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I'm a white girl that goes to a majority black school (important info). During class recently we started talking about the NBA draft. The conversation then turned to the girlfriends of athletes. Looking back now, I feel our teacher was instigating shit. He's an black man in his 50s. He would ask the black guys if they thought the girlfriends were pretty and if they'd date them over other black girls in the class. We're 10th graders btw. He'd also instigate and ask the black girls why they thought they didn't come with black girlfriends. It got pretty heated actually an I and some other kids in the class really feel like the teacher was enjoy it. During the conversation I wasn't really paying attention because I don't know sports like that. But when they started getting loud I listened in. The conversation eventually just turned to the groups involved being racist to each other. I mean both groups of boys and girls that were having the conversation just stated saying the worst stereotypes about each other. At one point during the shouting, a black boy, J, asked me for my opinion about the topic. He was basically asking if it was different being white. But before I could answer a black girl said to "not invite vanilla bean to the table". She then went on to accuse him of being to problem because the conversation they were having was for black people to have only. The class got quiet and I just asked to teacher to leave since it was a free period anyway. As I left the classroom with my friend I overheard the girl who didn't want my opinion say that J needed to keep white people out "our" business. But I don't get it. Alot of the stuff they discussed I could understand. My mom sounds alot like they mom. And the way some kids described their dad felt like they way I'd describe mine. I felt left out and then to be told I can't relate because I'm white mad me feel shifty. Like my life is supposed to be better than what it is. The friend I left with told me that although my feelings were valid, that some black people feel that way about nonblack people speaking on certain issues. Like even though my mom is a white single mother with 4 kids by 4 different men who is on government assistance its different because she'swhite. I just don't get why I didn't get to be apart of the conversation. I wasn't going to mock or make fun. I just really heard some stuff I felt and related to and wanted to talk.
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Holy shit, what was your teacher thinking? That is a terrible discussion to try to foster.
“Majority black school” should give you an indication as to the education quality you can expect from such an establishment.
Gtfo with that racist shit
It may not be palatable but what they say is truth and can be backed by data. The underlying reason to all that is, of course, racism in regards to how Black people have been intentionally targeted since they first arrived in the country. People like to think otherwise but the country's roots, from its policies to the police, have long been racist because that's exactly what they meant.
Since when were facts racist? Do you know of a single majority black public school that has better metrics than other nearby schools in the general area? Everywhere in the country it’s the same story.
I went to majority Black schools and they were fine.
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Your teacher is a dick and needs to be punched in the asshole.
Either/ or
Why not both? I vote for both
I would report your teacher to the principal because this was inappropriate and he shouldn't have escalated the situation like this. With certain kids, this could've gotten worse then words. He's supposed to act like a mature adult and he didn't.
I don't think that'd help. This isn't even the worst thing he's done this semester. He's kind of known for being an ass.
Tell your parents. You guys could try to report him to the superintendent if the principal won't do anything. If this happens again and you feel uncomfortable enough to leave the room then go to the office. They may be right about some topics not being for white people, but doesn't mean that what he did wasn't inappropriate. He instigated this so bad that he made a teen girl uncomfortable enough to leave the room. Some adult needs to tell to knock it off and call him out and fire him.
I don't believe in the idea that some conversations aren't for X type of people as a general concept.
However, there are conversations that you shouldn't participate in because there's absolutely no upside for you and sizable downsides. This sounds those one of those conversations.
All I'm getting from this story is that your teacher needs to be fired
Yeah. He's an ass.
Your teacher and some of your classmates sound like racists.
Yes, there are conversations that are not for you. Conversations in your classroom should not intentionally exclude you, however. I'm sorry you experienced that. I had a similar situation in middle school.
Don't you know?! It's impossible to be racist if you're black! ✊🏿
/s
Oh, silly me, how could I forget!
My racist teachers were clearly just trying to teach me a lesson about being born with the wrong skin color... wait.
And that folks, is a teacher teaching and letting their students practice racism
This.
Ignorance is bliss.
Vanilla pods are black...
This scenario would clearly be racist and utterly stupid wtf lesson was this? What a waste of school time.
