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Yeah you can definetely tell Griffith wanted someone to ‘control’ in that moment, only thing stopping him was his body being too weak. Casca definetely knew it too. Pretty messed up how even in his hour of need, still saw Casca as merely a tool for him and not her own person.
Also off topic; but damn I feel like Casca and Guts looked perfect in the 97’ anime, none of the other adaptations captured their looks as much.
Dude I know it, Griffith was disgusting here. To me, I imagine Griffith going mad in his head at this moment; almost like a child throwing a tantrum, that level of frustration. And it’s so awful to see him still view Casca as nothing.
Also I wonder if Griffith can ‘feel’ how Casca’s feelings have changed for him. Like Griffith has seen her and Guts relationship after they saved him. But I wonder if he can tell how the way she cares for him isn’t the same as it used to be. When she touches him to change his bandages she no longer wants to care for him as a means to be his woman and someone he’ll rely on, but just simply as a way to care for her captain.
Griffith went mad a while before then, I’d say. There was always the will to power inside him, but I think we should all remember what exactly happened during his imprisonment. It’s not like he just suddenly revealed utter psychopathy out of nowhere. He had the spark and then had [how long again?] of torment to bring it out of him.
Very true I’ve never taken the time to really think about how much he must have gone through during that year of torture. When I say “go mad” I more so just mean like he was freaking out in his head lol like just overwhelming frustration at his inability to be what he once was. The moment Griffith literally went mad and lost himself to that desire to achieve his dream was probably during his imprisonment like you said.
I also remember being confused by that very significant look Griffith gives guts and casca as she bandages his face right after guts fights his way out of the tower of rebirth. I understood it on my second reading as him realizing that they had ties that bound them to each other now, and we're not solely his pawn. Remember how possessive Griffith is over his band of the hawk. Especially over guts. I took the moment in the wagon as evidence that Griffith didn't do all that he did during the eclipse because of demonic influence, but because he was given the power to do it by demons. The desire to control and subjugate/manipulate was always within him.
Damn dude, said it perfectly. “Griffith didn't do all that he did during the eclipse because of demonic influence, but because he was given the power to do it by demons.” I always hate when the Griffith apologist try to justify what he did. We can all understand Griffith (or try to) and why he did what he did, and it’s that understanding that makes me love him as a fictional character because there are like none written better. But as a reader I will never forgive him.
Yeah I feel the same way. I remember reading the eclipse for the first time and being filled with such powerless rage. I wanted and expected the story to go in a completely different direction and I felt as betrayed as guts probably did. At the same time I understand that if everything I'd ever wanted was on the line and I'd already sacrificed SO much for my dream I'd probably be tempted. What's one sacrifice more?
For sure he knew she wasn't into him. His pathetic attempt to jump her bones in his weakened state, he knew he lost to guts. He only wanted casca because guts had her. So gay.
finally someone who thinks as same as me i know griffith did that to casca because of being obsessed over Guts .
Casca was clearly black. She got white washed in the more recent adaptations.
Yeah that always bugged me, I wish they would have kept her skin tone consistent
I always thought she was more Arab or Indian given how her village was really close to the Kushan border
It's all opinion. Fact stands she was still whitewashed.
Wrong.
I am sure of it. That's what she is. Her physique Is like arabian-mediterranean or like the gypsies (Roma people)
If Casca was black she would have curly hair. She doesnt
Black people have all kinds of hair and all kinds of shades. Sudanese would fit this.
I guess you have a misconception of what actually being black is, cause she clearly Is not. She physically doesn't fit the profile that go within the characteristics of what being black actually is. Having naturally curly hair Is one of these undeniable characteristics. There are asians and native americans with darker skin tones than some africans, still they are not categorized as black.
I've always thought that this reaction was temporary affection for Casca and jealousy for Guts (he saw him hugging Casca the moment earlier); something that was his was no longer.
Isn’t this from the 2012 version? I just watched it and the scene is completely identical. But I watched it in Japanese. That English dub is hideous…
I think your referring to the movie trilogy. If I was u, I would watch the 1997 anime (then obviously read the manga from start)
The movie trilogy is alright, but 1997 is generally considered the best adaptation we’ve had
I’ve watched anything available. But was asking because this part was on the movie I just watched. I guess the only difference is the animation.
I don’t do manga… but I own it… lol. I get lost in comic books and manga. I read frames and dialogue out of of order and mess up the context. Usually ruins the experience. But I love the artwork obviously.
Wait, so u read berserk out of order. Doesn’t it ruin the story and characters.
I hope I don’t come across as mean or whatever, but why? Didn’t that kinda ruin what’s considered to be one of the best story’s and character moments in manga
And also, by saying u watched everything available, does that mean u watched the 2016 anime before reading the manga?
