A place to get personal things off your chest. Not for opinions, not for relationship advice, and not for preaching.
To start off everything I’m a widow and have 3 children but in this post I’ll be focused on my two youngest daughters Lia ( F14) & maya ( F18). ( fake names ofcourse)
For little background, Lia was raped by 4 men back in December. How this incident accrued was maya threw a party while I was working the night shift and 4 of the boys that were attendance at this party assaulted Lia. It’s been devastating to say the least, Lia has lost all of her spark and quit cheer. Plus on top of that she opted out of her freshman year by just continuing to do courses online. She doesn’t sleep in her room anymore but with me and just wears my late husband’s hoodies all day and I feel so helpless as a mother because I don’t know how I can help her.
Through out the investigation a lot of things came out regarding maya’s part in this. She did not set up her little sister, however I feel like she severely neglected her and all of this could have been avoided if she just followed my rules. I never approved a party, I left in her charge of watching Lia and before you guys say “well you’re her mother it not her job to watch your kid“ but the thing is, it was her job. I pay her really well to look after her sister while I work nights it’s been an agreement we had for years. Lia is not special needs in anyway, the only thing I asked of maya is that she makes sure her sister does her homework and gets to bed at a reasonable time.
The men that assaulted Lia, maya invited herself she knew them personally and knew they had affiliates to gangs and did not care. Instead what I found out in this investigation she tried to put Lia with one of these boys and Lia was not interested…this boy was harassing Lia all night, trying to get her to kiss him. Then Lia had enough and went to her room…and the moment maya left the house to go to McDonalds..that same boy in his friends went up to my daughter’s room and raped her. The worst part about this to me is that people that were at the party heard her yelling and did not do anything but just assumed a couple was arguing upstairs. We didn’t know what happened, until the next morning when the party was over. Having her do a rape kit was traumatizing for her and probably the worst moment as a parent for me. then couple weeks later she tested positive for a curable STD.
My baby has been so broken ever since…even though they did get those boys and all 4 pleaded guilty because they had evidence on there phone. but It’s still so extremely hard for Lia right now. Maya on the other hand has been remorseful and Lia has no animosity towards her and doesn’t blame her, still loves her sister. But I don’t know why for me I’m so angry at maya and I’ve been really trying to forgive her but I can’t as of now. I can’t even look at her without not wanting to lash out. Her prom is next weekend and I honestly couldn’t care less. She tries to have conversations with me, but it’s hard for me to show any interest in them. I don’t hate my daughter, I still love her. But I just have strong dislike for her right now. I’ve been reading self help books trying to learn how to address this properly. I feel like I can’t open up to anyone about this in life. I guess this maybe cry for help as a mother.
Edit: thank you for all the feedback, the most repetitive question I’m seeing is if maya still watches Lia? The answer is hell no. I don’t trust her anymore and it might take years to get it back. I’m on a leave of absence currently. Also Lia is not therapy as of right now, she expressed to me she’s not ready for that, I think after the sentencing she might be open to it. Maya is also in therapy but skips a lot of appointments and I’m in therapy too and it’s been helping me remain calm throughout this situation and not want to lash out at Maya. But the number 1 advice that I’m seeing in here that I’m strongly considering is sending Maya to my parents house for a while and get some space from her.
Sorry quick Second edit : for the ones asking if Maya is in a gang, to my knowledge she isn’t…the most I have ever caught her doing was smoking some pot and vaping. I also don’t want to think Maya would ever intentionally set up her sister to be brutally assaulted. So I’m leaning towards Maya genuinely was being plain neglectful that night. also I feel like it would have came up in the investigation if she intentionally set up Lia. Also the boy Maya was trying to set Lia up with was 17 at the time…he’s 18 now and the other 3 were grown men.
I’m so sorry this happened! First I’d ask Lia if she wants a different bedroom, even if that means switching rooms with Maya. I can’t imagine she’d ever want to go back to her old room.
