 25% with dementia for whom a CV19 death is a blessed relief for both them and their relatives?)
The reason the morbidity of this auto immune condition is poorly studied has a lot to do with the arrogance of the medical profession, who have ignored and belittled sufferers for years because it has been routinely perceived as women whining about an imaginary psychological condition. Like period pain, endometriosis, and menopausal symptoms. Roll on a proper acknowledgement of its debilitating and sometimes life altering effects, and real investigation of how to treat it.

204897 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Tim Bidie, replying to djaustin, #372 of 1673 🔗

Compare and contrast:

‘……. we did have a BIG change at the beginning of September, which was accompanied by a universal increase in hospital admissions and following deaths.’


‘In September 2020, there were 39,827 deaths registered in England, 2,568 deaths more than the five-year average (2015 to 2019) for September; in Wales, there were 2,610 deaths registered, 135 deaths more than the five-year average for September.

The leading cause of death in September 2020 was dementia and Alzheimer’s disease in both England (accounting for 11.2% of all deaths) and in Wales (11.1% of all deaths).

The coronavirus (COVID-19) did not feature in the top ten leading causes of death for deaths registered in September 2020, in England or Wales; in England, COVID-19 was the 19th most common cause of death and in Wales COVID-19 was the 24th most common cause of death.’

Of the 39,827 deaths registered in September 2020 in England, 1.7% (1.4% in August) (690 deaths) involved the coronavirus (COVID-19). In Wales, 1.3% (2.2% in August) of the 2,610 deaths registered in September involved COVID-19 (35 deaths).’

ONS Monthly Mortality Analysis

Is this evidence of a parallel universe?

204930 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ chris c, replying to Tim Bidie, 1, #373 of 1673 🔗

Plus I seem to remember all cause mortality was at an all time low for many weeks

205206 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ djaustin, replying to Tim Bidie, #374 of 1673 🔗

Deaths will follow admissions, of that be in no doubt. All-cause mortality changes lag deaths, I expect to see evidence of an increase in three weeks time. Which corresponds to deaths next week due to the lag in reporting official death statistics by ONS.

205857 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Tim Bidie, replying to djaustin, #375 of 1673 🔗

Overall all cause mortality has been plumb normal on a weekly basis since May.

It is just no good to keep on saying that it is all going to get a lot worse in the future.

Overall all cause mortality has been showing that it will not for some time now.

Yes, admissions will go up and, with them, deaths. They always do at this time of the year.

But covid deaths have been 1.4% and 1.7% of deaths for the last two months despite massive overcounting of deaths ’caused’ by covid 19 and overall all cause deaths normal.

I expect to see evidence……’ is not a good basis for defending a point of view.

205315 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to djaustin, #376 of 1673 🔗

You’re assuming that every hospital admssion who tests positive for covid is going to die, which is nonsense.

205536 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ djaustin, replying to Cheezilla, #377 of 1673 🔗

Not at all. But there is a very strong correlation between the two. For low admissions, deaths in 7 days time are roughly today’s admissions divided by 7. For higher admissions the relationship is a little more complicated.

204440 ▶▶▶▶▶ Libertarianist, replying to djaustin, 6, #378 of 1673 🔗

The rate of rise in the admissions is significantly less than in March. It’s extremely clear evidence. I work in Critical Care, our admissions with covid picked up in September and have dropped right off now. I work in a so called hotspot. I expect them to rumble on all winter, with a rise again December as happens with influenza. It’s nearly over. Face facts

204462 ▶▶▶▶▶ Libertarianist, replying to djaustin, 6, #379 of 1673 🔗

Our current number of ITU patients with confirmed covid19 is 0.002% of our catchment population. Around 25-30% of our capacity. This is in line with a normal winter with regard to general viral pneumonia.

204467 ▶▶▶▶▶ Libertarianist, replying to djaustin, 5, #380 of 1673 🔗

Clear evidence of herd immunity from difference in rate of rise

204489 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ djaustin, replying to Libertarianist, -5, #381 of 1673 🔗

No, an equal interpretation is “Clear evidence of working from home and closing pubs early from difference in rate of rise”. Or even, shudder, “Clear evidence of masks working from difference in rate of rise”. That the rate of rise is slower is not in debate. The reasons for the difference are the scientific question. Immunity would predict that areas that had the highest levels in the first wave (London) would have a slower rate of increase than areas that had lower rates. Sadly that is not the case.

204507 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Commander Jameson, replying to djaustin, 1, #382 of 1673 🔗

“Immunity would predict that areas that had the highest levels in the first wave (London) would have a slower rate of increase than areas that had lower rates.”

You missed at least 1 alternative hypothesis here: The North has higher cross-reactive immunity. Which is why it saw fewer first-wave cases but is showing the same rate of increase as London now (because total immunity is now similar).

204517 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ djaustin, replying to Commander Jameson, -2, #383 of 1673 🔗

Perhaps, but the alternative is that the North was several weeks behind London, so had higher levels when restrictions were lifted and transmission increased, and has not recovered since. A difference in absolute numbers manifests as a lag time in exponential growth and decline.

204920 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Tim Bidie, replying to djaustin, 1, #384 of 1673 🔗

‘….had higher levels….’

What is the evidence you are relying on for that statement?

205247 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ djaustin, replying to Tim Bidie, #385 of 1673 🔗

A plot of hospital admission rates for COVID19 positive patients by region shows much higher levels in the North.

205861 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Tim Bidie, replying to djaustin, #386 of 1673 🔗

Based on which PCR tests using what cycle threshold?

Without referencing the chart, and its base data, you have no credibility.

204728 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Sylvie, replying to Commander Jameson, #387 of 1673 🔗

I have not seen higher cross reactive immunity in the North ever suggested elsewhere. What might cause it?

204945 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ chris c, replying to Sylvie, 4, #388 of 1673 🔗

Whippets and flat caps work better than masks?

205063 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ OpenWindowsOpenPubsOpenShopsOpenBorders, replying to chris c, 2, #389 of 1673 🔗

This is a much more plausible hypothesis than any suggestion of lockdowns working!!

205499 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Commander Jameson, replying to Sylvie, #390 of 1673 🔗

I don’t believe it’s the case. I’m trying to illustrate Dr Austin OBE’s unscientific approach. All your hypotheses should be mutually exclusive and include all possibilities.

That the North has higher baseline cross-reactive immunity is a possibility so needs to be considered. I don’t think it’s likely.

204943 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ chris c, replying to Commander Jameson, 2, #391 of 1673 🔗

Plus how stable is the London population. Don’t people move in and out any more?

205462 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Sylvie, replying to chris c, #392 of 1673 🔗

That was exactly my reaction too. In other words, you have a greater number of susceptibles moving in, instead of a stable number of susceptible newborns, but the effect is similar.

204940 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Tim Bidie, replying to djaustin, #393 of 1673 🔗

Immunity would predict that areas that had the highest levels in the first wave (London) would have a slower rate of increase than areas that had lower rates. Sadly that is not the case.’

What is the evidence you are relying on for that statement?

205225 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ djaustin, replying to Tim Bidie, #394 of 1673 🔗

I linked to a plot of numbers of admissions that are consistently doubling across all nhs regions. London is sadly no exception. It declined faster, one might hope due to some effect of immunity, but when unlocked looks the same as all others.

205867 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Tim Bidie, replying to djaustin, #395 of 1673 🔗

Admissions for what, exactly?

Hospital admissions always increase at this time of year!

These points are not credible.

207286 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Binra, replying to djaustin, #396 of 1673 🔗

Sadly you are a case!

205059 ▶▶▶ OpenWindowsOpenPubsOpenShopsOpenBorders, replying to djaustin, 1, #397 of 1673 🔗

How does that differ from hospital admission levels normally seen ramping up across autumn? Especially as admissions (total) are rising up from being greatly reduced in summer when almost all normal surgery was cancelled, now only most is cancelled and some can’t wait, hence a rise in admissions from people needing treatment for things they should have had fixed in spring. Since May hospitals even in hotspots have had a greater proportion of “covid patients” be people in for other reasons who just happened to have a +ve test than people suffering hospital worthy symptoms from the virus.

205242 ▶▶▶▶ djaustin, replying to OpenWindowsOpenPubsOpenShopsOpenBorders, #398 of 1673 🔗

It’s a fair question, and I am not aware of public domain data showing total hospital admissions to compare. The rise in ventilated patients does however follow the rise in COVID19 positive patients, which offers some corroboration that the burden of COVID19 disease has been climbing since September. September is too early for normal flu season and other respiratory infections to show. I don’t expect a influenza to play much role based on the experience of Southern Hemisphere countries. But we could be doubly unlucky I guess!

204730 ▶▶ Adam, replying to OKUK, #399 of 1673 🔗

Dr yeadon needs to write to citizen Khan and tell him so Mayor’s office City Hall London SE1 2AA

204024 richmond, 36, #400 of 1673 🔗

The presenters are unbelievably condescending towards that couple. Most people watching that clip will be appalled. Big mistake by the establishment to talk to them like that.

204027 BeBopRockSteady, 13, #401 of 1673 🔗

I’ve always found gyms to be soulless places, too much machinery involved in what should be a liberating experience (exercise). Giev a me a forest run any day.

But I am absolutely 1 million % behind these titans. Who would have thought they’d be the first line of defence.

I just hope they are not too absorbed in the narrative and see its bigger than them. That this is an assault on everyone

204031 Basics, 7, #402 of 1673 🔗


Dr Kevin Corbett. Posted before I’m sure. In interview with Davud Scott. Dr Corbett is one of the many great people we have been lucky enough to encounter as a result of the oppression and attack by our our givernment upon us.

Dr Corbett talks about how and when he first realised something was wrong with the official line, spoiler – from the very beginning. He talks about the contaigon hysteria that is prevalent across all parts of society especially including the professional who damn well ought to know better. He gives his founded reasons for suggesting the NHS had had a Nazification applied to it.

Dr Kevin Corbett speaks so well, with so much compassion and understanding he is not to be missed. It’s an hour long the pay off is a wonderfully solid encourahing message that the evils doing this will get theres – politicians and scientists alike.

Thoroughly recommend a listen.

204033 Rosie, replying to Rosie, 5, #403 of 1673 🔗

Making a leaflet. Here’s the medium-length version:
Open letter from medical doctors and health professionals to all Belgian authorities and all Belgian media. [extracts/paraphrase]
September 5th 2020

We, doctors and health professionals, wish to express our serious concern. The course of covid-19 followed the course of a normal wave of infection similar to a flu season. As every year, we see a mix of flu viruses following the curve: first the rhinoviruses, then the influenza A and B viruses, followed by the coronaviruses. There is nothing different from what we normally see.

The non-specific PCR test produces many false positives. The test does not measure how many viruses are present in the sample. A real viral infection means a massive presence of viruses, the so-called virus load. If someone tests positive, this does not mean that that person is actually clinically infected, is ill or is going to become ill.

For thousands of years, the human body has been exposed daily to moisture and droplets containing infectious microorganisms (viruses, bacteria and fungi). The penetration of these microorganisms is prevented by the immune system. A strong immune system relies on normal daily exposure to these microbial influences.

Social isolation and economic damage led to an increase in depression, anxiety, suicides, intra-family violence and child abuse. Fear, persistent stress and loneliness induced by social distancing weaken the immune system and general health.

Mortality turned out to be many times lower than expected and close to that of a normal seasonal flu (0.1-0.5%). The vast majority of infected persons (>98%) did not or hardly became ill or recovered spontaneously.

From the distressing media images of ARDS (acute respiratory distress syndrome) where people were suffocating and given artificial respiration in agony, we now know that this was caused by an exaggerated immune response with intravascular coagulation in the pulmonary blood vessels which we can now treat with a well-established protocol.

Spreading occurs by drip infection (only for patients who cough or sneeze) and aerosols in closed, unventilated rooms. Contamination is therefore not possible in the open air.

Wearing a mask has side effects. Every day we now see patients complaining of headaches, sinus problems, respiratory problems and hyperventilation due to wearing masks. Some experts even warn of an increased transmission of the virus and brain damage to children.

Close examination of the figures shows that there is not a second wave of corona – the peak is over.

Survey studies on influenza vaccinations show that in 10 years we have only succeeded three times in developing a vaccine with an efficiency rate of more than 50%. Vaccinating our elderly appears to be inefficient. Over 75 years of age, the efficacy is almost non-existent. An untested vaccine, which is implemented by emergency procedure and for which the manufacturers have already obtained legal immunity from possible harm, raises serious questions. We do not wish to use our patients as guinea pigs.

Covid-19 is not a killervirus, but a well treatable condition with a mortality rate comparable to the seasonal flu. There is no state of emergency.  As doctors and health professionals we demand an immediate end to all measures.
See also
Margareta Griesz Brisson https://www.bitchute.com/video/Blzj0nJFEnpZ/

204056 ▶▶ Rosie, replying to Rosie, 4, #404 of 1673 🔗

Here’s an even shorter version for people to print out and use if they wish:

Open letter from medical doctors and health professionals to all Belgian authorities and all Belgian media. [extracts/paraphrase] September 5th 2020

We, doctors and health professionals, wish to express our serious concern. The course of covid-19 followed the course of a normal wave of infection similar to a flu season. There is nothing different from what we normally see. Close examination of the figures shows that there is not a second wave of corona.

The non-specific PCR test produces many false positives. The test does not measure how many viruses are present in the sample. A real viral infection means a massive presence of viruses, the so-called virus load. If someone tests positive, this does not mean that that person is actually clinically infected, is ill or is going to become ill.

Social isolation and economic damage lead to an increase in depression, anxiety, suicides, intra-family violence and child abuse. Fear, persistent stress and loneliness induced by social distancing weaken the immune system and general health.

Spreading occurs by drip infection (only for patients who cough or sneeze) and aerosols in closed, unventilated rooms. Contamination is therefore not possible in the open air.

Wearing a mask has side effects. Every day we now see patients complaining of headaches, sinus problems, respiratory problems and hyperventilation due to wearing masks. Some experts even warn of an increased transmission of the virus and brain damage to children.

Covid-19 is not a killervirus, but a well treatable condition with a mortality rate comparable to the seasonal flu. There is no state of emergency.  As doctors and health professionals we demand an immediate end to all measures.
See also
Margareta Griesz Brisson https://www.bitchute.com/video/Blzj0nJFEnpZ/

204733 ▶▶▶ TT, replying to Rosie, #405 of 1673 🔗

As the Belgian authorities to whom the letter was originally addressed didn’t give a toss, don’t get your hopes up for others to take any of the suggestions on board…

204034 AnotherSceptic, replying to AnotherSceptic, 53, #406 of 1673 🔗

I just watched the interview with Maureen & Her Husband Mike & I have to say, that Sarah Jarvis is a condescending cow, she even shook her head at what Mike said.
Then she trotted out the “we are not asking everyone to stay indoors”…WTF???? They are telling everyone to stay indoors!!!
Then she told him that he hadn’t lived through 6 pandemics, unless he was 103!!!

What a horrible cow she is, towing the propaganda line & thinking that she knows best because she is a doctor.

Maureen & Mike spoke perfect sense, but because that goes against the fear mongering propaganda, it means that they are treated with contempt by the arseholes who buy into all this shit.

I was also livid when that boot doctor said, “you say that you had coronavirus, but you were maybe not tested”

The cheeky, condescending boot.

204037 ▶▶ Cecil B, replying to AnotherSceptic, 29, #407 of 1673 🔗

Add her to the list of collaborators

204041 ▶▶ Andy C, replying to AnotherSceptic, 33, #408 of 1673 🔗

I couldn’t believe how patronising she was. She was vile.

204119 ▶▶▶ KBuchanan, replying to Andy C, 14, #409 of 1673 🔗

She is always vile, I seem to remember the same smirking condescension when the poor parents of young Charlie Guard were trying to get their son to the US.

204048 ▶▶ smileymiley, replying to AnotherSceptic, 35, #410 of 1673 🔗

And the blatant lies she said about we’ve never had a virus as bad as this one! She’s forgotten 2018 flu, >50,000 deaths 1968 flu 100,000. She’s an idiot.

204075 ▶▶▶ mjr, replying to smileymiley, 24, #411 of 1673 🔗

mike hadnt forgotten and he quoted100000 for 1968.

i have been amazed how many incompetent doctors have become tv doctors . and they are all such condescending line toeing arses .

204049 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to AnotherSceptic, 12, #412 of 1673 🔗

My thoughts exactly.

204061 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to AnotherSceptic, 13, #413 of 1673 🔗

Yet anyone who claims to have had covid, test or no test, is faithfully added to the Long Covid list when they start to feel a bit tired.

204732 ▶▶▶ Sylvie, replying to A. Contrarian, -4, #414 of 1673 🔗

You evidently know nothing about post viral auto immune reactions.

205029 ▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Sylvie, 2, #415 of 1673 🔗

Are you just being contentious?

205220 ▶▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Sylvie, 5, #416 of 1673 🔗

Sorry? Don’t know what you’re getting at.

If you think I’m denying the existence of serious post viral illness you couldn’t be more wrong. But I think the overhyping of Long Covid does all post viral illness a disservice and is rude to people who have suffered for years and been told it’s just “yuppie flu” or all in their head. We’ve never had “Long Flu” or “Long Norovirus” named before – why not? Because no one cared. Is Long Covid the only important or “real” post viral disease? Because that’s what the media are trying to tell us.

205471 ▶▶▶▶▶ Sylvie, replying to A. Contrarian, -1, #417 of 1673 🔗

If you say ‘ anyone who claims to have long covid …is added to the Long Covid list when they start to feel a bit tired’ one could be forgiven for thinking you were a denier of the reality of the consequences of a cytokine storm.
The media are not, so far as I’ve observed, suggesting it’s the only real post viral disease. And I have no idea why you think drawing attention to it and studying it, as Spector is, is in any way ‘over hyping’ it.

205261 ▶▶▶▶ AnotherSceptic, replying to Sylvie, 1, #418 of 1673 🔗

Are you Matt Wankcock by any chance?

204068 ▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to AnotherSceptic, 17, #419 of 1673 🔗

They soon got them off the air when Mike spoke up and mentioned Herd Immunity

204079 ▶▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 6, #420 of 1673 🔗

Ofcom have expressly stated that TV presenters should quickly intervene if govt policy is undermined. Not saying it is right but they are the rules.

204132 ▶▶ Tee Ell, replying to AnotherSceptic, 23, #421 of 1673 🔗

“Let’s get a couple of old people on, it’ll be a lighthearted and feelgood affair because old people are sweet and funny.”

“Great – what’s the topic?”

“The false imprisonment of millions, hundreds of thousands of preventable deaths and the complete destruction of democracy and our economy.”

205328 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Tee Ell, 3, #422 of 1673 🔗

Let’s take the p*ss out of an old biddy with a Barnsley accent.

They picked the wrong old biddy!

204750 ▶▶ l835, replying to AnotherSceptic, 6, #423 of 1673 🔗

One of the many reasons I stopped listening to Jeremy Vine…

204036 Mr Dee, replying to Mr Dee, 13, #424 of 1673 🔗

It is my belief that the Welsh Government has implemented its fire-break policy not only to reset the way that the virus is circulating, but in order to reset the way that the people of Wales behave.

204070 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Mr Dee, 1, #425 of 1673 🔗

Yes. I agree with your thought. You can feel the evil SPI-B have wargamed the behavioural change and the fire break excuse a product of that planning. They will extend the fire break with 5-7 days left (if tgey haven’t already, I’m not up to speed).

To add to your thought the border being closed is a step to an eventual break up on the union. There’s a specific tell-tale in the border closure I believe. Wales close thier border – Krankie clearly would love to have done already, but the awakening at her doing so would have been huge. Drakeford has paved the way.

Isee this as a tell-tale there is a strategy between the politicians and those higher in real control they are working together out of sight. We will see if Krankie closes the Scottish side of the border.

We saw the same faux differences in the Nothern theatre production of Burnham-Macbeth. All of it a game to regionally create a national lockdown.

204072 ▶▶ annie, replying to Mr Dee, 6, #426 of 1673 🔗

Most of ’em can’t possibly behave any more stupidly than they are behaving now, short of dashing en masse like lemmings into the sea, which frankly would be a relief for the rest of us, only not in my bit of sea, please.

204074 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Mr Dee, 1, #427 of 1673 🔗

Bit of an obvious question but is there a stated aim to this firebreak?

204107 ▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Tom Blackburn, 2, #428 of 1673 🔗

I’ll post it later when I have time. Watch this space.

204052 RickH, replying to RickH, 3, #429 of 1673 🔗

The study that claims to show :” the transmission of SARS-CoV-2, as measured by R” is correlated with non-pharmacological measures really does seem to be ‘a piece of work’, given what we already know.

A key issue is, of course, is that ‘R’ is another modeller’s construct that pretends to a reflect areal-world phenomenon with a numerical value which is, in actuality, purely speculative and open to massive error.

As the item points out, however, the key flaw is the whole basis of the survey – which clearly reflects the trend of the gompertz curve.

On this basis, I reckon you could probably find a relationship over 28 days between falling infections and the occurrence of any random event measured at the right point.

204064 ▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to RickH, 4, #430 of 1673 🔗

There is a positive correlation between ice cream consumption and death by drowning. Surely, the only responsible public health response is to ban ice cream?

204083 ▶▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to Steve Hayes, 1, #432 of 1673 🔗

and water. Cant be too safe.

204108 ▶▶▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to Saved To Death, 1, #433 of 1673 🔗

One can die from drinking water. It lowers the sodium level.

204667 ▶▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Steve Hayes, 2, #434 of 1673 🔗

Leah Betts. Remember her? She got very famous for dying of “ecstasy” and the press wen to town demonising the popular “dance” drug. It turns out that she drank something like 15 litres of water and that is what killed her. She had heard that drinking water when you have “E’s” stops you dying.

204734 ▶▶▶▶▶ TT, replying to Steve Hayes, 2, #435 of 1673 🔗

Life itself is a terminal disease! That’s why our authorities are now looking to eradicate it…

204327 ▶▶ Freecumbria, replying to RickH, 4, #436 of 1673 🔗

Scientists discover that when people start taking off their coats in Spring and Summer it gets warmer outside.

The government therefore decrees it essential that people take off their coats now when outside in September to bring temperatures back to the levels in July and August.

In some areas of the North we have noticed that temperatures in October are getting cooler than in London. Therefore we now advise people in the North to take off all their clothes to stop this worrying exponential fall in temperatures.

We have seen some scientists claim that falling temperatures are due to the northern hemisphere being tilted away from the sun during the winter, and because the sun is lower in the sky during winter, this changes the angle of the light hitting us and how much heat energy we get from it. This is dangerous non-scientific nonsense and any videos claiming this will be taken down from youtube and other social media.

(November 2021 update) Temperatures have continued to fall and this is clearly due to people failing to comply with measures to remove coats and other clothing when outside. The government identifies that this non-compliance is particularly noticeable in the North

(Spring/Summer 2021 update) The government now see people are complying with the diktat to remove coats. This has partly resulted from the 66 million £10,000 fines applied to people seen outside during the winter without a coat. Outside temperatures are increasing and this shows our non coat wearing laws have worked.

204610 ▶▶▶ HAL9000, replying to Freecumbria, 2, #437 of 1673 🔗

That made me chuckle, thank you.

204055 Mark, replying to Mark, 5, #438 of 1673 🔗

The practical implementation of Bertolt Brecht’s proposal in The Solution that when the people do not do the right thing, the government should dissolve the people and replace it with another.

After the uprising of the 17th June
The Secretary of the Writers Union
Had leaflets distributed in the Stalinallee
Stating that the people
Had forfeited the confidence of the government
And could win it back only
By redoubled efforts. Would it not be easier
In that case for the government
To dissolve the people
And elect another?

204060 ▶▶ Rosie, replying to Mark, 2, #439 of 1673 🔗

Thanks for that. have been looking to see whats being said publicly about this. It’s been going on for years and they have had much practice – see here for more info https://www.beautyandthebeastlytruth.com/psychological-manipulation

204140 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Rosie, #440 of 1673 🔗

That’s a good reference summary – apart from the confusion introduced by the hobby-horse of the climate change issue, which is a different matter.

204071 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Mark, 2, #441 of 1673 🔗

Bit of a random thought. Has Derron Brown expressed any views on the ongoing psy-op yet?

204229 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Tom Blackburn, #442 of 1673 🔗

Not that I’ve seen. Would be interesting if he were sceptical.

204082 ▶▶ Gavroche, replying to Mark, 5, #443 of 1673 🔗

It seems to me that the thing to remember about behaviourism, whether in its psychological or its economic iterations, is that it is fundamentally elitist/technocratic and profoundly undemocratic. That is to say that democracy rests on the assumption that all citizens are equal and, as a result, are open to being persuaded to support one or other political choice or worldview based on appeals to their intelligence through rational debate and logical argument. Behaviourism, by contrast, assumes that an enlightened elite knows what is best for the mass of the people but that that mass are themselves easily diverted from pursuing that rational course of action by their irrational impulses and instincts. The enlightened elite cannot, therefore, rely on rational argument to win the masses over to their viewpoint, since the masses are by definition irrational and suggestible. The answer, then, is for the elite to attempt to ‘nudge’ the mass of the population towards what that elite knows to be their best interest but that the masses, by definition, are congenitally incapable of recognising or understanding.

I think this helps explain how a cadre of scientists and medics can reconcile to themselves promoting analyses and policy solutions that they know to be flawed or untrue: they can do this because they have convinced themselves that (a) they possess a unique knowledge of the situation that the masses cannot ever grasp, and (b) hence any course of action or statement that can convince or ‘nudge’ the population into line, however false or questionable, can be justified since it is necessary to encourage the irrational masses to fall into line in the name of the presumed greater good.

Of course, any true democrat will reject both of these founding assumptions, pointing out that (a) the elite are composed of many knaves, who don’t actually have unique access to the truth, and (b) the masses are not dumb instinctual brutes but free, equal, rational agents. Those democrats may situate themselves on the left or the right or in the centre of the political spectrum but they share a fundamental belief in equality and freedom that behaviourism rejects as naive.

204110 ▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Gavroche, #444 of 1673 🔗

I think of this often. Then Dr Hillary from Good Morning Britain tells me what I should think and I snap out of it.

Seriously though, would you be of the opinion that we have a democratic right to burn down our house if we so choose? Full liberty

204203 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to BeBopRockSteady, #445 of 1673 🔗

We have a semi-detached, so no. Isolated detached, of course.

204225 ▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 1, #446 of 1673 🔗

Where possible, I’d go with JS Mill’s harm principle, expressed crudely as: “The right to swing my fist ends where the other man’s nose begins.”.

It struggles when people start to take advantage of the inherent uncertainty in what the actual limits of “harm” are, but it’s a good general guide, imo, especially if you interpret harm quite restrictively (no bullshit about personal offence etc constituting harm, for instance).

204138 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Gavroche, 1, #447 of 1673 🔗

Behaviourism is a partial theory of human behaviour, let alone ‘humanity’ – but powerful in its misuse.

Morally, I see no clear distinction between that misuse and kidnapping, torture, or a gun at the head as a means of coercion.

Thus the term ‘Goebbels Brigade’ for the perversions of Science that infest SPI-B.

204746 ▶▶▶ Sylvie, replying to Gavroche, #448 of 1673 🔗

Unfortunately the lesson of history is that both the nobles and the serfs are dumb instinctual brutes. The difference between them is that the nobles have found out how to exploit the situation.

204123 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Mark, 1, #450 of 1673 🔗

Brecht was an interesting, contradictory character, and you can find a lot that rings bells in the current situation :

“…. do get it into your heads,this ‘lesser evil’ which
Year after year has been used to keep you completely out of the fight
Will very soon mean having to stomach the Nazis”

… and looking at the sad state of our democratic representatives, this strikes me :

“The sharks I dodged
The tigers I slew
What ate me up
Was the bedbugs.”

204213 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to RickH, #451 of 1673 🔗

Good stuff. You won’t be surprised to hear that politically I’m not generally in sympathy with Brecht. but he was clearly a very intelligent observer and a good wordsmith.

204379 ▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Mark, 2, #452 of 1673 🔗

You surprise me Mark 🙂

The thing about Brecht – like Orwell in a different context, is that he was a natural contrarian.

The other thing is that when he began writing, the major issue (as here and now) was the growth of totalitarianism in the form of the Nazis in Germany. The communists at that time were in the forefront of the opposition, and were essentially libertarian. Stalin’s totalitarianism didn’t come into the reckoning in that context.

204525 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to RickH, #453 of 1673 🔗

Orwell’s a good parallel.

Imo these men would have grown up today on the right but criticising totalitarians of both sides, rather than as they did, on the left but criticising totalitarians of both sides. In the late C19th and early C20th, the intellectual wind was in the sails of the left, as it is now in those of the right.

204062 2 pence, 1, #454 of 1673 🔗
204067 court, replying to court, #455 of 1673 🔗

Night at the theatre anyone? https://mobile.twitter.com/hopemilltheatr1/status/1319628382787817479

They must only listening to a tiny echo chamber who think this is a good idea. I bet a large percentage of their normal customers will just stay away without being vocal about it.

204100 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to court, 1, #456 of 1673 🔗


Love the comments though

204154 ▶▶ Cranmer, replying to court, #457 of 1673 🔗

On the one hand, I feel a bit sorry for them as they are obviously trying hard to keep the theatre going and preserve people’s livelihoods. But on the other, I feel slightly sickened by their desperate attempts to be upbeat and positive about what are increasingly obviously pointless restrictions on individual liberty. The trouble is, it’s a win-win situation for those who want to impose the ‘new normal’ on our society. People stay away because of fears of Covid, and because of fears of the restrictions themselves.

204073 Steve Martindale, replying to Steve Martindale, 2, #458 of 1673 🔗

Apparently Prof Pennngton is advocating zero-covid as an achievable objective;
I cannot say I am convinced? He says in this article that SARS-Cov2 is not like influenza and that therefore we can eradicate it but he is not clear why this should be?
Then also there is the question; even if this could be done, which I doubt, the cost is incredibly high, do we need to meet such a cost now the virus has passed its peak and is just pottering along?

204078 ▶▶ captainbeefheart, replying to Steve Martindale, 3, #459 of 1673 🔗

Of course we can reach zero-covid – because the tests are so accurate (up to 357% accurate), if everyone in the world got tested every 4 hours and we had a run of 2 weeks where no one in the world tested positive, we can all go back to normal.

Everyone knows that 🙂

204096 ▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to captainbeefheart, 5, #460 of 1673 🔗


Was at a house party last night and everyone in the company agreed that unless the local village pub return to normal after this lockdown, nobody will be going back and it’ll be out of business.

204099 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to Steve Martindale, 1, #461 of 1673 🔗

It seems that suggesting hugely wasteful expenditure is a qualification for Professorial status these days, I’ve never heard of any respiratory virus being eradicated anywhere in the world. The only virus I’ve heard of being eradicated is smallpox – presumably it’s an easily identifiable disease that is rarely asymptomatic.

204113 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Steve Martindale, 2, #462 of 1673 🔗

The virus has not been isolated. The viron has not been isolated. This idea of zero covid seems far fetched since the structure of the thing it seeks to ‘zero’ is not known to science.

Please, please correct me if this is no longer the case. It is my understanding the SARS CoV 2 virus structure has not been separated and uniquely identified. The following link to the biological effects and ill health are therefore not proven. There has been an assembling of a DNA sequence for it.

The PCR test was developed through websearch and rumour – without having isolated SARS CoV 2 to work with.

I realise this sounds incredible, I would value being corrected/updated by LS commenters who know more that myself.

Grouping together symptoms, some very servere, and labeling is not the same as proving an infection comes from a specific cause. For an example of this see Long Covid – the most charlatan grouping of symptoms to ever stalk the earth. Not at all to say people are not unwell, some serverely, but that it is many horizons away from being caused by a proven specific infection.

What are the symptoms of SARS CoV 2? How do you test for it? It has not been isolated.

Please correct me if I am not up to date.

204655 ▶▶▶ Bartleby, replying to Basics, #463 of 1673 🔗

I don’t know if you’re right or wrong, but certainly there are news articles claiming that the virus was isolated as far ago as March. And I’m sure I’ve seen other news about the RNA genetic sequence of the virus being published quickly in January.


You’re entitled to say and believe what you want, but I’d be concerned that saying the virus has never been isolated and that the PCR test was developed through websearch and rumour might be difficult to prove and for people to swallow.

204081 mattghg, replying to mattghg, 6, #464 of 1673 🔗

I’m going to quote a message that someone left on my local nextdoor.co.uk page under the heading “Re Potential breach of Covid 19 Guidance – Be Wary”. I’ve elided identifying details. Apparently it’s not satire…

I noticed two apparent parents of a very young child walking along XXX Road, on the pavement, without wearing masks, at around 7:12pm this evening and wondered if I ought to have advised them of their breach of the government guidance, or simply to have called the police? I would hate to think they were spreading the virus. Perhaps someone else witnessed the same event and might contribute? The child was wearing XXX, and the “father” was wearing XXX. The would-be mother wore XXX.

My instinctive reaction was to walk past them without comment, but I admit to feeling ashamed for what was at the very least a “mental breach” of the guidelines.

Would be grateful if the kind community could advise.

Sometimes, words genuinely fail me.

204089 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to mattghg, 2, #465 of 1673 🔗

That’s not real surely?

204091 ▶▶ Cecil B, replying to mattghg, 5, #466 of 1673 🔗

If I could have their name please. I will add it to the list

204152 ▶▶▶ thinkaboutit, replying to Cecil B, 3, #467 of 1673 🔗

Is that the Lord High Executioner list or the Dad’s Army list?

204112 ▶▶ thinkaboutit, replying to mattghg, 1, #468 of 1673 🔗

I think the guidelines say you can be unmasked if you are a carer. On this basis no parents should be masked. And it is perfectly legal not to wear a mask for many reasons. What a busy body. Perhaps someone should mention Disability Discrimination to her.

204126 ▶▶▶ arfurmo, replying to thinkaboutit, 7, #469 of 1673 🔗

But it was outside

204149 ▶▶▶▶ thinkaboutit, replying to arfurmo, 4, #470 of 1673 🔗

I know, I would have said that too. Wrong in so many ways.

204171 ▶▶▶▶ Cranmer, replying to arfurmo, 4, #471 of 1673 🔗

It’s just another example of people ‘interpreting up’ the guidelines. The same thing happened during Lockdown 1 – most people said we were only ‘allowed’ one hour of exercise a day, but the official guidance said ‘one session’ – no time was mentioned.

204382 ▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Cranmer, 3, #472 of 1673 🔗

There was an app on offer that would make your phone bleep after half an hour, so that you could turn for home like a good little moron.
In Wales it was illegal to leave your home for more than half an hour per day. And they tried to make it illegal to cycle further than a person could be expected to walk in half an hour, but that one turned out to be too cretinous even for the Welsh Politburo.
If you went a car journey it was forbidden to return by a different route from the one you went out on. Sadly, we kept on getting lost so that the return from our journey to the (nearly) nearest supermarket, five miles away (sort of), was 31 miles long.

204493 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Winter, replying to annie, 1, #473 of 1673 🔗

I had no idea it was illegal to leave my home for more than half an hour during the last lockdown. Just as well really. My dog would have been most dissatisfied with only a half hour walk a day. I didn’t take much notice of the prohibition on driving either. We like a walk in the forest. Slightly irritating though having to stop at the entrance to untie the tape and move the tires so I could get the car up the track…

204475 ▶▶▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Cranmer, 2, #474 of 1673 🔗

In England, the one hour limit was a myth. Someone asked Gove on TV how long people should exercise for and he just made something up. Almost immediately, it got around that it was law, possibly backed up by the more draconian ‘rules’ in Wales. .

We always ignored it! MW

204297 ▶▶ leggy, replying to mattghg, #475 of 1673 🔗

I’d love to know know what guidance they have imagined.

204465 ▶▶ Marialta, replying to mattghg, 2, #476 of 1673 🔗

I saw a similar post on my Next Door app. Someone had noticed more than 6 people in their garden and wanted to know if she should call the police. All but one of the comments agreed she should. One lone voice mentioned how Nazism took hold – I felt so angry I deleted the App

204085 Old Bill, replying to Old Bill, 44, #477 of 1673 🔗

I think I have just secured my financial and political future.

This morning I have been granted a patent application for my new Christmas gift which I am sure will sell in millions.

Like most good ideas it is very simple, just a punchbag with a picture of Johnson on one side and Hancock on the other.

I will obviously make so much money from this idea that I will be able to start my own political party which, I will obviously call “The Punchbag Party”.

My manifesto for this party is also simple and consists of the following:

1] All coronavirus laws to be repealed.

2] The cabinet and shadow cabinet to be put on trial for treason and crimes against humanity.

3] The law on assault to be changed so that it is fully legal to punch anybody under the age of 60 seen wearing a mask in public, along with anybody wearing anything at all who has worked for the BBC or the Guardian in the last 12 months.

I look forward to your support.

204136 ▶▶ annie, replying to Old Bill, 5, #478 of 1673 🔗

Put me down for ten, but put Drakeford on them along with that repulsive little twat Gething.

204146 ▶▶▶ thinkaboutit, replying to annie, 4, #479 of 1673 🔗

Perhaps do UK, Scottish and Welsh versions. Don’t want to exclude various types of Irish, either.

204159 ▶▶▶▶ Ewan Duffy, replying to thinkaboutit, 3, #480 of 1673 🔗

Make sure that the Irish version has “Saint” Tony on it.

204226 ▶▶ Silke David, replying to Old Bill, 3, #481 of 1673 🔗

I would like a version with Drosten on it.
The guy who invented the PCR test.