No. The soundtrack from 97 is superior. Honestly the soundtrack gets me in my feels. Omfg.
No, the 2012 one is a movie, and part of a trilogy
Yea but it has the same scene frame for frame. I remember it vividly. I just watched it on Netflix a month ago.
Down votes for what? A question? Or that I didn’t like the English dub? Oh no I had an opinion… the English dub voices sounds like it was recorded by a deaf person…. Suck on that. Asshat
2012 is way better animation sorry
It's okay to be wrong
The voice acting is better in 2012 too
It's literally the same people but go off
this scene hurt a lot. Griffith is already creating a communication divide between them that he’s only going to try and cement at the eclipse. Miura really understood the vile and irrational nature of sexual assault and abuse.
Can you elaborate?
People close to you can use their proximity to their advantage, you trust them and simultaneously you are also aware that they trust you with a certain level of vulnerability.
If you’re an empathetic person, some people will try to take advantage of your tendencies to overthink and will actually push you into an overwhelmed state. When you’re in that state, you’re less likely to communicate honestly or openly, especially to those in authority who may seem additionally scary to you now that you feel vulnerable.
This creates a communication divide, where one cannot bring themselves to bring attention to the situation they are in because they are afraid of baring consequences they did not ask for, but at the same time cannot leave the situation that is endangering them, as often this is also the only thing they have known in life.
Griffith understands all of this. It’s why he can’t stand Guts after he heads out on his own. Guts won’t let others use his abusive history against him, so Griffith creates a new trauma in an attempt to subdue his will once again.
Not to sound Griffith apologetic or anything, you’re taking this from a sane POV which Griffith was clearly not in. You realise how does one think after your body/mind has been fragmented time and time again? I really don’t think so, neither will I. My take is that Griffith was thinking in a pure feral state and rejected the pity (as the fall of the great falcon becomes more and more real with each second) not to mention the fact that even Griffith knew nothing about the eclipse at this stage, like he actually tried to off himself short after. I don’t think it’s fair to hold him accountable for this by saying that he “understood” what was happening, if anything no one was more confused than him.
Yes, but I’m afraid that you’re not factoring in that nobody has to care about Griffith. Griffith was in a bad place, yes, and he used this to bring those he cared about down with him. Only because they cared were they in harms way. If Griffith was with a version of Guts or Casca that was ALSO in that feral state, things would have gone VERY differently.
Agree. I more view it as Griffith’s nature is his greed for power. Casca was his first major instrument to that goal along with The Hawks. His failure with lordship and irrational thinking’s means this is a desperate attempt to get any sort of power back with either tools and cash in on what he’s been grooming for so long.
i always found it to be a probable explanation that he's just delirious and threw himself at her with no actual plan. people do weird shit when they're that fucked up. he started hallucinating not long after this, didn't he?
this feels too vague to me to have been something outright malicious. i mean shit in this version he doesn't even do anything, just shakes and stares at her. people are apt to read malicious intent into most of the things he does because of what he becomes later, but he's not quite there yet here
Wow….fuck Griffith.
Yes.
I get you. Clearly that's the scenario
It’s scary to me how much Miura could imply through his panels, but the man definitely knew where he was coming from. This series is not an accident.
uncomfortable, brilliant dyanamic establishement ; potato, patato
He tryed to have sexual time with casca? Did guts understood that if it was?
Not exaclty. He tried to get up by himself but felt over her because he is weak, Casca explains it when she says that he is proud.
If you read the manga you can see that on this scene he is shaking and crying while on top of her.
I always understood it as him wanting some form of control or to dominate someone, especially with his face when it happens and after being the leader for so long and now nothing. I still don’t think he just fell over.
I don't know why he would want that. He never cared about what people would do, only about his dream.
I mean he was a leader with big ambitions, he kinda cared what people did, not as extreme as like a King or dictator of course, they were his family but they also never told him no. But Guts did when he left, so Griff lashed out and went against his better judgement, I agree he was hurt but it was also like someone not getting their way.
Now he's hurt, lost everything he worked so hard to get, and going a little insane from it all. So it's like him trying to reclaim some form of power.
I used to think that's what he was trying to do and i don't as much anymore.
i don’t think so, it seems like that’s what we’re supposed to think, but it’s wrong? like he fell on her snd was too weak to move, snd she just kinda hugs dude for a second lol. idk, scenes leave so much to be insinuated.
It's amazing how "human" this scene feels, it's like I am watching a group of real people and not a bunch kf drawings, this is a testament to the author's story telling capabilities
What was Griffith doing?
