An educational and informative sub for socialists/communists of Europe to stay informed on and discuss recent developments in the European continent and adjacent areas with regards to socialism and the workers movement. We are first and foremost an anti-imperialist sub that acknowledges that the biggest enemy of the global proletariat is imperialism. Please read the rules before posting and participating in discussion! Link to rules: https://www.reddit.com/r/EuropeanSocialists/about/rules/
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How is this man so based?!
Dude spent 11 years in solitary confinement under Hitler before he was executed. Thälmann takes class struggle to another level.
How dare he be German and not a rootless cosmopolitan globalist like me! - Westoid leftists
What do you mean rootless cosmopolitan mean?
I mean people who pretend to be universal subjects without any roots in a particular country and/or nation. Like 90% of modern leftists in the West.
Thanks for the clarification. Interesting, would you say characterisation as universal subjects is common? I always felt that idpol lead to people feeling the need to differentiate themselves.
Nations are objective things, not artificially created "identities". If you think they're not, go to an African or Asian state and try to tell the locals how there's almost no difference between you.
https://books.google.nl/books?id=gt1DAQAAIAAJ&pg=RA5-PA149&lpg=RA5-PA149&dq=Ernst+Th%C3%A4lmann.+My+people+to+whom+I+belong+are+the+German+people&source=bl&ots=mV2C40XJpe&sig=ACfU3U3lqUsFc1sXLag3Lh3cSZSulU9Dig&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwinq6rG1535AhUtPewKHbNkB_gQ6AF6BAgCEAM#v=onepage&q=Ernst%20Th%C3%A4lmann.%20My%20people%20to%20whom%20I%20belong%20are%20the%20German%20people&f=false
source
Was looking for a source to this quote last night. Nice coincidence
Is there any good resources on him?
Hes a great inspiration
Interesting, but isn’t Marxism about internationalism?
Internationalism and patriotism do not contradict. There is no internationalism without nations in the first place. A man can take pride in his country, and want the best for it, without any chauvinistic nationalism - because he realises that the best way for his nation to thrive is to cooperate and live in harmony with other nations.
This. Internationalism isn't about denying the existence of nations itself. It's all about friendship between nations. About shattering the chains of internal and external oppression.
That's imho very patriotic.
Oh no I certainly agree and follow that patriotism and internationalism don’t contradict. I am quite fond of Ho Chi Minh, and Fidel Castro who employed it. But it’s something about the wording here in the quote that leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
While it’s great how Thalmann wanted to see a socialist and prosperous Germany what about other countries?
Only as in only the proletariat, and not bourgeoisie.
Not his business. For communists in imperialist countries, isolationism is the best anti-imperialist position.
Thälmann was never in charge of Germany.
Any socialist leader needs to primarily secure their own nation. If they prematurely focus on the outside, internal reactionary elements will take advantage, or worse, a coalition forms against them. (Look at Hungarian Peoples Republic, Bavarian Soviet Republic, etc. for reference.) The threat of counter-revolution is very much real.
A man that cannot swim himself shouldn't try to save a drowning person. Sounds harsh, but both will drown otherwise.
The was written by a person in solitary confinement for 10 years and you are here to complain that the wording leaves a bad taste in your mouth?
How about fuck your feels.
You could literally sacrifice yourself for the cause but many decades later some leftists comes along and takes a shit on your grave because your words made them feel uncomfortable.
It wasn’t my intention to denigrate Thalmann, and it’s unfortunate you interpreted it like that. I respect him greatly, I find him a great Marxist but that doesn’t mean he is immune from criticism. I still fundamentally disagree with only caring about the people from your ethnicity / country; Marx said workers of the world unite, not workers of your race unite.
Internationalism doesn’t mean you can’t be a patriot.
One can't have internationalism without nations and as such nationalism.
This quote only talks about Ireland and Poland, who also were oppressed nations. Germany wasn’t an oppressed nation
Eh. They weren't oppressed in the same way as poles or irishmen before their independence, because they still had their own country.
Interwar germans were definetly oppressed though, at the very least in fascist Italy (yes, I consider austrians to be ethnically and culturally german.)
Lets not pretend central europe wasn't a chauvinistic shit-hole in general though.
Indeed, they are divided artificially.
Take this quote to the logical conclusion. Nationalism is the base for internationalism. Besides, Germany wasn't exactly oppressing anyone in the 1920s and early 30s...
Nationalism is the base for internationalism for oppressed nations, the “patriotism” of nations in the west such as the US and UK as we’ve seen was used to further imperialism abroad. Here’s a cool vid on the subject
Telman was beaten for days. The Gestapo men were getting tired. And we decided to make two brigades and take turns to rest. Listen to the sound of Telman's voice from the Gestapo casemates. I quote Telman: "In the Gestapo casemates, I behaved like a communist. I have repulsed all attacks on the Communist Party..." Telman's voice sounded like the voice of God. And Telman is a great leader.