205423 ▶▶▶ KeithM, replying to Silke David, 1, #482 of 1673 🔗

Actually, PCR was devised by the late Prof. Kary Mullis. He was adamant that it was for purely lab. research, and was NOT a diagnostic technique

204279 ▶▶ Brian ‘Monty’ Cohen, replying to Old Bill, 2, #483 of 1673 🔗

I’m sure there are hundreds of gyms all over the country that would be interested. Liverpool in particular…

204450 ▶▶ CGL, replying to Old Bill, 2, #484 of 1673 🔗

I would like one before Christmas please? I can’t wait that long.

204536 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Old Bill, 3, #485 of 1673 🔗

Brilliant. I have already put up the hook from which I intend to string said bag.

204086 swedenborg, 3, #486 of 1673 🔗

 Fauci’s e mails this year.Supporting China’s response to C-19 in line with WHO declaration.

204093 Rosie, replying to Rosie, 2, #487 of 1673 🔗

Margareta Griesz Brisson who she is:
This is the German-language version.
My friend who is tri-lingual said this “Have just listened in German. It is the most moving appeal to reason and heart I have heard.”
Here is the English translation, it lasts 20 minutes and it’s all about the long term damage to the brain by masks and it’s as my friend said.

204115 ▶▶ Rosie, replying to Rosie, 1, #488 of 1673 🔗

After much mucking about I managed to post this onto the Daily Telegraph, only for mods to delete it a minute later. OMG.

204124 ▶▶▶ Andrew Kat, replying to Rosie, #489 of 1673 🔗

According to the WHO three hasn’t been a single positive flu specimen anywhere in the world since this whole covid thing started, Am I reading these stats correctly?

204098 CGL, replying to CGL, 5, #490 of 1673 🔗

In the Asch experiment, my answer would always be the one I would see as correct. I would never conform when I can clearly see that others are wrong. I am guessing everyone here would be the same. I am proud to be the one who stands up and shouts the right answer.

204103 ▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to CGL, 2, #491 of 1673 🔗

Then you would be in a very small minority: not in thinking that you would prefer evidence, as virtually everyone would make that claim; yet the vast majority prefer the opinion of the herd, and have the capacity to persuade themselves that that opinion is fact. The people going along are not lying; they are being sincere.

204197 ▶▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Steve Hayes, #492 of 1673 🔗

Yep. Human nature. Unavoidable. The same dynamics play out in our own smaller herd.

204459 ▶▶▶ CGL, replying to Steve Hayes, #493 of 1673 🔗

Yes I agree. The thing is I sort of did this when my eldest had the MMR vaccine. All the furore with Dr Wakefield was happening at that time, and I was the only one in my ante natal group to go ahead with it.

204104 James Marker, replying to James Marker, 24, #494 of 1673 🔗

Yesterday’s Telegraph featured an astute analysis from Jeremy Warner. He supposes the government is heavily invested in the lockdown strategy and cannot admit there are alternatives. In other words, the government is in a hole and digging deeper, desperately hoping to avoid admitting it’s wrecked the economy for nothing. I suspect Vallance also realises in his heart of hearts that the GBD strategy is right but cannot bring himself to own up to mistakes. Others here have suggested some members of SAGE are fundamentally corrupt, standing to make significant personal gains from the suppression/vaccine strategy – they may have a point. Some members of SAGE are clearly politically driven, seeking to usher in an authoritarian nanny state without democratic mandate. One day there will be an official enquiry into this catastrophe. I’d like to think those responsible will be held to account, but I’m not holding my breath.

204122 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to James Marker, 19, #495 of 1673 🔗

The reason why so much of the lockdown narrative is in a hole is because it conflicts with reality. It is untrue. The truth will out.

Take masks. Can’t be proven and so when they make the mistake of mandating them they need to force it. If cases go up, can’t be masks as they work. So more masks, everywhere. Cases go up, but masks work so it’s masks on babies, at home etc. Cases go up,cant be masks, so we put people in jail who refuse.

Eventually we are burning the last few maskless at the stake. Then we realise that we were wrong all along.

Truth will out.

204129 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 19, #496 of 1673 🔗

I’ll take the stake.
Not as a martyr, but as a stubborn git who WILL NOT COMPLY. In fact I CAN’T.
I can do no other.

204205 ▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to annie, 6, #497 of 1673 🔗

Here we stand.

204259 ▶▶▶▶▶ Fiat, replying to Mark, 2, #498 of 1673 🔗

We need our own 95

204145 ▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to James Marker, 10, #499 of 1673 🔗

Yeadon was a lot clearer than that.Its undeniable that Vallance is lying.Also at the start back in March there is an interview with Vallance where he is advocating Herd immunity.
Why did Sage totally change their approach is the question that needs to be answered

204231 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 4, #500 of 1673 🔗

Because of the 500,000 deaths prediction combined with the global media and political pressure – fear of being blamed for the deaths. If they’d had more courage they would have stuck to it even assuming the 500,000 was true because whatever the danger, there was never any other practical approach

204365 ▶▶ annie, replying to James Marker, 2, #501 of 1673 🔗

It’s like plate-spinning. With practice, you can keep lots of plates spinning for quite a while, but once one plate crashes, they all will, and fast.

y quickly.

204106 mhcp, replying to mhcp, 8, #502 of 1673 🔗

I’ve realised what the PCR testing is. It’s the bank CDO departments during the financial crisis.

For those who don’t know it’s all in the book The Big Short. Essentially mortgage bonds (mortgage backed securities MBS) are actually stable instruments provided the quality of the underlying mortgages are maintained. When dodgier and dodgier loans are made the MBS is more worthless except its value can be propped up by its rating.

When some investors found a way to bet against MBS the banks realised that they could create instruments that combined the bets themselves and sold them as synthetic bonds. And the market was limitless.

Until of course it all came crashing down.

PCR is an industry now. And they aren’t letting go until it all fails. Even then most got away scott free

204116 ▶▶ Cecil B, replying to mhcp, #503 of 1673 🔗

MP’s etc will have inside information and know when to buy in and when to get out

204143 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to Cecil B, 2, #504 of 1673 🔗

And if we had any kind of decent journalism in this country, they would be quickly exposed for insider trading.

204173 ▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to matt, 1, #505 of 1673 🔗

The massive scandal of tendering contracts hidden under the guise of Covid has similarly been ignored.

204127 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to mhcp, #506 of 1673 🔗

Great comparison. How the ratings agencies were not disbanded after the sub prime crisis I’ll never know.

Too big to fail I suppose.

Same with lockdowns, PCR, vaccines. TBTF

204141 ▶▶ thinkaboutit, replying to mhcp, 2, #507 of 1673 🔗

I did say to my son, when I saw the two stooges’ Graph of Doom, this virus is a Ponzi scheme.
Of course Ponzi schemes run out of people so that rise of cases was never going to be exponential.
And yes, the PCR is an industry.

204109 Cecil B, replying to Cecil B, 10, #508 of 1673 🔗

Something in the air

Thunderclap Newman

Call out the instigators
Because there’s something in the air
We’ve got to get together sooner or later
Because the revolution’s here, and you know it’s right
And you know that it’s right
We have got to get it together
We have got to get it together now
Lock up the streets and houses
Because there’s something in the air
We’ve got to get together sooner or later
Because the revolution’s here, and you know it’s right
And you know that it’s right
We have got to get it together
We have got to get it together now
Hand out the arms and ammo
We’re going to blast our way through here
We’ve got to get together sooner or later
Because the revolution’s here, and you know it’s right
And you know that it’s right
We have got to get it together
We have got to get it together now

204175 ▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to Cecil B, #509 of 1673 🔗

Played over the admittedly biased ITV television report when the Citizens of the Bogside in Londonderry, NI held firm and defeated the hated B specials in the troubles in the late 60’s
Happy memories.

204114 Peter Thompson, replying to Peter Thompson, 21, #510 of 1673 🔗

We need to talk about ” tele doctors ” . I have had the experience of working with a ” tele doctor ” . One of those ” tele doctors ” who boasted on their CV s of keeping their hand in. Needless to say they overrated themselves highly and were very conceited and opinionated.Their notes were full of inaccuracies . They were in essence very odd people , definately not team players and somebody you wouldn’t give a long term position to.

I will say this individual was however at least not Dr Hilary Jones who has been a PHE mouthpiece from day one of this fiasco and has now been awarded a MBE for his stirling propaganda service.

204139 ▶▶ matt, replying to Peter Thompson, 8, #511 of 1673 🔗

The video linked above was only mildly irritating (because of the presenters) up until the moment when the doctor appeared, after 10 seconds of which I had to stop watching.

204130 THE Lockdown Sceptic, replying to THE Lockdown Sceptic, 33, #512 of 1673 🔗

I don’t watch tabloid trash TV like GMB for good reason, and Dr Sarah Jarvis illustrated exactly why as she arrogantly patronised the brilliant Maureen & Michael from Barnsley with her government propaganda and outright lies about lockdown, COVID-19 deaths and masks. It is disgraceful the level of deceit being imposed on the British people by the Government with the full backing of Parliament, as they devastate and destroy the economy and psychological health of the country, for an illness less virulent and deadly than seasonal flu. If you’re reading this, likely I’m preaching to the converted, but if we don’t stand up against this Stalinist tyranny of #ProjectFear, there will be nothing left to save; liberty will be the least of our worries compared to the 10s of 1000s who will die because Johnson and Halfcocked Hancock keep ranting about protecting the precious NHS whilst it protects no one since it’s been shut since March, and despite their protestations, British citizens can’t even get through to their doctors, let alone get an appointment. There is already blood on the hands of the Government with suicides and non-diagnoses of deadly untreated illnesses, but it’ll be far worse on a year’s time… The #FACTS that matter: lockdowns don’t work; masks don’t work; SAGE lie.

204541 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to THE Lockdown Sceptic, 5, #513 of 1673 🔗

Maureen & Michael need to do another interview telling us how horrible this condescending woman treated them

204131 captainbeefheart, replying to captainbeefheart, 4, #514 of 1673 🔗

Small increases in air pollution linked to depression, says study…


So THAT’S what is causing all of this depression. Having lockdowns reduces air pollution, so that must mean they’re good for our mental health.

More bollocks from the Guardians of our rights and freedoms.

Recent research has linked dirty air to increased suicides and indicated that growing up in polluted places increases the risk of mental disorders.

204135 ▶▶ NorthumbrianNomad, replying to captainbeefheart, 1, #515 of 1673 🔗

That also explains my depression – it’s the pollution from all the politicians’ and scientists’ halitosis as they spout their noxious hot air at me.

204157 ▶▶ RickH, replying to captainbeefheart, 3, #516 of 1673 🔗

Classic correlation=causation error (see below). F.ing elementary scientific error.

There’s not much on whether they attempted to control for other factors – but from what I can see, they couldn’t actually do that given the scope of the study.

But strip it to its bones and you have ‘Polluted urban residential areas have a higher incidence of mental illness’

Well – bugger me. I’d never have thought that from all the literature on differences in populations!

204185 ▶▶ annie, replying to captainbeefheart, #517 of 1673 🔗

All Grauniad readers must have grown up in hellholes of pollution, then,

204194 ▶▶ Pancho the Grey, replying to captainbeefheart, 1, #518 of 1673 🔗

But this crisis is reducing pollution massively and depression is spiralling. Case immediately disproved

204142 Mr Dee, replying to Mr Dee, 11, #519 of 1673 🔗

The Range. Inessential items. If you can’t order them online you have to go into the shop, order them, then come back later to collect them in person.

So Drakeford’s turned a single shopping trip into two shopping trips. During a so-called ‘stay at home’ period.

Clown Planet.

204242 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Mr Dee, 1, #520 of 1673 🔗

If the fire break is two weeks. Is this essential only carry on for two weeks or does that have a different length of time to run?

Theoretically speaking of course since fire break creep will soon come.

204346 ▶▶▶ Pancho the Grey, replying to Basics, #521 of 1673 🔗

Whatever they say, you can’t rely on it

204245 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Mr Dee, 1, #522 of 1673 🔗

Hahahahahahahahaha. 🙂 Cracker.

204151 Voz 0db, replying to Voz 0db, -28, #523 of 1673 🔗

Gyms Are Essential Services

NO they are NOT!

204170 ▶▶ dickyboy, replying to Voz 0db, 16, #524 of 1673 🔗

everything is essential to somebody. who the fuck gets to decide what is essential?

204221 ▶▶▶ Voz 0db, replying to dickyboy, -16, #525 of 1673 🔗

The definition of “essential” gets to decide that!

Do any moron uman animal dies if there are no gyms?!

So… NOT ESSENTIAL! Make some other argument, expect “essential”.

204328 ▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to Voz 0db, 5, #526 of 1673 🔗

What’s your beef with this? I don’t understand why you seem so triggered by it.

204793 ▶▶▶▶▶ Voz 0db, replying to John P, -3, #527 of 1673 🔗

It’s just the usual modern slave stupidity… which is funny and I’m not triggered at all!

If morons believe gyms are “essential”… good for them!

205120 ▶▶▶▶ OpenWindowsOpenPubsOpenShopsOpenBorders, replying to Voz 0db, 1, #528 of 1673 🔗

Voz, let me make something quite clear to you:
Any business which provides employment to local people, or provides goods and services in a way which is sufficiently well utilised to make a profit, IS ESSENTIAL.

205524 ▶▶▶▶▶ Voz 0db, replying to OpenWindowsOpenPubsOpenShopsOpenBorders, #529 of 1673 🔗

The usual slogan!

204174 ▶▶ Arkansas, replying to Voz 0db, 8, #530 of 1673 🔗

That depends on context. “Essential” or “inessential” for what, exactly? That is what we should be thinking each time these words are used, along with: relative to what?

If it’s all code for “essential for staying alive in a bare minimal existence and nothing more” then we should have that explicitly stated, as the starting point for our own judgment and risk assessment, because actually that’s a value-laden statement not an objective or scientific one.

204230 ▶▶▶ Voz 0db, replying to Arkansas, -14, #531 of 1673 🔗

Clearly it is “essential” for the ones talking because it’s their source of monetary slavery income. Other than this, there is nothing essential about gyms! Just another typical modern idiocy!

204286 ▶▶▶▶ Tee Ell, replying to Voz 0db, 8, #532 of 1673 🔗

By the same logic, nothing is essential. If you want to grow your own food, drink rain and live in a tent in the wilderness that’s your business, but some of us would like to get on with things.

204318 ▶▶▶▶▶ Pancho the Grey, replying to Tee Ell, 3, #533 of 1673 🔗

I am trying to generate my own electricity but damned climate change and more extreme weather are not materialising fast enough. 2 months in and I have had to recharge the battery from the mains to prevent it from dying.

204797 ▶▶▶▶▶ Voz 0db, replying to Tee Ell, -1, #534 of 1673 🔗

If you “think” that’s is logic… You’re just another special kind of stupid.

204190 ▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Voz 0db, 13, #535 of 1673 🔗

They’re essential for the mental wellbeing of my step-son, fo one. As they are for countless other men and women, especially the young, from whom all pleasures of life have been viciously stolen.

So are gyms essential services?

YES they ARE!

204234 ▶▶▶ Voz 0db, replying to Mr Dee, -19, #536 of 1673 🔗

If the “mental wellbeing” of your step-son depends on gyms, he has a much bigger unbalance that no gym can fix.

204330 ▶▶▶▶ Pancho the Grey, replying to Voz 0db, #537 of 1673 🔗

I just upvoted on the basis that I think downvoting is senseless and automatically upvote when it occurs. However when I did that the counter changed and increased the downvote. Sorry, I tried.

204802 ▶▶▶▶▶ Voz 0db, replying to Pancho the Grey, -2, #538 of 1673 🔗

I like downvotes, for me they are upvotes… Nothing like showing the real number of modern moron slaves that exist out there.

205126 ▶▶▶▶ OpenWindowsOpenPubsOpenShopsOpenBorders, replying to Voz 0db, #539 of 1673 🔗

If someone’s mental wellbeing depends on being in a gym, let them in to the f*cking gym. How much simpler, and more effective, than over-hyped talking therapies or useless drugs. the way to fix the mental health damage of lockdown is to defy lockdown, and resolve never to allow it again.

204243 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Mr Dee, -4, #540 of 1673 🔗

Err, free weights, pull ups on a tree, running. So no they are not.

(First time I’ve disagreed with you Mr D, I think. We’re not wokies, we needn’t redefine words to make our points, surely ?).

204321 ▶▶▶▶ Pancho the Grey, replying to JohnB, 3, #541 of 1673 🔗

But life without your personal trainer is unthinkable.

204805 ▶▶▶▶▶ Voz 0db, replying to Pancho the Grey, #542 of 1673 🔗

It’s a perfectly good reason to suicide… Most cases of suicide in the western countries, if investigated properly, would reveal that that was the reason for the suicide.

205136 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ OpenWindowsOpenPubsOpenShopsOpenBorders, replying to Voz 0db, 2, #543 of 1673 🔗

Those suicides, of people who’s joy or business was ruined by government overeaction to a cough, when the counts are in, will far outweigh the deaths than covid could cause even in the very worst case scenario. The people committing suicide mostly have many decades they could have lived for if they government had not attacked them, the few who die of covid were within months of slipping away to something else. Both in your serious comments, Voz, and in your supposedly joking ones, you are out of order.

205413 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ captainbeefheart, replying to OpenWindowsOpenPubsOpenShopsOpenBorders, -1, #544 of 1673 🔗

How I reckon zero decibels will answer this:

“The reason there are less deaths from Covid than suicide (even though we don”t actually know how many lockdown suicides there’s been yet – and there is no way of ever measuring it) is because we had a lockdown. It was worth letting a small number of people top themselves to save the lives of the 357 billion people that would be dead now if we never locked down.”

205527 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Voz 0db, replying to OpenWindowsOpenPubsOpenShopsOpenBorders, #545 of 1673 🔗

Well… modern slaves have been asking for this for many decades now.

Utter Personal Irresponsibility carries an Heavy Burden. Most modern slaves aren’t aware of this. It’s like the very small letters paragraphs on DEBT contracts.

205404 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ captainbeefheart, replying to Voz 0db, #546 of 1673 🔗

I hope that you make up to 0db worth of sound in real life

205529 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Voz 0db, replying to captainbeefheart, #547 of 1673 🔗

I real life I’m enjoying OPERATION COVID… And I’m already getting ready for enjoying OPERATION ‘THE GREAT REST’.

205428 ▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Pancho the Grey, #548 of 1673 🔗

Heh heh. Yet you got 3 ups, I got 4 downs. 🙁

204320 ▶▶▶ Stephanos, replying to Mr Dee, 15, #549 of 1673 🔗

I am on Mr. Dee’s side here. Gyms are not essential for me because I do not use them or want them. But other people with other interests do want them and use them. In the strict sense, for mere existence, Gyms are not essential; it is possible to exist without them. But the same is true for other activities, such as swimming (useful and almost essential for me since I had arthritis and swimming REALLY helps), visiting the theatre, going to concerts, football matches and so forth. There is a great variety of human interests which some people enjoy and this promotes well-being and health in all sorts of ways.
Personally, I detest football but I am NOT going to ban it nor would I support a ban. The thing that we are here for is FREEDOM. Freedom to do what we want (within fairly broad limitations), when we want and how we want. This is what makes life worthwhile and contributes to living.
Someone on this forum said that he or she is tired of people saying that that they could no longer do X or Y or Z and that one should do wants and if challenged, keep on doing it. This is fine as far as it goes but there are some activities that have been made difficult, tiresome or even impossible. How can a wine-tasting group work unless there is somewhere to meet? Passing the bottle around but keeping six feet apart (I refuse to use these continental perversions) is tiresome and frustrating. Do-able, just, but highly irritating.
I run four groups learning and reading Greek and Latin (see http://www.eroumen.co.uk ); this is all right (but no more) over zoom but not nearly as much fun. Much better to meet in person. It is possible (at present and in our Tier 1 location I think) to hire a room for this activity, but what restrictions! Anti-social distancing, possibly face-nappies (dreadful for the hard of hearing) and pestilential signs everywhere. And then there is the ‘cleaning’ and the use of hand poison. Unpleasant is a mild word and I do NOT wish it to be inferred by the powers that be that this is even vaguely acceptable.
What I am saying, in fine, is that all sorts of human activities are ESSENTIAL for those who engage in them and on THIS forum we should all support that 100%. I think someone actually said this earlier today; he didn’t like Gyms but was totally, more than totally , in support of the opening of Gyms.

204356 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Stephanos, 14, #550 of 1673 🔗

I’ll support any and everyone who wants to pursue an activity that to them is worthwhile and to others causes no harm. If you consider tiddlywinks tournaments essential, and want to fight your case in court or wherever, I’ll back you.

204372 ▶▶▶▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to annie, 5, #551 of 1673 🔗

Here here, Annie. We all need a sense of community and belonging (not much of that around these days), chances to feel that we have achieved something and goals to work towards if we are to be resilient in the face of challenge and stay mentally fit. Those things are pretty hard to come by for many people at the moment but they are pretty basic human needs.

204424 ▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Stephanos, 1, #552 of 1673 🔗

Agree totally.

205142 ▶▶▶▶ OpenWindowsOpenPubsOpenShopsOpenBorders, replying to Stephanos, 1, #553 of 1673 🔗

As someone who also despises exercise and football I agree, it is nobodys business to interfere with other people’s pleasures.

205347 ▶▶▶▶ Graham, replying to Stephanos, #554 of 1673 🔗

Only tyrannies make a distinction between wants and needs, They do that so that they can justify how they give back part of what they have stolen from you. In free societies every man and woman chooses what to do and what to buy. Every choice rules out another choice; that’s the cost of living a finite life.

205411 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Stephanos, #555 of 1673 🔗

I also do not like gyms but am hugely behind them opening up and staying open.


204200 ▶▶ Hampshire Sceptic, replying to Voz 0db, 7, #556 of 1673 🔗

All businesses are essential for those who work in them or run them and they are not in public sector jobs with taxpayer funded pensions.

204239 ▶▶▶ Voz 0db, replying to Hampshire Sceptic, -14, #557 of 1673 🔗

That’s about it… Like I wrote above. They’re just “essential” for the modern slaves that extract the monetary slavery income. Nothing more.

204232 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Voz 0db, -8, #558 of 1673 🔗

Puzzled by the downvotes. Of course they’re nor essential.

204329 ▶▶▶ John P, replying to JohnB, 2, #559 of 1673 🔗

Puzzled by the attitude. Why is he/she so triggered?

204336 ▶▶▶▶ Pancho the Grey, replying to John P, -1, #560 of 1673 🔗

The system has a fault. I just upvoted again and it increased the negative count. This only occurs if there is already a negative vote shown.

204370 ▶▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to Pancho the Grey, #561 of 1673 🔗

I don’t think so.

204428 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Pancho the Grey, 2, #562 of 1673 🔗

I’ve seen that happen before and I don’t think it’s a fault. I think it’s just the system updating the total net count when you vote.

204810 ▶▶▶▶▶ Voz 0db, replying to Pancho the Grey, -2, #563 of 1673 🔗

It’s not a fault! It’s just a balance sheet of votes…

205416 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to John P, #564 of 1673 🔗

Haven’t a clue. Whatever the reason, it doesn’t make gyms essential.

204808 ▶▶▶ Voz 0db, replying to JohnB, -4, #565 of 1673 🔗

It seems that those downvoting are the ones wearing muzzles!

205420 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Voz 0db, #566 of 1673 🔗

That’s the idea, be nice to people to get them to see sense.

205547 ▶▶▶▶▶ Voz 0db, replying to JohnB, #567 of 1673 🔗

That doesn’t work! A herd in panic mode can’t never see sense in anything.

204605 ▶▶ SweetBabyCheeses, replying to Voz 0db, #568 of 1673 🔗

This is quite funny because sometimes when I’m training hard at the gym and trying to push myself I jokingly pretend that I’m training for the “Zombie Apocalypse”. If there was actually a serious virus resulting in a genuine global pandemic it will probably lead to the mass breakdown of society, martial law and daily fight for the actual essentials – clean water, food, shelter. If that happens I’m sure going to be glad that I’m fitter, faster and stronger than most people. In a real pandemic it will be survival of the fittest!

204780 ▶▶▶ Sylvie, replying to SweetBabyCheeses, #569 of 1673 🔗

Of course they aren’t essential. Although if the exertion of the users could be hooked up to the electricity grid to generate power, I’d be more sympathetic to that view.

205561 ▶▶▶▶ Voz 0db, replying to Sylvie, #570 of 1673 🔗

Sylvie, that’s really old!

But it seems that the cattle didn’t enjoyed to be perceived as electricity source… not green enough I suppose!

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204824 ▶▶▶ Voz 0db, replying to SweetBabyCheeses, #571 of 1673 🔗

This is how I know there is no “pandemic” whatsoever…

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As for the scenario you described… Clearly a dude/gal without a single gym day in his/her life with a simple gun can really beat ALL that training!

205425 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to SweetBabyCheeses, #572 of 1673 🔗

So we should have been discussing ‘actual essentials’. Now I get it …

204816 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Voz 0db, 2, #573 of 1673 🔗

Voz 0db – are you for real?

You don’t turn up every often, normally at weekends, rant on like you are pissed out your head or on drugs and try and stir up trouble sow hat gives?

This your weekend job with the 77th to earn a bit of pocket money or are you just drunk a and a wind up merchant?

Can’t recall one of your posts that is really relevant to anything on here in a sensible way.

205548 ▶▶▶ Voz 0db, replying to Awkward Git, #574 of 1673 🔗

Don’t worry about me, fellow moron slave.

Watch for the SRF & Billionaires & jesters… they are the ones screwing you over, not me!

In the meantime…

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204153 Ewan Duffy, replying to Ewan Duffy, 7, #575 of 1673 🔗


NI Health Minister ‘deeply concerned’ about cancellation of cancer services, but not concerned enough to reinstate them. In fact, he doubles down on the COVID propaganda by stating that this proves that we need to stamp down on COVID infections. 🙁

204155 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Ewan Duffy, 7, #576 of 1673 🔗


204158 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to karenovirus, 6, #577 of 1673 🔗


204285 ▶▶ Mrs issedoff, replying to Ewan Duffy, 1, #578 of 1673 🔗


204166 John Stone, replying to John Stone, 3, #579 of 1673 🔗
204476 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to John Stone, #580 of 1673 🔗

I wonder what the Mafia make of all this

204744 ▶▶▶ TT, replying to BeBopRockSteady, #581 of 1673 🔗

You mean the government?

204176 RickH, replying to RickH, 13, #582 of 1673 🔗

I don’t give much heed to gyms or churches.

But, the point is that it is totally brainless to try to distinguish the ‘essential’ from the ‘non-essential’.

… and you certainly wouldn’t ask certified arseholes to make rulings on such a concept.

One wonders what sort of impoverished existence lies behind the motives of people like Drakeford, Johnson or Wee Krankie and friends. But I do know that they aren’t a model for anything resembling real life.

FFS – they’re innumerate at the most basic level – let alone qualified to legislate on people’s essential life-preferences.

204199 ▶▶ Mark, replying to RickH, 9, #583 of 1673 🔗

“But, the point is that it is totally brainless to try to distinguish the ‘essential’ from the ‘non-essential’ .”

Exactly. This is at the heart of the problems with government intervention in general. People in government, like experts in general, always think they know better than the little folk, but too many of the most important real world decisions are either based on subjective values or are based on immensely complicated details that just do not fit into any convenient analytical mold. Or both.

This is one reason why voluntary measures are almost always better than compulsory rules, and certainly we’ve seen that demonstrated, in spades, in this coronapanic. That way they are inherently flexible and rapidly responsive to changing situations.

Better to tolerate the odd fool being foolish, than to put some fool in charge and let him force everyone to be foolish by law,.

That’s without, obviously, considering the moral aspects.

205152 ▶▶ OpenWindowsOpenPubsOpenShopsOpenBorders, replying to RickH, #584 of 1673 🔗

Every business, or other local amenity (church… althought traditionally relgiion has been a very profitable business), which is used enough to keep going is by definition essential. I’m not much of a capitalist, and I’m trying to mean more than just in the financial sense when I say what follows, but: if the “”market”” has space for something who the f*** do governments think they are to say it isn’t needed.

204182 karenovirus, #585 of 1673 🔗

BBC R2 midday news
Some government arsewipe says, should the southwest go further into lockdown, they do not ask for additional support if they can afford to volunteer free school meals.

204188 Pancho the Grey, replying to Pancho the Grey, 19, #586 of 1673 🔗

Patience, everyone. Within a few weeks the statistics will be beyond government manipulation and it will be clear that the epidemic has run its course.
Even though we are told it doesn’t exist, herd immunity will be disobeying government dictat and the only problem left will be the government. In fact it is worse than just the government, it is almost the entire political class backed up by self-serving scientists.

204196 ▶▶ captainbeefheart, replying to Pancho the Grey, 15, #587 of 1673 🔗

People need deprogramming a bit more first. Before the Scotland lockdown (RIP William Wallace by the way) the BBC said, quite clearly “There has been 1 death in the last week”

I thought this would be enough for the people of Scotland to kick the Kranky woman in the nads, but most of them are doing what they are told.

204201 ▶▶▶ Pancho the Grey, replying to captainbeefheart, 4, #588 of 1673 🔗

Sad but true.

204206 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Pancho the Grey, 6, #589 of 1673 🔗

They will (and already are) manipulate deaths and classify them as covid. The key thing there is to focus on all-cause mortality as a % of population, for this time of year, compared to previous years. That won’t convice everyone, yet, but it will help.

204270 ▶▶ DRW, replying to Pancho the Grey, 3, #590 of 1673 🔗

We know will it. But the books are well cooked and the majority are still MSM believing, obedient sheep.

204307 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Pancho the Grey, 4, #591 of 1673 🔗

Within a few weeks the statistics will be beyond government manipulation and it will be clear that the epidemic has run its course.”

I’m generally all in favour of optimism, Pancho. But ‘Zippety-doo-dah’ stuff. ‘Fraid not.

The history is against you. Anybody looking at mortality data knew (as far as ‘knowing’ is possible) that the virus had, to all intents and purposes, f.ed off by June. But what did we have? ‘R’ numbers, a ‘second waves’ and a ‘casedemic’ to sustain the myths.

These myths are still running strong, despite data showing a normal seasonal rise in mortality.

As Mike Yeadon says, the ‘crisis’ will end when SAGE and government chooses, not when the virus ends.

Remember – mortality is on an upward slope at the moment – as it always is at this time. How do you think that will be used? Looks to me like a return of SARS-CoV-2!

204441 ▶▶ GiftWrappedKittyCat, replying to Pancho the Grey, 1, #592 of 1673 🔗

I wish I could agree but the government publishes the statistics so if they say cases & deaths are rising then cases & deaths are rising. They can publish any old nonsense to keep this charade going.

205159 ▶▶ OpenWindowsOpenPubsOpenShopsOpenBorders, replying to Pancho the Grey, 1, #593 of 1673 🔗

When we say “self-serving scientists”, I think we need to be quite clear. Plenty of scientists are anti-lockdown, the trouble is that those self-serving, precedent ignoring, fact defying, lockdown zealot fanatics (they have long sicne ceased to follow the scientific method) are the ones at the governments’ ears.

204193 T. Prince, 2, #594 of 1673 🔗
204202 Gillian, replying to Gillian, 5, #595 of 1673 🔗

There has been a lot of discussion about Patrick Vallance, He must know the truth but continues to deny it and pushes for the Government suppression/lockdown approach and we wonder what is motivating him. Corruption/money or just pure arrogance. But I’m wondering about Chris Whitty. He presents as mild-mannered and scholarly, a truth-seeking scientist at heart. A bit eccentric maybe, but in a “nice” way. But he must also know the truth. What is motivating him to lead the Government down this destructive path. Does anyone on here know him and can shed any light on his personality? What is his career track record? He seems to have popped up from nowhere but he’s in his 50’s so must have a career past. Has anybody any insights into his personality and motivation? Is he driven by money and power? Is he arrogance personified? Any thoughts?

204212 ▶▶ dommo, replying to Gillian, 11, #596 of 1673 🔗

everyone should have printed out and/or committed to memory the statement he made at the govt press conference on monday 11/05/2020:-

“Most people, a significant proportion of people, will not get this virus at all, at any point of the epidemic which is going to go on for a long period of time.
Of those who do, some of them will get the virus without even knowing it, they will have the virus with no symptoms at all , asymptomatic carriage, and we know that happens.
Of those who get symptoms, the great majority, probably 80%, will have a mild or moderate disease. Might be bad enough for them to have to go to bed for a few days, not bad enough for them to have to go to the doctor .
An unfortunate minority will have to go as far as hospital , but the majority of those will just need oxygen and will then leave hospital .

And then a minority of those will end up having to go to severe end critical care and some of those sadly will die .

But that’s a minority, it’s 1% or possibly even less than 1% overall .

And even in the highest risk group this is significantly less than 20%, ie . the great majority of people, even the very highest groups, if they catch this virus, will not die .

And I really wanted to make that point really clearly…”

204233 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to dommo, #597 of 1673 🔗

Easier still, just took a screenshot, thanks.

204709 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to dommo, 2, #598 of 1673 🔗

Or this one:

the absolutely most important and momentous quote from CMO Chris Whitty on the 21st July 2020:

“If you look at the R, and the behaviours, quite a lot of the change that led to the R going below one occurred well before, or to some extent before, the 23rd, when the full lockdown started.”

204783 ▶▶▶▶ dommo, replying to Awkward Git, #599 of 1673 🔗

why is all this bullshit even still a thing?

204856 ▶▶▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to dommo, #600 of 1673 🔗

That’s the trillion dollar question.

204216 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Gillian, 7, #601 of 1673 🔗

If he now speaks out, he will lose his job and his professional reputation will be in shreds – if you assume the lockdown loonies continue to prevail. In the short term it’s his livelihood, longer term it’s about being on the right side of history, by which I mean the winning side. And of course it’s often hard to admit you’ve been wrong. None of this is at all remarkable – these are all natural human traits, that lead people to do evil, if unchecked. What has been remarkable is the extent to which the madness has spread, meaning that the normal checks on people in power have not worked.

204261 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Julian, 5, #602 of 1673 🔗

I think that’s about right. Note that Mike Yeadon tries to stay away from motivations, despite his cutting demolition of Vallance.

But this lack of a counterweight is absolutely crucial. We have no operating checks and balances at the moment, with the MSM captured (despite some truth seeping through) and virtually no parliamentary opposition.

The only leg of the tripod left is the judiciary – and that is unproven as yet, and not an easy win.

204308 ▶▶▶▶ Pancho the Grey, replying to RickH, #603 of 1673 🔗

The judiciary have not been a friend to democracy and truth in the recent past.

204393 ▶▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Pancho the Grey, 2, #604 of 1673 🔗

Well – they were in the proroguing of parliament – the most recent major case.

IME, the judiciary are often slagged off for simply interpreting law rather than massaging prejudice.

205167 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ OpenWindowsOpenPubsOpenShopsOpenBorders, replying to RickH, #605 of 1673 🔗

As a remainer I agree with what they did about the prorogation, however seeing a much greater calamity nowadays in the form of an illegal lockdown destroying everyone’s rights, rather than an illegal proprogation messing with the rights of 600 incompetent MPs, I’m disheartened that they haven’t been proeprly opposing it. I think the explanation must be that Boris had, before the panicdemic struck, already managed to fukfil his manifesto promise about stripping all the principeld people out of the judiciary and replacing them with pro-government yes men. Plenty of RETIRED judges have opposed lockdown (notably Lord Sumption but also including, apparently, Lady Hale of anti-prorogation fame), but no serving ones, how else do we explain it?

205415 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ charleyfarley, replying to OpenWindowsOpenPubsOpenShopsOpenBorders, #606 of 1673 🔗

Serving Judges are not allowed to make statements in public of a political nature as it may leave them open to accusations of bias in particular cases. It is entirely different once they have retired. Before Blair’s reform of the House of Lords (now the Supreme Court) very senior Judges were members of the House of Lords by the nature of their appointment. In that capacity it was OK for them to contribute to debates. That would or could have been a means for them to stand up for freedom, if an opportunity were to come up in a debate on covid laws. Sadly that chance is now gone.

205482 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Sylvie, replying to OpenWindowsOpenPubsOpenShopsOpenBorders, #607 of 1673 🔗

How do you imagine they might oppose it? Their job is to consider a case brought and decide on the law in force at the time. So far no case has reached them questioning the overall legality of lockdowns. And it would be difficult to do so since it is brought about by statute, the CV Act. I don’t doubt though that some effective case will be brought to court challenging some of the oppressive features quite soon .

204343 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Julian, 5, #608 of 1673 🔗

A lot of reputations are going to be in shreds when the truth comes out. The enormous mountains of evidence against them will trap the rats in the sinking ship. I look forward to hearing them scream.

204219 ▶▶ chaos, replying to Gillian, 4, #609 of 1673 🔗

Aged 60, he gained two degrees, one in science and his medical degree back in the 70/80’s. I suspect his shares and interests and ties in Glaxo play a part. Glaxo is the largest vaccine maker in the world and they have partnered with many of their competitors to find a covid vaccine:


204292 ▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to Gillian, 1, #610 of 1673 🔗

I know nothing of Vallance as a person. I have wondered whether some of those in positions of responsibility who have privately have doubts (or who downright reject the need for all the measures) fear that any admission of overkill or mismanagement will destroy credibility even among the lockdown-lovers and the population will run riot. The whole house of cards will fold and citizens will be de-mob happy and/or de-mob angry. I think that’s probably the only way out for us now, but I imagine that the prospect of that would be utterly terrifying for Government and their advisors.

204323 ▶▶ John P, replying to Gillian, 1, #611 of 1673 🔗

What is motivating him [Whitty] to lead the Government down this destructive path.

I think it’s possibly the other way around.

