The Cardinals have been without Steven Matz all month, as the veteran lefty has been on the shelf due to a lower back strain. He’d been slated to throw a bullpen session today, but that’s now been scrapped due to ongoing discomfort, tweets Jeff Jones of the Belleville News-Democrat. Instead, Matz will receive an injection and be shut down from throwing for “at least” the next week — possibly longer, depending on how he responds to the latest treatment.
Matz, 33 at the end of the month, is in the third season of a four-year, $44MM contract signed in free agency. The former Mets and Blue Jays hurler rebounded from a dreadful first season of that agreement in 2022 to give the Cards 105 innings of 3.86 ERA ball last season. He did so with diminished strikeout and walk rates relative to his ’22 levels but also with a resurgent 44.8% grounder rate that helped in mitigating some of the home run troubles he’d experienced in his first year with St. Louis.
The 2024 season has seen Matz make six starts and struggle to a low tally of 27 1/3 innings as well as a grim 6.18 ERA. Matz’s 13.4% strikeout rate would easily be a career-low and stands as the eighth-lowest mark among any of the 182 MLB pitchers to toss at least 20 innings this season. His 8.7% walk rate is average, but this year’s 33.7% ground-ball rate is the lowest of his career other than a 30-inning sample from the shortened 2020 season.
With Matz now sidelined even longer than expected, a window will further open for fellow southpaw Matthew Liberatore. Manager Oli Marmol told the Cardinals beat that plugging Liberatore into Matz’s rotation spot for now “gives us the best chance to win” (X link via Jones), so it seems he’ll remain the preferred option to start in Matz’s absence. Liberatore, acquired from the Rays in the trade sending Randy Arozarena to Tampa Bay, hasn’t topped 50 pitches in an outing this year and thus figures to be limited when he takes the ball today in a road matchup with the Angels. His longest outing of the season has been 3 2/3 innings, but if he can work efficiently, it’s feasible he could get through four or five innings before the Cards go to the bullpen.
Speaking of Marmol, he’s come under quite a bit of fire as the Cardinals have followed up 2023’s surprising last-place finish with an ugly start that once again has them residing in the NL Central’s cellar. Fans have voiced plenty of criticism for the third-year skipper, and president of baseball operations John Mozeliak — who surprisingly fired former manager Mike Shildt and installed Marmol as the new skipper — seemed to choose his words carefully when asked by KMOX’s Tom Ackerman how he currently views his manager (X link with audio).
“These are times that are difficult,” said Mozeliak. “I still think he understands the job. I think he knows how to manage. I think he’s trying to put the right combination of players in, but at some level you’ve got to have some performance. I understand fans are not happy with myself. They’re not happy with Oli. I don’t think anything I say here today is going to change that, so I think we have to just keep trying to go back and try to get this to work. And look, we understand if it doesn’t, then people are going to be held accountable — and ultimately that starts with me.”
Marmol was entering the final season of his original three-year deal to manage the Cardinals this year, but the front office extended him through the 2026 season back in mid-March. That contract seemed a clear vote of confidence at the time, but less than two months later, Mozeliak is publicly noting that his skipper has “got to have some level of performance” and speaking about accountability both on the field level and in the front office.
The 16-24 Cardinals are eight games back of the division-leading Brewers and have the fourth-worst run differential in MLB (-51), leading only the Rockies, Marlins and White Sox. Cardinals hitters rank 28th in the majors in batting average (.220), 27th in on-base percentage (.298) and 29th in slugging percentage (.341). Their 136 runs are the second-fewest in MLB, and St. Louis is tied with the White Sox for the game’s fewest home runs (29).
The revamped rotation hasn’t been much better. Cardinals starters are 24th in the big leagues with a combined 4.49 ERA and rank 22nd with a 20.5% strikeout rate. The bullpen, led by closer Ryan Helsley and setup men JoJo Romero, Ryan Fernandez and Andrew Kittredge, has been better, but it’s a top-heavy group. The struggles of those in the final few spots of the ’pen have Cardinals relievers sitting at a flat 4.00 ERA on the season, ranking 15th in the big leagues.
Anyone else have provocative ads on this site as of late?
