some, i notice, in the audience are wearing masks, others are not. but this is the big moment. the candidates, of course, have been waiting for this. markets, of course, have been all over the map wondering about the significance of this. but the moment that the chris wallace tries to control and remain as invisible as possible. ♪ neil: all right. chris wallace might say i just want to fade into the background, want to be as invisible as i possibly can, but that might be hard to pull off tonight on a night like this where you have joe biden and the president of the united states chomping at the bit to get their points across. as we see the first lady arrive into that cleveland case reserve university, we're also getting a sense here that this could be a pretty dramatic 90 minutes here for these two going at it. there'll be two more debates after this on october 15th in miami, october 22nd in

nashville. there will be one in between facing the vice president candidates at the university of utah in salt lake city. real quickly joined by charles payne, lou dobbs. lou, what do you think the president has to do tonight? lou: first and foremost, be himself. and to use his original mind, as i'm sure he will, and his sense of humor. those are two advantages he has that he exploited in 2016 to his great and winning effect. i expect him to do precisely the same thing tonight. neil: you know, charles payne, debates -- we're going up over these in the years dating back to 1976 with jimmy carter and gerald ford, you have to present yourself -- especially joe biden, you're as well known.

not quite as well known, obviously, as the president of the united states, but you have to reintroduce yourself. both men, essentially, reintroducing themself. likability come up as some intangible, george bush had that against al gore, ronald reagan, certainly, in that one and only debate with jimmy carter. your thoughts on that intangible quality. charles: you know, that's ooh -- that's a great point, neil. biden's been around for a long time, in d.c. for 47 years, but he is reinventing himself. and a lot of what he's going to do and say tonight will go against the older joe biden, and we have to believe that this is the new biden that will be the president of the united states if he wins, and these are the new policies and the new things that he believes in. so he's been lurching to the left trying to also convince the middle and other voters that he's not lurching too far. he's really got to, you know, he's got to -- he's on the stage with president trump, but he's also walking a very tight rope

with respect to his own party and the far left which has all the energy and all the momentum. and then the broader voting electorate that does not want some of the more egregious, you know, wild ideas. so he's got a tight rope to walk. neil: all right. gentlemen, i want to thank you very much. just to give you a sense, 30 seconds away from crust wallace taking the -- chris wallace taking the stage. they will not a have a role for fact checker, the candidates will try to clarify themselves. the debate commission here was very strict on that rule. that is not chris wallace's job. it is distinctly possible, though, that the candidates will try to force that on chris. good luck on that. now, the start of the presidential debate.

[background sounds] chris: good evening from the health education campus of case western reserve university and the cleveland clinic. i'm chris wallace of fox news, and i welcome you to the first of the 2020 presidential debates between president donald j. trump and former vice president joe biden. this debate is sponsored by the commission on presidential debates. the commission has designed the format, six roughly 15-minute segments with 2-minute answers from each candidate to the first question, then open discussion for the rest of each segment. both campaigns have agreed to these rules. for the record, i decided the topics and the questions in each topic. i can assure you none of the questions has been shared with the commission or the two candidates. this debate is being conducted under health and safety

protocols designed by the cleveland clinic which is serving as the health security adviser to the commission for all four debates. as a precaution, both campaigns have agreed the candidates will not shake hands at the beginning of tonight's debate. the audience here in the hall has promised to remain silent, no cheers, no boos or other interruptions so we and, more importantly, you can focus on what the candidates have to say. no noise except right now as we welcome the republican nominee, president trump, and the democratic nominee, vice president biden. [applause] >> how you doing, man? >> i'm well. [applause] chris: gentlemen, a lot of

people have been waiting for this night, so let's get going. our first subject is the supreme court. president trump, you nominated amy coney barrett over the weekend to succeed the late ruth bader ginsburg on the court. you say the constitution is clear about your obligation and the senate's to consider a nominee to the court. vice president biden, you say that this is an effort by the president and republicans to jam through an appointment and what you call an abuse of power. my first question to both of you tonight, why are you right and make the argument you make and your opponent wrong, and where do you think a justice barrett would take the court? president trump, in this first segment, you go first. two minutes. president trump: thank you very much, chris. i will tell you very simply, we won the election. elections have consequences. we have the senate, we have the white house, and we have a

phenomenal nominee respected by all, top, top academic, good in every way. good in every way with. in fact, some of her biggest endorsers are very liberal people from notre dame and other places. so i think she's going to be fantastic. we have plenty of time. even if we did it after after the election itself. i have a lot of time after the election, as you know. so i think that she will be outstanding. she's going to be as good as anybody the that has served on that court. we really feel that. we have a professor at notre dame, highly respected by all, says she's the single greatest student he's ever had. he's been a professor for a long time at a great school, and we just -- we won the election and, therefore, we have the right to choose her, and very few people knowingly would say otherwise. by the way, the democrats, they wouldn't wouldn't even think about not doing it. the only difference is they'd try and do it faster. there's no way they would give it up. they had merrick garland, but

the problem is they didn't have the election, so they were stopped. and probably that would happen in reverse also, definitely would happen in reverse. is so we won the election, and we have the right to do it, chris. chris: president trump, thank you. same question to you, vice president biden. you have two minutes. vice president biden: first of all, thank you for doing this, and looking forward to doing this, mr. president. i -- the american people have a right to have a say in who the supreme court nominee is, and that say occurs when they vote for a united states senator and when they vote for the president of the united states. they're not going to get that chance now because we're in the middle of an election already. the election has already started. tens of thousands of people have already voted. what should happen is we should wait. we should wait and see what the outcome of this election is, because that's the only way the american people get to express their view, is by who they elect as president and who they elect as vice president.

now, what's at stalk here, the president's made it clear he wants to get are rid of the affordable care act. he's been running on that, he ran on that, and he has been governing on that. he's in the supreme court right now trying to get rid of the affordable care act which will strip 20 million people from having insurance, health insurance now if it goes in the court. and the justice -- and i have nothing, i'm not opposed to the justice. she she seems like a very fine person. but she's written, before she went on the bench which is her right, that she thinks the affordable care act is not constitutional. the other thing -- and if it's struck down, what happens? women's rights are fundamentally changed. once again, a woman could be held, pay more money because she has a pre-existing condition of pregnancy. they're able to charge a woman more for the same exact procedure a man did -- gets. and that ended when we, in fact, passed the a affordable care

act. and there's 100 million people that have pre-existing conditions. and they'll be taken away as well. those pre-existing conditions, insurance companies are going to love this. and so it's just not appropriate to do this before this election. if he wins the election and the senate is democrat or republican, then he goes forward. if not, we should wait until february. president trump: there aren't 100 million people with pre-existing conditions. as far as the say is concerned, the people have already had their say. they -- okay. justice ginsburg said very powerfully, very strong ily, at some point ten years ago or so, she said a president and the senate is collected for a period of time. but a president's elected for four years. we're not elected for three years. i'm not elected for three years. so we have the senate, we have a president during that period of time we have an opening. i'm not elected for three years, i'm elected for four years -- >> election's already started --