Aside from that, therapy for everyone. Individual and family. This is something that’s going to take time and professional help to work through. Therapy will help you with your feelings about and relationship with Maya too. Self help books are not going to cut it. If you can’t afford it, your family has been the victim of a crime and there should be resources available for you to use for free, ask the D.A.’s office or Google Crime Victim Services and your state or city. Best of luck to your family.
I agree, if they sleep in separate bedrooms, Maya should be required to switch with Lia so she can gain a fresh start in a new space with no negative memories attached. Being in the same bedroom would be constantly re-triggering for her and she needs a safe space to heal, poor baby :((
I was going to suggest they start over and move somewhere new and meet all new friends. And then therapy, family and individual. Lia’s clearly changed, and she’s never going to be the same.
Maybe.. empathize with maya. She watched Lia for years and this never happened.
We are not defined by our worst mistakes, and maya needs to know you love her unconditionally.
(Tagging OP-- u/OkSteak551, I hope you read this.)
Pensive_Procreator, you suggest empathizing with Maya... Now, while I think that will be important in order to have a chance at rebuilding this broken bridge in the future, OP needs to first process what she's feeling and focus on helping Lia heal. OP also needs to share exactly what she's feeling (everything in their post) with Maya. An excellent setting for this would be in a family therapy sessionb (probably without Lia, since this is more for the parent-daughter relationship with Maya, and Lia is still early on in her healing process and may not be able to handle what's said).
Maya needs to be made to understand exactly what she did wrong and the damage it caused, such as:
Coercing her (underaged) sister to hook up with a shitty man who was harassing her, for one. That's frightening behavior Maya displayed there, revealing unhealthy views about consent and autonomy. There needs to be a conversation about those topics and why each point is important.
And let's not forget that these were gang affiliates that Maya knowingly invited into their house and pushed her younger sister to hook up with. Again, dangerous behavior displaying a lack of care or empathy for her younger sister. Where was the love and protectiveness one might expect from a sister? Maya needs to explain her thinking.
And then there's Maya subsequently leaving her sister alone with strange men, including the one who'd been harrassing her. Maya shirked her responsibility as a guardian, disregarded her mother's rules, and broke her mother's (and sister's) trust. And, more importantly, she abandoned her sister in an environment which Maya should have recognized as unsafe.
Maya is absolutely at fault here, and she should feel bad, because she instigated and facilitated her sister's rape. She needs to fully understand how she fucked up and how it's affected her sister and mother and their relationships overall so she can experience some of the pain she caused. This conversation I'm suggesting should be done with empathy and come from a place of love in the hopes that, as a result, Maya will truly feel remorse and want to work to repair the damage she's done. I truly think this conversation needs to take place. If all these boxes aren't checked, then if I were in OP's shoes, I doubt I'd be able to let this go or forgive the daughter who ruined my other daughter's life. I foresee OP's resentment festering if they can't have this talk with Maya.
First, I'm sorry this happened to you and your daughter OP. Second, I agree with the above statement, but this is not a conversation I'd have anywhere but in a therapist's office. There is way too much at stake here.
I agree, a very reasoned response.
Nah Maya apparently knew these guys were affiliated with gangs and allowed her minor sister to be sexually harassed at a party she wasn't allowed to have. Maya is 100% at fault for this for leaving those men around her sister.
I'd kick her out tbh.
The only person 100 percent at fault for the rape, was the rapist.
I'm sorry but let's not call being raped "a mistake". Maya is 100% at fault for the rape and needs to know that her actions and stupidity has ruined her 14 year old sister's life.
She’s at fault no question… but let’s not forget that the fault also fully lies with the men that did the raping. Maya did open the door to these degenerates, but they absolutely should be held to account and punished severely. They can absolutely control themselves but chose to commit this heinous unforgivable crime and forever scarred this poor child.
And a new bed.
Absolutely! Maybe even all new furniture, so everything’s new and different.
