OOAK Table Tennis Forum

All,

As a long pips player, the wobbling effect is very important. It will cause so much disturbing effect for the opponent. But every time, whenever some one mentioned this factor in a long pips style, there will always be another factor going along with this such the sponge, the rubber, the OX...

But in reality, what caused this wobbling effect ? in blocking, in chopping, in pushing ..etc. to be honest with you, I don't know much about it.


I don't know which shot would create more on this effect and which shot will not. When playing with some players, some of them have a lot of troubles, but some of them was hitting OK with this,

We all know how to create spins, but I don't think the long pips players, like us, would know exactly how to create the wobbling effect of the long pips.

If we can answer those questions, we will be able to create many shots that would cause our opponents to feel like "hell" when playing against long pips. But until then, it is just another rubber with some pimples on it.


Please send in your comments and I think it will be very beneficial for all of us.


Thanks

byluu

The best wobble effect seemed to come from slow balls from an OX LP. It may occur from fast balls as well, but you probably won't see it.

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I find I almost never see balls I have hit "wobble", even when the opponent tells me afterward. The wobble ball is not something you can really set out to create IMO, it just happens when conditions are right for it. I think it tends to happen when there is little or no spin on the ball, but the way the ball was hit has forces on it trying to spin it in different directions, or maybe air currents have some effect as well. I agree with Haggisv, it is generally a slower ball that catches the effect.

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S/U 1: Blade: Bty Gergely . FH Black Andro Rasant 2.1 . BH Red Tibhar Grass Dtecs
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I see a wobble effect as the ball moving in one direction but "shaking", which I agree happens off a ball that is not spinning - as against the ball unexpectedly swerving, for example if you watch the link below, from 2.00 onwards - agree?

All,

As a long pips player, the wobbling effect is very important. It will cause so much disturbing effect for the opponent. But every time, whenever some one mentioned this factor in a long pips style, there will always be another factor going along with this such the sponge, the rubber, the OX...

But in reality, what caused this wobbling effect ? in blocking, in chopping, in pushing ..etc. to be honest with you, I don't know much about it.


I don't know which shot would create more on this effect and which shot will not. When playing with some players, some of them have a lot of troubles, but some of them was hitting OK with this,

We all know how to create spins, but I don't think the long pips players, like us, would know exactly how to create the wobbling effect of the long pips.

If we can answer those questions, we will be able to create many shots that would cause our opponents to feel like "hell" when playing against long pips. But until then, it is just another rubber with some pimples on it.


Please send in your comments and I think it will be very beneficial for all of us.


Thanks

byluu




When the ball carries a considerable amount of spin but little forward momentum, the air resistance will make the ball "break" suddenly in the direction of least resistance. This is easily seem with heavy top or underspin balls returned with LPs but we readily accept is as "normal"... It is when considerable sidespin are present on the balls when we hit with LPs, then we or our opponents are startled by its "erratic" behavior. The "wobble" is actually quite consistent and easily repeatable.

Have your partner serve strong pendulum style to your backhand so you can return it (bump it) with Dtecs or a banned FLP. You will see that the returns will wobble quite visibly, but consistent in pattern time after time. The ball will "break" suddenly in one direction and reverse back a bit when the spin wears off. Gao Jun has told me that the Chinese National Team learned this peculiar behavior of LPs a long time ago, so to introduce "wobble" you must produce plenty of sidespin in your game. Obviously then, the ideal opponent for LP blockers is a strong looper with excellent high-toss pendulum serves. However, if your opponent does not serve with sidespin at all, then you must serve with as much sidespin as possible.

I think working against the incoming spin is most likely to create a 'wobble' effect. I naturally will chop block or block against incoming topspin but if you try to topspin it back with OX LP this is when you are most likely to see the wobble. Also, when receiving chop, chopping back can often create the wobble. Maybe it is because you have essentially taken the spin from the ball, rather than working it back with the spin in the same direction you received it...?

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I agree - if you get the timing right and "brush" over a loop, as against continuing the spin by chopblocking, that's when you see a wobble...

Sir Greg Letts have an article about it here

http://tabletennis.about.com/od/longpim ... le_lps.htm

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All,

I am trying to understand more about the wobbling effect to pips with sponge.

