Why are we changing the system?
Our Donation Points system - introduced 6 years ago - uses a pool of money set aside by us each month (most recently ~$325,000) to reward mod authors for sharing their mods with the community. Authors earn Donation Points (DP) which they can exchange for free games, PayPal payments, donations to charity, and other rewards. This system currently uses unique downloads on mod pages to calculate the rewards and has remained unchanged since its inception.
In December 2023, we surveyed all active mod authors on the website to gather their opinions on the system (You might remember a slightly annoying full-page alert. Sorry about that!). Most of you said you were reasonably happy with the system but there were some key themes in what you didn't like about it which helped inform our decisions here.
As we see it, the overall impact of the Donation Points system has been a huge net positive for the modding community - with thousands of authors sharing in our success at Nexus Mods, on top of any donations they get directly from their fans.
It's not all blue skies and rainbows though. Over the years we've seen a steady culture change in the community which has seen many users alter how they release mods to maximise DP at the expense of the overall experience for the users of their content. While this might be good in the short term for the uploader, it's having a long-term detrimental effect on the community as a whole. Of the ~4,000 responses to our DP survey, this was by far the largest issue mod authors had with the system, and we agree.
We've classified these behaviours into a few key problem areas:
- Mod splitting - Breaking mods down into as many smaller parts as possible to post each part on a separate mod page where there is almost no reason to do so other than to maximise DP.
- Reposting updates - Creating a new mod page for each major (or minor) update to a mod. We understand that there are some legitimate concerns around the visibility of updated mod pages, but this is not a good solution. It's particularly bad for users who track your mod page to know when it has been updated.
- Mod list "stuffing" - Creating lots of small mods on separate pages and adding them to a mod list, meaning that each time the list is downloaded a significant amount of DP is generated. Generally, these files could all be on a single page (or bundled with the list) and represent almost no value to the game community outside of the mod list. This wasn't causing a major drain on DP going to other authors but we feel earning DP this way is simply not fair, appropriate or right and we want to stop it.
- Quid-pro-quo in mod lists - While less common, there were a few recorded instances of the curators of popular mod lists approaching mod authors and offering to include mods in the Collection/Wabbajack list/etc in exchange for a cut of the Donation Points from all the extra downloads it will generate. Similar to the above, this didn't have a huge impact on the overall DP pools but is not something that we feel is fair to others.
- Botnet farming - Using large numbers of throwaway accounts to generate a disproportionate amount of downloads on otherwise unpopular mods to generate more DP.
We hope you'll agree that none of these things benefit the community and that often these behaviours direct rewards away from other users who have not attempted to manipulate the system. It is not lost on us that this is very much a problem of our own making, which is what we are trying to rectify with these changes. We would also like to highlight that the users doing these things (usually) have no malicious intent and are within the rules of the current system - excluding the botnet issue, obviously.
As part of our efforts to combat these problems, we'll be updating the Donation Points system rules and changing how the system works to better reward users who make awesome content and share it in a great way for the community.
What is changing?
The most important change we're introducing is a new "under the hood" algorithm to calculate how Donation Points are allocated. Currently, we share how we work out mod author rewards each month but - while we generally prefer transparency - we feel that, in this case, showing our workings creates a rewards system that is easier to manipulate and encourages users to tailor their content to maximise Donation Points. With that in mind, we've decided to keep the details of the algorithm hidden going forward. We will also periodically tweak the formula to ensure the distribution remains fair and the most positive contributors to the community are being rewarded appropriately.
As a result of these changes, mod authors in the upper percentile of earners in the current system are likely to see a decrease in their Donation Points and many authors in the middle of the pack may see a small boost in what we give them. The metrics are different now so the exact variation will be unique from one user to the next. One thing we're confident in saying is that anyone who has been engaging in the behaviours we listed earlier will see a decrease in their overall earnings.
We won't be sharing the Donation Points monthly reports for the next few months, but these will return once we've completed the updates to the wallet section of the website required to display the new data.
Donation Points for January, February, and March 2024 will continue to use the old algorithm and you will receive the amounts shown in your Monthly Reports section. These will be added to your wallet in May, June, and July 2024 respectively (as normal).
The new algorithm applies to Donations Points earned from April 2024 onwards, with the first payout due in August 2024. Don't worry, there will be no change or delay to when the rewards hit your wallets.
We're also updating the Donation Points system rules to clarify what is considered abuse of the system and we'll be reaching out privately to the community members that this affects. Mod authors who don't play by the rules will risk having specific mods disqualified from earning points or, in extreme cases, their entire account may be disqualified from earning DP if our new guidelines and warnings are not followed.
What isn't changing?
We remain committed to donating as much as possible to mod authors each month. Our goal is to continue to increase the pool of funds as our site grows, allowing more authors to benefit from this system. We've already shared over $7.5 million in rewards since starting the scheme in 2018.
Since we changed how mod authors get free Premium, we're adding more game keys and exploring additional possibilities for funky extra rewards we can add to the store to let authors get even more our of their DP. If you've got some ideas, let us know on the forums or the feedback board.
We will continue to use the NET90 system - meaning your DP will be added to your wallet 90 days after the end of the month (for example, DP earned in January is calculated in February, then is added to your wallet in April).