I honestly think he tried to have sex with caska. In moments of powerlessness Griffith resorts to sex, since it's an experience he both understands and has control over. Now as we can see here it backfires completely. Unlike that time with Charlotte, Griffith fails to seduce Caska. Not only does Caska not desire him, but he himself is unable to have sex. Its basically his lowest point. He can't fight. He can't speak. He can't even seduce the woman that adored him. He has nothing. And worse of all the people that once worshiped him now pity him.
Dawg, if he still has a penis I'd be surprised. I don't even know if tortured, emaciated skeleton people can even get aroused in the first place.
I don't get it, Griffith is now powerless but why was the woman crying ?
I could be reading the scene wrong but I always took it as Caska being sad about just how destroyed Griffith had become both physically and psychologically. Remember, this was a man she cared deeply about. Or did.
Damn, why people would downvote somebody asking? He isn't insulting anyone.
ikr i was wondering why he got so many downvotes just for asking a simple question? lol
Cause she has to take care of him while she wanted to leave with guts
I really think your right, it's not that Griffith wouldnt Assault her here, it's just that your explanation makes much more sense since he was destined to lose all ambition to start the eclipse.i would like to believe assaulting casca doesn't seem to cross his mind anyway until he was manipulated by the demons into changing his mindset from trying to honor his fallen comrads that put they're lives on the line for his childish dream into a mindset of loathing and hatred.
It’s not outright stated, but the general consensus is that he was attempting to be ‘inappropriate’ to Casca — foreshadowing what happens during the Eclipse. This can be interpreted a number of ways; the first being that he has lost his mind. The second being that he always was in control of what he was doing, and this was just one of many manipulative displays. Casca realises this, which is why she is upset.
You also have a few alternative perspectives, like that he was attempting to stand and merely fell over. This also explains why she was crying. Another I’ve heard here is that she had been planning to leave with Guts, until this happened. Up until this point, she had been leading the remainder of the Hawk for the past year, alone. This was obviously incredibly stressful for her. When Guts returned, he persuaded her that it wasn’t her responsibility. However, upon receiving intel regarding the whereabouts of Griffith, she concludes that she can have both; she’ll leave with Guts, and the rescued Griffith will keep the band together. But, when Griffith falls she is struck by the realisation he will likely never recover, and she has just put even more weight on herself.
I thought he just fell over tbh. But I wondered about the "inappropriate" advances. I didn't notice it as foreshadowing at the time. But that is dope. The only issue I have, is If he was sprialing into his manic downfall and this was apart of it. Why would he warn the Band of the Hawk to stay away right before eclipse happens? Genuinely can't think of a solid reason in my eyes.
Casca had no idea, but we knew considering Charlotte and his later incarnation as Femto.
Anyone unspoiled with lots of empathy could feel the rape-y vibes coming from Griffith in this scene. But, na. He wouldn't do that...would he?
I never liked Griffith
Alpha
Then everything goes to shit. My mind was blown first time watching all these.
Casca is bare handed when she puts her arms around Griffith and then in the wide shot she’s wearing gloves, cannot unsee now
You know what's worse tho? Griffith pressing a leaf to his lips and making a whistling noise, nothing worse than that
Why do I find this comment so funny?
A little bit too late my friend.. you had all your life to make the fucking move..
Griffith here was void. He suffered, tortured, and he prob hated himself. Dead but alive. I think Griffith tried to get acknowledged by casca that he was human. He didn’t want her fixing the water spillage for him because it embarrasses him that she has to take care of him. Casca would of respected Griffith choice before but now she is more his caretaker and I don’t think Griffith wants that so he is trying to convey what he wants with his whole body since he can’t speak. Griffith wants casca to treat him like before; not with pity. So how else would someone Griffith communicate? He was trying to make a point to casca that even tho he was weak, there are things that he wants to choose. Griffith case reminds me of patients that become bedridden after terrible accident, they hate that they r dependent. Griffith was not trying to f casca in my opinion.
Griffith falling over her when he tries to get up by himself and desperately trying to get off Casc while crying... This shows how fuvked up his state was, really terrifying what the causality did to him in order to pit him in a situation where he were tempted to accept the sacrifice...
It is even more terrifying when you know his dark fate. To become Femto, an evil and malignant version of himself.
Maybe I'm naïve with my analysis, but I see this differently from everyone else. Griffith had been tortured for what, years? They rescue him, escape with him while protecting him from battle, and finally stop. This was, I believe, the first peaceful and safe moment he had since being caught outside princess Charlotte's window. I saw this as him needing some sort of comfort after enduring such trauma for so long on his own. Griffith would normally be too proud to admit something like this, and I see this moment as him showing immense vulnerability. Maybe it was more explicitly sexual in the manga and I'm totally wrong.
I made a comment before about the theme of the golden age arc ultimately being about Griffith's textbook narcissism, and used this scene to explain it. I'll try to find it.
yall dont know what narcissism is ..... just stop using the word. A narcissist wouldnt have went in the castle to fight zodd , or to save guts after the 100 men. In fact a narcissist wouldnt have been able to make a squad like the hawks love him that much.
