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Why can't people just be whelmed? This subreddit is for discussion, news and fan content related to the animated series 'Young Justice'. Only on HBOMax. No relation to the comic of the same name (except for limited run tie-ins, which are no longer published)


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Character Deep Dive: Etrigan and Jason Blood

All Seasons Discussion

Etrigan and Jason Blood are well known, appearing in popular media such as Justice League and the DCAMU, being a frequent team member of groups such as Demon Knights and Justice League Dark since Flashpoint, so he is a character very much within the fandom consciousness. That popularity has its maledictions for YJ using him, as I'll explain below.


Comic Version: Introduced in the Demon from 1972 by Jack Kirby, here he is the Demon summoned by Merlin to defend Camelot from the forces of Morgaine le Fay, but as the City falls, Merlin deigns to curse the human Jason Blood to contain Etrigan so that Etrigan will be able to protect Merlin's secrets from falling into Morgaine's hands. Rhyming, too was a key thing to the book, but Etrigan didn't actually rhyme constantly. He did for spells and threats, but so did other sorcerers; ranging from Merlin, to Morgaine, to Ugly Meg. Rhyming was simply Kirby's means of working magic in general.

Most of that stays the same throughout his interpretations, but many elements have been built on and changed; even as early as the 80s.

For instance, the rhyming, has become very synonymous with Etrigan - to the degree that most comments from his introductory episode about him were in disappointment that he wasn't rhyming enough. Constant rhyming wasn't Etrigan's thing at inception, and has by no means been a consistent trait throughout his history. In some cases; he is a part of the Rhyming Demons - a Caste system within hell, where his promotion or demotion relies on his continued rhyming and it is something he struggles with. Other times, he only speaks rhyme. Others, he does it exclusively to annoy people. Now the public consciousness thinks that Etrigan needs to rhyme, but that certainly hadn't been the case from his inception.

Over time, Merlin being Etrigan's half brother, both being children of Belial, has been established. This draws on the many tales of Merlin being variably an Incubi, a half faerie or half demon and this being how he aquired his magic. Occasionally, Morgaine is a lover to Merlin, other times her sister Nimue is. Jason Blood, too has been romantically linked with both; with some interpretations and retcons establishing that Jason betrayed Camelot to Morgaine, and that being why it fell - the attachment to Etrigan being a curse for that betrayal. While Demon Knights went to lengths to establish Jason and Etrigan as part of poly relationship with Nimue. Some expansion of the demonic ancestry has been done, with brothers and mothers of Etrigan existing, even Trigon and Raven have been linked to their line - Raven ending up being Etrigan's aunt. Such connections rarely stick or have much done with them however.

Even Jason Blood being Etrigan's human host isn't the constant that many believe it to be. Within the pages of Wonder Woman, within her most well regarded run under the late Perez, it was established that Jason was simply a transformation that Merlin wreaked upon Etrigan, Jason not being a separate entity at all. It was also here, where Jason dated Helena Sandsmark, Cassie's mother.

Jasons role in modern day is typically as an expert in demonology, operating with Gotham, and with a strong friendship with UN delegate Randu Singh, giving him an intersection with modern politics.

The transformation spell, has too gone through revisions to the common perception. Most know "Gone Gone the form of man, Rise the demon etrigan!" which must be spoken by Jason to transform. But, the original incantation is longer, "Change change O form of man, release the might from fleshly mire, boil the blood in heart of fire, Gone gone the form of man, rise the Demon Etrigan!"; and it need not be said by Blood. It was commonly said telepathically or verbally by Randu Singh or Merlin to force the transformation when needed; either because Blood was unable or unable.


Expectations: While nothing in the first three seasons ever pointed towards an Etrigan appearance; unless one considers the UN involvement a tie to Randu and thus to Blood - there had been expectations for him to show up from early on. He was a popular character from his other media appearances and then-recent prominence in the New 52.

As for specific ideas for him; beyond the general showing up, a common thought would be that Morgaine le Fay (also prominent due to Justice League), would be a good candidate for the Light to replace Klarion. Raven as a protege to Etrigan, learning to temper and live with their demonic side, was also a thought - though largely more about Raven's inclusion than Etrigans.


