Archived post. New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast.
Sort by:
Best
Open comment sort options
Best
Top
New
Controversial
Old
Q&A
Help make SquaredCircle safer and more inclusive by using the report button to flag posts and comments for moderator review. If you need to contact a moderator, you can message us here
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.
His neck was trash by the time he joined WWE. The booking wouldn't have much difference, he was on borrowed time regardless
Came here to say this. He took some terrible bumps during ECW, that would probably paralyse some.
He also got overshadowed by the Radicalz jumping over like two weeks later. Whatever momentum Taz had by beating Angle in his debut fizzled out and he never recovered.
Here's the full quote:
and that time Triple H (as WWF Champion) quickly beat Tazz (as ECW Champion) on SmackDown
Comment deleted by user
Dude, the way Dreamer took the Pedigree was incredible.
That was a fun ass match, actually. Surprised they didn't follow through more on that program.
I'm 21, so I really didn't get into wrestling until maybe 2006-2008. Therefore, I never really knew Taz was a wrestler, I always assumed he was an announced, especially after watching Impact with him on commentary. Just watched that video and wow, dude was built like a fucking castle and seemed to be really good at what he did. What are some of his better matches to go back and watch?
Sabu vs. Taz - ECW Living Dangerously 1999
Start there.
Taz Vs Bam Bam Living Dangerously 98 or any other match they had amazing feud.
I'll be sure to check it out. Thanks!
Any of the ECW PPV'S in the 97-98 era are going to have great Taz matches.
I still remember all the lead up to Taz debuting in WWF…just for him to basically do nothing but lose.
Oh didnt know they had cross promotion matches back then
Not exactly. Mike Awesome was the ECW Champion when he unexpectedly signed with WCW so a decision was made for him to lose it. The wired thing about it is that he lost it to a already WWF contracted Tazz, which is why Tazz was able to bring the title to the WWF. Here's the match with the ECW title exchange.
Taz's style was never going to work in WWE. Guys like Undertaker, Kane, Stone Cold, and Rock would have dwarfed Taz in size and they weren't going to allow Taz to drop them on their heads with suplexes like he did in ECW with Sabu.
Heyman was smart in ECW in not putting Taz against guys that were overtly bigger too often. You couldn't do that in WWE, especially in that era where everybody was huge.
That's another reason why Mike Awesome's style never would have worked that well in WCW, even if they didn't give him those awful gimmicks.
What made his style work so well was because he was facing much smaller guys in Japan and ECW. Once he got to WCW, he was no longer the biggest guy on the roster, and I doubt the guys on top like Luger, Steiner, Goldberg and Nash were going to be taking an Awesome Bomb.
They had Taz choke out Paul Varlens who was 3x bigger than he was
Yet, he still had great matches against bigger guys. His matches with Bam Bam Bigelow were awesome.
The day I watched Scotty 2 Hotty refuse to sell a Tazz suplex was the day I knew his days were done.
Lol
Wasn’t that how he was already portrayed in ECW?
Reminds me of Prichard’s story of Bob Holly pitching a storyline for himself.
“Hey, I got an idea! Give me the title!” “Okay, and then what?” “Then I beat everybody!”
Holly: Give me the title or a low card guy gets it! Don’t test me, I’ll whoop one!
Prichard: Nah.
Dupree: So Bob, I heard we are working tonight, do you want to go over the match?
Holly: :)
To be fair, it did work for Taz every time it was actually done.
Everyone wants that gimmick for themselves. Look at the Fiend
Imagine Tazz jumping ship to WWE and debuting in a spooky mask with sock puppets
Is that towards Taz or WWE? Because it actually worked in ECW. Granted, his opponents were typically smaller than top WWE guys, but they didn't have to put him over top guys.
Nothing wrong or unrealistic with what Vince wanted. Payoff could have worked with Taz just like losing his mind and obliterating someone.
Yeah thats not actually the worst idea for a gimmick. Could have at least brought Taz to a big IC Title win if nothing else
Taz in that mid card scene with Jericho, benoit, regal etc would've been pretty dope
I remember reading he was in line to win that belt before he got injured. I was bummed because I was loving Tazz
Comment removed by moderator
There’s nobody in NJPW who can or ever will be able to compare to the star power WWF had at the time. You can’t justify Taz being dominant among Undertaker, Rock, Austin, HHH, Kane, etc.