Johnson is in control, but like all politicians, he needs scapegoats to take the heat if the shit hits the fan, so it suits him for people like Whitty to be held as responsible for this mess.

204351 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Gillian, #612 of 1673 🔗

oooh, I think Whitty can be and is dangerous, UK Column showed a picture of him before the 2 of them presented their chart, he had the whole cabal in a room, raging and banging a table with his fist. Vallance, Boris and Handcock were visibly shitting themselves.

204367 ▶▶▶ John P, replying to stefarm, 1, #613 of 1673 🔗

But Whitty does not have any power. He can’t sack the government.

204397 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Gillian, 1, #614 of 1673 🔗

Whitty is thought to be an angry pressured man behind the scenes. In part due to THAT photograph of tge cabal behind the scene where he appears to be putting forth a dominating point, jackboot johnson and hancock in attention. However, not only that one picture but others have noticed a dynamic that belies the mild mannered exterior. Look for body language around others. Apparently he lives alone.

204512 ▶▶▶ PastImperfect, replying to Basics, #615 of 1673 🔗

$40M from Gates.

204509 ▶▶ PastImperfect, replying to Gillian, #616 of 1673 🔗

James Delingpole interviewed Mike Yeadon who said PV was a liar.

204710 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Gillian, #617 of 1673 🔗

Look at who basically paid him during his career especially the early days on Africa doing malaria research.

That will explain a lot.

204803 ▶▶ Helen, replying to Gillian, -1, #618 of 1673 🔗

To understand what motivates/drives these 2 scientists working for the UK gov you first need to propose a theory that answers the question: What is this crisis about?

If you work on the assumption that this is medical crisis (ie to do with a virus named SC2 or what ever), as their job tiles would suggest, you might come to some conclusions about their motivations and drives.

On the other hand if you work on the assumption that this is not a medical crisis then you might come to some altogether different conclusions about their motivations and drives

Factor in that the German minister of health and his advisor are pushing the same agenda. …ditto France , Spain, Italy, Netherlands, Aus, NZ etc etc and you might come to some more different conclusions about their motivations and drives.

If you were Witty holding the buck (great reset/economic destruct/ carbon economy/crypo currency/ panopticon surveillance via vaccine/health pass) under the guise of a piddling virus wouldn’t you be furiously banging on Boris’s desk?

204207 Sasnasteve, replying to Sasnasteve, 3, #619 of 1673 🔗

For those interested in excess mortality, here’s a radar chart like CEBM’s bot total deaths by month in Ireland for the last five years. As you can see, the result is the same as the UK. i.e. a unusual rise around April 2020 and back to normal again.

204246 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Sasnasteve, #620 of 1673 🔗

Yes – that’s an interesting comparison which, to the normal mind and eyesight illustrates the normal rise and decline of a virus.

204208 dommo, replying to dommo, 17, #621 of 1673 🔗

i’m getting so infuriated by people saying “now i can’t do X/Y/Z”. the simple answer is “yes, you can!”. just do what it was you wanted to do (within reason of course) and keep doing it until someone comes along and tries to stop you. then if that happens (big if) keep on doing it anyway and make as much fuss as you can until they go away…

204415 ▶▶ Mark, replying to dommo, 5, #622 of 1673 🔗

Leaving aside the fact that so much of this is “guidance” rather than law, and the distinction is intentionally confused, wouldn’t it be nice to live in a country where you could choose to obey the laws as a matter of principle, because they made sense and only addressed serious matters?

There has never, I think, been such a country, but we were a bit less distant from it a year ago.

204607 ▶▶▶ dommo, replying to Mark, 5, #623 of 1673 🔗

One may well ask: “How can you advocate breaking some laws and obeying others?” The answer lies in the fact that there are two types of laws: just and unjust. I would be the first to advocate obeying just laws. One has not only a legal but a moral responsibility to obey just laws. Conversely, one has a moral responsibility to disobey unjust laws. I would agree with St. Augustine that “an unjust law is no law at all”.

204726 ▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to dommo, 3, #624 of 1673 🔗

The problem with that approach (not saying it isn’t as good a guide to behaviour as any other around, mind) is that the judgement of justness is inherently dependent on your moral foundations. A Christian (which for this purpose largely includes those raised in Christian cultures even if they themselves are unbelievers) will reach different conclusions in crucial areas from a Buddhist, say. It only works tolerably when you have a country that has a reasonably widely shared dominant ethical and cultural base. We call such countries nation states.

This is one of the inherent evils of diversity, that it undermines the foundations of ethical consensus.

An alternative approach (even more subjective) is the one quoted here the other day: “Rules are for the obedience of fools and the guidance of wise men.”
The more our society is dogged by stupid, prescriptive laws the more that becomes the necessary basis for existence here.

204820 ▶▶▶▶▶ Sylvie, replying to Mark, #625 of 1673 🔗

Christian, Buddhist, Muslim, Hindu, they all tend to a dangerous belief that non believers are lesser beings who should be discriminated against, suppressed, converted, burned at the stake, and so on. Most religions have a ‘be kind to one another’ sort of ethic going on, ministering to the sick, giving to the poor, sometimes underpinned by a spurious philosophy about (variously) rewards in heaven, a better life in the next cycle of being. They have similar ethical bases, and, being human constructs, the same tendency to claim superiority, oppress and discriminate, enrich their top men, in other words be used for ill purposes. The ethical consensus does exist. Diversity makes it possible to see how all such beliefs resemble one another in their capacity for good and evil.

204980 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Sylvie, 1, #626 of 1673 🔗

I used religions as simple examples of fundamental differences, but in reality it’s often more a matter of culture in general than religion per se.

Yes, there are often commonalities amongst particular religions or cultures, but they are never congruent. Some cultures/religions are more mutually compatible than others.

Religions (I assume you mean theistic ones) are by no means the only belief systems that view non-believers as evil. There are few belief systems less tolerant than modern pc leftism, which is only constrained by custom and practicality from sending “fascists” and “racists” to reeducation and death camps.

Ethical consensuses do exist, but they are situational and not permanent.

205171 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ OpenWindowsOpenPubsOpenShopsOpenBorders, replying to Mark, 1, #627 of 1673 🔗

The ethics of almost every philosophy boil down to “treat your in-group well* and its opponents badly”.
*for variable values of well, but self-consistent within specific cultures

205495 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Sylvie, replying to Mark, #628 of 1673 🔗

Much to agree with in what you say, as ever, but don’t overplay your hand in your enthusiasm to damn woke lefties. Fascist totalitarian regimes on both left and right have no compunction about exterminating their oppositions.
I wasn’t meaning to imply this was confined to theistic religions, although it maybe read that way.
You argue for homogeneous cultures ‘with a widely shared dominant cultural and ethical base.’ That is where our disagreement lies. I think that foments distrust and persecution of the outsider. Countries which tolerate and do not discriminate against citizens in the basis of creed or skin colour or simply because they form a minority, are more comfortable and easier to live in .

207110 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Sylvie, #629 of 1673 🔗

Regrettably (or perhaps fortunately, you could argue it either way I suppose) this format does not encourage long discussions. I rarely check back on old pages once the new one is up, so it’s quite fortuitous that I saw your response here.

You argue for homogeneous cultures ‘with a widely shared dominant cultural and ethical base.’ That is where our disagreement lies. I think that foments distrust and persecution of the outsider.

My experience and understanding of the world suggests to me that intolerance and persecution generally stem from division, especially if it is combined with threat, as for instance in the case of Catholics in Britain in the C16th. But even in the absence of real threat countries that are multi-racial or multi-cultural, in the sense of having substantial different identity groups present tend to end up with their politics, laws and culture organised to address that division and manage it. As, for instance, the result of early mass immigration to this country was to take away rights or free speech and association (“discrimination”) that had always just been assumed to be unalienable.

We see this process ongoing in the US and here in the form of identity politics (not just racial, and not just immigration, division can be created by religious or cultural fracturing, such as the creation of first women’s and later homosexual and other pc lobbies) and general woke totalitarianism.

It’s unlikely to end in a fluffy rainbow New Eden, imo.

204210 Tom Blackburn, replying to Tom Blackburn, 2, #630 of 1673 🔗

The Guardian: Neil Ferguson says easing Covid rules for Christmas is ‘a political judgment’.

204223 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Tom Blackburn, 3, #631 of 1673 🔗

‘A Broken Clock’ methinks

204257 ▶▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to karenovirus, 2, #632 of 1673 🔗

Happy to drive policy but slowly stepping back when it is clearly going pear-shaped?

204260 ▶▶ Leemc23, replying to Tom Blackburn, #633 of 1673 🔗

I’d love a 1 to 1 conversation with Ferguson.

204322 ▶▶ DRW, replying to Tom Blackburn, 2, #634 of 1673 🔗

They just keep wheeling him out don’t they.

204211 Geordie Sceptics, replying to Geordie Sceptics, 6, #635 of 1673 🔗

Nice to see a mix of people not masked up in town, although a bit disheartening to see almost every person in eldon square masked up.
I find it quite funny that they will wear a mask but not follow the arrows on the floor though, im hoping that is a suble protest

204222 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Geordie Sceptics, 4, #636 of 1673 🔗

They have had vast cross street banners advertising Pedestrian one way routs which everybody has ignored since day one because it is inconvenient.

204280 ▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to karenovirus, 2, #637 of 1673 🔗

Doesn’t everyone? I do.

204284 ▶▶ Eamon, replying to Geordie Sceptics, 2, #638 of 1673 🔗

Masks nuke your downward vision.

204392 ▶▶ Poppy, replying to Geordie Sceptics, 5, #639 of 1673 🔗

I lived and worked in Newcastle before lockdown, wish I hadn’t taken it for granted now as my stint was sadly cut short by said lockdown. It’s one of my favourite cities. I used to love going on shopping trips with my bf, and we especially loved Eldon Square and the nearby Cineworld. Have many places closed? It breaks my heart to think that all these places are at risk from this highly destructive policy and I dread to think that something as innocuous as a Saturday shopping/cinema trip will become completely alien to our children.

204224 Jay Berger, replying to Jay Berger, 7, #640 of 1673 🔗

I think public opinion is, slowly, turning in the UK, but not in other countries.
The reasons are the particular incompetence of the UK government(s), the realization of the general futility and the many absurdities of the restrictions, the dereliction of duty by the NHS and the fact that the UK is the only country which allows some dissent to be aired in the MSM, most notably the Telegraph and DM.
The latter simply doesn’t exist on the continent.
All the resistance stuff there has now migrated to Telegram, staying in its own bubble there.
Which makes it even more important that the public opinion shift in the UK continues and succeeds!
If it does and then spreads internationally, Britons could this time justifably claim that they have saved the world.

204244 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Jay Berger, 2, #641 of 1673 🔗

I think public opinion is, slowly, turning in the UK, but not in other countries”

Whatever gives you that impression?

204258 ▶▶▶ Leemc23, replying to RickH, 5, #642 of 1673 🔗

I was on a music forum this morning and the discussion was touring and playing live. Lots of US residents saying “not till 2022/23”. One guy said “I’d go today and not wear a mask”. The replies were vile. People saying any decision not to wear a mask was directly killing people and that the pandemic would go away if he wore a mask.

It’s honestly frightened me to read how invested folk are in masks and social distancing and lack of pleasure. It feels hopeless trying to get back “normal”

204276 ▶▶▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to Leemc23, 8, #643 of 1673 🔗

If the Danish study confirmed that masks don’t make a difference, or even s negative one, the sky is falling in for all those people.
THAT’s why it can never be allowed to be published.

204282 ▶▶▶▶▶ Leemc23, replying to Jay Berger, 4, #644 of 1673 🔗

Let’s pray.

But why have they not at least leaked it ? Leaks happen all the time and across lots of platforms.

In the end it’s going to be discredited by the zealots anyway, so just as well to get it out anyway they can.

However, it’s blindly obvious to anyone that masks don’t work. So no matter what the study says the same simple minded people will still wear them.

204293 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Pancho the Grey, replying to Leemc23, 6, #645 of 1673 🔗

They are doing it this way because they have integrity and do not want to abuse the accepted way of publishing scientific information, unlike the purveyors of non-peer reviewed rubbish like Ferguson’s model.

205181 ▶▶▶▶▶ OpenWindowsOpenPubsOpenShopsOpenBorders, replying to Jay Berger, #646 of 1673 🔗

If it supported the zealots it would have been published already, hence we know it reaches a conclusion that they won’t like.

204277 ▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Leemc23, 4, #647 of 1673 🔗

I reckon the underlying balance has changed somewhat – but what you describe coincides with a lot of what I see, with people ultimately choosing to believe in fictions like mask wearing and lock-ups.

I mean – when a GP can promulgate uncorrected garbage on mainstream television ( as in the ‘Maureen and husband interview), but a reputable study on masks can’t find a publisher – there’s no sign of revolt.

204278 ▶▶▶▶ Silke David, replying to Leemc23, 3, #648 of 1673 🔗

The face covering hysteria seems to be very bad in the US.
I saw someone walking through the wilderness outside Denver with a face covering on.

204291 ▶▶▶▶▶ Leemc23, replying to Silke David, 8, #649 of 1673 🔗

Of all the loony behaviour this year the decision to encourage face coverings is the one that visually reminds me of the need rebel most. Such nonsense.

205186 ▶▶▶▶▶ OpenWindowsOpenPubsOpenShopsOpenBorders, replying to Silke David, #650 of 1673 🔗

Isn’t the covering hysteria very partisan in the US? Trump supporters burn masks and rip them from others? Biden supporters assault the free faced?

204340 ▶▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to Leemc23, 1, #651 of 1673 🔗

I think these people have convinced themselves that sitting indoors for 2-3 years is a small price to pay to completely eradicate a virus and get back to normal.

Complete crap of course, the flu has been killing people for goodness know how long certainly for the number of years these people have been alive and will continue to do so.

I’m right in thinking that Woodstock went ahead during a pandemic that killed considerably more.

I am badly missing live music and have about 8 shows postponed until next year which makes me wonder why are they confident of them going ahead next year – wishful thinking on my part no doubt subject to gimp masks being worn and venues being open.

204375 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mayo, replying to stefarm, 9, #652 of 1673 🔗

I’m right in thinking that Woodstock went ahead during a pandemic that killed considerably more.

That would be the Hong Kong flu pandemic which affected both the US & UK in 1969.

Not only did Woodstock take place. The Stones performed a free concert at Hyde Park in front of several hundred thousand people in the same year and around 150k flocked to the Isle of Wight concert a few weeks later.

Oh – and England beat Scotland 4-1 at Wembley in front of 100k 🙂

I’m not sure that many of us were actually aware that a Pandemic was even taking place.

204402 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Mayo, 3, #653 of 1673 🔗

And let’s just remind ourselves of how close covid is to catching up with that one.

Covid19 – just over 1 million deaths in a world pop of nearly 8bn

H3N2 flu 1968-9 – 1-4 million deaths in a world pop of around 3.6 bn, equivalent to 2+-8+ million deaths today.

204438 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ davews, replying to Mayo, 1, #654 of 1673 🔗

1969, Summer of Love! my first year at Uni. Can’t recall anything about a pandemic.

204480 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Mayo, 2, #655 of 1673 🔗

And here’s an interesting question for you (undoubtedly better qualified to answer it than I am).

If we were judging the covid19 epidemics the same way we judged the H3N2 ones in 1968-9, using the same tools (no pcr) and attitudes, when would we have judged this one to have been over and stopped bothering to diagnose new cases as other than seasonal and endemic respiratories?

205189 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ OpenWindowsOpenPubsOpenShopsOpenBorders, replying to Mayo, #656 of 1673 🔗

And we landed men on the moon, no panicdemic kept NASA away from the labs then.

204411 ▶▶▶▶▶ DRW, replying to stefarm, #657 of 1673 🔗

No doubt the vaccine ID will be required.

204416 ▶▶▶▶ Cranmer, replying to Leemc23, 2, #658 of 1673 🔗

I think it could be a doubling-down by people who are, subconsciously at least, getting very tired of all the hysteria and restrictions. But instead of speaking out about it they have gone the other way and think that more restrictions and more appeasement will eventually work. It’s called ‘striving’ in Taoism – the desperate attempt to get what you want by trying harder and harder, which never works.

204478 ▶▶▶▶ PastImperfect, replying to Leemc23, #659 of 1673 🔗

We must always be aware that the SS (77th Brigade or foreign equivalents) will be busy pasting the appropriate cabal-approved rejoinders.

204268 ▶▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to RickH, #660 of 1673 🔗

Being in Germany.

204272 ▶▶ Silke David, replying to Jay Berger, 12, #661 of 1673 🔗

Dear Jay, I am German but live in GB. I get all my information from German speaking sources.
Yes, the UK is most ridiculous with their regulations, but I get the impression that Germany is quite active. At least they are more organised through Querdenken groups.
I see lots of channels on YT who are critical. And I hear about a lot of censorship from German YT. So yes, they are moving to other channels, but still try to reach an audience via YT and direct them to their other channels which do not get censored.
I believe if Germany turns, it will have a huge effect on Europe. Yes, it will be quite a battle to overturn current policies and stop the majority of people to comply, as Germans like to “obey” people “in power” , but I believe in my fellow sceptical Germans that they can win much more than the British who got very complacent and uninterested in politics over the last 20 years

204281 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Silke David, 8, #662 of 1673 🔗

I believe if Germany turns, it will have a huge effect on Europe.”

Yes – it will be far more influential than the UK, which is now on the periphery.

204296 ▶▶▶▶ Leemc23, replying to RickH, 4, #663 of 1673 🔗

Germany (Berlin at least) in late August was lots better in terms of driving this drivel into every aspect of your life. Might just be my perception, but I sense that UK is more deeply invested in selfish and cowardly behaviour.

205197 ▶▶▶▶ OpenWindowsOpenPubsOpenShopsOpenBorders, replying to RickH, #664 of 1673 🔗

Germans seem to have protested against the lockdowns betetr than Britain has, maybe because the Stasi regime is within living memory for them.

204290 ▶▶▶ assoc, replying to Silke David, 3, #665 of 1673 🔗

I agree – Germany must get out of this before we Brits have a chance.

204335 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to assoc, 7, #666 of 1673 🔗

That we should look to Germany for salvation! But why not? Germans have learned the lessons of history. Brits, apart from us here and a few others of whom we know, have learned only the false lessons of cowardice.

Let us go forward together.

204341 ▶▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to annie, 1, #667 of 1673 🔗

In fairness the war ended 75 years ago.

204355 ▶▶▶▶▶ Silke David, replying to annie, 4, #668 of 1673 🔗

Look what happened 30 years ago, thousands peacefully demonstrated in the East and overturned a dictatorship. Ok, the DDR was bankrupt, as were most communist countries who folded consequently, but it is possible.

204344 ▶▶▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to assoc, 2, #669 of 1673 🔗

Sadly I think that if most countries don’t get out of this more or less simultaneously then we will see a more conventional war.

204404 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Silke David, #670 of 1673 🔗

Hopefully the shameless censorship and manipulation by the tech giants will spur a big shift to alternative platforms.

204363 ▶▶ TheBluePill, replying to Jay Berger, 4, #671 of 1673 🔗

I have done a lot of European traveling recently. I can tell you that from my experience there is much stronger general scepticism than the UK in France, Czech Republic, Slovakia and even Switzerland. However, compliance is high, except for the Czech Republic. There people are openly rebellious. I was even told by a train conductor that I could take my muzzle off because it is bad for my health. Czechs value their freedom.

However, as you say, the big difference in the UK is that the legislation is pathetically weak. I have never worn a muzzle in the UK because anyone can be exempt, but in Europe I had no choice. You are also correct that media in these countries has zero criticism. Over there, the likes of Peston and ‘Beff would seem like sceptics.

However, I feel like the UK is now seeing the fastest shift towards scepticism.

205178 ▶▶ OpenWindowsOpenPubsOpenShopsOpenBorders, replying to Jay Berger, #672 of 1673 🔗

Britain is too late to be able to sayw e saved the world, Sweden on the other hand might be able to say they did so by setting the right exmaple and proving it worked. Even America, much as I usualy loathe them, cpuld be in a position, if Trump is clever (which traditionally he has not been), to get lockdowns consigned to history. Britain though, if we see sanity, will have done so too late to be the spark that saves the world.

205180 ▶▶ OpenWindowsOpenPubsOpenShopsOpenBorders, replying to Jay Berger, #673 of 1673 🔗

Britain is too late to be able to say we saved the world, Sweden on the other hand might be able to say they did so by setting the right exmaple and proving it worked. Even America, much as I usualy loathe them, cpuld be in a position, if Trump is clever (which traditionally he has not been), to get lockdowns consigned to history. Britain though, if we see sanity, will have done so too late to be the spark that saves the world.

204227 RickH, replying to RickH, 37, #674 of 1673 🔗

I hadn’t listened before to Maureen and husband, although I’d picked upon the item.

What a fantastic illustration of what is going on, with two individuals able to see through all the flim-flam and garbage, whilst a condescending GP can’t even get her head round some basic facts sufficient to distinguish between shit, shave and breakfast time.

Of course, Maureen’s husband is wrong.He hasn’t lived through ‘six’ more severe incidents like this. It’s probably nearer two dozen 🙂 (and more than a half dozen in the last 27 years)

But there’s this wheeled-on GP pretending to knowledge, but actually not even having a grasp of the basics when she patronisingly repeats the myth that ‘there’s been nothing like this before’ – a verifiable fiction that requires only ONS mortality figures and a simple spreadsheet to refute.

At least this incident blows out of the water any notion that the medical profession as a whole automatically know what they’re talking about on this subject.

204251 ▶▶ Pancho the Grey, replying to RickH, 4, #675 of 1673 🔗

Further evidence of the uselessness of the health service. The wife and I went our our flu jabs last week at our local surgery. Today we each received a letter telling us that we were eligible for a flu jab.
It also had an exhortation to sign up for on-line delivery of confidential correspondence to save unnecessary paper work! I have been getting secure messages on-line and by text for years.

204269 ▶▶ mjr, replying to RickH, 21, #676 of 1673 🔗

and maureens husband even quoted the 100,000 deaths due to the1968 pandemic being worse than now…and that still went over the heads as they all smiled and nodded and treated the couple as if they had dementia

204228 Leemc23, replying to Leemc23, 35, #677 of 1673 🔗

Just saw the clip from GMB with the lady and her husband V Dr Sarah Jarvis

Dr Jarvis said that Mauren was 500 times more likely to die from Corona virus. Not twice as likely, not three times not ten. FIVE FUCKING HUNDRED.

Then claims that “unless your 108 years of age you have never lived through a pandemic”.

And she has said this to an audience of how many millions ?

And she is STILL as of now. A Dr. She has not been arrested. Struck off. De platformed. Anything. No problem with her lies.

Let that sink in. 500 times more likely. And denied any other pandemic has been like this in over 108 years. Despite Hong Kong Flu.





She is an utter scum bag.

204238 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Leemc23, 9, #678 of 1673 🔗

scum bag”

Nah. Just woefully stupid and unaware of basic numbers.

But I agree that there should have been a correction and an apology for such rubbish being spouted as fact.

204249 ▶▶▶ Leemc23, replying to RickH, 22, #679 of 1673 🔗

I understand the language is direct. But if someone were to cheat an old person out of their pension, they would correctly be considered a “scumbag”. Cheating an old person out of their well rationed and considered opinion is to me the same.

I will seek out Dr Jarvis and ensure a suitable letter is sent to her.

205434 ▶▶▶▶ charleyfarley, replying to Leemc23, 2, #680 of 1673 🔗

Is anyone filing a complaint with Ofcom?

204240 ▶▶ Paul, replying to Leemc23, 10, #681 of 1673 🔗

I agree,I absolutely despise that woman.

204247 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Leemc23, 8, #682 of 1673 🔗

You can say whatever you want. Apart from the truth. Roll on Toby’s case against Ofcom though I’m not holding much hope for an un-nobbled judge

204254 ▶▶ Charlie Blue, replying to Leemc23, 13, #683 of 1673 🔗

Even if that were true it is very clear that Maureen would not trade reduced risk for her freedom – and who in their right mind would? We salute you, Maureen!

204273 ▶▶▶ Leemc23, replying to Charlie Blue, 8, #684 of 1673 🔗

Yes indeed. Maureen got a platform, which at last gives some of our views a platform.

Grateful if someone can ensure this tool gets some feedback about her 500 times. I am not on Twitter.


MBE no less !

204317 ▶▶ cloud6, replying to Leemc23, 9, #685 of 1673 🔗

Ah! Dr Sarah Jarvis, when she first started popping up on the box my sister took an instant disliking to the Doctor. Well it just shows you should always listen to your sister (she has never said why, she just had that feeling).

204361 ▶▶ tonys, replying to Leemc23, 7, #686 of 1673 🔗

Throwing out fake stats to disrupt an opposing argument is a common tactic, at least when you can be pretty confident you will not be picked up on it. Conform to the consensus view and you will not be challenged

204388 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Leemc23, 2, #687 of 1673 🔗

Yes. She is.

204835 ▶▶▶ Sylvie, replying to Basics, 4, #688 of 1673 🔗

Worth noting that Maureen has been a local councillor for 50 years, i.e.since her mid 30s. That brings you into close contact with your constituents and exposes you to the difficult choices about expenditure and benefits. And she’s had the stamina to do it that long. Good on her.

204235 chaos, replying to chaos, 6, #689 of 1673 🔗

When was last time anyone saw Carrie? I wonder how long her and fuckboy will be together? Also, why do some many people, even sceptics like Delingpole and Toby believe Boris ever had covid? I don’t. That was blatantly a scam.

204314 ▶▶ John P, replying to chaos, 4, #690 of 1673 🔗

Never seen her, but I think I saw her posting very recently. Not sure about the second part.

Regarding Johnson, it cannot be proven one way or the other. I thought at the time that his condition might have been in part psychosomatic. But well never know for sure. You just have to live with uncertainty sometimes.

204331 ▶▶▶ leggy, replying to John P, 1, #691 of 1673 🔗

You’re mixing up your Carries.

204332 ▶▶▶▶ NorthumbrianNomad, replying to leggy, 5, #692 of 1673 🔗

Carrie On Scheming

Barbara Windsor in the title role
Bernard Bresslaw as Doris Bobson
Sid James as Sir Dominic Scumming
Kenneth Williams as Matt Handycock

204352 ▶▶▶▶▶ calchas, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 7, #693 of 1673 🔗

Kenneth Williams would make a brilliant deranged health minister:

I can see it now:

“I’ll show ’em, I’ll lock ’em up, I’ll vaccimate ’em”

204374 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ NorthumbrianNomad, replying to calchas, 2, #694 of 1673 🔗

Just riffing here, but I think there’s going to have to be a scene with Kenneth and Barb as Carrie that revolves around KW saying the word “inoculate” a lot, and it gets mixed up somehow with the concept of “knockers”

204400 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cranmer, replying to calchas, 2, #695 of 1673 🔗

‘Matron! What are you doing! Get up off your knees this instant! No, I said I want see my lockdown, LOCKdown all the way until it hurts! I said Lock, not…What on earth did you think I meant??’

204435 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ dommo, replying to calchas, #696 of 1673 🔗

Infamy! Infamy!…

204455 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ NorthumbrianNomad, replying to dommo, 1, #697 of 1673 🔗

That’s it, nurse, stick the needle in for me!

204354 ▶▶▶▶▶ NorthumbrianNomad, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 4, #698 of 1673 🔗

It was an edit so I posted before I was done so I didn’t get timeouted

Benny Hill as Kneel Furtiveson
John Le Mesurier as God
Alastair Sim as Knickerless McTurgid
Adolf Hitler as Mark Drakeford

204398 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 2, #699 of 1673 🔗

Stalin for Drakeford, please. He’s a piece of extreme left-wing detritus.And, no wish to let Adolf off the hook, but he only waged war against certain elements in his own population. Stalin systematically terrorised the whole of his.

204446 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ NorthumbrianNomad, replying to annie, #700 of 1673 🔗

Agreed. Sorry, Adolf, you’re sacked. Get Djugashvili on the phone

204443 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ dickyboy, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 1, #701 of 1673 🔗

Spat tea everywhere soon as I saw Alastair Sim. you are a casting genius!

204334 ▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to leggy, #702 of 1673 🔗

No, I’m not.

204396 ▶▶▶▶▶ Sarigan, replying to John P, 1, #703 of 1673 🔗

Carrie (Boris’s other half) does not post on here as far as I am aware. Carrie does.

204399 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to Sarigan, #704 of 1673 🔗

lol, oh I see!

204412 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to leggy, 1, #705 of 1673 🔗

There’s a jackboot johnson Carrie and oor Carrie.

205320 ▶▶▶ wat tyler, replying to John P, #706 of 1673 🔗

Think he means Johnson’s wife Carrie .

204248 Jay Berger, replying to Jay Berger, 2, #707 of 1673 🔗

There is no maskless sunny place one can reach without donning a face nappy on the flight.
Only BA seems to accept our exemptions without additional tests, certificates etc..
And BA doesn’t fly to Tanzania&Zanzibar, yet.
I am sure, they could fill up a daily maskless flight to there easily this winter.
(Going via Nairobi with BA might work for the long legs, but then it’s nappy time until you’re there.)
Florida might be the next option for us ‘Normals’ once the US opens up again for tourists.
But likely, only if Trump wins.

204303 ▶▶ alw, replying to Jay Berger, #708 of 1673 🔗

Risk Of Covid-19 Transmission On Planes ‘Virtually Non-Existent’ For Mask Wearers

Recently reported were the positive findings of a study in exposure to Covid-19 when flying. A US Dept of Defence study out earlier this month, states the ‘aggressive air filtration’ (HEPA) ‘lead to the near-immediate dispersal of particles carrying the infection’. The article goes on to say ‘that it would take a minimum of 54 hours of sitting next to someone (on a plane) with Covid-19, to be exposed to an infectious dose.”

204381 ▶▶▶ Pancho the Grey, replying to alw, 2, #709 of 1673 🔗

Don’t start confusing the issue with facts. Masks are good, the WHO said so.What, OK they didn’t say so until political pressure was put on them by their donors t o ignore the evidence.

204255 Jay Berger, 1, #710 of 1673 🔗

This is what we and ‘the change of opinion’ is now up against.

204263 2 pence, 5, #711 of 1673 🔗

The Vaccine Swindle – Part 3:
The vaccines are therefore primarily measuring their effectiveness as a treatment of the COVID-19 disease rather than immunising the inoculated against infection from the SARS-COV-2 virus. This is a subtle but extremely important nuance. An analogy would be a vaccine that delays or mitigates the onset of the AIDS disease but does nothing to protect from being infected by the HIV virus. Hence the stated clinical aim of the vaccines is not to prevent transmission of the virus.


204265 Fiat, replying to Fiat, 4, #712 of 1673 🔗

Can’t believe we are all still in this.
Anne Frank was truly a remarkable girl

204289 ▶▶ Silke David, replying to Fiat, 2, #713 of 1673 🔗

Can you elaborate why you are mentioning Anne Frank?

204357 ▶▶▶ Ricky R, replying to Silke David, 2, #714 of 1673 🔗

She spent two years in “lockdown” hiding in the annex. Without all the 21st century comforts we have now. I wouldn’t compare our situation to the severity of Anne Frank’s but if we’re finding this situation difficult it helps you appreciate how unbearable hers was.

204371 ▶▶▶▶ Rosie, replying to Ricky R, -2, #715 of 1673 🔗

That makes lockdown ok then? This sounds to be your argument. That we should quit complaining because someone else had it worse? Perhaps you’d like to clarify.

204420 ▶▶▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to Rosie, 3, #716 of 1673 🔗

I don’t think that was Ricky was intending to say, but I’ll stand corrected if it was. It’s more like, our situation is crap highlights that her situation was absolute crap on steroids.

204592 ▶▶▶▶▶ Ricky R, replying to Rosie, 1, #717 of 1673 🔗

Never intended to suggest it makes lockdown okay. ConstantBees interpretation is correct. For her, leaving home would have been certain death. We arent quite at that point yet.

My point is that my appreciation and respect of her difficult circumstances has been increased knowing she lived under much stricter and stressful circumstances for two years, when I am struggling with the consequences of social isolation and my life being put on hold for 8 months (so far)

204378 ▶▶▶▶ NorthumbrianNomad, replying to Ricky R, 2, #718 of 1673 🔗

The small difference obviously being that what awaited her outside was certain death

204385 ▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to Ricky R, #719 of 1673 🔗

She spent two years in “lockdown” hiding in the annex.

But that was not mandated by law.

204406 ▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to John P, 3, #720 of 1673 🔗

No, she should have exercised her free will to go straight to a concentration camp instead.

204287 alw, replying to alw, 19, #721 of 1673 🔗

From elsewhere:
”c. 200 deaths per day. CONTEXT: there are 70m people in UK that’s 1 in 350,000
c. 200 deaths per day. CONTEXT: Covid is only the 19th highest cause of death
c. 200 deaths per day. CONTEXT: there are less people dying in UK at present than in a typical year.
Every death is tragedy. CONTEXT: the average age of those dying is 82 and 90% have comorbities
6000 people are in hospital with CV. CONTEXT: there are 2000 hospitals, so 3 per hospital
700 people on ventilators: CONTEXT:we have 30,000 ventilators
21,000 people testing positive. CONTEXT: an estimated 400,000 contracted the virus on 23 March
Daily positive tests have gone up 20 times since early July. CONTEXT: deaths have only doubled and are still negligible”

204309 ▶▶ RickH, replying to alw, 2, #722 of 1673 🔗

Good context.

204316 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to alw, 2, #723 of 1673 🔗

Yes, Good way of explaining it all.

204342 ▶▶ Mark, replying to alw, 17, #724 of 1673 🔗

CONTEXT: there are less people dying in UK at present than in a typical year .”

204345 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Mark, 3, #725 of 1673 🔗

But just to balance the grammar pedantry, good post! (And I up-thumbed it)

204389 ▶▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Mark, #726 of 1673 🔗

I like it! Have you got a bigger image?

204464 ▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Tenchy, #727 of 1673 🔗

Sorry, no. Stole it from a Facebook discussion months ago.

204472 ▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Tenchy, #728 of 1673 🔗

Looks like there are quite a few versions around online if you DuckDuckGo “the pedants revolt cartoon” and look at images.

204295 alw, replying to alw, 12, #729 of 1673 🔗

People complain about Amazon and others profits and the amount of tax they pay, yet they happily endorse restrictions which increases their profits and kills off the high street.

204353 ▶▶ Eddy, replying to alw, 2, #730 of 1673 🔗

All my family have now boycotted amazon.

204407 ▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to alw, 2, #731 of 1673 🔗

I always suggest using eBay as an alternative if you can’t handle the masks on the high street. Lots of small businesses use eBay as their storefront. That’s where I get things these days.

205474 ▶▶▶ Cheshirecatslave, replying to ConstantBees, #732 of 1673 🔗

I do too.

204301 John P, replying to John P, 9, #733 of 1673 🔗

I’ve been listening to Vanessa Beeley in conversation with James Corbett. Those of you here who know who she is will not need any elaboration. I don’t always listen to Corbett, but he does sometimes have some interesting pieces.

Beeley is among a number of independent journalists working in Syria. Beeley and others say that the so-called “White Helmets” are a Western propaganda construct and a vehicle to sugar-coat the regime change agenda in Syria as promoted by The US government and it’s European allies, principally France and the UK.

In the UK, the only mainstream journalist who has been challenging the UK government over it’s activities in Syria is Peter Hitchens.

Beeley has been telling James Corbett that the BBC is about to launch a hit-piece on her and other independent journalists in a ten part “documentary” which will be featured on Radio 4 in November.

“This is the BBC coming on as a full-on extension of state power. Correct me if I’m wrong, but has a media outlet ever, in the past, actually threatened a target with legal action?”


Beeley says that the BBC has even gone as far as threatening her with legal action, claiming that that she is a de facto agent of the Syrian government and that her journalistic activities in attempting to expose the White Helmets and their founder James Le Mesurier make her guilty of crimes under international law.

I personally think what we are currently enduring here with the continuing covid charade has little to do with rich, but merely influential “globalist” figures, and everything to do with an increasingly authoritarian and oppressive state machine.

204350 ▶▶ Eddy, replying to John P, 1, #734 of 1673 🔗

She was interviewed recently on UK column news.

204387 ▶▶▶ John P, replying to Eddy, #735 of 1673 🔗

Thanks, I haven’t seen that. Must check it out.

204302 mjr, replying to mjr, 3, #736 of 1673 🔗

sports update..

this morning watched some of the Aussie Rules playoff. Usually played in Melbourne at the MCG , due to the Victoria imprisonment it was played at the Gabba, Brisbane. in front of a crowd of 30000 (reduced from 38,000).

Both teams are based in Victoria and so no supporters were allowed to travel from there due to imprisonment. Only supporters already in Queensland or a state where travel to Queensland was permitted could attend

What a farce. However interesting that such a big crowd permitted in an Australian stadium

204326 ▶▶ NorthumbrianNomad, replying to mjr, 5, #737 of 1673 🔗

That reduction by 8,000 will make all the difference.
When will people wake up and see that these impositions are all about politicos’ egos? Karol Sikora flashed up the absurd West Ham situation yesterday where the fans were allowed to watch their team’s match in a pub, 100 metres from the ground where it was being played behind closed doors. Even if you believe in transmission between people in transient no-fluids contact, outdoors is obviously less of a risk than indoors

204457 ▶▶▶ Nottingham69, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 2, #738 of 1673 🔗

The sports stadium total shutdown is complete nonsense. The sporting authorities have taken totally the wrong approach in dealing with this rancid government, which they will pay for. I can only think the stadium shutdown is another psychological tool, like face muzzles, keep people scared.

