Photo by Caesar Carbajal
Joseph Williams of Toto, which plays Ruth Eckerd Hall in Clearwater, Florida on May 8, 2024.
Frontman Joseph Williams (who initially met guitarist Steve Lukather in high school) helped to create his buddy’s new solo record Bridges, which features plenty of Toto alum, songs about not slowing down, and the production, guitar licks, and lyrics you’d expect to hear from a group trying to modernize its sound.
But Toto wasn’t exactly where Williams got started.
Celebrity dads can be a touchy topic. Sean Ono Lennon, Duncan Jones, and—believe it or not—David Crosby all made it in their respective careers without the help of their fabled dads. Though Joseph’s film composer father John is not his primary claim to fame (and their relationship is such an obscure fact that it would make a good “Trivial Pursuit” prompt), “Star Wars” has remained an impactful part of the 63-year-old’s life ever since it first released in 1977.
“For the first one ["Episode IV: A New Hope"], after a few times, I went back to see it and got in line the night before,” he told Creative Loafing Tampa Bay during a recent phone call. And it wasn’t just the family factor of the films that makes the space opera franchise so special to Williams.
In 1983, upon the release of “Return of the Jedi,” he wrote two songs in the film: "Lapti Nek"—performed by Jabba the Hutt’s palace band—and “Ewok Celebration,” which plays during the final scene that depicts the celebration of Darth Vader’s demise. Unfortunately for Williams, when the upgraded, special editions of the original trilogy were released, both of his songs were cut, without him knowing beforehand. “I wasn't crazy about what they replaced it with. It was a shame, but they’re [Lucas’] movies, and he can do what he wants to,” he explained, later adding that he felt that the CGI additions were astounding.
Not that you’ll hear any “Star Wars” talk when Toto returns to Clearwater’s Ruth Eckerd Hall on Wednesday, but you might learn a few other interesting factoids about where certain band members have been. Keyboardist Greg Phillinganes worked closely with Michael Jackson, and even appeared on Stevie Wonder’s legendary Songs in the Key of Life. And surely Lukather will mention his days working with the likes of Steely Dan and Cher.
Tickets to see Toto play Clearwater’s Ruth Eckerd Hall on Wednesday, May 8 are still available and start at $48.25.
Read our full Q&A with Joseph Williams below.
As it turns out, you and Steve Lukather have known each other since you were teenagers, and after a few years apart, your paths crossed again in the ‘80s. How did you guys first meet?
Well, I think we first met when I went to see him play with his band at a high school dance, somewhere around 1974 or 75. Somewhere in there. That's where we originally met. And then, we met up again in ’81, when I was doing my solo record. He came in to do some solos.
And the rest is history.
Exactly.
Right on. I definitely wanted to talk about the recording of Bridges. Even though it's technically not a Toto album, I know you were still heavily involved in the making of it. What was the songwriting process on that?
Yeah, we just set up his rig over at my studio, he came down every day and we just chipped away at it, one song at a time. We had a couple of people over to collaborate, like his son Trevor, who came up with a piece. And, you know, we just we just worked at it every day.
How did you approach Stan Lynch to write songs with you? Because until recently, he had been hiding in the shadows since Tom Petty gave him the boot.
He's remained very close with Luke over the years, and they just have a relationship where Luke can call him up and ask him to work on something pretty much any time. He’s a very sweet guy, and he's a fantastic lyricist, so we just called them up. I mean, Luke's real tight with him.
Was Stan asked if he wanted to drum on the album at all, or did you guys know from the start that you wanted Simon Phillips and Shannon Forrest on the kit?
We kind of had it in our minds who we were going to have drum, but to be honest with you, I don't even know the answer to that. I'm not sure if that part of the question was broached between him and Luke.
OK. Leland Sklar also appeared on the album. You have any stories about working with him?
Well Leland, you know, he was great. I mean, he toured with us for a little bit back in the teens, and he also did some bass on my solo album, Denizen Tenant. He's a great guy to work with. Real interesting guy. He's very open and generous with what he does. And he doesn't sleep very much on the buses is what I remember. He was always in one of the lounges, chilling and doing his thing. Reading. Very sweet cat, just a great advisory type of personality, and an amazing player.
And carrier of the most mystical beard in the world.
He is, he's Father Time.
Or Gandalf, depending on the day.
Speaking of nerd stuff, let's jump into “Star Wars” a little bit. Obviously, one of your first big gigs as an artist after your solo album came out was writing “Ewok Celebration” for “Return of the Jedi,” and that is no small feat. Did your dad just come to you one day and ask if you wanted to write something for “Star Wars?”
Pretty much. I mean, he had the basis of it, he just wanted me to write some words and finish it off. That sort of thing. And it was great. I mean, it was a relatively easy project, and are you kidding me? I was stoked to do it, because I grew up a Star Wars nerd, for sure.
I assume you saw the first two films in theaters?
Of course! I stood in line and did the whole thing. For the first one, after a few times, I went back to see it and got in line the night before.
It’s definitely the important things in life. But when the special editions came out in the ‘90s, did you know that “Ewok Celebration” was going to be cut from “Jedi?”
I did not know, and I was very bummed to see that it was. And I wasn't crazy about what they replaced it with. It was a shame, but they’re [Lucas’] movies, and he can do what he wants to. And the other thing was that I also co-wrote the original Snooty tune, so same thing there. But the replacement was good. I mean, he reanimated the character and it was much better than the original puppet. But yeah, I was bummed that they got changed. But I got a chance to do something else that that will remain, so I'm okay. I did get to do the parade at the end of "Episode One."
