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Keane and Vieira - The best of enemies (For those who missed it)
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What does France represent to you? Vieira: "A country that gave me everything."
What does Ireland represent to you? Keane: "Frustration."
I liked that. Keane doesn't go in for nationalism for the sake of it. I'm not saying that Patrick is doing that, but Keane would never be overly sentimental about his country, and that's healthy.
Patrick is an immigrant though, so his perspective is going to be a bit different - France gave him a life he couldn't have had in Senegal. On top of that, he had incredible success with the French team. For Keano, he just has frustrations and regrets - it's sad really.
That's not to say Keane didn't love Ireland. He never knew anything but the best and wanted Ireland to be the best. He was frustrate because he saw no reason why Ireland couldn't try to win the world cup. Like Fergie said, Keane went to win it, he didn't think it was a great achievement to reach it. As an Irishman it is frustrating for me that he left as even without him we drew with Germany who made it to the final and we lost to Spain on penalties. With Keane we could have gone further.
Keane leaving the team was bad but he had a good point about preparing as well as the best teams in a fucking World Cup. If they were constrained by budget, fine.
Isn't Viera Malian though? So, moving to France at a young age as an African immigrant might be a bit different than a guy who was brought up down the south coast of Ireland.
I always thought Keane was insane but he really came across as quite likable to me here. The one thing you can say about him is that he doesn't mince words, and I'm inclined to believe him about all the SAF stories. He just strikes me as a straight shooter.
Interesting part to me was Vieira saying that Petit was the best player he played with at Arsenal. I don't think it was meant as a slight to Henry in any way, it was just his honest opinion.
Being a fellow midfielder, and having such a good understanding with him, probably means he appreciates him more. Like Bergkamp and Henry and Wright always talk about each other
Question for Arsenal and ManU fans, do you miss these days ? Have you a kind of nostalgia of the end of the nineties/early 2000's ?
I was too young to see that rivalry, was it really that good or the media just overhyped that era ?
It was that good. Every time the two sides faced each other it was a fucking melee. Two of the best sides in English history with very little to seperate them quality-wise and absolute loathing on the pitch.
As is said in the interview, there isn't that kind of animosity in football any more, and, largely, the sport is worse off for it.
The Real-barca matches in the past few years have been pretty heated, especially that stretch of 2 seasons where there were like 50 clasicos.
True, but there are so many clasicos these days that the sense of occasion has been somewhat diminished. And, anyway, there isn't the venom and sheer aggression that one got in the UnitedArsenal heyday. Gary Neville literally kicked Jose Reyes out of the Premier League.
Clasicos don't even come close, honestly. Have you seen the video Arsenal fans always post about united "kicking then off the park". Well, that sort of thing was common practice in those matches. Almost like a war zone, incredible to see how much those players hated each other.
The managers hated each other.
The captains hated each other.
The players hated each other.
The fans hated each other.
I can very well stomach a loss to Tottenham or Chelsea or United nowadays. But those days; it was just unacceptable to lose to United. I am a totally calm person; but after the Rooney penalty I was shaking with anger (that has never ever happened to me ever or since.)
United hated us because finally there was a team who was threatening to throw them off their perch. We hated United because we felt that we were the worthy champions because we played a better brand and style of football (yeah... that.)
It was a rivalry that I totally miss. And i'm sad that we slipped a level or two below United in the later years. I don't think there will be a rivalry like that again. I don't watch the el classico's.. but I doubt that they are like the United-Arsenal matches of those years.
I would love to see a rivalry that fierce again in England. Games against United was an event, nothing like I've ever experienced. Tottenham's rivalry doesn't even compare. They have never had team like United had.
Two teams that would rather break a leg than lose that game. Fucking fantastic.
Oh yes, I miss these days. There's no rivalry like it in English football right now. For years it was just Man Utd vs Arsenal for the title, with the occasional unsustained push from the likes of Liverpool, Leeds or Newcastle. And Keane and Vieira were, literally, at the centre of this rivalry.
As an Arsenal fan, Vieira could do no wrong, Keane was a dirty player who deserved nothing but shit. That was how it felt right then. Now you look back on it with less animosity and more respect and nostalgia for the rivalry that it was. I've grown to like Keane a lot more since he left retired and I hope he does a great job with the Irish team.
It was brutal. Man U - Arsenal games were far more intense than anything we have now in the EPL. Vieira and Keane look set to have a fist fight from the first whistle.
I feel like everyone here only has short term memory...people talk about incredible goals and all that but Giggs goal to win the FA cup in 99 was INCREDIBLE! a man down and he started from half field eluded something like 5 or 4 defenders to score. Historic.
Refer to this thread for 720p. Credit to u/rophel.
I loved watching this. It was great to see the rivalry between the two again. It's too bad a rivalry like this will never happen again in the Premier League.
EDIT: Grammar
You dont know that?
True but in todays football, footballers are too nice to each other. Too scared to say anything to each other. Plus, you can barely tackle nowadays in football without getting a card. Those tackles that use to happen in these rival games would spark the flame bigger.
Its sad to think the likes of Keane, Viera, Albelda and Gattuso are a dying breed in modern football
Hmmm you definitely see less of Keanes/Gattusos at modern top level, but Vieira is slightly different. You still see box to box players and Yaya Toure is a brilliant example of a modern day Vieira.
I was referring more to their tenacious mentality and leadership
Plus the fear they instilled in opponents.
2001...Overmars...ouch...set the tone for the game...