204471 ▶▶▶ Edward, replying to NorthumbrianNomad, 1, #739 of 1673 🔗

Martin Keown on Football Focus (one of the few bits of BBC I watch) made the same point today.

204337 ▶▶ calchas, replying to mjr, 6, #740 of 1673 🔗

I am usually an avid cricket follower – plus a bit of football.

However, I have completely lost interest in these pathetic performances in front of zero spectators.

I will not watch it. I do not want to watch it.

It’s prison entertainment.

Turn the damned farce off.

204347 ▶▶▶ Tenchy, replying to calchas, 4, #741 of 1673 🔗

Are the teams still engaging in that disgusting behaviour of “taking the knee”?

204362 ▶▶▶▶ Pancho the Grey, replying to Tenchy, 2, #742 of 1673 🔗

I take it you won’t be watching the Lewis Hamilton sycophant’s show featuring the “commentators in tight trousers and masks” spot.

204384 ▶▶▶▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Pancho the Grey, 1, #743 of 1673 🔗

Certainly won’t be.

204477 ▶▶▶▶ Edward, replying to Tenchy, 2, #744 of 1673 🔗

Yes, at least in the English Premier League. I have a variety of coping strategies including temporarily changing channel, shouting abuse at the TV, giving them two fingers, or turning my back and bending over (I haven’t quite got to the stage of lowering my trousers).

204567 ▶▶▶▶▶ mjr, replying to Edward, 1, #745 of 1673 🔗

and the BBC/ Sky have to feature this in highlights coverage just to virtue signal

204358 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to calchas, 3, #746 of 1673 🔗


No spectators, stupid bubbles and muzzles

Rather watch a kick about at the park

204414 ▶▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Julian, 1, #747 of 1673 🔗

Indeed. At this rate all sport will be amateur in a year.

204359 ▶▶▶ NorthumbrianNomad, replying to calchas, 1, #748 of 1673 🔗

I completely agree. I’m a passionate cricket fan but no crowds make it utterly meaningless – pretend cricket. Better to have none at all.

204366 ▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to calchas, #749 of 1673 🔗


204391 ▶▶▶ John P, replying to calchas, #750 of 1673 🔗

And seeing them all genuflecting for BLM before the game only adds to that.

204338 tonys, replying to tonys, 5, #751 of 1673 🔗

Are the Welsh Gyms going to defy their local Covid Gauleiters and open or just complain about it?

204405 ▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to tonys, 1, #752 of 1673 🔗

This is what their GoFundMe page says:

A large number of gym owners (over 100) from across Wales have got together and we are lobbying for the Welsh Government to classify Gyms as an Essential Service for the reasons mentioned in the main description.

If this lobbying is unsuccessful we are going to directly challenge the Welsh Government on this via the courts. These funds will allow us to do that.

Are you openly violating “covid regulations” and getting fined for it? If not, I suggest you moderate your tone a little bit and consider donating to their legal fund. I just donated a fiver to them myself.

We don’t need “ideological purity”, we need people to drag the government through court, if necessary to get them to cease and desist, as we say in the States.

204339 RickH, replying to RickH, 1, #753 of 1673 🔗

Just a shout-out for an OffGuardian article on the psy-ops from the Goebbels Brigade. I find that the quality of OG is variable, but this is a really good analysis :


204408 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to RickH, 1, #754 of 1673 🔗

The comments section of OG would scare even a hardened sceptic. They largely believe the coronavirus to be an outright scam. Not just opportunism but a manufactured crisis

204426 ▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to BeBopRockSteady, 4, #755 of 1673 🔗

They don’t scare me. I think they are almost certainly right. MW

204445 ▶▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, #756 of 1673 🔗

Agree, a complete Psy op not being questioned by the masses. Masks, stand 6ft apart, walk in the same direction, rub hands with gunk, a ritualistic dance.

204360 Basics, replying to Basics, 7, #757 of 1673 🔗

Covid lockdown protest in London. Live now.

204419 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Basics, 1, #758 of 1673 🔗

Not yet got an idea of scale but numbers appear to be swelling. Streets are closed as the protestors march through. Lovely to see a Welsh flag.

204456 ▶▶▶ Bill h, replying to Basics, 1, #759 of 1673 🔗

Couple of Cornwall flags too !

Even though there is almost no covid there at the moment .

Great to see.

Numbers look impressive.

Anyone there to give an update from the ground ?

204444 ▶▶ Cranmer, replying to Basics, 2, #760 of 1673 🔗

Looks like a lot of people there – what strikes me is how ‘ordinary’ they look. The sort of people you might see in your local library, church or teashop. One generally does not see large crowds of people with that ‘look’ in central London these days.

204470 ▶▶ 2 pence, replying to Basics, #761 of 1673 🔗

Protesters, for the large part Covid-19 sceptics, conspiracy theorists and anti-vaxxers march from Speaker’s Corner in Hide Park through central London on Saturday October 24, against restrictions measures related to the COVID pandemic.

I guess they`d banned if they did not write this nonsense.

204364 Jay Berger, 10, #762 of 1673 🔗

Seems that Boris will be brought down by women who wear big brooches…
-The only difference between the past pandemics and this one is that the government has stepped in and got it all wrong.
-Get rid of scientists. I didn’t vote for them to be in charge.
They should go back to their universities and into their labs.

On the other hand:
“We totally underestimated the impact on mental health.”
This was clear from the very beginning, as were excess cancer&cardio etc. deaths.
And despite admitting this now, you are still advocating a repeat?!

And save hospitals from being overwhelmed?
That didn’t happen in March, it can be addressed by spending on Nightingale hospitals instead of on useless tests (Dr. Lee), and doctors are busy playing golf instead of working anyway.

204368 Lms23, replying to Lms23, 8, #763 of 1673 🔗

I came across another instance yesterday of someone being sent a positive CV19 test result, despite not having returned the swab to be tested (anecdotal, as are they all at the moment, but I have no particular reason to doubt what I was told)..

Perhaps Lockdown Sceptics/Toby Young should conduct a survey to see how many instances there are of these fake positive results. These aren’t in quite the same category as false positives from the PCR analyses. These are fake results from tests never even carried out. I’d like to know just how many there are and why. Do they skew the overall figures to any extent, or just an insignificant number?

204403 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Lms23, #764 of 1673 🔗

There are so many of these now YouTube and Facebook.

204427 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Lms23, 2, #765 of 1673 🔗

It’s ok, the will be swabbing the sewers soon, another reason to lockdown for longer and another scam.

204383 dommo, replying to dommo, 4, #766 of 1673 🔗

if only the most powerful man in the world was a lockdown sceptic – oh, hang on – wait a minute…

204395 ▶▶ John P, replying to dommo, -2, #767 of 1673 🔗

I’m sorry, but who are you referring to here? Trump?

204479 ▶▶ 2 pence, replying to dommo, #768 of 1673 🔗

Rock n Shield ?

204579 ▶▶ stewart, replying to dommo, #769 of 1673 🔗

Obviously not that powerful then..

204390 calchas, 14, #770 of 1673 🔗

Sometimes, when you haven’t thought about a topic for a while, or perhaps just when you wake up in the middle of the night, you have a visceral insight about something, which familiarity with the topic concerned would normally not permit.

so it was for me this morning. I woke up, and after a few moments the covid situation came into my mind.

I realized with an instant immediacy that the purported reasons for all of these measures: anti.social diastancing, masking, lockdowns, cannot possibly be true.

204409 calchas, replying to calchas, 1, #771 of 1673 🔗

When we think about lockdowns, anti-social distancing and masking, then social psychology comes to the fore.

I realize that this video might be a bit ‘out there’ for quite a few people, but I do suggest watching it.

It is only 12 minutes long and it looks at all of the llockdown measures in terms of an initiation ritual and social conditioning:


204429 ▶▶ Mark H, replying to calchas, #772 of 1673 🔗

I remember watching this back in April and it’s even more relevant 6 months later.

204451 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to calchas, #773 of 1673 🔗


204410 ianric, replying to ianric, 1, #774 of 1673 🔗

Since businesses such as shops, pubs, restaurants, barbers etc were allowed to re-open after the first lockdown, have there been instances of staff and customers falling I’ll and not just testing positive without a clinical illness or symptoms. Do you feel the reason these businesses are being forced to close again or operate under restrictions is that if these business operate unhindered without staff and customers dropping like flies, the narrative we are in a pandemic is undermined.

204468 ▶▶ Leemc23, replying to ianric, 6, #775 of 1673 🔗

To be Covid secure required an evidence based risk assessment. There is no commercial settling that can prove, without significant doubt that there has been a Covid transmission in their premises. Therefore there is no evidence that ANY risk reduction measure was ever necessary. Despite this far too many business looked at the HSE (garbage) risk assessment and copied it. I know this happened as if happened at my work and I did EVERYTHING I could to say “no – we have no evidence of the risk we are assessing”. But got over ruled time and again by the mantra of “we must be seen to do something”

No one had the courage to say “we have assessed the risk and there is no need to adapt”. If everyone has followed the IOSH / Neebosh training then none of this cult would be possible. And no amount of bullying from Governments can really create a provable risk in a commercial premises.

You can catch a virus from dust floating in the wind. That’s life. You don’t have to be having a hair cut to get it.

But if it’s the activity or the premises we are meant to assess? Either way you need evidence. I can’t see a way a premises can ever be seen as unsafe for virus transmission, and activity wise you need evidence. How many haircuts happened between October 19 and March 20 globally ? How many cases were there ? How many were proven as to where the infection happened.

204417 Hester, replying to Hester, 24, #776 of 1673 🔗

Kate Garroway and those other 2 women were the most patronising bunch I have seen for I don’t know how long, they clearly regard anyone over 70 as being senile, they clearly think it is their job to protect them regardless of whether they want to be locked up or not because they believe these elderly people are too stupid. And its patently obvious as to why, its to feed their own self satisfaction of saying look at how good and virtuous peron I am, I am protecting you, the fact that you will suffer because of my wishes is immaterial. Those women on that programme were a disgrace, they clearly thought that Maureen and her husband were some kind of quaint creatures not to be taken seriously. Garroway a bimbette with a big smile who got a lucky break on a tv show and a GP again who was more concerned with protecting the NHS, and allowing other to die, while she too patronised simpered and then made a crass joke about her own Father.

204421 ▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to Hester, 1, #777 of 1673 🔗

And her grandmother.

204423 ▶▶ Ewan Duffy, replying to Hester, 4, #778 of 1673 🔗

Isn’t the overall attitude of COVID zealots that they are protecting us so why aren’t we grateful for what they are doing?

204498 ▶▶ petgor, replying to Hester, 5, #779 of 1673 🔗

Thank God for LS. It’s the only source of information that keeps me sane. It is one of the few donations that I don’t begrudge.

204425 leggy, replying to leggy, #780 of 1673 🔗

I had my regular chat with a hardcore lockdown zealot friend today. He mentioned the Tokyo study showing 50% seroprevalence combined with a tiny IFR.
His view? Clearly it’s because everyone wears a face covering therefore reducing the viral load.

Is there anything in this viral load thing? I’m not seeing it myself, but eager to be informed.

204431 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to leggy, 8, #781 of 1673 🔗

You couldn’t get a bigger viral load than touching a surface which a Covid infected person has just touched with their snotty fingers. and then touching your nose area while fiddling with your mask. People fiddle with their masks all the time.

Why does the flu virus spread so well in Japan if masks are do effective?

204458 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to OKUK, 1, #782 of 1673 🔗

Presumably the argument will be that masks don’t inhibit spread, but they make it more likely those caching it will have a relatively non-serious illness.

204463 ▶▶▶▶ leggy, replying to Mark, #783 of 1673 🔗

That’s the argument.

204483 ▶▶▶▶ Henry, replying to Mark, #784 of 1673 🔗

The variolation argument, from my understanding, is that masks supposedly prevent/reduce the likelihood that inhaled virus will reach deep lung tissue that would result in a more severe infection.

204506 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Henry, 3, #785 of 1673 🔗

A bit odd on the face of it, because it’s precisely the much smaller aerosol particles that are not inhibited by masks that penetrate deeper into the lungs.

204522 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Henry, replying to Mark, 1, #786 of 1673 🔗

Indeed, there is much contradiction and ambiguity re: masks. The area is not my specialty, but if this argument holds weight, then surely the onus is on protecting the wearer and not the ridiculous notion of protecting those less than 6 feet away.

204534 ▶▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Henry, #787 of 1673 🔗

I practised shallow breathing when shopping throughout the spring pandemic. You don’t need a mask to do that. And you certainly don’t need a mandatory mask if true. A voluntary one will do. But I suspect oxygen reduction will lead to deeper breathing.

204562 ▶▶▶▶▶ Nessimmersion, replying to Henry, #788 of 1673 🔗

That doesn’t make sense.
Of masks donanything theyballow the large droplets to be broken up into a fine mist.
The finer the water droplet, the longer it dwells in the atmosphere before falling to the ground and the deeper into the lungs it is inhaled.
This is why colds flus are less prevalent in higher humidity.
Evidence is that Japan has a higher seasonal flu mortality than USA or Europe because of the prevalence of mask wearing.

204527 ▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Mark, 1, #789 of 1673 🔗

Well that’s what I call an elephant powder argument. We know the Japanese generally have a much better and more varied diet than in the West and a much lower incidence of obesity. They seem pretty fastidious about toilets and so on, so probably have higher standards of hygiene than in the West. How would you screen out these other factors ( that’s before we look at cross immunity).

204540 ▶▶▶▶▶ DRW, replying to OKUK, #790 of 1673 🔗

Plus they have the BCG vaccination for TB.

204566 ▶▶▶▶▶ Nessimmersion, replying to OKUK, #791 of 1673 🔗

Despite all the above they have a higher mortality rate from seasonal flus than USA or Europe, so Occams razor – its the mask wearing that is causing it.

204758 ▶▶▶▶▶ Ewan Duffy, replying to OKUK, #792 of 1673 🔗

Delighted to see reference to the elephant powder argument. When I was 12, my family moved home and my grandfather told me that he had laid anti elephant powder all around the property to prevent against elephants, to which logical 12 year old me duly replied that there were no elephants in Ireland, to which I was told that that proved it worked!

I think governments will eventually be using an elephant powder excuse to exit lockdown – ‘because you were such good boys and girls and accepted lockdown, the virus has been defeated.’

204432 ▶▶ Mark, replying to leggy, 2, #793 of 1673 🔗

This seems to be the latest front in the push for masking (noticed it was slipped into the Telegraph article yesterday about a change in opinion on lockdown measures).

Need to discuss it here to arm ourselves for outside debates.

204447 ▶▶ calchas, replying to leggy, 3, #794 of 1673 🔗

Peru – compulsory masking for 7 months now.

Whil we are waiting for the Danish study I suggest this from 2015:

“MELBOURNE: The use of cloth masks by healthcare workers may actually put them at increased risk of respiratory illness and viral infections and their global use should be discouraged, according to a new study.

The findings come from the first randomised clinical trial to study the efficacy of cloth masks conducted by the University of New South Wales (UNSW).

The trial split 1,607 hospita ..

Read more at:

204535 ▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to calchas, 1, #795 of 1673 🔗

…and Peru is top of the death rate league.

204609 ▶▶▶ swedenborg, replying to calchas, #796 of 1673 🔗

A more recent article from June 2020 by Isaacs,Sidney, also dismissed facemasks as effective against C-19.


204473 ▶▶ Tim Bidie, replying to leggy, 1, #797 of 1673 🔗

The key is, in fact, hand washing. They are very good at that in Japan and Hong Kong

‘There is, however, evidence that SARS-CoV-2 can survive adverse conditions in the gastrointestinal system. It has been identified in endoscopic specimens of the esophagus, stomach, duodenum, and rectum of COVID-19 patients; substantial amounts of SARS-CoV-2 RNA have been consistently detected in stool specimens. [ DIng S 2020 ] Various observational and mechanistic evidence presented throughout this evidence brief supports the hypothesis that SARS-CoV-2 can infect and be shed from the human gastrointestinal tract.’


‘With Sars once it was discovered that the virus was spread through the fecal oral route there was much less emphasis on the masks and far more emphasis on disinfection and washing hands. HK has far more cleanliness (than China) and they are very aware of social hygiene. And other countries will be more aware of the social hygiene (than China). So in those countries you should see less outbreaks and spreading. A couple days ago the fecal-oral route of transmission was confirmed in Shenzhen. In China, most of the latrines are open- there’s more chance of fomites being spread. But in other countries the sanitations systems tends to closed. My personal view is that this will be a bad cold and it will all be over by May.’

Prof Jon Nicholls Coronavirus expert, Univ of Hong Kong 06 Feb

Hand washing is very effective for prevention of the common cold. Hmmmmm………

204572 ▶▶▶ Nessimmersion, replying to Tim Bidie, 1, #798 of 1673 🔗

Also reinforced by numerous articles on oral foecal transmission by Karl Denniger.

204748 ▶▶ Ewan Duffy, replying to leggy, #799 of 1673 🔗

If the population built up a 50% seroprevalence on such a low viral load, wouldn’t being exposed to a higher viral load (due to being maskless which is the logical situation of his argument) increase the seroprevalence due to more people being infected by the virus?

204751 ▶▶▶ Ewan Duffy, replying to Ewan Duffy, #800 of 1673 🔗

Having thought about this, is your friend advocating herd immunity?

204430 FlynnQuill, replying to FlynnQuill, 38, #801 of 1673 🔗

Dr Sarah Jarvis, patronising lying piece of shit. Talking down to Maureen and her husband. She should be ashamed of herself. Yes Dr Jarvis, its that bad 99.98% people who get it survive. Its that leathal its number 24 on the list of ailments/viruses that can kill you. People like her and Dr Hilary should be struck off, bought and paid for by the MSN. Complicit in the lie and a collaborator against the British public.

204433 ▶▶ Sara, replying to FlynnQuill, 25, #802 of 1673 🔗

At least she was trapped by her own pomposity. She said that they could not have possibly lived through a worse pandemic than the current one, and Maureen’s husband came straight back with the numbers who died in the UK in the Hong Kong flu in 1968.

204448 ▶▶▶ FlynnQuill, replying to Sara, 26, #803 of 1673 🔗

Well, Dr Jarvis didn’t believe him as she just shook her head when he retorted. Tbh, she is probably that far up her own arse, she is unaware of Hong Kong flu. My wife, who is a prescribing pharmacist says in her experience, Doctors are intelligent fools with little common sense. Dr Jarvis quite clearly falls in to this bracket.

The top and bottom of it is, if the mainstream media today was like it was in 1969, there would be no pandemic and we wouldn’t know about it. It exists today because of the scaremongering MSM and vile social media platforms like Facebook and Twatter.

204436 ▶▶ Van Allen, replying to FlynnQuill, 17, #804 of 1673 🔗

I was going to say something similar but you put it more succinctly! Why was she smirking all the way through? And why is she still comparing it to the Spanish Flu is she stuck in a time warp back in March 2020 when we thought the IFR was 3% +. The only positive from that interview is to remind us not to watch MSM if we want facts and constructive discussion.

204453 ▶▶▶ FlynnQuill, replying to Van Allen, 2, #805 of 1673 🔗

Couldn’t agree more.

204461 ▶▶ Recusant, replying to FlynnQuill, 30, #806 of 1673 🔗

They absolutely refused to take on board Maureen’s main point. The lethality of the virus is actually beside the point: even if it kills every single old person who contracts it, is it worth penalising the life chances of young people to suppress it? No, not it is not. Maureen knows she is 83, knows that every single day she is taking her chances and doesn’t want to sacrifice young people’s prosperity to help herself. I find such generosity of spirt, such patriotism, such love of civilisation incredibly moving, certainly much more attractive than the fearful self-centredness of those who value public health over what we are passing on to our chidren.

205484 ▶▶▶ Cheshirecatslave, replying to Recusant, 1, #807 of 1673 🔗

Some of the Daily Mail comments were horrific accusing her of being selfish and spreading the virus! Some folk are just crazy. Hats off to a sensible brave lady much like a friend of mine.

204486 ▶▶ Nottingham69, replying to FlynnQuill, 8, #808 of 1673 🔗

Jarvis is horrible. The textbook MSM virtue signaler and she does it with the perma arrogant, know all smirk. Easy MSM money every week but no principle, morals or decency. Off switch is the only remedy when this ginger rodent appears on the TV.

204437 OKUK, replying to OKUK, 11, #809 of 1673 🔗

The comments on the GMB twitter thread regarding Maureen and partner were so relentlessly negative, so insulting, so argument-free and so devoid of scepticism that one suspects foul play either on the part of GMB or an external agency.

204573 ▶▶ stewart, replying to OKUK, 1, #810 of 1673 🔗

She got rope a doped.

Her original comments were all she needed to say. They were really good, heartfelt and short. It was enough.

But they deliberately put her back on and gave her plenty of time to speak. And of course, the vast majority of people can’t speak coherently for long stretches on a subject without lots of preparation and practice. So she sounded like a normal person – semi-coherent, a bit muddled, not very impressive.

Bomb defused.

204613 ▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to stewart, 4, #811 of 1673 🔗

Jarvis had to resort to lying and misrepresentation to “win” the argument. I’ve only seen snippets but like most Yorkshire folk they seemed to get their points across pretty effectively.

204867 ▶▶▶ Sylvie, replying to stewart, 1, #812 of 1673 🔗

Neither she nor her husband came across as semi coherent or muddled. They maintained their cool and cited facts in support of their views. The only person ‘not very impressive’ was S. Jarvis. I’d never hear of her before this. She seemed patronising, ill informed and completely unsuited to the job. Has she been doing it long?

204442 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 2, #813 of 1673 🔗

This must be one of the barmiest paper about C-19 ever published. There are some teasers quoted below the link. The most remarkable, it is published in a prestigious medical journal despite the last phrase in the article quoted at the end. And they don’t want to publish the Danish mask study. https://www.pnas.org/content/pnas/early/2020/10/21/2009787117.full.pdf
The pandemic exposes human nature: 10 evolutionary insights
“ At the psychological level, we describe the ways in which the pandemic can affect mating behavior, cooperation (or the lack thereof), and gender norms, and how we can use disgust to better activate native “behavioral immunity” to combat disease spread. At the cultural level, we describe shifting cultural norms and how we might harness them to better combat disease and the negative social consequences of the pandemic. These insights can be used to craft solutions to problems produced by the pandemic and to lay the groundwork for a scientific agenda to capture and understand what has become, in effect, a worldwide social experiment” “For instance, as we describe below, severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) may be under evolutionary pressures to alter human behavior by increasing our extraverted tendencies—thereby creating a conduit for viral transmission from one person to another” “It is possible that SARS-CoV-2 has been particularly successful because it is highly infectious before symptoms appear. Suppressing sickness-related behavior of hosts is one way that viruses can increase their fitness. Hosts that are infected but do not feel sick are more likely to go about their usual activities” “The second possibility of how SARS-CoV-2 could affect host behavior is by contributing to mood disorders, such as mania, that could increase activity levels and decrease feelings of sickness, at least temporarily, during times of peak transmissibility” “SARS-CoV-2 seems to have a predilection for infecting neural tissue and causing neurological symptoms, found in up to 36% of patients in initial reports . SARS-CoV-2 has been recovered in the spinal fluid of COVID-19 patients , suggesting that the virus can directly invade the brain and nervous system.” “Unless virus test certificates become common, romantic consummation will be delayed for all but the medically uninformed and the high risk-takers—trends that may, in turn, bias birth outcomes.” “With the loss of their own economic autonomy, many women will come to rely on male partners as breadwinners, exacerbating the structural problems underlying gender inequality. This may shift families toward traditional structures and conceptions of gender—a shift toward social conservatism” “Cultural evolution must be well monitored; otherwise, it will still take place but will result in outcomes that contribute to problems rather than solutions (e.g., conspiracy thinking and distrust of health experts). A key insight of evolutionary thinking is that—in contrast to the metaphor of the invisible hand—the pursuit of lower-level interests, such as short-term individual, corporate, partisan, or nationalistic interests, is far more likely to undermine than contribute to the global common good” “These are some depressing possibilities that invite a conclusion that humanity is spiraling downward to a new low point. Those who deny the possibility of social progress might feel vindicated by the COVID-19 pandemic of 2020, because it shows that life has gotten worse rather than better. But has it?”
“There are no data underlying this work”.

204452 ▶▶ TJN, replying to swedenborg, 3, #814 of 1673 🔗

Wonderful! Even if I can’t actually mount up the stamina to read it all.

One for Woke Gobbledegook?

204520 ▶▶ Basics, replying to swedenborg, #815 of 1673 🔗

So these untrustables are saying in no uncertain terms the virus plots and “can” modify behaviours in hosts to allow it to procreate. Wow! Not that as a consequence of what it is other entities in the eco system are impacted.

What a mind as good as yours Swedenborg must make of this claptrap!

204602 ▶▶▶ swedenborg, replying to Basics, 1, #816 of 1673 🔗

The only thing with a grain of truth is that the mild illness in C-19 makes it more prone to spread. Classical influenza has more severe symptoms specially with muscle pains and general aches. That might force the person to stay at home during the most infectious time. In C-19 we have a ridiculous 2 week time in isolation where the person might be well most of the time. No wonder that just 10 % isolate for that time. But the solution is only 7 days isolation and generous sick pay from day 1.It would cost money but nothing compared to the 12 billion £ spent on useless testing. The idea of C-19 giving mania or altered behaviour is just crazy nonsense.

204717 ▶▶▶▶ Sophie123, replying to swedenborg, #817 of 1673 🔗

Even that wouldnt work if you felt well. They would have to pay me a SHIT TON of money to stay indoors for even one day. I need to get out of the house and it would take a lot of money to convince me to do otherwise. More than they would ever think acceptable.

204449 Mark, replying to Mark, 5, #818 of 1673 🔗

Don’t know if this was posted here previously and I missed it, but here’s a good anti-mask piece written in September by the same man who wrote the piece on government manipulation linked by Will above the line today:

Glad to see his top reason is the same as mine – it promotes fear. And fear is the mind-killer.

But leggy below mentioned that he recently encountered the argument that masks reduce the intensity of covid (via reducing viral load, with Japan’s high prevalence and low fatalities as the example), and I noticed the Daily Telegraph article yesterday included the assertion that:

there is evidence the virus has lost up to 90 per cent of its lethal potency owing to mass wearing of masks

This appears like it might be the next hot front in the panickers’ ongoing war against all that’s good and decent.

204482 ▶▶ matt, replying to Mark, 2, #819 of 1673 🔗

They started coming out with that rubbish shortly after the mandate and when the argument that they actually stop transmission was looking distinctly shaky. In addition to the “masks are why deaths aren’t climbing, even though “case” numbers are” idiocy you mention, it’s also a particularly obvious example of doublethink, in that the thinking almond mask fanatics and immunity deniers seems to be masks encourage milder infections and so will actually help us get to herd immunity less painfully, even though there’s no such thing as herd immunity because measles.

204558 ▶▶ Marialta, replying to Mark, 3, #820 of 1673 🔗

https://themodelhealthshow.com/maskfacts/ .

This is a long video but gives an amazing amount of information …. who knew that you can fit hundreds or thousands of viruses into a single bacteria cell? And a bacteria cell is 1/40th of the size of a hair ? Obviously they come out of the sides, the bottom of masks.

Cloth masks are the worst type of mask. The research into medical mask wearing in modern surgical settings finds that even they do NOT protect from wound infections. It is also damning about wearing masks for long periods which basically creates ‘a wet micro habitat‘ especially bad for children.
Therefore contrary to what’s being said masks are part of the problem not in any way a solution.

204454 Edward Lear, replying to Edward Lear, 2, #821 of 1673 🔗

This is an extract from a piece published in today’s Spectator, titled – “the path between herd immunity and lockdown by Philip Thomas who is effectively arguing for a middle ground between the two:

How can this third way be achieved? The key is to control what the epidemiologists call the ‘basic reproduction number’ or R0-value, which is the average number of people in a fully susceptible population someone with Covid-19 infects before recovering.

Irrespective of the position someone might take on Thomas’s views, what really annoys and troubles me is the use of the term “a fully susceptible population”. There is now a swathe of evidence suggesing that this assumption is completely inaccurate. Populations are not fully susceptible because they have prior immunity through previous exposure to simiular viruses. This position, which is endorsed by Mike Yeadon and others, is supported by papers such as this one – “Covid-19: Do many people have pre-existing immunity?” published in the BMJ. Yet we here very little about this in the mainstream media who prefer to tell us how few of us have anitbodies to this virus – which may be becaiuse our immune systems are efficient enough not to need them. Instead the idea that we are all “at risk” continues to circulate but more concerningly justifies and maintains the idea that lockdowns need to be imposed. I am sick and tired of this crap and though I live in tier 3 area will not be following the government’s rules.

204627 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Edward Lear, #822 of 1673 🔗

Once again trying to create division by caricaturing the population as either lockdown forever or “letting it rip” no matter how many grannies die. Infuriating. Lots of reasonable people have been arguing for a middle ground for a long time now.

204629 ▶▶ Helen, replying to Edward Lear, #823 of 1673 🔗

When I put on the radio I hear the government and sage side of the story.

Deadly virus – lockdown – wear masks test test test casescasescases stay safe Moto Moto Moto ad nauseam..

But never a dicky bird about past years flu fatalities, nothing about the Av age of the 2020 covid fatalities, nothing to say its not dangerous to children and healthy people under 65 (proven by the Italian deaths data released at the end of March).

Data means NOTHING in isolation!

This is what the TV viewering brainwashed masses do not realise. They think a high number of cases means more danger to them..Oh no lockdown..fear fear fear fear

However spend sleepless nights for weeks on end listening to people who were once revered as the most experience epidemiologists in the world like John Ioanides, Wolfgang Wodarg and Sucarit Bhakti now being labelled as RW Conspiracy Theorists’s so getting their videos pulled down one after another.

There are at least 3 main narratives
theres the covid is very dangerous and deadly one
theres the covid is not as dangerous or deadly as we first thought one
theres the covid 19 does not exist one

Now, if it wasn’t for the MSM downright lies and propaganda and the halfway housers scared of losing their jobs then there is no question that people like Johnson, Witty, Hancock and the rest would be up in court facing many years in prison for corruption or perhaps gross negligence manslaughter

204466 Basics, replying to Basics, 17, #824 of 1673 🔗

London numbers are impressive. Also noticeable is the inquisative nature of other people on thre streets, yes a large volume of rational people are calling out the government destructions.
Protest has taken 15 mintues so far to file through Trafalger Sq. 12 or so abreast.
Pipes are being played, music, cheering chanting, flags as they head on down whithall.
People on tourist buses clapping at the crowds.

And the weakly met officers are not festooned in latex gl9ves – just the idiotic, lunatic masks.

204474 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Basics, 1, #825 of 1673 🔗

Protest soon to be arriving at Westminster.


White crap hat police just arrive – mask and mirrored sun glasses worn by one goon.

204488 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Basics, 2, #826 of 1673 🔗

You tube has just cut my stream and told me the Ruptly video of the london protests requires age verification – I need to sign in to view.

204490 ▶▶▶▶ Sara, replying to Basics, 1, #827 of 1673 🔗

Mine suddenly stopped and says “this video is private”

204496 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bill h, replying to Sara, 2, #828 of 1673 🔗

Yes, mine too.

Last scenes were a large crowd right outside New Scotland Yard, asking to speak to someone…..

The Police guarding the place were looking extremely uncomfortable, and I think I saw one official looking chap in military uniform taking a close interest….

Anyone have a working feed ?

204481 petgor, replying to petgor, 7, #829 of 1673 🔗

Basic common sense would indicate that wearing a mask whilst engaged in the kind of exercise requiring uninhibited lung action is a no no. But these days common senss is in very short supply.

204519 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to petgor, 4, #830 of 1673 🔗

Indeed. If you wear mask DON’T do exercise – you damage your body / brain

204694 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Victoria, 2, #831 of 1673 🔗

Zombies have no brain to damage.

204485 dickyboy, replying to dickyboy, 1, #832 of 1673 🔗

Protest live feed pulled down midnstream.

204491 ▶▶ RickH, replying to dickyboy, 5, #833 of 1673 🔗

Is this a good sign? The narrative can’t stand up to reality without censorship?

Note : there was no commentary to this feed, just a view of things through a lens.

204499 ▶▶▶ calchas, replying to calchas, 1, #835 of 1673 🔗
204504 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to calchas, #837 of 1673 🔗

Not signed in to youtube ruptly channel is not displaying the london protest live thumbnail.

204510 ▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Basics, #838 of 1673 🔗

Calchas’s sputnik link is streaming without being signed in or age verified on youtube.

204508 ▶▶▶▶ Edward, replying to calchas, #839 of 1673 🔗

I can see this one.

204511 ▶▶▶▶ Bill h, replying to calchas, #840 of 1673 🔗

a couple of dark Blue Territorial Support Unit vans just made a pass. This could get ugly….

204514 ▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Bill h, 1, #841 of 1673 🔗

TSG changed the mood immediately. Sinister bastards.

204603 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ mjr, replying to Basics, #842 of 1673 🔗

if the protestors make reference to police brutality in Nigeria they should be ok .

204500 ▶▶ Basics, replying to dickyboy, #843 of 1673 🔗

Cannot see other streams on youtube. The timing coincided with TSG officers in white caps moving without armour into the crowd which appeared to be prevented from moving onwards towards Houses of Parliament.

204548 ▶▶▶ Bill h, replying to Basics, #844 of 1673 🔗


I take it you are there ?

What’s happening now ? The feed seems to be on a loop.

204501 ▶▶ stevie, replying to dickyboy, #845 of 1673 🔗

Its on facebook

204505 ▶▶ Edward, replying to dickyboy, #846 of 1673 🔗

The message I got was “This video is private”.

204487 Fingerache Philip., replying to Fingerache Philip., 27, #847 of 1673 🔗

Like many other people I have researched my and my wife’s family history.
Look around at the people in high streets everywhere and appreciate the odds all our respective families beat for us to be here.
My wife’s great great grandfather left rural Wiltshire in the mid 19th century when presumably it was “grim down South” to work and live in the hell hole/ satanic mills of the industrial revolution in the West Midlands, no doubt, because half a loaf was better than no terters (potatoes)
He married 3 times, his first wife had 4 daughters then died, his second wife who did not have any children died and his last wife had another 3 children, the youngest being my wife’s great grandfather who married a woman whose grandparents came from rural Gloucestershire, their granddaughter, my wife’s mother now 95 had 2 brothers, one died aged 5 days and the other aged 21.
Please excuse all this waffle but what I am trying to say is: living was,still and always will be dangerous and nobody is sure if they are going to live another day,week or year, whatever their age.
This PATHETIC excuse of a government along with all the so called opposition parties and the advisers and experts should know this and allow the people to make their own decisions on how to live (and die)
Stop these ridiculous,pointless and moreover ineffective lockdowns now and get people back to work and normality.

205104 ▶▶ Ruth Sharpe, replying to Fingerache Philip., 3, #848 of 1673 🔗

My family were dissenters in the 17th century. I am proud to say my Dad and I are continuing our family’s trait! Non-conformists for over 400 years and counting …

205193 ▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to Ruth Sharpe, 1, #849 of 1673 🔗

Yes, in my wife’s family there was a Methodist lay preacher.

204492 Cecil B, replying to Cecil B, 5, #850 of 1673 🔗

Yep have cut the feed. They must be very worried

This not the end of the beginning. It is the beginning of the end

204494 maggie may, replying to maggie may, 17, #853 of 1673 🔗

Would strongly recommend the piece mentioned in the Round-up above by Dr Gary Sidley about the government psychologists devising the methods used to ensure compliance in society. This particularly struck me

‘A further disadvantage is that normative pressure is less effective in changing the behaviour of the deviant minority if there is no visible indicator of pro-social compliance rooted in communities. And this is where the BIT specialists delivered their masterstroke: mandatory masking’.

204518 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to maggie may, 7, #854 of 1673 🔗

And this is where the BIT specialists delivered their masterstroke: mandatory masking’.


204691 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Victoria, 7, #855 of 1673 🔗

Absolutely spot on. The slave collar. The striped pyjamas. The clipped ear. The Auschwitz tattoo.

204497 Cerulean, replying to Cerulean, 24, #856 of 1673 🔗

Shocked and angry on Maureen’s behalf by the condescending tone of the presenters in the Good Morning Britain clip. Dr Jarvis in particular should be ashamed of herself, not only for the wildly inaccurate drivel she spouted but also for her smirking, patronising attitude towards Maureen who had kindly agreed to appear and then been subjected to such shabby treatment.
Hope these ‘ladies’ get their comeuppance very soon.

204530 ▶▶ Recusant, replying to Cerulean, 16, #857 of 1673 🔗

Maureen is wise and generous of spirit. Dr Jarvis, not so much.

204795 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to Cerulean, 4, #858 of 1673 🔗

I had to stop watching when Dr Jarvis was doing her simpering/patronising turn. They probably hoped to humiliate this couple on two fronts: elderly and northern.

I loved it when Kate Garraway tried to get Mr Eames on side with her stupid comment about not keeping his wife “under control” (????) and he gave a lovingly staunch defence of her. Certainly put KG in her place.

204988 ▶▶▶ watashi, replying to kh1485, 1, #859 of 1673 🔗

Yes, they were both so wise and brilliant. I would have liked to slap that silly Dr Jarvis.

204516 petgor, replying to petgor, 16, #860 of 1673 🔗

I am proud to say that I have never owned nor will ever own a mask. If I am confronted then I will produce without comment, my printed copy of the government guidelines relating to exemptions.

The exemption guidelines are clear: no one has the right to ask any questions about my exemption, which in fact doesn’t exist. I can’t say that I feel comfortable walking into a shop without a mask, but when I do I can see that I am not alone. Though I do feel more comfortable walking into business premises, where they have a sign saying “no mask, no entry”. I would suggest that such signs are illegal.

