R/E/P Community

Where I worked in the UK we had a Tascam 85-16 and an MS-16. We also had an MSR-24, which was the 24-track version of the MSR-16. ...oh, and a room full of Studers...)

Our MS-16 didn't have dbx. The machine was modular; we bought ours without a frame, the transport was one module and the electronics were another. Eventually we added external dbx.

The MS was the best-sounding 16-track that I ever heard from Tascam. -Don't get me wrong, it wasn't up there with the greatest machines, but I did once -for giggles, and with the full enjoyment of the artist- record a demo on one without ANY EQ. -I'd done an 8-hour demo with no time for fussing over things like EQ and the artist liked it, so for his next album demos, he booked into our little room and we spent a week cracking out 16 or 18 tunes, with no EQ on ANYTHING. -It was done to the MS-16. -I thought the stuff sounded wonderful.. amongst the best stuff I ever recorded in fact.

About that time I got hi-jacked and came to the US to record an album that was to take 6 weeks, butthe band had a reputation for working slowly, so I allowed 8 weeks, which should have allowed me to pitch for engineering the REAL album when I got back.

-When the US project over-ran, extended, over-ran and I had to return to the UK a couple of times for short 'breaks' to 'refresh' my immigration visa, I called the artist to see how things were going. They had booked into Rockfield studios in Monmouth to record the album, but scrapped it half-way through... "great-demo-itis" was the cause. Later on it seemed they'd gone to London and had another go at recording it there... Again, they were dissatisfied, but the record company by now was insisting that they put something out, so they released most of the new stuff, -but a few songs were STILL ot lving up to the demo. -Now most of this may have been the 'spirit' of the demo as much as the 'sound', but eventually when the album appeared, three tunes from the demo hadn't been bettered, and were included on the album... and they were all done on the MS-16.

About 3 or 4 years later, the artist released the REST of that demo as an album in it's own right, along with some alternative versions of a couple of other tunes, but in the end EVERY ONE of the tunes from that demo session got released...

While a Studer is undoubtably better, and that session was visited and blessed by an incredible creative muse on everyone's part, the MS-16 will NOT get in the way. If you get a screwed-up sound, it's almost certainly because YOU screwed it up. -Check out Ian McNabb's 'Waifs and Strays' album for most of the demo stuff, and the "Merseybeast" album for the ones that made the main release... 'Too close to the sun' is a wall of acoustic guitars and a big-strong vocal, and very little else, but it was done on the MS-16, and if you can get sounds that strong to come back, then that machine is good enough for auxiliary work, certainly.

Never once had a significant breakdown with it, not in the 6 or 7 years that I had to lok after it, but do beware that Tascam used to be known for butter-soft heads, though those were MUCH better than the crap that they put on the 85-16 that preceded it.

Keith

Thanks very much for the replies Keith and Jim.
I'll look into those albums.

Al

althemusicwizard wrote on Fri, 15 December 2006 03:06

Anybody got any experience with these machines. From what I've read they seem to have a decent reputation for being reliable, and as far as 15IPS go, sound ok too (possibly not with the DBX in though). Main sticking points seem to be the plastic hubs (although it will take metal replacements from another machine), and also recommended to look for one with remote. How does 1" 16 track compare with 2" 24 track sonically, and presumably this machine even without DBX would be a prefered choice over say a 1/2" Tascam MSR16 or Fostex G16S?

These machines could also run at 30 ips ... Dessau, on Murray St in NYC had one (this goes back 13 years to when I recorded a band I was in).

Now, if anyone knows where I can find a 30 ips MS16 so I can transfer those tapes to a computer ...

-a

You can also look around for Tascam's ATR60-16 since it's basically a development of the famous MS16. It includes dbx Type 1, switchable, on every channel and has some electronic improvements over the MS16.
In my oppinion the transport and the transport plate is also far more robust and stable than the MS16's. They're compatible as well, both being the same format.
S/N ratio without dbx is acceptable and usable. It all depends on your machine's alignement and tape used. And recording levels, of course.

I keep using mine (ATR60-16) on a regular basis and, though i've owned it since 1989 i've noticed that i've used it more often in recent years than i did in the years before. It's that "back to analog" trend, i guess.
Still, there's no doubt that everything i record through it gets a very particular sound, hard to define and impossible to replicate with digital gear.
Now the recording path for most first takes in my studio is:
Mic > analog console > ATR60-16 > soundcard > DAW.

The sound i'm getting is better than ever before.

Watch out for the special 30 ips versions of the MS-16. It was an aftermaket fudge fix by Tascam. First off, the heads and gaps are not made for 30 ips. I've worked on both and have a complete set of Audio Precision test results to compare to. The 30 ips version has no low end below 60 hz. The 15 ips version goes down to 25 hz. The 30 ips version cannot be aligned to record/play flat. This is because the record/play EQ was fudged to try and work at 30 ips but the curves are not flat. I found that the best response I could get showed 10k with a 2 db dip. It raised up again at 20k and at 5 k.

In comparison, the 15 ips version was flat like a ruler with just the 110 hz head bump like most other multi track recorders.

If one tries to fit the capstan adapter to do 30 ips, the record/play EQ is still set for 15 ips. You must modify the record/play cards to have any hope of playing back those 15 ips tapes with any accuracy.

yeah  - not knowing any better I bought a 30ips MS16 in 1992. Sounded good, but weak on the lows. I expected a flatter response with a more airy high end. No punch at all, even with decent preamps...