Interviewer: At the AFI tribute you talked about how much you admire Sidney when you were a kid and how much you wanted to be like Sidney and how you wanted to walk like Sidney. Talk about that for us.

Denzel Washington: To be honest with you, I didn’t I didn’t know who he was as a kid, I really wasn’t a movie buff. So I didn’t, we didn’t go to the movies, so I wasn’t exposed to to his work. I think the first time I saw him was in a – shoot, I cant even think now, what’s the name of the play that became famous?

Interviewer: Raisin in the Sun?

Denzel Washington: Raisin in the Sun, Lorraine Hansberry. And I don’t remember if I saw it on television.

Interviewer: Wait a minute.

Denzel Washington: Or when I was vacuuming and they had this movie, I think it was called Caged, about these women in prison, I remember when we get stabbed with a fork, Spartacus was a big one. But I just remember when I when I first saw Sidney, I was like, man, this guy’s all over the place and jumping up on tables. He’s just. You know, when I when I started acting, which was twenty three years ago in 1975, that’s when I started really looking at his work and studying him because again, there was nobody to look at that looked like me. I mean, you had, you know, people who danced and women who who cleaned other people’s houses.

Interviewer: And sang.

Denzel Washington: And sang. Exactly. And sang and things like that. But but not you know, I was you know, we all were very serious actors and there weren’t a lot of serious black actors for us to to to emulate to follow, to admire. There was Sidney, it was it was James Earl Jones on stage. That’s what I remember.

Interviewer: Yeah, I still remember. I don’t think I don’t remember seeing anything more electric than Sidney in Raisin in the Sun.

Denzel Washington: Raisin in the Sun. Yeah.

Interviewer: Boy, and the work in that. The fact that family was also electric.

Denzel Washington: Right, right. Excellent cast. Lou Gossett was in there.

Interviewer: Right, but that passion. Walter Lee.

Denzel Washington: Yeah. Willie Man. We use to do- imitate him. Williy Man, Willy Not that money. Where’s the money? The money is gone. I forgot, it was was a guy, giy’s name is Willy Harris. Not that money, Willy. It’s like all of his hopes and dreams, you know.

Interviewer: Yeah. So so for yo, what kind of how are you affected by the rules that you play?

Denzel Washington: Well, you know, again, I mean, it was he was the only one it wasn’t even like comparing his roles to other roles, really, as far as I saw, there wasn’t anything else, especially like I said, once I became an actor, there wasn’t anything else to look at. You know, in 1975 maybe the Negro ensemble company was doing some stuff in theater, some of which was going to television like River Niger and a couple of movies like Claudine maybe. But there wasn’t a whole lot that I remember, you know, so-called black exploitation pictures, you know, was like you could be Sidney or Superfly, you know. You know, a lot of people wanted to be like Shaft. That was a big thing. Again, I’m talking about in the black community where I grew up.

Interviewer: Why Sidney? Why do you think this kid who was in Nassau until he was 15? Oh boy.

Denzel Washington: Why Sidney?

Interviewer: Yeah, why. I mean, he was the only one out there.

Denzel Washington: No, he wasn’t. He was he was the only one. There was another actor, James Edwards, I think his name was.

Interviewer: Yeah.

Denzel Washington: Who who was out there. And from what I hear, very outspoken and was sort of overlooked. There was another fine actor named Canada Lee who Sindey worked with and was quite a beloved country, but. You know, I think society was ready for someone like him, and he was such a gentleman, a fine actor. I think that and I’m not knocking him in any way. I think he was acceptable. I think he was accepted. I don’t think he was a threat. You know, just like I don’t think Jackie Robinson was a threat. I’m not talking about who the men men were. I’m talking about how they were perceived by white society in America. You know, they weren’t threatening. They were nice colored people and, you know. Aside from his great talent, you know, he was obviously very talented, very charismatic. He came along at a time where white people were willing to to to have a sexual leading man on screen and would go to see him, you know.

Interviewer: One.

