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Discussion
It seems like every time punk evolves it gets a backlash from the Normie world and even from the older punk world.
So which punk style genre or scene got the worst backlash?
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Ska Punk
Not even a question. It's been nearly 3 decades and people still make fun of ska punk. They're wrong, but they do it anyways
Why though? Is it too "happy" sounding?
I think the whole image of it is fairly corny and that seems to be people's main issue. Those people often don't take into account that's kind of the point though.
Whenever I hear this, I play operation ivy. One of the first and In my opinion, the best to blend punk and ska together. Came out in the late 80's and still holds up now.
Like pop punk, a lot of really bad ska punk bands have been forgotten about. Syncopation is hard and punk is sloppy. Combining the two often went very bad
Wall to wall fedoras. Seriously though, Catch 22's Kaesby Nights is an amazing song
one of my first ska songs I ever heard, 14 years old. I loved it so much so i played it all the time, but when I’d play it in the car with my conservative Christian parents I’d talk loudly over the part where he says “no one gave a shit about us” so they wouldn’t get mad about the swearing 😅
When they come for me..
Streetlight manifesto, technically, although yes the guy who wrote it was in catch 22
I don't like horns *shrug
but then what do you say about Op Ivy, Goldfinger, and Rancid???
Agreed. People hate fun.
No fun and joy! Only righteous outrage and depression! Positive emotions are for posers! ;)
I'd like everyone to meet half of my 16 year old self.
I mean on tik tok there's people openly embracing ska punk, yeah it's mostly gen z people but it's still people openly embracing it and hopefully that will change the mainstream opinion
Nobodys is claiming the genre was pushed out of existence, just that, of all the sub-genres, its got the most hate the quickest.
I'm a gen z and I love ska punk!
The probably listen a lot to ska punk but don’t even know XD.
They aren’t rlly wrong most of it’s light hearted making fun of it not real hate
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The few songs of theirs I know are absolute bangers.
Just the third wave. Shit is corny on purpose.
Thats what made it fun
There's a line and it was crossed. No thanks. Took away from the work the previous generations before them accomplished.
Whats an example of a crossed line, and how did it impact older bands?
Wait people really hated Ska Punk?
How can they? It’s fun and upbeat as hell!
Self-important downers who think anything but the most serious, messege-laden bands/songs are a frivolous waste of time.
I mean… they literally play on the upbeat!
Perfectly valid.
Always reminds me of TomSka and thusly the picture of him in full Ska apparel
“Ska sucks”
Love ska punk. That was actually my favorite.
I'm gonna come right out and say it.
The backlash to ska and ska-punk was because of racism and sexism.
Ska had band nerds who were often women, black, asian, hispanic.
Punks hated it because it wasn't a white boy club.
Other styles of punk, such as crust and riot grrl, are by no means a "white boy club" and have been popular for decades. Punks just hate ska because it's fun and poppy.
A lot of punks hate riot grrl as well.
Ehhhhh, I find this hard to believe. Its certainly possible, but it'd take a lot of hate to bring a subgenre down like that.
To me, its seems more likely that it was a subgenre that was treated like a summer jam: a sharp spike in popularity over a short period time, played everywhere all the time, people have fun until they get sickn of it and move on. To the public eye, its was just another 90s gimmick, like when swing had that weird little resurgence.
But Im no music historian, so fuck if I know.
I'm 41 and I was there. Looking back there were a ton of shows where punk and ska bands shared the stage but there was an uneasy tension.
People with spikey hair would see a woman setting up a sax and an asian dude on drums and whisper "I bet this band sucks."
The Punk Rock MBA guy talks about it in some of his videos and he was there also.
Looking back as somebody that was a spikey punk in 1997 I really fell short of what my ideals are now as I was one of those people.
Obviously I didn't think it was racist or sexist because "punks can't be racist or sexist" but looking back it was pretty bad and it was all of us, not just me.
Fair enough. Sucks to hear. Ive always found it "funny" that punks pride themselves on being so progressive, yet its so predominantly white dudes. Makes sense some would want to keep it that way.
