Designated Survivor Debate: Do You Back Kirkman’s Pre-Election Decision?
The following contains major spoilers from the Season 3 finale of Designated Survivor on Netflix.
As Season 3 of Designated Survivor drew to a close — and on the eve of Election Day no less! — sitting POTUS Tom Kirkman (played by Kiefer Sutherland) was presented with quite the ethical dilemma. Given how he rationalized the decision he ultimately made, do you support your TV president? Or was he, in fact (and as self-described), “full of s–t”?
Again, big ol’ spoilers ahead….
The conundrum was born of campaign aide Emily Rhodes’ discovery, on sketchy campaign manager Lorraine Zimmer’s work computer, of an illegally recorded phone call between Republican contender Cornelius Moss and his strategist, Phil Brunton. The exchange seemed to confirm that Moss had no idea that Brunton was behind a truly insidious bio-terror attack that would eventually decrease the country’s minority population via sterilization. Emily came across said audio just as Kirkman was appearing before the press to assert his opinion that Moss was in the loop, as suggested by a surreptitiously recorded video of him discussing the problem of red states turning blue due to a growing minority population.
After seeking legal counsel and then delivering the recording to Kirkman with nary a word, Emily came to realize, come Seth’s press briefing on Election Day, that POTUS did nothing with it. He had no plans to retract or amend his statement against Moss.
In his (weak) defense, Kirkman told shrink Dr. Adam Louden, “What if I was wrong? What if it had been staged and strategically released?” — though the fact that the call was never leaked to the press ran counter to that theory.
Kirkman then argued that, though not directly involved in the genocidal scheme, “Moss is in league with the conspirators in a larger sense,” having “accepted huge amounts of money from one” and “paid a lavish salary” to another. “These men’s views are widely know,” he asserted to his shrink. “Moss knew exactly who he was getting into bed with.”
Lastly, Kirkman contended that Moss did not deserve to win, seeing as he “cynically pivoted” his campaign to battle a sitting POTUS and the (practically invisible) Democratic candidate. “He rebranded himself a hardline conservative, surrounded himself with bigoted zealots…,” said Kirkman. “He didn’t believe in their nativist bulls–t but he knew the hardline conservatives would vote in a bloc… and that might be enough to win.”
But was Kirkman truly punishing Moss for dishonestly representing himself to voters? Or was Kirkman being dishonest with himself?
“I wanted to win,” Kirkman said, after giving the doc’s question due consideration.
But are you, the Designated Survivor viewer, copacetic with how Kirkman won the election and stayed in office? Or did he cross a line that colors your view of him moving forward (into any potential Season 4)? Cast your vote in this poll, then let the debate rage below!
Please renew awesome show never should have been canceled in the first place.
I couldn’t agree more!!! A friend and I stumbled upon the first episode one night and stayed up 13 hrs straight, finally falling into bed. got 4 hrs sleep and got up and hit the play button on the tv. watched until that evening. Today we finished all the episodes and I have to say I was HOOKED BIG TIME. Seems eerily similiar to what were experiencing now and in the recent past….hmmm I understand there was pressure from….? from higher ups to cancel because …well maybe you will come to the same conclusion I did…..crooked
I had been so disappointed at season 2 that I was like, dismayed when it got picked up. So I was very pleasantly surprised. I was very conflicted over Kirkman’s decision. It would almost have seemed better to try and present that argument that, sure, he didn’t know exactly what they were doing, but was the first recording not real? That might have just been where the idea jumped off from, which is bad enough. That he was shocked it went there? Maybe crying fowl a little too late if that call maybe came after the corporate guy was arrested. And speaking of, he might come back to bite Kirkman in the butt.
Since this has zero relevance to reality; my opinion of his decision is irrelevant.
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That being said; he’ll still be POTUS regardless of this futile, faux campaign exercise. After all; the show is contingent upon his being the “Designated Survivor.”
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The show overall i gave a C+.
Not much a fan of the 2 sub arcs involving LGBTQ along with the in your face gay sex romp.
Although i do understand that it’s free from network constraints; the writing could evolve better with the toning down of relentless profanity.
F grade goes to killing off the Hannah Wells character.
YESS! 100% agree!!!!!
omg yes! seriously, she deserved to go out with a heroic bang, at least!
I was really disappointed to lose Hannah Wells; Mike also.
Yeah, same here.
I hated it that Hanna Wells died and that Mike just disappeared into thin.
That almost killed my feelings.
Yes, killing her was not a good idea. We were hoping she would survive that chemical poisoning and explosion.
