April 24, 2024

♪ CRYSTAL: HI, EVERYBODY.

I AM CRYSTAL HAYNES.

TONIGHT ON GREATER BOSTON -- THE FTC HAS BANNED NONCOMPETE AGREEMENTS FOR U.S. WORKERS, AND THE JUDICIOUS COMMUNITY IS GOING TO FIGHT BACK.

WHAT IT WILL MEAN FOR WORKERS AND THEIR EMPLOYERS HERE IN MASSACHUSETTS.

THEN, FOOD AND CULTURE GO HAND-IN-HAND, BUT WHAT HAPPENS WHEN BELOVED DISHES BECOME BIG BUSINESS?

CALLIE CROSSLEY JOINS ME TO SHARE HER THOUGHTS.

ONE MAN’S DECADES LONG SEARCH FOR ONE LAST CONNECTION TO HIS LATE BROTHER.

HE SHARES HIS STORY, AHEAD.

NONCOMPETE CLAUSES ARE NO MORE.

THE FEDERAL TRADE COMMISSION VOTED TO BAN THEM THIS WEEK FOR ALL U.S. WORKERS, ARGUING THE CLAUSES KEPT WAGES DOWN AND KEPT WORKERS IN HOSTILE CONDITIONS CAN THE NEW RULES WILL TAKE EFFECT IN AUGUST AND WILL NEGATE MOST EXISTING NONCOMPETE.

BUSINESS ORGANIZATIONS ARE ALREADY PUSHING BACK, INCLUDING THE U.S. CHAMBER OF COMMERCE, WHICH FILED A LAWSUIT TO BLOCK THIS RULE.

BUSINESS AND EMPLOYMENT ATTORNEY ANDREW BOTTI IS AGAINST THE FTC’S DECISION.

HE JOINS ME NOW ALONG WITH TERRI GERSTEIN, DIRECTOR OF THE NYU WAGNER LABOR INITIATIVE, WHO IS IN FAVOR OF THIS RULING.

WELCOME TO YOU BOTH.

TERRI: THANK YOU.

CRYSTAL: LET’S CATCH FOLKS UP WHO MAY NOT HAVE BEEN FOLLOWING THIS AS CLOSELY AS ALL OF YOU HAVE.

HOW IS THIS A WIN FOR FOLKS IN WORKPLACES?

TERRI: SO NON-COMPLETE PROVISIONS IN EMPLOYMENT CONTRACTS PREVENT WORKERS FROM BEING ABLE TO GET A JOB WITH A COMPETITOR OF THEIR EMPLOYER FOR A CURATED TIME.

INCREASINGLY, THEY HAVE BEEN USED IN A REALLY BROAD RANGE OF WORKPLACES.

THE FTC HAS ESTIMATED 18% OF WORKERS COME AROUND 30 MILLION PEOPLE, ARE SUBJECT TO THEM.

THIS MEANS PEOPLE WHO WOULD GET A BETTER JOB WITH SOMEONE ACROSS THE STREET OR IN A DIFFERENT PART OF TOWN, THEY ARE NOT ALLOWED TO MOVE AND TO CHANGE JOBS BECAUSE THEY HAVE A NONCOMPETE.

WHAT THIS MEANS FOR WORKERS ALSO IS THAT IT ENDS UP RESULTING TO OBVIOUSLY LOWER JOB MOBILITY BUT ALSO IT HAS A WAGE SUPPRESSION IMPACT, BECAUSE WORKERS CANNOT GO GET THAT BETTER JOB THAT PAYS MORE, AND THEY CANNOT USE THE THREAT OF LEAVING TO BE ABLE TO NEGOTIATE FOR MORE WITH THEIR EMPLOYER.

SO THE FTC’S, THE RULE THAT WOULD BAN NON-COMPETES, REALLY PUTS WORKERS IN A MUCH BETTER POSITION AND ALSO HELPS THE ECONOMY, BECAUSE THERE’S LOTS OF EVIDENCE SHOWING THEY ARE USED FOR INNOVATION AND BAD FOR ENTREPRENEURIALISM.

CRYSTAL: ANDREW, THE FTC ESTIMATES THAT BANNING NONCOMPETE AGREEMENTS COULD RAISE WAGES BY NEARLY $300 BILLION A YEAR.

WHY IS IT A BAD THING?

ANDREW: I’M NOT SURE WHERE THEY GOT THAT NUMBER, QUITE FRANKLY.

YOU KNOW, I HAVE TO LOOK AT THIS GRADUALLY COME ABOUT 10 YEARS AGO, WHEN I WAS THE CHAIRMAN OF A SMALL BUSINESS ASSOCIATION -- I HAD TO LOOK AT THIS GRAND DREW GRANNY WILLIE -- GRANULARLY, ABOUT 10 YEARS AGO, WHEN I WAS THE CHAIRMAN OF A SMALL BUSINESS ASSOCIATION.

