I'm a crisis/ hostage negotiator. AMA
Hello everyone, I did an AMA about this 6 months ago and it was really fun so I figured I'd do another! I'll address some of the common questions I got last time.
I'm a patrol officer for a local police department. Ive been and officer for about 9 years and a negotiator for 3. My town has about 18k residents but I respond to anywhere in my county. I'm on a part-time regional SWAT team as a negotiator. I have read the book Never Split the Difference and seen the movie The Negotiator. I enjoyed both. Becoming a negotiator has not helped me get a better price on a car lol.
Feel free to ask away! And thanks for stopping by
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Thanks for doing another AMA! I have a job where I quite often work with college aged students in crisis, typically mental health and suicide ideations.
What general advice can you share on how to best get through to somebody in a mental health crisis? As in, how do you get them to do the action you are asking? Most of the time for me, it’s get them to agree to go get a higher level of care.
Of course! Thanks for taking the time to respond! My advice would be to talk to them and really listen to what's wrong and what there overall goals are. What led them to the point they're at and how can they get to where they want to be. It usually requires a fair amount of discussion but once you know what they want, explain to them how they can get to where they want to be and the first step is to get help. Most of the time that involves speaking with a mental health professional and a higher level of care.
Love that answer! Thank you!
Of course! Thank you for everything you do!
I have an adult daughter that kept repeating the date she would commit suicide to me. I tried helping her by talking about other options. Nothing was good response. Then I asked her why and she flipped out on me. “YOU KNOW WHY! CAUSE I HAVE TO LIVE IN THIS FUCKING HOUSE”. (Her grandparents home whom take care of her and her 4 babies).. i believe she kept reciting the date so I would cave and tell her to move in with me. But that is NOT an option.
What major win have you had in life? & What ‘miss’ haunts you?
My biggest win in life is getting engaged last month. My biggest miss is someone who took their life while I was on the phone with them
Tbh was not expecting to read getting engaged as your biggest win - I seriously teared up
Does your fiancee worry about you doing your job? Do you plan on scaling back/safer position?
I truly admire you
It absolutely is, I knew it sounds cheesy but I'm the luckiest man in the world
She does, she always jokes she wishes I was an accountant, but she is incredibly supportive of me and my career goals
I don't have any plans to scale back or anything like that, I love what I do and I plan/ hope to have a long and successful career
I work in accounting. I can verify it's a safe and boring job. But pretty good pay though!
What you do is vastly more important. So keep it up thanks!
Cops are notorious for cheating. Don't fuck this up by cheating on her....
Congratulations on your engagement!
Thank you!
What made you choose this job? Do you feel like you've always been good at reading people and understand their emotions? How often are you using these skills to manipulate people in normal life situations (it doesn't have to be bad kind of manipulation)?
So my full-time job/ duty is as a patrol officer, and it's just something I've always wanted to do
For the negotiator position, I always has interest and my friend and fellow officer suggested I try out for it
I use the skills I've learned and honed everyday, mostly with my personal and professional relationships. I would my level of communication has drastically improved and as such many of my relationships. I wouldn't call it manipulation, more of clearer communication. I don't use my skills to get me a lower price on a car or something like that because they don't translate well to something like that
That's really interesting, thank you! Also, not sure if you've been asked already, but do you have like a file with your successful and unsuccessful outcomes? And if so, does that mean that they may or may not choose you for a specific job depending on that report and your success rate? Thank you!
We do an after action report on a lot of our call outs but we don't keep Stat sheet or anything. Call outs work on a first come first go basis. If multiple negotiators respond then we'll usually work together with one taking lead and on support
Do you have trauma training? Like in terms of understanding human physiology is relation to crises? I find that this is a major missing piece in law enforcement. They don't know the first thing about a central nervous system or a brain for that matter.
A very basic understanding, but no extensive training
My ex hanged himself in our garage. Luckily I was able to free him before he completely lost consciousness. When I called 911 a bunch of cops showed up.
I explained the story 5 times over. Finally a Sgt showed up and I was sobbing telling him the story and he yelled at me "if you want us to help you're gonna have to calm down!"
And I literally had to yell back at him "sir! If your wife hung herself from a rafter of your garage do you think YOU would be calm! It's your job to be calm, not mine!" If he didn't pipe tf down right then and there...bc that's the fucking truth.
Obviously that's triggering for me but I appreciate you acknowledging that it is in fact your job to be as calm as possible. All cops should internalize that.
That's horrible I'm so sorry you went through that experience. I'm also sorry that that Sergeant was rude and unprofessional. Obviously it's not easy to calm someone down in an emergency, usually I try to say something more like I need your help and focus or something like that. It's more of a redirect as opposed to an accusation
I also try to reassure them I'm there for them as well and that we are working together
I have anger issues.
Can you pass along any tips to stay cool under pressure and not wig out?
What’s your review on the movie “the negotiator” with Sam Jackson and Kevin Spacey? I think it’s a banger.