204521 ▶▶ Cecil B, replying to petgor, 9, #861 of 1673 🔗

Why should you be required to produce anything. Tell them to fuck off

204528 ▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to petgor, 14, #862 of 1673 🔗

I believe (quite rightly) that if don’t like wearing a mask then that is a valid reason for exemption.
Simple, ain’t it.

204542 ▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to petgor, 18, #863 of 1673 🔗

That’s our strategy too. We have badges but we’ve stopped using them but we do carry a print-out of the government’s S.I in a pocket (we’ve haven’t needed it so far).

We have never worn masks or face-coverings and we have 0 intention of ever doing so. Distressing as it is to be confronted with a mass of zombies in a supermarket, not to mention lone drivers, people outside and children (child abuse), this only strengthens our resolve not to be zombie collaborators.

A couple of people posted yesterday that it feels great not to wear a mask. We both agree with that. We do not feel uncomfortable at all because right is on our side.

You never know how strong you are, until being strong is the only choice you have.
-Bob Marley MW

204606 ▶▶▶ Silke David, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 5, #864 of 1673 🔗

Walking through town today and across the market, I feel “normal”.
I do and live as I have always lived. Why should I alter my behaviour?
I do not worry about entering shops or coming close to people.
I smile at people and can talk normal as my voice is not muffled.

204556 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to petgor, 14, #865 of 1673 🔗

I’m a bit confused, if I don’t have any symptoms or illness why do I need to wear a mask to protect someone from not catching an illnes I don’t have.

Sorry, silly me, it’s all part of the ritualistic brainwashing.

204563 ▶▶▶ arfurmo, replying to stefarm, 5, #866 of 1673 🔗

Because you may be the one asymptotic person on the planet whose expelled air gets through the other persons muzzle .

204879 ▶▶▶▶ PastImperfect, replying to arfurmo, 1, #867 of 1673 🔗

Asymptomatic. I registered that mathematical mistake a long time ago.

204616 ▶▶▶ Silke David, replying to stefarm, 3, #868 of 1673 🔗

I always wonder how many people are actually aware that the face covering is supposed to keep the virus in and not protect you from inhaling it?
If it is keeping virus in, why would I wear one and make myself more ill! ?
I saw a chap today with sequins on his fc. How do you wash that?

204875 ▶▶ PastImperfect, replying to petgor, 1, #869 of 1673 🔗

Frustratingly, I have hardly ever been challenged – after all, it gives one the chance to do some schooling.

204523 p02099003, replying to p02099003, #870 of 1673 🔗

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-54673558 schools closing for years to come ?!?

204526 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to p02099003, 8, #871 of 1673 🔗

More shite from Ferguson. Best ignored.

204529 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Tenchy, 9, #872 of 1673 🔗

I disagree. With his record, he needs to be heard …

… as a narrative of what not to do. Listen – then do the opposite would be a pretty good rule of thumb.

204547 ▶▶▶▶ Tenchy, replying to RickH, 2, #873 of 1673 🔗

True. He just makes a fool of himself, so let him continue.

204533 ▶▶ DRW, replying to p02099003, 2, #874 of 1673 🔗

Meanwhile, in Sweden…

204559 ▶▶ Sarigan, replying to p02099003, 3, #875 of 1673 🔗

Was concerned until who I saw was the author.

204617 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to p02099003, 4, #876 of 1673 🔗

Oh FFS can someone please silence that man once and for all? What’s he even got to do with anything any more?!

204621 ▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to p02099003, #877 of 1673 🔗

UK column had a feature on this months ago and said it was the long term plan to have remote learning

204883 ▶▶▶ Sylvie, replying to Jonathan Palmer, #878 of 1673 🔗

Isolated remote learning, at that. A conspiracy to remove women from the work force and shut them up at home supervising it, perhaps. Unpaid.

204531 Mark H, replying to Mark H, 8, #879 of 1673 🔗

Had to visit a local “retail park” briefly today. Queues outside most of the UK-wide chain stores (PC World, Pet at Home, etc). It’s going to be a miserable lead up to Xmas…However, I’m sure out Dear Leader Ms Sturgeon will save us from the misery of queuing outside Argos in the rain and driving wind by putting the Central Belt into Tier 4, thus closing all the shops.

204550 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Mark H, 3, #880 of 1673 🔗

Indeed, but it’s ok Santa is an essential worker

204589 ▶▶▶ Mark H, replying to stefarm, 5, #881 of 1673 🔗

The fact that she believes she has the right to speak to the children of Scotland about Xmas and Santa is incredible. She’s so taken up with the cult of personality surrounding her.

204595 ▶▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to Mark H, 3, #882 of 1673 🔗

Yes, she sees herself as some god like figure now.

204537 Julian, replying to Julian, 3, #883 of 1673 🔗

djaustin would you care to give us a very rough prediction of all-cause mortality between now and say Christmas, based on your analysis and observations?

205449 ▶▶ djaustin, replying to Julian, 1, #884 of 1673 🔗

Christmas is rather close for there to be a dramatic effect – I think it will be detectable given the climbing hospital admissions (at the moment it is about 600/week over the 10-year average). I think this will conservatively double to about 1200/week by Christmas. We won’t actually know until the second or third week in January, as reporting is delayed over the holidays.

A reasonable worst case would be a further 30k excess deaths by March – about half what we saw for April to August. I think that seasonal influenza deaths will be replaced with COVID19 deaths, that improved management will reduce the mortality rate, and that if we really do hit serious NHS overload, further restrictions are likely to contain the growth. That would compare with a bad year for seasonal influenza.

BTW Euromomo only show the past five years data, as they use the five years previous to that to fit a model for Z score estimation. ONS report past five years each week, but have further years on their website.

204543 Fingerache Philip., replying to Fingerache Philip., 19, #885 of 1673 🔗

Correct me if I am wrong, fellow sceptics but concerning testing stations; if you test negative on Monday: so what? you might be positive on Friday so whats the bleedin point?

204549 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Fingerache Philip., 7, #886 of 1673 🔗

That remark needs to be censored!

… it hits the nail on the head.

204651 ▶▶▶ calchas, replying to RickH, 2, #887 of 1673 🔗

The more times somebody takes the test, the more often they can test positive.

Nicely bumping up the number of ‘cases’.

Nobody counts negatives.

204553 ▶▶ Paul, replying to Fingerache Philip., 6, #888 of 1673 🔗

A bit like a car MoT,fine at the moment it passes,could be illegal 10 minutes later.

204601 ▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to Paul, #889 of 1673 🔗

Absolutely:”This document is no proof of roadwortheness”

204561 ▶▶ DRW, replying to Fingerache Philip., #890 of 1673 🔗

Get the scary numbers, of course.

204599 ▶▶ Silke David, replying to Fingerache Philip., 1, #891 of 1673 🔗

Like the DBS check.
Maybe that’s why the test numbers are so high, many people getting tested over and over (and not only in healthcare setting) as they are brainwashed.

204623 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Fingerache Philip., 1, #892 of 1673 🔗

Even if you do test positive, it doesn’t change anything.

204545 Dan Clarke, replying to Dan Clarke, 2, #893 of 1673 🔗

Going to Athens, the DM, says its all back to normal

204560 ▶▶ calchas, replying to Dan Clarke, 1, #894 of 1673 🔗
204622 ▶▶▶▶ calchas, replying to 2 pence, 4, #896 of 1673 🔗


masking, distancing,plexiglass etc..

..is not what I call normal.

Greece is just another frickin’ room in the same frickin’ asylum.

204564 Ricky R, 3, #897 of 1673 🔗

Just heard something that has said the government are giving the people “one last chance” to avoid a national lockdown. Obviously they can play fast and loose with the numbers for whatever outcome they want. Is there any truth in this or is it just dodgy word of mouth.

204568 Sir Patrick Vaccine, #898 of 1673 🔗

Mahyar Live From Anti-Lockdown March


204571 Leemc23, replying to Leemc23, 9, #899 of 1673 🔗

Just headed out to a Garden Centre. Got here and their is a huge cue – outdoors – to enter. I assume due to social distancing and limited numbers. I have refused to cue up and refused to go into store (already refuse masks) my wife and kids have just gone off having adopted a “we drove all this way to go in”. I might be wrong but I refused to be part of this. Mostly older people curing outside in the cold for what reason ? Fucking hell.

204587 ▶▶ DavidC, replying to Leemc23, #900 of 1673 🔗

I believe the word you intended to use is ‘queue’, not ‘cue’.


205326 ▶▶ Monty Bodkin, replying to Leemc23, #901 of 1673 🔗


204575 Riffman, replying to Riffman, 34, #902 of 1673 🔗

God bless 83 year old Maureen. What pissed me off is that ever smug and all knowing Sarah Jarvis constantly smiling ‘at the poor old dear’. Condescending cow!

204576 ▶▶ Catherine Young, replying to Riffman, 14, #903 of 1673 🔗

My thoughts exactly. Hideous woman.

204577 ▶▶ Leemc23, replying to Riffman, 7, #904 of 1673 🔗


In case you get the urge to give her some “feedback” on her “500 times more likely” claim.

204624 ▶▶▶ Riffman, replying to Leemc23, 2, #905 of 1673 🔗

Unfortunately not a Tweeter, if anybody else could do so be much appreciated

204773 ▶▶▶▶ Basileus, replying to Riffman, 2, #906 of 1673 🔗


204859 ▶▶▶▶▶ Riffman, replying to Basileus, 2, #907 of 1673 🔗

Thank you 🙏

204600 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Riffman, 29, #908 of 1673 🔗

We have just watched the clip again – my son seemed to have a version where Mr Eames responded at the very end (not sure if this was cut from the final online version?) and put the very condescending Dr Jarvis in her place. I really hate these middle class, metropolitan pseudo intellectual women. I have come across far too many in my life, populating medicine and journalism in particular. I can see what they are doing, and I speak as someone who achieved educationally, and from a business perspective, at a much higher level than any of them, accent, class and all. Shame on them. God bless Maureen and her husband for speaking truth to power.

204769 ▶▶ Basileus, replying to Riffman, 3, #909 of 1673 🔗

Jarvis has a twitter page. Just enjoyed liking all the negative comments: there were a lot.

204823 ▶▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to Basileus, 2, #910 of 1673 🔗

But her profile pic, with her head tilted sideways shows empathy 🤮

204578 Leemc23, 1, #911 of 1673 🔗

……But you just killed a Granny

204580 Cecil B, 7, #912 of 1673 🔗

I suspect the march will be back bigger and better next week

They must realise that the game is up now

204619 ▶▶ Mark H, replying to Leemc23, #914 of 1673 🔗

We need a link to download that video

204747 ▶▶▶ Marialta, replying to Mark H, #915 of 1673 🔗

i went direct to Gresham College YouTube you will see at the beginning of the lecture Whitty states that in six months more will be known and much of what he says will be superseded. Get out of jail free card 😳

204584 Leemc23, replying to Leemc23, 7, #916 of 1673 🔗

Matt Wankcock will be around to let you know you killed his made up granny.

204620 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Leemc23, 2, #917 of 1673 🔗

It would be interesting to speak to his granny.

204585 The Spingler, replying to The Spingler, 31, #918 of 1673 🔗

Why do I get a perverse satisfaction when talking to a lockdown zealot/covid fanatic and inform them of some part of lockdown measures we’re not following?

Out walking the dogs earlier we bumped into – not literally obviously as they gave us a very very wide berth – a family we know from our little valley. Haven’t seen much of them this year as early on they were quite clearly terrified of the virus, despite being a couple in their late thirties with a 10 year old kid, and would be obeying lockdown rules to the absolute letter. Anyway exchanged a few pleasantries today then the wife said something about us having a nice relaxing next two weeks at home in lockdown (we’re in Stalag Wales). My OH immediately said, oh no, we’re not bothering with any of that this time, I’ll be going out to work as normal, got loads of work on. I jumped in with ‘yeah he hates working from home because we annoy each other too much’. The wife sucked in her lips like she’d swallowed a lemon. She didn’t say another word and off they went, no doubt cursing the both of us and blaming us for killing some Granny somewhere. But why did it feel so good?

Side note – I do feel sorry for their young lad. Seeing your parents terrified and cowering at that age must be so damaging mentally and for his development as he gets older. At that age I believed my parents could do anything, solve everything and keep me safe.

204608 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to The Spingler, 13, #919 of 1673 🔗

Why can’t people like that just sit in their houses, order Tesco deliveries for the rest of their lives and let everyone else get on with it?

I know I know, killing grannies.

204649 ▶▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to A. Contrarian, 5, #920 of 1673 🔗

And grandad’s, lets keep it pc

204678 ▶▶ annie, replying to The Spingler, 4, #921 of 1673 🔗

My parents could and did.
Fuck the Stalinist lockdown. No more kowtowing.

204588 John P, replying to John P, 5, #922 of 1673 🔗
204635 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to John P, 1, #923 of 1673 🔗


204636 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to John P, #924 of 1673 🔗

Wonderful, sign him up.

204673 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to stefarm, #925 of 1673 🔗

Annue’s gold medal!

204594 Victoria, replying to Victoria, 7, #926 of 1673 🔗

This is an appeal on behalf of British MPs


204612 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Victoria, 2, #927 of 1673 🔗


204644 ▶▶ Melangell, replying to Victoria, 1, #928 of 1673 🔗

Brilliant – thanks for posting!

204764 ▶▶ Basileus, replying to Victoria, #929 of 1673 🔗

Can we set up a crowd funding page for them?

204789 ▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to Victoria, #930 of 1673 🔗

Haha nailed it!

204598 Cheezilla, 13, #931 of 1673 🔗

Saw Save out Rights footage of the march earlier. Lots of people and super noisy. Feed lost unfortunately.

Live footage now from Stand Up X: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O2sd8V59Y60&fbclid=IwAR0Sy6YB6Rku1oew4baiRaoGr6yq8d-W6dm4p5wfrWOUX9bIi9jbo0-NBas

Just want to express my gratitude to all who are taking part.

204604 Mr Jim McGregor, replying to Mr Jim McGregor, 47, #932 of 1673 🔗

Went to local pub last night with my mate. We started outside and then moved in to a table. Staff were fine with us and know we’re from different households. Fuck this Tier 2 shite that makes you feel like a criminal and that you’re threatening a local business even as you’re supporting them. Pub was quite busy with mostly couples, but half full for a Friday night. You can feel the simmering resentment among the punters, half of us hoping the police would turn up so we could tell them to fuck off and go and arrest some real criminals. I’m normally a mild mannered, law abiding citizen, but this is what’s happening to us.

204611 ▶▶ steph, replying to Mr Jim McGregor, 13, #933 of 1673 🔗

Absolutely true. I haven’t broken the law / regulations yet but when I need to I will. I know enough people who have already done so and I say well done.

204628 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Mr Jim McGregor, 5, #934 of 1673 🔗

A pub, what’s that???

Good work btw

204669 ▶▶ annie, replying to Mr Jim McGregor, 11, #935 of 1673 🔗

I abide by law.
Not tinpot tyranny.

204614 The Mask Exempt Covid Marshall, replying to The Mask Exempt Covid Marshall, 14, #936 of 1673 🔗

Afternoon, all. Just finished my first shift as a Covid Marshall!

204983 ▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to The Mask Exempt Covid Marshall, 1, #937 of 1673 🔗

Did you borrow that from Peter Hitchens?

204615 Tom Blackburn, replying to Tom Blackburn, 3, #938 of 1673 🔗
204826 ▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to Tom Blackburn, #939 of 1673 🔗

Lots of good sceptical response!

204625 Lms23, #940 of 1673 🔗

Mahyar Live From Anti-Lockdown March

Terrible sound initially but improves after 1 minute or so.
Earlier live video that was linked here was removed.
This was posted about 16 minutes ago.

204626 Victoria, replying to Victoria, 22, #941 of 1673 🔗


Social Engineering Is in Full Swing
The technocratic system also requires social engineering, which relies on massive data collection and the use of artificial intelligence. Technocrats have silently and relentlessly pushed this agenda forward ever since the 1930s, and signs of its implementation are becoming increasingly visible.

In a few short months, we’ve been dramatically shifted from a state of freedom to a state of totalitarianism, and the way that was done was through social engineering, which of course involves psychological manipulation.

Censoring and propaganda are but two strategies that shape and mold a population. Psychiatry professor Albert Biderman’s “chart of coercion” also includes the following methods , all of which can be clearly related to the COVID-19 response:

  • Isolation techniques — Quarantines, social distancing, isolation from loved ones and solitary confinement
  • Monopolization of perception — Monopolizing the 24/7 news cycle, censoring dissenting views and creating barren environments by closing bars, gyms and restaurants
  • Degradation techniques — Berating, shaming people (or even physically attacking) those who refuse to wear masks or social distance, or generally choose freedom over fear
  • Induced debility — Being forced to stay at home and not be able to exercise or socialize
  • Threats — Threatening with the removal of your children, prolonged quarantine, closing of your business, fines for noncompliance with mask and social distancing rules, forced vaccination and so on
  • Demonstrating omnipotence/omniscience — Shutting down the whole world, claiming scientific and medical authority
  • Enforcing trivial demands — Examples include family members being forced to stand 6 feet apart at the bank even though they arrived together in the same car, having to wear a mask when you walk into a restaurant, even though you can remove it as soon as you sit down, or having to wear a mask when walking alone on the beach
  • Occasional indulgence — Reopening some stores and restaurants but only at a certain capacity, for example. Part of the coercion plan is that indulgences are always taken away again, though, and they’re already saying we may have to shut down the world again this fall [Autumn]


204631 ▶▶ calchas, replying to Victoria, 3, #942 of 1673 🔗


204634 ▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to Victoria, 5, #943 of 1673 🔗

So our own democratic government is allowing this, other governments are not. People are waking up to what they are pushing us into

205023 ▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to Dan Clarke, 1, #944 of 1673 🔗

I wouldn’t assume that other governments are not doing the same sorts of things.

204643 ▶▶ Cecil B, replying to Victoria, 4, #945 of 1673 🔗

When does it become legal to use force to overcome this oppression?

204664 ▶▶▶ calchas, replying to Cecil B, 3, #946 of 1673 🔗

Remains me of Lenin mocking the Germans. Hr said:

“Before they storm a railway station during a revolution they first buy platform tickets”

205071 ▶▶▶ Binra, replying to Cecil B, #947 of 1673 🔗

If you are being attacked you have a legal right to a proportionate defence.
The manner in which you defend yourself needs to be aligned in your Spirit – in my view, such as to use force as last resort and to bring the conflict to a process of communication.
If you are in no position to use force, you may withdraw cooperations such as to say NO in whatever means or withholding of cooperation is available to you.
To defend your Spirit is to maintain alignment in Spirit or if your prefer the term ‘conscious alignment in Purpose’. Bear in mind subjection and captivity in the world is not a new thing.

204633 jim j, 6, #948 of 1673 🔗

Never before has so much been owed to so many, by so few.
2 million “vulnerable”, 65 million therefore not vulnerable.

204638 Telpin, 15, #949 of 1673 🔗

Just read Jamie Franklin’s posting on today’s update. Made me cry. We’re in danger of forgetting the most precious things ghat make life worth living. I feel so, so very sorry for the young who won’t even have these memories to look back on. And that simply enraged me. I don’t think I can forgive those imposing this misery , particularly as they have the same data as I do. No one is following any science, just doubling down to save their own political skins. Despicable. Felt slightly better by donating to the Welsh Gyms cause.

204640 Melangell, replying to Melangell, 3, #950 of 1673 🔗

I just logged on in order to share the same link as Victoria – essential, if utterly chilling reading: https://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2020/10/24/securing-obedience-through-fear.aspx#commentfocus

204716 ▶▶ Marialta, replying to Melangell, 1, #951 of 1673 🔗

Mercola certainly has a lot of alternative products to sell on his website and Is highly controversial – put me off

204964 ▶▶▶ Melangell, replying to Marialta, #952 of 1673 🔗

Well he’s been going for years and a lot of what he recommended back then is now fairly mainstream, eg fermented products being good for the microbiome. And yes, he does the whole American hard-sell number – which is why I ended up unsubscribing from his newsletter years ago. BUT that doesn’t detract from his laudable work exposing the Great Reset case.

204974 ▶▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to Marialta, #953 of 1673 🔗

I will say 2 things about Mercola: 1) I have bought things in the past and I’ve always been happy with the products, and 2) he does not restrict access to his site and it’s free for anyone to peruse. He does sell products as a means of keeping his site available to all and there is no pressure to buy anything. He may be controversial, but compared to the skeptical views most of us hold now he is pretty mainstream! As with most sites, we won’t agree with everything but he does provide lots of useful information.

205096 ▶▶▶ Binra, replying to Marialta, #954 of 1673 🔗

You don’t have to buy anything or even look at his products to evaluate the information – along with innumerable leaders of their fields who he has interviewed. The information is made freely available.

I am from the UK where adverts, marketing and selling is targetted to ‘healthcare professionals’ and the NHS so we are insulated from awareness of market forces but NOT from the consequence of market forces – and the covid ‘controversy’ certainly has market forces within its active expression.

If you suckle the medical mainstream then you have been delivered unto evil. You will deeply desire ‘alternatives’ to the trap being prepared for you.

On the other hand, there will be no controversy in the Church of the Virus.
So maybe this new religion is for you?

Mercola may be a ‘health nut’ for ‘health nuts’ – but he is open minded rather than pharmaceutically framed.

Was there anything in the article linked that made you ‘smell a rat’ or deceit?
Or which you can state a case to counter?

Obedience training is conditioning the target to accept and follow orders rather than think for themselves. At one end of the scale you can be trained as a soldier in the Program – and at the other you can be conditioned to slavery and subjection. But they are both slaves to fear.

205972 ▶▶▶ Victoria, replying to Marialta, #955 of 1673 🔗

This is a typical statement made by the forces that want to censor him labelling him as controversial and referring to his ‘audacity’ to sell products – and you are repeating it. Shame on you!!

No income, no free health information. No advertisements on his site. No request for donations. None of his articles refer to any of his products. In fact, many people that comment on his articles do not even know that he sells products.

All his articles are properly referenced. Many of his articles over the years have been highlighting the same issues as what we get from lockdownsceptics (LS) on a daily basis. LS depends on donations to survive. No-one can survive without money.

204642 Cecil B, replying to Cecil B, 4, #956 of 1673 🔗

This twat Llewelyn can go on the list

The police in Wales now have a power to enter your home by force even if they only think you might be about to break the regulations



204646 ▶▶ Telpin, replying to Cecil B, 6, #957 of 1673 🔗

Someone has to judicially review this – remember right of family life ( and privacy ) is a human right. Are we now pursuing thought crimes? Is Drakeford trying to outdo 1984? People of Wales – WAKE UP!! Can you believe my brothers in Wales reporting that up to now they thought he was adopting a ‘ measured approach’. FFS

204653 ▶▶ annie, replying to Cecil B, 3, #958 of 1673 🔗

Minority Report.

204656 ▶▶ DRW, replying to Cecil B, 1, #959 of 1673 🔗

Britain’s Victoria.

204662 ▶▶ annie, replying to Cecil B, 2, #960 of 1673 🔗

They had it in the last incarceration too. Don’t think it was used.
Gross , damnable violation of common law and human rights. . Let them try. Let their name stink for eternity.

204668 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to annie, 2, #961 of 1673 🔗

PS. I notice that all BBC Wales news stories now forbid comments. The sceptical ones were stacking up. Couldn’t risk it.

204753 ▶▶▶▶ Tenchy, replying to annie, #962 of 1673 🔗

Well, the BBC is effectively The Guardian of television, so it’s only to be expected. Funny how left-wing organs are very much into censorship.

204774 ▶▶▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to annie, #963 of 1673 🔗

Soon they’ll arrest anyone for thinking about leaving sceptical comments

204645 Julian, replying to Julian, 3, #964 of 1673 🔗

Masks: We think the evidence for harm outweighs the evidence for benefit (if there is any) or think that someone needs to provide evidence they do work before we undertake a medical intervention.

But let’s say that it could be established they DID work, and let’s say they amazingly stopped the spread of flu and covid or whatever. At what point would people feel that compulsion was acceptable?

204647 ▶▶ dhpaul, replying to Julian, 11, #965 of 1673 🔗


204679 ▶▶▶ leggy, replying to dhpaul, 10, #966 of 1673 🔗

Precisely. If there was a lethal virus doing the rounds, I would be wearing a military grade respirator when I left the house, not an old sock.

204665 ▶▶ dpj, replying to Julian, 6, #967 of 1673 🔗

The fact that thousands of people have been dying every year of infectious diseases at least as dangerous as covid (ie colds, flu, pneumonia) that will be passed on in a similar way and no one has ever thought that wearing masks might help until now confirms to me that the whole masks issue is just a political thing.
I still remain confident that no proper study by a neutral organisation will come to conclusion that, outside of certain hospital situations, the benefits of wearing masks outweighs the potential health issues.

204675 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to dpj, 1, #968 of 1673 🔗

Oh yes indeed – my question is hypothetical. It’s a similar question to whether some kind of legally enforced “lockdown” would ever be justifiable, in the face of a truly deadly pandemic.

Regarding masks, I am really trying to gauge views on the value people place on the freedom to have an uncovered face, avoid the health side effects of masks, and the psychological aspect.

204689 ▶▶▶▶ watashi, replying to Julian, 4, #969 of 1673 🔗

If it were truly deadly. I would still take my chances and go maskless. I like breathing too much. I’ve just been sat in a room with 12 others (all of whom were muzzled) . They all appeared to be completely brainwashed, borderline nuts and all a little concerned for my ‘safety’. It was pretty hilarious.

204707 ▶▶▶▶ dpj, replying to Julian, #970 of 1673 🔗

Yes, I have still never worn a mask. As well as my confidence that I am not killing any grannies by not doing so and personally it’s healthier not to as a christian there are various bible verses that describe covering faces as a negative thing and throughout history they have been used as a punishment eg Jews in WW2, prisoners at Gauntanamo etc.

204723 ▶▶▶▶▶ davews, replying to dpj, 1, #971 of 1673 🔗

I have tried wearing a mask in so far as I now know the problems. Trying to find my way round Tesco with steamed up glasses then struggling (and out of breath) outside trying to distangle them from my hearing aids was enough for me to realise they are a bad idea so back to my lanyard now.
Just now family heading towards Tesco already masked up in the pouring rain. Then a chap driving from our estate masked up alone in his car. Nonsense but somehow they feel it is their duty…

204759 ▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to Julian, 4, #972 of 1673 🔗

Well I’ve worn a mask earlier today. A proper sealed filter job, for sanding resin. If I didn’t and that shit got into my lungs/bloodstream I’d be fucked. So, yeah if benefits outweigh the harm.

204772 ▶▶ Mark, replying to Julian, 3, #973 of 1673 🔗

let’s say that it could be established they DID work, and let’s say they amazingly stopped the spread of flu and covid or whatever. At what point would people feel that compulsion was acceptable?

I’d say there’s a basic three step process to deciding to implement any major coercive policy (this is what the government should have gone through prior to lockdown as well):

  1. Is there a benefit, and if so, how big is it?
  2. What are the costs, and how do they weigh against the benefits established in step 1.
  3. Is this measure ethically justifiable, given the costs versus benefits outcome? (In the real world, there are few steps that can just be ruled out in any circumstances. Necessity might be the creed of tyrants, but it is also sometimes the responsibility of rulers).

So in the hypothetical situation you set out, step 1 is complete and they would move on to step 2, at which point mass coercive mask wearing would imo fail because it promotes fear, which is arguably the single most costly and dangerous thing in this coronapanic.

Finally it would fail step 3 anyway, because ending the spread of covid19 isn’t important enough to impose coercive and intrusive rules on everyone.

204777 ▶▶ AndrewNYC, replying to Julian, 6, #974 of 1673 🔗

Three points. Even if masks work (unlikely) they need to go. The pandemic ends when masks come off and can’t end until masks come off. Any thinking person now understands that the pandemic response is far worse to the world than the virus itself. In other words, masks equal fear which prolongs the pandemic which furthers the worldwide destruction we are causing. This needs to be our fight, not whether or not masks work.

Second,we are screwing up (de-training) our immune systems. If we reduce our body’s ability to fight normal viruses, and then if what used to be a normal (less lethal) virus does get through the mask, we will be much more prone to serious illness and death. I fear this is happening now to young children, who’s immune systems aren’t being trained properly.

Thirdly, we are vastly underestimating the downsides of masks, including the loss of normal humanity and human interaction (smiling, communication, etc.) I would argue compulsion is not worth destroying humanity for ANY lethality. Saying there is no downside to masks (which almost all pro-mask people say) is the equivalent of saying that water-boarding isn’t torture (because it doesn’t risk life or cause long-term physical damage). For most of us, masks are literally torture.

204648 Smelly Melly, replying to Smelly Melly, 8, #975 of 1673 🔗

I realise few people on this site wear masks, but I’d encourage people to send there used masks to Johnson. No stamp required.

204681 ▶▶ watashi, replying to Smelly Melly, 3, #976 of 1673 🔗

Great idea. I’ve been wondering what to do with the literally dozens of face nappies I find when out walking.

204706 ▶▶▶ Ewan Duffy, replying to watashi, #977 of 1673 🔗

Would be an excellent idea if a mask was worn.

In 2005, a one man campaign in Ireland led to 400 nappies (unused) being sent to the Government in protest at legislation which banned below cost selling. Co-incidentally, the relevant government minister was Micheál Martin, who is now the Taoiseach!


204971 ▶▶▶ captainbeefheart, replying to watashi, 1, #978 of 1673 🔗

Don’t touch them! You’ll die or kill someone else!

204654 leggy, replying to leggy, 15, #979 of 1673 🔗

Still a conspiracy theory?

204661 ▶▶ Basics, replying to leggy, 5, #980 of 1673 🔗


204671 ▶▶▶ leggy, replying to Basics, 1, #981 of 1673 🔗

Nothing more…

204687 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to leggy, 2, #982 of 1673 🔗

Nothing at all. Just a plain old fashioned bungle….

204682 ▶▶▶ calchas, replying to Basics, 3, #983 of 1673 🔗

Trying to cover up their bungling by pretending there’s some big plan.

204688 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to calchas, 3, #984 of 1673 🔗

That’s reverse ferret cunning! I like the thinking!

204713 ▶▶▶▶ DRW, replying to calchas, 1, #985 of 1673 🔗

Wanksock was on about it back in 2017.

204693 ▶▶ KBuchanan, replying to leggy, 3, #986 of 1673 🔗

Yet still 90% of the numpties in the UK would need this nailed to their forehead before they finally GET IT!

204735 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to leggy, 3, #987 of 1673 🔗

Yes, especially the made up stuff people like to add to it, or wild speculation lightly disguised as fact.

204766 ▶▶▶ leggy, replying to Nick Rose, 1, #988 of 1673 🔗


204850 ▶▶ Biker, replying to leggy, 2, #989 of 1673 🔗

We’re all meant to care about the planet. I don’t give two fucks about the planet. Burn the motherfucker to the ground, sook all the petrol we can find out the earth and burn it in my 1400 Kawasaki. Who really gives two fucks about what happens in the Sudan or in some pisshole country in central America? Who gives a shit about the French, sure we need to watch them and the Germans, these fuckers still haven’t forgiven us for beating their ass over and over again, that and how we make great music and the Germans and the french don’t. But i don’t want to be part of the one world bullshit. These people are insane with their Spectre levels of world domination.

204915 ▶▶ Sylvie, replying to leggy, #990 of 1673 🔗

Lots of people have spent their entire working lives doing ‘horizon scanning’, strategic planning, and suchlike, often trying to foretell the future for the benefit of businesses. Like Shell, for example. Hardly surprising if they call some trends right. But that’s not a conspiracy to make them happen.

204657 Basics, replying to Basics, 9, #991 of 1673 🔗

TSG with helmets have arrived in trafalger sq there are tiny numbers of lefter over criwd chatting, maybe 100 people. TSG arrive in a group with helmets off. It appears a mob of 50 normal hat police are slow walking the people out of the squate.
Sputnik showing tsg have made an arrest there is no protest or semblance of one happening in any fashion. The police are all over the square standing in groups looking like idiots.

204658 ▶▶ leggy, replying to Basics, 4, #992 of 1673 🔗

That’s what the police do best these days.

204660 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to leggy, 2, #993 of 1673 🔗

Another man now stopped and surrounded by police tsg. Cuffed. Possible false beard? Maybe in breach of an order? Now a lady is having her back pack thought about by police… she is marched off by police.

204672 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Basics, 4, #994 of 1673 🔗

A lady who I saw close to peirs corbyn earlier now walked off in clutches of police.

My question is why did people hang around? The protest was long over. Just a few groups chatting to each other remain when the 400? Tsg and other police arrived. Police now appear to be leaving.

204806 ▶▶▶▶▶ leggy, replying to Basics, 1, #995 of 1673 🔗

SORUK claiming no arrests – seems that might not be accurate?

204821 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to leggy, 1, #996 of 1673 🔗

I think they’d already left.
On the last video, Louise said that the protest was over and people were drifting away with just a few groups still hanging around chatting. No sign of the SPG then.
400 does sound somewhat excessive!

204666 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Basics, 4, #997 of 1673 🔗

Looks a good turnout from the tweets etc I’ve seen. Well done everyone.

204680 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Tom Blackburn, 5, #998 of 1673 🔗

It was really big as it marched through Trafalger Square onwards at about 1.30pm. Thousands. 15 mins of continuous at least to get through the square.

204711 ▶▶▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Basics, 3, #999 of 1673 🔗

Basics. How would you say it compares to previous events?

204719 ▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Tom Blackburn, 5, #1000 of 1673 🔗

The march was big… i could not get an idwa of scale other as I say at least 15 mins to get past nelsons column perhaps 10 abreast. I didn’t see the end of the procession. The march appeared to fragment in some way on the embankment at the first point of tsg contact when the ruptly stream ended. Did the police prevent the numbers from getting any closer to HoP? A smaller group made short speeches outside the cathedral.

The march was the central point from my point of view. I heard non of the speeches.

204775 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Basics, 3, #1001 of 1673 🔗

Thanks Basics, much appreciated.

204692 ▶▶ Cecil B, replying to Basics, 10, #1002 of 1673 🔗

The cowards only come out when the vast majority of demonstrators have gone home

No hitting defencless women with batons this time

That is because they would have got their heads kicked in

The fact that they are now hiding at the height of the demo is positive

204702 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Basics, 3, #1003 of 1673 🔗

Yes – it was patently obvious that the only public nuisance was caused by the police acting like a gang of football hooligans harassing and assaulting members of the public.

204712 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Basics, #1004 of 1673 🔗

Police in attendance at HoP suppose protestor related. Though cannot see any. Sputnik stream ends.

204755 ▶▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to Basics, 1, #1005 of 1673 🔗

Thanks for the updates, much appreciated for those of us not there 👍

204663 Adam, replying to Adam, 5, #1006 of 1673 🔗

Look forward to the day when Johnson Hancock Sturgeon Khan and Drakeford are held accountable for the misery they are held accountable https://www.remove-the-tory-government.org

204785 ▶▶ annie, replying to Adam, #1007 of 1673 🔗

Held accountable with hemp.

204676 Mark, replying to Mark, 72, #1008 of 1673 🔗

The Welsh dragon is unleashed: Furious Tesco shopper tears away plastic sheets and asks how children’s clothes are ‘non-essential’ in run-up to winter under Wales’s ‘disgraceful’ Covid rules comment image Gwilym Owen (inset right), 28, last night ripped down covers in Tesco in Bangor (centre and right), where staff had hidden items deemed not important by the government (left). He shouted: ‘Since when have clothes been exempt?, rip the f***ers off… kids’ f***ing clothes, it is a disgrace.’ A security staff member approached Mr Owen and he replied: ‘Since when has clothing not been essential.’ The store worker, who was wearing a face covering, confronted him over an F&F label stall while the cameraman ran away from another employee. First Minister for Wales Mark Drakeford (inset left) plunged the country into a draconian ‘firebreak’ lockdown at 6pm yesterday and it is expected to wreck the Welsh economy. Under the move, which will last 17 days, people have to stay home and leave only for a limited reasons, including exercise, buying essential goods or to provide care.

Magnificent front page from the DM!

204684 ▶▶ Mark, replying to Mark, 24, #1009 of 1673 🔗

Gwilym Owen, we salute you! (See him in action at the DM link).

204698 ▶▶▶ Cecil B, replying to Mark, 12, #1010 of 1673 🔗

We salute you national hero

204781 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Mark, 8, #1011 of 1673 🔗

My heeero.

204686 ▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Mark, 20, #1012 of 1673 🔗

Saw a comment that there should be naked protests as clothes are clearly not essential in Welsh supermarkets.

204812 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Sarigan, 6, #1013 of 1673 🔗

Naked protests would have been more popular in April!

204715 ▶▶ Ned of the Hills, replying to Mark, 10, #1014 of 1673 🔗

I just wonder why the supermarkets don’t just turn an eye to such a daft edict.

204784 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Ned of the Hills, 11, #1015 of 1673 🔗

You may well wonder. Effing crawlers.
BBC praised them for ‘working very hard’ to cover everything up.

204741 ▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to Mark, 10, #1016 of 1673 🔗

I’d buy that man a drink!

204921 ▶▶ AnotherSceptic, replying to Mark, 10, #1017 of 1673 🔗

Comment on the DM page less than a minute ago

“ “since when have clothes been non essential he screams” yada yada…. They have been deemed possibly unfit for purpose during the pandemic since hundreds of shoppers have handled said articles, tried them on, kids wiping their snuffling nose’s on etc., he’s just a silly wannabe (DJ). Now they will all be seeing who can do thie biggest “dare”. Pathetic!”