It was like the last 10-15 minutes of class.
If it's an open discussion in a classroom, everyone is included, period. Your teacher is indeed an instigator and could have shut down the exclusionary remarks of those girls, but didn't. When I taught at a nearly all black school even little 4th graders would tell me to my face that I could not know something because I was white, I would counter with a gentle correction.
I feel like I've seen a similar set of conversations where girls were talking and didn't want a guy's opinion even though there were guys present during the conversation.
Though there was no teacher involved.
As much as this sucks, let this be a learning experience for you. Something to be aware of even if it doesn't feel right to you. Even if you don't agree with it. Racism can and does exist towards any group of people.
Also white, but I've run DEI initiatives in the past and can add some insight here I think.
Short answer, broadly: Yes, there are topics that stay within groups. This isn't exclusionary to Black people either, but other groups (e.g. Indigenous) also have lived experiences where there are conversations that only happen "in group". (Wikipedia has a great article about in-groups and out-groups that can explain some of this..)
Sometimes you will see counterarguments about "how will we learn if we're not in the discussions" or similar. To that I will point out: not all conversations are in-group. If there is a group that is trying to figure out something within their group and doesn't want an outside opinion, then that's what they need. If there is a group seeking broader conversations, then people not in the group can participate (and/or learn, depending on what happened).
Reading through all of that - I wonder if the teacher wasn't trying to showcase Colorism, which is a heated topic. Here's an article about Colorism. I'm not saying if he did it well or not, mind you, but that's my best guess.
If you want to keep the conversation in-group, then keep it in-group. This was a case of having a conversation in a public setting that includes people outside the group, but then telling people outside to shut up.
If this were 1965 or even 1985, I would get this attitude of "you've been talking, so for now don't talk, listen." But white people have been observing black people in public every day of their lives, from famous and well-loved stars in concerts, on TV, movies, and in interviews, to people on reality TV and doing TikToks, to everyday people at work, in the neighborhood, and in inter-racial marriages.
The average white person is far more aware of the lives of black people than they were 40 years ago, but for DEI that never seems to register. It is well past time for that exclusionary attitude to end. Black people have been talking about race and other matters, at length, for years. At this point you're just creating a new permanent people-of-privilege who are allowed to discourse about racism while others are excluded.
Your billion-dollar DEI industry is partially founded on this principle, so I do not expect you to agree.
DEI is literally just corporations trying to keep their workers segregated to prevent liability lawsuits
I am happy to continue to have this conversation with you if you would like, but I think you have some assumptions that aren't correct.
"Your billion-dollar DEI industry" - there really isn't that much money in DEI, and if you want to engage with me personally including my experiences, you should be aware that I work primarily with non-profits and come from that experience.
While it's true that white people have more awareness than they did 40 years ago, that doesn't mean we can't all learn more. Learning and growth, whether it's about DEI or any other subject, helps us all.
I also would like to point out that the OP is posting about something that happened in a high school. Kids are rowdy. Adults trying to take charge of kids, especially those on the cusp of independence, usually just do their best - sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. Highschoolers shouting at each other because that's how they know, so far, to handle heightened emotion isn't unusual either. This isn't a town hall.
Can you provide some data to support the claim that the DEI industry isn't worth at least a billion dollars? I have found this report that says the size of the industry is $9.4 billion. I assume that's a revenue number but didn't read the report details.
Totally agree we can all learn more, and one good way to learn more is often to listen. But that's so general that it's hard to apply it to any particular circumstance without a lot more information, and it rarely rules out talking entirely.
In the case of that teacher, if he wasn't prepared to tell that girl who shut the other girl down that all perspectives should be heard from, then the teacher was not prepared to teach that subject. I certainly fault the teacher here more than the 15-year-old.
Very well said.. and with references. You are very cool. Thank you.
Does that go both ways?
Yes.
And so it's fine to have White only conversations. Right ?
Where you don't need the input of other races.
Yeah. If you abstract this out, there are indeed conversations that any particular person doesn't need to be injected into.
This is honestly between J and his friends. The real asshole here is J, for putting you on the spot.
