Poppa (Bayeux) de Senlis (abt. 872 - 931)

Born about 0872 in Bayeux, Calvados, Basse-Normandie, France

Descendants

Died 0931 at about age 59 in Rouen, Seine-Maritime, Haute-Normandie, France

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Biography

Name and Parentage

Her name is shown as Poppa. Her parentage is disputed -- see Research Notes. Her presumed place of birth would vary according to the theory of her family origin.

872 Birth

She is said to have been born about 872 in Évreux, Eure, Haute-Normandie, France. This is consistent with a marriage in 890 at age 18.

890 Marriage

Rollo married as his second wife Poppa, about 886. ^[1]

Lady Popie (the Poupee or Poppet), married 890 by Danish rites Rollo, the Dane.

Guillaume of Jumièges records that Rollo took "Popa, fille de Bérenger, homme illustre" when he captured Bayeux and "s´unit avec elle, à la manière des Danois". According to Orderic Vitalis, Rollo "stormed and captured Bayeux, slew its count Berengar and took to wife his daughter Poppa."

Poppa of Bayeux was the Christian wife or mistress ^[2] (perhaps more danico) ^[3] of the Viking conqueror Rollo.

Rollo repudiated Poppa in order to marry his third wife, Gisela, but after her death, her remarried Poppa after 912. Guillaume of Jumièges records that Rollo married "repudiatam Poppa" again after the death of his wife [Gisela] ^[1].

931 Death

She is said to have died about 931 in Rouen, Seine-Maritime, Haute-Normandie, France and to have been buried in Bayeux, Calvados, Haute-Normandie, Eure, France.

Issue

Linkages of the undocumented children require further research.

Documented Children

1. Guillaume. Poppa was the mother of William I Longsword and grandmother of Richard the Fearless, who forged the Duchy of Normandy into a great fief of medieval France. ^[4] of the Viking conqueror Rollo. Guillaume 'Longue-Épée' William 'Longsword'
2. Gerloc d'Aquitaine, baptized as Adela. Adelene of Normandy, Adella of Normandy (van Normandie)

Research Notes

Ancestry and Parents

The ancestry of Poppa, wife of Rolf the Ganger, 1st Duke of Normandy, seems to have two versions. It is suggested that Poppa was a daughter of Gui, Count of Senlis, and not a daughter of Count Bérenger of Bayeux. This would make Poppa, through her mother, a great granddaughter of King Bernard of Italy (b. 797, d. 818; King of Italy 813 - 817). King Bernard was a grandson of Charlemagne.'

Due to the uncertainty of her father, she has been 'disconnected' from Berenger of Bayeux. (7 Aug 2014)

Poppa's parents are disputed.

Cawley shows Poppa as the daughter of Berengar, Comte de Bayeux & his wife, and bases his conclusion on the following:

• Guillaume de Jumièges records that Rollo captured “Baiocasensem urbem” [Bayeux] along with "nobilissimam puellam...Popam filiam...Berengarii illustris viri" whom he married “more Danico” and by whom he had “Willelmum...filiamque...Gerloc”[33].
• Orderic Vitalis records that "xxx annis post cladem Hastingi [dated to 851 in other sources, see the document CENTRAL FRANCE NOBILITY], Rollo dux cum valida Danorum juventute" entered “Neustriam”, captured Bayeux (“Baiocas”), killed “Berengarium comitem” and married “Popam...filiam eius”[34]. The Chronico Rotomagensis records that "mortua a Gisla, accepit Rollo propriam uxorem filiam comitis Silvanectensis Widonis"[35]. Robert of Torigny combines the information, recording that "Rollo dux Northmannorum" married "Popam prius repudiatam uxorem…filiam…Berengarii comitis Baiocensis neptem vero Widonis comitis Silvanectensis"[36].
• The Historia Norwegie records that, after capturing Rouen, "Rodulfus" married the daughter of its deceased count by whom he was father of "Willelmum…Longosped"[37].
• Another indication of Poppa´s family origin is provided by Guillaume of Jumièges who records that Louis IV King of the West Franks, after the death of the father [Poppa´s son Guillaume I “Longuespée”] of Richard I Comte [de Normandie], marched on Rouen, was received by “Rodulphus et Bernardus atque Anslech totius Normannici ducatus tutores”, and captured Richard, who was taken to Laon but was freed by “Osmundus...consilio cum Yvone patre Willelmi de Belismo” and taken to “Silvanectis” where “Bernardus...comes” [presumably identifiable as Bernard [II] Comte de Senlis, who, assuming that the reconstruction proposed in the document CAROLINGIAN NOBILITY is correct, was Poppa´s uterine half-brother] protected “nepotem suum Richardum”[38]. It would be possible to reconcile the different versions if Comte Bernard's mother was married twice, her first husband being Bérenger Comte de Bayeux.

