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LolH about 1 month ago
This post is hidden because you reported it for abuse. Show this postThere are 100 entries for The John Peel Show. Many of these submissions have been entered as Recorded At. As The John Peel Show was a Radio Show, this is obviously not correct, and in any case the radio show is not credited like this on the releases. In many cases, it is shown with a broadcast date, or a recorded for credit.
Some submissions have been entered as Produced For, which I can understand and think may be a suitable compromise, even though not technically correct as far as the use of the Produced For role has been defined.
Looking for some input and guidance on this, and tagging EvanC015 as he has entered quite a few of these.
Thanks in advance for any assistance, and apologies if you didn't want tagging
andygrayrecords typoman2 avalon67 Opdiner sebfact mcr1 d@iscosanddragons cellularsmoke hmvh mtausig TopCats45s teninchfan andrenafulva rdvriese MJG196 clover Silvermo slfreak -
Opdiner about 1 month ago
This post is hidden because you reported it for abuse. Show this postLolH
Produced For
This makes sense. They were recorded at the BBC studios as I understand, FOR the show.
However, the RSG says:
Produced For - Indicated on the release by these words.
which is a barrier.
https://i.discogs.com/Kf4NeOVf24Bgv7-LXuirIM049HAT7wvvSDskePBAJA4/rs:fit/g:sm/q:90/h:481/w:600/czM6Ly9kaXNjb2dz/LWRhdGFiYXNlLWlt/YWdlcy9SLTUyMDQ2/Mi0xNjg5NTI0Mjg2/LTU5NjguanBlZw.jpeg for example says Made For. Close enough?
https://i.discogs.com/V20CmZd58rscg0J42vLwmUqeC-GqXoSQ4aDtEfnQ6H0/rs:fit/g:sm/q:90/h:589/w:600/czM6Ly9kaXNjb2dz/LWRhdGFiYXNlLWlt/YWdlcy9SLTE1ODM0/NTA3LTE1OTg3MDcz/MTAtNTUyNC5qcGVn.jpeg Recorded For
https://www.discogs.com/release/14391015-Aphex-Twin-Peel-Session-2-TX-100495 no credit on release
https://www.discogs.com/release/386331-The-White-Stripes-I-Just-Dont-Know-What-To-Do-With-Myself recorded for -
Silvermo about 1 month ago
This post is hidden because you reported it for abuse. Show this postI think this have been under discussion before (don’t know what the consensus in that tread was if one was reached). So maybe search up the old tread and see? -
LolH about 1 month ago
This post is hidden because you reported it for abuse. Show this postThread 1 + Thread 2
Concensus seems to be that Recorded At is incorrect, albeit only a few contributors. Produced For does appear on some releases, so can obviously be used there. Notes seem to be a popular choice, due to the lack of a suitable alternative LCCN entry, but the threads seem to fizzle out and no firm decision/conclusion reached as regards the use of The John Peel Show. -
sydfloyd about 1 month ago
This post is hidden because you reported it for abuse. Show this postSome of them aren't even for the John Peel Show, they're for Top Gear or Peel's Sunday Concert. -
EvanC015 about 1 month ago
This post is hidden because you reported it for abuse. Show this postThere should be a "Recorded For" lccn descriptor added. I can think of many examples of this being suitable for other Radio session releases. -
MJG196 about 1 month ago
This post is hidden because you reported it for abuse. Show this postI think the standard "generic" LCCN credit - Record Company - could be used, but most users probably wouldn't understand that, and we'd perpetually be fixing it.
Produced For...or the forever-requested Produced By...would be fine. -
LolH about 1 month ago
This post is hidden because you reported it for abuse. Show this post -
LolH about 1 month ago
This post is hidden because you reported it for abuse. Show this postMJG196
Produced For...or the forever-requested Produced By...would be fine.
Unfortunately, Produced For is quite specific in its usage description, and this doesn't fit that. Only to be used where the release specifically states "Produced For" -
TopCats45s about 1 month ago
This post is hidden because you reported it for abuse. Show this postDiognes_The_Fox - how hard would it be for you to add Recorded For to the LCCN? -
sebfact about 1 month ago
This post is hidden because you reported it for abuse. Show this post"Recorded For" is neither Recorded By nor Recorded At. Also not Produced For/At, or whatever else people are trying to invent.
As long as there is no "Recorded For" LCCN credit, this is Notes only.
Produced For only when stated as such on the releases.
Opdiner
Recordings ... made for = Recorded For or Made For. Both no LCCN credits. Notes only.
Close enough? -
Danthewhippet about 1 month ago
This post is hidden because you reported it for abuse. Show this postI'm a +1 for notes if the wording on the release doesn't fit with existing LCCN fields.
I'm not surprised that EvanC015 name has come up, my experience is they appear to have a cavalier attitude towards formats, LCCN, editing in general. They were recently tagged in another thread regarding their behaviour and edits but so far have declined to engage. -
cellularsmoke about 1 month ago
This post is hidden because you reported it for abuse. Show this postWithout a proper credit to use, I feel like shoehorning it into some other credit doesn't do the database justice. But we'd lose the ability to link the releases to the show. Another not great option is to make 'Record For' an acceptable use for Series. -
andygrayrecords about 1 month ago
This post is hidden because you reported it for abuse. Show this postNotes for me. -
andrenafulva about 1 month ago
This post is hidden because you reported it for abuse. Show this postLolH, here's a previous thread that covered this ground: https://www.discogs.com/forum/thread/812647 -
mtausig about 1 month ago
This post is hidden because you reported it for abuse. Show this postWithout digging through the previous threads, it’s DEFINITELY a ‘notes’ vote for me, especially since that is the only current way to stay within the boundaries of the RSG.
