MS. STEAD SELLERS: Hello and welcome to Washington Post Live. I’m Frances Stead Sellers, a senior writer at The Washington Post. Today we’re launching a new series called “The Optimist,” featuring conversations that inspire and inform at a moment when the pandemic is testing so very many of us. I’m delighted to introduce my inaugural guest, Mrs. Cynthia Germanotta. She’s the president and co-founder of the Born This Way Foundation.
A very warm welcome to you, Cynthia.
MS. GERMANOTTA: Thank you so much for having me. It's great to see you.
MS. STEAD SELLERS: We're just delighted. Cynthia, I think most people know the "Born This Way" song by your daughter, Lady Gaga. And I have to say I had great fun watching it last night on "Carpool Karaoke." But many people probably don't know about the foundation. Could you tell us the inaugural story, how you started it and what it meant to you?
MS. GERMANOTTA: Yes. Thank you for asking. Our story of the foundation, it's a very personal one because it's based on lived experience from my daughter. She developed mental health issues, anxiety and depression, very severely in middle school. And as a result, you know, when she began sharing her story, other young people started to feel inspired and empowered to change their lives. So, this was really born out of her struggles and the fact that she turned her life around. It wasn't easy. It was done with a lot of internal strength and support. But she wants other young people to know that they can turn their lives around, that they can be seen and heard and better equipped to deal with their struggles than she was.
So, our mission is one that's very aspirational in tone, very preventive in nature. We try to equip young people as early as possible to deal with their mental health struggles and to be kind. And our work really lies at the intersection of kindness and mental health. So, every day, we have three lofty goals. One is to make kindness cool, to validate the emotions of young people everywhere, and to eliminate the stigma surrounding mental health.
MS. STEAD SELLERS: You mentioned middle school, and I don't think of that as a time of kindness. Tell me about the importance of kindness in that stage of life and how you try to inculcate it in kids.
MS. GERMANOTTA: Yeah, well, unfortunately, 50 percent of mental health issues develop by the age of 14. So, we're right in that pocket of middle school. And kindness can truly be a key to helping turn that around. It's a very impressionable age. You know, young people are finding their way. They're stepping out. They're starting to change classrooms and mingle with other students. And it's a time of judgment.
And, unfortunately, if I speak to my daughter's story, she was very unique, and that wasn't always appreciated by her peers, and she experienced a lot of mean-spirited things. You know, isolation. You know, not being invited to parties, and many, many other things that caused her to develop this.
So, kindness is really the key. Young people who report being in kind environments--and we know this from our research--are generally mentally healthier. They have higher mental health indicator scores. And it can be as simple as teachers saying hello to students by their first name in school. So, there are many ways to instill kindness and create an environment that's not as destructive for young people.
MS. STEAD SELLERS: You mentioned making kindness cool. How do you do that? It just--those two things don't necessarily fit together in my mind, and I'd love to hear.
MS. GERMANOTTA: Well, you know, we do it by giving young people a safe environment and a platform to use their voice. They, more than anyone, are--I think people often think of young people as this disengaged and apathetic generation, and we know very differently because we work with them every day, that they're very aspirational and they're very kind and they just need to share that.
So, we've created a number of programs. One, in fact, is called "Channel Kindness," which started as a digital platform for young people to share stories of courage, bravery and resilience in their communities. They're often not depicted that way, and this platform gives them a voice. We've seen incredible acts of kindness and bravery, so much so that we started sharing it and realized that we should share it with the world. And it's now become a book of 51 very aspirational and diverse stories of kindness in communities around the United States and around the world. So, it's primarily from giving them a platform to share the wonderful acts of kindness that they're doing in their communities.
MS. STEAD SELLERS: And tell me about the importance of integrating kindness into the workplace, another part of our lives that's such an important one. What are the benefits for employers and, of course, for employees, too?
MS. GERMANOTTA: So, we realized that--you know, my daughter's fans, our supporters and followers at the foundation were entering the workforce, and we're wondering what does that look like in the workforce? Are they taking kindness with them? And we partnered with the Chamber of Kindness--sorry. We partnered with the Chamber of Commerce on a campaign called "The Business of Kindness," looking at what it does look like in the workforce and, through many different campaigns, studies and months later, realized that the benefits do fall to the bottom line in areas such as employee absenteeism, their productivity and their overall mental health in the workforce.