Right, after they cremated Qui-Gon. What do you think of all the new Star Wars material that’s coming out? Ludwig Göransson did a solid job with the score to “The Mandalorian.”
I loved “The Mandalorian,” and I really enjoyed “Ahsoka.” I thought that was very cool. I loved and got a lot out of the Obi-Wan series. I dig a lot of it, I really do. I was also a fan of the “Rebels” animated series, and I loved how Ahsoka took over from there.
Totally with you there, and man, “Obi-Wan” was so good. I loved how they got McGregor and Liam Neeson back for that.
Absolutely.
One more nerd thing, and then I’ll move on. I remember you guys covered “Hash Pipe” by Weezer in 2018 after they covered “Africa.” Where was the band at when that happened? Like, did you have any communication with Weezer during the making of your version?
I personally did not, but we sat down as a band, we were working on the Old Is New project and 40 Trips Around The Sun. They did “Africa,” and we decided “what's one of their songs that we could do to sort of reciprocate? Who knows? Maybe it'll be fun.” And we listened to a couple of tunes, we heard “Hash Pipe” and thought “this will be fun. Let's do this as a real rocker, and see what it’s like.”
Do you remember the other contenders that you had up against “Hash Pipe?”
Not off the top of my head, but whatever their big hit was, I forget the name of it.
“Buddy Holly?”
Maybe so, yeah. I mean, when I came into the studio, and we were talking about what to do, Steve Porcaro already had “Hash Pipe” up and was suggesting that we do that, so I wasn't part of many of the other discussions, but for a minute, I think we were thinking of doing their biggest hit, seeing as they did ours, but we decided that “Hash Pipe” would be more fun.
I saw that Shannon Forrest and Greg Phillinganes are both back in Toto. What drove you guys to get them back?
We knew that we were gonna be losing Dominique [Taplin] and [Robert] Sput [Searight], and so we were trying to fill those slots. We went through a couple of different ideas and ways to do it, but eventually, we knew we were going to have Shannon back, which was great. I mean, he plays the most like Jeff [Porcaro] of any of the people that we've had. Not that Sput wasn't great, too. We had a great time with him. He left on great terms and all that. It was just time.
And then, with the keyboard player, [Steve] Maggiora was going to play piano for two minutes, and we started to work with a couple of people for the other slot, but it just didn't pan out. And then, Luke thought “well, I guess if Greg calls, we’ll see if he’s up for it.” He was. And we benefit from it. He's incredible. As a singer, it's a night-and-day to have somebody as great as he is on the piano. He just has such a great touch, because I'm listening mostly to piano for pitch and that stuff, so he's great. We’re very thrilled to have him back.
Nice. So, I’m only asking this because I've never seen Toto live: When you guys are doing your band intros, do you ever go into talking about the most notable session work each member has done? Because Greg played on Songs In The Key of Life, and that’s pretty huge.
It is. And yeah, Luke sort of introduces the band, and then I introduce Luke. But as he goes around, he does touch on some of the work that the guys have done in the in the band. It's a lot of stuff between all of us, a lot of tunes and material. I think the ones Luke focuses on with Greg are the Michael Jackson stuff.
That’s fair. So, I want to give you some breathing room before either soundcheck or your next interview, so I’ve got two more for you: With all the new “Dune" movies coming out, did you guys hold out hope for being approached to make the soundtrack like the original Toto did back in the 80s?
No, I don't think so. I mean, that was a little bit of a fluke anyway, and largely in part of David Paich and his father Marty Paich, who was a great conductor and arranger who had his feet deep into the film scoring world. I wasn’t really involved with the original Dune that they did. But even though I had years of being a composer during the late ‘90s and early 2000s, it’s just that we weren’t expecting it. I mean, the filmmakers changed and there are a lot of great new guys out there that probably were more suited to it, so we weren’t expecting it.
One more question for you, and I asked this to all the musicians I talked to. Do you have any advice to offer to young and up-and-coming artists on the scene?
Well, you know, my daughter is a young, up-and-coming artist, and I give her the same advice: Keep writing, keep practicing, even if you’re in a situation where you’re not getting the attention that you want to get, you gotta just keep working at your craft. And also, get out there and see bands. Try and meet some people, and stay social, because that’s how you’re going to make connections to move to the next step. You can’t just sit back and rest on your laurels, not be writing constantly and moving around in circles so you get some introductions and stuff. That’s what’s important these days. And if you’re already putting out material, keep putting it out and work towards getting those listens, you know?
Definitely. I didn’t know your daughter was a musician.
Yeah. I have two daughters. They're both great singers, but one is being a mother right now, so I’m a grandfather, and my younger one is an incredible singer-songwriter. Just made an album. The band is called Smack Champion. It's out there if you want to take a listen, but they're great. So you know, she's been at it for a while.
Sick. What kind of music does Smack Champion make?
So it's sort of a hybrid. It's sort of British rock meets American country.
This interview has been edited for clarity and length.
UPDATED: 05/05/24 1:36 p.m. There are no legal issues prohibiting Toto from releasing music under that moniker. However, there is a concern in place that protects the trademark. Should Luke, Dave and Joe opt to approach releasing music in the future as Toto, versus collaborating on their individual solo releases, it is simply a matter of formalizing that move with the entity that protects the mark.
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