Opinions on Cannonball?

(reaches for the popcorn) Prepare to be hit with a variety of opinions on this...

I've been playing them for almost seven years now, and can simply say that my own experience has been positive. All six CBs have held up like tanks, mechanically. I am now on my third CB tenor (a Lady Godiva Vintage) after selling previous ones as I have found individual specimens I have liked better than the previous. In my experience, there are many that sound basically "good," but a few individual horns that were so good, I was compelled to buy them.

IMO don't waste time with the student/intermediate models, not when you could get a used stone series for not much more than $1200 or so this depressed market. I played these student versions at at dealer and their sound lacked the color of CB's pro models.

If you like the Stone Series you're playing now, why change? Is it a school instrument or a loaner? Really, the decision should be up to you based on your own playtesting. if your chops are not that developed yet to be able to push a sax to its limits, ask your teacher to play some candidates for you or accompany you. There are some really cool teachers who will do this.

IMO

Biggest determinant of the sax's tone is YOU- your embouchure, breath control and intensity.

Next biggest determinant (assuming you have a good reed) is your mouthpiece and its shape.

Next biggest determinant is the neck of the sax (I've heard some amazing differences when testing out the modular Warburton neck pieces)

Then comes the horn.

In that regard I'd say on average, the Vintage models have a warmer sweeter sound (and are lighter by weight), and the Stone Series a bigger boomier sound.

Whether this brand or another, buy the individual instrument that feels and sounds great to you.

No reason you shouldn't at least try everything that you can.

Also for a little less money is the Big Bell Global series from just before the Stone series. A professional instrument through and through. Just not as hyped as the Stone series.

All the Pro CB's I've played (Big bell, Stone and Vintage) have been awesome horns in their own right.

If I had my Pick I'd go with the Stone series. It seemed marginally brighter than the other two.

Noobie: Much has been posted in various places about experiences with Cannonball saxophones. I'll save you searching for what I've posted and repeat myself once again.

I played a Cannonball Vintage alto at the NAMM show a few years ago - the horns weren't on the market yet but were being introduced at the show. It was terrific, I thought. An employee at the store that sponsored my ticket to NAMM clued me in on it and vowed to try to buy the one CB was showing. I wished him luck because it was impressive. His effort failed, though; that horn wasn't for sale

That store (no longer in business) used to stock CB saxophones and I've played others. One curved soprano (with the infamous stones but a beautiful finish) was offered to me at a great price. But i passed on it because I already had a nice Yanagisawa curvy and in MY opinion, there isn't anything better. Side by side, as good as that CB curvy was, there was no comparison. The Yanagisawa had it all over the CB.

Most saxophone brands exhibit some inconsistencies, model to model. MY problem with Cannonballs is their lack of availability. I'd like to be able to drop into any local music store and find a selection of Cannonballs to test. if I found one I liked (like that Vintage alto I played at NAMM), I just may buy one. But I'm not going to make a special effort to seek one out.

I'd demand to play one before I bought a cannonball and to find THE ONE CB would require too much driving around and shopping. They are Taiwanese and while that is not a fatal flaw, Asian-based saxophones may require more play-testing to find a good one. Can you find an Asian-based saxophone right out of the box (recognizing that with all brands there must be some dealer prep) that is worth the risk of buying sight-unseen? Sure, but doing that requires the ability to absorb some financial risk. Of course that is true with most all saxophones, but I've had pretty good sight-unseen purchasing experiences with name-brand stuff.

While Cannonball's marketing gurus may try to convince you there is a difference among their various models, I'd be skeptical about that. I'd bet that you could pick up one of their lesser models and find it to play better than their more expensive models. What I'm telling you is that if the purchase price creates a lot of financial risk in your life, you'd best play-test all the variations, then buy the one you like best out of that bunch. DAVE

Noobie: I don't claim to know every model in every saxophone maker's product line. All of them are influenced by marketing folks who make a few changes here and a few changes there and then claim their newest model is da'bomb. Yesterday's pro-line has been relegated to today's intermediate-line by adding a moon-rock to the bell or a few more lines of filagree in the engraving, etc., etc.

In CB I'm guessing they differentiate models among various well-known endorsers and the addition of stones or other gadgets . . . or maybe even by pricing - I don't know. But PLEASE don't get swept up in marketing strategies. The Global Series vs. the Albright Series vs. the Stone Series vs. The Raven . . . gotta use those masters degrees some way. DAVE

The Cannonball that I demoed had some quirky intonation problems. Other than that it was a nice horn, but the intonation killed it for me.

Which one was it?

NoobieSaxophonist said:

In my search for new saxophones one of the brands that I've been interested in was Cannonball. I don't have a ton of experience with it, but I have played a Big Bell Stone Series tenor and I found it to have a very nice, rich tone. I've seen many people say that they love their Cannonball and it holds up very nicely. However, I've heard others say that they aren't very well made and seem to fall apart after a while, and are more "bling" than anything. What are your opinions on this?