MS. STEAD SELLERS: You have a very forceful president--presence on Twitter as--with the #TeaWithMrsG that I've been looking at, and you have this wonderful ability to connect with people but also a huge responsibility. How do you make sure that the messages you give there are science-based and ones that people can take on into their lives?
MS. GERMANOTTA: Well, our work, I mentioned, was very important to my daughter and I from the outset of the foundation that our work be grounded in research. So, all of our programs are informed by research. So, what I share, most of what I share, is science-based and based on that research. Now, of course, during the pandemic I gleaned into my own vulnerabilities and shared some of my own struggles as well. But, for example, one of the things that I've shared that we know from our research is when a young person is struggling, whether that's a mental health or a substance abuse crisis, they prefer to speak to a peer rather than adult; yet, peers are not often very equipped to talk to them.
So that has informed a couple of our programs around peer-to-peer education and mental health education. A platform called "BeThere.org" that helps young people learn how to have the right conversations about mental health, ask the right questions and get somebody who's struggling connected to somebody who can help them. Team Mental Health First Aid is a campaign that we partnered with the National Council for Behavioral Health, and it's a training, a school-based education program, that helps young people learn to recognize and respond to somebody in a mental health crisis. So just about everything that we do is informed by research, and our programs develop around those key tenets.
We call ourselves the "gap-finders" because we look for areas where young people need support. Fortunately, nine out of 10 young people value and prioritize their mental health, but one of the greatest barriers is that they don't know where to go. So that's another area where we spend a great deal of time is connecting them to local community-based resources so that they can get the proper support.
MS. STEAD SELLERS: This is all so inspiring to hear, and I listen to it thinking about the past year and how the pandemic has exacerbated the problems you're talking about. And really many experts say the whole country is going through a mental health crisis. How has the pandemic changed the foundation's work, and how are you reaching out to people now who seem to be suffering so much from isolation?
MS. GERMANOTTA: You know, unfortunately, the pandemic, it has profoundly affected everyone, in particular, young people. I refer to this as the "second pandemic," a mental health pandemic. And I've heard so many teachers, for example, talking about the long-term effects of trauma, the long-term effects of learning loss. One of the recent studies that we conducted with Chegg showed that over 50 percent of young people are very worried about their mental health going back to school, a third have experienced depression, and a quarter know somebody with suicidal ideation. So, this is very alarming to us at the foundation.
The good news is a lot of our work is digital, so we were poised to have these really urgent and important conversations with young people. However, if you look at something like suicide, which has, you know, raised at an alarming rate, we have adjusted our work to step up to that particular cause. And it was informed by a CDC study last summer that showed that one in four young people had experienced suicide ideation or thoughts of suicide over a 30-day period last summer. And this caused us to develop a campaign called "Please Stay." It's #PleaseStay, at PleaseStay.us, and it's based on two things.
The first is finding an anchor in your life. And we partnered with our friends at Find Your Anchor, who have an incredible suicide prevention tool that challenges you to find an anchor, whether that's friends and family, 30 seconds of breathing, your favorite food, whatever brings you joy and grounds you during this time. So, one is to find your anchor.
And the second is to sign a pledge that you will stay with us. It's a pledge. I've signed it myself. It's a pledge that you can print, that you can share with other people, and the basic premise is that you will stay with us.
And there's a number of tools as well at PleaseStay.us, education about suicide, tips of how to find your anchor. There's a deck of cards that has 52 reasons why you should stay here with us. And it's a very creative and aspirational way.
The founder, Ali Borowsky, is a four-time suicide survivor herself, and I am so in awe of her bravery and courage and her willingness to help other young people avoid what she was able to do at such a young age.
MS. STEAD SELLERS: These are such important messages.
The U.S. has, for a long time, failed to prioritize mental health. Do you think now, given the trauma the country has been through, President Biden should appoint a mental health czar or take other steps to prioritize mental health?