She was what I thought the reason why I kept watching.
YES! And back in S02 her British counterpart. They were fun. I didn’t like Season 3 – it felt dull, but it was clear part-way through Season 2 that the show was losing its touch. I can’t quite put my finger on it, but I didn’t like Aaron’s girlfriend/wife although I liked her a little bit in the finale. I thought that the mini arc about the gay couple seemed forced, as well as Kirkman’s trans sister-in-law (though the actor was quite good with the material given). Everything old seemed… old again. And I didn’t appreciate Emily’s holier-than-thou aspect. Easily a show that has already been forgotten.
Yes, I feel the same way. She had nine lives though, but was sorry to see her go the way she did.
The sad part being: if it was heterosexual sex scenes, you would probably be fine with it.
Thank you for reminding us that homophobia is still alive and kicking!
You need to understand something. Some people are still adjusting with these types of scenes. while LGBT visibility and relationships are important it does not mean that someone is homophobic because a scene makes them uncomfortable. I am friends with people in the LGBT community and I am supportive of them being able to be open and be given equal rights.. Do I mind if they show some PDA in public? no. Does watching a full-blown sex scene of gay or lesbians on tv make me uncomfterble? yes, it does. Does it mean i am an awful person no it does not. It pisses me off that when people in the lgbt community lash out and vilify people for having feeling and then automaticly call them homophobic when they say nothing verbally mean. People are not bothered by heterosexual relationships because most of the world population is heterosexual. We need to respect each other feelings. if you feel uncomftorble by straight characters sex secenes That perfectly ok. I would not vilifiy you for that because you are a human being with feeling just like everyone else.
hey animegeek, maybe watch less anime and learn how the world works, outside your little cartoon bubble. if it makes you uncomfortable, then don’t watch. simple as that. i don’t watch scary movies b/c they make me uncomfortable. by the way, your spelling makes me “uncomfterble”
Well said AnimeGeek! What you said speaks for a lot of us — who are heterosexual but not homophobic. I will support a man’s right to make love to another man from Here to Kingdom Come (ditto for two women).. but I do not want to watch it.. it makes me very uncomfortable. Then again, I don’t like heterosexual make-out scenes either. I would be happy if sex was only alluded to and not displayed. A kiss (no tongue, thank you) now and then would suffice. Think of it this way.. how would we feel if in real life couples disrobed and went to it at the office?.. in our apartment hallway?.. on our patio?.. on the blanket in front of us at the Fourth of July fireworks? It’s no more enjoyable on the screen than it would be in real life.
Kat and Animegeek, if you’re fine with straight cis sex scenes, but want to limit LGBTQI+-presentation, that pretty much makes you homophobes. If you want to watch shows with no sexual and/or amorous themes of any kind, that’s absolutely fine. But if you want to just portray select types of relationships, that’s a problem. I can understand it’s not easy admitting this to yourself, but either own it or get to work on your insecurities.
Yup. Heidi and Kyle schooled you.
Look in a mirror. What do you see? Homophobia.
If you had gay friends they could confirm this for you… But I’m sure you don’t. Why would you want to be friends with such disgusting people, which is what you believe.
No, we do not have to tolerate your bigoted closed minded hatred.
You are condemned and should be ostracized from civilized society.
Nobody said anything about limiting gay sex scenes, but ai’ll be d—ed if anyone will tell me what I have to watch. I fast forwarded through the gay sex scenes in the show. And yes, the gay and trans story arcs did feel forced, as though they felt they had to touch on every social issue under the sun. Phobia means fear. I am not afraid of gay people. They can do what they like. I just don’t wanna watch them having sex, on TV or anywhere else. Ever.
Wow! Too many series on Netflix promote intimate sexual relationships. Why?? It is not artistic, it does not add to the story, and, in my opinion, promotes purient interests. Are there that many viewers out there that actually enjoy these very explicit sex scenes? Who is really cares a fig about the Very Personal aspects of someone’s sex life?
Agree that cursing was excessive and made the Lorraine character even more deplorable. Thought the “c” word use over the edge.
LOVED the show. Superb acting and all the actors were new to me. Loved them all. Excellent plot lines, great dialogue. Did NOT like Season 3’s F-bombs, etc. Totally unnecessary and added nothing to the show. Nor did the addition of a gay sex scene and a transgender sister-in-law. Assume the creative people on this show are all left wing radicals. BUT ASIDE FROM THAT, this is a wonderful show and the audience hopes that Netflix will reconsider picking it up again with the same actors that we’ve all grown to know and root for – or not – as the case may be. There are so many plot lines left hanging.
