The Subreddit for Netflix's "Avatar: The Last Airbender" (NATLA). A new live-action show reimagining the Nickelodeon animated series. Season One is out now! Seasons Two & Three have been greenlit!
Speculation/Suggestion
I couldn't type a spoiler in the title about Yue being a fox but yeah, her being a fox was a little weird to me at first. Well, not really weird but more like a huh moment.
I've seen some people complain about Yue being a fox. And to an extent, I agree because not only is she technically a koi fish, she's also the moon spirit, and now she's somehow a fox? When she gave her life back to the moon, does that mean she's a fox, a fish, or the moon, you know? lmao.. But tbf, the koi fishes are only the mortal forms of the ocean and the moon spirit which aren't really their true spiritual manifestation unlike the way we've seen Koh as a centipede spider and how Hei Bai is pretty much a panda. We've never actually seen the true form of the moon spirit besides the literal moon itself or Yue appearing as a ghost in Book 2 & 3 of the animated show.
And because of that, maybe I'm okay with Yue's spirit form as a white fox, assuming that the true spirit form of the moon is also a white fox. In a way, it also indirectly explains the reason why Yue's hair turns white when the moon spirit gave her some of its life because the fox has white fur. Sidenote: maybe it's a reach to associate Sokka's Water Tribe garb having three fur tassels and the fox being three-tailed. It's an interesting coincidence though.
Also, I was reading up a little bit just in case I found explanations from mythology. It seems like Sokka and Yue in this live action might have elements taken from a Chinese Mythological Hero "Yu the Great", as if they took parts of Yu's life and wrote them in Sokka and Yue's. Although this may just be confirmation bias, here's why I think the myth inspired the live action: In this myth, Yu's father, Gun, failed to control the great flood. (I cannot cross-reference this but apparently, Gun is a kind of mythical fish or that the literal translation of his name means big fish.* *)
At some point in his life, Yu encountered a nine-tailed fox which he took as good omen to marry Lady Tushan.* However, with the land plagued by floods, Yu took it upon himself to learn from his father's mistakes and stop the floods, leaving his pregnant wife behind four days after the wedding saying that he doesn't know when he would return home. He sacrificed a great deal of his body to control the floods and his efforts meant that the Yellow River didn't flood again for over a millennia.* Yu the Engineer or Great Yu Controls the Waters are titles attributed to Yu's legendary efforts.* I don't have the full myth and I don't have the resources to cross-reference myth and historical facts but what do you think? It seems that it inspired details like Sokka meeting a white fox and that white fox is Yue, the moon being a waterbender or the one who controls the water, Yue becoming the moon and leaving Sokka behind. If we want some delulu to connect the dots, in the cartoon Jet episode, Sokka evacuated the villages when the freedom fighters blasted the dam and flooded the village, or maybe even when Sokka instructed the Fortune Teller village to dig a trench and redirect the lava away from the village which was pretty much what Yu did to redirect the flooding, and NATLA also brought up Sokka being an engineer. But this is all delulu stuffs lol.
It might also be simply based on Native American culture, perhaps based on the Meshwakihug, Red-Earth People or are referred to as "Foxes" which had a medicine society/major religious organization, Midewiwin, devoted to healing the sick and seeking supernatural aid for their tribe.*
On the other hand, the fox could also be attributed to Inuit arctic fox tales and Japan's Kitsune which are both known as shapeshifters. I really want to point out the arctic fox as a symbol of adaptation and survival in extreme conditions* which perhaps influenced the shapeshifting mythology in Inuit culture as a metaphor for adapting to change. The reason why I pointed this out was because the finale of NATLA emphasized that water is the element of change. Water can really adapt... or shall I say shapeshift. LOL sorry but you get the point.
I can't find anything on kitsune but I did read that white, nine-tailed foxes and the number of its tail is related to its age and power.* I can speculate that the original moon spirit form might be a white fox with nine tails who gave some of its power and life to Yue and assume that this explains why her fox form only had three tails. I suppose the moon really is the element of change because it adapted and survived as it realized the inevitability of death when it allowed itself to be mortal and vulnerable out of empathy for the living. It also mirrors the principle of water healing where you must know pain in order to heal it, so in some way the Moon wanted to know what it was like to be mortal who can die in order for it to provide life. It's a beautiful theme but also... poor Yue lol.
I also don't want to forget the obvious inspiration for Yue which might be the Japanese Tale of Princess Kaguya who grew up as a human and attracted many suitors but she eventually returned to the moon.
All of this rambling but maybe the writers of NATLA thought that a white fox with three tails is just cool and I'm just overthinking all of this. lol... Oh, and I'm not quite familiar with any of the cultures I referenced so it would be nice if people who knows more could talk about it below. 💙☯
Edit: I found a cute peruvian tale about a fox and a mole trying to climb to the moon. Idk, what to make of it but I wanted to share it either way. I also found some interesting descriptions of The Moon on Musashi Plain woodblock print (1891). You can read here and here.