Dude street punks traditionally love reggae and ska. Same thing with traditional skinheads.Take it from someone who was also there. I'm 45 and started going to shows at 13 yrs old. There's a song called punky reggae party by Bob marley himself that talks about it. Ska and punk started blending in England because rude boys and street punks were both working class street kids. Rude boys were straight up gangsters back then. Some of the really cheese ball ska bands didn't blend with the rudimentary peni crowd but you would always find the crowds together at an opiv or later a rancid show or someone like hepcat or Desmond decker. Listen to the clash. They have reggae influence too. There was more animosity for a band like say the ataris or new found glory from street punks.
But so many people who hate 3rd wave ska love 2 tone that its a cliche… I’m sure there was some overlap between racist people and ska haters, but there was no causal relationship between the two
You're waaaaay off base there, buddy. Punk has never been a white boy club and has always welcomed any and all. The backlash to ska and ska punk came well into the third wave when it got mainstream attention along with punk rock. There was pushback because it's around the same time that the jock kids everywhere discoovered hip hop and nu metal. And axe body spray, lol. To view this phenomenon, i advise watching limp bizkit play their most date rapey show ever, woodstock 99. Anyway, those guys viewed ska kids as what they are. Band geeks. Everyone knows the clash of the two. It's been a cliche since forever. Ska bands are dorks. Dorks get picked on by jock dudes. But I guarantee that even the jock guys listen to some 90s Playlists now and then and crank some bosstones in the car. https://youtu.be/YPk7-fCvbao?si=M8u9rnoavInIRQzZ
Then why did 7 Seconds write "not just boys fun" 40 years ago?
It wasn't jocks. Jocks loved ska.
It was the punks that were racist, not the jocks.
Dude how old are you? That song is about macho assholes that dont belong at shows and the entire last verse is about the fact that the punk scene is there to empower females. What about that song says that punk rock was a racist scene? It's all about rejecting that mentality and promoting the opposite. And I don't know where you're from but everywhere I was in the 90's there was very little jock and ska mixing together. A jock jamming the assorted jellybeans or reel big fish? Lol no. The jocks were all about DMX and master p at the time. If they listened to rock it would likely be metallica, Pantera nu metal stuff, tool, and some skate punk like pennywise or guttermouth Sublime was popular with them and that's as close to ska as those guys were getting. How many jocks do you know of that would do something intentionally dorky?
Seven seconds also wrote the songs anti klan, and racism sucks. Just so you're aware.
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Yeahhh....that would be two tone. You're mistaken.
Ska punk and by extension, that swing revival that it spawned which got snuffed out pretty quickly after hitting the mainstream somehow
Sorry cherry Poppin daddies fans
Crossover hardcore/heavy metal/rap didn’t sit well with many punk purists at one time.
For some, the rest of us love it, and live it.
I think if the daddies had a less weird name the trend could have continued.
I literally just realized it's about fucking. To be fair, they probably haven't crossed my mind since I was a teenager and I didn't give a shit about them then, either.
Squirrel Nut Zippers walked so CPD could run.
Royal crown review was legit though. Members of youth brigade and other punk bands and had much more of a Chicago mob era speakeasy vibe. Much less cheesy. Still didn't last very long though. God that was a weird ass era in music. Shortly after that everyone started listening to afi and bought black hair dye and eyeliner. .
Yep, sorry about that. My town was responsible for the Daddies.
Your apology is noted and appreciated.
The thing is, I think the swing revival would've lasted longer if it had more of a punk influence, like how rockabilly became psychobilly.
Hey, rockabilly didn't become psychobilly, they're both very much their own things. Psychobilly has been around since the '80s
Hasil Adkins
https://markozen.com/2020/12/31/the-crazed-father-of-psychobilly-rock-the-unparalleled-hasil-adkins/
Hell yeah!
Oi! *In my opinion, it’s amazing. But, on the other hand… The racist politics that influenced some of the people and bands, and totally ruined the skinhead culture. The regular folks can’t unsee every skinhead in the subculture as racist.