What a brainwashed arsehole!! But, there are a lot of people praising him, I salute the man. Please let this be the start of the proper fight back.

Also, prior to this utter shit show, everything was handled by others & nobody batted an eyelid.

Stupid Cunt for that comment.

204932 ▶▶▶ captainbeefheart, replying to AnotherSceptic, 4, #1018 of 1673 🔗
204998 ▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to AnotherSceptic, 3, #1019 of 1673 🔗

I was on the comments section of that article for ages adding my 2p. As usual, always look at the Best Rated comments. Hundreds of them calling him a hero or equivalent without the silly boy nonsense of that one comment.

205057 ▶▶ Lockdown_Lunacy, replying to Mark, 2, #1020 of 1673 🔗

Good man, great to see.

205184 ▶▶ Jakehadlee, replying to Mark, 2, #1021 of 1673 🔗

Well done – heroes standing up

204677 peyrole, replying to peyrole, 26, #1022 of 1673 🔗

Here in Tarn, south west France, all bars have been instructed to close. Which means there a lot of new restaurants serving drinks with rolls etc which take 2 hours to eat ( at least), but you have to sit down, otherwise covid will get you. Also sound or visual entertainment is limited to the morning hours only, which seems to being ignored given the live entertainment at some of the ‘new’ restaurants. Names and mobile numbers being kept for 15 days before being ‘destroyed; interesting how many old UK mobiles appearing.
I am trying to stay positive, but ths is social engineering, it has bugger all to do with a virus.

204727 ▶▶ Basics, replying to peyrole, 3, #1023 of 1673 🔗

Covid proof rolls. Sound like lumuns (sp) bread to me, magical stuff!

204697 JoeBlogg, replying to JoeBlogg, -2, #1024 of 1673 🔗

Has anyone read or listened to Ted Kaczynski’s manuscript on Youtube? A friend of mine reccomended and he was right in saying “Covid does seem to fit nicely in his projections”.


204703 ▶▶ calchas, replying to JoeBlogg, 1, #1025 of 1673 🔗


204872 ▶▶ Biker, replying to JoeBlogg, 3, #1026 of 1673 🔗

I’ve got a Unabomber T shirt, it’s made from Hemp. lol

205046 ▶▶▶ JoeBlogg, replying to Biker, 1, #1027 of 1673 🔗

Can’t say i agree with his tactics, although he does make a point about it “being lost” had he not have done so.
Controversial, but the guy is a genious.

204700 Fingerache Philip., 9, #1028 of 1673 🔗

Gwilym Owen: Hero of the fight back.

204701 Victoria, replying to Victoria, 9, #1029 of 1673 🔗

Advice from the fearless leader

204736 ▶▶ Humanity First, replying to Victoria, 1, #1030 of 1673 🔗

Nice one!

Actually in one sense it is quite true to say the economy has been prioritized over lives…

…vulnerable lives and livelihoods – and the simple joys of life for millions- are being mercilessly tossed aside to make way for the new ‘green’/reset/fourth industrial revolution economy.

204804 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Victoria, 1, #1031 of 1673 🔗

Brilliant. Except it should read: Prioritise the NHS above lives.

204858 ▶▶ mhcp, replying to Victoria, #1032 of 1673 🔗

Complicate for profit, simplify for results.

204704 Basics, replying to Basics, 2, #1033 of 1673 🔗

In terms of vaccine creation. Is it important to have the virus structure isolated? Without isolation it would seem very difficult to prove the connection between dna fragments, infection, and caused symptoms.

Without the viron being isolated how is it possible to accurately target the design of the vaccine?

I feel I must be missing a large part of the puzzle, but given where the world is I don’t feel I am overly stupid for asking. Can anyone fill in my understanding please.

204799 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Basics, 3, #1034 of 1673 🔗

The part you’re missing looks like this:

and sounds like this:

Then again, being familiar with your posts, I doubt you’ve missed anything. 😉

204825 ▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to Basics, 1, #1035 of 1673 🔗

The part of the puzzle that is missing is that you persist in claiming that the SARS-Cov-2 virus has never been isolated and that its genetic structure has therefore never been elucidated.

There are hundreds if not thousands of papers in the scientific literature that report on aspects of the isolation and genetic sequencing of the virus. Let me point to just one of them Variant analysis of SARS-CoV-2 genomes which I found after a cursory search, and which states

In late 2019, several people in Wuhan, China, were presenting with severe pneumonia at the hospitals. […] Researchers isolated the virus causing the pneumonia in December 2019 and found it to be a strain of β -coronavirus (CoV).

For this study, we used the sequence of established SARS-CoV-2 reference genome, NC_045512

Now I suppose it is possible that you don’t believe any of these claims, but these claims certainly exists and it’s becoming really rather unlikely that you are unaware of them. In which case, may I suggest that you modify your stance at least to the point of saying that there are thousands of people who claim to have isolated and sequenced the virus but that you don’t believe any of them because … .

Just saying it’s never been done with this faux-naif air of puzzlement is not helping your case let alone that of your fellow sceptics.

204886 ▶▶▶ Arkansas, replying to Richard Pinch, 7, #1036 of 1673 🔗

I guess what they are after (would be more satisfied with) is the description of the actual isolation process and the approach that then led to a genome being uploaded into the database(s), rather than just a reference to genomes/databases as the starting point:

Between 1 February and 1 May 2020, we downloaded 10 022 SARS CoV-2 genomes from four databases.

Their concern being that the genome has been, to a greater or lesser extent, mostly inferred from or extrapolated from existing coronavirus database entries or models, rather than being truly sequenced from scratch from patient samples. (Thus potentially leading to subsequent PCR methodologies, inspired by those database sequences, responding to protein spikes not necessarily specific to a particular “novel coronavirus”. That, I think, is their actual argument.)

205298 ▶▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to Arkansas, 1, #1037 of 1673 🔗

Their concern being that the genome has been, to a greater or lesser extent, mostly inferred from or extrapolated from existing coronavirus database entries or models, rather than being truly sequenced from scratch from patient samples.

That would hardly be consistewnt with papers such as Isolation and rapid sharing of the 2019 novel coronavirus (SARS‐CoV‐2) from the first patient diagnosed with COVID‐19 in Australia which states

SARS‐CoV‐2 was isolated from a 58‐year‐old man from Wuhan, China who arrived in Melbourne on 19 January 2020

Electron microscopy of the supernatant confirmed the presence of virus particles with morphology characteristic of viruses of the family Coronaviridae . Whole genome sequencing of the viral isolate and phylogenetic analysis indicated the isolate exhibited greater than 99.99% sequence identity with other publicly available SARS‐CoV‐2 genomes.

That seems to me a positive assertion firstly that the whole genome was sequenced from a single patient sample and secondly that this particular coronavirus had an almost identical genome to others in the database; implying thirdly that the existing database contained correctly sequenced whole genomes too.

My guess is that the underlying cause of this debate is to try to promote the notion that the PCR test in fact detects fragments of a wide variety of coronaviruses, due to an invalidly constructed genomic database. That is inconsistent with what this paper claims, and I emphasise that this is simply the first one I came across in a casual search.

205412 ▶▶▶▶▶ Arkansas, replying to Richard Pinch, 2, #1038 of 1673 🔗

My guess is that the underlying cause of this debate is to try to promote the notion that the PCR test in fact detects fragments of a wide variety of coronaviruses.

I’m not sure it’s correct to say that the “cause of the debate” is a desire to promote a pre-conceived position of “PCR can’t tell between coronaviruses”, although that would one concern that might follow if it were true that the sequences in the database weren’t particularly trustworthy, were inferred rather than independent, etc.

(I’m sure there are some who are just scrabbling for supporting arguments for an attractive position though.)

It’s more that it seems unclear to people.

The paper chase tends to go somewhat round in circles: in the paper you linked to, for example, they use the Wuhan-Hu-1 reference genome for alignment during assembly. Countries like the UK and USA never have isolated the virus themselves, as far as I know; they just use the Chinese sequences, which might be of varying quality and/or ultimate independence.

These elements are the root of the doubt some readers express, and it’s hard to say “ this is the paper that answers that and this is how that information leads to PCR test reliability” to them.

My own view is that it doesn’t ultimately matter very much: the quality of the sequences doesn’t magically make PCR tests more or less appropriate for diagnostic purposes, nor does it make PCR tests appropriate for mass surveillance and a good basis for public health measures.

205464 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Arkansas, #1039 of 1673 🔗

Thanks again for clear analysis.
It is a paper chase – and as my op stated in the context of 2020 and Long Covid it is right to question what perhaps appears ‘a given’.*

I have stated before the actual viral detail is a minor part of the entire story.

*as a single easily researched example WHO Country by country data shows clearly that Influenza has been eradicated worldwide, exception Cambodia.

Science has been found out this year as an industry. It is absolutely right to question everything.

205453 ▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Richard Pinch, -1, #1040 of 1673 🔗

Get out of it with my guess BS richard – fucking critising my question and you come back with my guess. Bollocks to you man.

205450 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Arkansas, #1041 of 1673 🔗

Thank you Arkansas for interpreting my questioning. This is exactly what I would have written if able.

204941 ▶▶▶ John P, replying to Richard Pinch, #1042 of 1673 🔗

Yes, it’s hardly a secret.

205448 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Richard Pinch, #1043 of 1673 🔗

Hi Richard it my pleasure to read your grumpy as fuck post. Thank you. It is clear your brain is twice the size of mine and you are at least ooh four times the human as I. Thank you for graciously stooping to my low level.

If you would be so kind could you take time out of your day to listen to Dr Kevin Corbett who suggest the viron has not been isolated and described.

Here’s the link

If it’s all the same to your good self I take whatever you say with a richard pinch of salt just purely based on your superior attitude.

The study in China you mention took samples from 6 patients or was it 8 did not process the material fully and declared a new virus. Good for you that you are 100% understanding.

Genome sequencing isn’t what I asked about. I am interested to learn about the actual structure and how that produces infection that causes the symptoms as advertised in every infomercial going.


Clearly being a twat is just a waste of effort.

204887 ▶▶ JudgeMental, replying to Basics, 1, #1044 of 1673 🔗

It makes me laugh when these idiots say the virus had never been isolated. Scientists have been building a genetic database of every animal, plant, bacteria, virus they can get their hands on for many years. Isolating and genetically sequencing DNA and RNA is a standard process. Here’s a database of SARS-cov-2 where it had been sequenced 170 pages of results since January in labs around the world. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/labs/virus/vssi/#/virus?SeqType_s=Nucleotide&VirusLineage_ss=Wuhan%20seafood%20market%20pneumonia%20virus,%20taxid:2697049

204953 ▶▶▶ John P, replying to JudgeMental, #1045 of 1673 🔗

Agree 100% !

205485 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to JudgeMental, -1, #1046 of 1673 🔗

Forgive me I cannot see where it has been isolated in the link above.

Are various DNA sequences enough to design a vaccine from? In the old days the actual virus was needed for live atenuated.

How do you feel about those sequences causing the broad range of symptoms and illness including long covid. Frankly to me it’s very much akin to being asked to believe a truth on the skakiest of ground.

204936 ▶▶ John P, replying to Basics, 1, #1047 of 1673 🔗

Basically, yes.

There are three types of traditional vaccine:

Subunit vaccines: consisting of only some components of the virus

Inactivated vaccines: essentially a “dead” virus

Live virus vaccines: rely on the use of viruses with reduced pathogenicity.

In all cases the idea is to stimulate an immune response so that when the real thing arrives the body immediately recognises it and can deal with it.

Most viruses will be readily dealt with by the immune system, but the immune system has to recognise them first.

That is the problem, when the body encounters something it has never seen before it does not immediately see danger and the pathogen can become established.

205490 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to John P, #1048 of 1673 🔗

Thanks John, I am aware of the 3 kinds of vaccine plus the 4th RNA newest type. Is a DNA sequence of a virus enough to base a vaccine design on? I would imagine the immune response is critical to the vaccine – can a DNA sequence be used to reliably trigger and modify the immune response? It obviously is being attempted.

204718 Cecil B, replying to Cecil B, 4, #1049 of 1673 🔗

Because they have brains you fucking dimwit


204729 ▶▶ l835, replying to Cecil B, 2, #1050 of 1673 🔗

Professor Fay Short. What an idiot. Clearly you are not allowed to question or disagree with the rules in her world.

204739 ▶▶▶ Tenchy, replying to l835, 2, #1051 of 1673 🔗

I do like those signs (not), that implore men to stay 2m from women, and vice-versa.

204761 ▶▶ annie, replying to Cecil B, 4, #1052 of 1673 🔗

Because some of us are still human. Christ almighty! (Not intended as blasphemy.)

Once again, no comments allowed on that story. I wonder why?

Us Welshies must arrange to meet and HUG. Any suggestions for when and where?

204925 ▶▶▶ Melangell, replying to annie, 1, #1053 of 1673 🔗

I would come! Feeling really isolated and lonely in deserted West Wales. Should all those in favour arrange this on the forum or by email?

204721 DRW, 7, #1054 of 1673 🔗

In five months it’ll have been a whole year, and probably we’ll still be here with no end in sight.

204724 Old Bill, replying to Old Bill, 7, #1055 of 1673 🔗


Boris: Well here we are then, we made it at last – PM, master of all we survey, what are you going to do with this new found power?

Boris: I’m going to shag everything that moves!

Boris: Goes without saying of course, but will that cut it for you? Will that make you one of the great PM’s of all time? What about your boyhood hero – Churchill?

Boris: Oh yeah, the great Winston, what a man. Maybe I could take up smoking cigars?

Boris: Do me a favour. You would look even more of a dick than you do now and probably set light to your hair.

Boris: There is that, so what then? Winny was a wartime PM, this is peacetime.

Boris: Well, there are precedents – Maggie and Argentina, Tony and Iraq.

Boris: But the real enemies now are China and Russia, I couldn’t declare war on them could I, we’d be annihilated.

Boris: Well no you couldn’t do that of course, but what about something closer to home?

Boris: But I am already at war with the EU, that is what got me elected.

Boris: Closer than that even?

Boris: I don’t get you.

Boris: What about Great Britain? No massive logistic costs, easy to win, just get the media on your side and Bob’s your uncle.

Boris: Are you mad?

Boris: You aren’t thinking this out are you. invent some kind of a threat – a bit like WMD – and start fighting against it – you won’t need cigars boyo.

Boris: Hey, I am beginning to get it now, you mean some imaginary threat.

Boris: Exactly.

Boris: I could make all those sombre speeches in parliament and on TV – “We shall fight on the seas and oceans, we shall fight in the air, we shall defend our island whatever the cost may be. We shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills, we shall fight in the nightclubs and the gymnasiums and the theatres and the supermarkets, and we shall never surrender” Wow, I like this a lot.

Boris: You’ve got it now, you’re on a roll, and of course you can get the police and media to do the actual fighting for you while you carry on with your shagging plan.

Boris: Man Oh Man!! This is a win, win! I’ll get gongs, approbation, fame and maybe even a state funeral at the end.
Just one thing though what kind of a threat can I invent?

Boris: Do you expect me to do all your thinking for you, what about some kind of a disease nobody has ever heard of before?

Boris: Great idea, I’ll ask Hapless Hancock to make one up for me, he’s supposed to be the health secretary isn’t he?

Boris: You’ve got it, get the others to do the work for you and if it goes wrong you can blame them.

Boris: You mean this could go wrong?

Boris: No chance, just go for it.

Boris: I’m gonna do it, I’m gonna be Churchill 2 – and no cigars – apart from the one I’ve got in my trouser pocket just thinking about it.

204731 ▶▶ GiftWrappedKittyCat, replying to Old Bill, #1056 of 1673 🔗

Many a true word is said in jest!

204894 ▶▶ Rosie, replying to Old Bill, #1057 of 1673 🔗

That’s brilliant. Best thing I’ve read for a long time! Thanks !!!
I’ll copy it to a few people who I know will appreciate it, LOL.

204740 Nick Rose, replying to Nick Rose, 11, #1058 of 1673 🔗

Good protest march today, marred a little towards the end when the police decided to break it up. Done with more tact from the police then in former protests.

Back to the Gulag now. Well, later tonight. Train back south to collect car, then the drive back to Wales

204745 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Nick Rose, 2, #1059 of 1673 🔗

The bastards let you out, then?

204958 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Tenchy, 2, #1060 of 1673 🔗

I snuck out yesterday afternoon

204756 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Nick Rose, 2, #1061 of 1673 🔗

Done with more tact from the police then in former protests”

Less violence, perhaps – but still egregious thuggery from what I saw.

204959 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to RickH, #1062 of 1673 🔗

Can only speak from what I saw, Rick. Will catch up with the vids tomorrow :0))

204767 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Nick Rose, 4, #1063 of 1673 🔗

Thanks for being there!

204962 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #1064 of 1673 🔗

Yw :0))

204742 stefarm, replying to stefarm, 12, #1065 of 1673 🔗

What’s with all this fist bumping bollocks (I’m watching final score on BBC1 Millwall 1-1) with the football. Are knuckles less deadly then palms.

Sorry I’m having a whinge.

A couple of games in Scotland have today been postponed as the teams haven’t got enough players due to self isolating. for fuck sake, none of them have symptoms. The pundits are wetting their knickers, why aren’t players following the rules, social distancing, should be aware of their responsibilities…..cry cry cry. Stop fucking testing them!

Also saw the awful HSBC advert today with Richard Ayoade and his corduroy gimp mask…I know, I know, it’s only an advert but grinds my gears. What’s with this Ayoade dude is he permanently in geeky character mode or he is just a prick.

204749 ▶▶ RickH, replying to stefarm, 8, #1066 of 1673 🔗

I’ll break my rule about gratuitous insults :

You have to be a bit of a prick to wear a mask willingly. 🙂

204754 ▶▶ Sarigan, replying to stefarm, 8, #1067 of 1673 🔗

I sat next to him on a flight back from Marrakech and confirm he is a prick.

204768 ▶▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Sarigan, #1068 of 1673 🔗


204794 ▶▶▶ dommo, replying to Sarigan, #1069 of 1673 🔗

he must be to advertise for HSBC, a massively criminal drugs money laundering operation…

204814 ▶▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to dommo, #1070 of 1673 🔗

I;m thinking of closing my account in protest, safer under the mattress

204871 ▶▶ Leemc23, replying to stefarm, #1071 of 1673 🔗

Ayoade. Paid Gimp in Gimp mask shock.

205358 ▶▶ matt, replying to stefarm, #1072 of 1673 🔗

Knew him at university.

The answer is “prick”

204743 l835, replying to l835, 21, #1073 of 1673 🔗

Having a lovely day in Wales. Drove along deserted roads to the beach, sitting having a butty as plod drives past again (I’m 15 miles from home and clearly not exercising) but no interest from them. Haven’t seen a masked pedestrian or driver all day. All the sheeple seem to have locked themselves up, so there is one positive to lockdowns!

204757 ▶▶ annie, replying to l835, 11, #1074 of 1673 🔗

You have a point. Cycling in Pembs was lovely during the last bollox, had the roads to myself.
Silver lining and all that.
Wonder how keen the fuzz really are on crushing us underfoot. BBC site says they expect to find policing the gulag ‘more difficult’ this time. ‘Fucking impossible’ would be my preferred expression.

Have the executioners come for the Welsh Ceausescu yet? I look to the day.

204762 ▶▶ Silke David, replying to l835, 2, #1075 of 1673 🔗

I guess plod is all the border to control no-one gets out or in, or buys none essentials.

204770 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Silke David, 12, #1076 of 1673 🔗

They are on their mettle
To stop you buying a kettle,
Or to stop
You getting a new mop.

204788 ▶▶▶▶ calchas, replying to annie, 6, #1077 of 1673 🔗

Hello, hello, hello,

what has we got ‘ere?

You is being charged with being in posession of a mop.

We is moppin’ up you lockdown-breakers.

204813 ▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to calchas, 3, #1078 of 1673 🔗

Some breakers. Some mop.

204851 ▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Silke David, 2, #1079 of 1673 🔗

None on the Wrexham/Shropshire border this afternoon.

204763 Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, 23, #1080 of 1673 🔗

Mile long protest march along Oxford St.
50,000 – 100,000 people estimated.
Successful, peaceful day.


204776 ▶▶ annie, replying to Cheezilla, 8, #1081 of 1673 🔗

Great, I’m really encouraged!
Glad you told us ’cause sure as hell the Beeb won’t.

204863 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to annie, 2, #1082 of 1673 🔗
204782 ▶▶ VickyA, replying to Cheezilla, 8, #1083 of 1673 🔗

Thank you to all of those there. I cannot physically travel there (without help which I won’t get from my other half), but I really appreciate those of you that made the effort. Thank you again.

204853 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to VickyA, 3, #1084 of 1673 🔗

Me too. I couldn’t go but was glad so many were able to stand up and be counted.

They’re hoping there will be more local ones before the next biggie at the end of November.

It sounds as if they’ve got much better organised. The request to take noise-makers was a briliant idea and, from what I saw on the videos, made a huge difference.

204815 ▶▶ Rosie, replying to Cheezilla, 11, #1085 of 1673 🔗

I talked to various people who also went to the march who said the same thing, along with much support from passing taxi drivers. Onlookers reported to be partially supportive, and a few were spotted removing their own masks.
They all commented on being exhausted, mentally rather than physically.
This time there weren’t any children, no doubt parents having seen the violence from a previous occasion.

204849 ▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to Cheezilla, 2, #1086 of 1673 🔗

Great, thanks!
Though of an appropriate song for the protests..


204865 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to PoshPanic, 1, #1087 of 1673 🔗

Very apt indeed!

205438 ▶▶ CGL, replying to Cheezilla, #1088 of 1673 🔗

Brilliant news – we done!

204771 Fingerache Philip., replying to Fingerache Philip., 21, #1089 of 1673 🔗

Going back to Maureen and Michael on the ITV morning/ daytime programme; at last; 2 people who are obviously intelligent,experienced and immune to the brain dead and moronic drivel that is popular television.
Plastic presenters that are “bubbly”( Christ! how I hate that word) endlessly churning out articles about BLOODY skateboarding ducks,dancing kittens,yummy mummies and daddies,etc.
Is it hardly surprising that people who watch this mind rotting rubbish follow and obey the madness that we have had to endure these last 8 months?

204779 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Fingerache Philip., 6, #1090 of 1673 🔗

After being initially heartened yesterday, I then went on to read the comments on social media. They got dog’s abuse. Awful, awful people that dish out tonnes of disproportionate stick.

204792 ▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to Tom Blackburn, 12, #1091 of 1673 🔗

Tom, we must stay optimistic and take heart from Maureen and Michael and Gwilym Owen in Wales.
We must never stop even if it’s only moaning on this platform

204798 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Fingerache Philip., 11, #1092 of 1673 🔗

Absolutely. Stick it out. Never give in to evil.

204807 ▶▶▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to annie, 5, #1093 of 1673 🔗

Thank you, Annie.

204837 ▶▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to Tom Blackburn, 8, #1094 of 1673 🔗

A few who write a lot of comments, same on all boards, to give the impression of a lot of lockdown support.

204844 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Dan Clarke, 2, #1095 of 1673 🔗

Paid shills?

204848 ▶▶▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Cheezilla, 4, #1096 of 1673 🔗

Or 77th weekend warriors getting their pocket money topped up.

204976 ▶▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to Dan Clarke, 4, #1097 of 1673 🔗

Well, some of us keep busy countering with anti-lockdown comments. Just spent some time on the Daily Mail site myself. But that’s largely a pleasure these days with all the scepticism being expressed there.

205012 ▶▶▶ wat tyler, replying to Tom Blackburn, 4, #1098 of 1673 🔗

Tom ,What you have to remember is only about 2o% of people are on twitter and from what i hear that is where most of the abuse was .I am not on face book but my sister is and she has about 500 friends and said it was mostly supportive . I think it’s a general class hatred like Brexit, the middle class don’t want a couple of working class yorkshire people challenging the narrative .In the end spiteful comments against pensioners will not get these people anywhere and the sympathy will rightly go towards Maureen and her husband . Those people just showed what makes this country great ,not the Queen ,not the Government but a couple of lowly pensioners from Barnsley .So God (and i’m an atheist )bless them .

205545 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Tom Blackburn, #1099 of 1673 🔗

Yep, someone was abusing Maureen on a Liverpool FC fans website today. Not done so before there, but felt obliged to wade in.

Unbelievably, someone was telling me about Ferguson’s initial modelling within three posts. Sigh.

I have Qanon logic, apparently.

204866 ▶▶ Leemc23, replying to Fingerache Philip., 2, #1100 of 1673 🔗

Please take five minutes to give your feedback to the GP from GMB.


She is very much deserving of comment for her 500 x more likely comment.

204895 ▶▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to Leemc23, 1, #1101 of 1673 🔗

Will do.

204786 Fingerache Philip., replying to Fingerache Philip., 8, #1102 of 1673 🔗

TV News just started: the usual rollout of collaborators saying all the “usual” : “We should have gone into a stronger lockdown earlier, platitudes,platitudes,platitudes”
No mention of sceptic anti lockdown protests though.

204842 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Fingerache Philip., 5, #1103 of 1673 🔗

How surprising – not!

204790 Two-Six, replying to Two-Six, 61, #1104 of 1673 🔗


Yesterday I stopped in a local garage to get some diesel for the van. I went in to pay and wore no face nappy. I walked around the mental one way system and there were two cashiers one was busy dealing with another nappy wearer so I went to the other one. I noticed an older lady looking at the shelves and I assumed she was still shopping and not waiting to pay.

A little lady stood there glowering at me. Thin yellowish grey skin stretched over her angular boney face. A huge black mask almost covering it.

She said You jumped the queue, I was next, she said curtly. Oh sorry I said moving back behind her, I didn’t see you in your face mask.

She didn’t like this one bit. She said can you stand away from me! your not wearing a mask. I said no you move away from me, she said that’s my dot that’s your one back there. I said oh don’t be so stupid, just go an pay and leave me alone.

Then she said to the staff, he isn’t wearing a face mask, you shouldn’t serve him!

I said well I had just put £60 in the tank. She then said she was going to take my registration number call the police and that the staff should not serve me for not wearing a mask.

By this stage I was fucking raging at the sheer injustice or this situation and the cheek of this bitch of a woman. I said to her, look at this and I held out my hands which were visibly trembling, my whole body was shaking with adrenaline.

I am shaking right now recalling this as I type.

I said you are really winding me up here and you would be well advised to stop it right now. Pay the cashier and leave me alone.

By this time the other till had cleared so I went over to it, no she said don’t serve him! He should be wearing a face mask. Call the police! The shop staff then mumbled something to me about wearing a mask the next time I come in.Thankfully the cashier started getting the payment ready and I managed to stop my hand shaking enough to put the card in the machine and type my pin. I then said to her listen the reason I am not wearing a mask is because I am exempt, everybody is. I am not wearing one because they cause me extreme anxiety and distress. The goblin lady then says in a very patronising way, I am very concerned about your condition.

I stared at her beady evil little eyes and said you don’t give a fuck, you bitch. I said if you think wearing a mask helps protect you from anything of it protects anybody from you you are a fucking idiot.

Off I went out the door Saying loudly FUCKING CUNTS!

204800 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Two-Six, 36, #1105 of 1673 🔗

I normally ask these questions:

  1. are you an on-duty policeman?
  2. are you an on-duty CPSO?
  3. are you an council appointed officer?

No – then it’s none of your business, you have no legal right to question me.

Now starting to think of adding “so fuck right off” at the end.

205028 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Awkward Git, 12, #1106 of 1673 🔗

I know AG I should have said these things. I will try to remember to do so next time. However I was just so surprised at this woman’s behaviour. I was totally caught off guard by it.

204801 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to Two-Six, 30, #1107 of 1673 🔗

Sounds to me like you handled this very well indeed. This thing you interacted with was not human. It will be taking the vaccine, so will be dead within a year.

205005 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Richard O, 6, #1108 of 1673 🔗

Her and millions like her. Perhaps Bill Gates is not all bad.

205032 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Richard O, 16, #1109 of 1673 🔗

I didn’t handle it that well at all really I could have done way better but I was in such a state it was only going to go one way. In 3 seconds the insanity and the injustice of the last 7 months coalesced into a crystal of hate and anger.

205106 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Two-Six, 2, #1110 of 1673 🔗

Then your self-control under such provocation is highly laudable!

204809 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Two-Six, 16, #1111 of 1673 🔗

Only got to this bit, but your misery has made my day!
“she said that’s my dot that’s your one back there.” Just the little things amuse me. Back to angry frown now as I read on!

204817 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Basics, 17, #1112 of 1673 🔗

Absolutely horrible that shaking with adrenaline. As others say you handled the suprise situation excellently. Scummy little upstarts are everywhere, they are not the majority.

204811 ▶▶ annie, replying to Two-Six, 19, #1113 of 1673 🔗

I just love it when you get angry! But I know how awful such confrontations are. My set-to with our Covid-fawning rector shook me to the core, but I got over it. So will you. Just enjoy your time in fair Somerset.

What a horrid bitch.Wonder what rotting woodwork she crawled out of.

205058 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to annie, 7, #1114 of 1673 🔗

Thanks Annie, it’s raining and cold outside but its nice and cozy in the van. I couldn’t sleep last night due to the assault by the goblin lady. I am sure I will get over it, just another bit of shit pie to eat.

205268 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Two-Six, 2, #1115 of 1673 🔗

It does wear off. Honest.
At least you’ll never have to see the goblin again. She’ll be filling a particularly pokey room in hell.

204818 ▶▶ Mark, replying to Two-Six, 15, #1116 of 1673 🔗

It surprises you just how angry it makes you, doesn’t it? I have found myself much closer to physical violence than I ever would normally be in such interactions, certainly when sober.

204841 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Mark, 9, #1117 of 1673 🔗

It’s a natural response to aggression – and that goblin was being very aggressive.

205402 ▶▶▶ CGL, replying to Mark, 2, #1118 of 1673 🔗

Yes – the anger has been festering for so long now. Mr CGL is a very mild mannered man (and my impression having met two-six is that he is too) but right now if someone actually challenges him they should expect to lose consciousness at the very least. I wanted to go to London last Sat – he wouldn’t have wanted me to go alone, but felt that he could be very likely to get into trouble of some sort so better to stay away.

204840 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Two-Six, 18, #1119 of 1673 🔗

The staff overlooked their Duty of Care to you as a customer and, had the woman upset you sufficiently to eg make you have an asthma or panic attack, they would be liable for very hefty fines.
They should have called the police to her, rather than muttering about mask-wearing to you!

204996 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Cheezilla, 6, #1120 of 1673 🔗

The staff overlooked their Duty of Care to you as a customer “

Oh c’mon … the poor staff are as much victims as anybody. Even if they voted for the Tories 🙂

205013 ▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to RickH, 5, #1121 of 1673 🔗

Victims or not, the staff still have a duty of care, that’s final.

205112 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to RickH, 4, #1122 of 1673 🔗

I agree the staff are victims but they should be apprised of the law. Many company bosses have a lot to answer for.

204922 ▶▶ John P, replying to Two-Six, -6, #1123 of 1673 🔗

Oh sorry I said moving back behind her, I didn’t see you in your face mask.

It must have been a bloody big face mask for you not to see her.

I sympathise, but I find it easier to keep a low profile when shopping without a mask.

204951 ▶▶▶ mjr, replying to John P, 21, #1124 of 1673 🔗

i do exactly the opposite . I walk around head high and smile at people -especially toddlers – and engage in conversation with people as usual.

the whole point is to remind people what normal is like

204963 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to mjr, 7, #1125 of 1673 🔗

Me too!

205010 ▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to mjr, 1, #1126 of 1673 🔗

Well, that’s fair enough.

205016 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to John P, 12, #1127 of 1673 🔗

Shopping without a mask is nothing to be bashful about. Be barefaced and proud.

205270 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Rowan, 5, #1128 of 1673 🔗

Right on. Dare them to challenge you – not verbally, just by your confident look. Ten to one they won’t. Three to one the staff feel sympathetic to you.

205020 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to John P, 7, #1129 of 1673 🔗

Yes John mistake number one. However I think the goblin lady already had her fangs sharpened ready to bite me before I said anything

205041 ▶▶▶ DRW, replying to John P, 3, #1130 of 1673 🔗

Similarly on the rare occassion I visit shops I just try to quietly get round as soon as possible, it’s just too depressing.

204965 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Two-Six, 4, #1131 of 1673 🔗

I entirely empathize with you.

But it’s an illustration of what not to do when faced with the brain-dead. Try to find strategies other than getting wound up – difficult tho’ it is.

205035 ▶▶ watashi, replying to Two-Six, 7, #1132 of 1673 🔗

Sorry this happened to you Two-Six but it sounds like you dealt with it very well!

205064 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to watashi, 5, #1133 of 1673 🔗

Thank you watashi. I could have done better. I am not proud of what happened and how I reacted. Still at least I gave her some shit back and didn’t take her bullshit. In a way I won that one. I got my fuel and stood my ground but I wish I could have been calmer.

205408 ▶▶▶▶ CGL, replying to Two-Six, #1134 of 1673 🔗

You did fine – it was a horrible encounter.

204791 chaos, replying to chaos, 2, #1135 of 1673 🔗

Faith in Quick Test Leads to Epidemic That Wasn’t comment image ?quality=75&auto=webp&disable=upscale
Dr. Brooke Herndon of Dartmouth-Hitchcock Medical Center, shown at left this month, was told last spring that she appeared to have whooping cough.Credit…Jon Gilbert Fox for The New York Times
By Gina Kolata

  • Jan. 22, 2007


204910 ▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to chaos, 2, #1136 of 1673 🔗

Why don’t humans learn from the past??? This should have been an indictment of the PCR test as fit-for-purpose and yet the bleeding test is still dictating government policy. We also should have learned from the rushed Swine Flu vaccine of 1976 and the H1N1 of 2009. I actually read a comment in the WSJ from a doctor whose dad was injured from the 1976 vaccine and will still tell his dad, who is now in his 90s, to take the Covid vaccine. We are a stupid species.

204822 Tom Blackburn, replying to Tom Blackburn, 9, #1137 of 1673 🔗

Jeremy Vine becoming more and more sceptical by the day


204832 ▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Tom Blackburn, 11, #1138 of 1673 🔗

Noticed Sarah Vine is a bit of a sceptic.
Most be interesting in the Gove household

204836 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 11, #1139 of 1673 🔗

The Slimy Gove knows this is all a major scam.
Biding his time ….

204876 ▶▶▶▶ IanE, replying to Cheezilla, 3, #1140 of 1673 🔗

…. which will NEVER come!

204944 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to IanE, #1141 of 1673 🔗

I hope you’re right!

204916 ▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to Cheezilla, 3, #1142 of 1673 🔗

Who should we have instead cheezilla? Realistically speaking.

Much as I would prefer the likes of Sir Desmond Swayne or Sir Charles Walker to be Prime Minister I don’t think they are going to get the job.

204954 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to John P, 5, #1143 of 1673 🔗

Realistically, I’ve no idea.
However, I wouldn’t trust any of the current Cabinet as far as I could throw them.

Swayne makes pretty speeches but he actually voted for the Covert Intelligence bill.

205004 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to Cheezilla, 2, #1144 of 1673 🔗

Well I wouldn’t call them pretty, but yes, as you point out, he’s still not an ideal person for the job.

204913 ▶▶▶ John P, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 1, #1145 of 1673 🔗

She has said on twitter that they don’t hold the same opinions about everything.

205006 ▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to John P, #1146 of 1673 🔗

I don’t know why you’ve downvoted that Jonathan. I was just repeating what she said. It wasn’t approval.

204946 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 4, #1147 of 1673 🔗

That’s the massively intelligent journo who didn’t know that ‘Bakewell’ wasn’t just a tart….?

They are a perfectly matched couple.

204881 ▶▶ Now More Than Ever, replying to Tom Blackburn, 1, #1148 of 1673 🔗

Some depressing comments on his post though.

204827 James Leary #KBF, replying to James Leary #KBF, 22, #1149 of 1673 🔗

Back in the hotel now after the March/demo/causing maximum harassment plod. From earlier:-

‘It was either a brilliant plan or serendipity, but whenever the March stopped, like in Parliament Sq. and the plod started gathering their forces, the March took off again. Out of PS it split in two and half (us) went up Whitehall and the other half went to Buck House then rejoined in Trafalgar Sq. one overweight Bronze Commander next to me was shouting and running round his troops like a headless chicken. Now one lot is off up to Leicester Sq. and police cars going mental. Superb stuff.’

Hung around TS after the remains disappeared and the plod was still playing catch-up. They were not expecting a return to TS – I checked the back streets where the TSG lay in wait last time, and there were sparse parked normal police vehicles.

Compared to the last two big demos, this one was by far the most successful and the police were always behind the drag curve in their response.

204847 ▶▶ Cecil B, replying to James Leary #KBF, 7, #1150 of 1673 🔗

If 200,000 turn up next week it will all be over

204885 ▶▶ Rosie, replying to James Leary #KBF, 4, #1151 of 1673 🔗

There were two types of police there, ordinary ones and others in flat caps. What/who are the flat capped ones please?

204939 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Rosie, 5, #1152 of 1673 🔗

Baseball caps are TSG guys, so they can swap for riot helmets. I can’t remember which force does which, but City and Met are different forces. One verses peaked hats, the other traditional helmets. In all forces, Inspectors and above wear peaked caps.

205263 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Rosie, 2, #1153 of 1673 🔗

The ones with no brains in their heads.

204968 ▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to James Leary #KBF, 5, #1154 of 1673 🔗

Divide and conquer. A great solution to overbearing police presence.

205092 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to James Leary #KBF, 1, #1155 of 1673 🔗

Good to know. Thanks.