Denzel Washington: One yeah, one, you know, I heard it many times in my career. Oh, you’re the next Sidney Poitier. I said, you know, that’s the most racist thing I’ve ever heard in my life. Because you’re saying you can only be one person at a time. It was one 40 years ago and now there is one now, you know, and you can only be compared to one other person and that person has to be black and that’s who you are. And we we’ve decided who what you are, what category, and see you later. That’s who you are. I always resented that. Excuse me, at the same time, I was like, OK, I’ll take it, you know, great actor, you know, wonderful human being, you know, positive, positive, positive, positive person, kind man, very kind man.

Interviewer: Tell me the first time you walked up to him and introduced yourself?

Denzel Washington: He, you know, he won’t remember. But I actually met Sidney at a bookstore below the Beverly Wilshire Hotel. Must have been about 1978. Probably the first time I came to Los Angeles, I was studying up at the American Conservatory Theater in San Francisco and I came down here that spring to check out Hollywood. And I met him. And of course I ran in my car and got my picture and resume like any bad actor would, green actor would do. And he was very much a gentleman. No, I don’t think now’s the time for that. I can’t accept that from you. But I think he told me where to call the where where to send it. And I was appropriately tripping over my feet and scared. And, you know, I think I let them know right away I was from Mt Vernon and he actually lived up to block. Or, I live up the block from, you know, where he used to live and.

Interviewer: Mr, Mr. Mr. Poitier.

Denzel Washington: Yeah, exactly, I don’t know what I said. I probably didn’t make any sense, probably did my entire I probably did all my scenes and everything right there on the spot. But I don’t remember. But I just remember him sort of like like calm down, young man. And that’s the first time I met him. Sidney has helped me a lot in my career.

Interviewer: In what way?

Denzel Washington: When I did Soldiers Play in New York, I remember him coming backstage and he talk to everybody and I don’t know how it ended up, just how I was alone or people were leaving or he came back. Whatever the situation was, I was about to go out and he stopped me says. You know, “I like you” as only he can say it, you know, and that’s all I needed. I was like, wow, you know, and he told me, you know, to if I needed to talk to him. Now things are asking many questions, you know, give him a call. 1985, late 85, or early 86. I was offered a terrible screenplay film that I just hated to do, I called it The NIgger They Couldn’t Kill. It was this awful screenplay about this guy. I forgot what he was accused of rape. Of course, he was in the south. He raped his white woman. He didn’t do it, but he was accused of it. And they were going to hang him or electrocute him or something. And they tried to electrocute him and he didn’t die. And it was supposed to be a comedy. And they tried to hang him. And then it started raining something and they had him. It just it was just terrible, was terrible, terrible. I called it The Nigger They Couldn’t Kill. And I called Sidney. I said they dangling, you know, I don’t know what it was. One hundred thousand dollars or whatever at that time in front of me to do this. And I said, I’m I’m ill, I’m sick. What should I do? And he said to me, he said the first two or three or four pictures you make will determine how you are perceived in this industry and in this town in Hollywood. He says, if you don’t feel good about it then don’t do it. If it means you have to starve or waiit, maybe never get another opportunity. He says but the first three or four films you make will determine how you are perceived, and I had already done A Soldier’s Story with Norman and had done a film with Sidney Lumet. I said, OK, two great directors, Norman Jewison and Sidney Lumet. Then in the screenplay came along. So I turned it down because Sidney told me to. Well, he didn’t tell me to me, just suggested, he left it to me, I turned it down. And about six months later, I got a part, I met another fine director named Richard Attenborough and got a part in a movie called Cry Freedom where I got my first Oscar nomination and that was directly related to Sidney telling me to to wait, to be patient, not to, you know, for him to think I had too much to offer to settle for something. And I tell that story and I pass it on now because now I’m sort of in his shoes and young kids come up to me or ask me advice, and I always pass that story on.

Interviewer: That’s great. And that’s what he did himself.

Denzel Washington: That’s what he did. That’s what he did. That’s what he did.

Interviewer: When he had this little hole in the wall restaurant.

Denzel Washington: Right.

Interviewer: And needed to feed his family business. A men’s room attendant.

Denzel Washington: Right.

