Best collection of Sinatra's work with Harry James? | Steve Hoffman Music Forums

Best collection of Sinatra's work with Harry James?

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by CBackley, Apr 26, 2017.

  1. CBackley

    CBackley Chairman of the Bored Thread Starter

    Is there a good collection of Sinatra's recordings with Harry James? I see there are multiple compilations of his work with Tommy Dorsey, but I didn't see much with Harry James. I'm relatively new to Sinatra, so please forgive me if this question is stupid.
     
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  2. Spanish Prisoner

    Spanish Prisoner Forum Resident

    Location:
    Central New Jersey
  3. CBackley

    CBackley Chairman of the Bored Thread Starter

  4. Spanish Prisoner

    Spanish Prisoner Forum Resident

    Location:
    Central New Jersey
    You're welcome. I believe that this disc is all you need for Sinatra/Harry James studio recordings.

    Sinatra was only with James for a short time before he joined Tommy Dorsey's band.
     
  5. paulmock

    paulmock Forum Resident

    Location:
    Hollywood, CA
    CBackley likes this.
  6. mahanusafa02

    mahanusafa02 Forum Resident

    Location:
    UK
    And expensive...;)
     
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  7. CBackley

    CBackley Chairman of the Bored Thread Starter

    Yeah, tell me about it. The advice on this forum is too good. I now have multiple box sets (including the Big Blue Box), several LPs (both original and reissue), multiple Mastered for iTunes downloads, and a few books.
     
  8. Bob F

    Bob F Senior Member

    Location:
    Massachusetts USA
    [​IMG]
    This CD is the definitive collection, with all (ten) of the studio recordings, a few studio alternate takes, and several live/radio airchecks. You can stream it online:


    Yes. There is a third take, previously unreleased, of Sinatra's first studio recording with James ("From the Bottom of My Heart") in the 2007 Sony/Legacy 4-CD box set, A Voice in Time (1939–1952).

    I can also recommend the 1995 Hindsight Records single CD, All or Nothing at All. This contains 17 additional live/radio aircheck tracks from the estate of Harry James.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2017
  9. Bob F

    Bob F Senior Member

    Location:
    Massachusetts USA
    There are seven live radio airchecks in the 1995 Columbia/Legacy "The Complete Recordings 1939" CD, all marked as "Previously unreleased" in the booklet. However, I believe those appeared first in the 1994 Hindsight Records box set, Bandstand Memories 1938 to 1948. The rest of that 3-CD box contains non-Sinatra material, but it is recommended for exploration of the Harry James band.

    [​IMG]
     
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  10. Bob F

    Bob F Senior Member

    Location:
    Massachusetts USA
    Clarification: Of the 17 tracks on the Hindsight single CD, only 9 contain Frank Sinatra vocals. That makes just 16 live tracks total with Sinatra (including the 7 in the Hindsight box set and/or the Columbia/Legacy CD) which have been restored from the Harry James radio transcriptions.

    Pete Kline, producer for Hindsight, had this to say back in 2003 at the SFF:
     
  11. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff

    I know there's not much out there, but is there a decent source for all of the Hoboken Four stuff? (Or anything else that might qualify as very early Sinatra?)
     
  12. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff

    [​IMG]
    Is there a release -- LP or CD -- of Ciribiribin that doesn't have the beginning clipped off? (Maybe it's just that way on the master?)
     
  13. Bob F

    Bob F Senior Member

    Location:
    Massachusetts USA
    Not sure what you’re hearing? It starts with Harry James’ signature intro, which is short but I don’t think “clipped off.”

    The only other source I have is on this 2-CD reissue of a 1958 Columbia 2-LP set, which starts the same but is drenched in reverb:

    [​IMG]
     
  14. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff

    Thanks, Bob. I ordered this yesterday.

    Do you know if any of the assorted releases of "If I Didn't Care" (the live version on the official Sony releases, July 10, 1939) have a clean start, rather than a fade in?
     
  15. Bob F

    Bob F Senior Member

    Location:
    Massachusetts USA
    79 years ago today!

    [SFF thread:] A Significant Anniversary: July 13, 1939
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2018
  16. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff

    The boxed set has the same fade-in as the Columbia CD.
     
  17. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff

    I was on the road for a few hours today, and brought this boxed set along for the ride. I think it's certainly worth picking up if you're a fan of Harry James -- and there's some fine singing, too, and not just from Sinatra.
     
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  18. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff

    Just found the original 78 on Youtube, and the beginning of the first note is not clipped off like it is on the CD pictured.
     
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  19. Bob F

    Bob F Senior Member

    Location:
    Massachusetts USA
    Is this the one?



    If so, I still don’t hear it.
     
  20. Bob F

    Bob F Senior Member

    Location:
    Massachusetts USA
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2018
  21. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff

    That's the one, yes. The 78 has the full attack on the first note; the CD is clipped off. I'll post a comparison when I can.
     
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  22. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff

    "On a Little Street in Singapore" has the first three beats of music missing on the CD vis-a-vis the 78. :oops:
     
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  23. Bob F

    Bob F Senior Member

    Location:
    Massachusetts USA
    Okay. That one I can hear:



    vs. on the CD: On A Little Street In Singapore
     
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  24. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff

    Re: Ciribiribin

    I heard this LITERALLY the first time I played the CD. For whatever reason, it caught my ear. (Not always the case.)

    To check it today, I put both the CD and the youtube video of the 78 into Protools. (I checked it on a 78 posted at Archive.org, as well, and it correlates with the Youtube-posted 78.) Because I had to get speed as close as possible, I zoomed in and made a cut at the start of the 2nd beat of the song, made a cut, and zoomed in on a prominent snare drum hit near the end, and made a cut. I then compared lengths of those two segments and got 2:17.671 on the CD vs. 2:17.587 on the 78, so speeds were very close, but regardless, I altered the 78's pitch to match the CD precisely (and I altered the entire 78 file by that appropriate amount).

    Once that was done, the beginning of the files looked like this, with blue (top) being the CD and green (bottom) being the 78:
    Screen shot 2018-08-01 at 11.48.30 AM.png
    Harry's first note is circled in red on both versions. The distance between the periods (the spikes within the circles) is .004 seconds. If you look toward the left of the circles, you can see that there are "buildup spikes" as the note commences that are cut off on the blue (CD) file, and it's not just "fluff" -- it's the start of the note.

    Here it is in more detail:
    Screen shot 2018-08-01 at 11.50.00 AM.png
    The space between those little circled blurps is, you guessed it, 0.004 seconds. That's the note's initial emergence from Harry's trumpet, and there is arguably even a little "musical fluff" before that, but those two circled peaks are definitely musical, not just noise, and they are missing on the CD. I'll get audio posted later. Gotta run out for lunch.
     
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  25. Bob F

    Bob F Senior Member

    Location:
    Massachusetts USA
    I never cease to be amazed by your ears, eyes, and attention to detail, Matt.
     

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