What we Got: With his first appearance; we are taken to Blood's sanctum sanctorum in London, introduced to Blood and the reluctance he has for releasing his "friend", and protective of the particular powerful items within his collection, but he ultimately relents to the Phantom Stranger's argument and we are treated to the full transformation incantation; with the "Boil the Blood in heart of Fire" line taking on excruciating meaning as we see Blood catch alight and suffer through the visceral transformation.

Etrigan, makes clear that he isn't the Noble Demon that has become a popular version, not controlled by Jason Blood from within - he is very much a villainous demon still much like his earlier forms. He is simply controlled by Merlin to do Some good. And he is positively bestial in his actions, movements and voicelines, regularly breaking into cackle at the situation before him. In combat, he displays this behaviour with his fire breath; on both Flaw and Child he targets the head; which didn't work due to their general invulnerability, but on most targets, would not be so lucky. Etrigan, is not a hero to unleash when concerned about casualties or compunctions against killing are in play.

He also makes clear the similarities to Mary Bromfield; speaking of the Other within her - Sergeant Marvel, and teasing her for the similarity to Jason Blood and himself. Given that both Etrigan and the Marvels have both been in the past Distinct Entities and simply personas separated by transformation, it is not clear whether this indicates that Blood is Etrigan, that Sergeant isn't just Mary (as she seems to point to in her Struggle in Teg Ydaer), or just Etrigan playing on that disgust towards himself by noting their inner similarities to make her feel worse about herself and Sergeant Marvel.

We're likely to get more from him in the coming two episodes, I'll update the post if they're substantial enough rather than just extensions of what we've seen. __

Meta Perspectives: There are a few elements to consider for YJ's portrayal of Etrigan and Blood. The first is that YJ tends towards early versions of characters, with the creators not as familiar with works from the past decade in comparison to material from the 80s. We can see this in how Etrigan recites the full incantation and doesn't always rhyme, only when its poignant to. For this reason, overly new elements - such as the relationship with Nimue, the Demon Knights team in general, and the familial tie with Raven are unlikely.

Next, we should note that the creators have a goal of making the heroes not have the prevalent problem within comics of all the characters being American/being from america. Jason Blood, who originated from Arthurian myth, gets transplanted to Gotham in comics because of this trend; giving a lot of Batman/the Demon crossovers. For YJ, Jason is firmly placed in London, connecting him to the history of the character. Rather than the americanisation that is common to other media.

Next, we address the elephant in the room. The Three Keys of Power. Within Blood's study, the Grimorum Arcanum, the Phoenix Gate, and the Eye of Odin, are the objects which Mary is drawn to most. These are clear references to Gargoyles, by Greg Weisman, though of course they cannot be explicitly called such because of them being a Disney owned IP. But, this isn't just a selfindulgent reference. Gargoyles drew heavily on Arthurian myth, much like Etrigan, so it is fitting that the two crossover here. And each artifact of power; when one looks at their abilities and meanings, hold importance which would easily justify their presence. First, the Arcanum Grimorum. Within Gargoyles, this is the spellbook that included the work of Merlin, and was essentially the most comprehensive spellbook of the age. This is essentially the same role that the Eternity Book plays within DC, the book which Merlin created the Etrigan-Blood bond in order to protect from Morgaine's clutches. Next we have the Eye of Odin, a pendant which draws out a persons true form; often being their "inner monster". This holds obvious parallel to both Blood and Etrigan, and Mary and Sergeant Marvel - and it is this artifact which causes Blood to shout at Mary to stop; with him having the most frustration at her for nearly touching it. The final artifact is the Phoenix Gate, which doesn't so much connect to Etrigan as the season as a whole. It is a magical device used for time travel (though it bears mentioning that Gargoyles runs on completely different time travel rules than YJ).


More to Come?: While they're pretty certain to appear in the next two episodes, the establishment of this magical side and group of heroes within YJ does open the door to many more sightings in the future.

The removal of Klarion from this plane of existence in particular, leaves the vacancy that many expected could be filled by Morgaine.

Now as to who the allies that they seek; I'll begin to establishing that Constantine pretty much never interacted with the DC Universe at large or Etrigan with any regularity until the past decade. Constantine tended to remain off in Vertigo, separate. So I don't expect any connection between the two within YJ nor I really expect him at all as his involvement is just too new a thing.

