why are negative generalizations of women received poorly?

Makuta_Servaela · 2024-05-17T14:11:39+00:00

The generalizations of guys you made aren't generally negative- they are designed to excuse poor behaviour (ie. allow the men being referred to to avoid standards or consequences).

If you think negative generalizations of men are passed off with no issue, you haven't been watching the Bear Vs Man argument or the like. Any generalization that involves men being held to standards or punished for the actions of other men are immediately and aggressively pummeled into the ground.

Solondthewookiee · 2024-05-17T14:23:51+00:00

Because these generalizations against women are utilized almost entirely by discussions where they are then accused of being shallow, having unrealistic standards, inflated sense of self worth, only chasing/dating/fucking the top 20% of guys, using average men for their "resources," and the other assorted nonsense that permeates discussions about what women find attractive.

I personally bristle at the claim that men only go for looks and that we're all interested younger women. It's reductive and quite clearly carries additional implications with it.

There's a very strange belief on this sub that women finding attractive men attractive is this earth shattering revelation that women are trying to keep this fact hidden, which says far more about the men who are surprised than it does about women.

Nellylocheadbean · 2024-05-17T14:41:47+00:00

Context matters and these arguments are almost always used in bad faith. It’s used to justify why lonely Bob down the street is struggling when in reality he’s struggling because he’s not likable.

Men will complain that they can’t get a girl to like them or get a 2nd date etc and almost always blame the 80/20 rule to shift blame onto women. Most normal ppl would agree if you can’t find anyone to like you, the problem is you.

Now if we use the 80/20 discussion in the context of how women’s attraction to men works then I don’t think you’ll have an issue. I personally believe women don’t find most men visually appealing but women place emphasis on other traits (funny, ambitious, charismatic etc) so from a woman’s perspective it’s always possible to increase your overall attraction to women even if you’re the greatest looking.

ContextGlittering390 · 2024-05-17T14:21:23+00:00

I wish you would’ve included the study so I could better understand your question. Personally, I’m not offended when a study says that women find 80 percent of men unattractive. That actually sounds about accurate in terms of the amount of men I find unattractive.

egalitarian-flan · 2024-05-17T14:23:58+00:00

Using just this sub as an example, it's primarily because when negative generalizations are made about men, there's almost no women trying to claim that this is something 95%+ of men do. Most of the time it's accepted as just that...a generalization, with just as many men who don't fit it as those who do.

When negative generalizations about women are brought up, the comment section has many men who try to claim "all" women or 99% or at least 95%+ of women are like that. It goes from being a generalization about a true shitty behavior that some women exhibit to suddenly a shitty behavior that the overwhelming majority of women are guilty of.

If you speak up to say "yeah, I'm a woman who doesn't do this shitty thing and I agree it's immoral", chances are a guy will respond saying you're lying, or virtue signaling, or you're a unicorn, or you just haven't done it yet. Sometimes you'll have a comment about how you're "better" because you're "not like the other 99% of women". It kinda feels like attempts to create pick-mes.

IronDBZ · 2024-05-17T14:40:07+00:00

This is what I wrote on the last version of the post before it was deleted:

I think women's self-concept is often at odds with how they actually behave.

Femininity is often equated to kindness, patience, fairness, a certain kind of "deepness" as well sometimes.

And that is very much at odds with how they engage with men. Dating is discriminatory for us all, but especially for them, it's usually rooted in the surface level assumptions about others that are neither kind, fair, or take a lot of time to make up their minds about.

Masculinity on the other hands is far more amoral, it's about being effective, decisive, morality exists as separate from our self-concept as a man. Evil men can be men, good men can be men, neutral men might be men so long as they are steadfast in their neutrality.

There's a lot less dissonance in men to accept a non-virtuous aspect of themselves. Especially as it relates to dating/romance/relationships because most men already understand that the process of dating is deeply unkind, unfair, and has nothing to do with being a good person.

Women on the other hand, almost necessitate being a good person in order to have womanhood. And to the degree they engage with the negatives of dating, it's from the standpoint of being a victim of unvirtuous people. The idea that anything that they do could be part of the same dynamic is insulting.

