i was reading today that taylor swift was named times person of the year for 2023.. and apparently this is the 2nd time she has won this honour.. she is the first women to get this honour twice! i had been thinking about her earlier in the year and wanted to make a post on her, but this got me to looking at her chart again.. here is the story from today in cbc news..
https://www.cbc.ca/news/entertainment/t ... -1.7050425

now, as it turns out there is no confirmed birth time for her, but a few times have been presented.. one can see the source notes from adb on this page below... you can also learn a lot about her via the wikipedia page too...
https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Swift,_Taylor
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taylor_Swift

my study on this is by no means thorough, but a few quick glances at the chart for 836am mentioned in the source notes seems to bear some fruit.. perhaps though it will be a different time.. the chart for 836am is shown below.. this is in sidereal zodiac..


before i get into this, i want to point out that ouranos did a post on taylor swift with a different time and focusing on the uranian hypothetical - cupido.. he seemed to make that the focus of his post.. others are welcome to post any thoughts they have on this post i am making..
https://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=12229

regarding the 836am time, the angles are crowded, which i like when thinking of someone exceedingly famous for such a young age.. there are basically 6 planets in the ascendant/descendant angles - mercury, moon, jupiter, saturn, uranus, neptune.. the 2 planets mercury and jupiter rule the ascendant/axis and the 4/10 whole sign houses ( wsh) as well.. venus is exactly square the midheaven degree too! her rise to fame has been nothing short of meteoric! perhaps there are some meteoroids to explain all this as well!

the first thing i want to say as a musician is the role i picked up on her parents in all of this.. in the music business they are referred to as stage moms or dads.. they live vicariously thru their kids and seek fame and stardom... this may not apply to taylor swift, but i sensed some of this from reading the wikipedia page... it doesn't really matter either way, but i have witnessed this first hand over a number of years - potential and usually always young girls with a lot of ability flying down to nashville with the financial support of their parents to reach fame and success.. in taylors case, regardless of the motives of her parents ( although i would be very curious to see her parents birth data! ) she has been extremely successful.. i attribute this to having all the talent and skills necessary in what is a difficult and potentially treacherous profession...

apparently she thinks of herself more as a songwriter - the prominent mercury perhaps, or moon-jupiter in gemini? mercury applies to neptune.. they use the term chameleon to refer to her musical approach stylistically speaking.. although she started out in the country vein, she has crossed over into pop, folk and other musical categories to the point of being hard to put her into one musical category box.. i never liked those boxes anyway.. most musicians don't either...

sun in the 12th and she also has a career as an actor which makes sense... sun rules the 9th and she is apparently very good at marketing and overseeing many of the publishing aspects of her career too.. mars, ruler of the 12th is also in the wsh 12th.. it rules over the 5/12 houses and she is very much focused on entertainment which is often thought of as a 5th house activity.. the sun as light of this diurnal chart, takes on greater emphasis and importance.. this is not to say the role of the moon isn't important too, but not as much.. it is about 12 degrees past the exact opposition, so essentially a full moon chart.. the moon applies most closely to an opposition to uranus rising - less then 2 degree orb..

she is a real voice for the late 80's generation with the triple conjunction of saturn-uranus-neptune, in the sidereal sign sag.. her mercury is also immersed in this triple conjunction and all that it implies..

i did look at the solar arc directions for here and see that sa pluto is conjunct her sun at present.. that is pluto in the 11th... pluto is square the nodal axis.. not exactly sure what that means here..

mars is 45 the saturn/neptune conjunction.. i tend to think of the saturn/neptune conjunction as very musical in itself - classical and string sounds in particular, but just musical and poetic and all the positives of neptune being strengthened by saturns form..

in some ways it is hard for me to get much further down into the chart and i welcome others thoughts on it.. as i mentioned earlier their is no confirmation on the actual time of birth.. i am using the 836am at present, because i feel it best sums up what i understand about her, but others may have a different viewpoint which could be equally or more valid..