How can I ensure I still get a good share of the DP?
Our advice for getting the most out of the new system can be simplified as saying "Make mods that are great for our community and we'll reward you". As authors, there shouldn't be any need to get bogged down in the mechanics of the system anymore. To give you an idea of the kind of behaviours we want to encourage though, here are some top tips:
- Create awesome mod pages - Provide users with a clear description of what your mod does, how to use it and what they can do if they have problems.
- Keep your mods updated - Users love it when they can quickly tell if your mod will work with their game version. Should you not have the time to update your mods, keep your fans informed by updating the mod page or sticky comments.
- Centralise your content - Don't make users browse through loads of mod pages to get to all your similar content. Consider batching together related content. You can still offer multiple individual files on a single page. This is particularly important for compatibility patches!
We know this isn't particularly specific, but that's the point.
I have more questions!
We understand this is a touchy subject and there are bound to be questions which aren't fully answered here. We've added a new Frequently Asked Questions page to cover these over the next few months as we prepare to roll out the new system.
Let us know your thoughts in the comments section below or send a PM to one of our Community Managers if you'd rather talk to us privately.
709 comments
We've updated the FAQ to address the main concerns noted from the various places this has been discussed.
Frequently Asked Questions
How will the above be moderated? Let's take a retexture Mod for a game split into 30 parts. What will happen here?
Our Mods may not be great on their own but the 100s of hours we put in each month deserve some kind of recognition. If our collections are popular and we have a basic mod of ours included (ie small tweaks, patches etc) then these should NOT be exempt or the amount of DP reduced. How is the algorithm going to calculate these mods?
DP should always go 100% to each separate mod.
As for collections, all patches you make are only ever usable in your collections. So yes they all should come from 1 Page, splitting them up is purely for DP farming reasons.
Also: You’re not owed anything, you decided on your own to spend that time.
Generally, I agree with your comment. But some of us do a hell of a lot more than just throw some mods together and hope for the best.
Also nearly all of your mods fall under each "issues with DP system" category that nexus is about to address.
Also as acidzebra pointed out, you just put all those mods into your collection to maximize DP
The fact that you address me personally in a newsline topic discussion, to advertise your "work", speaks more about your "quality" content than a thousand words. So excuse me while I politely say no!
You underestimate the time it takes to maintain and support a collection. As a Curator/Collection you'll get the support inquiries of ALL the mods in your collection. It becomes YOUR responsibility to make it work. All this while you're not entitled to any of the rewards it seems.
No I don't. I actually have a very good idea about it, and I have a good foundation to compare it against creating mods. You know, the internet research. The getting familiar with tools. The learning multiple coding languages. The learning to deal with user inquiries. The providing updates, feedback and support. And last but not least the actual building the mod, and playing with it to verify its functionality.
There's probably more to consider, including providing recommended and personally curated mod lists.
Then you also know that for bigger collections there is multiple "support members" that spend enough time that'd it be considered full-time work on helping users with making sure everything is working for them. With this change where Nexus decided to single out collections they decided this is not worth to be paid. After April which brought the biggest traffic in history of Nexus, it was time to just well... change how it was done.
I give credit where credit is due. But creating leech mods or 15+ "super tweaks" or "mega patches" and putting them into a collection, then asking to be rewarded for maintaining such collection with DP, and today getting very vocal and unhappy when the nexus comes with a big stick of "oh no you don't"? That asks for some undefined, yet large negative amount of credit.
I found this comment to be a good starting place.
So as a matter of discussion, I took a look at "City of Dreams (Heavy) by v2", I'm a massive fan of Cyberpunk so this'll is a fun place to start for me. If I look at the mods, sort by author, what I find is the following uploaded by you and included in the collection:
Now of those, I think we can see that roughly 3/4ths of those are specifically aimed at collections or personal loadouts. I'm pointing here at the backgrounds, loading screens and the remasters. People aren't likely to download those outside of your collections. Infact in general we see about 4x the downloads to page views. Why not combine them all into a single page of "Loading Screens and Backgrounds Remastered"? Or put them all into groups, all the backgrounds and screens in one, video remasters in another etc. Split them up by .archive and allow users to pick and choose when they install.
Of course there are mods here that are pretty unique. Unlock FOV has about equal page views and downloads, telling me that it's something a lot of people want search for and use.
At any rate, I think we can all agree that the current system incentivizes people split mods up, and get them into collections, and that a system that makes that approach less lucrative is better for the users. I don't know anymore about this system than the original article mentions, but I've become more and more unhappy with the status quo where authors are incentivized to put one file in each mod and upload 20 mods. Not that this is new, it started in Skyrim with animal animation overhauls and door reworks back in the day, it's just that now it's everywhere, and I'd argue even in your collection.
"yes I do. It's not."
"this should not be an argument! How dare you use it against me, you have no idea how hard it is and saying that you do proves you don't, reeee, I want my moneeeeeeey"
🤡
Some of those mods that you recommend combining are optional or can be replaced. Having mods parsed out separately allows for users to create their own experience. If you want to use v2's loading screens but a main menu background that isn't in the collection, you can do so. If the mods were combined that could still be possible but would be more confusing. While the main point of collections is to create an easy user experience, many users who have done a lot of mod installations don't like collections that limit their ability to make changes.