The profanity was way over the top for me. Just because you can do it doesn’t mean you should. It changed the whole tone of the office. Who sits down with their boss, whether he’s president or not, and says, “Don’t shoot yourself in the dick?” That was ridiculous. It’s not an episode of the Simpsons.
Agree totally!
I agree with you. The guy’s sex scene was so graphic. Why could’t be a sweet scene, Kissing. Start taking clothes off. Flash forward afterward/next morning in bed together kissing. Then there was all the swearing. these people are suppose to be professionals but it seemed like every second word out of their mouths was profanity. It really turned me off it. Also some of the plot “twists” are so obvious, and with how things were going I was surprised that he didn’t end up sleeping with his sister-in-law. May-be their saving that for season 4. I don’t think I’ll watching another season if there is one.
I too am not a fan of the profanity or the same sex gay romp as mentioned in previous comments. You can definitely tell when Netflix picked up the show after season 2. Our family enjoyed watching it together until Season 3. I miss Alex, Hannah, Mike, Kendra and Lyor. DS had a great cast until Season 3. WHY? WHY? Do you destroy a good thing?
Very disappointed in the breakdown of Kirkman’s moral character especially since held Alex’s feet to the fire and did not want her to give in to the set up. AGAIN WHY CAN YOU NOT STAY ON COURSE? Everyone does not care to hear the f bomb being dropped every other word nor do we care to see sex scenes between heterosexuals or same sex individuals. It is the content of the show we enjoy. DS can address all topics in a morally and descent way. My family will not be watching Season 4 if the language and content doesn’t change .
I agree with you.
I think the amount of profanity is too much.
I cant watch it with my family.
I just finished watching this show tonight, and it disappointed me in so many ways. I totally agree with all that you said. Could not stand the non stop F bombs among other profanity. And that explains it if Netflix picked it up after season 2 why it went down hill. I miss all of the people you mentioned too, and strange how some of them just disappeared, except for Hannah & Alex. Didn’t care for how they had Hannah die off. And why wouldn’t the Presidents son, no matter what, not be there for the grand election night? That just wasn’t right, very poorly done. I was ready to quit watching, especially half way through season 2 and didn’t care for much of season 3! I won’t be recommending this show to anyone.
I totally agree with you. I really liked season 1, my 23 yr old son was watching it with me, but then in the middle of season 2, he lost interest. So I kept watching it, mainly because of Agent Hannah Wells. Really liked her the best. But towards the end of season 2, the profanity went up 100 %. And I did not appreciate the in your face gay sex romp either. Among other things. Was very disappointed with a lot in season 3. Ended on a bummer note I thought.
I was a little dismayed by the sexual content and the language, but O got over it
I would have said fantastic,but I founnd season 3 a little didactic and I am a progressive!
He did right thing and I still think he is a good man and president. the fact he felt bad after doing it prove it, Politics is dirty game and it only make sense that Kirkman would have to cross to line at some point to win the election. He wanted to win but not because of selfish reasons but because he know he can to a lot more good as president, than Moss ever would.
I 100% agree.
The “no-barrier” language put the series much closer to reality. Never have I seen two males going at it on TV. It seems Netflix’s goal was to address every possible issue they could jam into the framework of 10 episodes.
IMO, the campaign manager (Lorraine) was absolutely unbearable. I just did not like her.
As the season closed, there are only three people that know about Kirkman’s untold knowledge of the recording, Kirkman, Emily, and the doctor. Kirkman could very well leave it at that if he can live with himself. Also, it will be interesting to see how the arrest of Lorraine could/will affect his decision.
If there is a season 4: Kirkman needs to get laid. I say that in a respectful way. He and the country need a first lady. Also, it would immediately stoke some new issues and definitely new drama. Think Michael Douglas and Annette Bening in a more serious light.
I thought they were setting him up to have a romance with his sister in law.. there was definite chemistry there.. and that would have been a daring choice.
It would be brave. And there definitely was some chemistry.
I was thinking there might be something between Kirkman and Emily. They are forever hugging each other.
I think that not possible. While Sasha is mentally a female she is still a male physically and Kirkman is not gay.
Actually you are wrong she is a female my brother was my sister he’s physically 100% male not a female physically anymore Sasha is a female
I couldn’t decide if they were going to set him up with Emily or Sasha. It looks like Emily is out of the running. Then I thought they might bring Alex back, since Natascha McElhone’s other show got cancelled. They’ve laid the groundwork by suggesting there could have been a conspiracy surrounding her death.