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I really liked the changes they made with Yue in this so hearing about the real life mythologies is so cool. This was such an interesting read, thank you for doing all of that research and sharing it!!!
You're welcome! Glad you found it interesting. But I do hope they share behind the scenes about the changes they made, including the additions they made on Yue and the spiritworld. It would be great. 🙏🌙
My take was fairly simple. Since I knew of nothing it would contradict to have her appear as a three tailed fox, I just accepted it.
I don't know why she is a fox, but I don't think there's a reason why she shouldn't be a fox.
The Koi fish is a form that the Moon Spirit took, but it's not its true form. And while Yue's life was given to her by the moon spirit it's not like she is the moon spirit while she's alive as a human. Otherwise the moon wouldn't have gone dark when the fish was stabbed – the moon spirit truly died that time.
Instead, Yue's true form is as we see her: a human girl. That's primarily who she is, she's only a little part spirit. So maybe the fox just fits her personality and sense of self best, and that's why she takes that form in the spirit world. Maybe it also changes from time to time since she only visits the spirit world when she is dreaming and we all know how strange dreams can be.
I think adding Yue to the spirit world was a nice way to connect Sokka and Yue right away. There are only two episodes for them to form a connection, and the focus is mostly somewhere else. The time for them to fall in love is short, even in the animation – but we forgive it more easily in a cartoon.
See, I would totally agree with you because this is logical. The only reason why I'm not fully buying it is because it's not very clear what "some of it's life is within me" or "essence" means. We don't have any in-world explanation besides Yue that spirits can somehow split some of their "life" and give it to someone. I believe there is a reason why Yue's eyes glow blue when everything else was colorless and that reason also explains why she was able to freeze water on Sokka's feet so he couldn't stop her from sacrificing herself. And that reason, I speculate is because technically there are two moon spirits but one is stronger than the other and the weaker one is Yue. If she wasn't also a moon spirit, she wouldn't have been able bend at all because the moon died already. In my head, the fox can only really be the spiritual form of the moon spirit because Yue said herself: she was only able to enter the spirit world because she's part spirit and she's only done that in her dreams.
Unlike the Avatar, whose soul is fully bonded with Raava through harmonic convergence, Yue is only part spirit and mostly human so her spiritual capabilities are not yet as strong as Master Airbenders or the Avatar who can fully project themselves into the spiritworld. And the phrases "part spirit" or "some of it's life is within me" or "essence" would have us believe that she wasn't really healed, the moon spirit is literally inside of her or at least a part of it. Besides, I would argue, the fact that she could only enter the spiritworld through her dreams might suggest that it is only because she's asleep at night and the moon is in the night sky, therefore, her spiritual connection is stronger and kind of activates the moon spirit within her that allows her to enter the spiritworld much like how waterbenders get full moon-enhanced waterbending at night. (However, dreams aren't necessarily limited for nighttime sleep. Well tbf, it was night time in the real world when Sokka met the white fox in the spiritworld but that requires thinking about time zones of Senlin Village vs Agna Qel'a vs Spiritworld that I don't think works in a metaphysical world lol).
Regardless, I'm leaning more on the fox being the moon's manifestation instead of Yue just like how Tenzin drew a clear separation between Raava vs who Korra really is, which meant that while they are one entity as an avatar, they have different and separate physical manifestations. Or at least, that's what I'll think until we get further explanations.
Whatever helps you explain it for you. 🙂 I see no issues with the idea that Yue has a connection to the moon's powers without having to be the moon spirit herself. To me that makes more sense than the fox being the moon's spirit form. But to each their own.
Thanks for reading my ramblings 🙏
I liked the concept. Sokka and Yue's romance was weird to me in the original show because it happened so fast but she still meant so much to him. I like the idea that they had some kind of spiritual connection. Like, maybe Yue and Sokka were spiritually meant to be together, and that's why they connected with each other so quickly, but after she died he just found peace with someone else. But imo they ruined it by not having enough time to develop the relationship again.
And it makes perfect sense to me that Yue would be spiritually strong and have bending, as someone with the life force of the moon spirit. Everything you said feels spot on too.
One other influence, while not the typical cultures ATLA draws from, could be the Greek goddess Io. Not sure if the Paladins representation of her is mythologically accurate, but she has a lot of moon and white fox imagery in that game. I know a moon of Jupiter was named after her and doing a quick ctrl + F on her Wikipedia page for fox doesn't have any results, but I'm sure Hi-Rez had to draw inspiration from somewhere for her whole fox vibe.
That's cool!
