Sergio Mendes: CD Editions Mastered from MP3 (s)?

Is anyone aware of this database? Album list - Dynamic Range DB FAQ - Dynamic Range DB

Then I searched Sergio Mendes. Album list - Dynamic Range DB

But is this actually true?

Album details - Dynamic Range DB

Album details - Dynamic Range DB

These CD albums were actually pressed from ultra compressed mp3 versions of probably the only 16 bit/44kHz digital master that was ever made before this (however accidental) disaster?
2008 Universal Studios fire - Wikipedia

 

Sounds real fishy to me. I would not have a lot of faith in that database.

Brazil '66 masters should have been in the Polygram vault in NJ with the other A&M tapes, unless somebody had them moved to LA at some point. Nobody seems to know.

 

The submitter ripped them to MP3 by choice and did the DR scan. That's the only purpose of that database.

 

How do you know that the mp3 files used to press these CD's were compressed?

 

I don't actually know; that's why I'm asking here how a generally high quality label like Verve would ever be compelled-or have any reason to-issue a CD that was produced from an mp3 "master". Why would one ever be created, except for downloading via iTunes or the some other online service selling music in space saving lossy formats?

Sadly, however, in addition to that horrid CSG thing that otherwise quality labels like A &M (Fool on the Hill and/or other Brasil 66 albums) and Warners (Joni Mitchell) stupidly imposed on the analog master tapes Haeco-CSG - Wikipedia , sound quality on a number of tracks from the "Look Around" and/or the following two albums was often problematic.

This seemed especially noticeable with the more heavily orchestrated Dave Grusin arrangements. Notice when the music really gets busy on "Look of Love"how it sounds "congested"-though it looks like A&M began using CSG post-1967, when "Look Around" was released. Look Around (Sérgio Mendes album) - Wikipedia

The good news is that it's apparently possible to remove CGS processing from CD tracks.
Removing Haeco-CSG processing using free tools

Unfortunately, that congestion's likely reduced signal/noise ratio due to excessive track bouncing. Even more likely, most pop music produced during and long after the 60s was deliberately slammed with compression within an inch of its life to make them playable on cheap vinyl players, or cause overloading when aired on lossy AM radio.

So as this damage is hopelessly baked into loads of such recordings, please give a show of hands for which were among the best commercial or DIY speakers (minus the rest of the hardware) that made compressed music like this sound its best to your ears??

 

I don't see how this is evidence the CDs were mastered from MP3s. What evidence do you have to suggest this? It seems someone submitted MP3s to the database. How does that prove the label mastered the CDs from MP3s? Even if the label mastered these albums from MP3, the data on the CD would be uncompressed PCM 16/44.1. per Rebook standard. I don't get it.

 

Presumably, someone did submit their DR findings of that album. Apparently, they did so using an mp3 download as a reference. But if they were too poor to buy the CD instead of the lossy mp3, why would such a person care much about sound quality in the first place? That's why I don't get, which as Brucej4 says casts doubt on the usefulness of that database.

Technically speaking, however, if Verve did actually master that CD from an mp3, it goes without saying that transferring it to PCM 16 bit/44K for CD will do nothing to improve the 8 bit digitally "over compressed"
mp3 source.

 

And please reply to my questions about your BEST loudspeaker choices for compressed orchestral [e.g. Dave Grusin, Robert Mersey (Mirsky), Dominic Frontiere, et al ] recordings.

 

There's quite a few submissions on there from people that chose to rip to mp3. Probably for portables or their cars, etc...

 

I keep saying this: this database is a joke. There are REAL scientific loudness measurements but they chose to come up with their stuff. Full integer numbers, and the way it is measured isn't open. Makes colourful charts if not very scientific.

Besides: if they had a 16bit 44.1kHz master why would they choose to convert it to mp3 for a cd release? Makes no sense.

 

If I'm not mistaken, "they" didn't come up with their stuff. It's a database of information submitted by other people. It's sort of like putting a cd in your computer's optical drive and then asking Exact Audio Copy to look up the metadata from one of the available providers. The data is only as good as what was submitted. Sometimes it's error free, sometimes it's somewhat messed up, and sometimes there are multiple submissions for the same disc.

 

I don't get this thread at all. The OP is spreading misinformation about a CD that he apparently doesn't own, and is then doubling down by branching out into completely unrelated topics.

To be clear, this is NOT a CSG album. There's a list of all A&M CSG albums on one of the A&M sites. It's not on there.

If you don't like compression, maybe you should avoid Sixties pop music altogether. Compression was fairly standard practice due to home playback equipment limitations.

 

Yeah, the OP had another weird thread about Sergio Mendes and some sinister Dave Grusin-led conspiracy to mangle their recordings. Very odd!

 

Yeah, I just looked at that thread. Hmm...

 

Maybe Tom Port has a lot of ‘hot stamper’ Mendes LPs to sell?

 

Yes, that's what I concluded as well.

 

I've been way too much of a fan not to have owned all Brasil 66 CDs on the A&M and Verve labels almost as soon as all of them were released. I merely posted these Album details - Dynamic Range DB Album details - Dynamic Range DB because I was shocked and confused when it first looked to me that those CDs were actually mastered from mp3s. Of course, I should have known better, and after the truth became obvious I did post as much when I gave a thumbs up to post #10.

As for my takes on Dave Grusin's contributions, you're again way off base. His arrangements on the next four albums beyond "Herb Alpert Presents..." and "Equinox" were then and remain an incomparably exhilarating fusion with Mendes' sounds. Indeed, Brasil 66, with and before Grusin, doubles the pleasure.

As for the sound quality of Look Around, while I might have confused things by mentioning CGS (though hardly alone in my rightful contempt for such things), I did make it clear that Look Around had just missed getting hit with it. But while "Look of Love" is still a highly listenable track, I was merely pointing out that when the orchestrations get busy the sound does sound "congested". The imaging among the instruments and/or vocals collapse and sound smushed together. I then speculated, reasonably I'd say, over what might have caused it.

Avoiding 60s music? Hardly an option. That's why I asked more than once if anyone-particularly those who might own and enjoy some very well designed horn speakers-could recommend one or more drivers which, however unlikely, might not strongly accentuate the compression applied to many pre-CD recordings, as many horn drivers otherwise would.

And that's why I posted this. Best Horn Driver (s) for Compressed Recordings?

 

I've seen counterfeits, 'home-made' mastering's and rips with severe errors, pre-emphasis CD's that weren't properly ripped or they had no clue it had it, posted in the past. It's a nice guide but that's about it.

 

I couldn't find an equipment list in the OP's profile, so I have no basis for evaluating his compression obsession.

 

I've only recently acquired gear worth posting, such as custom line stage which will drive my First Watt F4 power amp. F4 – www.firstwatt.com

I haven't start shopping for a worthy DAC. I may go with one like this one.
https://www.kitsunehifi.com/product/holo-audio-may-dac/ Or a multichannel DAC like this one.
Merging Technologies | Hapi MkII Mic Pre & AD/DA Converter with RAVENNA & AES67

That choice will probably depend on whether I use more than two of my four Rythmik F12 sealed subs. Rythmik Audio servo subwoofer 12" F12 And with room correction convolving software like DIRAC.

But I now need Troy Crowe and I to first decide on drivers for a two or three way system to work with my Altec midwoofers. Here's Troy review.

 

I get there is no 'they'. I even think it can be interesting. But I wholly disagree with their 'DRnn' measurements. It's imprecise and there's actual scientific measurement of loudness. This forum is full of people saying stuff like 'this album is DR8'. And it's very approximate.