This is a place for fans of various creative works to share theories, interpretations and speculation related to that particular creative work.
here`s how the theory goes:
after the argument where warren almost shoots smithers; warren is told that he will be hung when they get to red rock if he shoots and kills general smithers. knowing that the only way he could legally kill smithers is if it were in self defense; warren devises a plan. he overhears that smither`s son is missing and he doesn`t know what happened to him. warren decides to use that to his advantage. he spins a yarn about how smither`s son tried to claim the bounty on his head but he turned the tables and raped and killed him. of course; this isn`t true as chris mannix points out. eventually; smithers believes the story and attempts to shoot warren; only to find himself on the recieving end of a bullet to the chest.
in the years since the hateful eight`s release; one of the biggest debates in regards to the movie is whether or not warren really did what he said he did. one of the biggest arguments towards it actually happening is that unlike most of the other stories in the movie; we actually see this one play out on screen. well; i don`t think that us seeing it automatically makes it true. it could just be what smithers is seeing in his head as warren tells his morbid tale.
also; you must keep in mind that at it`s heart; the hateful eight is a movie about lies. there is not a single scene in the movie where the truth is not distorted in some way. so; is it really that unbelievable that warren was merely lying to try to get smithers to shoot him?
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I always refer back to the Lincoln Letter. That piece of paper explains Warren's mentality. Warren has the luxury to make up stories and be taken seriously because of his reputation. He takes advantage of that so that others don't take advantage of him. Warren is a smart and calculated character.
While I don’t think it’s unbelievable that Warren was lying, I firmly believe that he truly tortured, raped and murdered Smithers’ son.
And it’s not because of the flashback.
The absolute ice cold way Warren says (paraphrased a little) “The biggest mistake your boy made was letting me know he was your boy”, and how he so casually told Smithers “I never gave him that blanket by the way” makes me think Warren actually did it.
i get what you`re saying but i think there is an argument to be made that the cold way he says it actually confirms that he didn`t actually do it. the combination of telling smithers that he killed his son in such a horrible way and enjoying himself while doing so would make smither more tempted to shoot him.
Hell of a coincidence that this man happened along his son's killer.
A son of a very wealthy man came to claim his fortune - by killing a guy whose nounty had dropped to 5k? Pretty decent money but strange that would be what he meant by claiming his fortune.
It's quite possible it was partly or fully true, but it's a story that Warren has every incentive to lie about, and it being even partly true would be a pretty bizarre chain of events
Think about it; a general dad you want to make proud and especially after losing the war.. any little win they could get…. Pride. But yeah i find it really odd that many people actually think it’s even possible that he made his naked snow crawl to the suckling of big ol’ darkness… these are different times. How many times have you heard in a course in history of the old west that for revenge wan outlaw or a soldier made another man they don’t like suck it literally lmfaooooo
Also he states in the carriage ride, the ones who you don't hear from anymore, ran into (found) him. Right after they pick up Mannix. I thought to mean the ones who looked to kill him were put down and never to be found. The film also, film to confirm. While the other stories may have been embellishments or untrue. The two that were confirmed were Minnie's murder and Chester's.
He knew his full name "Chester Charles smithers) he may not have made him suck his dingus but he definitely killed him
I'm answering too late but, Gen. Smithers tells about his son to the new sheriff
Warren was outside
That was before warren was inside, after he comes inside nothing is said about Smithers son.
He's also got son of a famous man.
Exactly
This is the correct answer. He had too many details. Black hair, middle name. If he was making it all up there’s no way he would nail every detail. He absolutely killed him after making him suck is dingus.
Eh this dude claimed to have the Lincoln letter. Of course he lied about this!
Its funny because Major Warren is romanticizing the hell out of this story. In addition, he asks, "are you starting to see pictures?"
After watching this movie at least 10 times over the course of a few years, I can definitely see Major Warren lying about murdering Smithers' son.
I've watched everyday for at least 5 months. He's telling the truth. He enjoyed telling it because he was proud. Only thing worse is if it was inflicted over multiple days. But like he said, that would be too much work. He was shot in the groin out of all places the bullet could have hit. I wish someone had lived to tell the story.
Bro what
for real, what the fuck dude haha
If hes not watching another movie lets pray for this dude lol
Is he still watching 👀
He was shot in the groin. Interesting point.
I think it is a lie. He places the pistol right next to Smithers before telling the story, making it worse and worse until Smithers finally went for the kill. Too slow.
Would you have spent days in there after finding out. He gave it to him so it would be self defense. Knowing he would be slow. Probably rigged gun not to fire without him knowing how to release safety or trigger. Which worked.
I just finished my first watch of the film and this was my biggest take away. In a film about being hateful, what's more hateful than befriending an enemy just before absolutely ripping their heart out and making them pay for it.
Seems like at first glance it’s just made up to set him off. But on further watching he couldn’t have known what he did. When the talk of his son occurred only a first name was mentioned Warren was in the barn, it was never mentioned again. He also knew the full name of his son which wasn’t disputed. But the deal breaker when he said he pulled his black hair in to suck his dick. He couldn’t have known the hair colour, the old man was grey so no hints there and if say his hair was brown then he knows he’s lying it’s too specific a detail to add into the story without knowing the person.
It was a famous family. Maybe he saw the son at some point, and knew what was really up with him.