>> joe, 100 million people is totally wrong. i don't know where you got that number. the bigger problem you have is you're going to extinguish 180 million people with their private. >> that's simply not true -- [inaudible conversations] chris: we're now into -- gentlemen, we're now into open discussion. >> open discussion. chris: go ahead, vice president. vice president biden: number one, he knows what i've proposed. what i've proposed is we ec expd obamacare and we increase it. and one of the big debates we had with 23 of i my colleagues trying to win the nomination that i won were saying that biden wanted to allow people to have private insurance still. they can, they do, they will under my proposal. >> not what you've said, and it's not what your party has said -- the party doesn't -- [inaudible conversations] your party wants to go socialist medicine. >> the party -- right now i am -- >> nominate you, joe, you know that. >> i am the democratic party

right now. >> not according to harris. >> it's what i, in fact, approved of, what i approved of. now here's the deal, the deal is that it's going to wipe out pre-existing -- and, be by the way, the 20 -- the 200 million -- the 200,000 people that have died under his watch, how many of those have survived? well, there's 7 million people that contracted covid. what does it mean for them going forward if you strike down the awe affordable care act? >> joe, you've had 308,000 military people dying because you couldn't provide them proper health care in the military, so don't tell me -- >> i'm happy to talk about -- here's the deal -- >> if you were here, it would be 2 million people -- [laughter] because you were very late on the draw. >> late on the draw -- >> china, which was heavily infected -- chris: all right, gentlemen, we're going to -- [inaudible conversations] chris: mr. president, mr. president -- >> you're talking about 2 million people. chris: -- moderator. we are going to talk about covid senate next segment, but go

ahead. >> met me finish. the point is the president also is opposed to roe v. wade. and that's on the ballot as well in the court. in the court. that's also at stake right now. and so the election -- >> you don't know it's on the ballot. why is it on the ballot? >> because -- >> why is it -- it's not on the ballot. >> it's on the ballot in the court. >> i don't think so. there's nothing happening there. >> donald -- >> you don't know her view on roe v. wade. you don't know her view. chris: well, all right. let's talk -- we've got a lot to unpack if here, gentlemen, we've got a lot of time. [laughter] so on health care, and then e we'll come back to roe v. wade. >> all right. chris: mr. president, the supreme court will hear a case a week after the election in which the trump administration along with 18 state attorneys general are seeking to overturn -- >> that's right. chris: -- obamacare. to end obamacare. >> because we want to -- chris: if i may ask my question,

sir. over the last four years, you have promised to repeal and replace obamacare, but you have never in these four years come up with a plan, a comprehensive -- >> yes, i have. chris: -- to replace obamacare. >> of course i have. chris: well, i'm going to -- >> excuse me, i got rid of the -- chris: that is not a comprehensive -- >> that is absolutely a -- chris: i did not -- hey, let me ask my question -- >> well, i'll ask joe. did you think the mandate was the most unpopular aspect of obamacare? i got rid of it -- chris: mr. president, i'm the moderator of this debate, and i would like to let you ask my question, and then you can answer. >> go ahead. chris: you, in the course of these four years have never come up with a comprehensive plan to replace obamacare and, just as last thursday, you signed a largely symbolic executive order to protect people with pre-existing conditions five days before this debate.

so my question, sir, is what is the trump health care plan? >> all right. well, first of all, i guess i'm debating you, not him, but that's okay, i'm not surprised. [laughter] let me just tell you something, there's nothing symbolic. i'm cutting drug prices. i'm going with favored nations which no president has the courage to do because you're going against big pharma. drug prices will be coming down 80-90%. you could have done it in your 47-year period in government, but you didn't do it. [laughter] so we're cutting health care -- >> what about -- >> i give you an example. insulin, it's going to -- it was destroying families, destroying people because i'm getting it for so cheap. it's like water, you want to know the truth, so cheap. take a look at all of the drugs that what we're doing, prescription drug prices. we're going to allow our governors now to go to other countries to buy drugs because they paw just a -- chris: this is not open discussion. let me -- sir, you'll be happy i'm about to pick up on one of your points to ask the vice president which is, as he points

out that you would like to add a public option to obamacare -- >> yes. chris: -- and the argument that he makes and other republicans make is that that is going to end private insurance -- >> it is not. chris: i'm asking the question. >> i'm sorry. >> [inaudible] by the way. chris: it will end private insurance and create a government takeover of health care. >> it does not. it's only for those people who are so poor they qualify for medicaid. they can get that free in most states except governors who want to deny people who are poor medicaid. anyone who qualifies for medicare -- excuse me, medicaid would automatically be enrolled in the public option. the vast majority of the american people would still not be in that option. number one. >> joe, so you agree with bernie sanders and the far left -- >> can you -- >> -- socialized medicine. >> look. the fact of the matter is i beat bernie sanders -- >> not by much. >> i beat him by a whole hell

hell of a lot finish. >> pocahontas would have left two days earlier -- [inaudible conversations] you got very lucky. >> look, here's the deal. i'm going to get very lucky tonight as well, and tonight i'm going to make sure because here's the deal, here's the deal, the fact is that everything he's saying so far is simply a lie. i'm not here to call out his lies. everybody knows he's a liar -- >> but you agree -- no, you're the liar. you were last in your class, not fist in your class. [laughter] >> i want to -- chris: mr. president, can you let him finish, sirsome. >> he doesn't know how to do that. >> you'd be surprised. >> you picked the wrong guy, the wrong night, the wrong time. >> listen, you agreed with bernie sanders -- >> there is no manifesto, number one. chris: please let him speak, or mr. president. >> you just lost the left. you just lost the left. you agreed with bernie sanders -- >> folks, do you have any idea what this clown's doing?

>> -- socialized medicine. chris: mr. president -- >> i tell you what, he is not for any help for people needing health care because he, in fact, already has cost 10 million people their health care that they had from their employers because of his recession. number one. number two, there are 20 million people getting health care through obamacare now that he wants to take it away. he won't look you in the eye and say that's what he wants to do -- >> no, i want to give them better health care at a much lower price because obamacare -- >> he doesn't know how -- >> he has never offered a plan. >> obamacare, as you -- chris: gentlemen, do you realize you're both speak at the same time? let the president -- go ahead, sir. >> obamacare is no good. we made it better. and i had a choice to make very early on. we took what e the individual mandate, with we guaranteed pre-existing conditions but took away the -- >> not true. >> listen, this is the way it is.