But, Etrigan does have ample allies that would fit. His connection to Randu as a U.N. delegate could easily bring in Tempest and Troia; two characters who are connected to the magical world of DC who share that U.N. involvement within YJ. Helena, whom Blood could easily be dating, bringing in Wonder Girl (who herself is Zeus' child, making Zeus himself a potential show for a "bio dad showing up so that stepdad isn't favoured" dynamic). Blue Devil and Etrigan were often in conflict when they interacted, Blue devils being a lower rank than rhyming demons when that caste system was in play, and Blue claiming the Trident of Lucifer from Etrigan robbing him of that power. Merlin himself, is also easily available, which Etrigan would be loathe to acknowledge.

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Personally I got the impression that Blood and Etrigan are there as a means to entice the audience towards the magic side of DC. He and Phantom Stranger mentioned gathering support so I wouldn’t be surprised to see characters like Deadman or Constantine, perhaps even Swamp Thing.

u/Ashcat99 avatar

Those are very much the "modern" magic group that is pretty much only associated and involved in post flashpoint stuff. Its a very surface level exposure to the magic stuff, repetition of that group rather than delving into the much richer roster of past magic teams and non-team figures.

Its far from impossible to get them, but I expect deeper and better of YJ - in part because of their preferences towards 80s stuff. Hence us having the Sentinels of Magic rather than "Justice League Dark".

I’m not sure I agree. All three were relevant DC characters well before flashpoint. If you meant to say they didn’t become immediately recognizable for the magic side of DC until after justice league dark then you’re right.

May I ask which characters you’d like to see in the future assuming Phantom Stranger is filling up the roster?

u/Ashcat99 avatar

Swamp Thing and Constantine were really mostly relevant to Vertigo, not crossing to DC in general - with few exceptions, till after Flashpoint which was in part to merge the Vertigo imprint into DC main.

I see hundreds of options for magical characters in general, with Stranger leading I'd think more immortals and divinities. From immortal alchemist Ra's and Baron Winters, to Andrew Bennett and Dzamor, to Zauriel and Azar. But worlds the oyster for an omniscient being.

u/suss2it avatar

Not true, Swamp-Thing and Constantine debuted years before Vertigo even became a thing, and Alan Moore’s run on Swamp-Thing (where he created Constantine) was heavily rooted in the DCU at the time. Matter of fact, Swampy, Constantine, Deadman and Etrigan teamed up in that run as almost a precursor to Justice League Dark.

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u/darthvadermort avatar

I'd still rather have Constantine and Swamp Thing. I'd just prefer for them to be portrayed more similarly to their Vertigo counterparts than based on their appearances in the New 52. Hopefully that would also allow for magic characters with powers that don't involve shooting differently colored lasers at one another (yes, Constantine shoots lasers sometimes but he rarely if ever did so in his Vertigo run and in Moore's Swamp Thing)

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u/Grouchy-Ad-6644 avatar

For me: Deadman, Sebastian Faust, Ragman, Tempest (w or wo Troia), Blue Devil, Detective Chimp Nightmaster and Nightshade are all decent possibles based on the comic lineups of the Sentinels of Magic and the related Shadowpact.

Doctor Occult and Sentinel are probably out for similar reasons to Kent Nelson, Raven is a iffy character to just drop in to someone else's plotline, Enchantress seems redundant with Zee and possibly Xanadu in play, Bloodwynd is possible though something of a can of worms, Zauriel is... not impossible after certain elements in the latest episode but IMO has similar if not greater issues than Raven...

u/hikoboshi_sama avatar

Has Jason always suffered when transforming? I don't recall other versions of the character being in so much pain when he transforms...

Also, I didn't know the easter eggs from Gargoyles had thematic significance. I only watched it a bit when i was a kid and i never really got to finish it.

u/Ashcat99 avatar

Not always, the original series was from the 70s in Kirby's artstyle so the kind of emotion and suffering you wouldn't quite get as much as YJ can give in animation, but it was enough to make other people faint while watching him with how gruesome it was meant to be.

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u/suss2it avatar

Omg thank you for addressing the fact that originally Etrigan wasn’t constantly rhyming all the time. That aspect of the character got Flanderized so hard.

Wait. How come raven his aunt?

u/Ashcat99 avatar

They established a connection that Belial was Trigon's son, Etrigan's grandfather. Making Belial into Raven's sister. And thus Etrigan (and Merlin) into Raven's nephews.

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