So far I saw most of the wobbling effect would occur to the OX pips. I did see the wobbling occur to pips with sponge but it rarely happened.
The most common things I would see to a pip with sponge was a light ball effect or no spin. The strange thing is it does happen but It just in a certain combination. For instance, when return a side spin serve to my middle, I would dip my paddle down and block right away. This would create a wobbling effect.

If we can come up with a list of combinations which would create such a efefct, that would be so great for the long pips players with sponge.

Thanks

byluu

The sponge will help the ball to bend to the pips, therefore killing the spin..
It is hard to wobble the ball with sponged LP in general unless a very stiff blade is used.

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Recently I read a German article (I forgot which/where, probably on a German forum) which dealt with wobble, arguing that it is a trick played on players by their brains and not an actual phenomenon. The writer argued (if I remember correctly) that according to science objects cannot change their trajectory unless a force is working on them; so if nothing is influencing the ball during its trajectory, it cannot change direction or speed in mid-air. However, players can easily think some balls just do exactly that, for the observation of the ball's trajectory is not continuous, but consists of ascertaining visually 4 to 5 times during its flight the position of the ball and with that information the brain works out the complete trajectory by extrapolation. So players do not actually see the trajectory as a whole, but construct it in their mind, that is, they make a prediction where the ball will be. The prediction is, of course, based on experience. Now, if a ball is "seen" to wobble, what actually is going on is that the prediction fails (that is, the extrapolation does not coincide with the actual trajectory of the ball), and so the ball "suddenly" is "seen" to be at a place where it "shouldn't" be. In other words: the ball does something unexpected. This observation is rationalized by the brain: you think the ball wobbles.
I don't know if this is true, of course, but it does makes sense to me.
Anyhow, logically then, experienced players would make fewer inaccurate extrapolations, so would see less often wobble. If a player has seen every possible return from an LP, he shouldn't see wobble at all anymore. So in order to produce wobble, you should do something unexpected with your LP. Chopping, chop-blocking and pushing will produce returns most opponents will be pretty familar with; but passive blocking or punching spinny balls is something in which quite a few different influences are at work simulataneously and hence are likely to result in trajectories that are difficult to predict - so wobble is to be expected.

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Without opponent, no match.

I've heard this before too Kees. It makes sense in some degrees, although I still find it hard to believe. I rarely see a wobble ball, either created by me or someone else. I will at times get an opponent say "did you see that?" and usually I didn't But I think looking from behind a ball you hit you are less likely to see the wobble because you are busy getting ready to receive the shot back, and also the net obstructs your view somewhat. I have seen balls come at me appearing to wobble, and it sure appears real and not an illusion.

_________________
I'm always in the dark, but the Dark sheds lights upon everything!! Beauty is only pimple deep! Beauty is in the eye of the pipholder!
S/U 1: Blade: Bty Gergely . FH Black Andro Rasant 2.1 . BH Red Tibhar Grass Dtecs
S/U 2: Blade: Bty Gergely . FH Black Hexer+ 2.1 . BH Red GD Talon
S/U 3: Blade: Bty Gergely . No rubbers...thinking of adding Red Dtecs and Black Rasant
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Reb wrote:
So it does to me, but then again I have often seen the spokes of an accelerating wheel or propellor stand still and turn backwards. Also, everybody sees lightning striking down, while it has been scientifically proven that it goes upward. The eye can really be deceived. So can the brain, for that matter (by curved balls, for instance).
What convinced me was that the explanation fits in with the fact that the number of wobbly balls I've seen has actually declined over the last 3 years.
Then again, there may be wobbly balls occurring as the result of sudden airstreams (especially in large halls) affecting the trajectory of slow dead balls - in this the trajectory would really be disturbed. So perhaps the explanation deals only with a certain class of wobble. It would be interesting if someone would videotape wobbling balls and then play back the whole of their trajectories in very slow motion. It is odd that nobody has done that, actually, if wobble is real and can be produced at will.

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Three years ago...hmmmm...that would be right around the time of the frictionless long pips ban.

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Ah, the wobbling balls, I have lately found that when I hit, bump or slightly contact a side, side/top spin balls back using forehand LP OX with a slight side wipe (not chop) action, the ball would wobble over the table, almost most of the time and it definitely is not an illusion.

And my current LP is 755 OX (red).