Oh I definitely agree here. I think that mentality itself comes with the aggression that they show on the pitch and it wouldn't be suited well nowadays. Vieira and Keane were carded enough back then, they'd be sent off every week the way they played. Using Arsenal as an example, Flamini is touted as having a lot of aggression, leadership etc., is the most carded player in the league and isn't anywhere near the intensity of Keane and Vieira.
Yea but the difference between Flamini and say Keane (and its a big difference) is that Keane embodied all the characteristics mentioned here and more, which made him the world class footballer he was. A lot of these characteristics were mental characteristics, determination, aggression etc. Which a lot of modern day footballers lack. Probably down to a lack of loyalty, or money dictating their career
I think its discouraged, thats why you dont see it.
I tell you what if I went back a few years I wish I could play with those traits.
Vieira*
Not saying this because he plays for united, but Phil Jones is kinda like keane. Even ross Barkley(more skill)
Keane is absolutely spot on about the Magnier and McManus story
good job ITV... i request another one of these in the same format only Ferguson -v- Keane... mediated by Gary Neville...
[removed]
Fergie and Wenger actually get along fairly amicably now. The hatred gave way to respect as they continued to be the only constant in the premier league.
also as arsenal dropped off as a title rival :(
There is no love lost between Roy and Gary either, even his comment about defending Neville from Vieira was a slight at Neville.
You misspelled "refereed".
Just brilliant television. To see two players who went out to pulverise each other every time they played showing mutual respect and enjoying eachothers company is great to see.
Watched it yesterday. Just seemed to me it was ITV trying to get Keane to badmouth Fergie by asking him blatently obvious questions with only one answer. Even when he answered about who was the best manager he worked under, Fergie or Clough? He said Clough. Why would that be a HUGE surprise that you would have to ask him to repeat his answer? Sure, he probably chose Clough because he has had beef with Fergie, but it's Clough. Clough is one of the best managers to ever manage in England. It seemed cringey and forced by ITV in my opinion. They may as well have just made a documentary of Keane talking about Fergie.
His answer has always been clough though.
No it hasn't. I remember at interview when he was at UTD he was asked who had the greatest influence on his career and he said Alex Ferguson.
That's not the same as who he felt was the best manager. Of course the man he played under for years had a greater influence.
Its not like he said Mick McCarthy is it.
Yeah, watching I kept thinking "Why the fuck they keep asking him about Fergie? has nothing to do with Viera."
Surprised Keane didn't say anything, probably welcomed the chance to bad-mouth Fergie.
Entitled to really, after what was written in Ferguson's book. I would not be surprised if we get a response from Ferguson through the media, he seems like the kind of guy who always has to have the last word
Vieira*
Nearly half the show was taken up with ferguson themed loaded questions. Pissed me off because the rivalry was well documented and this was a great opportunity to properly explore it.
This is probably the best football related documentary I have ever watched, I absolutely loved it. I wish there was still a rivalry as fiery as this and someone to kick some players up the ass at Manchester united now.
For me it's easily "Blue moon rising" which probably won't be quite as interesting for you.
But i loved a lot "When Barca smiled again" because it was just fascinating to see how such a big club look from the back.
That last bit when they're arguing about the players who missed the combined team, Great banter about Bergkamp and Rudd Van Nistelrooy who barely didn't make it because of Henry and Cantona. Great Documentary, I have to say that Roy is an incredibly stubborn man, The comment about Refs favoring United at home being the EXACT same when they played Arsenal away, took Patrick by surprise, good to see Patrick being very loving of Arsenal, his recent comments seem to have been taken out of context.
Keane is insane. What a character, my God.
I love how when Keane goes down for that injury the defender and goalie come over to have a go at him.
I had a similar thing happen to me once, my dad almost had a fight with some other guy because he was telling me to get up and calling me a cunt.
I bet they felt bad when I had to be stretchered off into an ambulance.
Thanks for the link, I forgot to record it.. Lifesaver!
it's on itv(4) on demand if you want to watch the whole thing and can access it
Sweet. Thanks.
(Reposting this from the other thread because I don't see the full YouTube full video linked here.)
Here's the full doc in one YouTube clip
Starts at about the 4 or 5 minute mark -- I think I've linked to that point.
Best part for me was the 38:30 mark, where Vieira was talking about how great it was to win the title at Old Trafford. "We're not going there for a tie. We're going there for a win..."
CUT TO
One could call them.... Frenemies.
When Keane says "if you believe that youd believe anything"... Hes a fucking lunatic
Ah yeah, because he's one of the most honest guys in the game, yet he just can't seem to help himself but lie about certain things, right?
Just goes to prove that Keane is in fact a bitter person.
you would think that if you just took everything he said as excerpts but watching the documentary he didn't seem bitter at all but rather still having that never lose mentality he will not let Sir Alex "Win" in the battle of words. Keane seems like a man that if you don't respect him he will not respect you.
I've watch the documentary, I've read his autobiography, I've probably heard every media comment he's ever made. This little TV production just reinforces my belief he is still bitter when it comes to Fergie.
I know reddit has difficultly accepting multiple opinions on subjects. I do think he was a great footballer and his temperament has always been questioned, so my conclusion isn't exactly far fetched.
The editing in the clip where he is asked who was his greatest manager, and says Clough, not SAF is basically the nail home. He'll never let it go, he'll forever feel betrayed. That's just his mentality, he is clearly a very loyal person, very intense. Just a shame he is so jaded and I think it hurts his football analysis, which otherwise would be very compelling.
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