The show kept evolving and it was the best season yet, despite characters deaths and/or casting changes.
It was the best political show I saw since “The West Wing”. It was didactic in a good way, and tackled fascinating topics. I really, really, really hope it’s gonna be renewed for a fourth season!
Even though I enjoyed the first 2 seasons on ABC, this season was much better. Very topical. I am rooting for a renewal. As to the question of Kirkman’s ethical dilemma all I have to say is WWDD (what would Donald do)?
He would have called it fake news and pardoned Lorriaine.
This was by far the best of the 3 seasons so far of designated survivor. This is what I’ve been waiting for. I hope there is a season 4!
Agreed!
I was kinda hoping they would end the season with the scandal coming out and the democratic candidate beating both of them… but then there couldnt be a new season. As to this issue.. it was really crappy of Emily to bring that to him on the eve of the election.. but Kirkman was right.. it was an out of context clip that could have meant anything.. he should have shown it to the feds though.
Justified. Not enough to say for sure Moss was 100% against it. A few sentences was all we/Emily/Kirkman heard. Plus I think Moss knew Garrett & Phil (especially Phil) we’re power hungry racists d-bags anyway and still kept both around.
Season 3 was the best in that the episodes were topical to the world as we know it..very little fantasy and all fact
Netflix ruined it for me with the horrific language. DS was my favorite show, but not sure i can watch it any more. The first two seasons didn’t have the “f” word like what it was Friday.
Designated Survivor previously aired on ABC. Anyone with a mind would know you can’t swear on ABC. On Netflix there are absolutely no restrictions. No commercials. You can swear. Show sex. Be explicit. Everything. Designated Survivor was more realistic on Netflix with swearing. If you don’t enjoy this show with swearing, then don’t watch.
NBC had it’s share of F words out of the mouths of the St. Louis Blues as they celebrated the Stanley Cup that Doc had to apologize…
It wasn’t just that they were swearing, it was the fact that almost every second word out of their mouths was a swear word. Also with the sex scenes, none of the male/female scenes were graphic at all so why was the guy/guy scene.
My thoughts exactly. Just because Netflix can add F-bombs and sex scenes doesn’t mean they should. Disappointing to me.
I simply don’t understand why movie makers think sticking in the “f” word in every statement makes it a better show. Once in awhile, but for me it shows a lack of decent vocabulary. The sex: I am not crazy about watching men with men, women with women, or men with woman. Now, granted, I am old. But I do remember the day when using your imagination in a suggestive situation was better than watching it. I so like this show and hope they will tone it down a little and get back into the workings of politics. There’s always fast forward.
I’m with you on that.
Agree, series dropped to a new level. Even if the series remained interesting.
I don’t see how anyone could agree with Kirkman not being honest before the election. This will affect so many people, including Emily, as she has all the information and the campaign manager will use her situation with her mother to divert attention or make Emily seem less credible.
I still wish Keifer was making some version of 24 instead of this.
I think there was a small element of 24 in this season when they killed off Hannah Wells. I was surprised when they did that; I expected the scientist to rush in and bring her out. I think the action thread of the show this season was more compelling and scary than in the past. I hope there is a fourth season.
We never saw her body so i kept expecting her to return. That said, her storyline had become so separate from everything else it made sense to end it.
I kept waiting for her to come back too, as I love the actress and her character…
Killing her was a huge shift in focus for the show.
Same here. But it was also like she was on a different show. If they don’t have a good use for her character, I’d rather see Maggie Q move on to something better.
I’m in love with Jennifer Wigmore as CIA Deputy Director Dianne Lewis. I hope she keeps reporting to Tom, if there’s a season 4. They need to keep the conspiracy aspect of the show alive.
Who was moss talking to in that taped conversation? Did it take place before or after the Brunton andDetweiller arrests. If it was before the arrests, what actions did Moss take to inform law enforcement. If it was after the arrests , it is unlikely Moss would have been talking to the arrested perps. Was he talking to someone else who has not yet been exposed.
I loved designated survivor but disappointed so far by season 3 . With Netflix taking over you can see a big change to the left . Using alot more unnecessary bad language and the scene in episode 4 with the gay sex scene was enough for me. Totally disgusted me with the show!
It’s just sex, grow the hell up, for Christ’s sake! They didn’t show anything, it wasn’t a porn scene!
I can’t believe it’s still coming down to this: “oh my god, two men together, I was disgusted”.
Brilliant on Netflix!
