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The "Murder" of Ruth Price: A Lengthy Debunking

Debunked

For decades this infamous 911 recording has made the rounds, I don't know if I'm the first, but I think I've figured out exactly what happened, but before I get to that.

Summary

So I'm pretty sure this case is well known among a lot of true crime enthusiasts, and it's been covered to death by Youtubers. Here's an article covering the case, but I'll also do my best to quickly sum it up for those who are unfamiliar:

In the 1980s, an old woman by the name of Ruth Price, living alone, contacts 911 because of a man prowling around outside her home, she fears for her life. The 911 operator interrupts Ruth before she is able to give her address. In less than two minutes, the man seemingly breaks in, and brutally assaults and murders the elderly lady, her final blood curdling screams caught on tape. With her address unknown, help is not able to arrive.

Since then this audio has bounced around, with people trying and failing to find a record of such an incident, some think it's complete fiction, others think it might only be based on a real call, or that it's real, and that one of two Ruth Prices, one dying in 1988, another in 1994, could be the potential victim.

Here is a recording of the phone call, WARNING this call is pretty disturbing, and there's loud screaming starting at 35 seconds in, so if you're at all sensitive to that, either skip the video, or pause BEFORE that point.

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So the constant question about this call is "Was it real, or was it fake?", however, I think that there's an angle that hasn't really been considered for some reason: This phone call is real, BUT the story that has been retold over and over again, is completely fake.

Buckle up, grab a drink, because this is going to be a long post, but I'm hoping to get some good discussion to see if others agree to this being the most likely solution to this decades long mystery.

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TL;DR:

  • The call is real, not a re-enactment, not a fake training example (comment explaining why I doubt that the call is fictional or a re-enactment)

  • HOWEVER Ruth Price definitely didn't die during nor directly after the call, and likely didn't come to any harm at all

  • What we're actually hearing is Ruth panicking over an attempted break-in, not her brutal demise

  • The story was invented by 911 instructors during the 1990s to make the tape more shocking and memorable

  • This occurred in San Diego, California sometime between 1986 and 1992

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HERE'S WHAT I THINK HAPPENED:

  • Ruth Price was speaking with a phone operator, when an attempted break and enter happened, she started screaming while the man was trying to break down her door, or enter through a window.

  • Ruth possibly runs away to hide or to make an attempt to get out of the house and seek a neighbour for help - alternatively, her screaming scares the man off then and there, and she runs to shut the window or check what he's doing.

  • The man was likely just attempting a burglary - not out to murder an old woman. Alternatively Ruth states early in the call that the man had come by earlier, "looking for a guy" perhaps this was a dealer looking for a customer who owed him money or an addict looking for a dealer or to score some drugs? Who knows, either situation seems more plausible than a random murderer stalking an old lady.

  • Ruth was not murdered, nor was she harmed at all, she survived the brief ordeal, and passed away in 1994.

  • However, her blood curdling, screaming panic made this the perfect tape to shock trainees for 911 call taking, and so was born the legend of an old woman brutally murdered while on the phone with 911*.

  • I firmly believe we don't have the full call recording, and that the tape was cut by whomever first used it for training purposes, there's more to it that we'll never get to hear

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Guesses, and Assumptions about the Call:

  • It's very probable that Ruth called a phone operator, NOT a 911 call taker, probably out of habit; San Diego had only introduced 911 in 1982, Ruth had lived most of her life needing to dial '0' for an operator to connect with emergency services; this call happened at most, a decade after that. This might explain why the woman seems disinterested, and isn't "following the right procedure", and even why she doesn't talk while Ruth is screaming - she's frantically trying to get the police or emergency services in on the call to take over.

  • At the start of the call, she's just trying to pass Ruth off to the police department with some details to know what to say to them. Later, when Ruth is screaming, she's already trying to get the police on the line - at 0:42 of the video, you can hear "Operator!?" in the middle of the screams. I believe this is when the operator had patched in a call taker from 911 or the police department. That voice possibly sounds like another woman on the line, addressing the operator, or the (phone) operator talking to the 911 operator, it certainly doesn't sound like Ruth.

  • There's nothing in the audio suggesting a struggle to me, that Ruth is being strangled or stabbed, there's no man's voice nor any grunting/breathing from the supposed assailant. Ruth's voice never really gets much further away than would be reasonable for a corded receiver.