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add on... one of the concepts that jumps out here - well there are a few, but first this one - mutual reception.. they have a name for it in indian astrology too - i forget the term... anyway, in this chart mercury is in jupiters sign and jupiter is in mercurys sign.. thus the 2 planets on the angles, having great bearing on the angles - if these angles are correct, as i believe they are - then you have this really interesting set up with the angle rulers...

the other concept i wanted to discuss was the idea of just when a solar return takes effect.. taylor swifts 2023 solar return happens in less then 1 week.. is it possible for it to be happening and throwing some influence over her at this point in time? the logical thing is to say no - it starts when the solar return starts on her birthday - dec 13th, or when the sun returns to its natal position.. but i happen to see a number of connections of significance for this upcoming solar return, that don't show up in the one that is still technically in operation for now... with that in mind - below is a biwheel with her 836am chart on the inside and the dec 13 2023 solar return for this same time, on the outside...



there is an exact conjunction of mercury/moon in the 23 solar return at 14 sag, conjunct the natal ascendant for the 836am time.. there are other factors too.. perhaps i will comment more friday.. busy day tomorrow... it is late wednesday here..

james_m wrote: Thu Dec 07, 2023 3:02 am regarding the 836am time, the angles are crowded, which i like when thinking of someone exceedingly famous for such a young age.. there are basically 6 planets in the ascendant/descendant angles - mercury, moon, jupiter, saturn, uranus, neptune.. the 2 planets mercury and jupiter rule the ascendant/axis and the 4/10 whole sign houses ( wsh) as well.. venus is exactly square the midheaven degree too! her rise to fame has been nothing short of meteoric! perhaps there are some meteoroids to explain all this as well!

Hey James: Of the two times given on ADB, the 8:36 am vs. the 5:17 am, I would agree the 8:36 am time fits with someone as notable professionally and popular as she is. More rightly put, she is a phenomenon. Taylor is the only artist in pop history to occupy all of the Top Ten single slots at the same time, and she more recently racked up four simultaneous Top Ten albums.
The technical term for the mutual reception in Indian astrology you are looking for is Parivartana Maha Yoga, which is produced by Mercury and Jupiter.
when they do not involve houses 3, 6, 8 and 12. This is a very auspicious yoga. It is associated with blessings from the goddess Lakshmi.
Be Well.

thanks aj!

i am wondering if the dasa system can be helpful in the rectification process?

836am time gives rahu/jupiter at the beginning followed by jupiter dasa from 2003 to 2017.... presently she is in saturn dasa, mercury sub until 2025.. mercury as main dasa doesn't happen until 2038..

517am time gives rahu/rahu at the start of her life, with jupiter dasa 2006 to 2019.. presently she is in saturn dasa, with saturn/mercury period not starting til 2025..

thoughts?

james_m wrote: Thu Dec 07, 2023 4:58 pm thanks aj!

i am wondering if the dasa system can be helpful in the rectification process?

836am time gives rahu/jupiter at the beginning followed by jupiter dasa from 2003 to 2017.... presently she is in saturn dasa, mercury sub until 2025.. mercury as main dasa doesn't happen until 2038..

517am time gives rahu/rahu at the start of her life, with jupiter dasa 2006 to 2019.. presently she is in saturn dasa, with saturn/mercury period not starting til 2025..

thoughts?

Hey James: That's a little tough because both Jupiter and Saturn are strong and well placed in her chart, but here are some quick thoughts.

To be brief, and without a lot of other considerations, the 8:36 am chart that has her starting her Saturn mahadasha in December of 2019 fits best.
From her bio on Wikipedia,

Amidst the COVID-19 pandemic, Swift released two surprise albums: Folklore on July 24, and Evermore on December 11, 2020.[220][221] Both explore indie folk and alternative rock with a more muted production compared to her previous upbeat pop songs.[222][223] Swift wrote and recorded the albums with Jack Antonoff, and Aaron Dessner from The National, as producers.[224] Alwyn co-wrote and co-produced select songs under the pseudonym William Bowery.[225] The albums garnered widespread critical acclaim. The Guardian and Vox opined that Folklore and Evermore emphasized Swift's work ethic and increased her artistic credibility. [Italics are mine].

This fits really well with Saturn's increase in responsibility and hard work. Since the above, her many other projects, albums, and worldwide Eras tour reflect continue in the wake of this outpouring of dedication and discipline.

In the 5:17 a.m. chart, Taylor Swift just entered the main period of Saturn in April of '22. In this chart, you could argue that the Saturn timing reflects her career drive as well, but not as convincingly, IMO.

There are many points that make me choose the 8:36 am chart over the other, but I don't have the time to list them right now.
It's pretty obvious that the 8:36 am chart is a lot more powerful than the 5:17 am one.