While a DP distribution system that takes this into account in order to attempt a more equitable distribution is a great goal, I don't think it's fair for Nexus to profit off people's labor and then hide the data on how that's done. And for Nexus to accuse MAs and collection curators of stuffing mods in order to farm DPs, without acknowledging the reasons for splitting them up is pretty disrespectful.
To have a collection that brings that much traffic it becomes an issues, it also means the support is quite high.
But again thats not seen.
And until now, that's what made it fine. But if they remove the reward for that because they find collections cheating. You'll no longer have any full time curators. Just hobbyists that spend the time they have on the side.
I respect patching, etc. But there's no need to double dip. (And, frankly, I don't care about "full time curators" or full time modding. This is a hobby. If you want full time money for full time work, modding should not be it.)
Dark, Halgari, Picky, and the rest of you: good work. I don't entirely agree with the lack of transparency, but I do understand the reasoning from your perspective. This post basically echoed my entire survey response, so I'm glad to hear this is happening. All the best to you.
Roni, that screenshot is hilarious.I knew Exo was awesome at DP farming because I see that nonsense every time I check new mods, but I didn't realize the extent of it until now. What a joke.
And Dark: leave my cats alone, you monster.
So yea, you definitely can do it for absolutely free
Besides, what I read from this announcement is "those who upload separate mod listings for things that could be a single mod listing with multiple downloads will receive (roughly) the same amount of DP as those who upload a single mod listing with multiple downloads." The "punishment" is only relative to the current system. It's basically saying, "You won't get to benefit from the loopholes in the system anymore. We're closing them."
I for one 100% agree that people like yourself should defo get rewarded with DP, I use your Storywealth and have for pretty much since you started it and as someone who has modded games for a long time and knows how difficult it can be to get hundreds of mods working perfectly together I can see with all your patches and updates how much work goes into it and the hundreds of questions people ask when they have a problem. I think it would be a great injustice if you didn't get something for your time and the extra downloads those authors get when someone like me finds they love one of their mods in your collection and then downloads more of their work...
People doing two-second upscale or recolouring a pair of gloves and making a new page yes that kind of stuff needs to be stopped, but some of those collections have a lot of time and effort put into them and are well maintained, maybe a system where if the collection gets no updates or changes after a set time they then stop getting DP or the DP they get auto goes to charity...
Collections shouldn't earn DP at all!
Curators aren't same as mod authors and they never will be. They leech off of mod authors and gain DP both as mod authors and curators because they add 10 of their 1min mods into collections which people otherwise would never download. This means they can get 5x 10x 15x times more DP than people that made mods which make their collections even relevant? In most cases without ever even asking for permission from authors of those mods!
Curators don't patch mods in their collections because they don't know how to do it, only thing they can do is install different mod in their place, or wait for original mod authors to patch them so "Updating and patching is difficult" justification part from previous posts is just pure bullshit. "Its hard to get them to be compatible" is also bullshit because nearly all of gameplay mods have compatibility lists on their main pages! It takes 10 minutes to set up a collection and learn how to make them. It takes years to just learn how to code or model, and then hundreds of hours combining of all of what you have learned with effort to make decent mods.
This means, if you allow DP on collections, you harm everyone that makes mods that those collections use. Because, what it literally means is you should work hard, and someone that uses your stuff will make more than you do with no effort. They are smart and you are stupid.
I am so happy for this DP update stopping most of this bs because I didnt realize it was this bad before
I disagree Exoclyps puts a lot of time and effort into his collection and if you looked at it he has made patches for lots of mods in it so they all work together, maybe the DP system needs a tweak for collections but there should 100% still be a DP reward. The problem is once you start down the who is and isn't worthy road there's no end, because there will be people say your mods or another mod isn't "mod" enough, your mod only took 2 weeks to make mine took 6 months and on and on it goes. Yes the mod splitting and the taking open perm mods and doing a 1 minute upscale etc is bang out of order and needs sorting. But just because you, me or anybody thinks another mod isn't mod enough isn't a road I think we need to go down. I would say the 3 million boob mods are not really mods but when thousands download it obviously plenty would disagree, that's not to say there are no crap collections that are obviously some that are a DP grab, but the good ones have had a lot of time spent on them and still do...
But after I've seen what they actually do (yes, I didn't know, I was aware only about splitting), while also whining and crying that they want money for their "genius great work" - all I want for them is to get a nice smack with a banhammer. Imagine stuffing collection with dozens of patches, and dozens of otherwise uninteresting mods (both by the "grandmaster coorator"), to farm DP en masse, and then have the arrogance to ask for a reward. And their pages, holy c*ap, all filled with "patreon me, donate to me, I'm so cool so dedicated give me moneeeey!" And all of it while they build collections out of other people's hard work.
