In the United States. I also had a double major-homeland security and criminal justice with a crime scene investigation concentration. It’s extremely dejecting and I’m not sure where to go from here. I failed a polygraph for a corrections officer in a tiny town and also after completing alllll the other steps for a customs officer in Customs and Border protection. The weird thing is I failed the same section in both-“serious crimes,” like crimes where you’ve hurt someone. I’m not a liar. The only thing I can possibly think of is that I’ve been a victim of sa and domestic violence and being asked about it gets my heart rate up and whatever. What do I do? I’m very stressed and sad tbh. My parents want me to try to go to school for something else, my boyfriend says I should try to learn new skills I’m interested in, but I simply can’t find an interest in anything.
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Polygraph is bullshit anyway. Don't feel bad. I have the same degree. I sell seafood :).
Same degree, I teach English in Spain!
You teach Spainglish???
Same degree project manager
Same degree, I work as a Contract Paralegal
the period after the smiley threw me for a loop and i couldn't figure out if it was some new one i hadn't seen or not
Sally? Is that you by the sea shore?
Shells... dammit... sea shells... always confuses me.
The interviewer should ask you if certain questions bring up memories and issues like this. Your body is naturally reacting to a memory that’s adjacent to the question. Moving forward if the interviewer doesn’t ask you if certain questions might trigger a nervous system response , proactively address it in the beginning
Polygraphs don’t work it’s a myth.
Not the point.
They’re still in use and so they’re sharing advice to help OP with that unfortunate reality.
Obviously
Exactly. There’s a reason they aren’t allowed as evidence
They still have a purpose though.
Yes, to test if you have anxiety or not. Lol
But I think the opinions suggest that there is an ongoing debate about the reliability of the polygraph." Thomas wrote that most states ban polygraph evidence, and Vaughan said that breaks down into 29 states with outright bans, 16 states that allow some test results if both the prosecution and defense agree to it. Wiki.
This. Disclose the issue before you start. My SO did this for a similar interview and still got the position. Having a case number for verification purposes would be helpful as well.
See The Lie Behind the Lie Detector, AntiPolygraph.org's free book about polygraph validity (it has none), policy, procedure, and countermeasures. It explains the trickery (not science) on which polygraph "testing" relies and offers strategies for mitigating the risk of a false positive outcome (failing despite telling the truth):
https://antipolygraph.org/pubs.shtml
I'm a co-author of the book. If you have any questions you'd like to ask privately, you can reach me via Signal at ap_org.01 .
I have a question. Are people with criminal justice degrees really not taught about this in school? If not, that's kinda scary but somehow not surprising.
I was told they are not to be used as evidence. Than I was told anything you admit via a poly can be used against you.
Doctors don’t even get taught nutrition. Lol. They don’t really want us to succeed.
I was taught they’re not admissible but not ways to beat them. I know they’re not valid but that doesn’t mean they aren’t used for these government jobs.
Thank you so much!!!
Polygraphs are fake. It's sad but true.
They only kind of work because people believe they work and get stressed about getting caught lying.
You shouldn't work for somewhere that still believes that the intensity of electricity measurable through your body can possibly distinguish fact from fiction. I'm sure you don't need to be told this as a Criminal Justice graduate but that shit was literally disowned 100 years ago
It's required for those jobs. Heck an IT job for a police department requires it.
As everyone stated they are 100% unreliable. Which is why courts don't accept them.
Whenever this comes up, the real question is always "then why the hell are they being used this way?"
Good question.
So I’ve been through a polygraph test when I was going through the FBI special agent application process.
To me it seemed like it was just another way to interview you. The guy administering the test to me was asking all sorts of questions and taking notes on everything. Some was just causal conversation and then there was the whole lie detection point.
Seemed like they want to see how you’d react under certain stressful situations.
I passed the polygraph test but they terminated my conditional offer after that. Yeah I passed as in I didn’t lie but something about that conversation made them think they shouldn’t hire me.
So for these types of jobs it’s another tool to screen you and provide insights beyond “lie detection.”
Like what? I was perfectly calm and didn’t admit to any (nonexistent) crime after they said I failed. Smh😭
Because people were told and believe that they are, "lie detectors". Which they are not.
But every entity that requires this as part of the hiring process knows this.
A very large amount of desirable jobs are locked behind security clearances.
For instance, in my role it's an INSTANT 50k/y increase when you clear it.
Polygraphs detect anxiety, nothing more. They’ve been ruled a pseudoscience by the Supreme Court but are still used and relied on … for reasons. Studies have shown that when applying for jobs, their accuracy levels drop to almost 50/50 as they can’t detect the difference between a lie or anxiety over try to get a job. Worse, there’s numerous cases of high profile individuals passing them with flying colors because they were completely confident.