Be Well.

thanks aj

now you have me even more curious! thanks for considering these ideas and sharing your general thoughts on it too..

a few things.. one - she is hugely popular, and in particular as i understand it - with young girls.. there is a generation of fans that have grown up with her music and identify strongly with her... is there a name for her fans? swifties? what is the basis for this popularity? one idea is the idea of a young women - mercury-moon, could be a factor based off how close the mercury/moon combo are to the ascendant axis.. another idea is how neptune rising can be all things to all people in so far as they are hard to pin down and capable of shape shifting.. in some ways i would say the same about saturn rising.. saturn is known for wearing masks and those with saturn rising can be very adept at this same skill, but for different reasons.. all in all, it seems to me the generation with these planets in conjunction - saturn, uranus and neptune - might identify more readily with taylor as it is at the forefront of the impression she throws off in her appearance and public front, based on them all being in the ascendant..

now, another idea occurred to me today and that is her new relationship with the football player.. having jupiter on the descendant sounds like being drawn to a sports figure.. again - 836am time - we don't know this for a fact, but it lends itself to some of these ideas i have discussed here..

looking at a day chart for travis kelce, aside from the fact both are born in 1989 and share the saturn, uranus, neptune conjunction with jupiter in opposition , there is not a lot of obvious connections that i see.. for noon travis moon is at 14 aries - sidereal, which lines up well with some of her planets, and with her moon in gemini... it is all very speculative at this point..

the synergy between her chart and trumps is more noticeable.. i see there was some dust up and speculation surrounding that as well..

james_m wrote: Thu Dec 07, 2023 8:10 pm she is hugely popular, and in particular as i understand it - with young girls.. there is a generation of fans that have grown up with her music and identify strongly with her... is there a name for her fans? swifties? what is the basis for this popularity? one idea is the idea of a young women - mercury-moon, could be a factor based off how close the mercury/moon combo are to the ascendant axis.. another idea is how neptune rising can be all things to all people in so far as they are hard to pin down and capable of shape shifting.. in some ways i would say the same about saturn rising.. saturn is known for wearing masks and those with saturn rising can be very adept at this same skill, but for different reasons.. all in all, it seems to me the generation with these planets in conjunction - saturn, uranus and neptune - might identify more readily with taylor as it is at the forefront of the impression she throws off in her appearance and public front, based on them all being in the ascendant..

Hey James: It does get one wondering what configurations astrologically make for such a phenomenon.
Nerd warning! I was doing some research on the demographics of her fan base, known as Swifties. This will repeat a bit of what you have noted, but with some surprises as well.

Overall, the majority of Swifites are female, white, and suburban, and they have high engagement and devotion. This also means they buy a lot of merchandise.
As you pointed out, the largest group are millennials, which make up 45% of the fanbase. Her own career has largely paralleled the lives of millennials, leading to a strong connection.

Surprising to me, though, was that Baby Boomers represent 23% of Swifties. This shows Taylor's music transcends generations and resonates with diverse age groups.

Equal to Baby Boomers was Generation X, comprising 21% of the fanbase, demonstrating that even Gen X can't escape the charm of Swift's music.

Generation Z was much smaller at 11%, but their presence still highlights the great appeal of Taylor Swift among younger audiences.

Politics also plays a role with her fan base. Surveys show 55% of Swifties identify as Democrats, aligning with Taylor's own political views. You mentioned there were some sparks in the synastry between Taylor Swift and Trump's chart, and she is known to be quite vocal in this regard.

Another surprising factoid, is that Republicans and Independents are still present, with 23% Republican and 23% Independent, reflecting a diverse political landscape within the fan base.

She is popular enough to sway voters.

That was a lot to digest, and keep in mind that these demographics are generalizations, and a lot of Swifties still may not fit neatly into any one category. I guess what I didn't realize at the outset is that her fanbase is much more diverse and includes people from all walks of life.

More astrology later.

Be Well.

thanks for the rundown on all of this aj!

not sure what to say about all that.. any popular figure is going to draw a crowd from all the different age breakdowns, now classified in hip terms for us - like millennials and etc. etc...

here is a thought, connected back to marc edmund jones ideas on planetary picture types... swifts chart is 2 planets - jupiter and moon, as the handle of the bucket chart.. this seems to define her huge fan base - jupiter/moon and also must on some level continue to feed all this.. it is heady stuff for her, but perhaps because she hasn't gotten involved in drugs like the previous generation - who had the saturn/uranus conjunction trine neptune - i am thinking the beatles and those groups from the 60's with this kind of outer planet set up - she is able to continue on to greater and greater strengths... i was thinking of another couple of people who were quite prominent and successful - jimi hendrix and jim morrison - both born around the same time of year as taylor and how they both died due their involvement in drugs.. come to think of it janis joplin might have fallen into the same zone in terms of birth season too.. so perhaps there is something about the fall season generating these super stars? regardless, swifts chart is a bucket chart with jupiter/moon as the handle to the rest of the chart..