House. Does she want a different house. Every room in that house is a part of her rape.
Getting a new house simply isn’t that easy for a lot of people. A new room for sure, maybe new decorating, moving stuff around… that’s do-able, but most people can’t just pick up and go.
Agree, if possible, but it sounds like OP is a single mom with two teenagers and that kind of move just isn’t possible for a lot of people.
Wait she threw a party while babysitting AND LEFT? Please tell me you actually enforced some serious punishment there. I'm confused. You say Maya didn't set her up, yet Maya had been trying to get Lia to interact with this boy. And then she left the house.
She's an adult. That's honestly valid grounds for getting kicked out. No wonder she's skipping therapy, there's no consequences to her actions. Act a little remorseful and everything is hunky dory. Still gets prom, still gets all her privileges, little sis gets all the trauma. Has she ever had actual accountability in life?
these are my questions too.. how is maya even allowed to go to prom or do anything? she should be grounded until she moves out. school, therapy, work, home. that's it
How is Maya in a family home where no one notices she is even hanging out with gang members? Something does not add up
I lowkey doubt the real gang members. The courts label anything a gang member even if they not like what y’all think from tv. Of it’s a group of people who know each other and they have nicknames it’s a gang literally.
OP's dodging of these questions is telling. Her edits are more of self reassurances that come off very naive than actual explanations.
I'm really curious as to why no one is asking questions like....
How come Maya's mum doesn't know she's involved with gangs?
How come Maya's mum doesn't seem to spot obvious signs of grooming?
How come Maya's mum doesn't notice that her daughter is probably out late with these men and doing drugs and drinking alcohol and having sex?
I think that maybe..
Maybe..
We don't have the full story here!
It's pretty clear OP is an absent mom. I mean, she's cold shouldering Maya instead of actually parenting her. No wonder Maya thinks there is no consequences. She can get away with anything. Maya can do these things because mom needs her to babysit. If mom puts up a stink, no babysitting. Matter of convenience and not being assed.
THANK YOU
I am so relieved someone saw between the lines
I also immediately had a gut feeling something was REALLY off
Agreed! There would be no prom for her(Maya)! She would have to stay with grand parents bc her even trying to hook up her 14 year old sis with almost grown, gang members is crazy! I think she was low-key jealous of her lil sis. Just my opinion. The fact that she would even bring up prom as if nothing happened is suspect to me! Like your sis was gang raped by your friends and you are worried about prom?! Wtf?!
Yup! "Fine, if they want her but not me, idc. Take it. Not like I'll get punished anyways."
Yeah, I'm sorry OP but, knowingly or not, Maya set her up.
She left conveniently and no one else helped
The whole thing was definitely planned
It was clearly a set up. I'm sure she doesn't want to think that necause who would want think their own child is this much of a monster? I'm not going to say what ype of punishment she deserves.
God I hope not. That’s some Karla Homolka level action.
It's not uncommon for debts to be paid in this way by people. Id be so on top of the eldest daughter she wouldnt be able to breathe, no more smart phone, no more leaving the house with friends, tracker at all times. Whats she even doing hanging out with gang members?
this.
nobody is that dumb.
Upon reflection, now I've had time to actually think about this situation.
It's clear OP is an absent mum who has successfully parentified her 18 year old daughter to babysit for her whilst she's working. She's put so much adult responsibility onto Maya that Maya has become "older" than she should - eg drugs, older men, dodgy people, etc. she tries to fit into the adult world role
She detached and avoids the situation because she's never been held accountable for her behaviour
I guarantee you that mum lets Maya do whatever she wants because she needs Maya to babysit whilst she's at work.
There is WAY more to this story.
The fact she doesn't even seem to know her daughter Maya has "gang" affiliation? How do you not notice signs of grooming in your child?
I'll tell you how - you are not looking
You're rose tinted, avoiding, pretending, not there, not present
And now this has culminated into Maya making a fucking awful mistake and a horrendous decision. Now Maya will be scapegoated and be blamed for her mum's shit parenting.