204828 steph, replying to steph, 18, #1156 of 1673 🔗

Sent a quick thank you email to Sir Desmond Swayne for his continued impassioned common sense in parliament.
Got a “thanks” back. It may have been from a staffer but it means that he has instructed his team to respond this way.
It’s good to be able to say thank you to someone fighting for the people of the UK.

204926 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to steph, 5, #1157 of 1673 🔗

He usually responds, even if it is very brief. I suspect it comes directly from him.

205391 ▶▶▶ CGL, replying to Nick Rose, #1158 of 1673 🔗

I think so too

204957 ▶▶ Jenny, replying to steph, 3, #1159 of 1673 🔗

I emailed him too.

205195 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to steph, 1, #1160 of 1673 🔗

I emailed him last month and he replied – it was short but at least it showed that he reads what he’s sent and acknowledges them.

205395 ▶▶ Stringfellow Hawke, replying to steph, 1, #1161 of 1673 🔗

Yes, fair play to the guy, gotta love his style & grasp of the English language! Suspect it’s worth persevering with the rebel &/or back-bench Tories who are clearly sceptical and are starting to stand up, once a few more come forth serious inroads could come quickly… John Redwood too, has made some good points (esp. re: the use of SI, manipulation of the 1984 health act) a few years ago certainly I would not have called myself a fan, clearly now he’s demonstrating he’s a lot smarter than he looks! 🙂

Charles Walker too, is rapidly becoming a real standout. I contacted him a while back after one of his impassioned speeches, and got a nice (and personal) reply quite recently to show his appreciation – nice touch from what seems like a classy guy. Also you never know, each message of support if nothing else gets their attention, perhaps it might make them talk to colleagues & contemporaries, and hopefully will galvanize them further…

204829 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 11, #1162 of 1673 🔗

The guardian is sort of reporting the London march:


You have to scroll down and see their live updates from earlier.

Well doen to all who went, I was with you in spirit.

204845 ▶▶ captainbeefheart, replying to Awkward Git, 9, #1163 of 1673 🔗

They’ve stuck this up too…


To summarise for those who might feel ill by visiting their site:

“All lockdown sceptics are nasty, horrible, ignorant people who believe everything David Icke and Piers Corbyn say. Look at this picture of one not wearing a mask holding up an ‘anti-vax’ sign near all of those brave police officers. One total twat thiks that 5G (which does chuck out quite a lot of EMF radiation) might stop you from breathing. What a prick. If you know any of these looneys, you should no platform them and inform them that you no longer want to be friends with anyone who is so selfish”

204861 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to captainbeefheart, 6, #1164 of 1673 🔗

You’re braver than me diving that deep into the comments – the Daily Fail is and enough when the bots, trolls and 77th get going.

204864 ▶▶▶▶ captainbeefheart, replying to Awkward Git, 4, #1165 of 1673 🔗

They didn’t allow comments on this article funnily enough. I just read it and summarised what I think they’re getting at 🙂

Saying that, what I wrote would have probably appeared in the comments (with about 357 thumbs up – they don’t allow thumbs down because it might offend people) if comments were allowed…

204933 ▶▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to captainbeefheart, 5, #1166 of 1673 🔗

The Groan under Viner the whiner and MI6-controlled opiner is an insult to what the Guardian was – generally independent in a meaninful sense.

It’s whinging pleas for financial support for ‘independent’ journalism is a hypocritical joke.

205087 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to captainbeefheart, #1167 of 1673 🔗

I think they only allow comments on opinion pieces and maybe on the early morning live stream.
However, I haven’t checked for ages. Too depressing!

204874 ▶▶▶ stevie, replying to captainbeefheart, 3, #1168 of 1673 🔗

Yes saw that was posted earlier this morning.

204907 ▶▶ John P, replying to Awkward Git, 2, #1169 of 1673 🔗

The Guardian also employs sort of journalists. And Simon Jenkins.

204952 ▶▶▶ Ewan Duffy, replying to John P, 4, #1170 of 1673 🔗

They also employ Owen Jones. ‘nuf said.

204830 Guirme, replying to Guirme, 16, #1171 of 1673 🔗

Received my annual flu jab letter today. It states “please wear a face covering while travelling to and from and during your appointment”. So in November when I walk the mile or so to get my jag probably in pouring rain I am supposed to wear a bit of dripping wet cloth accross my face! Is the NHS in Scotland totally mad?

204834 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Guirme, 8, #1172 of 1673 🔗

Is there any doubt?

204862 ▶▶ Leemc23, replying to Guirme, 8, #1173 of 1673 🔗

Yes. Please write them an email and copy it to your MP. Push back. Always push back.

204906 ▶▶▶ Guirme, replying to Leemc23, 6, #1174 of 1673 🔗

My MP is a totally useless SNP nutter who can be rather rude if you dare to criticise him; a waste of time writing to him.

204984 ▶▶▶▶ Ruth Sharpe, replying to Guirme, 3, #1175 of 1673 🔗

Probably the same as mine – he’s well known for being a pompous ass.

204994 ▶▶▶▶ Leemc23, replying to Guirme, 3, #1176 of 1673 🔗

It’s never a waste. With an email especially so, copy it to his local opponents, SNP head quarters etc and polite remind him he needs to represent your views. That’s his role. Even if he does not agree.

205024 ▶▶ watashi, replying to Guirme, 1, #1177 of 1673 🔗

Definitely. Hopefully you’re not mad enough to go get it?

205259 ▶▶ annie, replying to Guirme, #1178 of 1673 🔗

Is anybody in Scotland sane, apart from our folk?

205264 ▶▶▶ John P, replying to annie, #1179 of 1673 🔗

I hope my aunties, uncles and cousins in Scotland are reasonably sane, but my mother does not elaborate on their views when we discuss it.

I am in contact with an auntie and uncle and a cousin up there, but I am a little wary of being completely open with them for fear of offending them if they believe the nonsense.

205271 ▶▶ John P, replying to Guirme, #1180 of 1673 🔗

It’s the same in England. My parents recently had their jabs and my dad had to wear one when he had his radiotherapy treatment in August. He once told me he felt faint wearing a mask while wearing one to go upstairs in hospital. I told him to claim exemption, but he carried on wearing it. He’s something of a sceptic, but I think he reasons that if he goes along with it them nobody will hassle him about it.

205317 ▶▶▶ James Bertram, replying to John P, #1181 of 1673 🔗

John – he needs to telephone ahead of the appointment and tell them he will not be wearing a mask as exempt, and ask if they have any arrangement for that.
Here, one hospital appointment, 2 doctors appointments – never been a problem because I cleared it in advance.

204843 Awkward Git, 25, #1182 of 1673 🔗

Here are the contacts for every Police Federation in England and Wales.


I think an e-mail reminding them “I was just following orders” is not a valid defence and Nuremberg Principle IV applies to those of us who are not complying to the laws that are against our human rights and are crimes against humanity.

Something with these gems in:

“Nuremberg Principle IV – from the UN Principles of International Law Recognized in the Charter of the Nürnberg Tribunal and in the Judgment of the Tribunal 1950:

“The fact that a person acted pursuant to order of his Government or of a superior does not relieve him from responsibility under international law, provided a moral choice was in fact possible to him.”

Nuremberg Principle III – this covers the Police

The fact that a person who committed an act which constitutes a crime under international law acted as Head of State or responsible Government official does not relieve him from responsibility under international law.

Nuremberg Principle VII – if they stand back and do nothing

Complicity in the commission of a crime against peace, a war crime, or a crime against humanity as set forth in Principle VI is a crime under international law.


Crimes against humanity:

Murder, extermination, enslavement, deportation and other inhuman acts done against any
civilian population, or persecutions on political, racial or religious grounds

Or in a newer document:

  • Extermination
  • Imprisonment
  • Torture
  • Persecution against an identifiable group
  • Other inhumane acts of a similar character intentionally causing great suffering, or serious injury to body or to mental or physical health
204846 chaos, replying to chaos, 35, #1183 of 1673 🔗

Remember to keep thumbing each other up!!!!!!!! Show you have read a comment!!!!!

205256 ▶▶ annie, replying to chaos, 5, #1184 of 1673 🔗

Hey, I got power! I upticked you and the total promptly leaped from 19 to 30.

That’s Annie power for you! My strength is as the strength of ten because my heart is not pure, but very, very angry.

205389 ▶▶▶ CGL, replying to annie, 1, #1185 of 1673 🔗

Your strength gives us strength

204877 ▶▶▶ leggy, replying to stevie, 5, #1188 of 1673 🔗

“Sorry we are not currently accepting comments on this article.”

Quelle surprise…

204884 ▶▶▶▶ leggy, replying to leggy, 7, #1189 of 1673 🔗

I had to laugh at the “protesters refused to wear masks” angle.

1) they don’t have to and 2) plenty of the pics they published show people in Trump and V masks!

205324 ▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to leggy, #1190 of 1673 🔗

“The reason being we are too busy deleting anti-lockdown comments on other artices. “

204987 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to stevie, #1191 of 1673 🔗

Here’s a picture of Trafalgar Square this afternoon when the protesters had started to disperse. It’s a screenshot from the SORUK video I posted earlier.
Doesn’t look much like the Mail’s account!

204911 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to leggy, 3, #1193 of 1673 🔗

Interesting – again it looks as if rogue editing led to the previous front page, which would have been the Dacre the Ball-acher line.

204888 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Brian ‘Monty’ Cohen, 4, #1194 of 1673 🔗

It’s certainly an odd turnaround when the Express starts backing the angels.

205251 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to RickH, 2, #1195 of 1673 🔗

Take what’s offered by the gift horse and don’t examine its dentition!

204870 PastImperfect, replying to PastImperfect, 3, #1196 of 1673 🔗

A message from Big Brother


204891 ▶▶ chaos, replying to PastImperfect, #1197 of 1673 🔗

spot on!

204904 ▶▶ John P, replying to PastImperfect, 1, #1198 of 1673 🔗

Please remind me of what country Gates is prime minister/president of. Thanks.

204912 ▶▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to John P, 3, #1199 of 1673 🔗

The world apparently

204924 ▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to PoshPanic, -3, #1200 of 1673 🔗

Is that sarcasm or your belief.

204990 ▶▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to John P, -2, #1201 of 1673 🔗

Would still like to know.

205031 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to John P, #1202 of 1673 🔗

I don’t know who has downvoted that comment or why. It was a straightforward question.

205043 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to John P, 2, #1203 of 1673 🔗

John – stop being over-sensitive.

204973 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to John P, 4, #1204 of 1673 🔗

Rothschild once said he doesn’t care who makes the laws of a country just give him control of the money supply.Gates doesn’t need to make the laws as he controls the health policy through the WHO and his paid stooges on sage and bought and paid for media.Bbc Guardian and the Telegraph

204977 ▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to Jonathan Palmer, -3, #1205 of 1673 🔗

In your opinion. I don’t give a shit what Rothschild says (or said), his money doesn’t make him an authority on everything.

Gates has no power, only influence.

I’d like to see Gates try to command an army. Is he going to start a war? No.

This obsession you have with him only serves to distract from the people with power. The government.

204989 ▶▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to John P, 3, #1206 of 1673 🔗

He doesn’t need to.Money = Power and influence.Enjoy your decade of health brought to you by the Bill &Melinda Gates foundation

204991 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to Jonathan Palmer, -7, #1207 of 1673 🔗

Look, I think Gates is a prick, but money does not buy power.

204997 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to John P, 5, #1208 of 1673 🔗

Do you know how naive you sound?
In our godless society money is everything.

205017 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to Jonathan Palmer, -2, #1209 of 1673 🔗

Jonathan, I am tired of this.

Money does not buy you everything in this life.

Gates does not have his hand on the levers of power in this country or any other.

He has influence. That is all.

205045 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to John P, 2, #1210 of 1673 🔗

Oh yes it does!

205049 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Ewan Duffy, replying to John P, 1, #1211 of 1673 🔗

So all of those people/businesses making political donations are wasting their money?

204927 ▶▶▶ John P, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #1213 of 1673 🔗

Cheezilla, I am not interested in that prick. He’s not in charge here.

204942 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to John P, 4, #1214 of 1673 🔗

You don’t have to watch it John.
Freedom rules here.

204955 ▶▶▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #1215 of 1673 🔗

Glad to hear it. I clicked the link, saw what it was about and closed the tab.

205015 ▶▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to Cheezilla, #1216 of 1673 🔗

I was just giving you my opinion.

204873 Silke David, replying to Silke David, 8, #1217 of 1673 🔗

By mistake switched on channel 4 news.
But first an advert for their Dispatches program on Monday “how clean are surfaces in the public?”
How many more people will be driven to manic cleaning like the very sad example mentioned here a few days ago?

204882 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Silke David, 6, #1218 of 1673 🔗

The sad thing is that ‘Dispatches’ has a record of really good investigative work. Way before Al Jazeera highlighted it, Peter Oborne, for instance did a superb analysis of the dire influence of the Israel Lobby on British political life, with it’s links to establishment anti-democratic extremism.

… which is why such truth telling brings down manipulative wrath on those who call out the excrescences of those now shaping the Covid fictions : truth is dangerous to them.

205301 ▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to RickH, -3, #1219 of 1673 🔗

Oh dear. Shame he didn’t do a similar programme on Saudi, Qatari, Emirati, Pakistani, Malaysian and Somalian influence on out national life. Al Jazeera is Qatari funded by the way.

204889 ▶▶ Leemc23, replying to Silke David, 8, #1220 of 1673 🔗

Ahh but if the surfaces are dirty worry not. We can use hand gel. Hand gel is good right ? That is everywhere, that and masks and don’t worry about the dirt.

(Never mention that bacteria is not the same as a virus and a lot of bacteria is necessary for life to live)

(Also never mention that the benefit from masks is countered by the harms by a great degree )

Clown planet.

Snake Oil anyone ?

204898 ▶▶▶ Silke David, replying to Leemc23, 3, #1221 of 1673 🔗

Yeah, like the couple just now who asked the girl at the checkout if the supermarket is proving sanitiser and then went to sanitise their hands before leaving the shop.

204901 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Silke David, 5, #1222 of 1673 🔗

Why don’t they provide their own handgel if they’re so bothered??
Not just thickos but scroungers too.

205306 ▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Silke David, #1223 of 1673 🔗

Actually makes more sense than doing so before you enter, after which you handle items handled by many others!

204914 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Silke David, 1, #1224 of 1673 🔗

Unfortunately most people’s views have been strongly shaped by the early lockdown Dispatches programme which said Pfeffel didn’t lock down quick enough.

205310 ▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Tom Blackburn, #1225 of 1673 🔗

Yes…if only we’d done what Belgium did we could have had a really low…oh no, wait….scrub that…

205372 ▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to Silke David, 1, #1226 of 1673 🔗

I’ll never forget the prime time talk show I watched on the main Irish channel RTE back in Feb. The cleaning maniacs were getting their 5 minutes of fame and they brought on some lady, bless her, who was advising the nation to steam clean their sofas daily, among other obsessive things. The host of the show was, fair play to him, clearly taken aback by that particular recommendation but didn’t question it.

Ironically he did catch Covid a month later, no doubt he missed a day of sofa steam clean

204880 l835, replying to l835, 8, #1227 of 1673 🔗

Welsh petition to allow supermarkets to sell non-essentials. Sorry if it’s been posted before.


204893 ▶▶ Silke David, replying to l835, 7, #1228 of 1673 🔗

Tbh, If supermarkets are allowed to sell “non -essentials”, in the interest of competition and to offer the consumer choice, then all shops need to be able to sell their wares.

204985 ▶▶▶ Leemc23, replying to Silke David, 6, #1229 of 1673 🔗

I am not sure how communism works, but does it have control of commodities and choice as part of the social control ? Drakeford is a hard left politician. One suspects his choices are not virus control related.

205038 ▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Leemc23, 4, #1230 of 1673 🔗

No. Drakeford is just a quotidian arsehole. Just as Johnson is the same. It’s nothing to do with real politics. It’s about putting aresholes in charge.

205140 ▶▶▶▶▶ Leemc23, replying to RickH, 1, #1231 of 1673 🔗

He’s definitely an arsehole.

But from what I can tell he is a momentum backed politician.

204896 ▶▶ garry a, replying to l835, 6, #1232 of 1673 🔗

I personally don’t think that should be supported. It’s like a women in a controlling relationship negotiating who she can have as friends.

204947 ▶▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to garry a, 4, #1233 of 1673 🔗

Well, the usual choice a woman has in that situation is to walk away from the relationship, hoping that the guy doesn’t kill in on her way out.

Obviously, all restrictions need to be removed from shops of all kinds in Wales.

205246 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to ConstantBees, 1, #1234 of 1673 🔗

Agree absolutely, but any kind of pushback against Ceausescu is to be welcomed.

204902 ▶▶ captainbeefheart, replying to l835, 14, #1235 of 1673 🔗



They’re rowing about if pumpkins can be sold or not but don’t give a shit about children’s clothes…

What a bunch of clowns. You stupid, stupid, stupid people…

204966 ▶▶ annie, replying to l835, 7, #1236 of 1673 🔗

Signed. .Heading for 26,000. The muppets in Cardiff have to debate it five times over, as petitions get debated if they top the 5000 mark.

205118 ▶▶▶ DRW, replying to annie, 2, #1237 of 1673 🔗

Six times over now it’s up to 31,000.

204892 garry a, replying to garry a, 58, #1238 of 1673 🔗

I’m getting the fabulous Maureen and her fella printed on a t shirt. That interview summed up the covid crisis. A pair of logical, well informed normal people being spoken down to by the self righteous, condescending ‘elite’ who truly believe we’re too stupid to go toe to toe with them Special mention to her hubby who refused to fall into their trap of ‘is Maureen stubborn’ and then matched the condescension of Jarvis by telling her she was probably a bit young and inexperienced (mixing it with facts on 1968 too). That interview won’t change the Elite, but it will wake up a slumbering mass who can connect with Maureen. Jarvis got her arse kicked and the best but is that’s she hasn’t even worked that out yet

204899 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to garry a, 24, #1239 of 1673 🔗

Yes the GMB people were toe-curlingly embarrassing. Should be ashamed to be so patronising!

205042 ▶▶▶ Draper233, replying to Cheezilla, 14, #1240 of 1673 🔗

I’m bewildered that anybody can tolerate those despicable GMB people on a daily basis.

An hour of watching that level of ignorant sanctimonious smugness would have me vomiting blood.

204908 ▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to garry a, 14, #1241 of 1673 🔗

I’ve noticed Morgan appears to be trying to reposition himself. I bet he thinks he can get away with it

205027 ▶▶▶ Cecil B, replying to PoshPanic, 7, #1242 of 1673 🔗

Nope, he was one of the first on the list

205067 ▶▶▶ Chris Hume, replying to PoshPanic, 4, #1243 of 1673 🔗

I’ve noticed that too. He was most ‘unstrident’ when interviewed by Kevin O’Sullivan on Talk Radio last Saturday.

205094 ▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to PoshPanic, 1, #1244 of 1673 🔗

You mean the Morgan guy who was against BLM four years ago and is now all in favour? Or do you mean the Morgan guy who was highly critical of Covidiots failing to social distance until his son took part in a radical protest where people failed to social distance?

204923 ▶▶ janis pennance, replying to garry a, 21, #1245 of 1673 🔗

I could have slapped Dr thingy . Silly bitch

204970 ▶▶▶ Leemc23, replying to janis pennance, 10, #1246 of 1673 🔗


Give her 500 times the feedback

205098 ▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Leemc23, #1247 of 1673 🔗


205133 ▶▶▶▶▶ Leemc23, replying to OKUK, 2, #1248 of 1673 🔗

One can only hope. I don’t agree with picking on anyone. I do agree with calling out someone who uses a platform to lie to millions.

205297 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Leemc23, #1249 of 1673 🔗

Yes, no need to be offensive – just indicate how she lied and how she deliberately misrepresented what Maureen and partner were arguing for.

205040 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to janis pennance, 3, #1250 of 1673 🔗

Yes good job I saw it on my laptop.
The tv would have been a goner!

204948 ▶▶ Keen Cook, replying to garry a, 11, #1251 of 1673 🔗

I couldn’t watch it all as the glossy shiny rictus grinning smugness of the interviewers and Dr whoever was too much to bear! Maureen & husband deserve big medals and hugs! Sock it to the media….keep on doing it.

204960 ▶▶ Leemc23, replying to garry a, 5, #1252 of 1673 🔗

Please ensure you give MBE Jarvis your feedback.


500 times would be nice.

204979 ▶▶ Riffman, replying to garry a, 12, #1253 of 1673 🔗

Jarvis has been the f’ing expert on every bloody medical condition under the sun. She’s a self opinionated disrespectful twat! I had Hong Kong flu in ‘68 age 10. If wasn’t nice, much worse than Covid I’m sure. We got on with it!

205033 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Riffman, 8, #1254 of 1673 🔗

I copped the ’57/58 version and the 67/68 one. I wouldn’t wish either of them on anyone, and have no illusions about viral infections.

… which makes the rubbish that Jarvis was allowed to spout a f.ing insult. GP? Does that stand for ‘Gobby Prick’?

205000 ▶▶ Julian, replying to garry a, 11, #1255 of 1673 🔗

. Jarvis got her arse kicked and the best but is that’s she hasn’t even worked that out yet

Yes I think their hubris will be a big part of their undoing

205137 ▶▶▶ Leemc23, replying to Julian, 4, #1256 of 1673 🔗

Hubris is a beautiful word And an ideal one in the circumstances we face.

204917 richmond, replying to richmond, 20, #1257 of 1673 🔗

Coronavirus latest news: Schools may have to close to older pupils to curb virus spread, Prof Ferguson warns (Daily Telegraph)
How is it his job to warn us?

204938 ▶▶ ConstantBees, replying to richmond, 13, #1258 of 1673 🔗

Lots of blowback in the comments on the Daily Mail version of that article.

204950 ▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to richmond, 5, #1259 of 1673 🔗

Scientists have always wanted to take over the world..

204999 ▶▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to Dan Clarke, 18, #1260 of 1673 🔗

As Margaret from Barnsley said: “Boris must get rid of the scientists and send them back to their universities and labs.
I didn’t vote for them to run the country.”

205002 ▶▶▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to Jay Berger, 3, #1261 of 1673 🔗

Maureen sorry.

205018 ▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Jay Berger, 6, #1262 of 1673 🔗

Serious issue : the fake egotists riding on the back of fake science (SAGE brown-nose types) are doing serious damage to the very important role of real science.

205011 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Dan Clarke, 7, #1263 of 1673 🔗

Only one flaw in that comment : he’s not a ‘scientist’ – just a player of computer games.

205085 ▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Dan Clarke, #1264 of 1673 🔗

Yes, HG Wells was all for it.

205121 ▶▶▶ Leemc23, replying to Dan Clarke, #1265 of 1673 🔗

^ this. Used to be that every mad scientist in the world needed a James Bond type to stop them. Now we are all trapped by the evil of Vallance and Whitty and our James Bond is Donald Trump.

Christ on a bike.

205293 ▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Leemc23, #1266 of 1673 🔗

Indeed but then Donald Trump sounds like Dr Evil…confusing!!

205034 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to richmond, 6, #1267 of 1673 🔗

He’s more prevalent than the bloody virus!

205243 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Cheezilla, 2, #1268 of 1673 🔗

Certainly a lot more dangerous.
Anyone can get him.
Anyone can spread him.
He’ll kill your granny.

205083 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to richmond, 4, #1269 of 1673 🔗

I’m can’t begin to describe how sick I am of that man and his pronouncements.

I think I’m right in saying that he’s not part of any official government advisory body any more (although I wouldn’t be the slightest bit surprised to find that he’s doing it on the sly). So this is his personal opinion and he can stick it where the sun don’t shine.

He should be ashamed at what his idiotic model has unleashed, and embarrassed at his inability to follow his own rules, not out courting further publicity.

205084 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to richmond, 2, #1270 of 1673 🔗

Given his own previous track record for obeying his own rules, he would probably set up his own independent sixth form school.

204935 calchas, 3, #1271 of 1673 🔗

Protests against new restrictions in Naples:


204972 Hubes, replying to Hubes, 16, #1272 of 1673 🔗

Some crucial tips to stop the spread of a very mild respiratory virus. Please obey these or PEOPLE WILL DIE and the NHS will be overwhelmed.

-Do not go out to buy a toaster.
-Never pay for anything in cash.
-Do not walk past anybody in the opposite direction.
-Do not go out after 9.55pm

All the above have been proven under controlled scientific experiments to stop the spread. If we do them it will buy us time.

Stay safe guys

204982 ▶▶ captainbeefheart, replying to Hubes, 7, #1273 of 1673 🔗

I think not going out after 9:55pm is a good idea, not because the virus wakes up at 10, but because of all of the drink drivers! (I’ve nearly been ran over twice now whilst walking home after going down the boozer)

When the clocks change though, the virus will be about at 9pm – so the pubs should probably close an hour earlier.

I best write to my MP and demand that they change the rules not.

205239 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to captainbeefheart, 1, #1274 of 1673 🔗

If the virus can tell the difference between somebody sitting down and eating and somebody sitting down studying the menu, it can surely get the hang of daylight saving.

205007 ▶▶ l835, replying to Hubes, 8, #1275 of 1673 🔗

I’m worried about going into a cafe. Obviously I’m safe sitting down, but what if I sit at a bar stool? My head is as at the same height as people walking about. I do hope the virus can tell the difference.

205019 ▶▶▶ john, replying to l835, 10, #1276 of 1673 🔗

It depends if you are going to eat, or going to eat and drink. If its the latter, you should stand on one leg only with a teapot on your head and then you will be ok.

205030 ▶▶▶▶ l835, replying to john, 3, #1277 of 1673 🔗

Thank you John. I feel much safer now!!

205009 ▶▶ john, replying to Hubes, 10, #1278 of 1673 🔗

If you buy a toaster, people will die. Don’t be a toastidiot.
Signed, Piers Morgan.

205044 ▶▶▶ Hubes, replying to john, 5, #1279 of 1673 🔗

I just saw some selfish Covid denier buying a kettle. If somebody’s gran dies now and isn’t around for Christmas then we know why. Name and shame them on social media.

205236 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Hubes, #1280 of 1673 🔗

It was a fuzz in disguise, they need to kettle all those dangerous anti-lockdowners.

205078 ▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to john, 4, #1281 of 1673 🔗

Wrap yourself in clingfilm and hop to work.

205231 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to john, 1, #1282 of 1673 🔗

Protect the NHS, use the grill.

205026 ▶▶ mhcp, replying to Hubes, 4, #1283 of 1673 🔗

Gremlins had a better plot

205073 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to Hubes, 2, #1284 of 1673 🔗

I have four alternative options:

– Sack Whitty

– Sack Vallance

– Sack Hancock

– Appoint Yeadon as Chief Medical, Scientific and Everything Else Officer.

205230 ▶▶ annie, replying to Hubes, #1285 of 1673 🔗

Toast Dripfeed.
Cosh Wancock.
Walk past Boris in the opposite direction and kick him in the goolies.
Stay out all night breaking the windows of Covid zombies to let in all that nice fresh air.

Stay sane folks.

204981 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 19, #1286 of 1673 🔗

Fascinating read from someone working with therapeutic nebulisations of viruses .He also have some very interesting views of the dangers of selectively stopping immunity to C-19


“Raises the question.. Are the masks stopping large droplets or nebulizing them into Aerosols? Aerosols are smaller than 5um and more infective. They are more monodispersed and less likely to precipitate out of the air with humidity.”
“The focus has been myopic ironically. It is focused on the reduction of large droplets while failing to consider if the larger droplets are getting nebulized into smaller ones.
If you study the field you will see viral nebulization is a technique used to get higher infectivity of viruses. This is used with ventilator patients suffering from pseudomonas aeruginosa infections. Nebulize bacteriaphage to get deep into the lungs and kill bacteria.”

“Human coronavirus immunity is known to wane in 2-4 year cycles.
What happens when the whole world distances while these viruses continue to evolve? They have other hosts. Bats, Pangolins, ferrets, minks, cats, dogs… pretty much anything with ACE2 receptors.”

“Our ancestors paid it forward by building a vibrant free market economy that took these slight infections risks while building immunity. Our generation is too selfish. They want everyone else to hide to help them and have no time preference for the future. C19 is here.
But C20 or C21 is going to be a bitch.”

204992 ▶▶ Rosie, replying to swedenborg, 5, #1287 of 1673 🔗

Send that to Toby, Swedenborg

205061 ▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Rosie, 7, #1288 of 1673 🔗

Why? I don’t see this helps our case at all and it reads like a form of fear-mongering. The CV19 virus has gone, just about everywhere in Europe. Mike Yeadon says that immunity from coronavirus can last decades not 2 – 4 years and he knows his stuff! Most European countries have already seen off CV19, by and large, so this stuff may only apply to countries that are trying for the impossible dream of hiding from it. ‘Zero Covid’ is of course yet another psyop.

What we have in northern Europe is a ‘case-demic’ or opportunistic fear-porning about normal levels of respiratory illness for autumn. Of course people are still going to hospital with respiratory infections but few of them are really CV19 and even if they are, so what?

The UK mania for testing healthy people is simply prolonging this tyranny. The risk to the general population is now minuscule. Yeadon says that other countries are scaling down testing so why has Der Fuhrer ordered millions of tests and ploughing on with ‘Operation Moonshot’? As Yeadon asks, ‘Why is isn’t the epidemic over?’ Answer: ‘Because SAGE says it’s not’.

If anyone has not yet heard James Delingpole interview Mike Yeadon, it really is a must-listen and goes much further than the cautious approach of the GBD. He does not pull his punches and he is really angry with the lies Valance and co are telling. He is also rightly worried where this is going. If we don’t address this basic issue i.e. that the whole lockdown charade is just that, we are sunk. https://www.podbean.com/media/share/pb-atukd-efc5d9

Just composing our leaflets. . . . MW

205115 ▶▶▶▶ Leemc23, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 1, #1289 of 1673 🔗

Immunity might wane in time, but it’s actually only a matter of symptoms. While your immunity is “high” you will never notice you have the virus. When your immunity is lower it would likely only mean you have mild symptoms. As far as I know, and it’s mostly just my own reassurance research, if you get it again and your immunity is low if the virus is mostly the same it won’t result in a major issue for you. So any doom mongers need to find another thing to be scared of.

205001 ▶▶ swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 7, #1290 of 1673 🔗

“Back to masks to address a question.
Imagine 50um spittle hits mask with high velocity and 90% of it wets the mask but 10% of it aerosols into less than 5um particles and those small ones are 10x more infective.
This isn’t as simple as pissing your pants”
Kevin McKernan

205014 ▶▶ Henry, replying to swedenborg, 3, #1291 of 1673 🔗

Fascinating read, thank you

205036 ▶▶ Mark, replying to swedenborg, 3, #1292 of 1673 🔗

Yes, very interesting suggestion, thanks. I guess we have another potential mechanism alongside contact contamination that might make masks actually exacerbate spread or severity.

Makes me even more interested to see what the Danish study found.

205052 ▶▶ DRW, replying to swedenborg, 7, #1293 of 1673 🔗

And of course we all know trousers stop farts.

205065 ▶▶▶ John P, replying to DRW, 1, #1294 of 1673 🔗

lol, good one to tell the next zealot you meet!

204995 Eddie, replying to Eddie, 6, #1295 of 1673 🔗

I tell ya what, if they close my gym down again I will be stripped of my only enjoyment in life right now. Wouldn’t be long until I might begin to slip away for good.

205091 ▶▶ Bill h, replying to Eddie, 4, #1296 of 1673 🔗

Don’t slip away – resist!

205222 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Bill h, #1297 of 1673 🔗

You must be fit from all that gym. All you need us lots of nosh and you won’t slip away.

205312 ▶▶▶ Rosie, replying to Bill h, 2, #1298 of 1673 🔗

Use your strength to fight. Read or watch The Lord of the Rings to help your mindset.

205021 Cecil B, replying to Cecil B, 13, #1299 of 1673 🔗

Are lamposts essential?. Is rope essential?

205190 ▶▶ Dave Tee, replying to Cecil B, 2, #1300 of 1673 🔗

Mussolini would say, no.

205199 ▶▶ annie, replying to Cecil B, 1, #1301 of 1673 🔗

They are useful if you don’t have an axe handy.

205025 stefarm, replying to stefarm, 6, #1302 of 1673 🔗

Clocks go back tonight, can somebody let Coroni know

205039 ▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to stefarm, 4, #1303 of 1673 🔗

Don’t worry if he can work out if your sitting doWn or not in a pub then I’m sure he can work out the difference between GMT and British summer time

205047 ▶▶▶ Hubes, replying to Jonathan Palmer, #1304 of 1673 🔗

It’s works out the different times all over the world, an hour difference in the uk will be nothing for it.

205108 ▶▶ Leemc23, replying to stefarm, #1305 of 1673 🔗

Shit. There will be some major confusion tomorrow at 10pm in the 1/3 of the country that’s still open.

205119 ▶▶ Laura Suckling, replying to stefarm, 6, #1306 of 1673 🔗

That’s all we fucking need another hour of this year.

205437 ▶▶ Edward, replying to stefarm, #1307 of 1673 🔗

(Covid thinks) Great, an extra hour to infect people!

205048 Cecil B, replying to Cecil B, 2, #1308 of 1673 🔗

‘You ignorant servile scum what the fuck are we doing here’

Is that Herr Drakford on the back of the horse drawn wagon?


205203 ▶▶ annie, replying to Cecil B, #1309 of 1673 🔗

I think the word you want is ‘tumbril’.

205227 ▶▶▶ Bill h, replying to annie, #1310 of 1673 🔗


We will need a fleet of them of course.

Leased from Serco 🙂

205051 ianric, replying to ianric, 1, #1311 of 1673 🔗

Has it been established if Covid is more infectious than flu and has symptoms not found in flu.

205107 ▶▶ Leemc23, replying to ianric, #1312 of 1673 🔗

It acts differently in the body than flu in that it does affect Major organs in a different way. The way your immune system reacts is essentially the same and the symptoms, I believe, are your immune response rather than the virus itself.

205158 ▶▶ peter, replying to ianric, -1, #1313 of 1673 🔗

covid hasn’t been proved to even exist

205053 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 5, #1314 of 1673 🔗

https://twitter.com/ElonBachman/status/1320007484380205058 “More hints that the Danish mask study found no protection for the wearer. https://twitter.com/henrik_ullum/status/1320004570697826304 “It is also important that scientific evidence never relies on one single study. For instance source control (does my mask protect you?) is not examined in our DANMASK study.

205062 ▶▶ DRW, replying to swedenborg, 6, #1315 of 1673 🔗

All this scrutiny over a proper human RCT opposing masks yet a quickly-retracted hamster observation was enough to support them.

205066 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to swedenborg, 4, #1316 of 1673 🔗

It won’t change much for us then surely, we will still be compelled to wear masks to protect others.

205209 ▶▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to A. Contrarian, #1317 of 1673 🔗

It’s never been about medicine.
It’s solely a Gessler’s hat.

205074 ▶▶ Achilles, replying to swedenborg, 8, #1318 of 1673 🔗

Even if the study found they provided a lot of protection they still shouldn’t be mandatory. It’s the simple principle of personal liberty.

205086 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Achilles, 4, #1319 of 1673 🔗

That’s what I was trying to get at earlier. To steal Sumption’s phrases, liberty is not absolute but it has a very high value. Call me selfish, but the benefits would have to be considerable for me to accept being muzzled for the rest of my life.

205103 ▶▶▶▶ Leemc23, replying to Julian, 2, #1320 of 1673 🔗

But you might reduce the prospect of killing someone’s nan by 0.0000000000000000000000001%!

205110 ▶▶▶▶▶ DRW, replying to Leemc23, 1, #1321 of 1673 🔗

“Even if it saves one life it’s worth it!”

205125 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to DRW, 5, #1322 of 1673 🔗

Answer : on that principle, the Battle of Britain should never have been fought; the white flag would have saved more lives.

Simple, isn’t it?

205132 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ DRW, replying to RickH, 3, #1323 of 1673 🔗

Well most zealots would have collaborated.

205362 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Ewan Duffy, replying to RickH, 1, #1324 of 1673 🔗

Same with the Falklands invasion. Argentina should have been let at it.

205100 ▶▶▶ Leemc23, replying to Achilles, #1325 of 1673 🔗

Yes and it’s a question of harm balance. You put in a control measure you should, in principle, balance the negatives from the control measure you put in place. And the negatives are at least equal to the benefit.

205170 ▶▶ Jakehadlee, replying to swedenborg, #1326 of 1673 🔗

I think it will show it harms you

205489 ▶▶▶ Alethea, replying to Jakehadlee, #1327 of 1673 🔗

If I could request anything at all from the goddess of Truth (lately much obscured behind a cloud), it would be that.

205214 ▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to swedenborg, #1328 of 1673 🔗

The Swiss doctor also has some ideas about it.

205068 p02099003, replying to p02099003, 29, #1329 of 1673 🔗

I’ve just watched part of the GMB interview with Maureen and her husband, I couldn’t stand much more of the GP. Sarah Jarvis was wrong when she said that they hadn’t lived through 6 pandemics, making reference to 1918 flu as the only one worse than this. I’ve lived through 3 previous pandemics since the 1950’s, Asian flu 1958, Hong Kong flu 1968 and HIV/AIDS all of which have had mortality rates greater than SARS-COV-2.

205070 ▶▶ Leemc23, replying to p02099003, 11, #1330 of 1673 🔗


Give 500 x the feedback 🙂

That GP is on my hit list today and on my shit list forever

205080 ▶▶▶ Riffman, replying to Leemc23, 12, #1331 of 1673 🔗

Always been a first rate ‘know it all’ bitch!