with regard to the 3 musicians from a previous era which were quite popular - hendrix, morrison and joplin, i thought i would share their charts for others to consider... see below..
https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Hendrix,_Jimi
https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Morrison,_Jim
https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Joplin,_Janis

regarding the popularity of taylor swift, here are some more thoughts... Michel and Francoise Gauquelin research work found an angular moon showed up in the charts of politicians more frequently, perhaps because of the ability of these individuals to read the public's mood, there was a direct connection to their success... again - i am speculating, but it seems to me the setting moon might also be a factor and that it is in a fairly close conjunction with jupiter would expand on this idea...

what is interesting although the previous generation of musicians listed above seemed to break down many of the ideas associated with culture, music and etc. etc - was this the saturn-uranus conjunction in sidereal taurus which would affect values more generally, or? was neptune in the 5th house of this conjunction making it a focus on more imaginative art/music/psychedelia, drugs and etc as creative outlet? as it happens 2 of the 3 charts shared above also have a moon/jupiter conjunction, although they are not angular... i wonder if this somehow feeds into the popularity theme?

i might have to resort to uranian hypotheticals to resolve this, lolol!

james_m said:

i might have to resort to uranian hypotheticals to resolve this, lolol!

Hey James: Once you are done researching the Uranian hypotheticals, there are 8000 asteroids in Swiss Ephemeris waiting for you! LOL

Be Well.

i am going to get the cool kids to get AI to question alfred wiite directly.. while they're at it, dial up martha lang-wescott to get an asteroid on all this!

on the other hand, 5th harmonic chart is interesting.. saturn quintile midheaven, if time is correct.. moon biquintile mars, neptune 36/144 nodal axis... that all indicates various talents of different sorts...

Taylor Swift’s speculative birth time 8:36 am looks quite appropriate, but 8:34 am looks even better. It puts Jupiter exactly (within two minutes of arc) on the descendant and perfects the square between Venus and The MC.

In Cosmobiology and Uranian Astrology the Mc/Asc is the native’s vocational axis, denoting “Professional and mental contact with the general public”. On the 90 degree dial , Taylor Swift’s Mc/Asc = Venus/Jupiter, which according to Ebertin’s COSI reads as “Artist” and “Popular” = Venus/Mercury (“Author, writer, artist, salesman of art-objects, rhythm”).

Adding the TNPs to the mix, the same vocational axis is also equal the following midpoints: Cupido/Kronos (“The formula for a great artist”), Sun/Node (“Connections with the public”), Node/Kronos (“Connections with the authorities, Diplomatic connections”) and Zeus/Admetos (“Ingenious”).
On the 45 degree dial (8th harmonic), the same vocational axis is exactly equal TNP Zeus (“Creativity, Leadership, direction, irresistible force, Compulsive behavior”), Sun/Moon(“Daily and hourly, body and soul, partnership with others, spirit and soul…”) and Uranus/Kronos (“Empathic expression, causing great excitement, dictator…”).

Some of the many three part formulas (A+B-C) on the same axis are Mars+Mars-Moon (“Agility of the brain, an active woman”), Moon+Moon-Venus (“The love of female persons”), Moon+Moon-Mc (“Mental influence through female persons”), Sun+Mc-Moon (“To be in public life”), Cupido+Apollon-Aies (“To become known in large circles through art or science”), Uranus+Pluto-Mercury (“To quickly absorb new things”), Venus+Zeus-MC (“One who is devoted”), Mars+Vulcanus-Poseidon (“Proud of mental achievements”), Node+Aries-Poseidon(“Connections with many for an ideal purpose”), Venus+Asc-Zeus (“The favored one, pleasant and creative connections”), Moon+Mercury-Apollon (“Meetings of youth, extended working hours”), Sun+Kronos-Jupiter (“ Successful leadership, happiness and success through independence”), Jupiter+Zeus-Asc (“Working together with others”), Kronons+Apollon-Hades (“The cultural attitude of low brow people”), Pluto+Poseidon-Neptune (“To develop fantasy pictures”)…

The Aries Point, aka “The world axis”, and the planets, midpoints and three part formulas that share its axis in the natal chart reflect the native’s connection with the world and his/her image in the public eye.