WHAT I FOUND WAS INTERESTING, AND CALIFORNIA, PARTICULARLY IN SILICON VALLEY, THEY HAD FEWER STARTUPS THAN WE HAVE HERE IN MASSACHUSETTS, AND MASSACHUSETTS IS ENFORCED NONCOMPETE SINCE 1811.

SILICON VALLEY, CALIFORNIA, THEY DO NOT ALLOW NON-COMPETES.

SO IT DID NOT SEEM TO BE ANY CORRELATION BETWEEN, YOU KNOW, STARTING A NEW BUSINESS AND HAVING NONCOMPETE IN YOUR STATE.

AND I WILL ALSO SAY THAT THE SAME WAS TRUE, STATISTICALLY, WITH FIGURES HAVING TO DO WITH EMPLOYMENT.

THE UNEMPLOYMENT RATE IN SILICON VALLEY WAS ABOUT 11.9%, IN MASS, IT WAS ABOUT 5%, AND IN THE TRIANGLE, WHICH IS ALSO A PLACE THAT ALLOWS NON-COMPETES, IT WAS ONLY 8%.

SO, AGAIN, THERE’S A BIT OF A DISCONNECT BETWEEN THE ARGUMENTS ABOUT NONCOMPETE HARMING THE ECONOMY AND NOT HARMING THE ECONOMY.

CRYSTAL: WHAT IS THE VALUE ADD HERE, THEN, TO KEEP THESE NON-IN PLACE?

ANDREW: THE VALUE ADD, FOR EXAMPLE, IS 89% OF BUSINESSES IN MASS HAVE FEWER EMPLOYEES.

THE COMPANIES THAT ARE DEALING WITH THESE, TRADITIONALLY, ARE MUCH SMALLER ENTITIES THAN SOMETHING LIKE DELL OR, YOU KNOW, GENERAL MOTORS.

SO IT IS VERY IMPORTANT FOR THEM TO BE ABLE TO PROTECT THEIR INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY AND CONFIDENTIAL INFORMATION, YOU KNOW, TO THE EXTENT THAT THEY ARE NOT UNDONE BY SOME UNSCRUPULOUS PERSON.

SO WHAT I FOUND IN MY PRACTICE WAS THAT MY A LOT OF TIME SOME OF THE EMPLOYER’S WERE WILLING TO LET THE PEOPLE OUT OF THE NONCOMPETE, BECAUSE EITHER THEY WERE NOT GOING INTO A COMPANY THAT COMPETED DIRECTLY, OR THEY WERE GOING TO A COMPANY THAT WAS A LOT SMALLER, AND EVEN THOUGH THEY COMPETED IN SOME ASPECTS, MOST OF IT WAS NOT A SITUATION WHERE THEY WERE COMPETING DIRECTLY.

SO IT IS NOT THE CASE THAT THESE THINGS ARE ANTI-SOME PEOPLE.

IT REALLY DEPENDS ON THE SITUATION AS TO WHETHER THE PEOPLE ARE GOING TO BE LET OFF THE EMPLOYMENT CONTRACT OR NOT.

AND ALSO, ONE MORE THING, THE JUDGES HAVE TREMENDOUS POWER, TO MAKE DECISIONS IN EQUITY ON THESE AGREEMENTS.

I HAVE HAD JUDGES LOWER THE AMOUNT OF TIME A NONCOMPETE WAS IN EFFECT.

I’VE HAD THEM LOWER THE GEOGRAPHICAL AREA, MAKE IT SMALLER.

SO, AGAIN, IT IS REALLY A FLUID SITUATION.

IT IS NOT SOMETHING YOU CAN MAKE ONE STATEMENT ABOUT.

CRYSTAL: I WANT TO READ THIS STATEMENT FROM LENA KAHN, THE CHAIR OF THE FEDERAL TRADE AGREEMENT, SHE WRITES NONCOMPETE CLAUSES KEEP WAGES LOW, SUPPRESS NEW IDEAS COME AND ROB THE AMERICAN ECONOMY OF DYNAMISM, INCLUDING FROM THE MORE THAN 800 FOR -- MORE THAN 8500 NEW STARTUPS THAT WOULD BE CREATED A YEAR ONCE NONCOMPETE OUR BAND.

THAT GOES TO YOUR POINT ABOUT SMALL BUSINESSES.

THE FTC’S FINAL RULE TO BAN NON-COMPETES WILL ASSURE AMERICANS HAVE THE FREEDOM TO PURSUE A NEW JOB, START A NEW BUSINESS, AND BRING A NEW IDEA TO THE MARKET.