[laughter] >> and that destroyed -- they shouldn't even call it obamacare. then i had a choice to make, do i let my people run it really well or badly? if i run it badly, they'll probably blame him, but they'll blame me, but more importantly, i want to help people, okay? i said you're going to run it so well. and i just had a meeting with them. they said the problem is no matter how well you run obamacare, it's a disaster. chris: i got it. >> we do want to get rid of it, chris, we want to get rid of it -- chris: i understand, sir, but i have to give you roughly equal time. >> good. chris: please let the vice president talk. >> he has no man for health care -- >> yes, we do. chris: please. >> he sends -- wishful thinking. he has executive orders that have no power. he hasn't lowered drug costs for anybody. he's been promising a health care plan since he got elected. he has none, like almost everything else he talks about. he does not have a plan. he doesn't have a plan. and the fact is this man doesn't

know what he's talking about. chris: all right. i have one final question for you -- >> sure. chris: -- mr. vice president. if senate republicans -- we were talking originally about the supreme court here. if senate republicans go ahead and confirm justice barrett, there has been talk about ending the filibuster or even packing the court, adding to the nine justices there. you call in this a distraction i by the president, but, in fact, it wasn't brought up by the president, it was brought up by some of your democratic colleagues in congress. so my question to you is you have refused in the past to talk about it. are you willing to tell the american people tonight whether or not you will support either ending the filibuster or packing the -- >> whatever position i take on that, that'll become the issue. the issue is the american people should speak. you should go out and vote. you're in voting now. vote and let your senators know how strongly you feel. let -- vote now. >> are you going to pack the courtsome. >> let people know --

>> he isn't going to answer -- >> i'm not going to answer the -- >> why wouldn't you -- >> would you shut up, man? >> who's you know list, joe? who's on your -- >> this is so un-presidential -- >> he's not going to give a list. chris: we have ended this segment. >> that was really a productive segment, wasn't it? keep yapping, man. >> the people understand, joe. 47 years you've done nothing. they understand. chris: all right. the second subject -- [laughter] is covid-19, which is an awfully serious subject, so let's try to be serious about it. we have had more than 7 million cases of coronavirus in the united states and more than 200,000 people have died. even after we produce a vaccine, experts say that it could be months or even years before we come back to anything approaching normal. my question for both of you is based on what you have said and

done so far and what you have said you would do starting in 2021, whaished the american people -- whaished the american people trust you more than your opponent to deal with this public health crisis going forward; in this case, the question goes to you first, sir. two minutes uninterrupted. >> good luck. 200,000 dead. as you said, over 7 million infected in the united states. we, in fact, have 5%, 4% of the world's population, 20% of the deaths. 40,000 the people a day are contracting covid. in addition to that, about between 750-1,000 people a day are dying. when he was presented with that number he said it is what it is. it is what it is because you are who you are. that's why it is. the president has no plan. he hasn't laid out anything. he knew all the way back in february how serious this crisis

was. he knew it was a deadly disease. what did he do? he's on tape as acknowledging he knew it. he said he didn't tell us or give people warning of it because he didn't want to panic the american people. you don't panic, he panicked. in addition to that, what did he do? we were insisting that the chinese -- the people on the ground in china should be able to go to wuhan and determine for themselves how dangerous this was. he dud not even ask -- he dud not even ask xi to do that. he told us what a great job xi was doing. he said we owe him a debt of gratitude for being so transparent with us. and what did he do then? he then did -- he waited and waited and waited. he still doesn't have a plan -- chris: sir -- >> exactly what we should be doing, and i laid out in july what we should be doing. we should be providing all the protective gear possible, we should be providing the money the house has passed in order to be able to go out and get people

the help they need to keep their businesses open, open schools have cost a lot of money. you should get out of your bunker and get out of the sand trap in your golf course and bring together the democrats and republicans and fund what needs to be done now to save lives. so -- >> if we would have listened -- chris: two minutes, sir. >> if we would have listened to you, the country would have been left wide open, millions of people would have died, not 200,000 -- and 1 person is too much. it's china's fault, it should have never happened. they stopped it from going in, but it was china's fault. and, by the way, when you talk about numbers, you don't know how many people died in china, you don't know how people died in russia or india. they don't exactly give you a straight count, just so you un. but if you look at what we've done, i closed it, and you said he's racist and xenophobic -- chris: sir, it's his two minutes. >> you didn't think we should close our country because you thought it was too -- it was

terrible. you wouldn't have closeed it for another two months. but my doing it early, in fact, dr. fauci said president trump saved thousands of lives. many of you democrat governors said president trump did a phenomenal job -- [laughter] oh, really? take a look. [laughter] governors said i did a phenomenal job. most of them said that. in fact, people that would not be necessarily on my side said that. president trump did a phenomenal job. we did. we got the gowns, we got the masks, we made the ventilators. you wouldn't have made ventilators. and now we're weeks away from a vaccine, we're doing therapeutics already, fewer people are dying when they get sick, far fewer people are dying. we've done a great job. the only thing i haven't done a good job, and that's because of the fake news. they give you bad press on it. they give you good press, they give me bad press because that's the way it is, unfortunately. let me just say -- i don't care, ooh i've gotten used to it. you could never have done the

job that we did. you don't have it in your blood, you could have never done the job. >> i know how to do the job -- >> well, you didn't do very well on swine flu. h1n1, you were a disaster -- >> 14,000 people died, not 200,000 -- chris: sir, you made a point. let -- >> and there is the no one, we didn't shut down the economy. this is his economy that that's being -- he shut down. the reason it's shut down is because, look, you folks at home, how many of you got up this morning and had an 'em ity chair at the kitchen table because someone died of covid? how many of you are in a situation where you lost your mom or dad and you couldn't even speak to them except for a nurse holding a phone up -- >> we would have lost far more people, far more people --? >> and you would -- >> and by the way -- >> his own cdc director says we could lose as many as another 200,000 people between now and the end of the year.

and if we just wear a mask, we can save half those numbers, just a mask. and by the way, in terms of the whole notion of a vaccine, we're for a vaccine, but i don't thrust him at all nor do you, i know you don't. what we trust is the -- >> you don't trust johnson & johnson, pfizer? chris: gentlemen, let me move on to questions about the future, because you both have touched on one of the -- two of the questions i'm going to ask. focusing on the future. president trump, you have are e peatedly either contradicted or been at odds with some of your government's own top scientists. the week before last the head of the centers for disease control, dr. redfield, said it would be summer before the vaccine would become generally available to the public. you said that he was confused and mistaken. those were your two words. >> yeah. chris: but the head of your operation warp speed has said exactly the same thing. are they both wrong? >> well, i've spoken to the

companies, and we can have it a lot sooner. it's a very political thing because people like this would rather make it political than save lives. i've spoken to pfizer, i've spoken to all of the people that you have to speak to. we have great -- moderna, johnson & johnson and others. they can go faster than that i by a lot. it's become very political because the left -- [inaudible conversations] can. chris: the head of your operation warp speed -- >> i disagree with him. and he didn't say that. he said it could be there, but he said it could also be much -- chris: he talked about the summer, sir, before it's generally available. >> he said it's a possibility that we'll have the answer before november 1st. it could also be after that. chris: generally available -- >> well, we're going to deliver it right away. we have the military all set up. logistically they're all set up. we have our military that delivers soldiers, and they can do 200,000 a day -- >> this is the same man who told us by easter this would be gone away, by the warm weather it'd

be gone, like a miracle. by the way, maybe you could inject some bleach in your arm -- the. >> that's sarcastic. that was said sarcastically. >> here's the deal, this man is talking about a vaccine. every serious, every serious company is talking about maybe having a vaccine done by the end of the year. but the distribution of that vaccine will not occur until sometime beginning or the middle of next year to get it out. if we get the vaccine. and pray god we will. pray god we will. chris: mr. vice president, i want to pick up, i want to pick up on this we question though. you say the public can trust the scientists but they can't trust president trump. in fact, you said that again tonight. your running mate, senator harris, says the public health experts, quote: will be muzzled, will be suppressed. given the fact that polls already show that people are concerned about the vaccine and are reluctant to take it, are you and your running mate, senator harris, contributing to that fear?