And to bring it back to the example in the OP, there's nothing "good" about effectively being "shallow". In implying that they have a negative trait/habit, it's taken as an attack on their womanhood.

I also want to add that men also come into woman's defense quite frequently, whereas its rare I see woman defending men.

Considering that men's drive to be close to women is why most hetero dating happens, this isn't a surprise. The average man likes the average woman a lot more than the reverse.

There's an empathy gap, an interest gap, and a lot of in-group dynamics among women that keep them from coming to bat for men. Not an excuse, because I don't excuse it. It's really bad for all of us to think of one another as opposition. There's nothing more heartening to see than a woman who's on a man's side even if just for a particular conversation.

And while I don't know if they feel the same way about the men backing them up, I should hope the feeling is mutual.

TRTGymBro1 · 2024-05-17T14:59:40+00:00

Women never said that 80% of men are unattractive. You are literally clinging to claims from an 15 year old blog post based on data collected from a long form dating website before online dating was the norm. You can literally get more accurate data just by leaving your apartment and going to places where a lot of couples go together and see that men of all sizes and shapes are happily dating.

So the entire premise of your post is based on shitty data.

HighestTierMaslow · 2024-05-17T15:08:45+00:00

All your examples of men you gave are positive lol. Let's see how you react to truly negative ones. I don't see too many true generalizations on here but alot of men argue the vast majority of women show a crappy behavior. When it's not true, they just go for the women who do show it. There are alot of men on here who pick the most attractive women consistently and deny it or have messed up attachment patterns and pick poor women based on that. it seems most men who comment alot here have fearful, disorganized or avoidant style attachment patterns. People with secure attachment think this place is nuts.

GridReXX · 2024-05-17T15:34:31+00:00

Women require more than generic static photo images to feel aroused or “attraction” in the way men seem to feel it.

Most women require intuiting his vibe and presence to feel attraction. This is best done IRL.

Hence most women will see a bunch of generic photos of men and feel nothing. Feeling nothing means everyone around you is a non-sexual NPC. Which means she’s going to psychologically feel “neutral” which is basically “unattracted” if “unattracted” means not feeling any sense of arousal or anything. The reason males likely can’t relate to this is because of them having 15x more testosterone than females which accounts for their more heightened “quick to arousal” existence (especially in response to visual stimuli) and their more compulsory libido.

Can you provide the link for that “study”? I’m curious who the researchers and commissioners were — male or female?

I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s all men. I imagine women would have added the POV I’m providing and constructed a study that accounted for that.

TLDR: Women think your specific generalizations are half-truths or misrepresentations of what’s actually motivating the dynamic. Your interpretation is driven by male solipsism.

MistyMaisel · 2024-05-17T15:37:55+00:00

I've never been offended by that study, I just think it's wildly hilarious that anyone is basing their worldview about women in the wild on it. But I'd be a part of that statistic. I don't think the vast vast majority of men are best presented by a dating app. And if people think we should be dating based on dating apps, then that could be an problem.

UninterestingFork · 2024-05-17T14:46:57+00:00

OP have you not been here for the bear vs man debate? passport bros? age gap?

All I see is men not liking how they are portrayed by women

TotalTravesty · 2024-05-17T14:25:12+00:00

It’s not the generalization, it’s the whiny bitching. Every man realized that women want attractive partners by the time their first school dance came around. Most men handled it normally: Oh, they have eyes just like me? Okay, cool. I’ll just get more attractive. Others, of the more…”cel”lular variety, flipped over tables, threw tantrums, and swore revenge on every female-presenting thing on the planet.

Negative begets negative and now you have the situation you see today. The fact that women want attractive partners angers Chronically Online men, their anger makes women defensive and angry, their anger provokes the Online men even more and so forth and so on until you’ve got people talking about bears every day.

Meanwhile, men who are cool with reality and women who don’t engage in online flame wars don’t take these generalizations poorly—beside the fact that generalizations are intellectually lazy. They just go out and try to be and attract as attractive as possible.