TERRI, I WANT YOU TO WEIGH IN HERE.

DO YOU THINK KEEPING THE NONCOMPETE WILL BENEFIT SMALL BUSINESSES OR HELP THEM?

TERRI: WELL, THERE’S ACTUALLY, WE HEARD SOME ANECDOTAL EVIDENCE JUST NOW, AND THERE IS PLENTY OF ANECDOTAL EVIDENCE, YOU KNOW, FROM EMPLOYERS AND FROM WORKERS, BUT WHAT IS REALLY INTERESTING THAT HAS COME OUT IN THE PAST COUPLE OF YEARS IS THAT A NUMBER OF STATES HAVE PASSED LAWS BANNING OR CURBING NON-COMPETES IN VARIOUS WAYS, SO THAT HAS CREATED A NUMBER OF NATURAL EXPERIMENTS, WHERE THEY CAN COMPARE WHAT HAPPENS IN A STATE WHERE YOU BAND NONCOMPETE, OR YOU REALLY LIMIT THEM, VERSUS WHERE YOU ALLOW THEM TO RAIN, AND THERE HAS BEEN A TON OF RESEARCH ON THIS IN SEVERAL YEARS, AND IT HAS OVERWHELMINGLY SHOWN THAT WHEN YOU ALLOW NON-COMPETES, THAT IS HARMFUL FOR NEW FIRM FORMATIONS, SO IN OTHER WORDS, STATES THAT HAD NON-COMPETES HAD MORE BUSINESSES SHOW -- STARTING.

WHERE YOU LIMITED NONCOMPETE IS, THERE WERE MORE PATENTS THAT WERE SUBMITTED COMMEND THE PATENTS WERE MORE INNOVATIVE THAN WHERE NONCOMPETE’S WORK SUBMITTED TO IT I THINK THE EVIDENCE REALLY SHOWS, WHEN YOU LOOK AT ALL OF THESE ECONOMIC STANDINGS -- STUDIES, AND THE FTC GOT 26,000 COMMENTS FROM THE PUBLIC WHEN THEY WERE CONSIDERING THIS RULE, AND 25,000 OF THEM WERE IN SUPPORT OF THE RULE, INCLUDING FROM A LOT OF ECONOMISTS, BASICALLY, YOU KNOW, WHO STARTED OUT AND SAID, LET’S DO A NATIONAL EXPERIMENT.

LET’S SEE WHAT ACTUALLY HAPPENS IN THE REAL WORLD WHEN WE PERMIT OR DON’T PERMIT NON-COMPETES, AND THIS IS WHAT THEY FOUND.

SO, YOU KNOW, ONE THING THAT HAS BEEN INTERESTING TO ME, I SPENT MUCH OF MY GEAR ENFORCING LAWS IN THE NEW YORK ATTORNEY GENERAL’S OFFICE, AND ONE THING THAT HAS BEEN INTERESTING TO ME IS NON-COMPETES DON’T ACTUALLY -- IT IS NOT A ZERO-SUM AND ADVERSARIAL AS MANY OTHER LABOR ISSUES ARE.

THERE ARE A LOT OF EMPLOYERS WHO DO NOT LIKE NON-COMPETES, BECAUSE THEY WANT TO BE ABLE TO HIRE THE BEST WORKERS.

AND ON THE QUESTION OF, LIKE, THAT JUDGES CAN MODIFY IT AND THERE IS SOME FLEXIBILITY, THERE’S A LOT OF RESEARCH THAT SHOWS A LOT OF WORKERS IN THE U.S. DON’T KNOW WHAT THEIR RIGHTS ARE.

IF THEY GET A LAWYERED OF DOCUMENT WITH THEIR EMPLOYMENT CONTRACT, THEY WILL ASSUME IT IS VALUED -- VALID.

IF THERE IS A NONCOMPETE THAT HAS NO BUSINESS BEING IN THERE, MOST PEOPLE END UP THINKING IT IS VALID AND BEHAVING ACCORDINGLY AND DON’T LOOK FOR OTHER OPPORTUNITIES.

AND THEY END UP STAYING IN THIS JOB.

.

SO EVEN IF YOU HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY WHERE IT WENT BEFORE A JOB -- JUDGE THAT IT WOULD BE LIMITED, WHO WANTS TO GO BEFORE THEIR EMPLOYER AND ULTIMATELY BEFORE A JUDGE?

NON-COMPETES REALLY PREVENT ORDINARY WORKING PEOPLE FROM BEING ABLE TO GET A NEW JOB.

CRYSTAL: ANDREW, AS WE MENTIONED BEFORE WE STARTED TAPING HERE, WE KNOW THAT IT IS NOT A SURPRISE THAT LAWSUITS HAVE COME OR APPEALS HAVE COME IN THE WAKE OF THIS DECISION.