Poppa de Valois de Bayeux (de Senlis)

Dudo of Saint-Quentin, in his panegyric of the Norman dukes, describes her as the daughter of a "Count Berengar", the dominant prince of that region, who was captured at Bayeux by Rollo in 885 or 889. ^[5] of the Viking conqueror Rollo. This has led to speculation that she was the daughter of Berengar II of Neustria. Despite the uncertainty of her parentage, she undoubtedly was a member of the Frankish aristocracy. ^[6] of the Viking conqueror Rollo.

886 Capture

Weis tells us Poppa was captured in 886 and made his "Danish wife." More needs to known about this incident, for Rollo did not participate in the attack on Bayeux until 890, when Poppa's alleged father Count Berenger of Bayeux was killed. I think no one can say if Poppa was the mother of William I or perhaps Gerloc, further it is not clear that Berenger was her father.

Frankish Origin

The Henry Project (Stewart Baldwin), has this: "Poppa was said by Dudo [ii, 16 (pp. 38-9); iii, 36 (p. 57)] to be of Frankish origin, daughter of a certain count Berengar. The Planctus, which does not provide her name, states that she was a Christian, and mother by a pagan father (i.e., Rollo, whose name is also not given) of William, who was born overseas. The accounts given by Dudo and the Planctus are not necessarily contradictory (since Dudo places Rollo overseas in England not long after mentioning the marriage), but there is also nothing in the Planctus that could be seen as confirming Dudo's account. Some authors have gone even further than Dudo's vague account, by attempting to identify the father of Poppa more specifically, and even to provide her with a mother. Two recent such suggestions are mentioned here, with some comments.

Settipani

Proposed father: Gui, count of Senlis.

Proposed mother: NN (Cunegundis?), daughter of count Pepin, and sister of Heribert I, count of Vermandois.

See Settipani (1993), 217-221. An eleventh century Norman Chronicle (Annales Rouennaises) is cited as making Poppa "... filiam Wydonis comitis Sylvanectensis, sororem Bernardi..." [see Settipani (1993), 218, Keats-Rohan (1997), 198]. This Gui is apparently not known from any other source. The proposed mother comes from the statement of Flodoard that Bernard of Senlis was a consobrinus of Heribert II of Vermandois (see below).

Keats Rohan

Keats-Rohan:

Proposed father: Berengar, d. 896, marquis of Neustria

Proposed mother ("Hypothesis I"): NN (Adalind?), daughter of Henry of Thuringia.

Proposed mother ("Hypothesis II"): NN (Adela?) of Vermandois.

See Keats-Rohan (1997), 196-7. While accepting Dudo's statment that the mother of Poppa was a count Berengar, and then attempting to identify him with a specific Berengar, the alleged connection to Bernard of Senlis is also accepted, by making Bernard either a second cousin ("Hypothesis I") or uterine brother ("Hypothesis II") of Poppa.

Neither of these hypotheses is supported by good contemporary evidence, and both have problems that go beyond the lack of good supporting evidence. Settipani's reconstruction uses a later source to give Poppa a father whose existence is not verified in other sources, and the two Keats-Rohan alternatives are hypothetical, depending to a significant extent on reconstructions of other families which are themselves hypothetical. Both hypotheses use a supposed relationship of Poppa with Bernard of Senlis which has a simpler explanation that involves no connection between Bernard and Poppa. Dudo contradicts himself by referring to Bernard as William's uncle [iii, 45 (p.67)] or to William's son Richard as Bernard's nephew [iv, 76 (pp. 106-7)]. However, it seems likely that if the often proposed identification of Bernard of Senlis with the Bernard who appears as a "consobrinus" of Herbert of Vermandois in Flodoard's annals [s.a. 923: MGH SS 3, 372] is correct, then there is an obvious explanation of the alleged relationship, i.e., that Bernard was "related" to the Norman dukes only as a relative of Liutgard of Vermandois, wife of William and stepmother of Richard I. (See the remarks of Eric Christiansen, in his recent translation of Dudo's History [Dudo 200, note 248]). The fact that Dudo contradicts himself on the matter of Bernard's exact relationship suggests that he was carelessly describing (or perhaps embellishing) a connection that was poorly understood by him. If the suggestion is correct, then Bernard would have nothing to do with the origin or ancestry of Poppa, further undermining these hypotheses. Given the uncertain nature of the evidence, it seems best to say only that the parentage of William's mother (whether her name was Poppa or something else) is uncertain. She may have been a daughter of a count named Berengar, as Dudo states, but even if her father's name is correctly reported by Dudo, the attempts to identify him with a specific Berengar are weak."

