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Ang Lee is done with 3D and High Frame Rate movies

Koklusz

Koklusz

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Oct 27, 2017
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www.indiewire.com

Ang Lee Rejects 3D for Bruce Lee Biopic: ‘The Whole Ecosystem Is Bad’ for the Format

Ang Lee tells IndieWire why 3D filmmakers and theaters are 'bad' and why he won't return to the format for his upcoming Bruce Lee biopic.
www.indiewire.com www.indiewire.com

"In general, not only my two movies, 3D in general … [is] so bad," Lee said. "The filmmakers are bad. The theaters are bad. The whole ecosystem is bad. It's not made for [3D]. I refuse to complain, to blame it on the medium… it's the audience, and the industry, [who] were not prepared."
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"The theaters are stingy. It's really dim, you can't really see it. It's flickering, and the 3D," he said. "People do a poor job, [it] gives you a headache, it's purely bad. You can't blame the audience for not liking it because it's bad. And they're asked to pay more money. When it gets good, people like it. It's simple. 3D is different than 2D. Your mind works differently. You cannot compare the two. One is sophisticated and the other is like a baby."


Lee added, "That's why I developed new projectors. It's four times brighter. It's a new language a filmmaker has to pick up, audience has to get used to it, it just takes time. There are bad filmmakers, it's that simple. Audiences only see what they see. It's dark, and they get a headache. Filmmakers don't know what they're doing with the images. It's just the beginning."
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For that reason, Lee said he will not shoot the Bruce Lee biopic in 3D and is unlikely to return to shooting in high-frame rate any time soon, either.


"It's too hard, especially after the two movies. The 3D is just too hard. I'll go back to the regular way, the old way of making movies," he said. "There's a great story to be told, a lot to explore. I'm still working on it. But it won't be in 3D."
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So I guess that makes Cameron the Last Man Standing. I can't imagine future Avatar movies not coming out in 3D, but I wonder HFR is still on the table, the reactions to Way of the Water HFR usage were very mixed.
 
snausages

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Not sure what the projector technology he's talking about is, but Gravity lives rent free in my brain as the single most immersive media experience I've ever had, and I include Half Life Alyx in that comparison. To the point I'd gatekeep and say you haven't even truly seen the film if it was in 2D

But every other 3D experience I've had was pointless and shit. Maybe that's what he means by bad filmmakers
 
TeenageFBI

TeenageFBI

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Oct 25, 2017
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I think high framerate stuff is interesting but the extra resolution makes it even more difficult and expensive to produce believable special effects. And with so few people releasing HFR films, it won't be easy to stop the soap opera comments.

Feels like HFR is done for the forseeable future.
 
DJ88

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Oct 26, 2017
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snausages said:
Not sure what the projector technology he's talking about is, but Gravity lives rent free in my brain as the single most immersive media experience I've ever had, and I include Half Life Alyx in that comparison. To the point I'd gatekeep and say you haven't even truly seen the film if it was in 2D

But every other 3D experience I've had was pointless and shit. Maybe that's what he means by bad filmmakers
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While I wouldn't put it above Alyx, I did recently watch Gravity again for the first time in 3D on the AVP and you're right, it was a totally different experience than in 2D
 
thediamondage

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Oct 25, 2017
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Its a general problem in the USA, a lot of theaters are poorly maintained and makes the experience unpleasant. Between poorly calibrated screen and sound systems to badly maintained seats you develop a "oh we never go to that theater" system whereas thats never an issue at home. Adding stuff like 3D or HFR is even worse since that requires even more calibrated systems.

Sure, my local Dolby AMC is usually great (still have had a few bad experiences) but the closer multiplexes near me are always bad like the one time I saw a kid throw up in a seat. You have one bad experience and it sours you on going to theaters in the future.
 
Zulith

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Oct 25, 2017
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There's that then. It's pretty much all but dead outside of Avatar sequels now, unless there is some crazy new innovation. As a gamer, you want to love HFR movies but it is such a brain shock that it's hard to get past. I still think it makes CGI and heavy action scenes look better, you can follow the action much clearer. But it can make slow sequences feel like you are watching a recording of a stage play. I see the potential there and did like it (at times) for The Hobbit trilogy, but sadly it's too much of a mixed bag to overwhelmingly love.

I still want them to release HFR versions of The Hobbit trilogy somehow so I can revisit it.
 