Not “perfect”. Just brilliant. Much much better on Netflix than on network television. I didn’t think the language was at all gratuitous, just real.
The show in its 3rd season has found its maturity, its footing. It would be tragic if it were cancelled now. Especially with the 2020 election season next year.
PLEASE renew it for a well-deserved 4th season!!!!
Kirkman should have publicly stated that Moss was not personally involved in the bioterrorist attack. By telling his therapist he did not go public with an exoneration because he wanted to win he made himself as bad as his political opponents. Furthermore, he did so hours before his campaign manager was arrested by the FBI on election night which she tells Emily as she is arrested permanently tarnishes his historic election victory. Had he exonerated Moss he would have taken away much of the stink his campaign manager has placed on him by her felonious campaign tactics.
Moss still loses even if exonerated. His campaign manager and chief fund raiser were arrested just before election day for terrorism, treason and mass murder. And Moss knew and partially shared their racist political views when he attached them to his campaign. His gross incompetence in this matter burns like glowing napalm in the dark! And to top of his massive failure with regard to key member of his campaign the public knows that this man in his 70s has the Alzheimer gene!
Tom Kirkman has become just like every other politician out there and his worst moment of the campaign was his decision not to exonerate Moss. His heroic status as a man above politics who puts country first was forever tarnished by this morally reprehensible decision. He himself recognizes this in the last scene of season three. The last word out of his mouth is to say he feels like **** over his failed behavior.
Best comment yet, Michael. I just finished the entire series last night. A fourth season would be so good….endless possibilities concerning Kirkman’s character moving forward. I sure miss some of the characters.
Love the show and will miss Hannah. And where was Mike? Missed him this season.
I am reminded of a line from season 1 of 24 that Jack Bauer tells Nina:
You can look the other way once and it’s no big deal except it’s makes things easier for you to compromise the next time and pretty soon that’s all you are doing, compromising, because that’s the way you think thing’s are done. You know those guys I busted? You think they were the bad guys? Because they weren’t. They weren’t bad guys. They were just like you and me. Except they compromised . . . once.
better get renewed for season 4 didn’t much care for it on network tv but knew as soon as it hit netflix i’d dig it which is exactly what happened
Tom shouldn’t have released it.
It doesn’t really matter what was in the audio file Emily gave Tom Kirkman. She gave it to him without an explanation, source or context. Moss could have been referring to anything in that snippet of conversation, for all Tom knew. He trusts Emily, but he didn’t know how Emily acquired the file. It was too close to the election for Tom to do his own investigation into the file. Before he released it to the public and press, he needed to check its authenticity and determine who Moss was talking to, when it was recorded, if it was recorded legally, etc. in order make sure he was releasing accurate information and not digging a deeper hole for himself.
On top of that, like he said in the show, the spirit of what Tom said about Moss was correct. Moss is a racist who is in bed with the equivalent of Nazis who are in the middle of enacting their Final Solution on people of color. Moss has maintained plausible deniability, but he knew who these people were. It was right for Tom to denounce him, and all Tom did was state an opinion anyway.
He absolutely made the right decision about the recording.
Disappointed in killing off Hannah Wells and the handling of emily/ aaron indescretion …could of made it more explosive !!
But still love the show ..bring on season 4
Season 3 was the best, personally I liked the swearing and Lorraine. This made the show more realistic, including how Kirkman took the presidency, what? Be honest at last minute? Loved what Lorraine tells Emily, it’s TRUE EMILY CHARACTER is irritating, slept with Aaron, the mom, now called FBI. I prefer Lorraine character more realistic. Now, Hannah death was…? She didn’t make any sense, I mean it was like a complete different character. True, show doesn’t need her, but what an easy death. I found season 1 and 2 irritating, but heard Netflix would take over, good season…finally Kirkman stop his “I’m not sure, I…” doubting himself daily BORING. NOW, I’M INTERESTED!
I agree with you on the show being more realistic, and I am tired of Emily always pretending to be so righteous and then she will go do something bad.I really enjoyed that last scene where Lorraine lambasted her for leaking the information on Moss, sleeping with Aaron and the mom situation, she sure deserved the harsh words. I like season 3, and feel that its an improvement over the last season, I will be looking forward to season 4. I wonder why Mike didn’t return for this season, he was really good in season 1 & 2, I will miss Hannah but her story line felt so disjointed from the show its like watching 2 different shows at the same time, I would have preferred that they write her off a different way, since she traveled abroad last season, they could have kept her there instead of killing her and what a way to kill her.