A hub for leftist Star Wars & Shrek memes, because why not. Don’t forget to check the sub rules.
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Try being a Hewish critic of Israel and they all think you’re self-hating Jew…
Try damn near everyone at my synagogue :/
Yes!! Like WTF?? Since when did Israel suddenly get a pass for genocide??
Just throwing this out there but they havent... we've had a concerted effort to stop their genenocide even from the us even tho it's been nowhere near enough. China the UAE and a couple other places are committing genocide with basically no push back from the international community see the rapid response force murdering black Sudanese by the thousands ( couple weeks ago massacred about 15k black Sudanese people) and China imprisoning about a million uyghers and falun gong and "re-educating them.
I’m talking about normal folks going from Israel sympathizing to pro-Israeli-supremacy.
Idk whoa giving Israel a pass besides politicians most people I know even if they support Israel as an idea don't support them doing a genocide...
I have Cousins who are cops and cousins who are military... all of them are pro-Israel
One of my cousins (in the airforce) Is vehemently pro Genocide. told me he "hopes Israel wipes all those Fkrs off the face of the earth"
I don't talk to him anymore.
I know a couple of otherwise pretty progressive people who (a) don’t call it genocide, and (b) think that Israel is allowed more leeway bc the other side started it.
But you don’t give a shit. You are just saying this to deflect attention away from Israel. I don’t know any of those people you mentioned above. I know a ton of Jewish people. I’m in a town with a lot of Jewish people. They’re trying to pass bills to send protestors to Gaza. They have state laws that make state funds contingent on not being a part of BDS.
The only Chinese people I know have fled. They don’t support China. The Muslims chinese are in my area too and are not supporting China. I don’t know anybody from the UAE. Never met anybody from there or the Sudan ever.
Even if I did Israel doesn’t have a pass and you can’t justify their genocide because countries similar to them are doing bad things too. Stop this pro Israel copy pasta bs.
I do actually give a shit thats why I'm bringing it up. If you only care about the one genenocide that's fine but that's just one of the many that deserve our attention. If you can only pay attention to the one in the news idk what to tell you but thats your problem not mine.
lol, it’s copy pasta. I’ve seen this 100s of time. Israel needs to stop killing innocent civilians. Period.
Crazy we change topics to do a full paragraph on China! I love this sub
Did you miss the UAE part in the same sentence lol its not changing the subject it's pointing out hypocrisy in the international community and also a rebuttal to Israel getting a "free pass" because they aren't you have even the us going around Israel to build aid ports and multiple countries cutting ties where as no one bats an eye at China the UAE or Ethiopia
Israel is wealthy and Palestine isn't. That's the thick & thin of it. Governments want rich friends and poor enemies.
If a random country like, Uruguay, had a lobby group with the same funds as Aipac, they'd influence Congress to make it illegal to criticize Uruguay.
Star Wars moderates to the rescue.
This is supposed to be star wars lefties, but it's half full with Star wars shitlibs
Is it actually shitlibs or just people who vote for Biden?
Same thing
Mfs in here deflecting off Israel to talk about China 😭😭😭 lefty sub my ass
great meme! totally agree, i’ve been there too and it’s so ridiculous how people i used to actually be friends can be so susceptible to propoganda
anyway, where is the star wars in this one? am i missing something? seems like a generic/shrek lefty meme
Apparently Star Wars and Shrek memes are both allowed here
So I keep getting different responses.
Is zionism just believing that the Jewish people also deserve a place in their ancestral homeland (this would be me), or is it giving them a pass for genocide (this would not be me).
I'm in the "Israel as the dominant military force in the area needs to take responsibility for the pain they have inflicted on the Palestinian (who are also in their ancestral homeland) people and end apartheid and genocidal practices in the area. There would be no support for terrorist actions outside of a small subsection of religious extremists if the Israeli government worked to uplift the Palestinian people instead of attempting to subjugate them."
Is this a bad take?