>> no more than the question you just asked me. you pointed out he puts pressure and disagrees with his own scientists. chris: but you're saying senator harris is saying you can't trust -- >> well, no, you can trust the scientists. she didn't say that -- chris: she said the public health experts club muzzled, will be suppressed. >> that's what he's going to try to do. there's millions of scientists, there's thousands of scientists like here at this great hospital that don't work for him. their job doesn't depend on him. they're the people -- and, by the way -- >> those are the scientists that are in charge. they will have the vaccine very soon. >> if you believe for a moment what he's telling you in light of all the lies he's told you about the whole issue relating to covid. he still hasn't even acknowledged that he knew this was happening, knew how dangerous it was going to be back in february, and he didn't even tell you -- he's on record as saying it. he panicked or he just looked at

the stock market. one of the two. because, guess what? a lot of people died, and a lot more are going to die unless he gets a lot smarter a lot quicker. chris: mr. president? >> did you use the word smart? so you said you went to delaware state, but you forgot the name of your college. [laughter] you didn't go to delaware state. you graduated either the lowest or almost the lowest in your class. don't ever use the word smart with me. don't ever use that word -- >> oh, give me a break. >> because, you know what? there's nothing smart about you, joe. 47 years, you've done nothing -- >> let's have this debate. >> let me just tell you something, joe, if you would have had the charge of what i was put through, i had to close the greatest economy in the history of our country -- chris: we'll get to the economy in the next segment, sir. >> it's going up fast. chris: okay. when it comes to how the virus has been handled so far, the two of you have taken very different approaches, and this is going to affect how the virus is handled

forward by whichever of you ends up becoming the next president. i want to go through several things. reopenings. vice president biden, you have been much more reluctant than president trump about reopening the economy and schools. why, sirsome. >> because he doesn't have a plan. if i were running it, i'd know what the plan is. you've got to provide these businesses the ability to have the money to be able to reopen with the ppe as well as with the sanitation they need. you have to pro-- >> tell that to nancy pelosi. >> please just shush for a minute. >> tell it to nancy pelosi. schumer. >> nancy pelosi and schumer, they have a plan. he won't even meet with them. the republicans won't meet with the senate. he sits in his golf course and, i mean, literally, think about it -- >> you probably play more than i do, joe. chris: what about this question of reopenings and the fact -- >> well, he wants to shut down this country, and i want to keep it open. and we did a great thing by -- >> wait a minute, joe, let me

shut you down just for one second. we want to -- he wants to shut down the country. we just went through it. we we had to because we didn't know anything about the disease. now we found that elderly people with heart problems and diabetes and different problems are very, very vulnerable. we learned a lot. young children aren't, even younger people aren't. we've learned a lot. but he wants to shut it down. more people will be hurt by continuing, if you look at pennsylvania, if you look at certain states that have been shut down they have democrat governors, all, one of the reasons they're shut down is because they want to keep it shut down until after the election on november 3rd -- chris: i want to move on to another subject -- >> aye got to respond -- chris: gentlemen, i want to -- >> those states are not doing well that are shut down. chris: president trump, you have begun to increasingly question the effectiveness of masks as a disease preventer and, in fact, recently you cited the issue of waiters touching their masks and touching plates. are you questioning the --

>> no, i think -- chris: a mask? >> if you understand, i have a mask right here. i put a mask on when i think i need it. tonight, as an example, everybody's had a test, and you've had social distancing and all of the things, but when needed, i wear masks. i don't wear masks like him. he could be speaking 200 feet away from -- he shows up with the biggest mask i've ever seen. [laughter] chris: vice president biden, go ahead, sir. >> look, the way to open businesses is to gulf them the wherewithal to get -- chris: i was asking you, sir, about masks. >> masks make a big difference. his own head of the cdc said if we just wore masks, if everybody wore masks and social distanced between now and january, we'd probably save up to 100,000 lives. it matters -- >> and they've also said the opposite. >> no serious person said the opposite. >> what about dr. fauci?

chris: i want to ask you, we've got a minute left -- >> masks are not good. then he changed his mind and said -- ike okay with masks. chris: i want to ask you about one last subject because your different approach has even affected the way that you have campaigned. president trump, you're holding large rallies with crowds packed together, thousands of people -- >> outside. chris: outside. yes, sir, agreed. vice president biden, you are holding much smaller events -- >> because nobody will show up. chris: -- people with -- [laughter] >> nobody shows up to his -- chris: okay, all right. why are you holding the big rallies, why are you not? you go first, sir. >> because people want to hear what i have to say. [inaudible conversations] i'm the president, and i have 25,35,000 people show up at airports. we use -- chris: are you not worried about -- >> well, so far we have had no problem whatsoever. it's outside, that's a big difference according to the experts. we do 'em outside. we have tremendous crowds, as

you see. i mean, every -- and literally on 24 hours' notice. and joe does the circles and has three people someplace -- chris: okay. >> by the way -- >> one of the last rallies heed had, a reporter came up to him and said, no, no, no, stand back, put on your mask. have you been tested. i'm way far away from those other people. and that's what he said. i'm going to be okay. he's not worried about you. he's not worried about the people out there breathing -- >> no negative effect. we've had no negative effect, and we've had 35, 40,000 people at these rallies. chris: let's finish up, because i'm going to -- >> yes, i would. he's been totally irresponsible the way in which he has handled the social distancing, the people wearing masks, basically encouraging them not to. chris: all right. >> he's a fool on this. >> if you could get the crowds, you would have done the same thing, but you can't. nobody can. chris: gentlemen, can we move on to the economy? >> yes. chris: the economy is, i think

it's fair to say, recovering faster than expected from the shutdown -- >> much faster. chris: -- in the second quarter. the unemployment rate fell to 8.4% last month, the federal reserve says the hit to growth, which is going to be there, is not going to be nearly as big as they had expected. president trump, you say we are in a v-shaped recovery. vice president biden, you say it's more of a k shape. what difference does that mean to the american people in terms of the economy? president trump, in this segment you go first. >> so we built the greatest economy in history. we closed it down because of the china plague. when the plague came in, we closed it down which was very hard psychologically to do. he didn't think we should close it down, and he was wrong. and, again, 2 million people would be dead now instead of still 204,000 people is too much. one person is too much. should have never happened from china. but what happened is we closed it down, and now we're reopening. and we're doing record business.