Sources

1. ↑ ^{1.0 1.1} Charles Cawley. Foundation for Medieval Genealogy. Medieval Lands Database. Normandy Accessed April 5, 2018 jhd
2. ↑ Stewart Baldwin, F.A.S.G., Henry Project:"Poppa", Cited by Wikipedia: Poppa of Bayeux Accessed April 5, 2018 jhd
3. ↑ Philip Lyndon Reynolds, Marriage in the Western Church: The Christianization of Marriage during the Patristic and Early Medieval Periods (E.J. Brill, Leiden, New York, 1994), pp. 110-111. Cited by Wikipedia: Poppa of Bayeux Accessed April 5, 2018 jhd
4. ↑ Eleanor Searle, Predatory Kinship and the Creation of Norman Power, 840–1066 (University of California Press, Berkeley, 1988), p. 89. Cited by Wikipedia: Poppa of Bayeux Accessed April 5, 2018 jhd
5. ↑ Douglas, 'Rollo of Normandy', p. 417. Cited by Wikipedia: Poppa of Bayeux Accessed April 5, 2018 jhd
6. ↑ Neveux, pp. 60-1. Cited by Wikipedia: Poppa of Bayeux Accessed April 5, 2018 jhd

• Ancestral Roots of Certain American Colonists Who Came to America before 1700; by Frederick Lewis Weis and Walter Lee Sheppard, Jr, ed. by William R. Beall & Kaleen E. Beall (Baltimore, 2008), line 121E-18 (Ganger Rolf).
• Royal Line, The Author: Albert F Schmuhl Publication: Orig. March, 1929 NYC, NY - Rev. March 1980
• Stewart Baldwin (Stewart Baldwin. The Henry Project. Poppa Accessed April 6, 2018 jhd) takes one of the most conservative perspectives regarding Poppa, stating that "the only certain fact that is known about her comes from the contemporary (or nearly so) Planctus of her son William, which states (without naming her) that she was a Christian, and that her son William was born overseas."

Per Stewart Baldwin:

• She was a wife or mistress of Rollo "of Normandy", who flourished in the 10th century
• She was the mother of Rollo's son and successor William "Longsword"
• Her name is reported only by the often unreliable Dudo [ii, 16 (pp. 38-9); iii, 36 (p. 57)] and by sources depending on him (hence the quotes around her name)

Baldwin asserts that both her date and place of birth are unknown.

Baldwin asserts that both her date and place of of death are unknown.

Her father and mother are uncertain.

Her husband or parftner Rollo "of Normandy", died in the period between 928 and 933.

Her one known child is Guillaume (William) I "Longsword" of Normandy, d. 942.

FEMALE Gerloc or Adele, m. Guillaume (William) Tête d'Étoupe, count of Poitou and duke of Aquitaine.

[Dudo ii, 16 (p. 39) makes Poppa the mother of William, but does not explicitly state the mother of Gerloc/Adele. Writing more than a century after the fact, Guillaume de Jumièges ii, 6 (v. 1, pp. 64-5) makes Poppa the mother of both William and Gerloc, but it is not clear whether he had additional information or was just jumping to conclusions by assuming that William and Gerloc were full siblings. See the page on Rollo for more.]

The origin of Poppa

Poppa was said by Dudo [ii, 16 (pp. 38-9); iii, 36 (p. 57)] to be of Frankish origin, daughter of a certain count Bérenger. The Planctus, which does not provide her name, states that she was a Christian, and mother by a pagan father (i.e., Rollo, whose name is also not given) of William, who was born overseas. The accounts given by Dudo and the Planctus are not necessarily contradictory (since Dudo places Rollo overseas in England not long after mentioning the marriage), but there is also nothing in the Planctus that could be seen as confirming Dudo's account. Some authors have gone even further than Dudo's vague account, by attempting to identify the father of Poppa more specifically, and even to provide her with a mother. Two recent such suggestions are mentioned here, with some comments.

Settipani: Proposed father: Gui, count of Senlis. Proposed mother: NN (Cunegundis?), daughter of count Pepin, and sister of Heribert I, count of Vermandois. See Settipani (1993), 217-221. An eleventh century Norman Chronicle (Annales Rouennaises) is cited as making Poppa "... filiam Wydonis comitis Sylvanectensis, sororem Bernardi..." [see Settipani (1993), 218, Keats-Rohan (1997), 198]. This Gui is apparently not known from any other source. The proposed mother comes from the statement of Flodoard that Bernard of Senlis was a consobrinus of Heribert II of Vermandois (see below).