Fwiw: that's an excellent take, in my opinion, and an important one to speak up for clearly. All of the inertia in this conflict pushes toward hatred and dehumanization; planting a flag for any two flawed peoples' common humanity is always correct, imo.
Palestine and Israel have the same abstract right to exist, as rooted in the unequivocally equal human value of Israeli life/culture and Palestinian life/culture. I've yet to hear any good reason to hate.
I hope that's considered an acceptable view here, because those are basically my thoughts on the matter as well. Also, the US government absolutely needs to stop funding and supplying Israel years ago.
This is obviously true.
Here's the thing it isn't our ancestral homeland. I'm from Texas. If you wanted to go back further Ireland.
I have a right to live in Israel despite the fact that no one in my family tree has ever set foot there. Meanwhile a person who's family in living memory was ethnically cleansed from the area does not.
Before the creation of the state of Israel in Palestine it was actually debated by Zionists on whether it should be Palestine or somewhere in continental Africa.
Are you a convert/descendant of converts, or do you have ethnically Jewish ancestry?
If you’re ethnically Jewish, you are descended from the Israelites.
Think about the precedent it sets if we put an expiration date on people being native to a land after they were forcibly expelled.
That being said, Palestinians are also descended partially from the Israelites and not “Arab invaders” as many in Israel like to paint them. They are just as native as Jews, and Israel needs to reckon with the Nakba just as the Arab nations need to reckon with expelling the Mizrahim.
In our community whether or not I'm a convert doesn't matter A convert is just as Jewish as someone who's family has been Jewish for centuries. You're actually not even supposed to ask.
I’m only asking in terms of whether or not you’re descended from the Israelites. I couldn’t care less what faith you practice. You could be a Satanic Pastafarian with 2 ethnically Jewish grandparents and still be considered indigenous to Israel.
Indigenousness isn’t tied to religion, after all.
It’s not a bad take in the sense that it would be bad if it happened, but I would argue that such a shift in the minds of Israelis at this stage is not really achievable without a massive change in the balance of power; there is no meaningful pressure currently that would have any hope of achieving this outcome. So, I do think it’s a very, very incomplete take, which just states your desired final outcome, but not what you actually support policywise in order to produce it.
Different people have different definitions of zionism, unfortunately. As a Jew I was always told that it meant that we deserve a place in our ancestral homeland, but a lot of gentiles apparently disagree 🙄
Nope. zionism is the belief that the Jewish faith can be exploited to kill percived enemies.
Zionism is nazism wrapped in a basterdization of the Star of David.
Zionists are a terrorist group. The bitches of the organization should consider their low rank before the US military treat them as willing nazis.
I think it’s a bad take for 1 reason and it may be a slight wording issue.
The Jewish people should be allowed to have a homeland without taking that land from another people by force. They are basically on stolen land which is not forgivable.
I mean, the Jewish people lived in diaspora for millenia and shared that land with the Palestians prior to British intervention IIRC.
Yes so what you are saying is many people loved I. This land not just Jewish people. So if they want a land of their own they need to finds some without an existing population right?
I mean, just like the Palestian people, that is the ancestral Jewish homeland.
I don't agree that Israel should be a Jewish-only ethnic state, but it should be a safe place for both the Jewish and Palestian people.
zions reject the experience of Jews. History is a meme to be ignored in the snouts of these nazis.
They did not, some Palestinians where Jewish. To say that Jewish people as a group shared the land, or that any of the colonists have equal right to the land because some of the indigenous people shared their religion is dumb, it’s equally as accurate to say that “Christians and Koreans share Korea”, and that as an extent every Christian everywhere has an equal right to Korea as actual Koreans.
Christian isn’t an ethnicity. Jews, like Druze or Yazidis, are an ethnoreligious group.
This is so fucking disgusting. The most antisimetic trope there is.
We have more Jews in the US than the nazi state of israel can claim.
It is abhorrent and antisemitic for a zion like you to defend euro-nazi land grabs against Jews.
