How much of Goku's..uh dumb and irresponsible characterization in Super can be blamed on Toriyama? | FanVerse

How much of Goku's..uh dumb and irresponsible characterization in Super can be blamed on Toriyama?

SuperSaiyaMan12

SuperSaiyaMan12

The Seventh Hokage's arrived.
Considering that Toriyama leading up to Super said he wanted to write Goku how he 'should' be and get away from the Superman motif he had in Z, do you think he's solely responsible for Goku becoming dumber and irresponsible throughout Super or does Toei and Toyotaro also share the blame? And with Toriyama dead, do you see any 'course correction' on Goku's character happening to realign with what we had in the Buu Saga?
 
I mean it's his show so all of it I guess. Though AI don't think the stupidity of the show revolves around Goku. I think it comes from the lack of masculinity in a revamp of a show that was all about masculinity. The bitchification of Vegeta. As well as the general public becoming less aware and having no critical thinking skills because their brains are rotted from lack of true interaction.

America has been on a steep slope of stupidity for over 50 years. I was surprised that Goku was just cool with a super mass murderer that ordered the destruction of his planet. Though I never watched the original subbed dbz so maybe Goku was more uncaring then I knew. Though where I drew the line was their only being if I can remember less than 20 planets in the universe with fighters on them. I remember it being a super small number like 9. Which makes no sense because Frieeza was only the ruler of a galaxy and we know their was a large number of alien planets with fighters on them just in his own galaxy. So many so that he made a family business out of conquering them. So out of the trillions of other galaxies none of them had fighters.

I thought that was just shitty writing and a poor line of thinking. The art also sucks. But Goku more or less seems the same. Except he's like the rest of men in media is completely ineffectual and boring
 
Anything that happened on both anime and manga is to be blamed on him

Goku not knowing what a kiss is , action amateur and Cocky in battles in movies , had to retaught basic martial artist training and techniques , this stuffs happened even on the OG manga

Hell I bite that everytime Goku used legitimate martial arts technique or style in modern era had to do with other writers, not Toriyama
 
He didn’t write Goku this way back in the Piccolo jr saga which was before Z. Must have forgot how to keep Goku middle grounded.
 
I think people need to understand that a mangaka, no matter what he creates at a certain time, remains a project, and once the project is finished, he moves on to something else, either he stops, or he makes another manga.

and in the case of dragon ball, it's even more obvious: toryama had stopped making manga since 1995, at the end of dragon ball.
Since then, he's done a few oneshots to please shonenjump, but his life as a mangaka was over, and he continued to work on games like dragon quest and blue dragon.

so the case of dragon ball super, it's not him, he participated a little in the correction of drawings and other things but he's no longer the active mangaka of the 80/90s
(which remains a simple project for him, dating back 30 or even 40 years if we take into account the start of his manga).

even without taking into account his brain disease, akira toriyama on dragon ball is from 1984 to 1995, not dragon ball super

You have to understand that akira toryama and his image have been used in different ways to satisfy the manga industry, and this has exhausted him, and that the older he got, the more he forced himself to do things. ( things he himself has forgotten because it was 30 years ago and he had moved on. )

all this to say that we should be talking about akira toriyama when he was a mangaka (80s/90s on dr slump/dragon ball) and not 30 years later, when he'd stopped all that and wanted to enjoy a family life in his little country house, but circumstances and the worldwide success of dragon ball put a lot of pressure on him, even though dragon ball was just another project he'd finished a long time ago.
 
Hazuki said:
I think people need to understand that a mangaka, no matter what he creates at a certain time, remains a project, and once the project is finished, he moves on to something else, either he stops, or he makes another manga.

and in the case of dragon ball, it's even more obvious: toryama had stopped making manga since 1995, at the end of dragon ball.
Since then, he's done a few oneshots to please shonenjump, but his life as a mangaka was over, and he continued to work on games like dragon quest and blue dragon.

so the case of dragon ball super, it's not him, he participated a little in the correction of drawings and other things but he's no longer the active mangaka of the 80/90s
(which remains a simple project for him, dating back 30 or even 40 years if we take into account the start of his manga).

even without taking into account his brain disease, akira toriyama on dragon ball is from 1984 to 1995, not dragon ball super

You have to understand that akira toryama and his image have been used in different ways to satisfy the manga industry, and this has exhausted him, and that the older he got, the more he forced himself to do things. ( things he himself has forgotten because it was 30 years ago and he had moved on. )

all this to say that we should be talking about akira toriyama when he was a mangaka (80s/90s on dr slump/dragon ball) and not 30 years later, when he'd stopped all that and wanted to enjoy a family life in his little country house, but circumstances and the worldwide success of dragon ball put a lot of pressure on him, even though dragon ball was just another project he'd finished a long time ago.
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Wait 1984 since when? It started in 1986.
 
Artist said:
Wait 1984 since when? It started in 1986.
Click to expand...

Since 1984 is the manga in the weekly shōnen jump (the 1st volume in japan came out 6 month after the first chapter of dragon ball in the shonen jump ) whereas 1986 is just when the anime started (which isn't by toriyama)

At the end of 1984 toriyama had already done 6 chapters, and in 1986 at the time of the first anime episode, the manga was already at chapter 63 with the red ribbons.
 
Blame implies that Goku's unpredictable and reckless optimism is not a huge part of what makes him fun.
 
Hazuki said:
Since 1984 is the manga in the weekly shōnen jump (the 1st volume in japan came out 6 month after the first chapter of dragon ball in the shonen jump ) whereas 1986 is just when the anime started (which isn't by toriyama)

At the end of 1984 toriyama had already done 6 chapters, and in 1986 at the time of the first anime episode, the manga was already at chapter 63 with the red ribbons.
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Oh, didn't know that.
 
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