we had 10.4 million people in a four month period that we've put back into the work force. that's a record the likes of which nobody's ever seen before. and he wants to close down -- he will shut it down again. he will destroy this country. you know, a lot of people between drugs and alcohol is and depression, when you saw shutting it down, you take a look at what's happening in some of your democrat-run states where they have these tough shutdowns. and i'm telling you it's because they don't want to open it. one of them came out last week, oh, we're going to open up on november 9th. why november 9th? because it's after the election. they think they're hurting us by keeping them closed. they're hurting people. people know what to do. they can social distance, they can wash hands, they can wear masks, they can do whatever they want, but they've got to open these states up. when you look at north carolina, when you look at these governors are under siege. pennsylvania, michigan and a couple of others, you've got to open these states up. it's not fair. you're talking about almost it's like being in prison. and you look at what's going on

with divorce, look at what's going on with alcoholism and drugs. it's a very, very sad thing. and he'll close down the whole country. this guy will close down the whole country and destroy our country. our country is coming back incredibly well, setting records as it does it. we don't need somebody to come in and say let's shut it down. chris: all right. your two minutes, sir. we now move to you. as i said posing the question, the president says it's a v-shaped recovery, you say it's a k-shaped recovery. what's the difference? >> the difference is millionaires and billionaires like him in the middle of the covid crisis have done very well. billionaires have made over $300 billion because of his profligate tax proposal and he only focuses on the market. but you folks at home, you folks living in scranton and all the small towns and working class towns in america, how well you doing? >> well. >> this guy paid a total of $750

in taxes -- chris: sir, you agreed to the two minutes, so please let him have it. >> do i get my time back? he has, in fact, worked on this in a way that he's going to be the first president of the united states to leave office having fewer jobs in his administration than when he became president. fewer jobs than when he became -- first one in american history. secondly, the people who have lost their jobs are those people who have been on the front lines, those people who have been saving our lives, those people who have been out there dying, people who have been putting themself in the way to make sure that we could all try to make it. and the idea that he is insisting that we go forward and open when you have almost half the states in america with a significant increase in covid deaths and covid cases in the united states of america, and he wants to open it up more. why does he want to open it up? why doesn't he take care of the -- he can't fix the economy until you fix the covid crisis.

and he has no intention of doing anything about making it better for you all at home in terms of your health and your safety. school, why are schools open? because it costs a lot of money to open them safely. you know, they were going to give -- his administration was going to give the teachers and school students masks, and then they decided, no, couldn't do that because it's not a national emergency. not a national emergency. navy done nothing to help -- they've done nothing to help small businesses, nothing. they're closing. one in six is now gone. he ought to get on the job and take care of the needs of the american people so we can open safely. chris: all right. your time is up, sir -- >> i'd like to respond to that. chris: well, you both have two minutes, sir. >> excuse me, he made a statement. chris: so did you. >> no, people want their schools open. they don't want to be shut down. they don't want their states shut down. i look at new york, it's so sad what's happening in new york. it's almost like a ghost town, and i'm not sure it can ever recover, what they've done in new york.

people want their places open, they want to get back to their lives -- >> people want to be safe. >> i'm the one that brought back football. by the way, i brought back big ten football. it was me and i'm very happy to do it -- chris: all right -- >> ohio, very proud of me -- chris: gentlemen, we're going to get to your economic plans going forward in a moment, but first, mr. president, as you well know there's a new report that in 2016, the year you were elected president, and 2017 -- your first year as president -- that you paid $750 a year in federal income tax each of those years. i know that you pay a lot of other taxes, but ooh i'm asking you -- but i'm canning you the specific question, is it true that you paid $750 in federal income taxes each of those two years? >> i've paid millions of dollars in taxes, millions of dollars of income tax. and let me just tell you there was a story in one of the papers -- >> [inaudible] >> i paid $38 million one year.

i paid $27 million -- >> show us your tax returns. >> i went -- you'll see it as soon as it's finished. you'll see it. you know what you ought to do? go to the board of elections. there's a 118-page or so report that says everything i have, every bank i have. i'm totally underleveraged because the assets are extremely good, and we have a very, we have -- i built -- chris: asking you a specific question -- >> let me tell you. chris: i understand all of that, i understand all of that -- >> [inaudible] chris: no, mr. president, i'm asking you a question. will you tell us how much you paid in federal income taxes in 2016 and 2017? >> millions of dollars. chris: you paid millions of dollars -- >> millions of dollars. chris: so not some -- >> and you get to see it. >> when? >> chris, relate me just tell you -- let me just tell you it was the tax laws. i don't want to pay tax. before i i came here i was a private developer. i was a private business people. like every other private person, unless they're stupid, they go

through the laws, and that's what it is. he passed the tax bill that gave us all these privileges for depreciation and for tax credits. we built a building and we get tax credits like the hotel on pennsylvania avenue, you get a massive -- which, by the way, was given to me by the obama administration, if you can believe that. now, the man got fired -- chris: vice president biden, you want to respond? >> yeah, i do want to respond. look, the tax code that made him, put him in a position that he pays less tax than a schoolteacher on the money a schoolteacher makes is because of him taking -- he says he's smart because he can take advantage of the tax code. and he does take advantage of the tax code. that's why i'm going to eliminate the trump tax cuts. >> that's okay. >> i'm going to make sure that we invest in the people who, in fact, need the help. people out there need help -- >> yes. why didn't you do it over the last 25 years? >> because you weren't president

screwing things up. you're the worst president that america has ever had, come on. >> let me just say, joe, i've done more in 47 months, i've done more than you've done in 47 year, joe. we've done things that you never even thought of doing -- chris: okay, gentlemen -- >> including fixing the broken military that you gave me. chris: mr. president, we're talking about the economy. i'd like to ask you about your plans going forward because, mr. president, your economic plan, if you were to be elected president, focuses a lot on big government, big taxes, big spending. i want to focus, first, on the taxes. you proposed more than $4 trillion over a decade in new taxes on individuals making more than $400,000 a year and on corporations. president trump says that that kind of an increase in taxes is going to hurt the economy as it's just coming out of a recession. >> well, just take a look at what the the analysis done by wall street firms.

points out that my, my economic plan would create 7 million more jobs than his in four years, number one. and number two, it would create an durable $1 trillion in economic growth because it would be about buying american, that we have to -- we're going to make -- the federal government spends $600 billion here on everything from ships to steel, to buildings and the like. and under my proposal, we're going to make sure that every penny of that has to be made by a company -- chris: but respectfully, sir, i'm talking about taxes, not spending. >> by the way, i'm going to eliminate significant number of the tax. i'm going to make the corporate tax 28%. it shouldn't be 21%. you have 19 companies -- 91 companies federal, i mean, in the fortune 500 who don't pay a single penny in tax making billions of dollars -- >> why didn't you do it when you were vice president under obama? >> because you, in fact, passed that. >> i got it done -- >> yeah, you got it done.