The zions have gone mask off. No one except out-of-the-closet fascists support israel.
It is crystal clear that israelis are devil worshipping cultists decoted to eradicating Judaism.
As an American, I will oppose zionist terrosism forever.
Really gonna claim that the jews are nazis? That's the most oxymoronic statement, key part moron.
It's not an entirely wrong comparison. :( The dominant current in Israeli politics is a secular ultra-nationalism that borders on fascistic, with droplets of Judaism/religion thrown in there "when it suits their purposes," just like the Nazis did. I try to avoid making the comparison directly (because irony, because Holocaust) but it seems undeniable to me that Bibi Netanyahu is a fascist implementing fascism. Stop the genocide in Gaza. End colonization in the West Bank. Free Palestine.
That being said: "Zionism" is merely belief in the development and protection of a Jewish nation in what is now Israel. Obviously, being Jewish doesn't make someone a fascist. Not all Israelis are fascists. Not all Zionists are fascists.
Stop spreading the propaganda that israelis are the only Jews.
This is my take as well, and if you asked me a year ago what this take was called I’d have said “Zionism” and self identified as a Zionist. Now it seems that revisionist Zionism and kahanism have overtaken traditional use of the word, such that antizionism can be anything from opposing kahanism to opposing any Jewish state being present in the region. Part of the issue is the lack of consistent terminology that causes miscommunication between people who are allies on like 90% of the issue.
What's with the random "is" inserted?
I'm old enough that anyone in my circle inbred enough to be a zionist overdosed 10 years ago.
zionists and party drugs are a funny as fuck combo ten years later.
By definition, a Zionist is someone who thinks Jews need national power if they don't want to be exterminated, thinks post-WWI Palestine was the best place to set up shop for that, and considers self-defense for that project a moral imperative -- I am not a Zionist myself, but I do not hate anyone for feeling differently than me on any of that based on cultural differences, and don't love seeing this sort of content spread thoughtlessly.
Zionists include a dictator in Netanyahu, zealots in the settler movement, military psychos in the IDF, all the bad folks you're picturing -- and they also includes sweet little Jewish grandmothers who you're scaring to death right now for no fucking reason. When you say "Zionist," you're discussing roughly 90% of all Jews.
There's plenty to criticize in the history of how Israel came to be, same as any other government, but I'm sorry: we don't get to be thoughtless and sloppy about it with the Jews. We just don't.
I know y'all ain't trying to hear that you have blind spots around antisemitism, but y'all do have blind spots around antisemitism. Stereotyping a marginalized people based on their worst extremists is just as wrong when we do it to Jews as when we do it to anyone else, and achieving peace in Palestine will be a lot more delicate and complicated than hard binary tribalism.
The person I made the meme about isn’t Jewish and has no Jewish relatives. Most of the fiercest Zionists in the US are not Jewish. My problems with people defending Israel is not a Jew thing because there are a lot of Jews who don’t defend or are actively opposed to Israel, and there are a lot of people who support Israel who aren’t Jewish.
I hear you, and I definitely appreciate where you're coming from politically -- I'm just saying, are we stopping to consider how 90% of all Jews are hearing this stuff right now? Isn't that worth being aware of and a bit more sensitive to on principle, regardless of where we fall on Israel as a state?
Sorry if I'm coming off as confrontational, but I'm seeing Jewish progressives in my life suddenly catching strays, and I'm not down with it. Truly no judgement, just asking for consideration of other povs. ✌️
No Jewish progressives are getting strays from leftists. The problem is Zionism and always has been. Even more stupid is people suggesting that because we don’t want genocide that means Jews wouldn’t be allowed or something. There are Christian, Jewish, and Muslim Palestinians. The point isn’t that jews can’t live there it is that they can’t be colonizers.
You're not speaking from a place of experience or empathy when you say "no Jewish progressives are catching strays," you're speaking from wishful thinking, tbh.