A public place qnd shcool no less, should NEVER, exclude anyone. we want equal rights and love for all but draw lines where it " ok " for you to have value.....
Guess " blacks " need learn us whites know things they don't and if ANY, try state thier view, they need learn thier place.... funny that sounds like racism and oppression no? Guess not if it black telling it to a white thu.
Could you possibly sound more ignorant?
I’m so sorry this teacher instigated this. I also know and respect the black culture and community for wanting to keep certain conversations and experiences between themselves. It’s nothing personal towards you, there are some things we won’t understand and if a particular group of black folks don’t want to explain or discuss with you, just give them that respect. But the inflammatory conflict shouldn’t have flared up like that. And the teachers subject matter sounds ridiculous and inappropriate. Especially for the self esteem of a bunch of teen agers.
Yeah. I do feel the teacher like making the girls upset. Like at one point a girl asked if his wife was black and he got this huge shit eating grin on his face. Like he was waiting on her to ask so he could play coy about his wife's race. He only responded "why's that matter?" everytime he was asked. The teacher we have is actually quite childish.
Report him seriously.
It really sucks that things got as heated as they did, and you feeling frustrated at being left out and spoken about rudely is valid. Your family struggles are valid as well, and maybe that’s something you might be able to have conversations about with some of your peers at some point. But it is true that there are certain times when particular marginalized groups need to be able to have conversations about their experiences just amongst themselves. Acknowledging the suffering of these groups doesn’t take away from one’s own suffering either, it’s just different in certain ways.
For example, people of low economic class all suffer from classism, and they have that in common and can speak about those struggles. But people who suffer from both classism and racism have particular points of view and experiences that those who don’t won’t be able to relate to. It’s very likely that many of the parents and grandparents of your black peers have had opportunities taken away from them for no other reason than the color of their skin, have been in countless situations where they felt they were looked down on for this reason or even had to fear for their lives. It’s not something they can ever change about themselves or work toward “improving”, it is the color of their skin that has been pointed to as the reason they are not seen as worthy of being treated as a full human being. Many white people have also faced terrible circumstances and violence but something so basic to who they are as a human as their skin has never been the reason why, so the experiences mark themselves differently in the psyche.
He needs to start acting like an adult.
This isn't stuff he should be instigating.
It’s more about white people not being centered in black conversations not that white people aren’t allowed to be in conversations at all. This applies to all groups. That girl was wrong because you could’ve added something valuable to the conversation. But she was coming from the place that you shouldn’t be centered in the conversation. I also don’t think your teacher was instigating, this a big conversation in the black community and he opened up a great conversation for the black students. You should’ve shared your opinion respectfully and you would’ve added an interesting perspective. But I understand how uncomfortable the whole thing made you feel as she came for you directly. But there’s a reason the conversation was so heated and brought up so many emotions for people. This a very deep conversation and its centuries of history. This conversation is about colorism, proximity to whiteness, black men’s social status, black women’s identity and desirability. It’s a deep and complex conversation.
Also I’d be mindful of the quality of feedback you receive here, reddit users tend to not be able to understand nuance in conversation of race. I’d be more objective about that groups you’re posting to get advice from. There’s a great comment below from a guy who worked in DEI. Everyone jumps to just saying racist and those comments lack nuance.
Also you should look into intersectionality. Your example about coming from a single mother is true, you have a shared experience so you are able to understand but you must understand that race, gender, sex, class add nuance to these conversations and are important to consider when having effective discussions.
You need to report this teacher. This topic of conversation and what he was saying was completely inappropriate.
I’m Middle Eastern, I’d stay out of that conversation, and would not really want a white or black person to comment on topics related to the issues in my community in this situation. It makes the conversation too complicated and doesn’t serve the coloured people, especially coloured women, it’s a conversation about their own social situation and very deeply rooted issues they have to think about and fight potentially everyday and they’re already in a disadvantaged position. To have an opinion from someone from another group is a huge risk that could put the disadvantaged position in a worse position, this opinion could be backed by malice or any reason or intention to serve the more “powerful” group. Statistics show that black women are one of the most oppressed groups in the American society, which is where I’m assuming you’re from, but it’s also the case in many other societies. They’re fighting against so many different layers of oppression and here they’re fighting layers of racism and sexism, while your opinion if it was one used against them would be fuelled by these oppressing norms, because you’re from a more powerful group than them, and their opinions could be invalidated again on the grounds of that.