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I've had several students with Cannonball Global Big Bell tenors. I found that they don't have much character to their tone and I had a difficult time getting much variation in tone from the horns. I consider their construction robust but didn't care for the left pinky table placement nor the sharp edges on many of the keys. The tenors also seemed considerably more heavy than either of the Selmers I was playing at the time (Serie III and Ref 36). I don't like the engraving on the bell lip nor do I care for the laser engraving overall. As I told my students, I would certainly be able to gig on one of those horns but it would not be my preference.

I especially would not recommend buying one new as I believe there are many better values on the used market - such as the Pete C. or Godiva models that seem a potentially good horn with low resale. I would also avoid stone touches on the keys as they will tend to be slippery when sweaty. Resonant stones? I'm not a believer.

No problems with slipping on the BBGS tenor with stone touches on my part.

Never really noticed sharp edges either.

For the 3X less that one costs compared to a Selmer they are not in the same league but a great horn for the money. For between $1000-1500 I can't think of a single horn (modern) better than CB (second hand)

I knew that I wouldn't be able to give my opinion without someone going after it...

Please notice that the ONLY thing that I compared between the Cannonball and the Selmers was the apparent weight.

Sheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeesssssssssssssssssssssshhh...

just thought i'd throw my 2 cents in as i am a proud owner of a BBSS Brute Tenor, on the topic of the "sweaty stones" the only times this has occured to me is when water gets onto the stone, but i always have a nice "sham-wow like" towel with me to solve the problem, and yes, it comes down to personal preference, thats how i ended up getting my Tenor. :mrgreen:

I tried the Stone series Alto a while back. I found the action good except the LH pinky table didnt work for me at all, not even close to where my big mitts needed it.

Sound was good and no intonation issues with the Reworked Meyer 7m that i had with me. Big modern sounding horn. Not as flexible a timbre as my JK Shadow though.:mrgreen: but certainly a good workaday horn if the ergos work for one. IMO

That's fine. Just don't get the sham-wow out to dry them off...

Dr G, how can you play a horn with a high f# key ? Just kidding, that is a beautiful horn .

Hello Noobie,

Here's my 2 cents worth. I play a tenor stone series and love it. I also enjoy my big bell soprano. I tested a couple of different brands and then different cannonball models before selecting the horn I thought best worked with my setup . Opinions are ok, suggestions can be helpful, but only you can really make the final decision on a particular horn. I was fortunate enough to find a store that allowed me to play each horn until I was sure of my choice.
Much success in your search,
Reg

I have a BBSS alto with tiger's eye key touches. Never had any problems with slipping, and I think the tiger's eye matches the lacquer way better than pearls.
I would also agree with the opinion in this thread that the different models Cannonball makes are very similar with only slight differences. Play as many as you can before buying. Not just Cannonballs, all kinds of saxes. If that means driving all day to the next state over to go to a music shop that has a hundred different tenors in stock, it's worth it to find YOUR horn.

I played a silver Selmer series III alto for almost 10 years, and now after just buying a Cannonball Raven alto, I am about to sell that Selmer.

Now on Tenor, I didn't like the Cannonball Tenors as much as I love my Yamaha 82Z that I got in 2006, however I do like them better than the "new" Yamaha 82Zs (The ones that are being released in March, I got to play on an alto and tenor one during the TMEA music convention.)

I got my BBSS tenor on a hunch, which is quite a dangerous thing to do, but I think I was lucky - I still like this horn. However, I got a MadMeg (unlacquered) horn, and I'm really not happy with the way this thing 'ages' (discoloration, verdigris, oxidation patches in a variety of random colours - nothing like the elegant hue I was hoping for ... I'm only half serious here, but I actually am a bit worried about how some parts of the keywork have started to look). After four quite happy years, the CB was superseded by a horn that had been sitting in the cupboard - my almost pristine Yanagisawa T-500. The reason for this is that while the CB has an impressive tone and is a pleasant blow I really liked in rehearsals and at home, it just didn't live up to my expectations whenever I found myself performing on it. The Yanagisawa turned out to be considerably more versatile once I had found out how to actually get it to sound at its best.

Does this make the CB a bad horn? Not at all - it's still a really good tenor, very well built, with a nice tone. But as soon as it needs a full overhaul, I'll have the horn cleaned, buffed and - probably - plated (I happen not to believe into finishes having any effect anymore - whatever it may be, it just didn't turn out to be consistent or decisive for me).

As some others who have posted on this thread before, I never had any issues with the stones themselves - I actually like the look and feel I get from them.

M.