  • The line "somebody help me to breathe" keeps showing up in transcripts. I think this is a misinterpretation of her pleading to the operator, and is more likely something like "somebody help me please!" "he's getting in, help please!" "(unintelligible, possibly "can you") send the police!". Ruth sounds like a natural, life-long English speaker, her saying "somebody help me to breathe" just doesn't make sense, and moreover, it just doesn't sound like she's being strangled either.

  • My guess is that the deep "thud" we hear is Ruth dropping the receiver, and it hitting a table, wall or the floor, you can still hear Ruth briefly in the recording before it ends, making a sobbing sound, this clearly wasn't a killing blow.

  • There are NO stories nor records about this supposed brutal murder of an elderly woman simply because there wasn't one. Not because this was "before the internet", if there was such a slaying - in the same decade that saw Richard Ramirez do similar, who had only been caught in 1985 - it would have the media, especially in California, all over a "Nightstalker Copycat?" headline.

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Facts Backing Up the Location, Time Frame and Who Ruth is:

The key to all of this is that Ruth begins to provide an address, "thirty-eight seventy-seven" - you can hear that in this uncensored version of the call from ScareTheater's video, if you want to confirm for yourself - and during the call, she mentions her house having an apartment at the rear. There was a Reddit thread two years ago, that had found a "3877 35th Street", in San Diego, California. From what I could see in Google Maps, the house shares a yard with a small, two story house to its rear, with its main entrance appearing to be facing that same yard, also, the address in Google Maps lists "#3879" in the full street address, suggesting the house to the rear is considered a part of the same property. Former resident of that property? One Ruth Price.

I mentioned "between 1986 and 1992", and here's why: first, the house at 3877 35th Street had last been sold in 1986, according to this listing.

According to this record, Ruth Price moved to that address in February 1986, and then later moved in August 1992 to an address in El Cajon, California. This location matches the information given in this obituary which states it as her last address.

The obituary and record back up the basic things we know about Ruth from the call, she was an old lady - born in December 1913 - making her somewhere between the ages of 73-78 depending on the year this took place, and indeed her home at the time has an apartment at the rear. The fact that her obituary reports her as living in El Cajon, instead of San Diego, lining up with the other record reporting a move to an address in El Cajon in 1992 tells me that Ruth Price survived whatever happened that night at 3877 35th Street, and that this call couldn't have taken place after August of that year, since she no longer lived at the address she began to give.

Unfortunately the records do have some discrepancies, they state that 3877 is her address up to the present day (and then lists the same address as a second entry, up to last year), and give yet another address in El Cajon dated 1998, despite saying clearly she was deceased as of May 1994. I can't explain the duplicate addresses, nor the second El Cajon address in 1998, but my assumption is that the house at 3877 stayed within the family, or that it's possibly owned by a landlord? Something to that effect.

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So to sum it all up - Ruth Mildred Price, of San Diego, CA had an attempted break-in at her home sometime between 1986 and 1992. Her screams were so fearful and shocking that the tape of the interaction she had with a telephone operator was later used unofficially by trainers with 911 call-takers - who spread a sensationalized story that the operator's mistake cost Ruth her life. However, the break-in was either a failed attempt, or Ruth didn't come to harm during it, and she lived on until 1994.

I'm almost dead certain that this is what happened, the last and only possible way to maybe know for sure, is if there was some way to get a record of any police reports filed regarding 3877 35th Street, between 1986 and 1992. Assuming a) that Ruth had made a police report about the incident, and b) that the reports still exist, and are accessible over 30 years later.

I know this is a tired, ancient mystery, I doubt I'm the first person to come to this conclusion, but after watching a video from Barely Sociable on the call (not the first I've watched either), something possessed me to do some investigation of my own to try and back up my conclusion. I figure this sub would appreciate the post, hopefully it was interesting? Tell me if I missed anything.

Edit (9/11/21): I don't know if this is customary, I don't make many posts, but thank you for all the awards/upvotes, and by far most importantly, for the interesting discussions about this mystery we've had so far.

Final Edit (25/4/22)

This mystery is officially solved!

This post wasn't far off - correct address, correct Ruth Price, and she scared off her attacker and survived the still unknown assailant - however, the incident in question occurred on November 3rd 1980, not between 1986 - 1992.

Farvaluable_5819 here on Reddit was able to solve this once and for all (link to their thread).

Since this post somehow still gets posts every once in a while (I've gotten two in the past month!), I felt I'd add this update and credit the person that finally figured this out for real.