This is an absolutely tragic situation.
How do you know this wasn’t a gang initiation? My little sister was gang raped but the guy who took her to the party and left her there, it was his way into the gang. Are you sure your daughter isn’t a gang member now? I was a bad influence when I was a teenager. I smoked pot and did drugs. But I would NEVER leave my little sister alone… one time she called me scared and I left where I was to go get her immediately. I warned her about the guy who took her to that party. It caused horrible damage to my sister. PTSD which hasn’t ever gone away. She’s 34 now. I believe it also was the event that triggered her schizophrenia. Now she just has recurring hallucinations of being raped her entire life. I would investigate your eldest daughter further. Sounds like a gang initiation to me.
This is good thinking. This all feels too set up for Maya to not have any idea what was going to happen
I was scrolling far too long before I saw this comment. Op, please read.
This should be top comment imo. Horrifyingly common
Absolutely. And gives reason as to why she would leave. She did not want to be around to hear what she knew was about to happen.
i think this is very possible when you also consider that maya is so “remorseful” but is getting ready for prom and is skipping therapy
OP please read this comment.
Came here to say the same. This whole goddamn thing sounds like a setup initiated by your oldest. Your feelings as her mother are 100000000% valid. The skipping therapy part, and still having access to prom, or literally anything, shows a lack of empathy, compassion, and remorse. I, quite frankly, I don't think your oldest gives enough of a fuck. Excluding the rape, my biggest question is... who the hell hosts a party and LEAVES?
Doordash/uber eats/etc exist for a fcking reason. Or you know, one of those shitbag grownups could have run to McDonald's to get food for everyone. I would have your oldest so far under a microscope, she'd be inside of it. This ABSOLUTELY sounds like a gang initiation. Also, your daughter is 18, she's an adult, sure, but how old were some of these dudes she was supposedly, "friends" with, and what the fuck were they doing in your house? She's lucky she's not being charged with "accessory after the fact". The entire situation was preventable, and your daughter is an absolute monster. Sorry, not sorry.
Oh my goodness im so sorry!! I remember dealing with bad ptsd and slipped into psychosis for a while it was just awful..
It destroyed her. She wanted to hangout with that guy but I knew he was bad news. If I had known she planned to go to that party I would have stopped it. She wouldn’t tell me because she knew I wouldn’t let her go. A friend of mine actually saved her and brought her home. We never pursued charges. She just wanted to forget about it and then going to a domestic violence shelter and having to relocate. It’s a small town and the gang would have retaliated. I moved out of that town as fast as I could. People depend so heavily on law enforcement but they don’t help everyone. We were in poverty and my mom was a known drug addict. They wouldn’t have cared. I blame myself. We did not have a healthy home life. I ended up being the one to look after my sister. I just didn’t get my apartment fast enough, (too young) as soon as I got an apartment I moved her in… but the damage was done.
You did what you could. Don't blame yourself.
This actually makes so much sense when you lay down all of her actions / responses.
I’m 19 and have a 16 year old sister, I could never have invited such men into our home, let alone leave them with her…she knew better and you have every right to be upset at her. I’m sorry this happened to Lia and that your family experienced this. Please seek therapy and take care of yourself as well 🤍
Thank you for this. I thought I was being to hard on her for having these thoughts and I’m glad I’m getting this perspective from someone close her age because it’s been so long ago when I was 18 years old and I forgot how my mind worked then.
Your daughter was old enough to understand that she was putting her younger sister in danger. Not only did she invite questionable men over but she left her alone in the house with them. This is something that’s going to scar Lia, it’s held her back education wise, who knows how it will affect her future romantic relationships.
It’s absolutely devastating that this ever happened. Your older daughter did not protect your younger daughter. Absolutely crazy she thought it was okay to put a 14 year old in that position.
I know you have to eventually forgive your daughter, but she fucked up majorly.