THE U.S. CHAMBER OF COMMERCE, AS WE MENTIONED, FILED A LAWSUIT, THAT THIS RULE WOULD AFFECT SOME 30 MILLION U.S. WORKERS, AND ALSO THAT IT IS ILLEGAL.

IS THAT YOUR STANCE, ANDREW?

ANDREW: IN TERMS OF THE LAW ITSELF, I DON’T THINK THAT THE FTC HAS THE AUTHORITY TO DO THIS.

I’M NOT AN EXPERT ON GOVERNMENTAL LAW, BUT THIS IS NOT SOMETHING LIKE WHAT THEY TYPICALLY DO, WHICH IS TO PREVENT SOMETHING FROM HAPPENING.

THEY ISSUE A REGULATION.

THIS IS PREVENTING SOMETHING THAT IS ALREADY HAPPENING FROM EVER HAPPENING AGAIN.

I’M NOT SURE THEY REALLY HAVE THAT AMOUNT OF POWER.

THE NONCOMPETE ISSUE IS VERY BIG, LIKE I SAID, AMONG SMALLER COMPANIES, WHICH ARE THE MAJORITY OF COMPANIES IN THE UNITED STATES, AND I’M SURE THERE’S GOING TO BE A TREMENDOUS PUSHBACK ON THIS.

CRYSTAL: THAT IS ABSOLUTELY FOR SURE, AND WE WILL SEE WHAT HAPPENS IN THE FUTURE.

LOTS OF MONEY ON THE LINE HERE, EITHER WAY.

ANDREW BOTTI AND TERRI GERSTEIN, THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR YOUR TIME.

BOTH: THANK YOU.

CRYSTAL: FOOD IS THE HEART AND SOUL OF SO MANY CULTURES, AND RECIPES PASSED DOWN FROM GENERATION TO GENERATION HELP KEEP THOSE CULTURAL IDENTITIES ALIVE, BUT WHAT HAPPENS WHEN BUSINESS GETS THROWN INTO THE MIX?

THAT IS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN CELEBRITY CHEF DAVID CHANG OF MOMAFUFU TRADEMARK CHILE SAUCE.

HE THEN SENT CEASE-AND-DESIST LETTERS TO SEVERAL SMALL COMPANIES THAT WERE ALREADY SELLING IT.

HE LATER APOLOGIZED AND SAID HE WOULD STOP ALL LEGAL ACTION, BUT THIS IS NOT THE FIRST TIME BUSINESS AND CULTURAL CUISINE HAVE CLASS.

GBH NEWS’ CALLIE CROSSLEY JOINS ME WITH MORE.

IT CERTAINLY GATHERED SOME HEADLINES.

CALLIE: THIS KIND OF STUFF GOES ON ALL THE TIME.

IT IS NOT NEW, EXCEPT IN THIS WAY.

WITH CELEBRITY SHIFT DAVID CHANG, ASIAN HIMSELF, SOMEONE WHO HAS BEEN OUT FRONT HIGHLIGHTING, CELEBRATING THE AGENT CULTURE -- ASIAN CULTURE IN FOOD AND REALLY OPENED UP MORE AVENUES FOR US WHO MIGHT NOT KNOW THE NORMAL KIND OF STUFF WE THINK WE MIGHT KNOW ABOUT ASIAN FOOD AND EXPANDING THE PALATE, IF THE CALL COME FROM INSIDE THE HOUSE, AS THEY SAY IN THE HORROR FILMS, YOU ARE SHOCKED.

SO BY TRADEMARKING CHILI CRISP, THAT MEANS ALL THESE MOM-AND-POP BUSINESSES COULD NOT GO FORWARD WITH THE NAME OF THE PRODUCT AS IT HAS BEEN SOLD FOR, I DON’T KNOW, SENTRIES AT THIS POINT.

HE SAID HE WAS TRYING TO BE CERTAIN THAT HE AVOIDED A PARTICULAR BOTTLE, I THINK YOU’VE SEEN A BOTTLE OF CHILI CRISP THAT LOOKS LIKE THIS, KIND OF AN HOURGLASS FIGURE.

THAT IS THE ONE THAT IS REALLY POPULAR.

BUT THAT IS NOT EVEN THE ONE I USED, I USE FLYBY DING, SO YOU SHUT HER DOWN, TOO.

IT WAS SHOCKING.

AND IT TOOK A WHILE FOR HIM AS YOU MENTIONED, SEVEN CEASE-AND-DESIST LETTERS BEFORE HE SAID WAIT A MINUTE, THAT IS NOT MY INTENT, TRYING TO PROTECT MY PRODUCT.

THE THING IS, HEY, YOU ARE DAVID CHANG.