EveningSuggestion283 · 2024-05-17T14:31:18+00:00

Because of emotions. Women can be openly emotional and expressive without being called out for being too sensitive or taking things personal. Men are typically Ostracized when they do the same. Aka held accountable, so they usually choose to share their feelings and disagreeable opinions within a small closed social circle.

Granted this has changed in the recent years men are starting to call women out when being irrational, men are calling other men out ETC. I believe things are slowly changing. Men are being called to be more honest, women are too, and are being asked to be more mature within discussions.

This is often seen here in this thread. Sometimes you’ll see women being very childish when they’re offended. Other times you’ll see men being childish when they’re offended. Society is slowly shifting. Things are changing as more people are starting to take ownership of their emotions and how they perceive things. People are slowing down on projecting as much because they’re being called out for it , without the ability to “blame shift” or be the professional victim.

I believe most of the time the woman in question typically feels personally attacked/ threatened.

toasterchild · 2024-05-17T14:32:03+00:00

Assumptions don't bug me if they don't apply to me. Like some women are gold diggers, so complaining about dealing with gold diggers doesn't bother me. But if you now try to claim i am one I will be offended since I am not. Get the difference?

Its like why the 80/20 thing is insulting. If you just give me photos to pick off of very few men stand out as attractive to me. That doesn't mean that a guy in that 80 percent has no chance, if we met in person I could think he's the most attractive man of the year. Just photos don't work well for me to build attraction off of. Online dating is awkward because I have to try to figure out from your photos if I would find you attractive in person or not. I just literally can't look at a photo and get turned on. That isn't some insult to men. It doesn't mean i am insanely picky, it just means I don't work that way. Assuming this "data" means women don't like most men is just wrong and men who claim that are offensive. It just means online dating is going to be oodles harder for men.

ArmariumEspata · 2024-05-17T15:24:42+00:00

If you were to say guy are "visual" or they like "younger woman" or guys only go for girls with "looks" it wouldn't really impact most men and actually most men would agree. Even some would give you a scientific reason why.

As much as I hate it, there absolutely exist men who have no problem with the notion that we’re shallow and only concerned with a woman’s looks as opposed to more meaningful qualities. It blows my mind that they’re not in the least bit offended by it.

To answer your question, stereotypes and generalities about women negatively impact women much more than men, hence why women are normally more outspoken against them.

bradlite · 2024-05-17T15:42:10+00:00

Almost every red and black pill take on single dating women applies to at least 1/3 of them. Then 2/3 of the women we would actually encounter. All sorts of popular takes like like dual mating strategy is true from my perspective absolutely.

All girls want hunter eyes, lantern jaw, tall, muscles, large d Chad, even Stacy melts for Chad. We all know a few guys that can get sex by snapping their fingers.

You can’t go on dates and sleep with most of them and not think single dating girls are not often promiscuous. If you experience it in dating and say that, women take it as negative. Then girls pipe in, I’ve never hooked up, why would a girl do that she doesn’t have an orgasm? It’s like how are you able to negate my personal experience and other guys I know who can get dates, when girls are dating, they often hookup.

Anything you say that characterized dating women is met by many women with resistance because single dating girls hoe phases they have mixed feelings about is part of it. They also don’t want it out there how much sex they actually are having. They just point to a stat that is also women lying. If you met a girl on dating app or at a bar, she’s very likely slept with way more than 6 guys.

Women can say any negative thing they want about men and it’s prob true more than half the time or how they perceive it. We don’t come after every little perceived as maybe negative thing.

Sharp_Engineering379 · 2024-05-17T16:39:55+00:00

There was data produced about how woman rate 80% of men unattractive on this specific app. I think it was on reddit where I saw this and was interested to hear woman's perspective: they felt like the data was "blaming" woman for dating issues. I don't see how anyone is blaming woman. Which is ironic cause a lot of woman were quick to blame men for not having good pictures etc.

There was no data. It was a poorly cobbed together blog post/advertisement on OKCupid which showed a handful of college students photos of men on fake profiles and asked them to rate the photos.