Ofc I agree with everyone else, get family therapy, maybe even therapy for just the two of you so you can actually voice how you feel. The anger and resentment will eat away at you otherwise.
I’m so sorry this has happened and it’s so sick of those men to do that to a child. I hope you’re all doing okay
I also cannot understand why Maya left the house to go to fucking McDonald’s and left her 14yo sister alone with all her friends, including four men who were already harassing Lia before Maya decided McDonald’s was a must-have. I might be able to get past the party, and maybe Maya trying to set up Lia with a man far too old for her, but to leave her little sister alone in a house with a bunch of strangers is a bridge too far. I don’t know how Maya can’t blame herself. I feel for you, OP. You are in a horrible position. My heart is broken for your Lia. And for you. Lia will never be the same. Does Maya understand that?
Honestly the OP is completely justified in kicking the 18 year old out of the house. If she wants to hang out with gangs then she can do that outside of her house and without hurting the daughter.
I can’t imagine having a dead husband, raising two kids alone for how many ever years, and then having this happen to one kid by another.
Even if it was a must have why tf! She didn’t order through Uber eats. Like anyone else would’ve have. This just doesn’t feel right at all.
You should not be getting past the fact that she wanted an adult man to rape her 14 year old sister. That is what "setting up" is when one of the people is a child.
As a rape survivor The future relationships part is all to true Due to the the raoe that happened to me My husband still cant touch me without me seeing his face or its a isntant trigger This is after years of being together Keep in mind i become very angry and emotional and Acturally get trioggerd without noticing I have always been weary and use to subconsciously compre the people i was with to my rapist out of fear out of if happening again I wanted to know and male sure they were diffrent enough that it would never happen
Honestly why is she not grounded? Why is she going to prom, living her life normally? She should be severely punished until she moves out for what she allowed to happen to her sister. The fact that she’s trying to act like everything is normal while Lia never can is disgusting.
I agree with this
This! Maya just ruined her sister's life and she goes on and on with her stuff, OP has every right to be angry. She should be punished, cancel all her plans.
You are not being harsh, OP. The rape of your innocent younger daughter was avoidable, had your irresponsible and selfish 18 year old (who can vote, own a home, legally drink in many countries), followed your rules, and in the process, not disrespected you. She threw a party without your approval; she invited strangers with criminal links into your home; worst of all, she left her underaged sister unattended with these animals lurking about, especially in what should have been the safety of her home. The problem with rape is that there is no going back, it can not be undone, therefore your oldest can not undo her actions which let to your youngest's traumatic experience. You have every right to be angry with her. Rules are there for a good reason, e.g. to prevent serious incidents, etc.
If you have a relative nearby, maybe consider having your oldest move in with them temporarily, if the former is willing to take her in, as I think you need time and space.
Edit: don't be afraid to lay into Maya, she thoroughly deserves it, becauaw her remorse is lip service, not genuine, owing to the way she is concentrating on her prom, as if it is all done and dusted. With you screaming at her, tearing her a new one, she still gets off lightly. Also, you need to let your anger out for your own wellbeing. What happened is not OK, and Maya needs to be held to account, especially criminally, because she did set your 14 year old up to be raped. What decent sibling encourages a man to sexually pursue their underaged sister? She should not get to live her life care free when her sister for the foreseeable future can not.
Honestly, Lia probably needs to hear her mother lay into Maya. The worst part of being SA as a kid was that no one stood up for me.
Idk if it’s just the way I grew up but honestly when I was at that I was extremely cautious for my siblings vs myself. Before being parentified I always did have a strong big sister/motherly attitude with my siblings. I think it’s extremely common sense since Lia is so young yet like why leave with that many strangers in the house?
Frick man there were times I couldn’t forgive my mom for not doing the right thing for my brothers. I even hold guilt cuz of the things I thought was normal wasn’t. I think it’s okay to feel this way cuz in the end Maya was responsible for those who were under her care.