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Regarding the address discrepancy, online public records often contain similiar errors. My husbands parents are often listed as living at our address, or our previous address, even though they have never lived with us and have always maintained a separate home, even at times halfway across the country. This could be a similiar situation.

Exactly. My dad, who has been dead for years, occasionally gets mail at my house, which we moved into well after his death.

Public records get screwed up all the time and the wrong information just filters through the system, but never really gets corrected.

u/Pokemonprime avatar

My house in Florida still occasionally gets mail addressed to my grandfather.

Who died in 1999.

In Maryland.

Who the hell is sending your grandfather mail??

u/Pokemonprime avatar

Funnily enough, I think it was life insurance adverts.

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u/Th3Trashkin avatar

Interestingly, I just found the same discrepancy even goes across multiple records, another site claims Ruth Price is 107 and living at two separate addresses.

That Ruth Price is really something.

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u/CopperPegasus avatar

Just to add that I was the director of a small company for a while. The previous owner lived at Address X. I live at Address Y, and the business was always at Address Z. I never, ever, owned, rented, or lived at Address X, nor was the company I took over- my only connection at all to the previous owner- ever listed there.

I've tried 4 times, and eventually given up on trying to get corrected, my credit report with 2 of the big 4 credit bureaus here in South Africa. Both of which confidently list that I lived at- and one still says currently lives at- Address X.

I don't even know HOW they began that process of deciding Address X was ever associated with me. As I say, the company, a PTY LTD ( I think the equivalent of an LLC for US guys) never even shared an address with the previous owner, let alone me. Nor why they won't correct it, especially given they literally report on 2 house-based insurance policies with Address Y and my one and only municipal account at Address Y, used to see my telephone line at Address Y, and our banks are obligated to regularly report on domicile etc through our FICA act, which has now been redone twice for me in the time since I owned the company, clearly showing my legal address is Address Y.

Public records are not as reliable as we want to think.

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Lol they have my grandpa who died when my dad was a teenager in 1975 still listed at their address at the time.

Can confirm. I semi-frequently search those records for myself to see if my current address is visible, and it usually lists several of my previous addresses with completely wrong dates.

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covered to death by YouTubers

Well, just wait until they mine your post for the SOLVED - RUTH PRICE series of videos

u/Th3Trashkin avatar

Eh, my post already covers most of the details that those YouTubers always bring up, I just went looking for the sources to confirm that information, and came to a conclusion. If someone else came to the same conclusion I wouldn't be surprised.

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Really great write up OP.

I used to be a 911 operator, and I remember one of the calls we listed to during training academy was a little girl - like 5 years old IIRC - very articulately explaining to the call taker that she had discovered her parents shot to death in their bedroom. Training academy instructor told us that the murder was a totally random act, but a few of us googled the case that night and found out it hadn’t been random, they had been killed by someone known to them and the motive had to do with something illegal - I think drugs.

The next day we told our instructor and he was legitimately shocked. I don’t know where he heard that it was a random act, but he was a really respectable dude and I don’t think he would have said that unless he heard it from a trusted source.

All that being said, the theory presented in the write up is solid. I could totally believe that one person decided that would make a great training call, embellished the details, and from there it became repeated as fact by any number of instructors.

u/Th3Trashkin avatar

The write up might have made it sound like the story was maliciously or intentionally spread, but it's probably similar to what you're saying. Maybe the initial person that used the tape was aware of the actual circumstances (especially if the tape is cut, which I think it is), but the story was spread over the years by people who were unaware that they weren't told the truth or they were only given a "guess" at what happened, and it became a game of telephone between instructors and trainees where the details became more gruesome over time.

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u/Th3Trashkin avatar
Edited

Side Notes

  1. The picture frequently used as "Ruth" with this case has nothing to do with it, the woman in that photo died in 2015, long after this call first appeared on the Internet - which was first uploaded in 1999-2000

  2. There are forum posts stating "facts" that this happened in one year or another, one forum post that is brought up frequently mentions the murder occurring in 1988. This 1988 date usually ends up connected to a "Findagrave" listing for a Ruth Price... but this woman lived in Missouri and died in hospital according to the page, there's no evidence besides her name linking her to this call, and the date is only based off of what someone claims they were told by an instructor

Did this Ruth Price die in 1988? That could be the source for the date: someone confused the woman who died in 1988 of natural causes with the woman who made a frantic 911 call within a few years of 1988 (and possibly in 1988; one would need police records to know).

u/Th3Trashkin avatar

I think people just saw a similar name and presumably a similar time frame and thought it had to be the woman. I don't think it was confusion, but trying to find any matching evidence out there that would confirm the story.