The sole purpose of that blog post was to encourage men to take better photos.

badgersonice · 2024-05-17T14:59:39+00:00

If you were to say guy are "visual" or they like "younger woman" or guys only go for girls with "looks" it wouldn't really impact most men and actually most men would agree.

Are these particularly negative? Men do tend to react a lot more negatively to generalizations that are a lot more harsh, like saying men are more violent, men dangerous, men are less empathetic, etc.

Why is it that if the equivalent generalizations were made towards woman its usually met with anger rather than discussion?

You’re being too vague. Give specific examples of what you think the equivalent generalizations are than you believe are unjustly met with anger rather than discussion. I suspect the ones you think are equivalent are not all that equivalent.

The reality is that people in general don’t like being generalized with negative generalizations, and the more negative the generalization, the harsher they’ll object. Not sure why this is surprising to you.

DeJuanBallard · 2024-05-17T17:18:40+00:00

Men are so desperate for female validation they will refrain from criticizing or critiquing and will agree with them when they hate on "other" men, hoping to be considered unique , then women project that dynamic on to men with the accusation that , it's actually us doing that not them. We spend forever trying to live down a stereotype born of nothing but female need to shed accountability. And we come right back around to men who are desperate, agreeing just to get in the good graces.

Hot_Lack_4868 · 2024-05-17T14:13:09+00:00

Because women will always take women side and simps/whiteknights/nice guys who constantly seek women approval won't hear anything against women .Even on this sub you will find many guys constantly trying to gain women approval

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GrandpaDallas · 2024-05-17T16:02:03+00:00

If you were to say guy are "visual" or they like "younger woman" or guys only go for girls with "looks" it wouldn't really impact most men and actually most men would agree. Even some would give you a scientific reason why.

I wouldn’t agree, and I would find it negative, and have in real life applications, if a person were to generalize me as such.

I find any negative generalizations to be pretty short sighted at best

Unhappy_Offer_1822 · 2024-05-17T17:07:01+00:00

i think its due to that being a vulnerability in many women.

what matters in the statement is that many women believe society values them for looks or that is how they build value in themselves, so they see a statement like this as damaging and essentially an attack on their value

Men are not values for their visual ability for the most part, so its not going to cause a negative reaction for the most part. With many men, it seems anything that targets their masculinity, intelligence, status or fears (depending on the person) is more likely to cause a similar type of reaction.

DarkChiaotzu · 2024-05-17T17:30:08+00:00

I think it’s the way they are used. Men being more “visual” or liking “younger women” is usually used as justification or an excuse for socially less acceptable behavior. Some if it is true, and a biological fact, though some of it is an oversimplification.

The data speaks for itself. I’m not into men, but that seems accurate. I feel you misinterpreted what they were saying. It wasn’t the data that was used as a blame, it was the way it was being used.

You see, women aren’t very visual at all. So a man they deem physically attractive might not be attractive to her, and a man she might deem physically average or even ugly might be attractive if he has certain personality traits. This is unfortunately untrue when it comes to dating apps, though. Dating apps, however, are horrible for men. Not only is there a huge ratio of men to women, where there is likely 4 or 5 men for every woman, but ever with the disparity, an alarmingly high amount of men are rejected.

This isn’t to say women aren’t pickier. They are. It’s basic biology, and it’s unfortunately being exploited these days. Women have uteruses and carry babies for nine months, so back when we were hunter gatherers with no pregnancy intervention methods, any mate that women got with would result in her pregnancy. There was also a very high mortality rate for women who had kids. In countries where they don’t have regulations or support for pregnant women, the mortality rate is as high as 10%. So consequences for women mating are far, far greater than the consequences for men mating. Whereas a man can do his business and be done with it shortly, a woman doesn’t really have that freedom.