See, this is the problem with mom's that are stuck in this situation. You're not being hard enough on Maya. She is honestly the reason that this happened and she is not being held accountable for her actions. Just because she's a child too. She knew better and the fact that you're not forcing her to go to therapy. As her parent is an issue too. I'm not trying to be mean on you. But you also need to step up and be her parent as well.
I’m sorry to say it but she did set up Lia. She threw a party without your permission, tried to push one of the boys on Lia, then left her there unprotected knowing they aren’t of good character, now unfortunately the poor baby is traumatized forever. That was her first time and it was taken from her.. I know what that feels like. Please find her therapy. No one has to hate the eldest daughter but she surely couldn’t stay in my house after that.
Honestly same. Is she trying to get in the gang? Did she get scared and decided better for her sister to get raped and not her? She’s not an idiot she felt the vibe and left before they raped everyone there. She brought dangerous men home. And got scared. And left her vulnerable sister alone. A CHILD. My daughter is 14- she’s in the 8th grade.
A middle school girl was gang raped and her oldest sister wants to go to prom.
Yeah I would not like her either.
Because I don’t like her.
18 is dumb and young. But putting your child sister up for that violation- That’s different.
She knew. And she didn’t care. She ate her fried, had a soda, ate a cheap burger or a crap nuggets while her sister was being violently raped in her own room in her own house, invited over by her own sister.
Hope that party was worth it, hope that meal was delicious.
It costed your sister everything.
What you’re feeling is 10000000% understandable. I imagine your heart feels agonizingly torn. They’re both your daughters. But… my gosh. I’m so sorry. It sounds like Lia is a resilient and forgiving sweetheart. I hope your family finds peace soon. If Lia can forgive her sister, maybe one day OP can too.
Someone else mentioned it but I don't know if you saw it - given that Maya apparently has dealings with known gang members, you might want to consider the possibility that she's into drugs and 'sold' her sister to get some. She may have said she's sorry, but her actions are saying otherwise.
You also should acknowledge that you as the parent may also now suffer from some ptsd from this situation. The rape kit scene, the initial trauma of finding your daughter, then watching this downward spiral.
PTSD happens in cases where you feel your death is imminent while under extreme circumstances, you are put into a constant position of fear and severe helplessness, and obviously, having witnessed something traumatic, firsthand.
I know everyone on here jumps to therapy and normally NOTHING annoys me more than the assumption that it’s affordable or even available to every Joe Schmo.
BUT it is VERY likely that the hospital can put you in contact with therapy for (obviously your youngest if she wishes) for the family and support groups. Especially to help you navigate these exact feelings.
Lastly, as a last resort, and definitely use caution, but even forums like Reddit or groups on facebook for people who’ve been in this situation can maybe get you some good advice that can help until professional help arrives.
Also maybe I’m wrong but it’s like there were zero ramifications for the 18 year old daughter holding that party and inviting in those dangerous ass ppl to into the families home.
OP why is your daughter allowed to go to prom? She should be grounded. 18 year old daughter really does whatever she wants hm..
So remorseful Maya is just moving on in life, going to prom, talking about random things, pretending like she didn’t just play a part in destroying people’s lives.
Thank you. I feel people are just glossing over this. Maya doesn’t get reprimanded for anything here at all? She did something wrong and on top of that wrong doing, it was the catalyst for her sister’s rape. I mean ???? The younger daughter will grow resentful for the lack of responsibility taken by her older sister.
Her gang rape. Recorded on their cell phones. Absolutely disgusting and so scary.
Yes, it is really disgusting. on the other hand, thank God those guys were so stupid as to record their crimes.
Not to mention she's skipping her therapy.So honestly how remorseful is this girl. I don't think anyone has really face her and drilled home what she did and how She set this up. She literally did every single thing wrong to create tyes situation. Honestly, it looks like she tried to make this happen. It's like she went out of her way by leaving the house when there's a house party going on in her house.