Here's the findagrave listing for the Ruth Price who died in 1988

There's a scan of an obituary mentioning that she died from an illness while in hospital

You really have your info straight. I like that.

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Thanks a lot for your hard work compiling all this information, i was discussing this case a few months back on this sub.

However, i don't really get the title. You didn't debunk anything you just presented a solid but still inconclusive theory, i had saw all of the information you provided here on Reddit already just not in the one location. You make as many assumptions as any of the other theories do and you weren't able to conclusively rule out anything.

u/Th3Trashkin avatar
Edited

"Debunking" might not have been the best or most accurate term, but I guess my meaning was that this is an alternative narrative challenging the idea that Ruth Price was murdered, and providing evidence against the murder story and for my alternative interpretation.

The credit for the hard work should go to the users in the previous Reddit thread, and content creators like Scare Theater and Barely Sociable who have covered this call before. I just looked into the sources they mention for myself, made sure they correlated and made sure my theory was backed up.

Don't worry, most of us didn't think twice about the usage of the word.

Sorry if I derailed the post a little by arguing!

u/Th3Trashkin avatar

No need to apologize! I'm glad this post is provoking so much discussion!

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The word debunk can mean criticizing a theory and giving your reasons for that criticism. It does not necessarily mean to "prove" conclusively.

The softest definition i've seen is - "expose the falseness or hollowness of (an idea or belief)."

Can you link the dictionary with this definition "criticizing a theory and giving your reasons for that criticism".

That is not an exact definition. It is my own understanding of the word. But if you really need a link, here ya go:

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/debunking

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u/HovercraftNo1137 avatar

There was a Reddit thread two years ago, that had found a "3877 35th Street", in San Diego, California

That thread also said:

Sorry I know I'm behind here... I found an obituary of Ruth M Price who was born 1913 and died in May of 1994 in San Diego, but it said it was after a long illness. Wonder if it wasn't a murder but just an assault? u/athena42099

Did you find any details of the obituary?

https://www.reddit.com/r/UnresolvedMysteries/comments/db65nl/who_was_ruth_and_was_she_real/f7y0udl/

Gosh I’m trying to find it, although I’m not having luck now. I do remember what I had found literally had just that- no information about next of kin, etc.

I do agree with OPs theory that she didn’t die, however I’m not sure she wasn’t injured in any way. I do think her sounds on the line sound like a struggle. I will say I looked at the address on Google maps and the homes are really really close together, so I could see how someone breaking in might have been spooked by the screaming (although I’m not sure if that’s what it looked like in 1988).

News stories weren’t getting recorded online in 1988. Major ones (like murders) might be available online today but an assault might not be, especially in a large city like San Diego. There are simply tons of cases and stories that aren’t accessible via a Google search so I’m not certain we can rely on that to solidify she wasn’t injured.

u/Th3Trashkin avatar

The reasoning for why I assume she wasn't harmed, is that there's not really any grounds for the assumption.

The most subjective reason is that personally, I don't hear a struggle, I do hear some banging, but nothing that sounds like someone attacking someone else, but the lack of hearing the assailant enter, or the assailant himself, is what really seals it for me. Additionally, the story Ruth gives, while vague, gives me reason to believe that this was either someone trying to break in under the assumption someone else lived at the address, or that they were casing the home, thinking they could burglarize it later, not expecting Ruth to be at home, or awake (assuming this is at night, something we actually don't know).

While there are definitely cases where someone has broken in and randomly assaulted or murdered a completely stranger, that's exceptionally rare. Like I mentioned, given the similarity between the supposed story around this call, and that of the then-fairly recent, fairly local case (assuming this is in San Diego) of Richard Ramierez, who had a similar MO - he had murdered multiple elderly women after breaking into their homes - that a random break in and assault of an elderly woman not being recorded by the news, especially if this was in California, highly unlikely.

Ruth having a panic attack during an attempted break-in, and the would-be burglar running off to avoid the authorities he assumed were inbound, explains the lack of reporting. A brief attempted break-in is not news, and records of it, if there was a police report filed, are likely gathering dust deep within an archive.