I've seen the most stupid argument yesterday here, that "we wouldn't stuff if we were rewarded", but that's just blatant lie. They totally would. Some of them openly admit they work on collections and stuff their split mods and patches to make a ton of buck and nothing else, because this is their "job" and "main source of income". Would they suddenly stop stuffing and splitting, if they were getting idk, a hundred bucks monthly for their "grand" efforts? They don't want $100, lol. They want thousands of dollars. There's nothing "out of love for the community" or about passion in their work. Just maximizing money any way they can. Quite literally parasites:
Obviously, not every collection curators are like that. Smaller collections that aren't shoved in everyone's face have nice mods, no stuffing, no splitting from the curator. And they don't do it for the money to begin with. Some of them have few mods of their own in there, maybe few combined patches, and that's totally cool, they get their stable DP monthly.
With all that said, I think problem with stuffing and splitting for collections specifically, by people like v2 or exocl, will continue. They will find a way, I can already see one or two myself. But then they'll get kicked out for good the moment they get caught (and they will). Tho most likely they'll bolt from here themselves, now that their "main source of income" is gone.
So we live in a point in time when curators have to be curated. Constantly. Are we gonna waste someone's time for that to overview if they're good or bad now, to check if they should get rewards for collections? Moderators have enough work already (and aren't paid for any of it). Users? They won't go checking, they're in a constant excitement state "omg cool collection full of badass mods and this curator is such a nice guy look how well-designed his profile is!". They wouldn't report bad behavior if it was literally happening in front of their eyes. Or should authors run around like squirrels in a wheel, to check if they're being screwed by yet another "coorator"? Sure when they see it - they'd report, but holy moly, they have better things to invest free time into, like, yknow, making actual mods. In other words, if there is no way to constantly check what coorators are doing - there cannot be any kind of reward system for them. Period.
Don't see at as an excuse, but there are reasons not to put a bunch of single mods into one, even though I agree, that in many cases, it could be done.
What I wanted to point at: I first started modding out of curiosity, cause that one outpost Zimonja was always very annoying, along Oberland Station, speaking of buildable area, so I started to dig into this by using FO4edit, meaning doing it by hand or "trial and error" and boy did I make mistakes. ;-)
After I got into this, I started looking at the other settlements, just out of curiosity and after a while, I had done an settlement expansion, areawise, for almost every possible settlement, including the Boston Airport (including workshop fix), the Mechanist Lair and some other "special" ones.
So I uploaded them one by one at a time and after a while, I decided to create an "almost all in one" package, including those, that were mostly sought after, but leaving out the "special ones", since not everybody wanted to build there and in rare occasions, expanding the area caused minor inconvinieces.
Now, would you ask me to take down all the single mods, or would you agree, that in this case, they all have a right to be accessed, individually, because some people like to have a BIG mansion at Ten Pines, others don't care about that place, while those might like to build their "penthouse" at the Hangmens Alley, which again other player wouldn't even want to think about building anything there ?!
Again, I agree that there are mods that could easily and should rightfully be packaged, but that doesn't fit in any case.
To the thread starter: Kid, you and your group, you are creating nothing, if you just package mods from other authors.
This is a claim similar to wholesalers claiming that they procuced the goods that they are selling in family sized packages.
@Xilandro: Gogogo, I am right behind you with that modded junk jet ;-)
Just hobbyists? Modding is a hobby and the best mods (and most mods) are created by "hobbyists".
There is no need for people working full time on modding. This leads only to the same old problem that we have with most companies nowadays "how to make more profit with less work?". Modding isn't here to make a profit or a living. And I am shocked how the DP and Collections system seem to have twisted a (small) part of the community.
Honestly, I will admit I'm jealous. I wish I could be so greedy and willfully ignorant that I could gleefully profit so much from the work of others. Shame on you, Storywealth people. Modlist developers and collection curators like us should be serving the community first, not ourselves. We're here to make modding easier for newcomers, not to cheat everyone out of money. I'm thoroughly disgusted by your behavior and by the comments I've seen from you in a few other places. I hope they burn your "patches" to the ground and you make nothing. Take my earnings as well to make it "fair" if they like, I don't mind. I'll keep working. I don't know when you twisted this into thinking it's all about making money, but you're wrong.
@Livelynightmare damn, ur post just breaks my heart. Thank you. And I'm sure you won't suffer any consequences for their action.
Edit: HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA GET REKT LAZY OOOOPTIMIZERS AND OOOOOOPSCALERS
TBH I never realised Storywealth had all those separate patch pages, I can't deny his Storywealth collection is good and has obviously had a lot of time spent on it, but those patches should have been in 1-3 pages with a Storywealth patch central name or some such. Im not here to point the finger on a witch hunt but that kinda thing needs to stop. Shame as we'll now probably just end up with collections of 3-6 mods slapped together, wish there was a better way to encourage Modders and good well looked after collections that gave everyone some reward if they obviously deserve it...
"I can't deny cash grab made out of other people's hard work, but full of of curator's garbage files for the sake of the number to increase his income, is good"
OK.
With as many mods as you want, with 3-6 patches, when they are required. With cleaner setup environments, not flooded with garbo mods no one would install on their own. With far more money in the donation pool to be divided among actual creators. And with bad actors gone from the scene, or steamrolled into lowest lows where they deserve to be.
As for the rewards - they did everything to make sure that rewards to curators aren't going to happen. With their greed they threw a solid possibility into a bleak idea that has no solutions (at least I can't think of any good one that'd work).