From my opinion it’s normal to be a little offended and maybe feel unheard but is you not being offended and being heard worth the risk of you fuelling something outside of your field of actual concerns? If you choose this topic could never affect you in your entire life.
And at the end of the day it’s also a question of what’s appropriate for the situation you’re in. In a lot of other contexts this would not be right. In this context, I feel like they’re not awfully wrong.
Actually, saying words to someone doesn't put them at any disadvantage, and you're basically arguing to treat people differently based on the color of their skin. Whether you do that out of pity or scorn doesn't change the racism
There very well might be conversations “not for whites” but your teacher race baiting like this and fueling animosity between blacks and whites is disgusting. We get enough of that from every other institution. People of different colors and cultures need to focus on common ground and celebrate what makes them different and unique.
Everyone can have an opinion on any topic. Anyone can feel any way they like.
If you were a black man in Mississippi in 1940 you might have a very strong opinion on labor and relationship norms. You might be correct. However, if you were a black man in 1940 Mississippi you would be an idiot to speak your opinion.
Things are how they are. You may be wrong and you may be right but taking on the mob is a bad idea. Even if you are white. Stomp your feet and say it's unfair as much as you like but when there is a mob demanding you shut up you are a fool to take them on by yourself. You are just experiencing a roll reversal that is particularly ironic.
People are how people are.
It sounds like that teacher is just bored and is trying to fuel racial hatred between his students for fun.
I'd go and speak to someone above him - as far above him as possible - and tell them that he is fostering a hostile environment in classes, purposely trying to start discussions not related to school in any way to pit students of different races against each other and to induce tensions which seems like a form of entertainment for him. Tell your parents as well. What he is doing is incredibly inappropriate.
personally i don't think so because dividing people by race is racist.
DEI is poison that divides people.
Your teacher is also an idiot.
This is pretty much an example of the opposite of DEI... Sheesh, red haters...
Because people's personal lives are often made public and often affect their relationships at work, corporate needed a way to limit liability. They invented DEI. DEI is basically about bringing people's personal identity into their working lives in a way where HR controls the discourse.
This discourse is founded on critical theory. Critical theory contends that reality is a function of stories. But we often get competing stories. In order to parse which stories are more adjacent to reality, critical theory presupposes that the historically marginalized voices are more real.
In this way, HR seeks to flip the traditional white supremacist, patriarchal, etc etc hierarchies. They're pretty explicit about this in every dei training. So now when you get two competing versions of a story -- one about a white woman asking her black coworker about her hair, and the other about a microaggression from the white colleague, the institution is, at least ideally, going to favor the story told by the black woman. (In practice, we know that never actually happens).
So, while HR may ritually chant "brave spaces" at the start of all of their meetings, what we have is a freezing effect. People afraid to say things (even if we know the reality is that HR ain't going to do shit when a Black woman has a complaint) or interact. And coworkers not interacting is actually really good to prevent liability.
So actually they're right, DEI is a poison that divides people. It's a workforce management strategy, not a solution.
u/tx_godfather did I get this right?
In group politics.
You'll have to be strong, smart, and self respecting to survive in that environment.
He's the adult in this situation. He needs to start acting like one.
The teacher is overstepping major boundaries. As are the students.
People don't change without a carrot or a stick. You can't give a carrot to a bad donkey and the stick doesn't often get used when majority group is preying on minority group.
Best option is to become strong. Second best option is to become an assassin.
Or have your parents call them out. If op was my kid, I'd go mama bear on him.
Hopefully you win cause otherwise things go very bad.
Wtf ...
The US seems pretty cool in a lot of ways but this kind of stuff is just mad weird
Conversations that are exclusive to Black people: -when black people are having a personal or private conversation
Conversations that are NOT exclusive to Black people: -when there is a group discourse happening
It's very likely most of your black classmates were thinking "damn you're a racist jerk" to the girl who said that, but it's extremely uncool to be the inclusive person saying "Don't be racist to the white person."