What are you talking about?
Ooooh looks like someone’s been naughty with their web searches
well, it is the internet. It’s why it was created.
(this is rather rich coming from someone with the name Rick James! lol)
Reminds me of the anti-gay politician that posted on Twitter about how “big tech” was sending him ads for gay cruise vacations
Let’s see that search history. Someone’s riding more than motorcycles.
Use “incognito” mode for activities you don’t want to be seen by the ad servers.
Matz is an interesting guy. If he’s locked in and more importantly healthy he can be a really good pitcher. But he’s a bit of a flake and again he can’t stay healthy. It wasn’t the worst signing in the world but I will be happy when he’s gone.
The Cardinals appear to be headed for another sell off. Unfortunately they don’t have a lot of valuable pieces to deal. Kittredge will be dealt. Middleton if he ever gets healthy. Maybe Goldschmidt but he needs to actually perform first. Helsley is probably the most valuable chip they have if the Cardinals choose to trade him. I could see a deal with the Royals or Orioles for Helsley.
“Don’t have a lot of valuable pieces to deal”…The Cardinals have had “valuable” pieces to deal in the last few years. The problem is they’ve become rather adept at holding onto trade assets so long they no longer have any real value.
Arenado and Goldschmidt had and still have no trade clauses. Trading ONeill was a mistake. The problem right now is Marmol he’s an idiot and the primary reason ONeill was dealt. Marmol is not a leader of men he has a Napoleon complex and simply isn’t that smart.
I’d love to be wrong, but I don’t think there’s any way either of them refuse a trade last year if the front office actually offered to send them somewhere they had a better chance to win a WS.
Arenado would almost certainly approve of a trade to the Dodgers. But do the Cardinals really want to help the Dodgers win a championship? I don’t think they do.
Goldschmidt I imagine he would accept a deal to the Rangers or DBacks. But the DBacks have no place for him. And obviously the Rangers didn’t need him last year.
The Cardinals want both guys to go into the HOF as Cardinals. That is a factor in all of this.
The cardinals should be more worried about doing what’s best for them rather than “helping the dodgers”.
What’s Arenado actually worth? He has a rather large contract. He’s getting old. I just don’t think the juice is worth the squeeze for the Cardinals to make that deal. I suggested they do it at last years trade deadline but I totally understand why they didn’t or wouldn’t.
Now if Arenado actually requests a trade that would be different. In that case they should at least consider it.
They should absolutely trade him if they can. They have a cheap, ready made replacement already on the roster. There is no reason for this team to carry Arenado’s salary any longer than necessary. He doesn’t get them closer to winning. His salary just gets in the way of adding the things they need.
Same for Contreras.
Contreras is a good player no way I would trade him. Herrera can’t throw runners out I dont trust him as an everyday guy.
Arenado I think has some value but perhaps not what his contract pays him.
Arenado
Edman
Kittredge
For
Muncy
C Taylor
That would he payroll neutral for 2025. After that the team saves some money paying Muncy in 2026 instead of Arenado around 8 million then gets off the hook for the 15 million Arenado is owed in 2027. I would do that deal. Muncy plays some 1b and 3b both.
@Blackpink: I seriously doubt they would refuse a trade based solely on which team is involved and that team’s chances of winning.
Baseball is, above all, a business, and decision-makers think like business people, not fans. They can’t afford not to.
You’re a fan, and you think like a fan. Only fans can afford to think like fans.
Arenado grew up a Dodgers fan. Not saying he wouldn’t accept a trade somewhere else but I know he would accept one to play there because he wants to win. Goldschmidt maybe he’s more open minded because he’s a free agent after 2024 anyways.
My point was about team management, not Arenado.
And there’s nothing to discuss with Goldschmidt unless and until he performs well enough for long enough to prove he’s not finished.
We got Arenado because he wanted to play here and wanted to win. If he’s dealt he’s gotta want to go there. Dodgers makes a ton of sense.
Yes as of today Goldschmidt isn’t going anywhere he has to pick it up. I think he will just a matter of how much. Cardinals could eat the salary if needed.
But do the Cardinals really want to help the Dodgers win a championship?