Interviewer: People talk about Sidney as the first, we’ll he’s not an African-American. He’s a Bahaman-American actor, who crossed over to white audiences. What does that mean and what value did that it had first of all, socially?

Denzel Washington: Well, at the time didn’t mean anything to me because I didn’t know what crossing over meant, you know, it wasn’t a part of my existence. So it wasn’t something pre integration. It wasn’t something to aspire to. It didn’t mean anything to me to go across town. And, you know, it wasn’t anything going on over there any better than what was going on in my own neighborhood. So that’s that’s something I heard of once I got to Hollywood, actually, crossover appeal and, you know, heard it in the music business or whatever. I don’t even you know, I don’t even like that term because somehow it suggests that you’re better when white people like you or something or you’re acceptable. So I don’t I don’t I just do what I do. And whoever likes it likes, if they don’t, they don’t. Universal appeal, I guess you’d say he he has has had and has I think it’s a testament to his charisma and his talent, you know. He just had that thing, you know, that energy, that charm, you could keep your eyes off him. When I said when I watched that Raisin in the Sun, I was like, who is this guy jumping up on the tables? And I’m a luthier or whatever he was saying. I just remember him dancing, moving. And he was he I’ve never seen anybody like that, you know. Yeah, not an actor. I’d seen Sammy Davis Jr. move, you know, on Ed Sullivan or whatever one, two times that we got to see Sammy Davis Jr.. But when I saw Sidney, it was like and once I became an actor, that was the biggest difference because I never thought about being an actor. I wanted to be Jim Brown. Sidney was OK with Jim Brown was the king to me, you know. I mean, I didn’t think about actors or I wasn’t exposed to that. It wasn’t something that I wanted. I didn’t even think about it, but.

Interviewer: So what did make you think about it. What did turn you on to acting?

Denzel Washington: What turned me on to acting? I just just kind of. In college, I started taking classes and started liking it and, you know. Found that I like being on stage.

Interviewer: When he worked at the studios. Sidney said when he was working at the studios in 50s and 60s, the only other black guy.

Denzel Washington: Cleaning up, that’s still the case sometime now. Unfortunately, sometimes that’s still the case.

Interviewer: What is?

Denzel Washington: That, that there’s still a case that you don’t see that many black people on film crews, that that’s been in my career, that it’s been that way. I made a point to change it and bring a whole bunch of people with me. And I demand that those that others are higher.

Interviewer: What is the scene now? Wat’s the change between when Sidney was the only one?

Denzel Washington: Well, that’s one that’s probably the biggest change. He’s not the only one. I think that there are more opportunities now. You know, there are more roles, I think, for African-American men, I don’t think it has meaning for women. I think that’s across the board, black or white. Obviously, it’s nowhere near as tough as it was for him, you know, like he said, come to work and be so isolated, be the only one there and and also having to carry the weight of your people. You know, I don’t think any actor or actress has to do that anymore. I don’t think I have to do that. There’s other, there’s enough of us. It’s been spread out. It’s more accepted. You know, I felt that even more maybe early in my career, but not as much now.

Interviewer: You did?

Denzel Washington: Well, that question was posed when you do interviews and and people say, you know, say, you know, you’re representing us well and keep it up and everybody loves you and you know. And you’re the only actor still with your wife or whatever they say, you know, but. I don’t. I would imagine it was a tremendous, I dont know if it was a burden but a responsibility for him.

Interviewer: Yeah, the isolation.

Denzel Washington: Yeah, yeah, because, I mean, he’s the only guy, he’s the only guy, you know, he was the only one really on that level, you know, maybe Harry Belafonte in there, you know, against entertainers, but straight actors, dramatic actors.

Interviewer: Harry And Sidney, Harry more than Sidney were very tight. And I think that at the time when it became more radical radicalized and the people who work for Martin Luther King were like… How do you think that situation affected him?