Putting it delicately: there are, in fact, virtually no Jewish Palestinians at all, my friend. Multiculturalism is not simple and easy, it is complicated and hard -- there are real human rights values in tension in Palestine, and no clear good guys anywhere.
Of the three beliefs you listed, the first one implies racial supremacy in government, which is abhorrent. The second is colonialism, also abhorrent. And the third is framing offensive actions as self defense, which is abhorrent because it tries to justify abhorrent actions.
If granny claims to be both sweet and a Zionist then she clearly hasn’t thought about the realities of Zionism at all.
So you're saying that anyone who believes that a Palestinian state should exist is definitionally a racial supremacist?
Well, it's a bit different. The Zionists who created Israel were talking about gathering together, going to another land with people living there already, kicking them out/subjugating them, and then establishing a government that's controlled by this minority group that just inserted itself into the situation. Palestinian liberation advocates are talking about having the people already living in the area to be able to control what goes on in the area. And to be fair, a lot of those advocates attach a religious/ethnic component to who is an invader vs who "belongs" there. But there's still a massive difference between indigenous nationalism vs settler colonialism.
The situations are different because Jews and Palestinians were treated differently before the state of Israel was established. Jews spent 1900 years as a stateless people with no semblance of stability or safety while Palestinians did not.
I'm gonna really push back here, my friend: did you happen to notice that you just called 90% of all Jews abhorrent by default?
If you did then that's a problem, and if you didn't then that's a problem; know what I mean?
And if 90% of Americans supported the Vietnam war I’d call them abhorrent too. It’s about their harmful beliefs, not their race or ethnicity.
Alright then, you abhor 90% of all Jews right out the gate: in the interest of extending you as much charity as possible, though, may I ask who isn't abhorrent in your worldview?
I live on stolen land, and would prefer to do so peacefully -- does that make me abhorrent? Does that make you abhorrent? Who on Earth is the exception to that?
How is the psychodrama of abhorrence useful here, or anywhere for that matter? Years ago I made up my mind that I was not one bit better than the meanest living being on earth -- what good will abhoring anyone do me?
I recall that Einstein considered himself a Zionist too; not because he demanded an Israeli state but because he believed Palestine could be a homeland for Jews, and sent many people who who helped escape Nazi oppression there. He favored a binational state, a dream I think was possible once but a hundred years of conflict have killed. Zionism doesn’t necessitate the oppression and murder of Palestinians, but the nature of Zionism today is led by people who do just that.
Talking about the leaders of Zionism: it's always thorny business sorting an idea from its "leaders," though, don't you think?
Most Jews feel kinship with Israel, yet seriously don't approve of Netanyahu at all; who gets to decide what Zionism is?
By the same token, many Palestinians only want peace and freedom for their homeland, yet Hamas explicitly seeks the destruction of Israel, extermination of half the world's Jews, and erasure of their culture from the world -- who speaks for the "true" Palestine?
Leaders on either side of the conflict are dog shit, imo. 🤷♂️
I feel like it’s very hard to separate a movement from its leaders. Even if they don’t necessarily represent the whole of a movement. I don’t disagree with you but it’s hard to blame protestors for associating Zionism with the current leadership, no? Leadership does play a big role in representing a movement. Hamas leadership is evil, but at least from an American perspective, we’re not upset at our government about Hamas cause we don’t give them missiles.
Ok, but no matter how much nuance leftists express in explaining that criticism of Israel isn't "Anti-Semitism", people still blindly accuse us of it anyway, which trivializes actual Anti-Semitism in the process.
I think we might basically agree on this, but we have to consider the needs of Palestinian children who are forcibly trapped in a warzone just as we have to think about the safety of Jewish grandmothers who live close to the border, and support a human solution that considers the rights and safety of both people.
That being said, the Israeli government clearly has the most power here, so that also means they have the majority (but not 100%) of the responsibility.
"Needs" of Palestinian kids is the operating word, I do think:
Do they need more slapdash antisemitism in the world? No, slapdash antisemitism will not help them build a decent future.