I’ve taken four different ones in my life. One I failed after it turned into a screaming session when the interviewer didn’t like my answer about violating people’s trust when I disclosed about cheating in previous relationships, and another was inconclusive after they couldnt get a read on the “serious crimes” bit. However, I passed the retest with flying colors, so it’s also very subjective.
Don’t be discouraged. Apply elsewhere. CBP also has one of the highest failure rates for polys in the nation and one of the lowest job satisfactions among law enforcement.
You’re the 2nd person who said CBP has one of the highest failure rates and that makes me feel a lot better 😭😭I’ll keep looking
There’s many, many reputable articles covering their hiring practices.
I work with CBP often enough as well, there just not an agency you want to spend a career with. You will spend your first couple years trapped in an airport booth scanning passports, taking pictures and asking questions.
Every agency has its tedious missions, but the burnout is incredibly high for them.
Also, consider taking on a non-poly position that is on the career track for your ideal poly’d jo. As your tenure grows, so does your access to who’s who and how things are run,
If by 5 years you haven’t found your allies or the background material on the interpretation thresholds for false positives, false negatives, failures, and what is done about it — yeah, it’s more than just the polygraph holding you back.
Some drugs can increase your chances of passing a polygraph. Tranquilizers or beta blockers I think would work. Maybe talk to your doctor about it.
Propanolol ftw
Yeah I was gonna say just take some beta blockers
Go to polygraph school instead! If you can beat em join em lol
I think you have to pass polygraphs to even get to that point sadly 😆
Keep trying and don’t give up! You’ll break through. You may want to start looking into how polygraphs are implemented into the organization, because — well, one thing I’ve learned about government work is that for every rule that says you can’t there’s another one that says you can.
You need to find those policies and make them wor for you. You may consider hiring someone with expertise and credential in that domain, and have them run a test on you.
It is well known that some folks will always pass or fail regardless of the validity of their submissions but due to the way they’re wired.
Thank you!
Not all security jobs require one either. Keep looking.
Here's the thing, once you are caught "lying," you're fucked. Any law enforcement agency you apply to will get that filed polygraph test and you are essentially blacklisted.
When I was applying for various law enforcement agencies here, the common thing I heard about the polygraph was, "you lie, you die" and they're talking about your prospects of ever joining because they take integrity very seriously. Like you, I failed a polygraph but I did not understand two questions being asked so I misunderstood and put the wrong answer until I said a different one AFTER I was explained it correctly. Well it didn't matter, every single agency after that rejected me and I fit the bill: in shape, aced evert physical, speak Spanish and have a degree and no criminal record. So I feel you on how frustrating it is to get shafted over a stupid mistake.
My advice, since it's already on record of lying, I'd suggest following what your parents say. Time is now going to be the name of the game. You trying to apply now will just result in the same outcome because that failed polygraph is fresh. Need to let some years pass and in that time, better yourself. Volunteer, do ride alongs, etc in that time so it shows you are dedicated. You're going to need friends in law enforcement to be able to vouch for you. But, still need a job for those few years so I'd suggest look at a community College to save you some bucks
Okay, thank you❤️
I have such bad anxiety, I know there is no way a polygraph would ever work for me. The needles would be off the charts while they're just asking me my name and address 😂
They asked if you watch Melrose Place, didn't they?
Don't beat yourself up for failing the poly for CBP they are notorious for failing people. Keep applying for other federal jobs.
Okay thank you! ❤️❤️
Knew a guy who graduated with this. He’s a plumber doing autocad design.
Time for you to consider Law School.
I don’t know why agencies still use that witch doctor shit. They might as well choose candidates based on their star signs if they use polygraph tests.
It doesn’t make sense to me. Shouldn’t the examiner have established a baseline before; taking into account those factors? Anyway it’s almost accepted by everyone nowadays that polygraph is not a reliable method and nobody should be using it anymore for these purposes!
To be honest I didn’t think of these as a potential issue at that point. Neither asked me if I’ve been a victim of anything. It was only after I failed this same section twice and I was at home wondering what went wrong that I thought maybe that was the reason. But I still don’t really know.
Can’t you just take some beta blockers before the poly?
No clue how to get those
I get ads all the time on IG for telehealth services for them and anxiety.
Try beta blockers. They throw polygraphs off because they blunt your physical stress responses.
Idk why everyone is saying “polygraphs are fake, just don’t work” lmao, sure they’re fake but that doesn’t mean acknowledging their unreliability is gonna fix it. Hell, even a transcription job at a local PD requires a full background check, crim justice knowledge test, and several polygraph tests. Just not taking one isn’t viable.