MS. GERMANOTTA: I think anytime that we have the opportunity to do that we should. Look, we all understand the urgency of the pandemic. I mean, this may be the only time in history that the entire world is working to solve the same problem.
That said, a lot of our funds are being diverted to do that. And because, you know, I believe and we strongly believe at the foundation that we are in that second pandemic, and President Biden has acknowledged that himself, in mental health, that, yes, any way that we can we should allocate funds toward that. I think that the government, you know, should be looking at ways to do that and to expand that in communities and in schools as well. And I also feel very strongly that we'll start succeeding when we treat mental health as we do physical health, when you can go to your doctor and have a physical exam and you have conversations about your mental health as well.
MS. STEAD SELLERS: Which takes me to a question about employers. I mean, most health insurance come through employers, and we know that physical health gets better coverage than mental health. What can employers do to try and push this very key element of our needs forward?
MS. GERMANOTTA: Well, there's--fortunately, we're seeing an uptick in telehealth services. Early on in the pandemic, it was up over 40 percent. So, I think that that's an easy lift for employers. I think also for employers to have affinity groups within their organization. And, most importantly, we know from our research that at least a third of young people that work in the corporate world are not aware of the services that their companies do have. So, I think for employers to share what is available to those employees could go a long way, and there's many wonderful community-based research--resources that employers can post.
I mentioned earlier that one of the biggest barriers for young people getting help is they don't know where to go. So, anything that employers, teachers, parents, all of us can do to share those resources will be very helpful to young people.
MS. STEAD SELLERS: So, one of the challenges I have noticed in reporting on the pandemic over the past year is how often I go to experts and they say, "We don't know, we don't know, we don't know." And we report that, but now I think we're in a stage of we don't whether the pandemic will continue, when it will stop, whether the variants might affect us. How does uncertainty affect kids, in particular, and the lack of ability to take control of their environment?
MS. GERMANOTTA: It affects them in a very big way. In fact, I--one of my conversations on my teatime was about just that, that you know, we're in a time, what I call "a time of firsts," certainly a first for many young people. And, you know, the discipline of their lives has been taken away from them. The connectivity of their lives has been taken away from them. And they're sitting under these clouds of uncertainty and lack of control, and it affects them very, very deeply.
So, we've been doing all that we can to help instill some sense of discipline back into their lives and ground them, everything from them writing letters to front-line workers--I've--we've seen young people rise up and do grocery shopping for their neighbors. There are many activities that young people are engaging in to try to help them feel that sense of control.
And we're certainly urging them to stay connected. We've flipped the conversation about social distancing. We call it "physical distancing while remaining socially connected." It's incredibly important that we maintain those connections now.
MS. STEAD SELLERS: You also talk a lot about the importance of storytelling in your work. Can you tell me about how that works and the kind of stories you're hearing now?
MS. GERMANOTTA: Yes. So, storytelling. We actually learned the power of storytelling from my daughter. I mean, I'm so proud of her. When she decided to share her story with the world, she would do it on stage. I didn't quite understand it as a parent, but I learned to see that she was healing, young people were healing, and they were feeling inspired and empowered. They were saying, "Gaga, you know, how did you overcome, you know, these issues?" So, her sharing her story helped other young people share their own and realize they're not alone.
And almost 10 years ago now, we started collecting those stories and curating them, and we have hundreds, if not thousands, of stories now and, in 2017, realized that it was so important to young people, the healing power of storytelling, that we developed a digital platform called "Channel Kindness." And it's just that. We train young people in how to tell their stories. We scaffold them with adult support. And they write stories of resilience and bravery in their communities.
And I can share one young woman recently wrote about during the pandemic how she was feeling, you know, isolated and worried about people, and young people in particular, in mental health facilities and developed something called "Solely Sunshine," where she invites people to go onto that site, write letters to young people in mental health facilities. She rewrites them in very colorful and encouraging ways and sends them off.
And we have hundreds of stories like this of young people that are rising to the occasion, so much so we decided to share it with the world in a new book that's about a year old now, called "Channel Kindness," stories [audio distortion]. But this is mostly a hit song for young people because it's 51 that have written their own stories of kindness and resilience and optimism.