205093 ▶▶▶▶ Leemc23, replying to Riffman, 6, #1332 of 1673 🔗

Never seen her before, shocked that she has a public platform. “500 times more likely”. Astonishing

205088 ▶▶ Fingerache Philip., replying to p02099003, 6, #1333 of 1673 🔗

Snap, plus various serious illnesses such as Polio, Diphtheria,Measles and Typhoid.

205149 ▶▶▶ p02099003, replying to Fingerache Philip., 4, #1334 of 1673 🔗

I was only 2 when the Asian flu pandemic was around. I was fortunate to have polio and diphtheria inoculations. I think that some people believe that the mid 20th century was disease free, yet I think we were in some ways healthier.
Measles is still endemic, from Wikipedia “ In 2000 alone, measles killed some 777,000 worldwide out of 40 million cases globally
People seem to forget these sort of facts.

205388 ▶▶▶▶ p02099003, replying to p02099003, 1, #1335 of 1673 🔗

The IFR for measles in 2000 was 1.95%

205134 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to p02099003, 10, #1336 of 1673 🔗

Tried to watch it but had to switch off midway as couldn’t stand Sarah Jarvis and her patronising drivel.

She should be struck off the medical register after this.

205135 ▶▶ RickH, replying to p02099003, 4, #1337 of 1673 🔗

Oh – you’ve lived through far more serious episodes than that. 7 since 1993.

2019/20 was nothing particularly exceptional at all.

205161 ▶▶▶ p02099003, replying to RickH, 3, #1338 of 1673 🔗

These were pandemics as defined by the WHO that were present in the U.K., there have been other pandemics in other areas of the world, including cholera. We’ve had epidemics of measles and other diseases, but these didn’t meet the definition of a pandemic. Sarah Jarvis specifically stated that they couldn’t have lived through 6 pandemics unless they were at least 101 years old.

205308 ▶▶▶▶ Rosie, replying to p02099003, 2, #1339 of 1673 🔗

They’ve changed the definition of a pandemic. Listen here, even though its hard work, it’s excellent https://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2020/10/17/coronavirus-fraud-biggest-crime-against-humanity.aspx

205379 ▶▶▶▶▶ p02099003, replying to Rosie, 1, #1340 of 1673 🔗

I realise they changed the definition in 2009 or thereabouts, but the ones I referred to are under the original definition. The current situation would not count as a pandemic under the old definition, as it was based on deaths and hospitalisations of patients having the disease, not just a positive test for the virus (which didn’t exist prior to the HIV/AIDS pandemic in the 80’s and so a pandemic had to depend on a clinical definition)

205163 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to p02099003, 4, #1341 of 1673 🔗

I may be wrong but think there were polio pandemics as well.

205309 ▶▶▶ Rosie, replying to OKUK, 1, #1342 of 1673 🔗

You’re right. My husband had it in about 1970 which was well covered up.

205384 ▶▶▶ p02099003, replying to OKUK, 1, #1343 of 1673 🔗

There were epidemics of polio in this country in the 50’s and 60’s, also in the USA, but they didn’t meet the original criteria to be declared as pandemics. There are currently epidemics of polio in India (?) and some African countries being blamed on vaccines.

205072 A. Contrarian, replying to A. Contrarian, 11, #1344 of 1673 🔗

What is New Zealand’s take on the news that the vaccine won’t be required to prevent infection or death? Are they going to remain in isolation with sealed borders forever, or finally admit that they will have to accept the arrival of “cases”?

205081 ▶▶ DRW, replying to A. Contrarian, 2, #1345 of 1673 🔗

Wait for a 100% effective one maybe? Which may as well be in isolation forever.

205191 ▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to DRW, 2, #1346 of 1673 🔗

Good luck to them then!

205097 ▶▶ Draper233, replying to A. Contrarian, 13, #1347 of 1673 🔗

Yep, i’m still waiting to hear NZ’s end game. None of the flag-waving zealots seem to have an answer for me yet.

205192 ▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Draper233, 3, #1348 of 1673 🔗

It’s inconvenient. I’m sure they were all convinced they would get their jabs and be 100% immune, safe and protected. It will be interesting to see what happens.

205129 ▶▶ Will, replying to A. Contrarian, 9, #1349 of 1673 🔗

Get rid of the nauseating woman with the teeth…

205162 ▶▶▶ Ossettian, replying to Will, 2, #1350 of 1673 🔗


Isn’t there film of her with the same sort of bulge as Mike Obama?

205166 ▶▶▶ John P, replying to Will, 3, #1351 of 1673 🔗

She just won an election by a landslide. They seem to like her. (Don’t ask me why!)

205204 ▶▶▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to John P, 2, #1352 of 1673 🔗

Reason has only ever been with the few.

205217 ▶▶▶▶ Will, replying to John P, #1353 of 1673 🔗

So did Johnson. The tide can turn very quickly.

205289 ▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to John P, 1, #1354 of 1673 🔗

Perhaps they just like catastrophes: earthquakes, pandemics, landslides. To be serious, I think Kiwis were traumatised by their earthquake. People here don’t understand how much damage it caused.

205202 ▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to A. Contrarian, 1, #1355 of 1673 🔗

Sentinel Island 2.0.

205077 Stuart, replying to Stuart, 5, #1356 of 1673 🔗

If the Cardiff Bay Nazis really want to stop motorists fleeing the hell-hole they should close the Severn Bridges to civilian traffic for the duration.

Only by ramping up the Snot Patrol and its bogus PCR tests can we bring this thing to an end, once we all have “tested positive”.


205101 ▶▶ Ovis, replying to Stuart, 8, #1357 of 1673 🔗

That ends nothing, because ‘there is no such thing as herd immunity.’ It won’t be enough to have had the rona. Instead, we will have to prove that we don’t have it every day for ever. Test, test, test!

205102 ▶▶ DRW, replying to Stuart, 1, #1358 of 1673 🔗

Not just those but also the A48 to the Forest of Dean. Lydney can make a killing out of Chepstow smugglers.

205208 ▶▶ annie, replying to Stuart, 2, #1359 of 1673 🔗

Not Nazis. Stalinists.
Worse than Nazis. Yes, it is possible.

205089 Tenchy, replying to Tenchy, 11, #1360 of 1673 🔗

The Telegraph:

“Armed police officers have dispersed large crowds of anti-lockdown protesters at Trafalgar Square following a march through central London.”

Armed? Were they? Why?

205105 ▶▶ captainbeefheart, replying to Tenchy, 5, #1361 of 1673 🔗

All it takes is for one of these robots to totally lose the plot and those scruffy, horrible, dirty protesters will be sprayed with machine gun bullets. For their own safety of course.

“I was trying to shoot the virus out of the air” said one officer.

205116 ▶▶ Laura Suckling, replying to Tenchy, 6, #1362 of 1673 🔗

I was at the protest, it was peaceful and friendly. Some police officers stood in front of us mumbling (behind their masks) probably about ‘social distancing’ but just sidestepped.

205302 ▶▶ Rosie, replying to Tenchy, 3, #1363 of 1673 🔗

By the time the police arrived shortly after 4pm the crowds has disappeared. There might have been armed uniformed men there (I saw them closeup but saw no guns), but whatever they were, they weren’t police.

205090 Country Mumkin, #1364 of 1673 🔗

Well if the number of people testing goes down, what do they do? They test our sh*t!

205095 Tenchy, replying to Tenchy, 14, #1365 of 1673 🔗

The Welsh Scum has offered this explanation for their lunatic rules:

“The purpose of selling essential items only during firebreak is to discourage spending more time than necessary in shops and to be fair to retailers who have to close.

“This is not for the sake of being difficult – we need to do everything we can to minimise the time we spend outside our homes. This will help save lives and protect the NHS.”

I see we’re back to “protecting the NHS”. As many have pointed out, I thought they were there to protect us.

205111 ▶▶ Gavroche, replying to Tenchy, 19, #1366 of 1673 🔗

I’ve just polished off a very tasty chocolate sponge pudding with cream on top. I’m now worried that this was a piece of non-essential consumption that may kill my granny (both of whom died in the 1970s but you never know…). Granted I don’t actually live in Wales but I have been there on a number of occasion and, now I think of it, my mother’s maiden name was Evans. Do you think I should have asked Drakeford for permission? Should I admit my heinous crime and hand myself in to the Welsh constabulary?

All and any advice on this moral dilemma would be gratefully received.

205130 ▶▶▶ Liz F, replying to Gavroche, 7, #1367 of 1673 🔗

Say three ‘hail sponge puddings’ and have a second helping. With chocolate sprinkles.

205233 ▶▶▶▶ Gavroche, replying to Liz F, 2, #1368 of 1673 🔗

Most excellent response. Thanks, Liz.

205212 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Gavroche, 3, #1369 of 1673 🔗

Eat pudding.
Fuck Drakeford.

205266 ▶▶▶▶ James Hargrave, replying to annie, 1, #1370 of 1673 🔗

Since he is a leaking anal fistula, perhaps not. Paper in printer cartridges are also deemed inessential by my local Tesco, though not by my local post office.

205396 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Gavroche, 2, #1371 of 1673 🔗

Might be a good ploy to piss off the Police and Councils by taking your shopping list in to ask if they can tell you what’s essential and what isn’t.

205521 ▶▶▶ Nsklent, replying to Gavroche, #1372 of 1673 🔗

Must be repeated every Saturday evening until normality resumes.

205141 ▶▶ john, replying to Tenchy, 6, #1373 of 1673 🔗

Because everyone knows that people will linger when buying a toaster. Last time I brought one, I was in the supermarket for 23 hours. Toasters kill.
Luckily, no one in Wales has heard of Amazon, so the retailers who had to close need not worry…

205154 ▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to john, 3, #1374 of 1673 🔗

People will just linger in the food aisles much longer, with less social distancing. Well done Turtlehead!

205155 ▶▶ Al T, replying to Tenchy, 10, #1375 of 1673 🔗

Yes, once again, the messianic cult of the NHS is being dragged out like some 21st Century Wicker Man. Lockdowns and masks and social distancing will appease our God and mean we are allowed out again. Briefly.

And the BBC are giving Ferguson oxygen again. Is the twat not sufficiently discredited?

I’m feeling particularly saturnine this evening. I fear this will never be over.

205165 ▶▶▶ DRW, replying to Al T, 2, #1376 of 1673 🔗

Same, it is not looking good.

205262 ▶▶▶ Jakehadlee, replying to Al T, 3, #1377 of 1673 🔗

The end is near – I’m sure of it. For this shit, and for the BBC

205311 ▶▶▶▶ Al T, replying to Jakehadlee, 3, #1378 of 1673 🔗

I certainly hope you are correct but think we are changed as a nation irrevocably by the response to Covid.

The next time a respiratory illness rises in the East, I fear that demands for lockdowns, restrictions and masks will resurface.

205363 ▶▶▶▶▶ Lili, replying to Al T, 5, #1379 of 1673 🔗

I think trust in state sanctioned organisations and in scientists has been badly damaged. Personally, I now feel completely separated from society. I didn’t realise just how many thick, unthinking, cowardly and easily cowed people there were. Perhaps this is how it’s always been and this insane episode has brought it into the open.

205394 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Ceriain, replying to Lili, 2, #1380 of 1673 🔗

I think trust in state sanctioned organisations and in scientists has been badly damaged.

I couldn’t agree more. Politicians, Police, Scientists (some) have totally lost the trust of some people (us, at least).

For a lot of people, especially sceptics, the word ‘expert’ has come to mean ‘bullshitter’.

205421 ▶▶▶▶▶ Edward, replying to Al T, #1381 of 1673 🔗

I fear you are correct. A permanent anti-lockdown campaign or organisation will therefore be needed.

205198 ▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to Tenchy, 1, #1382 of 1673 🔗

Welsh doctors tee times need to be protected. Nothing more, nothing less.

205515 ▶▶ Nsklent, replying to Tenchy, #1383 of 1673 🔗

Especially after they have had 8 months to prepare for any winter surges. But no criticism from msm.I am sick to death of having our whole way of life shattered on the alter of a health care system, that is already responsible for 16000 deaths and counting due to neglect and poor delivery of rightful healthcare. As for GPs, they need to be issued with legal cases of neglect and corporate manslaughter where necessary.

205099 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 5, #1384 of 1673 🔗

If they are so bad in taking the sample correctly at an academic hospital,how do you think it would be in a privately run field testing centre?


Accuracy of Healthcare Professionals’ Nasopharyngeal Swab Technique in SARS-CoV-2 Specimen Collection :”A prospective study of nasopharyngeal swab technique by staff in an academic tertiary referral centre was carried out. Nasopharyngeal swab technique was evaluated by a novel design of a navigated swab on a three-dimensional model head. Results: Swab technique of 228 participants was assessed. Technique was poor, with a success rate of nasopharyngeal swabbing at 38.6%. Angle and length of insertion were significantly different between those with successful and unsuccessful technique. Doctors were significantly more accurate than nurses and non-healthcare professionals (p<0.01).
 “Conclusion: Inaccurate specimen collection from poor swab technique could contribute to false negative rate of testing for SARS-CoV-2. Specific training in nasopharyngeal anatomy and swab technique may improve the accuracy of nasopharyngeal swabbing.

205109 ▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to swedenborg, 8, #1385 of 1673 🔗

Mike Yeadon thinks the false positive rate is approaching 100% thanks to this kind of thing. Either way, the fear-porn level stays high and we stay in our various lockdowns until the health passport is ready. MW

205123 ▶▶▶ Henry, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, #1386 of 1673 🔗

How would this affect the false positive rate? Surely it could about affect the false negatives?

I thought MY said false positive rate could be up to 15% but if we say 5%, of 300k tests, would be most of the current positive results.

205139 ▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to Henry, 2, #1387 of 1673 🔗

Yes, I think the principle is that the FPR might be (say) 5% of all tests taken , but that 5% might be getting on for 100% of all of the positive results.

So if you tested 100,000 people on one day at a FPR of 5% that would give 5000 false positive results.

If they then announced that there were 5500 positive test results that day would mean that 5000/5500×100 = 91% of the positive results were false positive results.

205291 ▶▶▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to John P, 1, #1388 of 1673 🔗

Thanks, you saved me the job. MW

205146 ▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Henry, #1389 of 1673 🔗

Probably different percentages. 20 positives, of which 10 are false positives, out of 100 tests, is a False Positive Rate of 10% but the number of False Positives is 100% of the number of genuine positives.

205113 ▶▶ Old Normal, replying to swedenborg, 1, #1390 of 1673 🔗

That’s an interesting point. where I am in Scotland, they are now asking people to do their own swabs in the car.

205128 ▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Old Normal, 3, #1391 of 1673 🔗

What a farce. MW

205145 ▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to Old Normal, 3, #1392 of 1673 🔗

Hardly a sterile environment, joke isn’t it. Everything about this testing nonsense is a scam.

205216 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Old Normal, 3, #1393 of 1673 🔗

How many cars have tested positive so far?

205228 ▶▶▶▶ Dave Tee, replying to annie, 4, #1394 of 1673 🔗

1960s bubble cars are in the clear, anyway.

205513 ▶▶▶ Silke David, replying to Old Normal, #1395 of 1673 🔗

A lot of my ex-colleagues worked at Stansted testing station, they have always handed people the kit through the slightest gap in the car window and then they had to do the test on themselves. At least one person per day throws up.

205127 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to swedenborg, #1396 of 1673 🔗

So what to say about self testing at home, as many people are, before popping it in the post? Falsenegatives guaranteed…some may even be deliberate.

False negatives mean of course that infectious people are being encouraged back into the workplace

205131 ▶▶▶ peter, replying to OKUK, #1397 of 1673 🔗

You what? False negatives demonstrate the covid charade is a total hoax.

205183 ▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to peter, #1398 of 1673 🔗

are you confusing false negatives with false positives peter?

205269 ▶▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to John P, 2, #1399 of 1673 🔗

Think he must. False negatives just show what nonsense is bleated by the politicians and epidemiologists about thd importance of testing and tracing.

205151 ▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to OKUK, 3, #1400 of 1673 🔗

Is anybody truly infectious? Apart from usual seasonal colds is anybody dangerously sick?

I struggle to understand the charade of so many people being sick and walking death traps

205156 ▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to stefarm, 2, #1401 of 1673 🔗

I would think that you might be infectious in the week or so before you develop symptoms, and in the two weeks or so that you have symptoms, but once the symptoms have gone then you are not infectious because your body has defeated (ie killed) the virus.

I’m not convinced that you can be truly asymptomatic. I suspect (but do not know for sure) that all of those that are entirely asymptomatic are just false positives.

205164 ▶▶▶▶▶ peter, replying to John P, -11, #1402 of 1673 🔗

you are a shill

205176 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to peter, 2, #1403 of 1673 🔗

No, I am not. I am here to have intelligent debate with like minded people.

I very much look forward to the end of this covid charade and have often very forcefully said exactly what I think of Johnson and his government.

If you think that of me, “peter” then I can’t help you.

205294 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to peter, 1, #1404 of 1673 🔗

Dear Peter

John P has been posting here for ages and I’ve seen no evidence he’s a shill

Can you explain why you think this?

205168 ▶▶▶▶▶ Jane in France, replying to John P, 1, #1405 of 1673 🔗

Not sure about being infectious before you develop symptoms. Just a personal anecdote, but I had covid back at the beginning of March – dry cough, temperature. Lunchtime drink with friends and tea in the afternoon the day before the onset of symptoms yet nobody else fell ill.

205175 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to Jane in France, 3, #1406 of 1673 🔗

The time when you are most infectious is just before you develop symptoms as the onset of symptoms is usually a sign that the body’s immune system has woken up and has begun fighting and killing the virus.

Before the immune system recognises that there is anything wrong the virus can multiply unchecked.

Viral particles remain in the body for up to three months after the infection has gone and I think accounts for most of the false positives. The PCR test cannot distinguish between live, viable virus and pieces of dead virus.

205240 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Steve Martindale, replying to John P, #1407 of 1673 🔗

I sometimes think of this as the lottery virus, they reckon that for whatever reason only about 1 in 10 people who get the virus actually do any significant spread of the virus. These are the so called super spreaders, so to get going this virus needs a big social gathering so that there is a chance of it finding the 1 in 10 super spreaders.
Why most people who get this virus do not spread it is something for which I have not seen an explanation.
As a disease that initially infects the upper respiratory tract my understanding of immunity is that whilst you may get the virus in your upper respiratory tract it never develops into Covid disease. I understand that this is how the vaccine is supposed to work and so you can be immune and still test +ve.

Regarding the test it was designed as an aid to clinical investigation it was never designed for mass screening with major policy decisions taken on just the test results. This misuse of the test has underpinned much of the current nonsense and tomfoolery.

205258 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to Steve Martindale, 2, #1408 of 1673 🔗

Well yes I agree. You are absolutely right about the PCR test. It was designed as a lab tool to increase sample sizes for scientific exploration. It was never designed as a diagnostic tool.

I think the central point is – who has actually got the virus?

The PCR test is so unreliable as a diagnostic tool that I don’t think you can be sure of who has it unless they actually have symptoms as well. In which case they may be inclined to stay at home anyway if they are feeling unwell as you would if you had a cold.

I’m not sure there are “super spreaders”. I think that term is probably a part of the government propaganda, but the whole thing is farcical Steve. I don’t think people know what to believe half the time. I struggle with it and I like to think I have a reasonable understanding of it.

205286 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Steve Martindale, 2, #1409 of 1673 🔗

I don’t believe the super-spreader myth. The Lockdownists started coming out with this BS to explain away the abject failure of lockdown strategies (as shown by the world death rate league). They attempt to link it to the efficacy of test and trace. But of course one of the most obvious things about a “super-spreader” is that they will be very easy to trace as so many fingers will be pointing at them. The people who don’t register with test and trace are the false negatives. We now know there could be large numbers of those.

205446 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to John P, 2, #1410 of 1673 🔗

The basic problem is that the PCR test isn’t fit for purpose – because what it’s being used for was never its purpose!

205447 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to RickH, #1411 of 1673 🔗

Yes, exactly.

205211 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to Jane in France, 1, #1412 of 1673 🔗

PS: it may just mean that the virus is not very infectious.

A woman who my sister knows – as her daughter is best friends with her daughter – apparently has covid now, but my sister told me that nobody else in the woman’s family has caught it from her.

It’s quite ironic as the woman who has it is a lockdown zealot.

205276 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to John P, 2, #1413 of 1673 🔗

They provably have immunity.

205274 ▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to stefarm, 3, #1414 of 1673 🔗

I’m with Yeadon. There was a genuine pandemic in the spring. It is now trailing into endemic insignificance. Lockdowns never stopped the virus. Neither do masks. It’s still v infectious, there’s just less of it about now we are v close to herd immunity.

205511 ▶▶▶▶▶ Nsklent, replying to OKUK, #1415 of 1673 🔗

I have doubts how infectious it was or is. It wasdowngraded from an HCID prior to lockdown in March, a very important point all media have avoided challenging the government with.

205160 ▶▶▶ John P, replying to OKUK, #1416 of 1673 🔗

Where the virus is not prevalent the rate of false negatives is very very low.

205201 ▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to John P, #1417 of 1673 🔗

Which means that there are going to be very very few people who have the virus, but who test negative.

By contrast the rate of false positives is very high when prevalence of the virus is very low.

205224 ▶▶▶ BeBopRockSteady, replying to OKUK, #1418 of 1673 🔗

And track and trace is absolutely insane. The more you try and suppress false positives on these tests, by increasing the sensitivity, you have to pay for that with false negatives as its picking up any old thing.

It’s the fire reason why PCR testing is not to be used for mass screening of population in the midst of an epidemic. It leads to rabbit hole policy making and monumental waste of resource.

Here’s a good summary of the false positive issue.


205150 ▶▶ RickH, replying to swedenborg, 3, #1419 of 1673 🔗

Strikes me that if swabbing takes so much manipulation, then the incidental transmission of any virus is about as likely as winning the lottery.

205124 Bart Simpson, 17, #1420 of 1673 🔗

Was out today so have not had time to read many of of the comments.

After a successful day trip to Windsor last Thursday, Mr Bart and I set off for Colchester today and I had to say, the contrast with two days ago was like night and day.

While Windsor was refreshingly normal under these insane circumstances, Colchester was pretty much by the book when it came to implementing any “safety” regulations. We were taken aback by questions about being in the same household and the rude way I was asked if I had a muzzle.

Loads of people muzzled in the outdoors even a few kids!!

Perhaps this slavish adherence to the rules is the reason why the high street looked rather sad and depressing with several shops advertising closing down sales.

It was great to have seen the Roman ruins and the outside of the castle (didn’t bother to go in as pre-booking was required and Mr Bart refused to wear a muzzle) however I don’t think we shall ever return.

Dystopian rating: 9/10 compared to Windsor’s 3.5/10

205138 Nic, replying to Nic, 5, #1421 of 1673 🔗

We will limp.through to xmas with all these stupid restrictions but it will all fall apart at the festive period .But they will announce a vaccine for march to keep us compliant, of course it wont happen.

205147 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Nic, 3, #1422 of 1673 🔗

My 9 year-old granddaughter assured me that the mockdown won’t end till March.

205174 ▶▶▶ GiftWrappedKittyCat, replying to Cheezilla, 2, #1423 of 1673 🔗

I’ve always maintained it will be March too.

205179 ▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Cheezilla, 8, #1424 of 1673 🔗

I think she’s right. They can’t let us out until spring now, because the NHS is overwhelmed every winter from flu and seasonal illness and if/when the same happens this year they will be blamed for not stopping covid.

205188 ▶▶▶ Bugle, replying to Cheezilla, 8, #1425 of 1673 🔗

Nine year olds. I’m surprised it’s being decided at such a high level.

205329 ▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Cheezilla, 7, #1426 of 1673 🔗

My 9-year old daughter was relating again today her theory that aliens have taken over the government and controlling people via masks.

205398 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Mr Dee, 3, #1427 of 1673 🔗

The 9 year-olds are exhibiting a level of perception sadly lacking in many of their elders.

205330 ▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Cheezilla, 8, #1428 of 1673 🔗

Also my psychic wife predicts March. She predicted an October lockdown months ago. She has some interesting insight into the fates of Boris and of Drakeford. It doesn’t end well for them.

205350 ▶▶▶▶ CGL, replying to Mr Dee, 4, #1429 of 1673 🔗

Ooh good – can’t wait!

205385 ▶▶▶▶ GiftWrappedKittyCat, replying to Mr Dee, 3, #1430 of 1673 🔗

Ooohh, tell us more. Hearing about the grim fates of Boris, Drakeford et al will give us sustenance over the grim months ahead.

205143 Marialta, replying to Marialta, 11, #1431 of 1673 🔗


this is such a well written and clear explanation of how the public has been duped it’s going to blow a few minds

205288 ▶▶ Rosie, replying to Marialta, #1432 of 1673 🔗

Thank you. There’s more information here, and I’ll add that one as well

205144 Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, 21, #1433 of 1673 🔗

DS phoned for a rant and some commiseration.

An idiot at work had the sniffles and stupidly went for a covid test. Came back positive, so the whole workshop has had to close down till they all get negative tests back.

If his comes back positive, he’s to survive on £75 for two weeks. That will just about cover his child maintainance and leave zilch for his stepkids. Presumably a positive result will mean his partner is also reduced to penury for a while.

Meanwhile, they’ve been crazy busy at work, so the orders will be backed up to nightmare proportions when they return.

Intresting how this kind of situation never gets covered in the Daily Fluffograph or the Flufftator.

205148 ▶▶ Leemc23, replying to Cheezilla, 13, #1434 of 1673 🔗

Sorry to read that. It’s not an acceptable situation. Nor is 80% wages or any of the other bribes they think they can throw at the public.


205172 ▶▶ GiftWrappedKittyCat, replying to Cheezilla, 22, #1435 of 1673 🔗

Anyone who voluntarily goes for a test needs a swift kick up the arse.

205177 ▶▶ Ossettian, replying to Cheezilla, -15, #1436 of 1673 🔗

What is a “DS”?

And why has he had children he can’t afford?

205215 ▶▶▶ Lockdown_Lunacy, replying to Ossettian, 8, #1437 of 1673 🔗

Unnecessary. Circumstances can change, and I imagine it would be hard to afford much if you’ve been forcibly prevented from working by government diktat. Add to that the threat of a substantial fine if you dare to continue going about your business.

Could happen to any of us at any time now, multiple times over potentially.

205284 ▶▶▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Lockdown_Lunacy, 6, #1438 of 1673 🔗

Circumstances can indeed change. I have gone from financially secure to on the brink within 7 months through no fault of my own whatsoever. Life savings used to pay off mortgage so at least they cannot take the roof above my head.

205290 ▶▶▶▶▶ JME, replying to Sarigan, 3, #1439 of 1673 🔗

Absolutely shocking. Thoughts are with you Sarigan ( & everyone else in a similar position). There has to be a price to pay for the idiots in charge.

205218 ▶▶▶ Henry, replying to Ossettian, 5, #1440 of 1673 🔗

DS – darling son

Is that what you took from that? Nowhere is here inference to having children he can’t afford. Shameful.

205245 ▶▶▶ mjr, replying to Ossettian, 7, #1441 of 1673 🔗

he can afford them if the government doesn’t stop him working … what an idiotic comment.

205278 ▶▶▶ Will, replying to Ossettian, 4, #1442 of 1673 🔗

Don’t be a dick.

205300 ▶▶▶ Draper233, replying to Ossettian, 5, #1443 of 1673 🔗

Dear oh dear.

If I wanted sanctimonious guff like that, I’d be on a zealot website.

205346 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Ossettian, 2, #1444 of 1673 🔗

It’s called marital breakdown. And normally he does afford – generously.
Don’t be such a tosser!

205157 DThom, replying to DThom, 14, #1445 of 1673 🔗

Just read the article in the DM regarding millions paid to consultants. Absolutely disgusting. What on earth are the civil service doing?
Is it not time that Krankie and Dragonford are made to finance their own stupid decisions!

205314 ▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to DThom, 4, #1446 of 1673 🔗

Dragonford is too grand a name for that non-entity. Please call him Dickfraud instead.

205196 Jay Berger, replying to Jay Berger, 14, #1447 of 1673 🔗

Personally, I think a new low was reached today in Germany, when a very vocal group of young people shouted down a group of mainly middle-aged lockdown protesters in Oldenburg with the chant:
“We will vaccinate you all!”
This is pure hatred, and a pogrom and Milgram atmosphere and attitude now.
By GenY/Z, in effing Germany, in 2020, for chrissake?!

205219 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Jay Berger, 8, #1448 of 1673 🔗

Little wankers

Heard from some friends abroad who are in their 80s, scared witless by the MSM, fucking leave them alone and let them get on with their lives, why do these self-righteous pricks think they are doing the elderly any favours by prolonging this misery?

205229 ▶▶ calchas, replying to Jay Berger, 6, #1449 of 1673 🔗

That’s the Antifa – ie not normal young people

205255 ▶▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to calchas, 1, #1450 of 1673 🔗

No, those were pretty representative scum.

205273 ▶▶▶▶ Silke David, replying to Jay Berger, 6, #1451 of 1673 🔗

The face coverings they all wear with so much enthusiasm gives them the anonymity and power.
I loved how the cameraperson from Klagepaten the other day had a run in with a youngster like that, who “does not speak with people who give right wing people a platform” and the cameraperson replied: “oh great, we can talk then”.

205281 ▶▶ DRW, replying to Jay Berger, 3, #1452 of 1673 🔗

Sadly us youngsters are probably the most zealous age group. But at the same time the local teenagers never stopped hanging out during Lockdown I, probably the only non-compliance round here back in the spring.

205207 Country Mumkin, replying to Country Mumkin, 37, #1453 of 1673 🔗

I’ve just been musing how brilliant people are the people doing all of this research. Brining it all to light. Dr Yeadon is an absolute hero. I’m really grateful that we have so many determined, clever and caring people seeking the truth. 🙏

205210 ▶▶ DRW, replying to Country Mumkin, 3, #1454 of 1673 🔗

Unfortunately the majority won’t believe it.

205232 ▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to DRW, 9, #1455 of 1673 🔗

So how are the government, SAGE, the NHS, and the MSM going to keep up the fear level when they run out of respiratory deaths? In fact yheyvd pretty much run out of them already.

205237 ▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to OKUK, 3, #1456 of 1673 🔗

It will be the Conservative Party that cracks first.

205241 ▶▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to OKUK, 10, #1457 of 1673 🔗

I think they’ll somehow just try to conflate it with flu deaths. If there’s a flu epidemic this year then we could find ourselves back in lockdown.

205352 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to John P, 5, #1458 of 1673 🔗

What is the likelihood of a major flu epidemic after Covid has picked all the low hanging fruit? Not impossible but very unlikely I would say.

205410 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to OKUK, 2, #1459 of 1673 🔗

I’m not sure that it has and besides we will all continue to get old.

Fruit is harvested every year from trees.

205565 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to John P, 2, #1460 of 1673 🔗

ScotlandWales,N Ireland are in lockdown and vast swathes of the North are in lockdown in all but name,London in semi lockdown.They are doing this on projected numbers from a dodgy test.It will be easy to maintain this throughout the winter.
The hardest thing will be to maintain order as the economy collapses and people belatedly wake up.I believe this is the purpose of social distancing measures and pub closures to keep people apart and prevent them from organising resistance.

205473 ▶▶▶▶▶ Alethea, replying to OKUK, 2, #1461 of 1673 🔗

Recently I found myself telling a student that I was pinning my hopes on capitalism. A refreshingly novel sentiment for a Labour-voting feminist academic.

205538 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Alethea, 1, #1462 of 1673 🔗

Indeed. The Conservative Party in the UK is not the party of Big Tech billionaires. It can’t ignore the UK SME businesses that are its backbone. However much MPs are corrupted by the globalists, they know they have to get voted on.

205250 ▶▶▶▶ DRW, replying to OKUK, 4, #1463 of 1673 🔗

They nearly have so they’ve just switched to “cases” and hospital capacity instead.

205257 ▶▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to DRW, 8, #1464 of 1673 🔗

People are gullible but not stupid. A pandemic with no deaths is not a pandemic.

205279 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Yawnyaman, replying to OKUK, 4, #1465 of 1673 🔗

I think the rise in positive tests with few or no symptoms is having an effect. Now pretty well everyone knows someone who’s experience was ‘ was that it?’.

205371 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to OKUK, 10, #1466 of 1673 🔗

People are not stupid???
This whole shitshow has been one long demonstration of the fact that people, or at least sheeple ( nearly the same thing) are INFINITELY stupid.

205543 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to annie, 2, #1467 of 1673 🔗

Gullible not stupid. Gullibility is a product of innocence.

Ordinary people find it difficult to understand how politicians, business people and religious leaders can lie so brazenly.

It’s not stupidity on the part of people.

They just think other people work to the same standards of honesty they do. Naive but not stupid.

205390 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ The Filthy Engineer, replying to OKUK, 4, #1468 of 1673 🔗

“Two things are infinite : the universe and human stupidity ; and I’m not sure about the universe.” ― Albert Einstein.

205546 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to The Filthy Engineer, #1469 of 1673 🔗

Another fake Einstein quote? You Einstein Quotists are so gullible!

205235 ▶▶▶ Cecil B, replying to DRW, 8, #1470 of 1673 🔗

It’s a cult, they will go to their graves believing

205253 ▶▶▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to Cecil B, 9, #1471 of 1673 🔗

Germany 1945.
They can change their mind only after the catastrophe has happened.
And the majority will still be secret believers up until their deaths.

205337 ▶▶▶▶▶ Chris Hume, replying to Jay Berger, 6, #1472 of 1673 🔗

A very interesting analogy Jay, and one I believe is apposite here. I wrote my thesis many years ago about propaganda in Nazi Germany and got marked down because i concluded that despite all the apparent ‘successes’ of Goebbels and the ‘Volkischer Beobachter’ and all the rest of the onslaught, at no point did they feel secure enough to celebrate the murder of Jews. Instead, they hid it. So it was, ultimately a failure. Yes, the German people knew that the Jews were being mistreated horrendously, and yes, they probably weren’t overly concerned, but the reason why post war West Germany was able to be a successful democracy is because, ultimately the vast majority of German citizens never REALLY believed the propaganda. They were frightened initially, grateful that their Government cared about them, and ultimately just doing what they were conditioned to do. They lost the ability to think critically. As soon as the war was lost, the majority understood that they had been mugged.

205303 ▶▶▶ Chris Hume, replying to DRW, 11, #1473 of 1673 🔗

They are beginning to. Don’t believe the opinion polls. There is a significant opinion switch taking place. They have overplayed their hand. Their problem is that the longer they spin it out, and the more individual citizens feel their own personal pain, the more they lose ground. I have always said end November/beginning December is when the dam collapses. Feeling more confident than ever.

205332 ▶▶▶▶ DRW, replying to Chris Hume, 5, #1474 of 1673 🔗

I want to believe you, but most of the public have just kept falling for it. It’s been said before it can’t go on for much longer yet it’s been 7 months and still no end in sight.

205341 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to DRW, 4, #1475 of 1673 🔗

Hang in there. The cracks are starting to show.

205360 ▶▶▶▶▶ Chris Hume, replying to DRW, 7, #1476 of 1673 🔗

I know, but opinion IS shifting. Maureen was a wake up call for the MSM. The BBC showed her interview deliberately to mock her. The feedback was nothing like they expected. We are winning the argument, not because we are louder, but because we are correct. It is very difficult to keep up a ‘fear’ narrative that has run out of steam. The more that people suffer, the less inclined they are to accept a particular narrative. truth always wins in the end.

205343 ▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Chris Hume, 2, #1477 of 1673 🔗

There is a specific globalist imperative to keep the pandemic going at the moment: the US Presidential election. They want Trump out and Biden in. Biden’s only chance of winning is “with Covid”.

205349 ▶▶▶▶ Rosie, replying to Chris Hume, 3, #1478 of 1673 🔗

I do hope you are right, but the cult-like beliefs of the maskers unnerve me. Nothings gonna stop me doing all I can, don’t get me wrong.

205376 ▶▶▶▶▶ Chris Hume, replying to Rosie, 2, #1479 of 1673 🔗

There will always be ‘hard core believers’ in any situation. The point here is that despite the incessant media propaganda, the Government and so called ‘Opposition’ positions on this, the average person is less convinced than ever. Think about where we were in Spring to where we are now. The Government were initially fighting off accusations of being too slow and not locking down soon enough. I always thought that was a battleground they were happy to fight on. Now, they are battling us. And they are losing.

205223 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to Country Mumkin, 6, #1480 of 1673 🔗

Yes mostly people towards the end of their careers. In our PC world your career will suffer hugely if you step out of line.

205234 ▶▶ John P, replying to Country Mumkin, 19, #1481 of 1673 🔗

Well I was the first person to post that excellent podcast to this site a couple of days ago – before even Toby posted it to the main page – and yet for some reason an individual just called me a shill. Not sure who I am accused of shilling for!

I’m only here really to hopefully inform the debate, but I don’t always do it perfectly. My only interest is in the truth and putting an end to this charade as soon as possible and in seeing Johnson and his government behind bars.

I don’t always agree with everyone here, but I don’t doubt that most people are against the lockdowns. What hope is there if even here people do not trust each other!

205265 ▶▶▶ Steve Martindale, replying to John P, 10, #1482 of 1673 🔗

Fair comment, the atmosphere is quite febrile on both side of the argument and the stakes are quite high, you are right we cannot afford to be divided, you only have to to see how the media treated ‘Maureen’ to see why that is the case. I never intended to spend parts of 2020 delving into ONS death statistics and trying to brush up my statistical understanding to get my head around false positives. So do stick with it, this tomfoolery must be stopped.

205292 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to John P, 2, #1483 of 1673 🔗