Denzel Washington: Well, I wouldn’t know enough about it to say how it affected him. I mean. You know, 1965, when Malcolm X was killed, I was 11, so I was disgusted to do too much. I mean, you know, I’ve heard it said, you know, I know I know better. You know, I know how they put themselves on the line. And I’ve heard about how sometimes they were perceived as opposed to some who were more militant or whatever, but, I’m not qualified to really to talk about because I wasn’t there and I don’t know enough about it, you know, to be honest with you.

Interviewer: What was the year that he did all those movies, Marybeth in 67?

Denzel Washington: 67?

Interviewer: You were a baby.

Denzel Washington: Heat of the night was 67.

Interviewer: He did Heat of the Night, he did To Sir, with Love, and Guess Who’s Coming to Dinner which was not my favorite.

Denzel Washington: Well AFI’s favorites.

Interviewer: Huh.

Denzel Washington: Didn’t that make the 100 list in AFI. It was like the only black person there. 100 whatever greatest movie of all time- Guess Who’s Coming to Dinner.

Interviewer: Oh, you’re kidding.

Denzel Washington: I think it’s on there.

Interviewer: Boy, that’s weird. But anyway, right after that there was an article. What was the guy’s name? Clifford Mason. The Times asked this black guy to write an article about Sidney called What Is It about Sidney Poitier that Makes White People Love Him? And it was really painful. It was a real stab. Finally worked it through. Why do you think that kind of criticism happens when somebody who is a decent man reaches the kind of level that he had?

Denzel Washington: Well, just doesn’t happen because somebody who’s decent reaches a certain level, just the times that he was living in, you know, and success and the things that were happening to and for him against this backdrop.

Interviewer: Hold it.

Denzel Washington: I think a smoke machine is going on.

Interviewer: Sorry.

Denzel Washington: Yes. Oh, what? Oh, I was talking.

Interviewer: About that.

Denzel Washington: I just think I did well, I just think that, well, first of all, who did it? You know who you know who whose newspaper was who the magazine was it?

Interviewer: It was in The New York Times.

Denzel Washington: Right.

Interviewer: They had asked,.

Denzel Washington: Yeah, well.

Interviewer: The New York Times had asked this writer.

Denzel Washington: Yeah. And they also edited and they I mean, he didn’t write exactly everything he wanted. They were looking for a certain slant. I always say, who considered a source? You know, maybe if it was for The New York Times and they had maybe they were sick of Sidney and they knew how to get at him. And I mean, I don’t know. I haven’t read the articles so I really don’t know. But I sure know about divide and conquer, you know.

Interviewer: What does that mean?

Denzel Washington: Well, it’s real simple, you know, two black people. And you tell one the other one didn’t tell the other one, the other one did it. You know, you sit back and let them go at each other, you know, so they if that writer was black writer and maybe he did feel that way, maybe he didn’t. That was obviously an angle that the paper was interested in and one that they wanted to print. You know, it’s just the time where there were two, you know. Malcolm X and Martin Luther King sort of gave us two strong sides, two strong sides of the fence to stand on, you know, and I think everybody sort of got polarized, you know, and you either here or there and. It was easier to make a decision about where somebody was, you know, and here’s a guy who was very visible, you know, a black man in America in the 60s who was very visible, wasn’t preaching the rhetoric of the Nation of Islam or Black Panthers, so was automatically categorized passive or you know, in the Martin Luther King movie, you know, I mean, we know better now. You know, both of them met the same fate. Yeah.

Interviewer: There’s an interview with Sidney, I don’t think he was much older where they asked him about his point of view as a black man, point of views as a black man. He said I was so sick of being asked about the point of view as a black man. He said I’m my own person, I read, I’m interested in science, I’m interested in astrology. I’m interested in this, I’m interested in that. Why is that whole concentration is on me as a black man. How do you feel about that?

Denzel Washington: Well, because most, uh, you know, people who interview you are lazy, so they look for the obvious. I mean, you know, people say that to me. I go, well, as a white female interviewer, you know, how does it feel to ask me that question? You know, usually people don’t think of that. Well, you know, as a black man, I as well. As a Canadian director, you start thinking about it that way, you know, it gets ridiculous, you know? Well, as a white male from North Dakota, you know, tell me about, you know, like that. That’s a point of view that all people of that color or from that place have about a certain situation. Usually just lazy reporting, reporters.

