I think he said this during the Anthology documentary or in the book.
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I don't want to speculate on what he meant, but George Martin would not have added all the strings and stuff that Spector added, and he sure as hell wouldn't have let Get Back, which is absolutely tailor-made as an album opener, be shelved at the end of the album.
Produced by George Martin, over produced by Phil Spector.
To be fair having get back at the end was probably because the movie (the OG let it be) ended with get back. That's why they added Lennon's little quip at the end
Agreed. That’s like putting Back in the USSR anywhere but as an opener. I consider that the ultimate opening track with landing intro
I'm with you on that. I could not imagine any other song kicking off the White Album.
He was a fan of strings though
When the songs required them.
TLAR is a prime example of overproducing a song
edit: TLAWR*
Spector’s Across the Universe is even worse!
TLAR? sorry, I’m blanking on what song this is a shorthand for
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But he did kidnap the tapes for John’s Rock n Roll album in 1974-75
I knew someone was going to bring that up. I didn’t think it was going to be immediately.
😝😝🤪🤪
It led to a major falling out with Spector as well.
It’s not unprecedented but George Martin’s stuff like that was done with the band, he didn’t take it upon himself to do that
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They were all exhausted and fighting constantly, Paul was fuming because of how Spector ruined TLAWR, etc. It only got released because they wanted to get it over with.
Not disputing that -- John had quit six months earlier and I don't really think George, Ringo or Paul really gave a shit either way by the time Let it Be was released.
Paul famously wrote a letter to Spector practically demanding the Strings be removed from LAWR, which Spector ignored.
I get the feeling Now & Then was added to the Blue Album by Paul so the Blue Album no longer ends with a version of a Paul song that Paul fundamentally did not like.
Maybe it gives Paul the last word or maybe it’s to create a more equal finish with a back and forth of Long and Winding Road as a version Paul did not agree with but John okayed as finished followed by a John song whose completion was overseen by Paul without John.
I recall a quote by John sort of defending Spector’s effort, paraphrasing: Spector had to go through hours of shit to produce an album
So aside from Spector’s production techniques, he did have to pull scattered performances off hours of tape to get to an album. Probably not an easy task
Lennon said: "He was given the shittiest load of badly recorded shit – and with a lousy feeling to it – ever. And he made something out of it. He did a great job”
It's not the mere addition of orchestral instruments, it's the massive effect produced when Spector did it (the orchestral orgasm in "A Day in the Life" doesn't count here, as it is an effect in and of of itself, and has nothing to do with how Spector would orchestrate). Spector's approach was even nick-named "the wall of sound."
Oddly, Spector's style could also be syrup-y, too.
On the other hand, the counter-lines he wrote and orchestrated for "The Long and Winding Road" in the instrumental section (before getting back to the verse, at 1:26, with the lyric "Many times. . . .") are absolutely great, and while I hate what he did to that tune, I'd keep those counter-lines, they just fit right in.
The "too much reverb" aspect of it.
The "too much everything" aspect of it as well.
The man did not understand the concept of being understated.
Plastic Ono Band is pretty understated
This probably explains why:
(Wikipedia)
First...I can't stand what Spector did. I am a LIB Naked man. Having said that.. and at the risk of a deluge of downvotes...
Maybe some sour grapes from GM? He was not really involved in the project.
The original idea was no overdubs, live recording, etc. Not GM's cup of tea. Which makes Spector's arrival a year later ironic.
I am a huge Beatles fan. I try to be objective. Let It Be does "sound like other people's stuff."
I don't think that was Spector's fault.
And I don't think that's bad.
The Beatles were still producing great music that sold millions and that we love so much. But, the Stones, The Who, early Zeppelin, CCR, CSN+Y, The Band, Dylan were all producing excellent music. They were inventing what we call classic rock.
From '63 - '67, The Beatles were innovating album after album. From The White Album on, did you ever say "Wow! I never heard anything like that before." Again...not saying it wasn't amazing music. But I wouldn't use the term "innovative."
So...they kind of did sound like other artists...other *legendary" artists. And that's perfectly fine.
Your comment is spot on as far as innovation taking a step down. Luckily, the Beatles songwriting was still so strong that those final albums are still iconic and immortal. At least imo
Exactly my point. Shows the strength of their songwriting if you think about it. No real effects, backwards guitar, etc. Just excellent songwriting.