I WILL PROBABLY BUY YOURS BECAUSE YOU ARE DAVID CHANG, BUT I ENJOY YOUR OTHER PRODUCTS.

YOU OF ALL PEOPLE KNOW ABOUT THE CULTURAL APPROPRIATION OF FOOD.

CRYSTAL: DO YOU THINK HE WAS TRYING TO KEEP IT IN THE CULTURE?

CALLIE: I THINK IT WAS MONEY TO I THINK IT WAS A BOTTOM LINE, IF WE TRADEMARK THIS, THIS IS OUR STOP, WE CAN AVOID THE ONE COMPANY -- THIS IS THE COMPANY PEOPLE BY THE MOST OF FROM, AND WE ARE OK.

BUT WE LOOK AROUND, AND THEY DECIDED THEY ARE GOING TO TAKE WHAT IS A CONDIMENT IN MANY PUERTO RICAN HOUSEHOLDS CALLED MAYOCHUP, WHICH IS WHAT THEY CALLED IT, A MIX OF MAYONNAISE AND KETCHUP, AND PUT THAT TOGETHER, RIGHT?

PUT IT IN A BOTTLE AND SAY HEY, HERE IS SOMETHING NEW.

[LAUGHTER] THAT’S NOT RIGHT.

THAT HAS BEEN PART OF PUERTO RICAN HOUSEHOLDS THIS LONG TIME.

APPROPRIATION IS WHEN YOU FAIL TO ACKNOWLEDGE WHERE THIS CAME FROM, CULTURALLY.

YOU CAN HAVE CULTURAL APPRECIATION, MAKE A PRODUCT AND SAY HEY, WE GOT IT.

WE GOT THE IDEA FROM THE PUERTO RICAN HOUSEHOLDS.

WE SEE EVERYBODY LIKES IT.

WE THOUGHT WE WOULD MAKE A BUCK ON IT, TOO, BUT WE KNOW WHERE IT CAME FROM.

THAT’S NOT WHAT A DICTATOR THEY PUT THEIR OWN VERSION OUT, TRYING TO ACT LIKE IT WAS SOME -- THAT IS NOT WHAT THEY DID.

THEY PUT THEIR OWN VERSION OUT, TRYING TO APPLICANT WAS SOMETHING NEW.

CRYSTAL: EVERY BRAND FROM EVERY CULTURE.

CALLIE: YES AND NO, BUT WHEN YOU START CLAIMING IT AS NOT EVEN IMPROVED, BECAUSE IMPROVED MEANS HE WOULD HAVE TO ACKNOWLEDGE THE CULTURAL ANTECEDENTS OF A, YOU ARE NOT DOING IT.

YOU ARE SAYING, THIS IS OUR BRAND-NEW IDEA COULD WE THINK IT IS GREAT!

REMEMBER WHEN THEY FIRST TALKED ABOUT GRADES FOR WHITE WOMEN?

[LAUGHTER] A NEW THING.

THE SAME THING IS HAPPENING IN FOOD.

IT IS INTERESTING TO SEE THAT WHILE IT IS NEGATIVE, IT CAN ALSO BE POSITIVE, WHEN THE PEOPLE WHO CREATE IT ARE A PART OF IT, SO I THINK ABOUT PATTI LABELLE.

WHEN PATTI LABELLE BROUGHT HER PIES OUT, ALMOST 10 YEARS AGO, EVERYBODY LOST THEIR MINDS, WHY?

THEY WERE SO AUTHENTIC IN TASTE, SHE GOT THE YES, YES, IT IS SO GOOD, FROM PEOPLE IN THE COMMUNITY SAYING, IT IS JUST LIKE MAMA USED TO MAKE, MAYBE EVEN BETTER, GO BUY IT.

SHE GOT THE MONEY FROM IT, A BLACK MARKETING EXEC PUT THAT DEAL TOGETHER.

SO YOU HAVE A WAY TO SHARE THAT WITH OTHER FOLKS BUT I THE SAME TIME, SHE WAS ABLE TO GET THE CREDIT FOR, AND WE CAN ACKNOWLEDGE THAT THIS IS A DISH THAT A LOT OF AFRICAN-AMERICAN COMMUNITIES KNOW AS THEIR OWN.

CRYSTAL: HER MARKETING TEAM DID A GREAT JOB.

CALLIE: IT DID.

CRYSTAL: WHO HAS NOT SEEN THAT MEME WITH CARDI B, WHERE SHE GOES "THAT’S WHAT I DO"?

IT WAS CROSSGENERATIONAL.

CALLIE: ABSOLUTELY.

A BIG RUSH ON THE PIES, THEY SOLD OUT FROM WALMART.