Do they need more violent resistance and/or apologia for violence? No, violence immediately blows back into mass death and suffering for Palestinians every single time without exception, and whoever keeps pushing for it needs to remove themselves from the cause by any means necessary.
Do they need reasonable people in powerful countries effectively advocating for peace? Yes, they need that desperately -- the Left just seems a little too deep in their feelings to show up for that, though, tbh. 😕
Betting OP has a different definition of zionism.
Big part of the problem, imo 😕
Same with “liberal”, “socialist”, and now “fascist”.
Zionism is Jewish nationalism. It's just the belief that a Jewish state should exist. That's what the word means.
Anyone who uses a different definition is either misinformed or dishonest.
Source?
The fucking dictionary.
A Jewish state IN PALESTINE. That’s what zionists all believe in, which is inherently a colonialist idea.
Jews are indigenous to Palestine.
Um, words' meanings can change over time. Zionism may have changed from the belief that a Jewish state should exist to the belief that a Jewish state can do no wrong.
No it didn't. It still just means the belief that a Jewish state should exist.
Zionism existed 50 years before the holocaust. It was set up worth the purpose of creating a Jewish settler colony in Palestine. It deserves the Rhodesia treatment.
Zionists all universally are bad though, it’s extremist, and opposing it is not “no fucking reason”. Like, this same argument you make works for white supremacists, you gonna also defend them because some old Klandma in Virginia was scared of Black Lives Matter? Where’s your stand against the anti racism movement “getting sloppy”?
If your statistic is right, which I doubt, then all that means is that it seems like the Jewish community needs to do some serious introspection. Because support for colonialism is bad, full stop. There is no justification. Colonialism is inherent to Zionism, and it’s inherently a violent thing. Zionism is an equally as awful thing to support as any other imperialist, racist, or supremacist project. Maybe every person who believes in Zionism is not a bad person, most people believe something “bad”, that’s up to you to decide yourself, but Zionism is a bad thing to believe in and it’s bad to try and defend it like this.
Pardon me if this comes off more disrespectfully than intended, but why would I care who you think is "bad," like, at all?
I don't mean that as a personal attack, I just mean that I don't know you, and you don't know what you're talking about -- no offense, but you don't even care enough to look up the statistics you're commenting on, you know?
I never said anything about who I think is bad mattering? Learn to read. I said Zionism is indefensible. It’s a bad thing. And unlike you, I actually do know what I’m talking about, and am not relying on an emotional argument like you are. I don’t go fact check every goon throws out trying to make a fallacious statement look more legitimate.
Learn to read your own first sentence, ding dong:
Thank you for saying this. "Zionist" is a pretty big buzzwork around here and I've been trying to wait for an opportunity to point out this technicality without making myself sound obnoxious. The memes here are great and I enjoy chatting with folks.
But it gets frustrating when leftists online equate ultra-nationalist IDF extremists with moderate and socialist Israelis. Such Isrealis are really the most vocal critics the invasion and have the best chance of actually putting a stop to the genocide, and they just want to exist as Israel in their own state with the UN-established borders.
I think it's important that we speak up about this, even if it means taking some heat -- the Jewish Left, in Israel and elsewhere, have been important allies in all sorts of intersectional struggles, and stridently casting them out seems like a moral and practical disaster.
Holy shit man this sub is full of liberals.
You look silly.
🫵 u rn https://youtu.be/esQgTCOnMyg?si=6HXEmCkdvLpAQg1H
Okay, I kinda saw that coming since I didn't think I had to explain the context but I later realized I did. Post denounces Zionism and genocide, and one of the top replies was "But China!!!" and a bunch of people are here defending Israel. Typical of people thinking that voting for Biden makes you leftist somehow.
Shame
Is this a star wars meme? Lol
So the star wars part is just a name and not a description of the sub?
TIL there are people who don't know there are zionists that don't support the current Isreali government...
Also shit people. A Nazi that didn’t like Hitler was still a Nazi. All Zionists support the colonization of Palestine.