GoodGrief

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Jan 24, 2024
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I'm not a fan of 3D but I'll admit there are several movies that benefit from it such as Gravity. Not Lee's movies though

HFR though? Lock it up and throw away the key. I have never seen a use of it that didn't make me nauseous or give me a headache. What a pointless thing to include in a movie for no reason.
 
THEVOID

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HFR and 3D in Avatar 2 were incredible. It's the first time I liked HFR. The water scenes were incredible and immersive.
 
shaneo632

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I just hate the smooth look of HFR, it's like when stuff is shot far away from a 180 degree shutter, it just looks "uncinematic" to me. And it'll never be adopted enough for audience to "get used" to the look.
 
louiedog

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Oct 25, 2017
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He's right. When the 3D revival was big I found it distracting instead of immersive most of the time. Avatar was the only live action 3D that I saw where I found that it added to the experience. I also thought Coraline was good in 3D and worked well. Everything else made the movie watching experience worse and took me out of what I was watching. I just stopped trying.
 
Xevren

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Oct 25, 2017
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Dude should just worry about making a good movie first instead of throwing garbage like Gemini Man out there. Getting HFR set up on sites just for that turd was annoying.
 
Amnixia

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3D sucked and I am glad people stopped pushing it as hard, high frame rate can be pretty cool though (but probably not worth the expense)
 

HowlTheChampion

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Nov 3, 2017
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snausages said:
Not sure what the projector technology he's talking about is, but Gravity lives rent free in my brain as the single most immersive media experience I've ever had, and I include Half Life Alyx in that comparison. To the point I'd gatekeep and say you haven't even truly seen the film if it was in 2D

But every other 3D experience I've had was pointless and shit. Maybe that's what he means by bad filmmakers
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My favourite movie experience from the years when I had an LG 3D TV. I was utterly exhausted and euphoric by the time it ended.
 
Gentlemen

Gentlemen

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Oct 25, 2017
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thediamondage said:
Its a general problem in the USA, a lot of theaters are poorly maintained and makes the experience unpleasant. Between poorly calibrated screen and sound systems to badly maintained seats you develop a "oh we never go to that theater" system whereas thats never an issue at home. Adding stuff like 3D or HFR is even worse since that requires even more calibrated systems.

Sure, my local Dolby AMC is usually great (still have had a few bad experiences) but the closer multiplexes near me are always bad like the one time I saw a kid throw up in a seat. You have one bad experience and it sours you on going to theaters in the future.
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Compounding this is the death of 'projectionist' as a valuable career path. Just not worth learning the tech skills required for theater exhibition.
 
Shig

Shig

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Oct 30, 2017
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No one is interested in releasing 3D Blurays anymore since 3DTVs have been out of circulation for ages at this point, and a lot of 3D versions of movies only play for a week, if *at all* in most regions. So yeah, investing in 3D conversions is just throwing money and work at something that a fraction of a fraction of the moviegoing audience will see, and that will not be preserved for anyone to consume in any other way going forward.

It really pains me to type all that out, since I'm apparently one of the few that was a total simp for 3D, but making 3D conversions at this point is devoting an awful lot of resources towards make a thing that'll essentially just get dumped in the trash almost immediately.
 
Galaxea

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That's good. I love his older work.

I've been doing stop motion at 15fps because I just love older vintage looking methods of film making. Don't get me wrong, I love using modern tech to help me but things such as 60fps is just too smooth and clean outside of games. I saw someone try to add frames to step motion using ai and I was completely confused at the point of smoothing out stop motion.
 
New002

New002

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Oct 25, 2017
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Love and own several 3D movies and I'm glad to have my OLED C6 that supports 3D. I'll be sad when that set dies :/

Didn't care much for HFR content though :( Saw The Hobbit in theaters in HFR.
 
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looprider

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Oct 27, 2017
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Was just talking to someone about what an abomination Gemini Man was for a great a director as Ang Lee. So yes focus on strong stories not chasing tech trends
 
Adam Tyner

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Shig said:
No one is interested in releasing 3D Blurays anymore since 3DTVs have been out of circulation for ages at this point
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There's very little interest from the majors, though there are sometimes still 3D editions to import from overseas, and boutiques keep a quasi-steady flow coming.