2023, $80 MILLION IN SALES FOR BOTH HER PIES AND HER MAC & CHEESE GOODBYE THE WAY, IF YOU MAKE IT FROM HER COOKBOOK IS DELICIOUS AS WELL.

I WOULD ALSO BE INTERESTED IN LOOKING AT MAMBO SAUCE IN D.C.

IT IS A SAUCE THAT CAME UP FROM THE ROOTS OF THE AFRICAN-AMERICAN COMMUNITY AND OTHER FOLKS WHO CAME FROM, YOU KNOW, THE CARIBBEAN, PUT THAT TOGETHER.

IT IS LIKE YOU GO TO GET A FAST FOOD THING AND YOU DON’T HAVE MAMBO SAUCE, EVERYBODY IS LIKE, WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT, IF YOU ARE IN D.C., SO YOU FEEL KINDA STUPID.

THAT HAS BEEN THE CULTURAL TOUCH POINT FOR A LONG PERIOD OF TIME.

MCDONALD’S DECIDED THEY WOULD ADD IT.

THEY DIDN’T SAY IT CAME FROM THE REGIONAL AREA OF D.C. FROM THOSE -- THEY DID SAY IT CAME FROM THE REGIONAL AREA OF D.C., FROM THOSE AREAS.

IN THE D.C. AREA, YOU CAN GET MAMBO SAUCE AS WELL.

THERE IS ONE COMPANY CALLED CAPITAL CITY, WHICH IS BLACK AND WOMAN-OWN, AND SHE JUST MADE A DEAL WITH THE WASHINGTON COMMANDERS, THAT THEY WOULD, AT THEIR GAMES IN THE CONCESSION STANDS ON THE USE MAMBO SAUCE THAT SHE CREATED, WHICH OBVIOUSLY COMES UP FROM THE COMMUNITY.

SO WE CAN ACKNOWLEDGE, WE CAN APPRECIATE THEM AND EVERYBODY CAN COME OUT IN THE END.

I JUST WANT TO SEE THAT HAPPENING, AND I HOPE THAT FOLKS ARE LOOKING AT THE DAVID CHANG SITUATION.

I KNOW HE IS HIMSELF IN AND SAYING THIS IS NOT THE WAY TO GO.

CRYSTAL: AND I KNOW THAT SOCIAL MEDIA CAN BE A WILD PLACE AND THINGS LIKE THAT.

CALLIE: WILD.

[LAUGHTER] CRYSTAL: WILD, RIGHT?

YOU SEE SOME OF THE APPROPRIATION AND FOLKS WANT TO GIVE IT BACK.

YOU MIGHT SEE FOLKS DEMONIZING ETHNIC FOOD AND THEN SAYING IT IS A GOOD THING, LEFT AND RIGHT.

IT IS DIFFERENT WHEN BUSINESSES AND COMPANIES ARE PROPPING FROM IT AND NOT GETTING THE -- ARE PROFITING FROM IT AND NOT GIVING THE CORRECT ASSOCIATION.

CALLIE: DON’T DO THAT, DAVID CHANG, DON’T DO THAT IN THE FAMILY.

GLAD HE CAME TO THE SENSES.

APPARENTLY THERE IS SOME LEGAL THING WHERE YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO STOP PEOPLE WHO USE YOUR TRADEMARK AFTER YOU HAVE GONE THROUGH THE PROCESS, SO THEY HAVE GOT TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO DO THAT NOW THAT HE, IN FACT, OWNS THE TRADEMARK.

CRYSTAL: I WILL ADMIT I USE THE CHILI SAUCE FROM TRADER JOE’S.

CALLIE: I BET YOU AN ASIAN COMPANY MAKES IT.

IT IS PRETTY GOOD.

CRYSTAL: PROBABLY.

THANK YOU, CALLIE.

FINALLY TONIGHT COME A MISSED CONNECTION IS NOT ALWAYS HAVE TO BE A LOSS.

JAMES GRIFFIN LEARNED THAT FIRSTHAND WHEN HE WENT OUT TO HONOR THE MEMORY OF HIS LATE BROTHER, WHO DIED IN THE VIETNAM WAR.

JAMES SHARED HIS EXPERIENCE WITH STORIES FROM THE STATION AND WE BRING THAT TO YOU NOW AS PART OF A PARTNERSHIP BETWEEN THAT SHOW AND THIS ONE.

JAMES: SUMMER 1967, WHILE I WAS PLAYING LITTLE LEAGUE BASEBALL, MY BROTHER TOMMY WENT TO VIETNAM.

HE WAS 19 YEARS OLD.

HE WAS ASSIGNED TO THE ARMY POSTAL UNIT COMING BACK HOME, WE THOUGHT HE HAD A DESK JOB AND HE WOULD BE SAFE.