>> our economy boomed. >> the economy -- chris: mr. president, let me, mr. president, let me puck up on that. -- pick up on that. you would continue your free market approach, lower taxeses, more deregulation, correct? >> not lower taxes for the american people. >> excuse me. chris: but in obama's, you're talking about the economy booming. it turns out that in obama's final three years as president more jobs were created, a million and a half more jobs, than in the first three years of your presidency. >> they had the slowest recovery since, economic recovery since 1929. it was the slowest recovery. also they took over something that was down here. all you had to do was turn on the lights and you picked up a lot. but it was the slowest economic recovery since 1929. let me tell you about the stock market. when the stock market goes up, that means jobs. it also means 401(k)s. if you got in, if you ever became president with your ideasing you want to terminate my taxes, i tell you what,

you'll lose half of the companies that have poured in here will leave -- >> half of the companies -- >> they will leave, and you will have a depression the likes of which you've never seen. >> look -- chris: mr. vice president. >> we inherited the worst recession short of a depression in american history. i was asked to bring it back. we were able to have an economic recovery that created the jobs you're talking about. we handed him a booming economy. he blew it. it wasn't -- >> it wasn't booming. it wasn't booming -- >> he blew it. >> it was the weakest recovery finish. chris: sir, is it fair to say he blew it when ors in fact -- >> covid came. chris: when there was record low unemployment before covid? >> yeah, because a what he did even before covid, manufacturing went in the hole. manufacturing went in a hole -- >> excuse me, chris, wait -- >> number two. number three -- >> no, you were on number two. chris, chris, they said it would take a miracle to bring back manufacturing. i brought back 700,000 jobs.

they brought back nothing. they gave up on manufacturing. >> i'm the guy that brought back the automobile industry. cary crust let him -- >> i was asked to bring back chrysler and general motors. we brought them back right here in the state of ohio and michigan. he blew it, they're gone, he blew it. >> ohio had the best year it's ever had last year. michigan had the best year they've ever had -- >> that is not true. >> many car companies came from in germany, went to michigan, went to ohio. >> they're not -- chris: mr. vice president, go ahead. >> and so you take a look at what he's actually done, he's done very little. his trade deals are the same i withdraw. he talks about these great trade deals. he talks the art of the deal, china's perfected the art of the steel. we have the -- >> china ate your lunch 100%. china ate your lunch, joe. and no wonder, your son goes in, and he takes out billions of dollars, billions of dollars to

manage, makes millions of dollars -- >> simply not true. >> why is it, just out of curiosity, the mayor of moscow's wife gave your son $3.5 million -- >> that is not true. >> what did he do to deserve it? >> none of that is true. chris: let him answer it. >> none of that is true. >> oh, really? chris: mr. president? mr. president, please -- >> totally discredited. totally discredited. and, by the way -- >> he didn't get $3.5 million, joe? he got $3.5 -- chris: mr. president -- >> oh, really? chris: it's an open discussion. you've raised an issue, let the vice president -- [inaudible conversations] >> no experience in energy? chris: mr. president -- >> my son did nothing wrong at burisma -- >> i think he did. chris: let him answer. >> he doesn't want to let me answer because he nose i have the truth.

his position has been totally, thoroughly -- >> by who? >> by the media, by our allies, by the world bank, by everyone. it's discredited. matter of fact -- chris: mr. president, please stop. >> testified under oath -- chris: go ahead. i'm listening to you. >> got $3.5 million from moscow -- >> he testified under in his administration and said i did my job and i did it very well. >> i don't know who they are. >> well, i'll give you the list. chris: go ahead, sir. >> you've already fired most of them because they did a good job. >> some people don't do a good job. chris: you get the final word -- >> well, it's hard to get any word in with this clown. excuse me, this president -- >> let me just -- chris: no, no, no, mr. president -- >> that is simply -- >> why did he deserve $3.5 million from moscow? >> here's the deal. we want to talk about families and ethics? i don't want to do that. i mean, his family we could talk

about all night. >> my family -- lost a a fortune coming down and helping out with -- chris: mr. president -- >> this is not about my family or his family, it's about your family -- he doesn't, that's not true, he doesn't want to talk about what you need, you, the american people. it's about you. that's what we're talking about. chris: all right. that's the end of the segment. we're moving on. >> didn't take -- chris: vice president -- >> can i be honest? chris: no. the answer to question is no. sir, sir -- >> that is absolutely not true. >> you're doing it. >> not true. chris: gentlemen! i hate to raise my voice, but why shouldn't i be different than the two of you? >> that's a good point. chris: so here's the deal. we have six segments. we have ended that segment, we're going to go to the next segment. in that segment you each are

going to have two uninterrupted moments. in those two minutes, mr. president, you can i say anything you want. i'm going to ask a question about race, but if you want to answer about something else, go ahead. but i think that the country would be better served if we allowed both people to speak with fewer interruptions. i'm appealing to you, sir, to do that. >> well, and him too. >> well, frankly, you've been doing more interrupting. >> that's all right, but he does plenty. [laughter] chris: sir, let's -- >> he's done plenty. chris: no, less than you have. let's continue on. th issue of race. vice president biden, you say that president trump's response to the violence in charlottesville three years ago when he talked about very fine people on both sides was what directly led you to launch this run for president. >> oh, yeah, sure. chris: president trump, you have often said that you believe you have done more for black americans than any president with the possible exception of abraham lincoln. my question for the two of you

is why should voters trust you rather than your opponent to deal with the race issues facing this country over the next four years? vice president biden, you go first. >> it's about equity and equality. it's about decency. it's about the constitution. and we have never walked away from trying to require equity for everyone, equality for the whole america. but we've never accomplished it. but we've never walked away from it like he has done. it is true the reason i got in the race is most people -- close your eyes, remember what those people looked like coming out of the fields carrying torches, their veins bulging, just spewing anti-semitic bile and accompanied by the ku klux klan. a young woman got killed, and the president said there were very fine people -- >> [inaudible] chris: sir. >> second point i'd lake make is that when floyd was killed,

mr. floyd was killed, there was a peaceful protest in front of the white house. what did he do? he came out of his bunker, had the mail military use tear gas on them so he could walk across to a church and hold up a bible. and then what happened after that? the bishop of that very church said that it was a disgrace. the general who was with him said he, all he ever wants to do is divide people, not unite people at all. this is a president who has used everything as a dog whistle to try to generate racist hatred, racist division. this is a man who, in fact, you talk about helping african-americans, 1 in 1,000 african-americans has been killed because of the coronavirus. and if he doesn't do something quickly, by the end of the year 1 in 500 will have been killed. 1 in 500 african-americans. this man, this man is the savior of african-americans? this man cares at all? this man's done virtually nothing. look, the fact is that you have

to look at what he talks about. you have to look at a what he did and what he did has been disastrous for the african-american community. >> so -- chris: president trump, you have two minutes. why should americans trust you over your opponent to deal with racism? >> he did a crime bill, 1994, where you called them super predators, african-americans, and they've never forgotten it. they've never forgotten -- chris: sir, it's his two minutes. >> i'm letting people out of jail now that you have treated the african-american population, community, you have treated the black community about as bad as anybody in this country. you did the 19 -- ask that's if you look at the polls, i'm doing better than any republican has done in a long time, because they saw what you did. you called them super predators, and you've called them worse than that. you look at your testimony over the years, you've called them a lot worse than that. as far as the church is