Yeah that totally makes sense… the noises really are too vague (and clearly cut off) to truly be certain of what happened next. What is absolutely certain is that Ruth was completely terrified out of her mind. Even if if there wasn’t a physical assault, I can’t even imagine what kind of long term trauma that left on that poor woman, especially being elderly. I can’t help but wonder if it could’ve even been a trigger/contributing factor to her passing.

This case has haunted me in ways nothing else I’ve ever found has, I was obsessed with a bit with finding the story of this, and never got a resolute answer. I don’t think we’ll ever know for sure but I’m thankful for everyone out there whose helped clarify this story. At the very least, I think the outcome wasn’t quite as bad as the original story, at least?

u/HovercraftNo1137 avatar

Thanks for following up. The leading theory after a bunch of people from 4chan investigated this was, the transcript is from a real call, but this recording was acted out and made for training. They apparently contacted multiple training agencies and got the same answer. Using a real call for training apparently had too many legal problems. This can explain why background noises are vague and stuff.

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Very thorough post. This audio clip has haunted me for years.

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u/Th3Trashkin avatar

I did a quick search on the off chance there were any pre-Google Maps photos of the street or house, but had no luck. If it's worth anything, every listing for the house online says that it was "renovated" (potentially constructed) in 1930. And the surroundings are more or less the same at least as far back as 2007.

2 daughters Barbara gray and Patricia mashburn

Wait whoa where’d you find that??

Find a grave

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u/Th3Trashkin avatar

I figured that the mention of a lengthy illness was fairly unimportant, but if I were to guess, Ruth's disease was either not apparent on the call, or more likely, the disease developed sometime later. Potentially, her worsening symptoms prompted the move in 1992. I believe there's an obituary saying she died of Alzheimer's, but I'd have to go looking to see where I saw that claim, and if I can find a record to substantiate it.

u/CopperPegasus avatar

A 'long illness' can be as short as a few months in obituary language.

It's meant to be seen as vs an acute event in hospital. So something like dementia, but also stuff like COPD, cancer, perhaps long-term diabetes complications, or even a lengthy bout of pneumonia or treatment resistant disease and so on. As opposed to the 'quick' illnesses of things like an aneurysm, a quick cancer decline over a few weeks, heart attack, or flu.

Just FYI.

I saw an obituary cite a "long illness" for a woman who was a friend of a friend. She died of bowel cancer a week after being diagnosed, and was asymptomatic for all but her last 3 or 4 days. The cancer was picked up during a routine screening and very advanced when it was found. Long illness is incredibly subjective in obituary terms - if I was writing that person's I'd have written it as a short illness, which is something I've seen in other obituaries. But it could also be justified as being written as a sudden death, because it was really the cancer equivalent of an out of the blue heart attack.

u/CopperPegasus avatar

Yeah, it's definitely not something that actually has a fixed metric.

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2 daughters Barbara gray and Patricia mashburn

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Nicely done. I’ve always been of the camp that the call is real but the circumstances around it are a lie and I’ve never been 100% on that last line because it seems like such a west statement if you’re having trouble breathing. There are just easier ways to ask for help in that situation.

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Saying “someone please help me to breathe,” is just not something someone who’s been speaking English their whole life would say, even if they were being killed. If you’re being choked you’d say “he’s choking me.” If there’s some other reason you’re breathing has been impeded, you’d say something else. But the line as written never spoke true to me, either.

Saying “someone please help me to breathe,” is just not something someone who’s been speaking English their whole life would say, even if they were being killed.

Especially if you were being killed.

It IS the kind of thing you might sing in a pop song. But it's not a natural phrase.

I was always confused by that part of the transcript because it never sounded like "to breathe" at the end to me. I always heard a clear and desperate "please" that was held out.

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I’ve always wondered why no one ever considered that she didn’t die in the events of the phone call and therefore it’s totally possible that she’s the Ruth Price who died of an illness years later. Screaming doesn’t = dead.

I see absolutely nothing wrong with your analysis. 100% accurate.

u/Th3Trashkin avatar

Thank you very much! I've spent the better part of two hours doing research and writing this out. I'm noticing typos here and there, but hopefully that didn't drag it down too much.

I really love these forensic investigations--the ones that come up with a final, irrefutable conclusion (the Kendrick Johnson one is another example).

I wish there were more of them.

u/Th3Trashkin avatar

And I'm a big fan of debunk investigation type threads, I've already been looking through this sub, bookmarking a few for later reading lol.

u/Th3Trashkin avatar

The lack of conclusiveness about this story for so long, with such disturbing audio, is what really made this something I wanted to look into. I'm surprised no video - as far as I know has come to the conclusion that all the "mythology" about the call is what's fake.