So only curators that'll survive are those who are here for the sake of being here, and not for the $$$.
But the funniest part is how sad you are about those guys not getting any more money.
Wow you really are on one today everyone is getting a lashing off you, at no point did I say DP farming or mod splitting etc was ok. I even just said I hadn't realised how many loose mod pages he had, you seem to just be looking for any reason to have a fight. I do think that anyone who puts time into anything that others use and enjoy deserves a little something back, I do wish there was a way to make it fair for everyone. Don't cherry pick arguments just because you're feeling like a fight mate. Every time there is ever anything on this site the so-called community goes out the window and everyone turns on each other every time...
If the new system works properly, the collections authors will hopefully now get compensated appropriately relative to the actual mod authors. Which is to say, that mod authors will be slightly better off, and stuffers will be much worse off. Splitters were previously making a lot more of their "little something" back, than the people doing the actual work
Anyway. I did not cherry pick anything, but addressed your post completely. Quality of that collection? Addressed. Opinion on rewards? Addressed. Whole vibe of the reply? Also addressed. How is that cherry picking? I never ripped out anything you've said out of context, haven't put words into your mouth, and didn't miss anything either. And I've noted how sad you sounded about rewards, because I found it funny. In the thread full of parasites, screaming about how they feel gaming the system is fair because they want all the money/rewards possible. You even defended them directly, multiple times. Here's one of em:
Like, you've clearly been reading my posts to other people, but somehow missed the whole point.
This is uncool, so very very uncool of you. Very disrespectful and full of passive aggression. And you have a nerve to tell me right in my eye that I'm the boo hoo bad guy. Uncool.
I will address this anyway. It's not "anything", but people gaming the system being dealt with. And "the so-called community" is not "out the window" or "at each other's throats", but delivering some well-deserved kicking to parasites who exploited the system and other authors hard work, and came here fuming, full of themselves, to tell "the so-called community" how innocent, grandiose and important they are, and deserve the money, and nexus is bad for not giving it to them (anymore).
You know what else I find funny? How in every post you try to sound like everyone's friend, disrespect people who actually make mods, then you shift the blame, and use a straw man. Sometimes all in one post. Mate.
There is no need for cherry picking what can be said simply as "defending the abuser", hell, man, you're literally kissing his lower back there. And then you instantly shift the blame "but those other guys doing AI, yeah, they're so bad!" Am I cherry picking from a whole paragraph now? Mm? Should I keep getting onto every single post you've made here?
Fine. He said she said let's go
Okay, next. Imaginary people saying about 2 weeks of work vs 6 months and made up "on and on and on". Just stuff pulled out of thin air for the sake of an impactful argument, exaggerating what's being said to abusers. "One click AI mods" and "low-effort mods to maximize the profit" - that's what is being said. So don't twist it, and don't make stuff up. How about that? Because in the very next sentence you contradict yourself and use actual valid point about AI and low effort mods, that you used in a twisted way in a previous sentence. Again, in defense of an abuser. "Needs sorting". Of course it does. Good job, you said what is being done, but shame it's being said in the same, again, post, where you lick bad guy's boots. Do you understand why it doesn't matter what "good" you said? And why I chose to ignore it? No? Because it makes no sense. Constant contradiction. Make up your mind.
Next, 3 million boob mods you think are not really mods, and point you're trying to make with it that not all collections are bad just because some people say they are bad. Or "not really mods", and you again, contradict yourself, because by "THE GOOD ONES" you are implying Exoclyps. That's the only possible valid conclusion people can make based on your awe of the guy and his collection.
Also, nice blame shift at "bad collections DP grabs" again, and boobs mods = obvious straw man. And also indirectly belittling other people's work, which you bashed just a moment ago. Damn boi.
Only other thing you said directly about some solution - that maybe DP shouldn't be awarded when collection isn't being updated for a long time (or autotransferred to charity). And otherwise - collections should get rewards. Especitally Exoclyps. OMG Exoclyps uwu.
In your latest post, AFTER you accused me in cherry picking, you said money part of DP should be removed. But I'm very sorry, you cannot retroactively blame me in ignoring what didn't exist at the time of you making "cherry picking" argument.
Okay continuing with the post. Now you're blaming me in focusing on a single thing that you want collections to get rewards. I'm not. I'm focusing on you defending a parasite, saying that omg exoclyps deserves to be rewarded =) And that I'm ignoring what you've said, that you didn't know. Am I to believe it, in a thread full of people screaming "look at this guy wow, shame on you exoclyps", under a news post that literally is addressing this exact issue =D
Again, you clearly have been reading my posts (you confirmed it by expressing your knowledge of me "lashing everyone off"), so it is 100% safe to assume you've been reading posts other people wrote. So you've seen it all. How much attention you've paid - that I don't know. But with all the word twisting, manipulations, some good dose of lies - ye mate, how about no.
Please do let me know if I cherry picked something and missed an important part.
p.s. you can accuse me in anything you want but I won't reply in another 8-12 hours, and when I do - it won't be with a long post, because this went way too far already. So please don't expect swift response or another essay.
Was out yesterday so didn't see your comment until now. And I suppose this is directed to more than you.