concerned and the generals is concerned, we just got the support of 250 military leaders and generals, total support. law enforcement, almost every law enforcement group in the united states, i have florida, i have texas, i have ohio, i have everybody -- excuse me, portland, the sheriff just came out today and he said i support president trump. i don't think you have any law enforcement. you can't even say the word law enforcement because if you say those words, you're going to lose all of your radical left supporters. and why aren't you saying those words,? why don't you say the words law enforcement? because, or you know what? if they called us in portland, we would put out that fire in half an hour, but they won't do it because they're run by radical left democrats. if you look at chicago, if you look at any place you want to look, seattle. they heard we were coming in the following day and they put up their hands, seattle. minneapolis, and we got it back, joe, because we believe in law and order. you don't. the top 10 cities in just about

the top 40 cities are run by democrats, and they've got you wrapped around your finger, joe, to a point where you don't want to say anything about law and order. i'll tell you what, the people of this country want and demand law and order, and you're afraid to even say it. chris: all right. i want to return to the question of race. vice president biden, after the grand jury in the breonna taylor case decided not to charge any of the police with homicide, you said it raises the question, quote: whether justice could be equally applied in america. do you believe that there is a separate but unequal system of justice for blacks in vice president biden: yes there is, there is simmic injustice in this country, in work and in law enforcement. and the way in which it is enforced but look the vast majority of police officers are good decent honorable men and women. they risk their lives every day to take care of us.

but there are bad apples. when they occur, find them they have to be sorted out. they had have to be held accountable. they have to be held accountable. what i will do as president of the united states call together an entire group of people at the white house, everything from the civil rights groups to police officers, police chiefs. we'll work this out. we're going to work this out so we change the way which we have more transparency when these things happen. these cops are not happy to see what happened to george floyd. these cops are not happy to see what happened to breonna taylor. most don't like it. we need a system where people are held accountable. violence in response is never appropriate, never appropriate peaceful protest is. violence is never appropriate. president trump: what is peaceful protest? run through the middle of town and burn down stories and kill people all over the police. vice president biden: that is not peaceful protest. president trump: you say it is.

chris: i promise we get to the issue of law and order in a moment. president trump: fine. chris: this month your administration directed federal agencies to end racial sensitivity training that addresses white privilege or critical race theory. why did you decide to do that to end racial sensitivity training and do you believe that there is systemic racism in this country, sir. president trump: i ended it because it is racist. i ended a lot of people were complaining they were asked to do things that were absolutely insane t was a radical revolution that was taking place in our military, in our schools, all over the place and you know it, and so does everybody else. chris: what is radical about racial sensitivity trainings, sir. president trump: if you are a certain person you had no status in life. it was sort of a reversal. and if you look at people, we were paying people hundreds of thousands of dollars to teach very bad ideas and frayingly very sick ideas.

and really they were teaching people to hate our country. and i'm not going to do that i am not going to allow that to happen. we have to go back to the core values of this country. they were teaching people that our country is a horrible place. it is a racist place and they were teaching people to hate our country. i'm not going to allow that to happen. chris: vice president biden. vice president biden: nobody is doing that. he is racist. president trump: you don't know -- chris: let him finish. vice president biden: the fact is there is racial incense tivity. people have to be made aware of what other people feel like, what, what insults them, what is demeaning to them. it is important to people. no, they don't want, many people don't want to hurt other peoples feelings but it makes a big difference. it make as gigantic difference the way the child is able to grow up to have a sense of self-esteem. a little bit how this guy and his friends look down on so many

people. look down nose on people like irish catholics me grow up in scranton. look down on people who don't have money. they look down on people of a different faith. they look down on people who are a difficult color. in fact we're all americans. the only way we'll bring this country together is bring everybody together. there is nothing we cannot do if we do it together. we can take this on and we can defeat racism. chris: vice president, president trump, sir. president trump: during the obama-biden administration. there was tremendous division. there as hatred. you look at ferguson, many places. look what happened in oakland. look what happened in baltimore. look what happened, frankly more violent what i'm seeing now but the reason is that the democrats that run these cities don't want to talk about you like law and order. you still vangs mentioned. are you in favor of law and order. vice president biden: i am in favor of law and you following it. president trump: are you in favor of law and order?

vice president biden: law and order. chris: let him answer. vice president biden: law and order with justice where people get treated fairly. the fact violent crime went down 17%, 15% in our administration. went went up more on his watch. president trump: went down much more on ours. beat every record in the book. chris: mr. president you're very happy. we will talk about law and order. president trump: democratic run cities. chris: my question, increase in homicides in america, this summer, particularly in cities you blame that on democratic mayors and democratic governors, there are spikes in tulsa and fort worth. the question is this really a party issue. president trump: i think it is a party issue. you can bring in a couple of examples. look what is going on in chicago where 53 people were shot and eight died, shot. if you look at new york where it is going up like nobody's ever

seen anything. the numbers are going up, 100, 150, 200%. crime. vice president biden: republican cities. president trump: he doesn't want to say law and order because he can't he will lose his radical left supporters and once he does that it is over with. if he ever got to run this country and they ran it the way he would want to run it we would have our suburbs would be gone and you would see problems like you never seen before. vice president biden: he wouldn't know a suburb unless he took a wrong turn. president trump: i know suburbs. vice president biden: i was raised in the suburbs. this is not 1950. all dog whistles on racism don't work anymore. suburbs are by and large integrated. many people today driving cuds to soccer practice and black, white, hispanic in the same car, as there anytime in the past. what is really a threat to the suburbs and their safety is his failure to deal with covid. they're dying in the suburbs. his failure to deal with the environment. they're being flooded.

they're being burned out because his refusal to do anything. that is why the suburbs are in trouble. chris: i want to talk about the issue of law and order though. in the joint recommend decision came from the biden bernie sanders task force, you talked about quote reimagining policing. first of all what is reimagining policing mean and do you support -- vice president biden: it means. chris: if i might finish the question. what does reimagining policing mean, do you support the black lives matter call for, for community control of policing? vice president biden: look, what i support is the police having the opportunity to deal with the problems they face and i'm totally opposed to defunding the police officers. as a matter of fact police, local police. the only one defunding in his budget calls for 400 million cut in local law enforcement assistance. they need more assistance. they need when they show up for a 911 call to have someone

psychologist or psychiatrist to keep them from having to use force to be able to talk people down. we have to have community policing like we had before where the officers get to know the people in the communities. that is when crime went down. it didn't go up, it went down. so we have to be engaged. president trump: he doesn't know what he is talking about. he talking about defunding the police. vice president biden: that is not true. president trump: he doesn't have any law, he has no law enforcement -- vice president biden: that is not true. look -- president trump: who do you have, name one group that supports you? name one group came out supported you, go ahead, think, we have time. vice president biden: we don't have time to do anything about it. president trump: name one law enforcement group that came out and supported you? chris: gentlemen, i will take back the moderator's role. i want to get to another subject the issue of protests in many cities that have turned violent. in portland, oregon, especially we had more than 100 straight days of protests which i think you would agree about peaceful

