I've found a few articles on the history and breeding of the DS and they indicate that there are unregistered knpv lines and FCI registered lines. Is one group favored over the other for real world military or police work? Do the KNPV unregistered lines have any breeding advantage due to a broader range of mate prospects, which may include FCI or even other breeds? I'm curious on how similar or different the two groups are within the DS breed.
Dutch Shepherd KNPV vs FCI Breeding
totally different...very harshly said: they only have their brindle in common.
Have to go to work, will answer later.
Have to go to work, will answer later.
generally speaking:
FCI registered HH's: appear thinner and more frail. their chest's aren't as deep and their head's aren't as big. these dogs are not unlike showline GSD's. they are generally bred for looks/conformation first and working ability is a distant second (if at all).
yes, there are FCI registered HH's competing in KNPV, but one look at those dogs will tell you their pedigrees may not be very accurate/truthful.
FCI registered HH's: appear thinner and more frail. their chest's aren't as deep and their head's aren't as big. these dogs are not unlike showline GSD's. they are generally bred for looks/conformation first and working ability is a distant second (if at all).
yes, there are FCI registered HH's competing in KNPV, but one look at those dogs will tell you their pedigrees may not be very accurate/truthful.
Gerben Kamphuis wrote a nice article describing the developement of the breed and the differences between the KNPV dogs and the FCI dogs...
http://members.home.nl/mechelaar32/hh-history.htm
http://members.home.nl/mechelaar32/hh-history.htm
Thanks. That does go into more detail than other articles I've read. My impression is for working pursuits it is better to stay away from FCI registered dogs.
KNPV Malinois and Dutch Shepherds are regularly "mixed' with each other. Oftentimes breedings will result in part of the litter being brindle and part of the litter being fawn. In litters such as this the brindle dogs are labeled as Dutch Shepherds and the Fawn dogs as Malinos.
KNPV dogs are a breed of their own. They have been bred for so long that there are established bloodlines and trends in breeding. but because crossing does take place they can't be registered with an official registry. It's not like the guy down the road that breeds his labrador to someone elses poodle because both the dogs have the temperament they are looking for. The pedigrees aren't registered, but they can be tracked easily and most of them are complete and/or accurate. They are also still recognizable breeds. Its not like a cockapoo or something. The dogs are Mal's and Dutchies and GSD's and whatever else is being bred in KNPV, the bloodlines just aren't pure. Its not like they created the Dutch KNPV Italian Greywolf Shepherdale or something like that. Although I think that would be a really cool mix myself.
motly what I would have said, is already said.
for pics, check my site, for bloodlines (of our dogs) check www.bloedlijnen.nl, search for van leeuwen, scherpenzeel and you'll find all my dogs incl. their bloodline and pics.
first not regristred dogs were after the world wars, no money for registering and the dog wouldn't work less with or without papers. Heyy we're dutch, remember?? :mrgreen:
for pics, check my site, for bloodlines (of our dogs) check www.bloedlijnen.nl, search for van leeuwen, scherpenzeel and you'll find all my dogs incl. their bloodline and pics.
first not regristred dogs were after the world wars, no money for registering and the dog wouldn't work less with or without papers. Heyy we're dutch, remember?? :mrgreen:
I am very much interested in the DH, thanks for the article.
When my current PD is due for retiral i would like to consider a DH but dont know enough about them, plus would like to see some working. Can i ask
Do they have a natural propensity for tracking & searching like the GSD.... i should say as much as a gsd ???
When my current PD is due for retiral i would like to consider a DH but dont know enough about them, plus would like to see some working. Can i ask
Do they have a natural propensity for tracking & searching like the GSD.... i should say as much as a gsd ???
As an overview in general how are they. How commonly are they used by the Dutch police and is their main function tracking or more geared to criminal work ?
It all depensd on the bloodline... some are mals with a brindle coat, others, like ours, have different temperament.
Usually more criminal work, we don't have dual purpose dogs here (forbidden, cause of lawsuits etc.). There is a special unit for search dogs, but I haven't have very much knowledge about how many dogs are trained there.
Usually more criminal work, we don't have dual purpose dogs here (forbidden, cause of lawsuits etc.). There is a special unit for search dogs, but I haven't have very much knowledge about how many dogs are trained there.
Thanks, this is the difference in the UK general purpose dogs GSD/mals are required to be able to track(line/harness), search (off lead), property indication & do criminal work. The main remit of a GP dog is tracking/searching for person.