Red laces aren’t allowed in my clubs. Nazi punks fuck off.
I wear red shoes with red laces…. Uh, what am I missing?
Wear what you want, it doesn't matter.
Back in the day, people represented their politics, and crews with their colours of their laces and braces (80’s).
For traditional skins, doesn’t really matter… we are/were stylish, it’s all about looking Smart in our Top Gear. (Matching braces, to laces, to Shirt, pocket square.).
I miss going to shows, and looking my best. When you get older, some of us humans become husbands and dads.
Add yellow laces and sell hamburgers?
lace code is dead man
Skrewdriver were the godfathers of Oi, then they fell in with the National Front and became the atrocity they are remembered for today
Sham 69 were the godfathers of Oi!
Jimmy Pursey, was a great front man. He tried to get us all united.
Now Pursey is on the sex offenders list in the UK. Not a great example.
Really, are you serious? I need to put in my research.
this just bummed me out, so hard…. fuck
Far from it… They were punk rockers, that got an opportunity from the National Front. So they changed their political stance. There were many bands, that came before them that made that street punk sound.
Screwdrivers early stuff was fantastic, but the political opportunity made them take a hard-right stance.
Has to be 90s pop punk. It got backlash from virtually every direction because unlike most sub genres, it was quite popular. Most punks didn’t like it, “grunge” kids didn’t like it, metalheads didn’t like it, lots of parents didn’t like it, the press was hit and miss, but it was big for regular kids who really wanted that edge but weren’t looking for anything too extreme.
Was in a little band signed to a little label back then. We were pop punk, but I was a hardcore listener and I always wrote some fast and angry music for the records. And we went hard live. I get it.
Plus, the likes of Good Charlotte and Simple Plan just destroyed any cred the genre had.
The Young and the Hopeless is a great album, and I will die on that hill.
I'll be right there next to you. S/T record can come too.
I'm interested to know why you think they destroyed any "cred" the genre had? Not just reasons you personally dislike them either, because the two can often be confused.
Good Charlotte started off as a local band, who toured fairly consistently for like 8 years before getting anywhere. Even after the release of their first album they were still a support act. Not to mention they were supporting the likes of Bad Religion and Goldfinger. They didn't just blow up overnight.
Simple Plan blew up quicker, but that was because it was formed by members of pre-existing band, Reset, who already had some traction in Canada.
At their worst, which was also their most popular, their, for lack of a better word, schtick, laid bare the formulaic nature of what the genre had become.
They were unimaginative, trite and, worst of all, boring.
And by exposing the artifice of the genre, they took away its power to entertain.
My 2 cents, anyway.
I want to say you're referring to their 2007ish era? I had definitely lost interest by then, and don't disagree with you in regards to formulaic songwriting. However, I also feel by then they were no longer really a pop punk (at least as far as it's 90s/00s form) band, and had moved further into pop rock territory, which I would say pop punk as a whole had too.
The 90s/early 00s bands, despite playing poppier music, still felt like they were born out of the punk ethos, at least to me as a kid/teenager during that time. Which is why you'd see them touring with bands like Bad Religion, Pennywise, NOFX etc.
I feel you could comfortably argue there is a distinct point in time where Good Charlotte let go of any remaining DIY ethos they once had. I won't deny that, and they're not the only band who did either. However, I think there are also pop punk bands from that era, who had some level of mainstream success (say New Found Glory for example), who have managed to hold onto it.
I used to go to 924 Gilman in 90-91 and saw Green Day several times before they signed to a major. I have always been into the heavier sounding bands so I thought they were boring. They got signed because they were rebellious but not scary. I have tried listening to pop-punk on and off for years but I just can't get into it.
I never cared for it with some rare exceptions either, but for the most part never had a vendetta against it.
I really hate Good Charlotte though.
SoCal, 78-84. OG punks hated it because it was violent and stopped being about the art. Punks didn’t just have to worry about getting beaten by the cops, they also had to worry about being beaten by jocks, and other members of the general public. Later scenes the backlash was “oh this music sucks.” Backlash in late 70s/early 80s could get you killed.