MS. STEAD SELLERS: You mentioned that you didn't quite understand it when your daughter started sharing her story. I think this is very key in this generation, that parents often don't understand the way kids communicate now, particularly on social media. Can you talk about how you address some of those things, the challenges, the intergenerational challenges, understanding how our kids are able to communicate in ways we weren't able to?
MS. GERMANOTTA: I mean, this is something I personally struggled with were intergenerational differences. I mean, I grew up in a time and a home where your emotions weren't really discussed. It was, I'll call it, "the time of true grit." I grew up in West Virginia, and you just got on with it. So, my behavior patterns were more along those lines.
And, you know, I think as parents we immediately go into protect-and-fix-it mode, you know, with our children. So, I had to really start to not just listen but understand what my children were saying to me and validate their emotions and--you know, and learn that they were real, what they were experiencing was real.
With social media, it's another place, another venue for young people to go. I talk about using it wisely, the wise freedom of using social media, because it can be used for good, which it should, but we also see a lot of harassment, you know, online. But, on a positive note, it's also a place of community for young people, especially if you look at at-risk communities, whether that's LGBTQ, African American communities, AAPI, are finding a sense of community and a source of comfort on social media. So, we foster the wise use of social media at Born This Way Foundation.
MS. STEAD SELLERS: Right. And, of course, we see young people watching movies together but in separate places and communicating on social media in a way that would have been unheard of when you and I were growing up.
MS. GERMANOTTA: It's a foreign language to us.
MS. STEAD SELLERS: I'm having a little bit of trouble with your internet connection at the moment, but let's go on. We have lots of questions, as you can imagine, from our audience, and I'd like to read some of them to you.
The first one comes from Dominique McLerran in Colorado, and we have to think a little bit about the trauma everybody has been going through in that state and beyond. Dominique McLaren asks, "How do I give my middle schooler hope for the future and instill optimism in him when things seem so bad?"
MS. GERMANOTTA: This is such a great question, Dominique. You know, I've been thinking a lot about optimism, and I think it has to be covered with a dose of reality as well, and I think that's the best thing that we can do for our children. You can be an optimist, but you can also not be okay, you know, at certain points in time.
And I think one of the things that young people struggle with is feeling that everything that happens to them is permanent. So, I think, you know, any way that you can have conversations with the children in your life about trying to remember a time that was better, to help them see that these are temporary situations and that they're not going to last forever, will help them cope. I think, you know, trying to model conversations around kindness and empathy. I think focusing on their effort rather than their results, to try to reduce the stress in their life and help them feel more optimistic, are just a few of the tips that I can give.
But we all need the optimism. The good news is I think it's very contagious. But we also have to have the reality in that as well.
MS. STEAD SELLERS: That message of efforts rather than results resonates with me.
Let me go to another question. This one is from Jeanne Blake in Massachusetts. She writes, "Your daughter seems so resilient and confident. How did you foster her resiliency growing up?" That's a great question.
MS. GERMANOTTA: We fostered it--I think this is how we fostered it, by allowing her to explore. You know, we could see very clearly the differences between a passion and a hobby. So, we allowed her to explore that. We allowed her to fail. We talked to her very candidly about failure and ensuring her that she would fail, that we're human beings, we're fallible, and this will happen, and what are some of the coping mechanisms for getting beyond that.
I will also say I did not get all of this right. I made a lot of mistakes. I wish I had known the warning signs to look for, for mental health issues. I do now. But I would encourage everyone to try to educate themselves around that. I think, you know, when young people are growing up, we think it's just normal teenage behavior, but there are some true warning signs that we can look for.
MS. STEAD SELLERS: I think being a parent is all about making mistakes.
And, another question. This one comes from Lawrence Masserma in Georgia, who writes, "Technology can be helpful in times of social isolation. But, do you see it doing more harm than good for kids during the pandemic?" You've spoken a little about this, but maybe you can address that head-on.