It's wrestling. If you book him to be dominant against them then he'll be a star.
This guy has never heard of Antonio Inoki
People wanted ecw taz not whatever the hell thought would have worked
Yes there was. Watch stuff like Taz vs the Bossman at No Way Out after the Rumble. They do exactly what Vince wanted and Taz looks like the world's biggest loser getting the absolute shit kicked out of him over and over again
Classic Captain Orange
I think TAZ is one of the few smaller guys that I could believe as an unbeatable monster. Just because he was oh so stocky. Granted, I still think the unbeatable monster gimmick is the worst gimmick to storyline in all off wrestling.
I feel like height is vastly overrated when it comes to whether they're believable or not. Like you said, Tazz was built like a fire hydrant. He was a chode, wider than he is long. It's the same thing with Pac. He's pretty short, but he's so fucking big that it makes sense no matter who he's against.
Taz's offense was based on suplexes. While I have no problem believing he could German suplex some of those bigger guys and maybe belly to belly but T-Bones the Tazzmission plex and stuff the angle seems wrong
Everyone here going "lol fuck Tazz" go watch his debut and see how over he was. Why does it matter if he was small? He had the aura of a killer that people completely believed and they protected that in ECW. They very easily could have drawn money with Tazz. It's just another example of Vince forcing a change because it wasn't his creation.
He was so over it was awesome … it was also NY, too, if memory holds.
Part of what made Tazz so awesome was that he came from ECW, where everyone bumped their ass off for all his suplexes. I can’t imagine the UT agreeing to be tossed like that to a guy he had a foot on
Taker: "Okay, I see what you're saying, but here's my idea for the match. I hit you in the brain with a chair as hard as I can."
Taz: "Okay, then what?"
Taker: "I win. You never win. You never win a match."
Tazz: “So when’s the part where I suplex you all over the ring?”
Taker: “It doesn’t happen.”
Tazz: "What about the Tazmission?"
Taker: "What about I get the gun out of my truck if you ever say that word in front of me again?"
Tazz: “Do I get to have a cool ring entrance, at least?”
Taker: “You’ll be introduced in the ring and you’ll be grateful!”
It was that combination of Taz being able to work his stalky ass off, ECW doing an incredible job of protecting him and making him look like a unbeatable NY badass, and Heyman booking him the way you should your champ at that time. Just a perfect mix in one organization that didn't work at all in another.
Yeah … look at how Mike Awesome changed from ECW, where he could work as a big man, to being just another tall guy in WCW
Comment deleted by user
Angle himself has said that was what he wanted to be until Vince smartened him up on how everything works.
Well yea, that was MSG. I honestly don't remember how over he was outside of the northeast, but basing everything on smart crowds aren't the way to go.
Smart crowd in Manhattan for a guy from Brooklyn
Plus, a crowd that was obsessed with ECW
He didn't want to sell for big guys and just wanted to win in a few minutes. Fuck that. Vince wanted him as an underdog. That doesn't mean jobber.
Yup.
The people going "OH THAT WOULDN'T WORK!!!" like goofs apparently have never seen Ishii wrestle.
Yeah and all they’ve given him is the tag title and the never title. He dominates…on the midcard.
Ishii isn't booked to be dominant nor win dominantly so yes, it wouldn't work still
Also that Ishii isn't wrestling people that are mostly over 6 feet tall.
That’s the thing … Tazz tossing around Tajiri, et al, was one thing because they were all around that same height. Him tossing around Kane like that, for example? Yeah …
Also, Taz was infamous for suplexing people on their neck and heads. No way anyone was gonna want to work against that on an almost nightly basis.
I take it you didn't see his match against Moose this past weekend. It worked perfectly despite Moose being a giant monster with a head and a half over Ishii.
Ishii doesn't dominate anyone, it's always a struggle.
Ishii is booked/presented as a dominant hoss/monster in NJPW.
He's not presented as an underdog that cannot stand up to larger wrestlers.
Yes, he's fantastic at selling and equally fantastic at no-selling. He's not presented as a Daniel Bryan style underdog, which is the point.
I may have missed this monster push Ishi may have had.
Yeah I had no idea who he was when he debuted but I quickly learned everybody should be scared of this dude. It worked. Had the Steve Blackman vibe going.