I agree that I could for sure have done a better job bundling a few of my mods, but those "PreVisibines" or similar mods equal perhaps 10-15% of my total count. Most of my mods actually do provide fixes or features that anyone in the community can benefit from.
And you'll also notice that I already bundle a lot of stuff, but kept things somewhat separated as it made life a lot easier.
Like the "StoryWealth F4SE" Settings modpage. It gives non-collection users also access to use the specific settings. Heck the one that was made by Martend way back has over a 1000 endorsements and many non-collection users sharing comments there.
So it's not that I split things up for the purpose of just pushing the count. For example my latest Backpacks compatibility patches I actually bundled into a "eXoCompat" page, and this was before the DP change. And this wasn't the first mod I did the same.
In the end the reason I have this massive count of mods is not due to me trying to "farm the system", but rather because people in the collection kept reporting issues on old mods that needed fixing. And this is not something you could reasonably expect someone to bundle together as that doesn't really make sense. It's just turning into a thing because of the high traffic the collection is getting, which I agree was insane due to the show.
To clarify one thing. I never expected to see the high amount of traffic from the show, nor did I realistically believe that I deserved the amount of DP that all those downloads would have brought me in the old system. What I'm mostly trying to say here is that my high amount of mods is less about me trying to cheat the system, and more about the fact that I spent the last 2 years, in what could be considered full-time work (probably more as I'd often spend 12 hours a day, every day) amount of time on patching and working on the collection.
This is something only people that don't do modding can believe.
You have 744 mods in your collection. 109 of those are your "Patches".
BRO you stuffed in not 10-15 mods but 109???
For every single download a mod author gets, you get 109x more
Let that sink in
How many of those do you see as individual mod pages on Nexus?
I’ll wait while you count, and in the meantime, I rest my case.
Have you guys reviewed the kind of patches/mods I make?
They are mostly for individual mods that others not using the collection also regularly benefits from. As I said before, maybe 10-15% I could have bundled better, but beyond that it'd would have just made it harder for the user to find it.
I had multiple users tell me in the Collective Modding discord that they appreciate that I keep my patches available for the individual mods that they patch for, rather than a "bundled StoryWealth fixes" or similar. There is many other mod authors who do similar approach there on how they release their patching, because it makes sense.
The problem here arose because there is no reason for me to patch for something that is not included in the collection, so makes sense that I'd add most of my mods. And this wouldn't have been any issue to being with if it wasn't for the fact that A StoryWealth ended up getting insane amount of traffic during the Show Rush. If there was 10 other lists sharing the popularity and A StoryWealth would have had a smaller share no one would have batted an eye here.
I’d also be remiss if I didn’t point out we are in the exact same boat. I believe I had a 7500% increase in traffic in a single day - I’m sure you experienced the same, likely more. And I quite literally celebrated your collection and streamed it myself, saying I had a good time with it and I honestly expected it to be far worse. You were there, remember? I actively want us all to succeed. This isn’t about you, or me, or any specific person. You’re merely a contributor to the problem, and I’m glad to see an upcoming solution.
@Livelynightmare, for example, what's the difference between my patches and say your Typo Patches? Heck, in the mods I fixed typos I also fixed a bunch of other things as well, that the end user would be able to benefit from. Or should we take the SS2C2 - 3DNPC Patch? I've done a dozen similar patches. Should I have not shared those on Nexus?
I don't think I did anything wrong with these patches (except for the few I admit I could have bundled better, but again, that's a very small percentage). Which I then proceeding to add to the collection.
Like my "StoryWealth World - PreVisibines" for example I admit I could, and probably should, have bundled together with some other stuff. But these are just a few mods speckled in there.
Let me put it in perspective so people understand a bit better.
Caliente, a guy that made CBBE, Bodyslide, Outfit studio on all Bethesda games has 9.4 mil unique downloads.
You have over 10 million. Must be superb patches im sure!
Have you finished counting how many mods I have on nexus that are in my collections? Shall we compare notes? 🤣
Or you mean to say these are just a few of those you released and you have a lot of similar "unreleased" mods. Then my question still stands, is it wrong of me to share my fixes on Nexus in a way that's easily accessible by other mod users?
Four are Starfield mods. I don’t have a Starfield list. one of them is even merged into the community patch now so honestly it’s useless at this point.
People are Strangers was made for GamerPoets because he’s bad with conditions and asked for a favor. I obliged. I don’t even use it.
Shroud Manor patch. I don’t use CC.
BTI patch. Superseded by Pra’s, and he asked permission to merge my changes into his. I obliged. His is better and I’m glad I was able to help with that.
Shadow of Skyrim stuff. I don’t use that mod. Cool idea though.
Typo patches. Yeah, I can probably merge those and make a FOMOD. But that would probably necessitate a new mod page, and I don’t want to be like you.
The only modlist-specific thing is the Patches for Tempus, and honestly that was me being lazy. It’s a collection of patches that could be useful for everyone, but I didn’t feel like making a FOMOD with 75+ options at the time. But they’re method patches so the naming convention is easy to pick up. I should probably do that.
Notably absent are things akin to Storywealth Previsibines, Storywealth MCM Settings, Storywealth Balance Changes, Storywealth World patches, Storywealth Item Sorter Outputs. I can go on. Are you getting the picture yet? You’re a damn parasite.
