Ok, that makes sense especially as I just noticed that the back edge of the piston is slightly angled, I can see how it looks.
Q? Loading procedure - a quick run through please.
Q? Load?
Q? Loading procedure - a quick run through please.
Q? Load?
Moderators:The Double D, Viclav, Johnny Yuma, GrantR Canada, Carignan Salieres, researchpress, vincent998
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Study this discussion for some advice on cartridges and loads. Remember the carbine only takes a 2 dram (55 grain) charge and a lighter bullet (405 grains I think) than my rifle version:
happy-times-with-monkeytail-t8513.html
happy-times-with-monkeytail-t8513.html
Southams couldn't be bothered to reply to my enquiry as to the serial number and date of this carbine, when you get it may I ask for these tidbits for the Monkey Tail Register please. In return you'll find a bit of history on the website, and I'm always happy to answer any questions tossed at me. Rob.
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Right 
There are 2 registration numbers
7727
12449
I'll lift the barrel again and see what's underneath
The lock is away looking for a spring but I think it was dated 1874
There are 2 registration numbers
7727
12449
I'll lift the barrel again and see what's underneath
The lock is away looking for a spring but I think it was dated 1874
A serial number of 12449 would tie in with the 1874 date and should be repeated on the shoe, under the stock cheek. The 7727 is strange and I would appreciate a photo. A S.African Magistrate's number would be preceded by his identifying letter. If you are lifting the barrel could I ask you to photo/note the barrel maker (probably TT or V Millward)
Kind regards, Rob.
Kind regards, Rob.
Loading depends on whether you muzzle or breech load and with what. The Boer would ML ball for small game but BL cartridge for humans. Cartridge by 1874 would be a tailed 400 grain bullet, hardened with 5% tin, 54 grains powder. Ball (& greased patch) would generally be used with an obdurator filling the chamber behind the nipple communication channel, with greased wad between it and the piston, a second one could be employed ahead of the obdurator if more than a few shots were anticipated to stop rear end fouling jamming the breech opening. This loading flexibility was what kept the design in favour even though Westley Richards were also selling their '68, '69, '70 & '71 Pattern 'Improved Peabodys' (Martinis) at the same time.
My thanks for all the really useful info on this one gents.
I bought it out of interest intending to do the repairs, clean it a little and move it on. However it's grown on me and fits nicely between the Enfields and the various Martini types I have.
By the front trigger guard was a tacked on tin patch covering some minor splits. Also 2 loose fragments of timber in the mortise and the crack on the other side. So other than that there's not much can't be fixed and I look forward to shooting it.
Will take more pictures of numbers and markings tomorrow if the light is good.
I bought it out of interest intending to do the repairs, clean it a little and move it on. However it's grown on me and fits nicely between the Enfields and the various Martini types I have.
By the front trigger guard was a tacked on tin patch covering some minor splits. Also 2 loose fragments of timber in the mortise and the crack on the other side. So other than that there's not much can't be fixed and I look forward to shooting it.
Will take more pictures of numbers and markings tomorrow if the light is good.
Thanks for the photos. Actually it's the other way round. the Serial is 7727 and the Magistrates number is N12449. However this throws up that 7727 should have been lock dated 1873 - so next move is to match the batch numbers, to be found as described on the site, to confirm it is a matching set or replacement lock.
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So this one was out in South Africa. Fits even better then with my OVS Martini
Nothing more under the barrel than can be seen in the photograph.
WH is also repeated (as indicated by the red line) to the right of the number on the shoe
Nothing more under the barrel than can be seen in the photograph.
WH is also repeated (as indicated by the red line) to the right of the number on the shoe
That's W over WR, not WH. HW (MH?) is the inspector's mark, which you would expect to find repeated on the lock, & perhaps some of the trigger area components; it will be interesting to see if the rest of the gun accords with the unusual batch number of '8'. They are more commonly marked with chisel hatches or punched dots.
Walt4thva wrote:I have an 1861 Enfield Carbine reproduction rear sight. It is currently on a barrel. If you would like it, I will take it off. Runs the risk of getting a little messed up-maybe discolored-it was welded on by the manufacturer. No charge—just whatever the shipping is from US (New York).yulzari wrote:I have never come across any M-T spare parts other than Dyson's nipples. If you find any sign of a spare rear sight let me know. My Indian temporary one just doesn't look right. I may have to give way and buy a replacement Enfield carbine Italian repro sight one day but, with postage, it comes to 1/3 of the cost of the rifle.
Walt4thva
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PM sent Wal4hva. Missed you post in getting to grips with the new system. John
Before you jump at the offer can I warn you that the Monkey Tail rearsight sight has the hinge to the front, with the scale hidden when the ladder is down. The Enfield is rear hinged. (Ampco Enfield nipples fit 'tails and are available off the shelf, they are made for both No. 11 and Musket caps).
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Taken note and thank you for the offer. I'm probably not going to get another MT requiring parts and except for the main spring and but flap plus the usual work this one will do.
My thanks to Walt4thva for the Enfield carbine sight he has so kindly sent me. Well done USPS and La Poste. Got to me in France 3 days after posting in the USA.
I have just tried it against the solder patch on my Monkey-Tail Carbine left by the missing sight and it fits perfectly. Westley Richards must have used the Enfield pattern with the scale reversed on the scale bar. Looks so much better than the Indian quasi Pattern 53 rifle temporary one. I will leave the scale bar as it is so that no one will take it as being original. Now I must solder the Indian one back on the trashed remains of the Indian bazaar Pattern 1853 copy and sell it as a deco piece to get my €50 back again. Worth that for the set of barrel bands alone.
Thank you again Walter. Most kind.
John
I have just tried it against the solder patch on my Monkey-Tail Carbine left by the missing sight and it fits perfectly. Westley Richards must have used the Enfield pattern with the scale reversed on the scale bar. Looks so much better than the Indian quasi Pattern 53 rifle temporary one. I will leave the scale bar as it is so that no one will take it as being original. Now I must solder the Indian one back on the trashed remains of the Indian bazaar Pattern 1853 copy and sell it as a deco piece to get my €50 back again. Worth that for the set of barrel bands alone.
Thank you again Walter. Most kind.
John
You are most welcome. The pleasure was mine.
Walt
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Walt
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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I've read the how to descriptions but really need to see images to.
I'm sure I found a discussion on preparing cartridges about the time the forum moved over to TT. This was when not all the old images had come across. The discussion I found had missing illustrations (at that time) as regards rolling your own. Anyone recognise the posts I'm referring to and if so could I have the link.
I'm sure I found a discussion on preparing cartridges about the time the forum moved over to TT. This was when not all the old images had come across. The discussion I found had missing illustrations (at that time) as regards rolling your own. Anyone recognise the posts I'm referring to and if so could I have the link.
Jon, this post of mine from 2011 shows the cartridges I was making for my M/T Carbine, along with the method(s) I used to make them. Bear in mind I didn't achieve a great deal of success accuracy-wise with my carbine, but the bore was rough &, to be honest, it was the 'kickingest' rifle I think I've ever used so I sold it off.....now I'm hankering for a M/T rifle!
viewtopic.php?f=27&t=11987&p=105055&hil ... es#p105055
viewtopic.php?f=27&t=11987&p=105055&hil ... es#p105055