===========================
Is there some type of animosity between the LAD and the Cards that I am unaware of?
Apparently there is, if only in Blackpink’s mind.
@Blackpink: But Muncy and Taylor are both 34, even older than Arenado, and declining players.
There is no point in a last place team acquiring them. They won’t be able to flip them for prospects of any quality.
Bryce Harper grew up a Yankees fan. Mike Trout grew up a Phillies fan. Keith Hernandez grew up a Giants fan. Mike Piazza grew up a Phillies fan. Yogi Berra grew up a Cardinals fan.
The list goes on and on.
Professional players are adults who have outgrown childhood fandom. Which team they once followed is the least important factor in determining where they play.
Right now Muncy is actually better than Arenado and doesn’t appear to be declining at all. The Cardinals aren’t trying to rebuild just reload and try again next year. Taylor is junk he’s just in there to balance out the salary.
Arenado wants to win. The Dodgers are the best team in baseball. That has as much to do with Arenado being willing to play there than anything else does.
I am not saying he will be traded. But if he is traded I would bet anything he’s traded to the Dodgers. Wait and see.
Any player at 34 is declining, virtually by definition.
Muncy is exactly the wrong kind of player for an aging, losing team to pursue.
Goldschmidt won the MVP at age 34.
Like I said the Cardinals are not rebuilding. Not unless they trade Gray which I highly doubt they will do.
The latest(ongoing) St. Louis Cardinals reunion tour. And word on the street, is they could be joined by key boardist Matt Holliday and drummer Yadi Molina for the East Coast portion of their “Cialis forever” tour.
Why are pitchers paid more and more to pitch less and less?
Inflation. Plus, they’re expected to throw max effort every single pitch, with velocity rarely seen – and spin levels unheard of – even a generation ago.
The demands being placed on pitchers these days are approaching the limits of what the human body can do, which is why so many of them are breaking down nowadays.
Not necessarily it depends on a pitcher case by case obviously. Jordan Hicks is on the same contract as Matz now to start and is doing great. It just seems worse for our investments as many don’t pan out
Yeah Hicks performing so well is not a good look for the Cardinals that’s for sure.
Matz has been hurt I don’t hate the contract. The Leake contract now that was stupid.
That recurring theme of so many players doing better elsewhere is why I blame player development and coaching. It was just the opposite when LaRussa was handling things.
Yes that’s absolutely a problem and has been since the Matheny days.
We need only to reflect on the coverage of the lead up to and debut of Paul Skenes to understand the fundamental issue behind the current state of pitching. The endless and blind obsession with “eye-popping” velocity. These guys go out and throw the ball as hard as they can every outing. The crowd wanders away when he loses 2-3 MPH off his fastball because “something’s wrong with him”. He heads for TJS, the media dutifully report on that, and then it’s on to the next guy with “eye-popping velocity” and a “devastating sweeper”. And the band plays on.
You think? You think? You think? You should flipping know not think…
Cardinal player development and coaching are horrible. MO chose them all. The buck stops there – period.
Marmol may not be the greatest manager, but he hardly can be held responsible for the Cards’ wretched batting, poor pitching and the team’s rash of injuries. He can only play the players he has. The team is the victim of poor choices by the front office over the past few years, some of them dictated by the penurious Bill DeWitt, Jr.
The injuries aren’t his fault and there have been a lot of those. But trading ONeill is on Marmol. The bad pitching and hitting is his fault because the hitting and pitching coaches suck and Marmol hired them. Yes the team is old but nearly everyone is playing below their career levels. That’s on the manager.
O’Neill is back to being the player we all knew in St. Louis. Hasn’t homered since April 27th and since then is hitting .159 with a .533 ops and 22 strikeouts in 44 at bats.
He wasn’t even playing for 10 days in thst stretch. He still has a higher OPS than anyone on the Cardinals team. He has more homers than all the Cardinal outfielders combined. You want to talk about 44 at bats and ignore season totals? OK you do that….
Oh and he just hit his 10th homer of the season.
You were saying???