I love the part where they said never tell a hostage taker No and instead say something like”we’ll look into that.” I use that strategy with my kids 🤣
It's a great movie! I got a lot of questions about that in my last AMA. Its actually a good technique as long as the request is something that's unattainable
Did you take any professional training for this, or was it on-the-job training?
I went to a 3 week specialized training to get certificated and I attend a training every other Wednesday and one week in the summer. A lot of learning is on the job too
Thanks for doing this job!
Of course! I'm honored to have it
Do you feel like a Hero? Or does it feel like you’re just doing your job?
If you don’t feel like a Hero, reminder: heroes save people. So if you’ve saved anyone, you’re a hero.
If you continually save people, and never give up, then you’re the closest thing to an Actual Super Hero.
Thank you for those kind words. Truly means a lot to me and made my day a lot better. I don't consider myself a hero, I consider what I do just trying to do my best to help people. For me it's natural and just something I think I was born to do. I do see the operators I work with as heros because they put themselves in a great deal of danger and are all really great guys who care and work really hard
That's what a Hero would say. Thank you for your service and thank you for continuing to carry the fire. Sometimes it will burn you, but we need the light to stave off the darkness.
Most police don’t consider themselves heroes. It’s a thankless job.
Why is is that when someone/their family calls for help when having a mental crisis, the police often times end up shooting them pretty quickly?
Why isn't every patrol office trained on crisis response?
How long is just the "crisis" portion of your course?
So while I don't want this AMA to turn into a discussion about excessive force, police brutality etc, I don't think often times is assessment. There are hundreds if not thousands of calls for individuals having mental crisis' everyday and the vast majority of them end in a non violent manner. That being said there are absolutely bad/ incompetent cops out there and I don't support them whatsoever. No one hates bad cops more than I do. Officers receive some training in crisis response but unfortunately most departments budgets don't allow for a lot of extra training. It was a strain on my department to send me but me chief is great and made it work. The crisis portion was all of my course. We went over it everyday
A big enough budget can fix quite a few problems. Thank you for taking the time to respond.
Of course!
In Minnesota we have had what they call Behavioral Crisis Units (BCR) for the last about two years after several riots about police violence. They respond unarmed to people in crisis and have had a 100% success rate. BCR are horribly, horribly underfunded and discriminated against economically and critically understaffed. They say if they were funded and staffed properly, they could take literally just 1000's of calls that the police wouldn't have to deal with and never hurt anyone
Have you heard of the book "Same Side Selling?" Could be relevant to your negotiations.
I haven't but I'll definitely check it out. Thanks for the recommendation
Have u ever had a sniper take the shot during a negotiation?
Luckily no
I'm assuming you're keeping a calm voice throughout the whole negotiation process lol.
But how do you do that ? I'm assuming you're only called in if someone is actively going to hurt themselves or others.
I would imagine it to be very hard to not have anger seep through if they're threatening to hurt other people ?
Yes I do my best to keep a level head and calm demeanor. It's not always easy but I've always been a relatively calm person and good at regulating my emotions. I like to think that's why some people recommended I look into the position. The most important thing I remember is whatever they're saying to me isn't personal and if I want to help them it's up to me to be the calm and reasonable person. I've found that even if someone is angry, if you stay calm they will eventually lower their voice and talk with you.
Kudos to you. I could never do that job lol.
I can't imagine having the ability to not be pissed off when someone is horrible to other people.
Do you find you ever end up feeling sympathy / empathy for these people?
Is there a logic to how most of these people think? Or is there drugs / severe mental illness at play usually ?
I would say in a majority of cases I feel some sort of sympathy/ empathy for them. A lot of the people I deal with are good people who are at the end of their rope and that led them to cause the situation their in. A lot of these people were dealt a bad hand, have mental illness, are addicts who are acting out of character or just people who don't have a support system. I don't necessarily condone their actions, but I can understand and appreciate how they got to that point
This right here is what makes you special - you have empathy and an understanding for the person you are working with, I feel like you truly care about them and getting everyone (including that person) out safely
The world needs more law enforcement such as yourself
Other than "stay calm", what are the best pieces of advice you would give to a hostage?
Don't make threats toward the perpetrator, don't make it seem as though there's no way out or no alternative solution, don't tell them the cops are about to bust down the door and shoot them. And humanize yourself as much as possible. If you're someone who has "wronged" the perpetrator. Acknowledge that you understand that their upset and that you are sorry for hurting them without making it seem as though what they are doing is justified. I know that sounds odd and isn't easy in person, but basically don't say that you deserve what's happening or that what they're doing is proper punishment if that makes sense
Excellent answer. Thank you.
Of course! I feel as though I didn't explain that the best, basically focus your discussion more on how they can move forward and don't focus on the event and how you may have "wronged" them
What are your thoughts on Waco and Ruby Ridge? Could they have been saved, was it a communication breakdown or too aggressive policing, I mean besides the whole cult thing, which was totally the cult leaders doing and cause of the tragedies.