He absolutely would to protect his most useful asset. Narcissistic abuse is completely centered around making the victim love you so that they're easier to control. You don't know what narcissism is.
That’s your viewpoint . But that’s obviously not evident. He looked at guts like a friend as well as casca . That’s the whole problem with the story. If he didn’t view them as friends and truly have some love for them he wouldn’t have been able to use them as a sacrifice.
If he was a narcissist no one would mean anything to him and it would be like trading a apple or grape for god hood.
He also feels guilt after he sacrifices them. The hall mark aspect of narcissism is - lack of empathy - . Remember HE SHED A TEAR FOR HIS TROOPS 🥴
The only reason you’re saying he’s a narcissist now is because his heart is frozen over by his transformation - his power as a godhand is his ability to lack any empathy - now - . But even at this point the infant who has feelings for casca and guts has interfered with even that.
A narcissist doesn’t care about making -you- love them. It’s not about You it’s about - them - , People that try to make you love them , are concerned about you lol. If i buy you 1000 roses I’m not buying them for me. That’s me trying to get you to like me.
Further evidence of all this is him saying guts is the only one that distracted him from his dream. You know why that is ? Because he actually cared about his bro . Narcissist do not care about anybody in a way that sacrifices their intentions
You're confusing narcissism with sociopathy. The things griffith did are trademarks of narcissistic abusers.
Your roses example shows you don't know what you're saying. That is something that narcissists actually do to their victims. It's called hoovering.
Narcissistic personality disorder: a disorder where one has an inflated sense of self-importance.
Most of what you said has almost nothing to do with whether or not Griffith is a narcissist
did u happen to find it?
Apparently my history doesn't go that far back on mobile. I'll get on my pc in the morning.
sounds good! looking forward to it
Eh, must have been too long ago because reddit won't let me go that far back at all. But it was mostly explaining how [SPOILERS] Guts, after he got Griffith's attention as a super useful asset, became Griffith's main supply/asset, which is one of the reasons Casca hated guts so much, as she was the first one and was practically discarded. After guts established how powerful he became and left, it made Griffith feel helpless and desperate to find someone else to use to feel special; enter the princess, which didn't go his way.
The result was that Griffith became even more helpless and resentful, which is shown a lot through his glaring at guts during and after the escape. Then, he hears Guts and Casca talking outside of his wagon and realizes that they've both moved on from needing him and are there to support each other. This is an assault on Griffith's ego. That's when he attempts the weak ass bitch move, which was a hail mary attempt at trying to be in control. Forcing himself on Casca was an attempt at trying to stay in control and making something happen, no matter what it was, because *he* decided it.
When it didn't work, he tried to kill himself and for some batshit reason was gifted with godhood. His first godly decree? Turn Casca into a victim and an infantile burden, which is what he desperately wanted to see her as because that's how, in his mind, she treated him, which was a personal attack. And then he wanted to humiliate and mutilate Guts to make up for the humiliation of being defeated by Guts and for the following mutilation of himself that he blamed Guts for. Finally, he wanted to cuck Guts because he felt that's what guts did to him by 'stealing away' Griffith's other supply. It was a childish display of "haha, you're all my bitches again, I win!"
I don’t think Griffith tried anything sexual here. I feel that with the scene of Griffith’s dream/delusion right before the eclipse, that it’s not Griffith wanting her sexually but wanting to be seen the way he was before. He wants still to believe that he can inspire those around him to help achieve his dream but now things have changed so much and he’s seeing his dream fade. Even Casca says in this very scene that her perception of him has changed, before he was a beacon of strength that comforted her just with a glance but not she stairs at him emotionless. He can tell Casca is distracted by that, it hurts him to see her see him that way and when she’s seems embarrassed to leave him to get more bandages he slumps over and falls. Casca catches him and the look in Griffith’s eyes make it seem as though he’s disturbed and panic. Casca hugging is meant to comfort Griffith not imply they had intercourse. I personally think it’s meant to be tragic but not monstrous.
isn’t this after griffith hears Guts and Caska talking about leaving together? maybe Griffith uses this scene to convey how much he needs Caska; and not being able to speak he just throws himself on her and stares at her. in his own way begging her not to leave? idk i’m new to Berserk so don’t downvote me to oblivion. That’s how it came off to me, cause afterwards she tells Guts she can’t leave and then the carriage takes off.
I'll say it once and I'll say it again. Griffith can kick rocks. And people try to say Griffith did nothing wrong. I will forever despise this character.
Fuck that dude
I don’t know anything about Berserk but I genuinely love art that makes me feel something and I sure felt this