I'm not holding my breath for 3D BD support with the PSVR2, but I'm hoping to have some way to watch these discs at some point. I'm a weirdo who's more excited to watch Silent Madness, Creature from the Black Lagoon, It Came from Outer Space, APE, and Robot Monster in 3D than, say, Avatar.
 
JigglesBunny

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Not crazy about either format personally but he's absolutely right that subpar presentation standards (dated projection systems, etc.), poor direction and weak 3D conversions have killed the format.

You compare something like Way of Water in HFR 3D to your typical post-converted MCU slop in 3D and it's like the difference between a five star restaurant and a Big Mac with a hair in it, and that's before you talk about the actual theatrical experience that varies depending on your theater's projection technology.

Just too many variables at play that need to line up perfectly for a great experience and more often than not, you're not getting it. It's a shame, but it is what it is.
 
buttzilla

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Dang, I'm one of the few peeps that caught Gemini Man in 3D at 120fps. Flawless showing, the verisimilitude of what was on screen could not have been beat except for a live stunt show at a theme park. One of the coolest experiences ever.

A shame, I would love to see more action oriented films in HFR.
 
scitek

scitek

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Oct 27, 2017
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Gemini Man wasn't a very good movie regardless of how it was shot, but he's not wrong about the experience. I'm sure bright, 120fps 3D with zero crosstalk looks awesome, but I'll never be able to see it because I don't live near any theater that has the equipment to show it.
 
Masterz1337

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Oct 25, 2017
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I feel like I am beating a dead horse with my posts, but watching 3D movies in the Apple Vision Pro is just a total step up in experience even compared to theaters. Let it be the new immersive video formats, or just watching stuff like spider verse on a screen that takes up your whole vision. 3D TVs were mostly trash, theaters rarely are able to overcome the dimness of the glasses and so many films are just converted. The real native stuff like Avatar is of course good, but it takes on a whole dimension with that headset.
 
caliph95

caliph95

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Oct 25, 2017
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Kinda glad the HFR experiment is over for now lol
Seems like Cameron only one who can pull it off from what I heard and he only does it for select scenes
 
jotun?

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Zulith said:
As a gamer, you want to love HFR movies but it is such a brain shock that it's hard to get past. I still think it makes CGI and heavy action scenes look better, you can follow the action much clearer.
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That's part of the problem though. When everything is more clear, it becomes more obvious that things are choreographed or otherwise faked. Even at standard framerates its gotta be very difficult to make action sequences look believable, and at higher framerates it becomes even harder
 
plagiarize

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snausages said:
Not sure what the projector technology he's talking about is, but Gravity lives rent free in my brain as the single most immersive media experience I've ever had, and I include Half Life Alyx in that comparison. To the point I'd gatekeep and say you haven't even truly seen the film if it was in 2D

But every other 3D experience I've had was pointless and shit. Maybe that's what he means by bad filmmakers
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He filmed his Will Smith movie at 120 fps 3d and I believe it was shown in a tiny number of movie theaters that way. That's probably what he's referencing.
 
Specific Power Ranger

Specific Power Ranger

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Oct 25, 2017
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snausages said:
Not sure what the projector technology he's talking about is, but Gravity lives rent free in my brain as the single most immersive media experience I've ever had, and I include Half Life Alyx in that comparison. To the point I'd gatekeep and say you haven't even truly seen the film if it was in 2D

But every other 3D experience I've had was pointless and shit. Maybe that's what he means by bad filmmakers
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Warcraft was elevated too by 3d and honestly the hobbit movies in 3d hfr were really nice because the high frame rate not only made the CGI blend better and look more "real" it also helped with 3d elements in front of the screen not being moved such a long distance per frame.

I really like 3d movies. I also have a passive 3d TV. A lot of 3d experiences could be better but it's too bad it was pretty much dropped entirely.
 
steejee

steejee

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Oct 28, 2017
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snausages said:
Not sure what the projector technology he's talking about is, but Gravity lives rent free in my brain as the single most immersive media experience I've ever had, and I include Half Life Alyx in that comparison. To the point I'd gatekeep and say you haven't even truly seen the film if it was in 2D

But every other 3D experience I've had was pointless and shit. Maybe that's what he means by bad filmmakers
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I saw Gravity in 3D Laser IMAX and I don't think I've ever puckered my butt as much as during that movie. It was frickin' intense.
 
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