That said, I believe it is long overdue to have a ‘Recorded For’ entry in the LCCN. It has come up a few times over the years, and I don’t recall what the reasoning for NOT having it was, other than there were some limitations in the LCCN. I voted as a ‘Yes’ for adding it to the LCCN back then and I would vote ‘Yes’ again if given the opportunity. -
rdvriese about 1 month ago
This post is hidden because you reported it for abuse. Show this postTopCats45s
how hard would it be for you to add Recorded For to the LCCN?
Quite hard, apparently: https://www.discogs.com/forum/thread/976336 -
LolH about 1 month ago
This post is hidden because you reported it for abuse. Show this post LolH edited about 1 month agoThanks for everyone's input here. If I am reading things correctly, we have the following opinions across the 2 threads
Recorded For The John Peel Show should be Release Notes fodder only
mtausig, andygrayrecords, Danthewhippet, sebfact, andrenafulva, cheebacheebakid, mr.dna, anagrama, JamesArthurSturgess, avalon67, kjmacphee
Record Company / Produced For
MJG196, Opdiner (though noting the blocker), westpier
Recorded By
avalon67 (in the previous thread)
No particular preference specified
cellularsmoke, @EcanC015
So, it looks like Notes is the place for this, except where the specific LCCN options can be used for Produced For, Recorded At etc.
Unless there are any other comments or options, I shall make a start on this tomorrow, after I've updated the instructions on the Label Profile Page.
Edit
Sorry, should clarify that edits will be as per option 1, moving credits to Notes (unless criteria for LCCN entries are met as per guidelines) -
mr.dna about 1 month ago
This post is hidden because you reported it for abuse. Show this postSounds good. Thanks, LolH. -
andrenafulva about 1 month ago
This post is hidden because you reported it for abuse. Show this postThanks. I'm going to be very busy over the next week, so I'm afraid I won't be able to help. -
avalon67 about 1 month ago
This post is hidden because you reported it for abuse. Show this postMight be an idea to get DtF opinion before making edits, when many users want to keep it linked, which was nik’s POV when there wasn’t an exact role.
After all, isn’t that what Record Company is for? -
LolH about 1 month ago
This post is hidden because you reported it for abuse. Show this postavalon67
Might be an idea to get DtF opinion before making edits, when many users want to keep it linked, which was nik’s POV when there wasn’t an exact role.
After all, isn’t that what Record Company is for?
Diognes_The_Fox care to offer an opinion? -
Opdiner about 1 month ago
This post is hidden because you reported it for abuse. Show this postavalon67
when many users want to keep it linked,
I agree. It’s a shame to lose such an important radio show to the notes. A backward step for the database IMO. -
cellularsmoke about 1 month ago
This post is hidden because you reported it for abuse. Show this postI think I need to lean in a direction here; We need a Role where the profile stays linked and Active.
I would use Record Company, or Recorded At in that order of perference. -
LolH about 1 month ago
This post is hidden because you reported it for abuse. Show this postOpdiner
It’s a shame to lose such an important radio show to the notes. A backward step for the database IMO.
Agreed.
Personally I think that we should be allowed to use Produced For, as that is literally what is going on here. But I realise that will open up a whole can of worms. -
avalon67 about 1 month ago
This post is hidden because you reported it for abuse. Show this postrdvriese
Quite hard, apparently: https://www.discogs.com/forum/thread/976336
It was claimed at the time that DtF could add some new LCCN fields, but as you've pointed out, nothing seemed to happen.
I still believe that Recorded By is an alternative, but my reading of the intent behind the guideline may be different to others.
'The John Peel Show' would book bands and studio time and have thess sessions recorded for broadcast by themselves.
There are just short of 100 entries under that 'Company name', and they had a major part to play in music when John Peel was active.
The text on one of the only Peel Sessions I own reads
This is one of a series of original recordings made for The John Peel Show on Radio One...
Pretty similar to 'Original Recording made by Columbia Records'......
So, IMO, we should record their legacy
And without the blabber...
Recorded By or Record Company -
LolH about 1 month ago
This post is hidden because you reported it for abuse. Show this postavalon67
So, IMO, we should record their legacy
I'm all for that. Anything, within reason, that keeps them all in one place can only be a good thing.
No response from Management to my request for input, so not looking like we will have any guidance there.
I hadn't really considered the Recorded By option until now, but that works. As I say, anything to group them. I don't really like Record Company, but it works and I suppose can technically just be used in any case under the 'catch all not covered by any other option' banner. -
rdvriese about 1 month ago
This post is hidden because you reported it for abuse. Show this postavalon67
So, IMO, we should record their legacy
I'm more and more of the opinion we shouldn't be too bothered by exact credit roles in LCCN. The system's not perfect, very limited actually, let's make the best of it. We already use Mastered At as substitution for Plated At.
And if Recorded For can be Recorded By, why couldn't Produced By not become Produced For? Or if it's the preposition that matters, why couldn't recording be part of the production process?
Since the LCCN pages are poorly designed too, everything's thrown together in the end anyway. The roles or prepositions don't really matter.
As long as the correct entities are linked and the explanation is in the notes, it should work. -
Opdiner about 1 month ago
This post is hidden because you reported it for abuse. Show this postrdvriese
As long as the correct entities are linked and the explanation is in the notes, it should work.
Agree, I'm good with Recorded By. The JPS commissioned these so technically it's correct. Hell, that credit has already evolved from mobile studios to the originating record company so this is a minor extension. -
anagrama about 1 month ago
This post is hidden because you reported it for abuse. Show this postFor those advocating to record it in LCCN - is this unique to the John Peel Show, or would the precedent stand for every radio show that has broadcast an in-studio session?
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