I found this just today: it's a peruvian tale about a fox and a mole climbing up to the moon. It's a cute tale but idk what to make of it. Well, if we were trying to look where the moon and fox relationship came from from both Paladin and NATLA, I guess this is our best bet lol. Let me know what you think~
https://www.limaeasy.com/peru-guide/history-of-peru/peruvian-legends-myths-tales/moon-rope
This is interesting as well.
Edit: more info
My biggest frustration is that Yue should have been a rabbit in spirit form if she was going to appear as an animal. There are countless East Asian AND indigenous myths about the rabbit in the moon. Foxes or kitsunes make literally no sense in both the realms of asian mythology and also in Avatar land where the main fox spirits we see are working in the library. Like i literally thought she was one of those when she popped up.
The original series creators were very sensitive in their inclusion of details that were little references to Asian and Indigenous culture that this was honestly surprising.
The Moon rabbit legend is popular and ancient and part of local folklore throughout Asia. It’s found in diverse cultures throughout China, Japan, India, Korea, Sri Lanka, Cambodia, Thailand, Vietnam, and Myanmar. It is also found in Mayan and Aztec legend.
They dropped the ball so hard making her a fox.
If you say it that way, then just like some have pointed out, Yue appearing as a fox right after they saw Wan Shi Tong serves as some kind of a red herring, a distraction from the fact that Sokka can talk to a spirit when only Aang should be able to do so, at least in this version of ATLA.
My biggest frustration is that Yue should have been a rabbit in spirit form if she was going to appear as an animal.
I wasn't completely aware of the moon rabbit. In the discussion, just to be clear, I was proposing that the moon's true form is a nine-tiled fox. The moon rabbit, from what I've read is often just a normal rabbit going to the moon, a rabbit being rewarded with its silhouette on the moon, or a classic tale of explaining pareidolia. So, maybe let's look at the confusing lore:
Original Waterbender: Moon (The only non-animal elemental master.)
Original Earthbender: Badgermoles (related to earth, like irl moles and badgers)
Original Firebenders: Dragons (fire-breathing creatures in irl legends and myths)
Original Airbenders: Air Bisons (The only animal elemental master that has no irl relation to the element)
The interesting thing is how water doesn't have an animal bender in the same way that the dragons and firebending is connected to the sun. The sun warriors worship the sun for giving energy and life not just destruction like fire, and they respect dragons for teaching them how to bend. The waterbenders worship the ocean/ ocean spirit for giving them life and they respect the moon/ moon spirit for its power to waterbend so they regard the moon as their master.
The issue I have with this lore is spirits aren't supposed to be able to bend in the first place because they don't have a physical body, like... wtf lol. In relation, any bender that meditates into the spiritworld cannot bend because they don't have their physical body with them, unless they enter through the portal. So like... ????? To "fix" this, do we now go on a full conspiracy theory that the moon was originally an animal which transformed itself into the moon in order to create balance in the beginning of earth? The lore is shaking and the copium is copiuming but it could all make sense lol. Let's try and entertain the idea of an animal waterbender which transformed into the moon. I could totally see a whale as the original waterbender. We could also speculate that maybe the rabbit was the original waterbender like you said, which ascended up to the moon to become the moon rabbit/ moon spirit, then eventually got bored of being immortal and turned into a mortal koi fish lol. Clearly, it can become incredibly messy.
I think the biggest mistake is for the lore to write a waterbending spirit in the first place. BUT, tbf, it can be argued that the physical body of the spirit is the actual celestial moon body which allows it to bend water. However, this would contradict the sun and dragon in the first place because the first firebender are the dragons and not the sun; that the first waterbender should've been an animal and not the moon. Instead, I think it's better to theorize that the Moon being an ancient spirit meant that it knows energybending just like Raava, Vaatu, and the Lion Turtles. If the separation of the elements is an illusion according to Guru Pathik, the center of the venn diagram of elements should be energybending. So in a roundabout copium way, the moon waterbends through energybending because everything is energy. Still, ATLA has a lot of explaining to do if this was the case.
