When Producer Ram Bergman Knew Rian Johnson Was a Director Worth Going All-In On

Three years after his PGA Awards nomination for outstanding producer of theatrical motion pictures for Rian Johnson’s Knives Out, Ram Bergman has pulled off another one for its sequel, Glass Onion.

Bergman and Johnson first worked together on the director’s 2005 debut Brick, and two decades later — after hits like Looper and Star Wars: The Last Jedi made them highly sought after — they are now producing titles from other emerging filmmakers under a joint venture with their T-Street banner and studio MRC.

The partnership’s first feature, Fair Play, a romantic thriller about two competing hedge fund employees, became the breakout at Sundance this year, selling to Netflix for $20 million despite little pre-fest buzz. Ahead of the 34th Producers Guild of America Awards on Feb. 25, where the guild also will hand out special honors to Tom Cruise, Mindy Kaling and Michael De Luca and Pamela Abdy, Bergman spoke with THR about why no one ever has enough money to make a movie and why he considers himself “the luckiest motherfucker in the world.”

How would you describe the job of a producer to a 5-year-old?

If the 5-year-old understood the word “initiator,” then I would say that. I still don’t know if my kids, who are 9 and 12, know exactly what I’m doing — or my mom. (Laughs.)

You have been working with Rian Johnson for a while. How do you know when you’ve found a creative partner that you want to go all in on?

First of all, I’m the luckiest motherfucker in the world. I keep saying there are two moments where I knew: When we were doing Brick, the first setup on the first day, it was so clear to me that [Johnson] knows what he wants and can communicate it in a very clear way. The next moment was when we premiered Brick at Sundance and then-programmer Geoffrey Gilmore said that Rian was the best filmmaker at the festival — most people, when they hear that, they start believing the hype and start behaving like it. Rian was exactly the opposite. He didn’t buy into it, he didn’t believe it, didn’t care about it. He just wanted to go back to make movies.

Johnson tells a story about how you were the one to crack the code to get Brick made …

He had been trying for seven years. Different line producers told him the movie’s going to be $1 million or $3 million. When I met him, I said, “This movie is too ambitious; nobody will let you make this movie.” I said to him, “If you want the movie to be in theaters, you have to make it for nothing. If the movie turns out decent, we’ll have more options because there’s less money on the line.” I said, “Go make the movie for a few hundred thousand dollars,” and he asked me if I thought we could do it. I said, “We’ll figure it out.”

How do you balance the creative and business ambitions of your job?

I’ve never told Rian that he should cut a scene or not shoot a scene. Whether it’s on Brick or on Star Wars, there’s never enough money to make a movie. A movie that Rian is writing and directing, it has a certain value in the market. When you look at a movie like Looper, if we can figure out a way how to make a $25 million version, there is no risk on the movie [given the talent]. If the movie turns out good, there’s a real upside, but if the movie doesn’t feel good, nobody’s going to lose money. But the tricky part then becomes how you make the movie for the number. You just roll up your sleeves and you work really hard and say, “I’m not going to compromise anything, and you are going to find whatever creative solution you have to.”

After a run of bigger-budget features, you were back at Sundance with Fair Play, which became the surprise festival breakout.

That’s a very modestly budgeted movie. We are betting on a first-time filmmaker [Chloe Domont]. We shot it in Belgrade and did a few days in New York, because it was too expensive to shoot the [whole] movie in New York for what it was. [Ahead of the festival,] nobody talked about this movie, nobody knew about the movie, but suddenly the movie comes out of nowhere. That’s exactly what I want. I wanted the movie to go under the radar. So many times people are trying to hype movies, and that’s the worst thing ever. You don’t want to build expectations.

Interview edited for length and clarity.

This story first appeared in the Feb. 22 issue of The Hollywood Reporter magazine. Click here to subscribe.