Keats-Rohan: Proposed father: Bérenger, d. 896 (?), "marquis of Neustria". Proposed mother ("Hypothesis I"): NN (Adalind?), daughter of Henry of Thuringia. Proposed mother ("Hypothesis II"): NN (Adela?) of Vermandois. See Keats-Rohan (1997), 196-7. While accepting Dudo's statment that the father of Poppa was a count Bérenger, and then attempting to identify him with a specific Bérenger, the alleged connection to Bernard of Senlis is also accepted, by making Bernard either a second cousin ("Hypothesis I") or uterine brother ("Hypothesis II") of Poppa.

Neither of these hypotheses is supported by good contemporary evidence, and both have problems that go beyond the lack of good supporting evidence. Settipani's reconstruction uses a later source to give Poppa a father whose existence is not verified in other sources, and the two Keats-Rohan alternatives are hypothetical, depending to a significant extent on reconstructions of other families which are themselves hypothetical. Both hypotheses use a supposed relationship of Poppa with Bernard of Senlis which has a simpler explanation that involves no connection between Bernard and Poppa. Dudo contradicts himself by referring to Bernard as William's uncle [iii, 45 (p.67)] or to William's son Richard as Bernard's nephew [iv, 76 (pp. 106-7)]. However, it seems likely that if the often proposed identification of Bernard of Senlis with the Bernard who appears as a "consobrinus" of Herbert of Vermandois in Flodoard's annals [s.a. 923: MGH SS 3, 372] is correct, then there is an obvious explanation of the alleged relationship, i.e., that Bernard was "related" to the Norman dukes only as a relative of Liutgard of Vermandois, wife of William and stepmother of Richard I. (See the remarks of Eric Christiansen, in his recent translation of Dudo's History [Dudo 200, note 248]). The fact that Dudo contradicts himself on the matter of Bernard's exact relationship suggests that he was carelessly describing (or perhaps embellishing) a connection that was poorly understood by him. If the suggestion is correct, then Bernard would have nothing to do with the origin or ancestry of Poppa, further undermining these hypotheses. Given the uncertain nature of the evidence, it seems best to say only that the parentage of William's mother (whether her name was Poppa or something else) is uncertain. She may have been a daughter of a count named Bérenger, as Dudo states, but even if her father's name is correctly reported by Dudo, the attempts to identify him with a specific Bérenger are weak. Se the page on Bérenger (of Maine?) for more.

Bibliography Dudo = Eric Christiansen, ed. & trans., Dudo of St. Quentin, History of the Normans (The Boydell Press, Woodbridge, Suffolk, 1998). Citation is by book and chapter of Dudo's work, with the page number in parentheses.

Flodoard's Annals = See MGH SS 3, 363-408 (Latin), and van Houts (2000), 42-51 (English translation of excerpts relating to the Normans).

GND = Guillaume de Jumièges, Gesta Normannorum Ducum, as edited in Elisabeth van Houts, ed. & trans., The Gesta Normannorum Ducum of William of Jumièges, Orderic Vitalis and Robert of Torigni, 2 vols., (Oxford, 1992). Citation is by book and chapter of Guillaume's work, with the volume and page number of the edition by van Houts in parentheses.

Keats-Rohan (1997) = K. S. B. Keats-Rohan, "Poppa of Bayeux and her Family", The American Genealogist 72 (1997), 187-204.

MGH SS = Monumenta Germaniae Historica, Scriptores series.

PL = P. Migne, Patrologiae Cursus Completus, series Latina, 221 vols. (Paris, 1844-1859).

Planctus = The Planctus of William Longsword, a poem written shortly after the death of William Longsword. See Jules Lair, "Complainte sur l'assassinat de Guillaume Longue-épée duc de Normandie", Bibliothèque de l'École des Chartes 31 (1870), 388-406; P. A. Becker, "Der Planctus auf den Normannenherzog Wilhelm Langschwert", Zeitschrift für franzõsische Sprache und Literatur 63 (1940), 190-7. For a more detailed bibliography on this important source, plus scans of facsimiles of the two known manuscripts and other discussion, see Robert Helmerich's Planctus website.

Settipani (1993) = Christian Settipani, La préhistoire des Capétiens 481-987 (Première partie - Mérovingiens, Carolingiens et Robertiens) (Villeneuve d'Ascq, 1993).

van Houts (2000) = Elisabeth van Houts, ed. & trans., The Normans in Europe (Manchester & New York, 2000) [gives English translations of many of the primary sources relevant to early Norman history]

Compiled by Stewart Baldwin (with thanks to Peter Stewart for some detailed discussions on Poppa on the soc.genealogy.medieval newsgroup)

First uploaded 8 February 2004.

Note about cross reference to Bérenger's page added 17 December 2005.