protests many of those turned into riots. mr. vice president, you say that people who commit crimes should be held accountable. the question i have though is, as the democratic nominee, earlier tonight you said you are the democratic party right now, have you ever called the democratic mayor of portland or the democratic governor of oregon and said, hey, you got to stop this, bring in the national guard, do whatever it take but stop days and months of violence in portland? vice president biden: i don't hold public office now. i am a former vice president of. i have made it clear, i made it clear in my public statements that the violence should be prosecuted. it should be prosecuted. anyone who commits it -- chris: but never called for people, excuse me, sir, you have never called for the leaders in portland and in oregon to call, bring in the national guard and knock off 100 days of riots. vice president biden: they can in fact take care of it, if he

would just stay out of the way. president trump: oh, really? oh, really? chris: sir, wait a minute i asked him a question. president trump: killed a young man in the middle of the street. shot him. three days portland wouldn't do anything. chris: president trump, go ahead, sir. vice president biden: by the way his own former spokesperson said you know, riots and chaos and violence help his cause. that is what this is all about. president trump: i don't know who said that. vice president biden: i do? president trump: who? vice president biden: kellyanne conway. president trump: i don't think she said that. vice president biden: here's the point. chris: go ahead. vice president biden: that what he keeps trying to rile everything up. he doesn't want to calm things down. instead of going in talking to people, let's get everybody together, figure out how to deal with this, what's he do? he pours gasoline on the fire constantly, every single solitary time. chris: end this, buttoning up the segment sir, you

repeatedly -- president trump: answer his -- chris: you've been talking before. president trump: he made a statement. i would like to end it. i would love to end it. chris: if you want to switch seats we could do that. president trump: send in the national guard it would be over it would be problem. they don't want to accept the national guard. chris: you repeatedly criticized vice president not calling out antifa or leftist groups. president trump: right. chris: are you willing to condemn white supremacist and militia groups. president trump: sure. chris: they need to stand down not add to violence in number of cities as we saw in kenosha and seen in portland? are you prepared specifically to do it? go ahead sir. president trump: almost everything i see is from the left-wing. not from the right-wing. i'm willing to do anything. i want to see peace. vice president biden: say it. president trump: what do you want to call them? give me a name. who would you like to condemn

them. chris: white -- president trump: stand back and stand by. i tell you what, i tell you what, somebody has to do something about antifa and the left this is not a right-wing. problem this is a left-wing problem. vice president biden: his own fbi director said right wang supremacist. antifa is idea, not a organization. his fbi director said. president trump: kidding me. chris: we're done. president trump: antifa is not idea. vice president biden: everyone in your administration tells you truth is bad idea. you have no idea. president trump: antifa is a dangerous, radical group. chris: we're moving on to the trump -- president trump: over throw you. chris: i will ask a question, when the president seek as second term it is generally a referendum on his record but vice president biden you like to quote one of your dad's saying, don't compare me to the almighty, compare me to the alternative. in this case sir you are the

alternative. looking at both of your records, i'm going to ask each of you why should voters elect you president over your opponent in this segment. president trump you go first. two minutes. president trump: because there has never been an administration or president who has done more than i have done in a period of 3 1/2 years. and that is despite the impeachment hoax. you saw what happened today with hillary clinton where there was a whole big con job. despite going through all of these things. i had to fight both flanks and behind me and above, there has never been an administration that's done what i've done. greatest, before covid came in, the greatest economy in history. lowest unemployment numbers. everything was good, everything was going -- by the way there was unity going to happen. people were calling me first time in years they were calling and saying it is time maybe and then what happened? we got hit. now we're building it back up again. rebuilding of the military, including space force and all of

the other things. a fixing of va, which was a mess under him. 308,000 people died because they didn't have proper health care. it was a mess. we now got a 91% approval rating at the va, our vets. we take care of our vets but we've rebuilt our military. the job that we've done and i'll tell you something, some people may be the most important by the end of the first term i will have approximately 300 federal judges and court of appeals judges, 300. and hopefully three great supreme court judges, justices. that is a record the likes of which very few people, you know one of the reasons i will have so many judges because president obama and him left me 128 judges to fill. when you leave office, you don't leave any judges. that is like you just don't do that. they left 128 openings and if i were a member of his party, because they have a little different philosophy i would say

if you left us 128 openings, you can't be a good president. you can't be a good vice president. but i want to thank you because it gives us almost, probably will be above that number by the end of this term 300 judges it's a record. chris: looking at both your records, why should voters elect you president as opposed to president trump? you have two minutes uninterrupted. vice president biden: under this president we've become weaker sicker, poorer, more divided and more violent. when i was vice president we inherited a recession. i was asked to fix it. i did. we left him a booming economy. and he caused a recession. with regard to being weaker the fact is that i have gone head-to-head with putin and made it clear to take any of his stuff. he is putin's puppy. refuses to say anything to putin on bounty of heads of american soldiers. president trump: your son got a

million dollars. chris: mr. president, your campaign agreed to both sides would get two minute answers uninterrupted. your side agreed to it. why don't you observe what your campaign agreed to as a ground-rule. vice president biden: he never keeps his rule. chris: no. that was a rhetorical question. vice president biden: can you add back 30 seconds. chris: yes, go ahead. vice president biden: we're poorer. billionaires gotten much more wealthy by tune of 3 to $400 billion more just since covid. you and the whole, you got less. you're in more trouble than you were before. in terms of being more violent, when we were in office there were 15% less violence in america than there is today. he is president of the united states. it is on his watch. and with regard to more divided, the nation can't stay divided. we can't be this way. speaking of my son, the way you talk about the military, the way

you talk about them being losers and being and just being suckers, my son was in iraq. he spent a year there. he got, he got the bronze star. got conspicuous service medal. he was not a loser. he was a patriot and the people left behind there were heroes. president trump: really. vice president biden: i resent like hell. president trump: talking about -- vice president biden: talking about my son bo biden. president trump: i don't know bo. hunter got thrown out of the military. was thrown out dishonorably discharged. vice president biden: that is not true. was not. president trump: he didn't have a job until you became vice president. vice president biden: none of that is true. president trump: he made a fortune in ukraine, china, moscow. vice president biden: that is simply not true. my son, my son -- president trump: he didn't have a job. vice president biden: my son like a lot of people, like a lot of people we know at home had a drug problem. he has overtaken it. he fixed it. he worked on it, i'm proud of him. president trump: why was given

tens of millions of dollars. vice president biden: he was not given tens of millions of doll lars. that is totally -- chris: been already. vice president biden: discredited. chris: already been through with this. i think american people would rather hear about more substantial. president trump: so do i. chris: as moderator i make judgment call. president trump: $3 million from mayor of moscow. vice president biden: that report is totally discredited. mitt romney on committee said that report was not worth taxpayer's money. chris: would like to talk about climate change. vice president biden: so would i. chris: forest fires in the west burned millions of acres.