Good evening Ross (At least for those of us in Eastern Standard Time) -

I wonder if you could search your memory for me. I was on the High Iron excursion over Memorial Day weekend 1973 between Hoboken and Binghamton. The 2102 was made up as D&H 302. On the train was the dining room portion of a former New York Central twin unit diner (all I recall was that it had stainless steel sides. I don’t recall if it was a Budd or PS built car). This car was coupled to a former NYC diner lounge whose kitchen was used to cook for the dining room car.

Do you recall the history of these two cars, including their ultimate disposition? Do you know what happened to the kitchen-lounge car that went with the dining room car? It’s taken me over 50 years to find the answer to these questions, and I hope you can help.
Thanks

Mike Martino

Sorry Mike, but I don't recall any specifics on those cars at all.

Ross Rowland

Hi Mike
A suggestion, you could try going to the Passenger car photo index,, and maybe the website might??? have the photo you are looking for..
Try looking under the New York Central list,, this is just a suggestion, hope it help in finding the photo...Pat.

I would have been shocked if Mr. Rowland had remembered those specific cars from a one-time excursion over 50 years ago that he was not the the primary driving force behind, just one of the sponsoring participants, using a leased locomotive from another group, operated for another railroad. Are there any D&H history resources that might have information on the train consist? If a railroad historical society put the train consist together, perhaps one of the younger members of the organization might still be around who could shed some light on this? Even they would at least be in their '70s by now.

Are you sure it was NYC and not PRR? According to this post I found, High Iron used an ex-PRR twin unit diner in the late Sixties: https://www.trainorders.com/discussion/ ... 10,4193541 I don't have a TO account so I can't blow up the photos. Originally flat sided but later "modernized" with stainless steel: http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPi ... id=5849590 One is apparently preserved: https://www.flickr.com/photos/127850938 ... otostream/

I also found this, on the Railroad Passenger Car Index that was recommended above by Patrick Fahey http://passcarphotos.rypn.org/Indices/NYC1.htm, one link reads "SMLX 800448 (ex-High Iron, exx-PC 4548, nee-448) Budd dining car, in private ownership. (E. WEISENSEL)": https://www.flickr.com/photos/milwaukee ... 6917881891 According to the caption on the below photo by Marlowe Barnes on Railroad Picture archives: "ex-NYC 448 is a 1947 Budd Built 48 seat diner owned by Dean Levin. It is for sale at a cool $385,000 asking price." (I wonder if IOU Pacific actually handed over $385K, or promised to gladly pay them on Tuesday, see below). There are around ten photos of NYC 448 listed on Railroad Passenger Car Index. And the caption on the top photo by Gary Everhart says: "Originally built in 1947 by the Budd Company for the New York Central as their Diner #448, the car was a stainless steel fluted sides diner with a seating capacity of 50. This car went through several ownerships - Penn Central #4548, High Iron, etc - until it was purchased in 2003 by the Iowa Pacific. It was repainted in a color scheme reminiscent of an Illinois Central pallet. It serves now on private tours like this Fall New River Gorge Excursion." http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPictur ... id=5478961

It is highly probable that the diner in question was the ex-NYC 448 as noted in the posts above.

I do not have my reference sources handy, but the ex-NYC dining room car was also likely a former Budd-built High Iron Co car. This car has bounced around to various RR's and private owners in the last 50 years, but should still be around. I believe it was owned by BC Rail at one time, and may have gone to Ontario Northland, and then to a tourist RR in Canada, where it should still be.

This might be it (bottom photo, Peter Wetzel), only photo I could find with a working link, from when it was BCOL 156: "ONT 907 Savoy - (ex-BCOL 156, exx-B&O 1509, exxx-NYC 473, nee-C&O 1957 Botsford Kitchen) PS corrugated kitchen - dorm. (ONR GALLERY)"

Edit: Or this (top photo, no citation available) most likely, which also ended up on BCOL and ON: "ONT 906 Manhattan, -ex-BCOL 158, exx-WCRC, exxx-Texas Southern, exxx-High Iron Co., nee-NYC 406) Budd twin-unit dining car table car. This car sold Sept. 2015. (ONR GALLERY)"

So, NYC 448 and NYC 406?

Thanks Pat - While I didn't follow your suggestion exactly. I did find a 2008 posting from this site (!) that contained a 1973 EL memo that had the train consist. The car in question was NYC 406, the dining room portion of the twin unit diner. The kitchen-lounge portion was MIA, so an ex-NYC dining car was used as a kitchen for this car. I then consulted the Passenger Car photo index to view a picture of this car.

PMC - Sorry I missed this post. You are correct, the table car was NYC 406. Now, I wonder what happened to the kitchen-lounge? Thanks

Mike Martino

Thanks Topfuel - This forum is great when we have such a collaborative effort. As I mentioned above, I found a 2008 posting in this forum that contained a 1973 EL memo about this fantrip. You are correct. The cars in question were ex-NYC 448 and 406.

Mike Martino

The PRR twin-unit Budd smooth-side diner was used on the 1969 HICO "Golden Spike Centennial Limited", aka "The Blue Train", but I'm pretty sure it was returned to PC along with the three PRR B60 baggage cars. The blue C&O divided coaches showed up in regular B&O/C&O passenger trains, right up to Amtrak day in 1971.

Howard P.

I do remember the PRR twin unit diner we had on the Golden Spike train. We carried a full crew ( Head Chef, Chef, Line Chef, Salad Man, Bus Boy in the kitchen, Maitre'de , Head Waiter, 3 waiters in the dining room, linen table clothes, full silverware service, fresh flowers daily.

Very possibly the last time it was done "really right" ??

Great memories. Ross Rowland

Hi Mike
I just found something that may interest you,, on and Old post on this website going back to 2008,, ...

Also I forgot I had the same information in my library in my old High Iron books,,, but of you would like to read the entire 4 page report put a search on this website,,, as D&H 302 May 1973,,, you should come up with the post by ( el diner)...

Mike you were looking for the consist well here it is,, enjoy, Pat.

HICo also issued bulletins to everybody on their staff that were produced by VP-GM Donald Smith from the Lebanon, NJ HQ and were printed on mimeographed legal sized paper. They were essentially punch lists of "to do" items and manifests preparatory for excursions, and were sent on a regular basis via mail. George Hart had copies in his files as did Frank Hoffman and Jim Laessele. I remember reading them and they were full of details that would today be useful and interesting in tracking down long lost details. Maybe Ross still has copies in his personal HICo archives?

K.R. Bell

Yes, Don Smith was HICO's only full time paid employee who was our Office Manager. He was a frequent user of the mimeograph machine and eventually become known as the " Blue Blizzard" as the mimeograph used blue tinted paper.

He was a master of details and certainly deserves credit for helping our team produce well executed steam trips.

R.I.P. Don. Ross Rowland