Haters gonna hate. Lovers gonna love. I don’t even want. None of the above I wanna……
I’m not sure why so many posters need to be hyper-high or hyper-low on players. O’Neill is what he is. He was a 112 OPS+, good glove player before joining the RS, and will likely continue to be so.
There are Cardinal fans with some weird hate towards ONeill. I believe it’s because he lifts weights and is in great shape but had injury problems.
I believe he’s better than his career OPS because he’s had some injury problems. If he could get healthy he can perform better than that although his defense might suffer a bit trying to stay healthy.
Every professional athlete is in great shape, and most lift weights.
ONeill is in unusually good shape. Perhaps better shape than anyone else in all of baseball. His dad was a famous professional bodybuilder. Look it up.
It’s a situation as old as baseball itself. When a team sucks too long the manager gets fired. I don’t see it changing any time soon.
I think what frustrates fans isn’t even the losing.
It’s the fact they all know that ownership and the front office simply aren’t going to do anything of substance to make it better.
That’s why you see traditionally docile Cardinals fans starting to loser their bleep.
The team will do something. There is tons of money coming off the books after this year and next. The problem is they need to make good decisions with that money. The Goldschmidt and Arenado deals both were terrific even if both guys aren’t performing right now. Effort isn’t the issue it’s about making intelligent decisions and a lot of that is hiring a competent manager.
Can I go ahead and say it? Ah why not… only an IDIOT would think that “there’s a ton of money coming off the books” next year. Especially when you consider that it’s the highest payroll the Cardinals have had and the “ton of payroll” will get up very quick with arbitration raises. If the Cardinals have 20 million to spend I’d be surprised.
What makes matters worse is that they look up and see Chicago with a cost controlled rotation for the next five year and what looks like young, impact bats sitting at first and third.
I still have hope! When the season began I looked at the schedule and thought it was going to be tough in the early going. No I didn’t think they would go into a team hitting slump. But there are a lot of positives. If in may and June play 4 games under, .500 then I believe they will catch fire and approach 88 wins. With or without Mármol.
@spudchukar: “I looked at the schedule.”
You realize that each team plays every one of the other 29 teams, don’t you?
That means the schedule is much the same for every team, albeit with some weight on intradivision matchups.
@Blue Baron – He’s talking about the first two months being the toughest on the schedule for the Cardinals. He’s right about not expecting a great first two months. The offense disappeared making it even worse than expected.
Recall last year when Mozeliak mentioned that one of their priorities is to extend Goldschmidt. I haven’t heard otherwise yet. Regardless of what he does the rest of the year, the true bellwether of this organization lies in whether or not they actually do try to extend him.
Why would Goldschmidt be a priority?
Even mike matheny would make the cardinals better, ik marmol is there just so he can look good for Mozliak (misspelled) but god marmol did not look good in that ejection the other day, so many f bombs
If anyone thinks Marmol should still be a manager then they don’t know baseball. I’m pretty sure Mo knows, but just doesn’t want to admit it yet.
Too much riding on it for Mo to fold on Marmol at this point. That’s his guy, and he fired Schildt to put him there. He already doubled down on Marmol with that extension. If he fires him, it won’t be until after the season. But I think most STL fans will agree the next manager should be Molina – it’s practically inevitable.
I really think the extension was for appearances more than anything. Schilt was fired and the team was good. I think he’s gone by July if the team is where it was last year at the trade deadline. But after the season isn’t that different I suppose. He has to go.
I’m no longer sure about Molina. He’s done nothing as a special adviser this year which reminds me of the way he disappeared during his last year. He should have to prove himself as a coach just like everyone else.
Yeah I like Molina in the fold but as a bench coach behind a PROVEN manager. Perhaps an old guy who everyone knows won’t be around forever and Yadi can learn from him. Is Buck Showalter available? Always liked him. Maybe Maddon.
Why would Molina want to be involved? What does special adviser even entail? I think Yadi noped out of being close to Marmol the same way that Maddox and Holiday did. I think he has proven himself as a coach in a variety of ways, I still think that somehow his presence was understated during his time in the organization. Yadi will be an MLB manager, only question is whether it’ll be with the cards.
Extension!
Thank you!
Sincerely, Cubs fans.