As I said before, those mods are maybe 10-15% of my mods. For the Sorter Output and PreVisibines I get not releasing that as standalone (2 mods out of 109). The two, or was it 3? World patches too, sure. But the "Lighting" part of my America Rising 2 brought in quite a few non-collection downloads too. Still, that's say 5 out of 109 mods.
I suppose I could "hide-away" my balance patches too? Or I suppose bundle them as "StoryWealth Balance Patches". I think that was 2 of them and some users actually end up using them. But lets say I hide those away as well, why give people access to my changes unless they use the collection!? But sure, 7 out of 109 mods covered now.
I have an eXoterior Patch that is admittedly fairly StoryWealth centered, I suppose I could bundle that. So another patch, 8 out of 109.
Then it's the "Armors Patches" or "Weapons Patches" that technically could have been made into dozen of "unofficial weapons/armors" patches I could have shared. Lemme bundle that too. 10 out of 109.
I have my "eXoSorter Interface" that is for the collection, but I figure no one want my interface changes either with all the extra icons that you can get if you grab my sorter patches spread out on various mod pages. Lets remove that too?
Dude, really, the amount of patches that is "StoryWealth Only" is a lot less than you make it sound like.
Again, 10-15% perhaps. So even if we bundled that I'd still have 90-100 mods, all either standalone mods or patches for other mods out there.
In the end, the implication I'm getting is that I'm a "parasite" for sharing my mods on Nexus so everyone can use them, instead of bundling them with the collection.
Random sampling your files, it seems most of them have a very poor view to download ratios. You've got stuff like F4SE settings, which has 154k downloads versus 36k views - that listing alone has likely raked in more in DP than many mod authors have made from actual, legitimate mods. If this was in isolation I'd say no problem -- but it appears to be a consistent issue across your files!
It seems that whilst you protest these changes, you are case in point as to why they are needed. You should absolutely feel uncomfortable.
Why should I feel uncomfortable? I get a change was needed. I just don't feel I deserve the hate I'm getting.
But if you disregard the download rate for a moment and look at the views alone. A mod that ended up getting 36k views, is that a mod that did not warrant being shared on Nexus? Collections themselves don't bring that many views, most of those 36k views are native views, regardless of the collection.
Am I a bad actor for sharing that on Nexus?
Just to clear things up. You are conflating two different things. You aren't getting all this hate for an abusive practice. Fish gotta swim, birds gotta eat, you made out and now the jig is up, move on.
No, you are getting all this hate precisely because you are here defending your actions and calling all of us stupid by playing dumb. Had you kept your mouth shut and simply accepted that the free ride is over no one would have said a GD thing to you.
Aside from a few rare cases you'll find that most of my mods are mods that any regular mod author would have released, curator or not.
Am I then a bad actor for having added these mods to the collection? In the end, the ultimate goal was always to improve the collection, while also sharing as much as possible with the community and users that didn't use it. Now I'm bad for doing that?
This all very vague, and I think so on purpose. It also makes me worry about favoritism.
Some day soon, you'll be asking: "Picky! What are you doing in my living room!"
To which he will only reply, tapping his bat, "Babe wake up, it's time to update your 100 mod descriptions, or no DP."
A good quality mod often doesn't need any updating, at least if the author tests their work, which some don't. It's not the same between games which get constant updates and older games that some of us mod that are still quite popular. There is often nothing to update, because the game doesn't change, other than providing bugfixes when time allows.
I do appreciate cracking down on people piecemealing things, that's long overdue.
All the necessary information can be contained in a few sentences.
Most of the rules for installing mods are identical to most existing mods.
Therefore, it is the most annoying thing to write huge descriptions, add colorful text and pictures so that even adult children can install it.
"Grouping compatibility patches together. If you made 20 patches with at least one mod in common, group them by that mod. You can still offer them as alternate main files on a single mod page."
For Fallout 4 around 2022 I created a framework called "My Little Armor" to add a complex defense system to normal clothes. After that time to time I added more and more individual or pack of clothes (around 30 actually) to this framework with their own dependencies in separate mods.
By example, the entire pack clothes pack 4 from DonEb.
I can (I will not) attempt do delete all these individual patch mods and recreate them one by one as optional in the main page of My Little Armor each with their own requirement dependencies.
if I do that I will severely confuse the main page with tons of requirements not linked to the main mod,
Who receive DP for creating a compatibility patch for this framework?
From what I understand:
Me: None
Another modder that create the same compatibility patch in a separate page: yes
I will not receive DP for adding a patch but the others yes despite I'm the one that create the most ones and added the more choice to users.
Currently I will wait for Nexus to clarify all that before posting new mods,
Thank
When people look at a mod-page for a mod they'll check the "Requirements" page and then see "Patch for X" and know "I need that!". But if you start bundle things into more generic mod-pages you'll no longer see "Patch for X" and maybe "Patch Hub for this mod". User won't know if that page actually has something they need or not due to the generic name.
From my understanding though in their latest FAQ update, their change was to make this "less of a dp issue". So if anything the new algorithm should make it so doing it this way is fine and you no longer will get "unfair DP".