Totally, well said. Now you have me wondering what could’ve been had they still carried over some of the innovation as well. Either way, i can’t complain about the catalog we’ve got though haha
Their music is brilliant. No question. They were done innovating, I guess. That's the big statement of The White Album, I think. Strip it down.
LIB naked is the truth.
It literally isn’t. It’s an edited creation, just like every other presentation of those sessions.
Also has a deadened, staccato quality. Just the songs lined up, with a hushed, antiseptic quality.
Preach
I'd love to read your notes on which songs you feel sound like which other artists stuff.
My main point is that they weren't innovative.
Two Of Us? Across The Universe? Sounds pretty LA singer/songwriter to me. Excellent songs.
Let It Be? Long/Winding Road? - Pop ballads. Naked versions are excellent
Dig a Pony? One After 909? I've Got a Feeling? Get Back? - really good rock and roll songs.
All really good songs that I love. Innovative?
Idk, to me the Beatles always borrowed heavily from other artists. They were a cover band originally. Their magic was in making whatever they were borrowing from sound like the Beatles and to take a good sound and make it better
Absolutely!
But songs like Tomorrow Never Knows, Strawberry Fields, A Day in the Life, Within You Without You, etc. Nobody heard shit like that before.
Honestly good points once I thought about it. In counter, I do think Dig a Pony is innovative. I can't see another band pulling that one out and sounding as good. It almost has an R&B quality to it that I don't necessarily feel like existed at the time.
"Because" was pretty innovative. No one sounded like that; they still had innovation in them, and extraordinary talent. Certainly the medley on Abbey Road was unique, although that was more a genius of production than songwriting. But the group was over by then.
Because is a great song but harmony vocals, great as they might be, are not innovative. Thats 90% of CSNY songs.
The Medley is an incredible. But The Who released Tommy in May, '69. Abbey Road was Sept. '69. And The Who also did A Quick One 2 years prior.
I mean, you can pick comps for every song that ever existed and call it unoriginal
All musicians have always done that. That's true. I didn't say that their later stuff was unoriginal or derivative. It wasn't. The songwriting remained incredible. Just not innovative.
He's right tho. The original Get Back project plus Across The Universe & I Me Mine is perfect. I don't like the Let It Be album but i love & really enjoy Get Back.
I also did my own version of Get Back by combining some tracks from LIB Naked, OG Get Back & alternate takes.
Me too!
https://open.spotify.com/playlist/3XMFq4oYHwPO4fa0LmyCKB?si=SLYjENliT_ytTJlnFJX3Ww&pi=u-NMWcZJrAS521
I wonder what George's album, All Things Must Pass would be like without all the Phil Specter wall of sounds? That would specifically be My Sweet Lord, Wah Wah and What is Life?
I remember a comment from George during the video for the remaster of ATMP when he was asked what he thought when relistening to the masters after 25 years: "Needs less echo."
The sort of de-Spectorized 2020 re-mix of the song and album is incredible.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWV4pFV5nX4
Probably not as successful. Spector's Wall of Sound makes that album pop. Without it the quality may be just as good if not better but the epicness of the sound would be lacking.
Its largesse in sound made it stand out in 1971.
I disagree with that. George’s songs on there were beautiful in their own right, and didn’t did the massive production to make them good. Personally I prefer the more toned down 50th anniversary mix by far, which feels closer to what GM would have done.
I dread to think of what Spector would have done to Something.
All Things Must Pass Beatles demo version - beautiful and genius, All Things Must Pass on the album produced by Specter - it’s fine
Yea a lot of the demos on there are just brilliant. Run of the Mill and the Art of Dying are my favorites.
Something peaked at no4 in the UK. My Sweet Lord no1. Understated does not always mean bigger impact.
A more mellow My Sweet Lord may be better. I don't think it has the same level of success in the 70's and George needed to stand out for his debut.
Great counter-point.
You can build ATMP almost track for track two ways if you use the 50th anniversary edition.