Interviewer: We are still polarized on that kind of, you know, sense.

Denzel Washington: I remember that that issue, and I think that was at a time where things were real edgy for him and I remember him getting a little uptight. I remember seeing some of that footage must have been on something I saw. I don’t remember.

Interviewer: He blew.

Denzel Washington: Yeah, yeah. That was one of the few times Sidney blew his stack publicly, you know.

Interviewer: We’re going to use it.

Denzel Washington: Yeah, good. Why not?

Interviewer: Oh, I think he was great. Um, what’s still left to be done?

Denzel Washington: About what? I don’t put too much, you know.

Interviewer: Hold it. Hold it.

Denzel Washington: You know, for me at this point, I just as an actor, filmmaker, I just want to. It has to be things that interests me, that I have a passion about. You know, what’s left to be done… where you want to start? You know, I don’t think it’s a job number one of the film industry. You know, there’s just so much to be done. You know, you look around, turn the idiot box on and see what fools we’re making of ourselves, you know, inside and outside of the Beltway and you know, travel all around the world and was sort of the laughingstock of the world, you know, people like, what are you guys doing over there? It’s like we’re childish, you know, but it’s good, you know? It’s like it’s all it’s it’s. That saying it all comes out in the wash, you know. I don’t know the whole political scene, it’s just ridiculous, but.

Interviewer: You think it’s ridculous, what’s going on in Washington, really?

Denzel Washington: I mean, it’s it’s like I don’t really think about it, you know? I mean, I just the only thing that concerns me is this, is that people have to understand that those folks in Washington don’t need 90 percent of the people to vote. They just need more than 50 percent of the vote. So if they turn everybody in America off and only five thousand people vote, doesn’t matter to them. They’re still going to their policies, they’re going to affect two or three hundred million people. So I think it’s important for people to realize that their vote is important and that they need to stay involved even while we’re wallowing through this nonsense. They need to not, uh, you know, disengage because while they need to do is win, they don’t need the hundreds of millions of people to vote. Like I said, if 5000 vote, they’re all happy as long as they get 51 percent of that 5000. But once they’re in a position of power and they can affect many of their lives in America now, 250 million or whatever.

Interviewer: That’s right. And it’s going down every right.

Denzel Washington: Yeah, of course. Why wouldn’t it? Who that’s going to run for office now. You know.

Interviewer: That’s right.

Denzel Washington: Who’s going to run for office? Somebody who’s never done anything. Who’s that guy? Yeah. Who was that? That kind of boy? You know, you gotta be careful, you know, Hitler got voted in, right?

Interviewer: That’s right.

Denzel Washington: Gotta be real careful. It’s a tricky time right now because somebody can slip in there that can really be dangerous. What’s that got to do with Sidney?

Interviewer: Well. OK, looking over the last 50 years, what would you say is Sidney’s place historically in film?

Denzel Washington: Well, he’s a pioneer, you know, he. We all. He’s like the point man, you know, he’s the car that’s out front and we all sort of been riding in his draft, you know? The African-American performers that have come since him, actors, dramatic actors, if you will, we’re all riding in his draftstill. You know, I know he pulled me along, you know, and set an example. You know, he set the standard take it or leave it like him or not, you know, and the standard is high. You know, he represents integrity, quality. You know, he’s a gentleman. You know, and a craftsman. And you don’t have to like them, but you do have to respect him. I like him as well, but I’m saying one doesn’t have to like but one must respect his work, his body of work and his ability to survive and still have a smile on his face and still be so positive, buoyant. You know, every time I talk to Sidney, he’s always upbeat. He met my father in law. In fact, we ran into him for dinner a couple of weeks ago and he was 100 percent engaged with him and just so happy to see him and to listen to whatever he had to say for that moment. And he said his peace. And Sidney was right there for him and he was gone. You know, he’s committed to each moment.

Interviewer: Yup.

Denzel Washington: Can’t ask for more than that.

Interviewer: Can’t ask for more than that. Thank you.

Denzel Washington: My pleasure.