In this natal chart, some of the ones found on the world axis are:

Pluto/Admetos (“Making the best of the general conditions”)
Node/Zeus (“To join with others for creative accomplishments”)
Mercury/Kronos (“Lofty mental qualities, honesty, uprightness, upon good faith”)
Vulcanus/Poseidon (“Self-esteem, self-confidence, Pride, Dignity, Ruling ideas, Affecting everybody, The mental or spiritual influence and power”)
Apollon/Poseidon (“Spreading of ideas, the general mental and emotional attitude”)
Asc/Sun (“Personal relationships”)
Sun/Mercury (“Motion, traveling and wandering”)
Venus/Saturn (“Passing affections, Love’s sorrow, Love separation, Sense of duty dominates the inclinations of the heart”)
Mc/Saturn (“Serious personality, Go one’s own way alone”)
Sun/Jupiter (“Health, joy, recognition, creative power the capacity to perform record achievements…”)
Moon/Zeus (“The creative brain, Discipline”)
Mc/Mars (“One’s independence, Organizer, The concentration upon aim or objective, the power to succeed in life”)
Node/Admetos (“Small exclusive circle”)
Uranus/Zeus (“Dynamo”)
Mc+Aries-Venus (“Looking attractive to the public”)
Aries+Venus-Mc (“To be beloved, Popular, to have great power of attraction, Extending much love in the world”).
Mars+Zeus-Node (“Connected with physically strong and energetic people”)
Aries+Kronos-Saturn (“Owner of great possessions: land grant, stokes etc..”)
Mercury+Vulcanus-Pluto (“To develop great speed…”,well her name is “Swift”).
Uranus+Cupido-Venus (“Music”).

For the lack of time and space I did not list here all of the planetary pictures aligned with her “World axis”, but there are so many of them that describe her drive, ambition, creativity, industriousness, great artistic products, powers of concentration on ideas, popularity, her superiority over others, her extraordinarily great success and prosperity, financial power, optimism, charitable activity, social activism, education, credibility, her connections with the authorities and with successful people, as well as some that reflect suppression, suffering through mean and cruel people, discontent, dissatisfaction, the description of her music as “low brow art, hippie art”, acquaintances who cause evil gossip and bad reputation, legal battles, coldness in love, physical ailments (possibly of her mother), slander etc…

On December the 6th 2023 Taylor Swift was named TIME magazine’s “person of the year” for 2023.
This is indicated by solar arc directions to her chart.

1. Solar Arc Zeus and the entire Mc/Asc axis aligned exactly (to the minute) with the natal Mc and Venus.
2. Solar Arc Jupiter and Asc/dsc axis aligned exactly with the natal Ms/Asc=Zeus axis.
3. Solar arc Pluto hit the natal Sun=Kronos (“To become a leader”), while transit Apollon is almost on the same axis.
4. Solar arc Vulcanus=Apollon (“Strongest success”) aligned with her natal Uranus=Cupido (“Sudden marriage?, Exciting family event?”)
5. Solar arc midpoint Kronos/Poseidon (“cultural elite”) and Mars/Mercury (“realization of thoughts and plans”) are within minutes of the “World axis”.

6. Some more of the solar arc directed planetary pictures that hit the “World axis”:

Uranus+Vulcanus-Mc (“Sudden great display of power”)
Mc+Apollon-Sun(“Success through life experience”)
Uranus+Vulcanus-Venus(“To surprisingly experience great affection”)
Uranus+Kronos-Asc(“Great excitement caused by the native”)
Sun+Jupiter-Neptune(“To be under false impressions while working toward success")
Mercury+Apollon-Kronos(“Fashionable in speeches with many”)
Cupido+Apollon-Mc(“To have success as an artist or scientist”)

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* All planetary pictures were calculated with the help of the following commercial astrology programs:
1. NOVA Chartwheels.
2. Janus 5.5

** All cookbook interpretations were retrieved from the books:
1. Rules for Planetary Pictures (RPP) – The astrology of tomorrow by Ludwig Rudolf
2. The combinations of stellar influences (COSI) by Reinhold Ebertin.

AquaStelLea!

thank you! that is all very fascinating.. i appreciate you taking a look with your particular orientation and coming up with this... if you were to break it down in terms of percentages, what % would the asc/mid = venus/jupiter work out to compared to the descendant= jupiter? it is sort of a trick question, lol, but i am curious to know what you value more..

clearly you have taken a urainian astrology approach, which i can't really comment on too much.. if you had to lessen the number of considerations and brought it down to only 3 or 4 midpoints to imply her great status and recognition at this point in time in her life, what midpoint pictures would you lean on most heavily? pick only 3 or 4 and humour me... thanks!