All acoustic ATMP using demos from discs 3 and 4.
https://open.spotify.com/playlist/3XMFq4oYHwPO4fa0LmyCKB?si=SLYjENliT_ytTJlnFJX3Ww&pi=u-NMWcZJrAS521
2. A No Phil ATMP using studio rehearsals and outtakes, disc 5.
https://open.spotify.com/playlist/4IluAUV7Jf0uZg63jCzxxk?si=J8RHQEmCSBqtLjplH3GvMQ&pi=u-478vGryMQ0u1
I am surprised that an alternate takes All Things Must Pass album wasn't released after George's passing. We are treated to a stripped down version of Wah Wah and All Things Must Pass in the Get Back documentary.
Wah Wah and What is Life are atrocious
Great songs but are muddy as hell sound wise (to my ears anyway).
I’d contend that all of Phil Spector’s work with the Beatles on this album and several solo projects is probably the worst they ever sounded.
Instant Karma and POB sound great to me. Also I love your username.
OTOH Rock and Roll is a muddy blurry hot mess.
Yeah I do agree there, although I love John’s vocals on that album as a huge fan of most of the originals.
Don't forget Some Time in NYC, it wouldn't surprise me if that was partly why it wasn't received well.
Can you be more specific on why?
A lot of Beatles fans don’t like Spector’s maximalist Wall of Sound style of production, especially in comparison to George Martin’s pristine and relatively simple production. Spector liked getting a big sound with a lot of instruments and occasional overly-sappy string arrangements.
Personally, I prefer Martin’s production style, but I don’t think Spector is anywhere near as bad as people tend to make him out to be, especially in this sub. His version of Let It Be sounds pretty great after the 2021 Super Deluxe Edition, and his later work with George and John is pretty good too.
I think what also miffs people is that it was supposed to be Get Back (to your roots, stripped back) and ended up as Phil Spector’s (very much not stripped back) Let it Be. I also don’t think it’s as bad as people make it out to be but I also prefer the stripped back sound of the Naked version.
Though it has some of the same elements, “Let It Be” isn’t really an example of Spector’s “wall of sound”. The fact that it isn’t mono is one reason.
I don't think being stereo should fully exclude it, All Things Must Pass pretty much has a stereo Wall of Sound and the recording process was similar (Spector recording multiple drummers, keyboardists and guitarists simultaneously on the backing track). That said, Let it Be doesn't take it to those lengths.
Phil Spector is uncharacteristically laid back and respectful of John's wishes to stick to the bare basics on Plastic Ono Band. And his piano contribution on the song "Love" on that album is really really good.
Wah Wah was the best song for Phil's production style, elevated by lyrics moulding into his overproduction music style.
I read George Martin's "like other people's stuff" as "average" or "unremarkable." Spector seemed to thrive the most when things we're technologically simple, i.e., The Ronettes. It's like he didn't learn anything new after that and proceeded to fake it.
I honestly think the only issue with Specter's version of The Long and Winding Road is the choir. If it had just been the string and brass parts I really think they add a nice touch to the song and I prefer it to the naked version because of that. Its the choir part which muddies the mix and becomes overbearing when it comes to the fore.
John was right: Phil took those tapes and made a great album. And The Long and Winding Road is way better than the Naked version.
Single worst-sounding Beatles album.
I think the whole thing was a f you to Paul. It was mostly his vision to get back to basics ending in a live performance for Let It Be. Then later on they brought on Spector to put his mark on it and he overproduced the hell out of it…choirs, orchestras, a strange mix. This was all going on after Paul was outvoted to have Allen Klein as manager. Then Paul wrote to Klein specifically in reference to “The Long and Winding Road” complaining about the changes threatening him to “never do it again”. There was also a fight over the release date with Paul. He was on the outs with the other three. Kind of a sad ending to a beautiful band.
Spector’s decisions were certainly hit or miss. Best take of Feeling, but risible strings on Winding, and no false ending on Back.
Like a bad relationship, former Beatles returned to Phil for albums after Let It Be.
ya we do know
John Lennon became Randy Newman
Paul McCartney became Drake
George Harrison became Ian Anderson
Ringo Starr became Dany Carey
Phil Spector was creepily ahead of his time in 1969
Unpopular yet true answer: Martin was being possessive and jealous. He was used to putting his own mark on their work, so when someone else had to do it, naturally it was going to sound like “other people’s stuff”.
How you know this unpopular answer is true: when Martin had the chance to do it in the first place, he didn’t. He didn’t do it.
When someone else was brought in to do it, they didn’t do anything he wouldn’t have done (or had already done)