Jazzlike_Worth_9908 · 2024-05-17T17:42:54+00:00

Have you seen how poorly the man vs bear thing has been received ?

superlurkage · 2024-05-17T18:31:52+00:00

The same reason negative generalization of any oppressed group is received poorly

Wanna say bad things about blacks and Jews and gays? Go ahead, let us know how that goes

WhiteHalo2196 · 2024-05-17T14:08:36+00:00

Western society is gynocentric. Men are raised by their parents from when they’re young to simp for women. And so women are unaccustomed to being criticised, so when they do face criticism they can’t handle it.

gusGus2222_ · 2024-05-17T14:37:30+00:00

We are all socialized to protect women even at the cost of men. Because biologically women are more valuable.

1 man can repopulate and island of women. The opposite is not true.

That translates to a lot of different aspects of life and social structure. Including women being treated like children.

Does it make sense in modern times, not as much. But it’s an evolutionary rollover.

Basically when a man says something negative it’s seen as a threat because he can easily act on it.x When a woman says it, it has less impact because she is thought to be less capable of aggression. So therefor not a “real” threat.

PiastriPs3 · 2024-05-17T14:39:08+00:00

Women are invested in protecting today's status quo in dating, government imposed wealth distribution and gender dynamics as they know that they have it good and things can go bad as Afghanistan's women have shown. They'll protect women's image and every advantage and, double standard they have over men. Women are a very good union. I wished men behaved more like women instead of tearing each other apart for crumbs of social status, naive ideals and social approval. OP, you should be asking why men are so are so atomised and hyperfocused on individualism when it has brought nothing productive to mens interest as a class. Men have to adapt to the new socio-political realities and start behaving like a collective like women on issues of gender, sexuality and economics instead of believing in delusion that they're temporarily embarrassed Alpha males or that being a willful accessory to a gender with huge in group/out group bias will lead to anything fruitful other than becoming another pathetic blue pilled soiboy

fifththrowaway · 2024-05-17T15:08:46+00:00

It's because women run excellent PR. They'll engage with social perception instead of just the face value logic. If any discussion has a potential to damage Team Woman's position, it's an enemy combatant and must be destroyed. True or not.

If some men are doing something problematic, it's a man problem. If women are found doing something problematic, it's a people problem. Notice how all the vile, sexist stuff women do gets neatly tucked away under the umbrella term of patriarchy. Which is collectively men's fault, and don't you forget it.
Women's suffering is a uniquely important issue that takes center stage. Men's suffering either doesn't exist, or is ontologically inferior to women's suffering, or well-deserved. At any moment, a woman can be an empowered girlboss OR a helpless victim without agency; depending on which position is more useful. Questioning any of this makes you the reason she picks the bear.
Their bickering and intrasexual competition occurs covertly, between other women in a coded fashion. In front of men, all women are 10/10 queens. An attack on one is an attack on all.

It's amazing what a group can do when they close ranks, and work together to exert social control. Men are too stuck in their egos and rugged-individualist LARP to learn that.

stormiu · 2024-05-17T15:13:14+00:00

Was this post laced or something? Every response is just women lying and making up random skewed BS.

Sure-Vermicelli4369 · 2024-05-17T15:32:46+00:00

There is something really weird and tribal about how women will come out of the woodworks to defend a theoretical women who does not even exist.

Even more strange, women have a higher propensity for groupthink which means generalizations about them are generally more valid.

Love_on_you0422 · 2024-05-17T14:09:59+00:00

upvote

upalse · 2024-05-17T16:20:59+00:00

Women are more sensitive to shaming (higher neuroticism as a demographic), and so you get more knee-jerk response from them.

Crimson-Pilled · 2024-05-17T17:00:03+00:00

Its the "Women are Wonderful" effect. Both men and women want the data to show women are better than men. Saying women have their own problems, or that on average they're worse than men, is the equivilent of denying the divinity of Christ in the Middle Ages.

Title	why are negative generalizations of women received poorly?
Author	Rough-Form6212
Upvotes	0
Comments	258
Date	May 17, 2024 2:01 PM UTC (5 hours ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/1cu5z94/why_are_negative_generalizations_of_women/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/why-are-negative-generalizations-of-women-received.1518747 https://theredarchive.com/post/1518747