Im sure a good DH could turn its hand to this task, the malis can do it
Im sure a good DH could turn its hand to this task, the malis can do it
Selena-
Can you expound on the differences one would expect to see in the dogs in your breeding program and the "typical" dutch shepherds dogs from the KNPV program? Thanks!
Can you expound on the differences one would expect to see in the dogs in your breeding program and the "typical" dutch shepherds dogs from the KNPV program? Thanks!
Gerry is right :wink: It depends all on the bloodline, more than colour of the coat.
If I compare I will always choose the traits that I like best (our own bloodline), I will not be objective enough.
If I compare I will always choose the traits that I like best (our own bloodline), I will not be objective enough.
I have 2 Dutchies, 1 male 16 months and 1 female 8 months old. Their temperament difference is night and day except when it comes to bitework.
The male is very social properly introduced. He never met a dog he didn't like.
The female is on the extreme side of antisocial. If it's anybody or anything outside the pack she is ready to fight.
Taking in the account the age difference their bitework is excellent.
The male is very social properly introduced. He never met a dog he didn't like.
The female is on the extreme side of antisocial. If it's anybody or anything outside the pack she is ready to fight.
Taking in the account the age difference their bitework is excellent.
Can someone point in the direction of bloodlines suited to LE so i can do a wee bit of research
thanks
B
thanks
B
Barrie-
I am not an authority at all, but my understanding is that Arko von Kikkert was a working police/security do in Holland. He might be a good place to start looking. He is currently owned by Mike Suttle at Logan Haus Kennels. Arko's pedigree can be found on Mike's site. This might be a good place to start looking.
Hopefully others with more knowledge about the specific bloodlines will chime in too.
I am not an authority at all, but my understanding is that Arko von Kikkert was a working police/security do in Holland. He might be a good place to start looking. He is currently owned by Mike Suttle at Logan Haus Kennels. Arko's pedigree can be found on Mike's site. This might be a good place to start looking.
Hopefully others with more knowledge about the specific bloodlines will chime in too.
Yeah iknow who Ian is, however i think i would struggle to find a green dutch in the UK
however what i am looking for is info on specific proven lines , so in the future i can make a decision on where i am going to source (hopefully) a young adult for training his intial PD course. Its pie in the sky at the moment as my GSD has a few years left in her yet... but forward planning
however what i am looking for is info on specific proven lines , so in the future i can make a decision on where i am going to source (hopefully) a young adult for training his intial PD course. Its pie in the sky at the moment as my GSD has a few years left in her yet... but forward planning
@ tim, believe it or not: Wibo is easier to other known people as Spike is ;-) Spike is very well and fully trained, and Wibo wasn't yet, at the time you saw them both.
The young Tommy's (Tommy = our Rocky x Duco- Seegers daughter): it depends on motherside of the breeding. But there are a lot of them (also (grand, grand)childeren of him).
@ Barry: Ian has bred with Tommy ( 2 or 3 litters) , Phil has a full sister of my Anne (Grietje) and a son of Grietje & Wibo. We've also a son and daughter(Dushi) of that breeding.
Dushi will be bred to Tommy next year, Tessa (a Anne x Tommy daughter) will be bred to Wibo next year both litters are sold out, but there are coming some puppies to the States. Fot the ones who know Dutch bloodlines: both litter will be (almost equally) bred back to our Rocky and Rambo (van Rossum).
I know 1 stud in the States that comes directly from our lines, Robbie ( a full brother to our Benta and Spike), the female Lee owns is a daughter of him.
The young Tommy's (Tommy = our Rocky x Duco- Seegers daughter): it depends on motherside of the breeding. But there are a lot of them (also (grand, grand)childeren of him).
@ Barry: Ian has bred with Tommy ( 2 or 3 litters) , Phil has a full sister of my Anne (Grietje) and a son of Grietje & Wibo. We've also a son and daughter(Dushi) of that breeding.
Dushi will be bred to Tommy next year, Tessa (a Anne x Tommy daughter) will be bred to Wibo next year both litters are sold out, but there are coming some puppies to the States. Fot the ones who know Dutch bloodlines: both litter will be (almost equally) bred back to our Rocky and Rambo (van Rossum).
I know 1 stud in the States that comes directly from our lines, Robbie ( a full brother to our Benta and Spike), the female Lee owns is a daughter of him.
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