Unfortunately, the people who shape American thought are extremely invested in segregation. White chauvinism being taboo, they've put a lot of effort into making Black chauvinism acceptable. Basically, people that publish stories and media have convinced a lot of minorities that their general experiences are actually exclusive to their race (or gender or sexuality), and this exclusivity becomes an excuse to shun the outsider (you). Then they'll come up with some justification after the fact to rationalize their hating-ass segregationism. Anything to keep us from relating to one another.
The good news is that as you get older, less and less black friends will even put up with this shit. They will stick up for you, and include you, because we are one people. Teenagers (and college students) will go along to get along. Don't stress or take it personally. People finding a way to exclude you for things out of your control will happen your whole life, and it feels really dirty when it happens due to your skin color. Being, white, there's an extra layer of feeling confused about whether you're even allowed to be angry about it! Like, you're holding back on your own indignation because after all, you're white so it's okay to be excluded, and you don't want to be one of those honkies who whines about anti-white prejudice, so you just swallow it, which makes you feel like you can never get the dirt off.
The thing is, your experiences are COMMON - white, Black, Hispanic, Asian, even if others refuse to see it. Even that -- people excluding you based on your race -- proves all the more that we are all the same. In the meantime, get you a friend who will say "let her cook!"
No, there are no topics reserved for a particular race. That said, racism is a sad and unfortunate reality, and one of its many pernicious effects is reverse racism.
The best thing you can do in these situations is to remind yourself that race shouldn't be the first association you make about an asshole. If someone is being racist towards you, they are an asshole who happens to be of a particular race, and they (thankfully) don't speak for everyone.
Maintain a diverse group of friends, travel when possible, and broaden your experiences. The most racist people are those who lack close friends who are different from them. It's hard to hate XYZ race when you've got good friends who provide a positive example for you.
No. Anyone can talk about anything. That's how empathy works.
Empathy means to feel and understand the feelings of another.
That does not mean they can talk about anything.
And while a person may talk about anything, their ability to empathize would tell them that certain conversations aren't for them.
There are certain experiences that POC have that whites will never be able to understand, and vice versa. Just like men shouldn't speak on certain female reproductive or medical issues. Or how heterosexuals will never truly relate to homosexuals on some topics, just like cisgender won't with transgender experiences.
It's racism. Pure and simple what they did.
.. okay, and?
And?
Exclusionary practices based on race = racism.
No , they are being racist and exclusionary and will give you some excuse as to how you are racist to justify it
Two years ago you would have been publically abused for telling the truth about black racism. People still are on many venues.
Just want ask, do that not teach space for any sentences in blog text? I know I'm bad with grammar and sentence structure but It makes it hard to read or care when 50+ words are typed in a single drawn out package.
Notice I'm still going yet you can skim to a different part even see if my view changes or I have a point? I do ! It easier to read and care what you post when it space out.
Turns out everyone can be racist.
No. That's so fucking absurd. Can you imagine saying a conversation about finances is not for black people?
They probably have a problem with white people and they know the teacher isn't going to punish them because it would be too much of a headache, it's really a no win situation arguing with them about it just get your passing grades and it will all just be a bad memory you really don't want to have to PAY to get your GED when highschool is free.
Yeah. From what I get from the comments, I'm just gonna keep my mouth shut about anything race or culture related. Even if I'm asked directly.
Still though I got bullied pretty bad in highschool if I'd have had the money I would have dropped out and gotten my GED but I just suffered for 2 more years until I got transferred to a different school, looking back I'm glad I stuck it out I'm in rehab right now and I see people having to spend what little they have on getting their GED gotta pay for books, the classes, and to take the test, it's better to get it done for free.
The teacher is wrong! I can't believe that happened. You were right to be uncomfortable. The girl who spoke to you was being rude.
black people can't be racist - just bigoted, hateful and prejudiced
It's called racism... blacks can be racist as easily as whites. Don't brainwashed by all the 'woke' nonsense in our lost culture and society now. Popular culture will tell you blacks or 'people of color' can't be racist. That is a LIE.