But I think this part of the FAQ should answer your question in the end:
But I think we also need to have more detail about the "be aware that having lots of mod pages doesn't necessarily correlate to additional Donation Points." because no one want to enter in a DP program and lose the benefit of the DP program for a patch or a normal mod update if the DP program do not give you DP for that.
My opinion is a separate patch or an update in the same page must also be included in DP program.
You know, no one will subscribe to a DP program and work on an update for nothing.
Probably it's the case of these buggy weapons releases with 50k download in one day and immediately forgotten by their authors that never add an update, just because adding a simple update don't give them anymore DP.
i have been working hard daily for many years to produce the best i can, and to improve the stuff produced already, and i was allways grateful for the dp system and the philosophy behind it, as a reward to those who work hard, so, i will wait patiently for how the new changes will be applied, and i believe they will be in the best and most fair way possible.
thanks for the support you give me and to the other authors
This is stressing me out and I'm doing my best, so I appreciate your perspective.
Cant wait for the lazy zero effort one-clickers to get btfo
delay with reports doesn't help either, people committed to modding won't know how to plan their free time for the next 3 months, because it isn't clear will DPs be more or less comparable to previous months or fall considerably.
The article clearly says what they should be doing to increase their share.
Allow me to make a prediction. Some crook/hacker who enjoys a good challenge will crack this new algorithm in spite of the lack of transparency and in around a year or two we'll be right back here discussing a new new system that hopefully will work this time. It's a never ending cycle. How do you make smarter mice? You build a better mouse trap. Smarter mice inspire better traps and so on.
The discussion about it is pointless and so is the argument about missing loyality towards the Nexus and its owner. You bet someone dedicating a lot of passion, time and sharing effort ranging across multiple platforms, to the cause, probably doesn't do that out of disloyality. But that doesn't mean one refuses to accpet free money for nothing, if it literally gets throwen at them.
I said it once, I say it again. Money, or any other compensation in that regard, really shouldn't be the motivator to why we are doing this whole modding madness(both creating and using). The major reason for me is because I love playing games, and I love to fiddle them up to customize the experience. Nobody's perfect after all, not even big game companies. Luckily the Nexus provides decent service and a reliable place to backup my stuff.
If there's one thing this discussion shows then it's there are many reasons why to remove the DP, and there are only a few sane to keep it in place, if your intention really is to push and help the Nexus to stay alive/enable it for creating an even better user experience. Of course, you'd be doing that by giving up some personal benefit. How much discipline and consequence can you manage to bring up in that regard?
What we do want is a less abuseable System that treats those who actually care about their mods get treated fairly
A system that would give authors a general overview of their status in monthly DP report. In a "useful advice" manner, that would inform on issues that are present, without exposing the algo for bad actors. For example
And so on. Idea is - to let authors know if they're doing something wrong, a hint of what exactly might be wrong, and a way to request manual review, because algo can't be perfect, it will misfire and bury valid work. It's also important if an algorithm misfired - DP has to be recalculated. Punishment for false positive is uncool.
It says you should “Create awesome mod pages” to "still get a good share".
But what is "awesome"?Who defines "awesome"?
Am I awesome enough?Am I currently being punished because lack of awesome?
Am I get a better or worse share than last month?
Without telling any useful information,the "Create awesome mod pages" or any other requirement is totally nonsense.
They have no valid raison or incentive to advice mod authors. They get revenues from ads. No advertiser want to have to pay to show up on an empty or inatractive page.
Authors get DP from downloads. They're the one to figure out for the packaging of their products.
The site has tones of visitors/users. Paying attention to not waste one's ressources and taking advantage on what on offer is key.
If you really have no clue, just learn from a successful mod page.
People are taking this general counsel in the Nexus post as some kind of binding directive/requirement - the Nexus is not going to dictate what a good mod page looks like or what an acceptable update schedule is (or if there is one at all, some mods are just one and done), and I don't think there is a definitive consensus on what a good mod page looks like nor will there ever be one. You can identify some common elements:
- easy to read, not a word salad or a riot of colors/images
- explains what the mod does concisely and clearly
- clear instructions for installing/removing that can be understood by a lay audience (technical writing is hard, which is why it's a profession!)
- anything else that is relevant to the mod
If you want to improve your technical writing skills, google "technical writing advice". Or use a tool like https://hemingwayapp.com/ to review your text and make sure it is readable (something like this could potentially be integrated in the mod page creation tool, that might be interesting, but given how shitty the tool is now, I'd not hold my breath, I'd be happy if they just made the process of sharing a mod less time-consuming)
What the Nexus post meant by these "guidelines" is general advice. If you do these things (in addition to making a mod people enjoy), your mod will stand out more, have more chance of people downloading it because they understand what it does or see it in the 'updated recently' list, thus gaining you more DP.
ps. don't come at me for having terrible mod pages myself, I'm well aware and have no plans to change.
The Free Premium was also a nice surprise. Keep up the good work!
I'm not a fan of this new system. In fact, I'm thinking of leaving the portal altogether once the lifecycle of my current projects ends.
The lack of transparency is a major concern for me. I already had doubts about the current system after a brief analysis, and this new system only amplifies those concerns.