MS. GERMANOTTA: Yeah, I have to say that I see it doing more good than I do harm. It is really--you know, just think about our school life and the fact that it has now become remote for children. Without technology, we would not have that capability for that to happen. Without technology, they wouldn't be able to maybe see and talk to their grandparents. Without technology, they wouldn't be able to maybe learn a new musical instrument. So, I personally see it doing much more good than I do harm, and I also feel it's up to us to try to guide young people through that now.
I also have empathy. I have empathy for parents that have become teachers, that are working from home. So, they're working double and triple duty, trying to figure all of these things out. But, collectively, we can do it.
MS. STEAD SELLERS: You talked about kids getting involved in grocery shopping for other people, and these, of course, are acts of altruism. Tell us a little bit about the importance of doing things for other people at the same time as looking after yourself. Where is the balance there?
MS. GERMANOTTA: Well, the balance--I mean, we talk a lot about not only kindness and empathy and doing for others but also self-care. And, to me, therein lies the balance is--you know, the old conversation about the glass being half-full or empty. The glass has to be full, your own personal glass, before you can pour into somebody else's cup. And so, you know, trying to balance doing for others with self-care is something we encourage very strongly now and have a lot of tips about how to do that at BornThisWay.Foundation.
MS. STEAD SELLERS: Cynthia, what's the big lesson we should take away from this pandemic? What would you like to see us learning from it as we go ahead?
MS. GERMANOTTA: I'd like to see us learn resilience and learn optimism. You know, I've seen people, unfortunately, now learning optimism and resilience out of necessity. It's a question of survival.
And I think if we look at the collective and what we can do as a collective, what humanity can do together, I think there's an incredible lesson for us to take away from this. And it's--and it's being done in so many incredible ways through acts of kindness and through--I've seen people reach out more now than ever. We're tapping into those feelings of kindness and empathy because we all share this bond of the pandemic and we know what it's like. I don't think that there's any one person that's had an easy time of it. So, in the collective, I think the resilience and the kindness that is coming about.
MS. STEAD SELLERS: And are you optimistic those lessons will last?
MS. GERMANOTTA: I definitely am. You know. And I--the way I feel about optimism is it's--it helps you if done the right way. It's not simply about wishful thinking optimism, but it's about understanding what's happening around you and then looking within you to see how you can effect change. And so, to me, that is the biggest thing about optimism. I do think it's lasting if we look at it that way.
I'm also not naïve. You know, life is full of obstacles, but I think if we try to look at it as temporary and continue to work together to effect change and overcome these things as we have been doing with the pandemic, I think it can be a resilience tool that can be everlasting.
MS. STEAD SELLERS: Cynthia, I think I have time for one last question, and it's really about you. How do you practice self-care? What do you do for yourself to make sure that you can continue supporting the people around you?
MS. GERMANOTTA: I've been doing a couple of things. One I started doing more strongly during the pandemic, which was leaning into my own vulnerabilities and talking about it. I also--every morning I read an inspirational passage from a book. It could be anything that brings you joy. That grounds me for the day. And then I write in a gratitude journal three things that I am grateful for as well as lessons that I've learned during the pandemic. And it sounds like just an exercise, but when you start to read this body of work it's very, very meaningful.
And then, secondly, I'm a huge believer in movement. So, whether that's power walking in the park, you know, taking a Zoom ballet lesson, you know, anything I can do to not only physically, but also emotionally and spiritually, keep myself grounded.
So, I've been turning to that. You know, there's fits and starts with it, but it's been very helpful, a very helpful guide.
MS. STEAD SELLERS: I think we all know those fits and starts, but those are great words of wisdom. Cynthia Germanotta, thank you so much for joining me today.
MS. GERMANOTTA: Thank you very much, Frances, for having me. Honored.
MS. STEAD SELLERS: We were delighted.
A reminder that you can sign up for The Washington Post “Optimist” newsletter to get stories of kindness, resilience and the best among us delivered to your inbox every Wednesday and Sunday. Go to wapo.st/optimistnewsletter. You can see there on your screen.
And we have lots more in store for you. Tonight, at 5:30 Eastern, Senator Chris Murphy will be here, along with NBA star Draymond Green. Don't miss it. It'll be a great show.
Thank you so much for joining me. I'm Frances Stead Sellers.
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