Steve Blackman also was about the least over guy in the company, despite this sub trying so desperately to meme his popularity into existence
As a ten year old at the time I cannot tell you if he was over. I loved him tho and his hardcore title run was great.
He actually got decently over during his hardcore title run. The stuff he did during matches was genuinely pretty innovative, and he was getting good enough reactions that they booked him in a PPV match.
You're way overcorrecting to the point of making a more ridiculous claim that the one you felt you were disproving. Steve Blackman has been consistently talked about from the time to today as one of people's favorite characters during the attitude area. Was he a merch mover? No. Was he over with the live crowd? About as over as every low midcarder was at the time, a bit more so and able to get good pops from time to time (if we're being generous).
But it's ridiculous to say that people meme Blackman's popularity like they meme Hook's. There is evidence if you look for it that he was always an essemble dark horse.
So McMahon basically wanted Taz to be Ishii but Taz wanted to be Vader I might be with the old geezer on this one
Taz wanted to be Taz from ECW.
That works when you have an ECW roster. No one is crazy tall or ripped to the gills, so Taz can look far more threatening than he actually is. When he went against Kane in the Rumble, he actually looked like a toddler. Also, I mean ECW had dudes willing to take head bumps for no reason at all. No one in WWE was bumping for Taz like that, and he was never the strongest brawler to fit in what was the main event scene at the time
The Taz from ECW had trouble with paychecks...I'm not sure he REALLY wanted to be that Taz.
No no no, he wanted Taz to be Nikki ASH... or Spike Dudley... a loveable loser that never gives up... but also just a loser.
Nikki A.S.H is the women's champion going into summerslam. What are you talking about
You think she's going to retain? Vince only likes the goofy gimmicks for so long.
I see what you saying but ima just gone head and believe my idea cause it's way less depressing lmao
Maybe Taz wanted to be Ishii and Vince wanted him to be Curt Hawkins.
Honestly I think the biggest thing that worked against Taz was the Radicalz falling into the WWF's lap like a week after his debut. Interviews notwithstanding you suddenly had 4 new guys, 1 of whom did a bunch of Taz-style suplexes but was bigger (Saturn) and another guy also worked very Taz-like but better (Benoit).
Now, that said, if the Radicalz don't jump...they booked Benoit to be a dominant or at least non-underdog who went toe-to-toe with top guys. I don't see why height should have really hurt Taz that much if it didn't hurt Benoit. Yes, yes, Benoit was the better "worker" but the WWF was about more than that.
Benoit was just big enough to look believable tangling with guys like Show, Tazz wasn't. Taz and Show actually wrestled and he got Show in the Tazzmission and it looked like Tazz might win then Show fell backwards and the obvious happened. Benoit didnt have an obvious weakness in his arsenal like that
Benoit was only 2 inches taller than Taz, make of that what you will.
Probably because Benoit was just overall better than Taz, plus being taller and looking a lot bigger
Taz didn’t look undersized against Angle. They did what they should have done for one day and then forgot how to do it.
Because Angle is a short dude (for a WWE main eventer)
Right. But against Taker, Kane, The Rock, even Triple H and Austin he would look small af
So did Benoit. But they still manages to make him look credible against Rock. It literally doesn’t matter what size the guy is if you just give them credibility.
Benoit has two inches on Taz and no offense to Taz he the superior wrestler and showman.
Because Benoit was a technical/submission guy, not a guy with an offense entirely predicated on suplexes.
Benoit did multiple Germans every match.
But it wasn't his whole offense and he was bigger than Taz. Are we really pretending to not see why Benoit was pushed more than Taz in WWE?
Taz had a busted neck before going to WWE anyway. If he was pushed into the main event and wrestled, it would've just accelerated his issues.
Also, a big thing to keep in mind, was that Taz worked with guys that were smaller than guys in WCW or WWE. So it was much easier for him to be believable in the context of ECW.
Adolescent me thought Taz was the most dominant wrestler on the planet. I used to stay up late and watch ECW Saturday nights on MSG. When he went to WWF I thought it was going to be the greatest thing in the history of wrestling.
One of my favorite Alvarez lines about Taz was in his TNA Victory Road 09 review saying "... then suddenly out comes Taz, looking completely square"
He looked like and underdog alright: a purse dog. Come on...WWE was the land of the giants.
Basically Taz wanted to continue being Taz from ECW.
That wasn't gonna happen
So Vince and Taz wanted opposite ends of the Ishii coin?