I have owned and played my Cannonball Stone Series tenor since 2009, and it never let me down. I would also say "built like a tank". Quite heavy, but extremely solid and sturdy mechanically.

Mine has this beautiful honey gold lacquer, which does come off a bit in the most worn parts. Still, it is a beauty, as even my somewhat jaded colleagues in the big band admit.

No problems whatsoever with the stone inlays. The tiger eyes on mine actually look very tasteful, not flashy at all.

I also appreciate the 2 necks which came with it - every once in a while, I will switch and be surprised by a subtly different feel and sound.

I played a Sceptyr tenor for a little while, which I borrowed from a good friend of mine when I needed a tenor. At the time, I was shopping for my very own tenor. My initial impressions were very good. A very big, powerful sound with lots of bottom. It came with two necks (gold lacquered and a silver one) and after some experimenting I chose the silver neck whenever I played the horn (a bit brighter sound). This Cannonball was indeed built like a tank. Very heavy, with lots of extra metal everywhere that you do not normally see on Selmers or Yamahas or most other horns out there for that matter. Of course, it had the huge bell and laser engravings. As some have pointed out on this thread, there were some quirky intonation problems in odd places. Playing altissimo was difficult, in the sense that it was way too easy to go up high and it was very hard to play in tune and control the pitch. While a solid horn to gig on, Cannonballs are certainly not my preference. After some time, I found a very good horn albeit an unlikely one. It was a Buescher BU-5 and it was great. I would have kept the BU-5 but a combination of events (lots of players wanting to buy the horn from me and a VERY tempting Selmer USA tenor listing on ebay), I decided to let it go and got my 164. The owner of the Sceptyr also didn't like it very much so he ended up selling it eventually.

What do the big bell stone series weigh?

Got to play a few cannonball alto's and a curvy soprano this weekend for a few hours trying out new horns. Played the big bell series and the vintage style horns..... My preference was the "Fat Neck" on both horns. It was hands down more free blowing and an overall clearer more crisp sound. Definitely a big spread out sound on the alto big bell series and intonation was spot on. I did have issues with the LH pinky cluster as it seemed more to the right than my Selmer so my pinky would slip right off the G#. Something i'm sure i'd get used to after some time in the shed. Vintage horn sounded stuffy although it was easier to blow with the fat neck. Same observations were made by a few other player's listening in the room.

The curvy soprano was actually quite a bright sound. I normally play on a straight Yamaha YSS-475 which is already bright in my opinion...Although bright, i felt it had a pretty milky tone in the upper register, less shrill than alot of other bright horns and the lows were easy to push out. Intonation was not as good as my 475. Sound was alot more spread much like the big bell alto compared to my 475.

Overall I actually enjoyed playing on the horns. I'd pick my 475 over the CB soprano as did the other listeners....but I'd have to pick the CB big bell alto over my Selmer AS-200 which isn't so surprising since my Selmer is an intermediate horn. Anyway, thought i'd share my opinion since I had a chance to play some this weekend.

You have a Cannonball Big Bell as a school horn? Lucky. All the public school band directors around here have something against Cannonballs. Probably because CB likes their black nickel, if I had to guess.

I'll toss in my opinion. Most of my experience has conveniently been with the tenors, but I'll briefly include my impressions of the altos, too. I'm a rock and blues player, too, so keep that in mind.
I compared them side-by-side with tons of top-of-the-line current Big Four tenors (all four models from Selmer Paris, one from Yanagisawa, one from Keilwerth, and three from Yamaha) as well as P. Mauriats and a few other random saxes.

The Stone Series was a riot to play. It was big, loud, and bright, but all still tastefully IMO. I had a more difficult time toning it down than I would have liked, though. It could break glass and level walls all day, but it didn't seem to care as much for singing. It didn't sound airy or anything when playing quietly, it was just tougher to get a dark tone.
My only other issue with it was the left hand palm keys, which dug into my palm to the point of being painful during faster stuff. There was an alto at the store with jury-rigged pads, though - somebody had taken a piece of felt to each key and wrapped it with electrical tape - that felt fine, so it wouldn't be too tough to get around. Otherwise, the ergonomics felt good to me.
One of my favorite things about them is that the altissimo is the easiest of any sax I've ever played. I didn't have any issue finding fingerings, and after those first 30 seconds' acclimation, I never missed a high note. Even notes that I could get out but were essentially out of my useable range were pretty easy to play. It's like they sense when you're about to go up there.
One other possible concern is that the Big Bells are a little heavier than most horns. I don't care myself, but I know that weight can be an important factor for some.
The Fat Neck was a blast, too. It did what it was supposed to do - more on the lows, less on the highs. The highs and altissimo wasn't bad per se, just less responsive, and they didn't sound quite as good. The mids had a bit more guts and the lows were bellowing and fat, though, so if you're a bottom-dweller, you'd like it. I had a rather different experience with the altos, though - they still had more gutsy lows, but it didn't seem to make the highs worse... just different.... Honestly, it made them play and sound eerily like tenors.
As for the construction, they seemed solid to me. I didn't notice any pads way off-center, and none of the mechanisms or rods seemed squishy or soft. My tech also thinks that they are very well-made.
All things considered, this was my second favorite of the bunch I tried - I prefer my EX for its flexibility, but if I could get any other tenor, it would undoubtedly be a Stone Series... probably in black nickel. :twisted:

You should also consider the Vintage Reborns, which are very different beasts. I tried two tenors and one alto.
Lovely tone, good intonation, and pretty flexible. They could play really quietly and maintain a good sound. The altissimo wasn't quite as easy as the Stone Series, but I'd still give it an 'above average' even compared to the Big Four's horns. The highs and altissimo sounded really silky, too, which is especially nice on the altos because a lot of altos can sound shrill up high, but might not go so well for a rock tenor. The lows were also very clean, although some might see that as a disadvantage.
I would have liked to try a high-baffle piece on the tenor and see what happens to the characteristics I just described, but I didn't own one at the time. One of my friends (an old pro who owns ONE tenor - a mid-50s MkVI) tried a VR tenor with a few mpcs, though, and he says they respond very well to mouthpiece changes. His modern Meyer sounded great, as did his oyster-opening Berg 105/0.
The alto was very comfortable in the hands. The tenors also had good ergos, but something about them just felt weird to me. I saw that the bell flare pointed quite a bit more to the right than on other horns, so in hindsight, the weight distribution must have thrown me off, since I almost always play with the tenor held in front of me like an alto. Still, I'd be curious to try a VR tenor again now and see if I have the same issue.
Construction-wise, these aren't quite tanks like the Big Bells, but the three I tried were still very well-built. Everything was where it was supposed to be, and none of the mechanisms or rods felt soft or muddy.
I know aesthetics are basically irrelevant, but these horns do look stunning in amber lacquer. It's a little too brilliant to be considered a good vintage imitation, but it is really pretty.
All-in-all, these are excellent horns. I'm still concerned about that thing with the tenor bell orientation, but I'd happily give them another chance.

As for the Sceptyr, I think I tried one of the tenors. Obviously, it wasn't very memorable.

Don't take our word for it, though - try some! Go find a store that either carries them or can get them for you, and give yourself the chance to decide, and when you're done with the Cannonballs, try others if you can.
If I had bought the horn I expected to like the most when I walked into that room full of saxes, I would not be happy - the three I expected to be my favorites were all near the bottom of the list, and I had relatively low expectations of the model I did pick from the lot.

I've had a BBSS alto for about 8 months now, and I love it. It's in a finish they don't make anymore: silver bell and gold laquer body and keys. It's an interesting looking horn, but it plays beautifully. My sound improved greatly after I got it. Cannonballs are definitely a lot different from other saxes. They're much heavier, and they feel more substantial in your hands. Once you've been playing a Cannonball for a while, playing another sax will feel weird because it will be a lot lighter and it will make your hands feel big, if you catch my drift. The BBSS saxes have very big sound, partially because of the big bell. It is hard sometimes to concentrate the sound, which can be frustrating for some, but I don't mind so much. The BBSS saxes come with two necks. The one that comes in the finish of the horn is the more traditional; it gives the horn a more subdued sound and is a little better for classical playing. The other neck, which is silver, and in never models has an underslung octave key, is the one that I prefer. There's very little air resistance with this neck. It's incredible how big your sound can be. This is the one you'd want to use for jazz, blues, rock, etc. The only issue I have is that sometimes I miss having a lot of air resistance, but if that's the case I just go back to the other neck. It's pretty nice. As for the durability question, my Cannonball is about 8 years old and plays fine. I haven't had any major issues in the 8 months I've had it. There are tons of professionals who endorse Cannonball and use their instruments, including Branford Marsalis. It's definitely worth buying one.

I own a cannonball Raven soprano that plays more effortlessly and has better intonation than any soprano I've owned. However, I had to play several of their horns to find one with this good intonation. The inconsistency among the horns was surprising to me. This horn was not my favorite tone wise, but my number one priority was the intonation and playability. The tone is sweet and smooth but not as robust and strong as the vintage Reborn I tried which sounded great but had a couple bad notes I just could not deal with. One thing I did notice which might account for the inconsistency is that the build of some of the horns did not match what was posted on their site. A simple example is that their web site at the time stated that my horn has ribbed construction, but my horn does not have ribbed construction. I am assuming they use different parts manufacturers and change that up from time to time since they us Asian parts and put the horns together here in the US. I am very pleased with this horn, but do wish I had something with a richer core at times.