I believe Marmol was the lowest paid manager in baseball when he was hired. And I bet not much changed with that extension. In other words they can fire him anytime. I would be surprised if the extension paid him more than Craig Counsell is getting for 2 months of work.
Yadier Molina put him in as Manager or Pujols or both maybe one is a hitting coach/bench coach/pitching coach and the other the manager. That would create a level of enthusiasm and holding those accountable as well as real leadership
But the enthusiasm would dissipate if the team gets off to a bad start, which they will as currently constituted regardless of who is managing.
Cardinal owners will sit pat, we are becoming the new Cubs, we are just supposed to be patient while we are the laughing stock of the MLB, .
We have Idiots in Marmol and MO, the owners don’t care, DeWitt laughed at fans staying home, so whats next for the St Louis Ringling Circus.
I read an article where Bill DeWitt III was asked about a fan boycott. He laughed and said that payroll will reflect revenue. In other words he was saying that if fans don’t support this dumpster fire, they will simply cut payroll and make the team worse.
I have defended this ownership group for years. But that tone-deaf, elitist comment changes everything for me. I hope Busch Stadium sits empty for the next 4 months. I hope the DeWitts get so fed up with the lack of support from the unwashed masses they sell the team and take Mo and Marmol with them. Good riddance to them all.
He’s not wrong. If you or anyone else thinks less fan support is going to equal more money spent on the team you are dreaming. I get so irritated when people say they are going to stop supporting the team and they expect that to lead to more spending and a better team.
Sure we could get more for less. Heck that’s how the team used to do things and they did it quite well. But money spent and fan support are directly related to each other.
He’s completely wrong because he isn’t even bothering to hear the complaints. Most fans are calling for a change in leadership, not an increase in payroll. He’s not even addressing the problem at hand.
He’s just making thinly veiled threats hoping people will back off.
Behaving like the thin skinned, spoiled brat he probably is.
I wouldn’t expect them to increase payroll if the fans boycott, but I would expect them to make changes. Ever heard of New Coke? If DeWitt were in charge of Coca-Cola, they’d still be making it and telling everyone to get used to it.
Everything that BDIII said in that interview was true and obvious, however it was in how he said that message that is pi$$ing off fans here.
How is that elitist?
I think of it as the owners are being absolutely naive and ignorant on how they interpret facts, exactly like the Rockies
It’s elitist in a “well if you don’t like it I’ll just take my ball and go home” type of way.
It implies that they operate the team purely for the benefit of the fans rather than the benefit of their bank account.
It implies that they are above criticism and that fans should just be happy there with the team they are given.
More tone deaf than elitist. But he is definitely talking down to the fan base.
Pirates were my pick for the division but had the Cards 2nd. Goldschmidt is losing them games, if they do anything they should shake up the roster first. Would be surprised if they moved Arenado, unless it was 2 big leaguers and a pitching prospect coming back. Imagine if the Orioles went crazy and offered them Westburg, Austin Hays & Cade Povich. Having two generals like Adley & Arenado on the same team batting 2nd & 3rd in the lineup. And what it would do for the pitching staff. Could St. Louis turn that down?
The o’s don’t need any more infielders, they already have a huge logjam there
Sonny gray would be a great fit since he would be signed for the next 2 and a half seasons, any of norby stowers and povich (if they have to include him) would be enough assuming the cardinals take the contract
Some nasty offensive numbers there. Season gone? Unabashed Caser Prieto fan. Promote this hit machine and let him get his hacks in. What’s to lose?
Totally agree!
Relax! Yeah thimgs haven’t been going great, but there are a lot of positives. For me middle relief should be adressed. I know Middleman is returns soon and I am no believer in Libertore, but the Cards will get better. I read today that Burleson is not producing. What, the guy smokes the ball 2 or 3 times a game. Have faith,they are not losers
“they are not losers.”
Dead last in a mediocre division at 87-115 over 202 games and a season and a quarter says they are.
“You are what your record says you are.” – Bill Parcells
Wait for Matz to rack up 2-3 good starts and then trade him. Same with everyone, including Gray.
They are at the stage where they are looking at low-70 win totals.