I doubt a Reddit thread will do it, but maybe, just maybe this will finally put the story to rest, and people can take solace that this poor woman wasn't murdered.

u/Denniosmoore avatar

a final, irrefutable conclusion

If I'm ever falsely accused of a crime, I'm praying you're not on the jury.

I don't think this and the Kendrick Johnson one are comparable as the KJ one is full of facts, i think the ideas here are very reasonable but it's full of supposition.

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u/Uhhlaneuh avatar

You are amazing. Thank you for this

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Comment deleted by user

"I see" is different than "I know".

Christ!

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Edited

Only one minor nitpick about a telephone operator rather than a 911: I worked for ten years as a telephone operator, until around 1979, and we would absolutely not have asked the caller anything like, "Where is he at?" If we took a call that was an apparent emergency the only thing we would ask was which agency they needed, law enforcement, fire department, or ambulance. We would not have asked her for details -- we would have immediately started connecting to the right agency, even while the caller continued talking, no matter what we heard. We would only have asked questions if it was unclear which agency had jurisdiction, e.g., city police versus county sheriff. That lets me know that the woman responding to the caller was almost certainly not a telephone operator. The Bell companies were fanatic about procedures and scripts, especially for emergency calls.

On a different note, researching police records would be really interesting. I wonder how long those are kept?

u/Th3Trashkin avatar

I don't disagree, though it could come down to just the individual at the time, or the procedure or that the operator was unsure what service Ruth needed - I think we don't have the beginning of the call to say how the conversation began.

I'm not sure how long records are kept, but from what I've heard in various media covering true crime, a large amount of records from the 20th century, unless they're about something major, have gone uncomputerized.

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I definitely think this is more plausible than the call being fake. That screaming is just…not something I think could be faked by an average person (maybe an actor though?) But even if she wasn’t murdered, like you speculate, if she saw the prowler ramming into her door or picking the lock or something, or even just looking at her through the window, I could imagine her panicking and screaming like that. Panic attacks are real and often dramatic, at least in my experience.

u/Persimmonpluot avatar

This was how I felt about it. It was too real to be a training tape or fake.

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One time when I was a teenager, I was riding somewhere at night with my parents and little brother in the car. I was listening to Nick Cave’s Murder Ballads album with headphones, and during a really creepy song (I think it was Song of Joy?) I turned my head after being zoned out and my brother had gotten really close to my face, grinning, to mess with me.

I screamed so loud my dad almost veered off the road and then thought I was horribly injured.

I just say all that to say sometimes people can let out some gnarly screams from sheer surprise or panic, not necessarily pain.

I agree with the principle. It’s hard for me to personally relate—I’ve been in life-or-death situations, and I choke. But whenever someone else is hurt or in danger, I scream like a banshee. I know she was likely alone, but…

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Fantastic write-up. I definitely think this could possibly be the answer. Her help to breathe comment reminds me of something someone would say while in a panic and/or being terrified. Just a remark in the heat of the moment and not an actual request for help breathing. I actually lived in El Cajon at the time, but I was very young. I'm curious if there was ever anything in the papers or news there about this. I've always found it odd that there's no sound of another person on the line. You'd think if there was such a brutal attack that you'd at least hear heavy breathing or something coming from an attacker.

u/Th3Trashkin avatar

That lack of another person on the line is what REALLY had me skeptical, the story I'd heard for years, that disturbed me since first hearing it, fell apart when I started listening and relistening to the audio, and not hearing anything that sounds like a door being broken down, a window breaking, foot steps, or obviously, no man speaking or making any vocalizations.

The alternative is that this man just quietly waltzed into her house, or found a wide open window, climbed in, and silently crept up on this old woman, before wordlessly, soundlessly, doing... something... to her, that had her screaming, but also allowed her to hold the phone receiver to her mouth for several seconds before dropping or throwing it aside.

Exactly. The audio is definitely disturbing and creepy, but just doesn't make sense.

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Spot on. When I’ve done similar type training, in a different context, the trainer has used real cases and they were well-sourced. That is to say, we were given the details as Child X or an invented name, and then later told this study was derived from a real instance of abuse, and this is what the outcome was, with supporting documentation. I would find it unethical for a trainer to use part of a real case, and leave the trainees with the impression that something had occurred which was not in fact true. Smacks of manipulation.

u/peppermint-kiss avatar

Out of curiosity, do you know of any books/videos/sources that cover these kinds of cases? I'd be interested to know about best practices, interesting case studies, etc.