SIX MONTHS LATER, AS I WAS WATCHING THE EVENING NEWS WITH MY BROTHERS, THE DOORBELL RANG.

WHEN I ANSWERED IT, THERE WAS A LARGE MENNONITE UNIFORM STANDING ON MY FRONT PORCH.

HE LEANED OVER TO ME AND SAID, SON, IS YOUR MOTHER AT HOME?

I WAS 11 YEARS OLD.

HAVING A MAN IN A UNIFORM ON THE FRONT PORCH DID NOT MEAN ANYTHING TO ME.

I JUST YELLED OUT, "MA, SOMEONE IS AT THE DOOR."

MY MOM IMMEDIATELY STARTED TO CRY.

THE HOUSE AND INTO A TIZZY.

MY DAD CAME HOME FROM HIS NIGHT JOB, MY OLDER BROTHERS AND SISTERS CRY COME ON’S AND UNCLES CAME BY THE HOUSE.

FRIENDS AND NEIGHBORS CAME BY THE HOUSE, SOME DROPPED OFF FOOD, AND I WAS ABLE TO READ THE TELEGRAM THE OFFICER LEFT MY MOTHER.

THE SECRETARY OF THE ARMY HAS ASKED ME TO EXPRESS HIS DEEP REGRETS, YOUR SON IS MISSING IN VIETNAM.

HE WAS LASTING AS A PASSENGER ON A MILITARY AIRCRAFT THAT CRASHED AND BURNED FOR UNKNOWN REASONS.

AFTER I READ THAT, I REALIZED MY BROTHER WAS NOT COMING HOME.

AFTER WE BURIED MY BROTHER, MY MOTHER WOULD SOMETIMES SAY ALOUD, I WONDER WHAT HE WAS GOING ON AN AIRCRAFT FOR SHE SAID SHE NEVER WORRIED ABOUT HIM BECAUSE HE HAD A DESK JOB.

FLASH FORWARD 15 YEARS, WE ARE HANGING AT MY LOCAL BAR ROOM WITH MY YOUNGER BROTHER, AND ONE OF THE GUYS COMES UP TO US AND SAYS HE MET A GUY THAT WAS DELIVERING SOMETHING HIS WORK, WHO CLAIMS MY BROTHER TOOK HIS PLACE ON A HELICOPTER THAT WENT DOWN IN VIETNAM.

HE COULD NOT GIVE ME THE GUY’S NAME, DID NOT KNOW WHERE THE GUY WORKED, SO I JUST FILED THAT STORY AWAY.

THERE WAS NO FOLLOW-UP.

MY MOTHER DIED IN DECEMBER OF 1985, AND SHE NEVER KNEW THE CIRCUMSTANCES AROUND MY BROTHERS DEATH.

FLASH FORWARD ANOTHER 15 YEARS SOME OF THE LATE 1990’S, MY FATHER SAYS ONE NIGHT, I WOULD REALLY LIKE TO KNOW WHAT HAPPENS TO YOUR BROTHER.

I PROMISED HIM I WOULD FIND OUT.

I FIGURED I HAD THE STORY FROM THE BARROOM, I WILL DO A QUICK INTERNET SEARCH, AND I WILL HAVE AN ANSWER IN ABOUT TWO DAYS.

I SPENT A BIG CHUNK OF THE NEXT T -- TWO YEARS IN CHAT ROOMS AND CAME UP WITH NOTHING.

I REMEMBER MY MOTHER HAD A PHOTOGRAPH WITH MY BROTHER WITH THREE GUYS IN VIETNAM, SHE HAD WRITTEN THEIR NAMES AND HOMESTAYS ON THE BACK OF THE PICTURE.

I FOUND IT AND STARTED RANDOMLY CALLING PEOPLE WITH THOSE NAMES IN THOSE STATES, AND I CAME UP WITH NOTHING.

MY DAD DIED IN OCTOBER 2004, AND I WAS NOT ABLE TO KEEP MY PROMISE.

I STOPPED SEARCHING SOON AFTER THAT, BUT EVERY ONCE IN A WHILE, A WILL -- I WILL TYPE MY BROTHER’S NAME INTO GOOGLE COME IN THE FIRST HIT WILL BE THE VIETNAM MEMORIAL IN WASHINGTON, D.C., AND AFTER THAT, LOCAL AND STATE MONUMENT SITES.

AFTER MY DAD DIED, OCTOBER 2011, I WAS SITTING ON MY DESK AT WORK, AND I TYPED MY BROTHER’S NAME INTO GOOGLE.

THE FIRST HIT WAS THE WALL IN D.C.

THE SECOND WASN’T MILITARY FRIENDS NETWORK, THERE WAS A POSTING THAT WAS TWO YEARS OLD THAT SAID, THOMAS GRIFFIN TOOK MY PLACE ON A POSTAL HELICOPTER THAT WENT DOWN IN VIETNAM.