Hey sorry looks like I missed this question, both are obviously complex situations and I don't think negotiations were handled the best in either. For Waco I don't think the chances of saving everyone was far less than at RR
What's a common theme you see with a lot of suspects? also, care to share any techniques on talking to someone in major distress? I've always thought about being a negotiator. De-escalation is weirdly fascinating to me.
A common theme is someone who is at the end of their rope. A lot of people I deal with have recently gone though a bad break up / divorce, lost their kids to DCF or had a loved one die .
I know it should obvious but stay calm. People who feel as though their life is out of control want help and respond well to people who appear calm and in control. Talk to them and try to get them to focus on what they can do moving forward and not on what's happened in the past.
This is really informative. Thanks man
How are you? How do you handle dealing with those situations. I can only imagine e it has an effect on you personally.
I'm well, thanks! It's just something I've always been decent at and have a passion for!
Similar to my other question, have you ever felt "bested"? How so?
Hmm idk if I woukd say I've been bested. I've definitely misspoke or been corrected before. Also often they will bring up a good point and I'll acknowledge it. Negotiating in my eyes isn't adversarial, it's me attempting to calm them down and guide them towards a resolution that's best for everyone
This profession has given you some advantage when negotiating with your wife or a girlfriend?
Not so much negotiating as just communicating but absolutely
What are some defusing phrases I can tell my gf who finds a new crisis daily?
Haha, talk with her about what's bothering her and how you can help her. Also just remember sometimes people just want to vent. Unfortunately I don't have any specific phrases. Definitely don't ask her if she's on her period lol
“Calm down.”
“Maybe if you weren’t so fat you would act so crazy.”
I take you hostage right now, how do you talk me out of keeping you hostage?
Well what's your reason for taking me hostage in the first place?
It’s a hobby, helps me blow off steam. I probably won’t kill you but I will try and keep you long enough for you to get Stockholm syndrome. So be prepared for a long hostage/hostage taker relationship.
Fair enough, I appreciate your keeping me around. When you say blow off steam, you mean from work and home life or do you have something more going on?
Just something to break up the monotony of life. Every day is so boring why not take a hostage for a little R&R. Some people go fishing, some people play chess in the park, I take hostages for a couple weeks. It’s not weird unless you make it weird.
How intelligent would you rate yourself 1-10? How intelligent would you rate the average bad guy you have to talk to in a crisis/hostage situation 1-10?
I'd say I'm around a 6
As for the people I negotiaten with, it truly ranges anywhere from a 1 all the way to a 12/10
How does it feel dealing with someone who appears twice as intelligent to you
Interesting thanks for the response have a blessed one
What's your opening pick-up line???
Also, how do you get someone to step back right from the very split second they are about to use violence?.. like the moment you can pick up that little inflection in their voice where you know their words are about to become actions; what are some good tricks for talking down those actions in the heat if the moment?
My opening line is basically just who I am and that I'm there to help them. The best way to get someone to calm down while they're in a frantic state is just to remain calm yourself. Ensure them the situation is in control and that talking things through is what is going to get them to where they ultimately want to be
What's your opinion on the Branch Davidian situation?
It was obviously a very layer situation and it's tough to say as someone who wasn't there and didn't experience it. I do my best not to monday morning quarterback. I definitely think there were things that the FBI amd ATF did wrong. The situation wasn't handled properly. However I think David Koresh never planned to surrender and was willing to be a martyr for his beliefs. In that vein it's incredibly difficult to negotiate with someone like that
How often have you managed a situations worse than ideal only to later come up with a better plan you didn't thought on time? How did you improve? Trial & error? Some learning source of recommendation?
Trial and error is definitely a part of the game, I would say most situations end with the result I'm looking for, ie the person surrenders peacefully and often times gets mental health counseling. The book never split the difference is very good
What are a few techniques that you often have to go to in order to talk a crazy person down?
Also, do you have to act like you accept their craziness and are on their side?
This is a great question, it's important not to validate someone who may be hallucinating or have an altered perception of reality, but tell them that you believe they see/ hear/ think something is real.
As for techniques, just trying to ground them and build a report. It's important to make sure they don't feel trapped and like there's no way out
Interesting and absolutely fascinating! I've lived with an abusive father and the way that I handled that was validating his insanely huge feelings. I've learned that being "on their side" seems to take the wind out of their sails. Very clever of you!
For example, if they explained that they're mad at a certain thing (that's not hallucinatory), would you validate them and acknowledge that?
I would acknowledge there anger and even say they're justified to feel angry but that handling their anger in that manner isn't going to improve things and get them what they want
What is your closest shave with death on the job?
I was almost stabbed when I rounded the corner as I reached the top of a flight of stairs
Jeezus. Glad they missed
Thanks! Me too haha