This is an infamous example of a badly handled 911 call:

https://www.cnn.com/2012/04/19/justice/washington-powell-case/index.html

The 911 responder felt so badly about it that he's devoted his life to teaching emergency personnel how not to do what he did.

A recording of the call itself is widely available online. And also extremely hard to listen to, once you know what happened to the people involved.

https://www.cnn.com/2012/04/19/justice/washington-powell-case/index.html

there's this one as well. 16 y/o boy was suffocating in his minivan. if i remember right, he went to grab some sports equipment or something and a seat got triggered somehow and pinned him under it in a way that he couldn't breathe.

WARNING: very devastating 911 call of a boy dying and begging for help. this one kills me. listened to it once and never will again.

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u/ShapeWords avatar

Yeah, I think it was over the minute he was able to drag the kids with him into the house. Obviously, that doesn't excuse the mistakes made by the 911 operator, but there was probably not ever a good outcome possible. Realistically, the police aren't going to immediately kick in the door and gun him down the second they arrive. All that does is put the cops and possible other emergency responders in range for the blast.

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It's difficult to listen to even if you don't know the full context of that call. That guy was horrible. I've heard the names Susan and Josh Powell before, but I wasn't familiar with the details of the case and I've never heard this call before now. I'm glad that he learned a lesson from this and I don't think the outcome would have been different if he hadn't been a condescending jackass who clearly didn't give a damn, but jeez.

Oh no doubt. The guy wasn't listening, he was working off a snap assumption that he was dealing with an emotional woman involved in a custody struggle. Despite the social worker being clear and professional in her request for help. A shocking example of how misogyny creates dangerous situations for women and children. And he was factually wrong: Sometimes the custodial parent does supervise visits with the non-custodial parent. But, to the guy's credit, he took responsibility for his many mistakes, and uses himself as a teaching example. And that's not nothing. Though hardly any comfort to the families of the murdered children.

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u/peppermint-kiss avatar

Thank you!

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u/blueuncloudedweather avatar

I know this question is a bit old now, but there's also David Iredale's 000 call. He was lost in the Blue Mountains and very dehydrated, but every time he called the operators were preoccupied with trying to get him to give them a street address.

u/peppermint-kiss avatar

What an awful case. Thanks for sharing. To be honest, thought, I'm not sure what the operators could have done differently. They should have called search and rescue, I guess - I wonder if that was even an option for them, though?

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Definitely a 100% plausible analysis. I thought it was likely a recreation or other scripted exercise, but “the tape is real, the story is fake” makes even more sense. Thanks for writing this.

u/Th3Trashkin avatar
Edited

When I first heard this years ago, my thought was also that it was fake, but when I saw a more recent video, it occurred to me that there's too much coincidental circumstantial evidence that the woman involved was real, and if she was real based on this information, something isn't adding up about this being the recording of a murder.

The more I think about it, the call wouldn't be great as a manufactured training example, the only mistake made is cutting Ruth off midway through her giving an address, and seeming to not react to the screaming.

The dialogue - Ruth's rambling story offering random details, like her apartment, would distract from the purpose of this example being that the operator didn't ask for an address, the staging would also be nonsensical - you're telling me that they hired two voice actresses do this and they didn't think to add any sound effects or have a third actor play the assailant to add "believability"? Or that they had their "Ruth" scream directly into the microphone, and nobody would catch that she didn't sound like she was being dragged away, beaten or stabbed? And that an organization would spend money on such a short, poorly scripted "play" instead of simply using one of the tens of thousands of recorded calls to emergency services made every year?

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Yeah, people screaming in genuine fear-for-your-life terror have a certain sound to them that is hard to fake. Kind of similar to how most people can't convincingly cry on-demand. Real audio, fake story is extremely plausible.

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I really like your formatting. I wish everything was laid out like this.

Edited

Much of this was already discovered in a previous thread, as another poster and I drilled down to discover she was a real person. I stopped short of calling one of her daughters, as I thought it inappropriate.

https://www.reddit.com/r/UnresolvedMysteries/comments/db65nl/who_was_ruth_and_was_she_real/?utm_source=amp&utm_medium=&utm_content=post_body

u/Th3Trashkin avatar