I mean, the moon and the ocean being koi fishes doesn't really make sense either, unless I'm missing some other folklore. It makes even less sense that in Chinese Waterfall legend, the koi symbolizes perseverance for swimming upstream and turning into a golden dragon which is something that we don't see addressed not even in the Fire Nation. And even lesser sense if we consider that Tiger symbolizes Yin and Dragon as Yang in Taoism carrying over from China to Japan. Now that I think about it, Wan Shi Tong's knowledge seekers shouldn't be foxes anyway, like why are they foxes to begin with when the owner is an owl? I suppose people could argue that foxes in tales are tricksters, hence, tricking people to gain knowledge from them but like... could it not have been other birds, perhaps a raven known to scavenge, and even steal shiny things, or why not just make it smaller owls? lol
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That said, with all the chaos of the lore, we know that both the light and dark spirits have a physical manifestation as Raava and Vaatu kite spirits lol. The kite is their physical but immortal form so they don't have a physical mortal form. Let's say, in the beginning of time, Tui and La both had a physical immortal form which they gave up to have a physical mortal form of two koi fishes. Yet, we don't know what their immortal forms were. So I was proposing La/moon's immortal form as an arctic fox with nine tails. In my head canon, the moon spirit is a mix of the kitsune and the arctic fox because the number of kitsune tails signify its age and power (and the fact that Yue being a three-tailed fox may allude to a life fragment of the moon rather than having all nine tails), while an arctic fox design borrows from Inuit fox tales symbolizing adaptation and survival which is also the core principle of waterbending. Plus, both animals in folklore are shapeshifters, like water that shape shifts according to its environment. Regarding the Tui/ocean's immortal form before transforming into a koi, I'm not entirely sure what it could be. I'm thinking, Tui could take the form of a Sedna, the Inuit god of the sea, which appears to be a mermaid. This goddess controls sea life and provides food to the people which could be connected to the Water Tribes belief that their life comes from the spirit of the ocean; if the ocean spirit dies, the waterbenders die. Basically, a mermaid and an arctic fox gave up their immortal form to become koi fishes.
Or, maybe the lore is non-sense. lol
I'm sorry for the paragraphs. I get carried away a lot. 💀😅
So yue is 1/4 avatar? Get this stupid remake out my face
No, she's part spirit just like in the cartoon.
Yue can only be quarter avatar if Raava is inside her body which is not the case.
You do realize that the only reason the fusion of the carat is special is because raava and the first avatar fused in harmonic convergence. Any spirit can do what raava did, it’s just she’s the only spirit to do so
The two-part Beginnings in LoK suggests that a spirit combining energies completely with a human has never been done before, even more so the literal light spirit merging with a mere human. This is why the Avatar is special. Since then, Raava could never exist outside of the Avatar's body except when it's going through the cycle of reincarnation or when Vaatu extracted Raava out of Korra.
Several thousand years since Wan, in the ATLA cartoon, the moon spirit gave part of its life to Yue so she could live, turning her hair white. Unlike Raava, the moon spirit could still exist as the moon outside of Yue's body. This is also the case with Netflix's ATLA. If both versions are, as you say "yue is 1/4 avatar," then both iterations of Yue would've died when the moon was killed by Zhao, but that's not what happened. She is part spirit. Period. You are forgetting that Yue in the cartoon and in Netflix's has her own life force, her own spirit, a part of the moon's life force, and a part of the moon spirit. The Avatar, however has their own life force, their own spirit, the whole immortality of Raava, and the whole spirit of Raava inside of them.
You do realize that this happened in the OG ATLA too, right?
You do realize that because Yue and the moon before death weren't bound by Harmonic Convergence, that she cannot reincarnate like the Avatar, right?
You do realize that the only reason the fusion of the Avatar is special is because Raava and Wan fused in harmonic convergence, right?
You don’t even realize you agreeing with me dude, I never it was wrong. Just your explanation
I like to think that the fox is her actual spirit form as a human, (like herself and not the moon spirits influence) since her whollllllllle identity is around the moon spirit. If that’s the case being the fox gives her more individuality as a person and not just an existing because of the moon spirit.
I thought about that but then I think there's a reason why he answers Sokka's "how do you enter the spirit world" with: part spirit mostly human. She's reasoning that because she's part spirit, she has one foot in another world which allows her to travel between the spiritworld and the material world without the help of a thin barrier between the worlds or a solstice or an ice moon or a portal (like the Avatar and every other spiritually advanced humans).
It's also important to recall that Yue is characterized with individuality and independence in the live action. In this version, she broke off her engagement with Hahn, she's a priestess, she tries her best to fulfil her duties but sometimes she makes the choice to make ice cream and do something where she's not necessarily needed, and lastly, she makes the choice to return her borrowed life back. Chief Arnook also told Sokka in the aftermath: my daughter always made her own choices. If it was the cartoon, I would've agreed and assumed the same as you but she's different in this version. So, I don't think the fox is "Her".
In the first place, both in ATLA and LoK, they always made sure to differentiate the Avatar Spirit from Aang, Wan, and Korra's soul. All people who have been spirited away are always in human appearance and only spirits have appeared as animals in the spiritworld. My head canon remains unchanged: Physical Moon Spirit=fox. And Yue is just Yue.
Because of this fox variable and her body disappearing in the finale of NATLA, I reckon the next time we see her, she'll appear as herself with fox tails.
Idk why they decided to make her a furry but I was not into it
LMFAOOO