Try out meditation techniques while taking the test. It can be tricky to concentrate on both, so practice beforehand with various questions that could induce stress.
Exactly lmao like yes I know they’re not valid but that doesn’t help me here 😭😭thank you for the meditation tip!!
Weird, because they could easily check if you were charged or convicted of a serious crime.
But they ask if I’ve ever committed those crimes at all, not just ones I’ve been caught for lmao
I cannot believe they use polygraphs as a analytic tool for hiring. That's absurd. There's a reason why Polygraph tests are not admissible in court in many many countries.
Take meditation classes.
I knew of a woman who applied for a job with AZ Dept of Public Service. She had to take a polygraph (we all had to take it) but she was concerned because she had dabbled in prostitution. She got herself worked up be for the test so that her first answers (used for calibration, I suppose) produced a large reaction. That masked all the other answers and she passed.
Yep, that’s exactly what you do by creating a false baseline response.
During mine I was instructed to write the number 5 on a piece of paper and they taped it to the wall. They then asked “Did you write the number one, two, three, four, five, six, etc.” and instructed me to “lie” and say ‘no’ when asked if I wrote number 5. Before each answer I paused a moment and breathed slowly, but when asked if I wrote number 5 I took several shallow, stuttering breaths and flexed my abdomen and fingers before answering. I could see the response skyrocket well above the other answers.
The rest of the polygraph was cake with no answer exceeding the initial baseline false response. Though, they said that I failed because one answer was slightly above all the others when asked ‘have you ever lied to a supervisor’. We did three rounds and got asked the same question each time, two of them had the same response, the third respond was higher because I was getting annoyed with the bullshit pseudoscience.
They allowed us to “challenge” the results so I did. Ended up getting in anyway and half our class was ‘inconclusive’ or failures.
I failed the polygraph for a first responder position. They made us do three rounds with a ten minute break between each one.
They said I failed because one question answered slightly different. “Have you ever lied to a supervisor” had “no” for all three times I was asked and only one showed a jump on the machine so it was an auto fail.
Still became a first responder after I challenged the validity of the results with the investigators supervisor. Most of our class was ‘inconclusive’ or failures. They know it’s pseudoscience, they just do it to justify wasting money.
Unethical Life Protip: It’s based on breathing rate, heart rate, and sweating. When they create the baseline for you by making you purposely lie, flex all of your muscles and breath shallow rapid breaths prior to answering. It’ll create a false threshold for you to pass. You’ll have to go above that false threshold to be considered a lie because the ‘lie’ you give them is what they compare your other answers to.
So, if they say “draw the number 5” and you do that, they’ll tape it to the wall and ask “Did you draw the number one, two, three, four, five, six, etc” and tell you to purposely lie when they ask if you drew the number 5. You’re telling the truth on all other numbers by saying no, so your body should react by knowingly lying about number 5. When you take shallow breaths and flex all of your muscles immediately before saying “no” it creates a baseline that you’re not likely to exceed for the future questions.
That’s so frustrating, I’m glad you got the job anyway!
Wouldn’t they notice me doing that though? If I twitched at all they’d be like please try to stay still. I think they’d definitely notice me breathing weird.
Nope, just have to take several stuttered breaths and flex the muscles. They can’t see through your clothing, so don’t make it obvious and you can do it. It’s not so much that you pant like a dog, but several short breaths in through your nose and flexing your abs, finger twitches like your cold, etc.
They know the polygraph is bullshit, but they’re ‘licensed’ and get paid to do it so they continue using the shit. The trick is to create the false baseline during the ‘forced lie’ to have any other reaction, such as a bad memory, stay below that line.
Polygraphs don’t work well. It’s not you. Don’t worry about it — no self respecting job would require a polygraph anyway, so if you’re getting rejected from jobs that require it, you’re dodging a bullet.
Polygraph is trash. When I took it I spiked on a terrorism question🤦🏻♂️🤦🏻♂️🤦🏻♂️
Have you tried not lying?
Sounds like you have a lawsuit on your hands.
Maybe contact a lawyer.
Get drunk or high before you take the test. The questions won’t influence your systems and you’ll pass.
Drunk yes, high no. Otherwise, they would fail a drug test
If that’s a part of it, yeah.
I remember signing up for the army, the first thing they do is put everyone in a classroom seat and do breathalyzers on everyone so they can’t say they were drunk when signing a contract and get out of it (this is like 8 am). I remember we had 2 people get excluded right there.
Exactly lol
The drug test was done at a separate time, way before the polygraph