I just watched again today and I noticed the same details and I knew u were gonna mention the black hair. On my second view when I caught that I kinda got shocked and ur right warren was in the barn so he probably did kill him but the story does seem to get worse and worse till he finally picks up the gun but it is an awful story after all and a lot of true bad stories are like that
Warren didn’t lie he wasn’t around when they said Chester’s name.
Agreed. That story was as real as the Lincoln letter. - Dingus
Lol a lot of ppl don't want to believe it but he probably did kill his son. I think the story was exaggerated to get Smithers to grab his gun 🤣
I know I’m super late to this thread, but I always took it that you can’t really take anything Warren says at face value. Did he kill Smither’s son? Quite possibly. Did the events play out in the way he portrayed them? Probably not. He was trying to get a reaction. So, he likely embellished or outright lied about a lot of details. As it was proven throughout the film he had no problem with elaborate lies.
Warren said the name of the general's son.
And the general did not complain if this is wrong or not.
Warren is a liar. I wouldn’t be surprised if this was another one of his lies. I would kind of be surprised if it weren’t. However… he was outside, in the blizzard, while Smithers was telling the story of his son.
The black hair he pulled
I think he might have killed his son, and drew out the story and made up the torture and sexual assault to really strike a nerve.
Whilst he seems to have lied about many things to get things done… (protect himself) I do believe he possibly killed his son. Because of his huge bounty… what better way to make his confederate general dad proud than to collect that insanely most wanted black union bounty & make big money? When it comes to the romanticized naked snow crawl & the black dingus being orally consummated … I believe it was obviously a set up for the old man to lose it & so that he may use self defense to get what he wants. Vengeance & revenge. For slavery, torture, war & war crimes against the former slave union soldiers (treating them like or lesser than horses) …. Etc. ….
If he did kill him by chance, There are many ways he could’ve figured out that it was his son… Maybe he thought he could buy/scare his way out & mentioned it … maybe Marquis found proof on the dead body, who knows?
I think if you’re focused on if it’s true or not, you’re missing the point. I really doubt he would make a white man suckle on his big dark dingus. These times weren’t really like that.
Since my first viewing… it was freaking obvious that it was a fantasy/romanticized killing hahaha. How can anyone think he would actually do that?!!!? I guess it’s cause we live in different times now? Idk. It’s pretty logical. Downright magical. You have to understand that back then it was very very frowned upon to be homosexual so it was the most offensive thing he could think of that would definitely make him grace that trap of a revolver.
General Smithers clearly states "If my boy did what he came up here to do, he would of came back home". This implies his son did in fact come looking for Warren and General Smithers knew he came looking for Warren.
Things I dont understand;
Why wouldn't Smithers recognize Warren right away as his sons bounty target?
I love the debate on these things… sadly when artists are asked about topics of this level of debate, the answers usually fail to live up to theory.
For example… I hate Scorceae’s explanation that (spoiler) Leo’s character in Killers of Flower Moon drank the poison because he was in so much denial about what he was doing. Since the reality of Burkhart definitively poisoning his native wife is a matter of debate, so easily could be the contents of the added bottle to the insulin. Why then couldn’t it just be laudenum which would both be lethal over a period of time as well as to achieve the stated goal of subduing Ernest’s wife bringing attention from Washington? The same recovery would have happened if she came off the opioid and Ernest could have ingested it to use it the way countless laudenum addicts of the time did. And the “dosing” focus from DeNiro and the doctors would make sense as well…
Anyway, I digress…
There is only one plausible scenario in which Marquez Warren could be lying about killing Chester Smithers (not the torture although if he killed him there’s no reason to doubt his depiction of the death).
The key lies in Warren’s knowledge of Smither’s full name, “Chester Charles Smithers”.
As one Redditor pointed out already, Warren was outside when Sanford used his son’s full name. Still, if Warren had asked anyone, Like OB for example, about the general they could have let his spoken his full name. Still, that would be an extremely detailed accounting in a casual conversation about the nature of the general’s presence.
And, if you play the extended version of Warren’s, “OB” comment and the two of them walking in stride immediately following Warrens entry and inquisitive looking around the haberdashery you find out he actually is asking OB to help him stack bodies outside after putting away the horses, so the idea he is asking him about the general only works in the edited version.
But in that version, there doesn’t seem to be enough time between his entrance and when he addresses the general, for OB to have identified the general.
My opinion… too much would have to have happened coincidentally for Warren to know Chester Smithers full name if he hadn’t met and killed him.
As for Smithers not knowing Warren as the target of his som’s fortune hunting, that also can be argued by possible and coincidental scenarios… no one uses his name and Chris is interrupted before identifying him to the general. Smithers comment, “the n* in the officer’s uniform”. So isn’t possible Smithers doesn’t make the connection. Sure. Is it possible Chester told his dad he was off to make a fortune out west but didn’t tell him how? Possibly Does Sanford still maybe hold out a slight hope his son is still alive even though common sense tells him not likely? Could be. None of this is answered as to how Smithers wouldn’t just recognize this Uniformed man as the famous Union officer bounty hunter like Chris did earlier…
The thing about art is there are always different takes with no official answer and the best artists resist the urge to answer as they know any answer will never quite be as provocative or appreciated as the unknown.
I know this is an old post but Warren knew his boys name
He was in the stable when the General mentioned his son being missing though