NOT ONE DAY HAS GONE BY IN THE LAST 40 YEARS THAT I HAVE NOT THOUGHT ABOUT HIM.

MY EYES POPPED OUT OF MY HEAD.

THIS IS THE GUY FROM THE BARROOM STORY.

I HAVE TO FIND HIM.

I WROTE EMAILS, MADE PHONE CALLS, GOT NOTHING IN RESPONSE.

I WAS SO DEJECTED, BECAUSE I WAS SO SURE THE DOG HAD DIED IN BETWEEN THE TIME HE POSTED IN THE TIME I READ IT, YET WEEK LATER WHEN I WAS DRIVING HOME FROM MY OFFICE IN DOWNTOWN BOSTON, MY CELL PHONE RANG, AND WHEN I ANSWERED IT, A VOICE SAID, IS THIS JIM, I SAID YES.

HE SAID THIS IS DOUG.

I ALMOST DROVE UP ON THE SIDEWALK.

HE APOLOGIZED FOR NOT CALLING SOON YOUR PURE HE HAD BEEN ON A BUSINESS TRIP IN BOSTON.

HE WAS WORKING STREETS AWAY FROM MY OFFICE GOOD HE SAID YOU HAD NEVER SPOKE ABOUT THIS TO ANYONE, NOT EVEN MY WIFE.

HE MET MY BROTHER IN JULY OF 1967.

HE SAID THEY BECAME VERY CLOSE, AND THEY WORKED TOGETHER IN THE POSTAL UNIT.

HE SAID IN LATE DECEMBER, 1967, DOUG WAS SCHEDULED TO GO ON R&R TO HAWAII, AND MY BROTHER ASKED IF HE COULD TAKE HIS PLACE ON THE POSTAL HELICOPTER RUNS.

DOUG RAN IT BY THE COMMANDING OFFICER, AND EVERY BONE SIGNED OFF -- EVERYONE SIGNED OFF, DOUG WENT OFF TO HAWAII, AND WHEN HE CAME BACK, MY BROTHER WAS DEAD.

HE TOLD ME HE STAYED IN THE SERVICE FOR 20 YEARS AFTER THE VIETNAM WAR ENDED, AND HE WORKS ALL OVER THE COUNTRY AND MET ALL SORTS OF PEOPLE AND COULD NOT REMEMBER ONE OF THEM, BUT HE SAID, "I WILL ALWAYS MEMORY YOUR BROTHER."

HE EVEN REMEMBERED MY BROTHER’S, OCTOBER 24.

WHEN HE SAID THAT, I HAD TO PULL MY CAR OVER AND DRY MY EYES.

I THANKED HIM FOR GETTING IN TOUCH WITH ME AND ASKED HIM IF WE COULD STAY IN TOUCH, AND HE SAID HE WOULD.

LIKE THAT AFTER THAT DAY, I NEVER SPOKE WITH DOUG AGAIN TO MY NEVER -- AGAIN.

EVERY CHRISTMAS, EVERY MEMORIAL STADIUM EVERY VETERANS DAY, AND EVERY OCTOBER 24, I GET AN EMAIL FROM HIM, AND I RESPOND TO HIM THE SAME WAY HE RESPONSE TO ME, IT IS A JOY GETTING IN TOUCH WITH YOU.

I COULD NOT KEEP THAT PROMISE TO MY DAD, BUT GETTING IN TOUCH WITH DOUG, MY BROTHER’S MEMORY LIVES ON BECAUSE OF DOUG AND HIS FAMILY.

FOR THAT, I WILL BE GRATEFUL.

CRYSTAL: YOU CAN CATCH MORE STORIES FROM THE STAGE HERE ON GBH OR ANY TIME FROM THE STORIES FROM THE STATE FACEBOOK PAGE AND CHANNEL.

YOU CAN CATCH LB G2 Q PLUS STORIES FROM THE STAGE NEXT MONTH.

FOR TICKETS AND MORE INFO, HEAD TO GBH.ORG/EVENTS.

COME BACK HERE TOMORROW.

WHILE THE NBA TOP RECRUITS ARE PULLING IN MULTIMILLION DOLLAR CONTRACTS, SUPERSTARS LIKE ANGEL RACE AND CAITLIN CLARK WILL BE MAKING AROUND $70,000 WITH THEY JOY THE WNBA.

WE ARE JOINED ON THAT AND THE MOST IMPORTANT NFL DRAFT FOR THE PATRIOTS IN DECADES.

THAT AND MORE TOMORROW AT 7:00.

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR WATCHING.

I’M CRYSTAL HAYNES.

GOOD NIGHT.

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